Great Weapon Fighter Sprint: Stamina cost reduced by roughly 40%.
It is possible to construct a perma-sprint build at the current state of the game. If this sort of thing is to be allowed, I suggest what many others have in making the spell mastery slot ignore CC resist/immunity, or give the option to place this attribute to one slotted encounter instead of limiting it to spell mastery. Even without perma-sprint, a GWF who is skilled at burst sprinting between encounters and at-wills is essentially uncontrollable. If this change is to go live, I seriously hope for a major boost to CW control or a reduction in the CC immunity of sprint to giving a CC resist percentage instead.
Block: Move speed while blocking now correctly sets you to 85% move speed (down from 100% move speed). This is an increase from the 50% move speed penalty applied by old block.
A GF can already build a substantial block meter on live, and with the changes they may now increase it further. They can now also run at normal speed while using block and it is literally impossible to stop their advance due to the CC immunity. Again, I seriously hope for a major boost to CW control or a reduction in the CC immunity of block to giving a CC resist percentage instead.
By adding abrupt changes like CC immunity to defense mechanics, I feel as though it adds a little too much cheese to the game and improves the survivability of these classes immensely.
Control Wizard: Teleport: Teleport can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
This may be the survivabilty tweak that CWs needed in PvE, but survivability in PvP was really the only issue for CWs apart from the Arp and CC deflect bugs. Shard damage was not over-performing in PvP, but has received a damage reduction (-33% and -60%) due to over-performance in PvE and like-wise with fanning the flame (-33%). Similarly, chill strike (-15%) and entangling force (-10%) are single target powers used more so in PvP and are not primary causes of CW damage over-performance in PvE. In the case of CS/EF, I do not see the logic in reducing the damage of these encounters, and for Shard/FTF I do not see the logic in having PvE balance take precedence over PvP balance, as opposed to devising a way to lessen damage in PvE without crippling PvP down to 1-3k -critical- hits.
For instance, in a previous post I suggested having shard damage calculate based on the number of targets hit. In PvE on live, a 100k hit to a mob will hit that amount to all targets which instead of hitting all for 100k, could be changed to be divisible based on the number of targets. This would establish the same overall damage for hits on groups or single targets (balance kept in PvP), but reduce the total damage done compared to the current result on live (PvE balance). Another way to scale this damage could be based on proximity to the explosion, since those closest receive the largest impact and effectively shield those behind them. Either way, I and many others hope to see a re-balance to Shard performance in PvP.
With the damage reductions to my encounters and the CC immunity added to other classes without a comparable boost to either CW control or survivabilty, 'I feel like I don’t have enough tools to stay alive under fire now and it makes [controlling] too hard.'
Tested SS Renegade - I'm able to solo control higher level epic groups most of the time. Live i would use Tabbed CoI icy terrain, steal time, shard.
Removed CoI from rotation as it didnt control nearly as well as a Feated Sudden storm
Steal time has replaced CoI on tab with Sudden storm, Icy terrain, and Shard.
Damage is much more reduced than on live, and I think this is what the Devs are looking for. In Pve it seems balanced except for the fact that many targets are cc immune and others have very high regen. Someone/some class will have to pick up the damage deficit.
If DC or GF is looking for more damage, I'd give it to them.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
With the damage reductions to my encounters and the CC immunity added to other classes without a comparable boost to either CW control or survivabilty, 'I feel like I don’t have enough tools to stay alive under fire now and it makes [controlling] too hard.'
I agree here. The nerfs are fine in PvE, and more interesting builds will arise out of it.
But currently, there's so much "on demand" CC immunity, coupled with very short duration CC in PvP that there's nothing in the toolbox for the CONTROL Wizard.
My suggestion: Give Control Wizards the unique ability to ignore CC Resistance, then tweak the duration of of powers versus other players from that. While no one is (or will be) afraid of a CW from a damage perspective, knowing that a clever CW could keep you locked down makes us a threat again in PvP.
I am on preview server right now and i am testing CW's and Warlock's power with a friend after the changes.
Don't delete this,i will post in the Warlock feedback thread but this needs to be posted here aswell.
Warlock encounter Harrowstorm prones the target for 4 SECONDS, 2 times more than a shardexplosion that is hard as hell to land.
You guys took all our dmg to give us control (that i still can't see to this day), and yet the new class that is supposed to be DPS have an encounter that's way more cc efficent that any of our spells. (plus is really hard to dodge since they have simply to curse the target to proc it, and the curse animation is so fast you simply can't prevent it from proning you)
The damage reduction on magic missile renders this spell to nothing but a way to stack arcane mastery. It's horrible, extremely horrible. I have no more single target damage. My usual toolkit is CoI in tab, icy terrain, shard and steal time. MM and chilling cloud but have been trying out storm pillar.
On live, I can easily solo marauding barbarians as a SS thaumaturge. On preview, I have tried all three trees. I've been playing renegade the most. I know that shard not working properly on preview counts to a small fraction of this, but using my normal toolkit, I can't even kill a single bear rider in the marauding barbarians encounter without feeling like I'm doing a 40 man raid on him. Not to mention coming close to dying many times or having my soulforge proc. MM is nothing but a tickle and was our hardest hitting at will without having to give up too much mobility. With mobile targets, we have nothing against them unless we slot for single target but it's not like we can just swap out skills on the fly without standing there doing nothing. Even then the encounter spell would be on cooldown.
I also feel like if I want to play SS, I am going to be cornered into oppressor. Our damage has been nerfed so hard that the only way to not get smashed like a bug solo in PvE is to just chain CC them until they die. I haven't played dungeon or group, but I have a feeling it will be the same. CW's are an aggro magnet. Part of it is control and part of it is able to kill the target(s) fast. Otherwise we will be overwhelmed regardless. Since we are loosing the damage part, we are being cornered into oppressor for chain control.
I am not a fan of MoF. I do not want to have to be forced to play that build either. On live, I love my CW. I went through 2 other toons, a TR and a DC to finally find a class that I really enjoy. I'm not about to jump on the SW bandwagon, but the nerfs are a discouragement for sure.
Also solo'ing a fresh IWD encounter and only coming out with 75 black ice kind of says something.
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited July 2014
Unfortunately I do not have the time at the moment to sift through this thread and give it the care it deserves...
But the Guardian Fighter discussions end here and now, please!
This thread is for feedback based on the changes to Control Wizard Powers and Feats that are on the Preview Shard only. Please keep the speculation, debates and wish lists in other threads.
Shard of endless avalanche should have it's own feat either giving it the extra prone time or the extra damage to give people a better choice of being pure control or pure damage :P It's always awesome when devs give players more ways of making their characters unique
Also I still don't quite get why there are so many nurfs to single target spells, when CWs get their overpowered damage from their AoE spells.... It's depressing to think that people think CWs actually use single target spells in dungeons when they can kill everything 2x faster then anyone else with AoEs... Single target is mostly for PvP matches and CW is already at the bottom in that resect. Look at your own leaderboard and you will see how f**ked CWs get in PvP In the top 10 pages (Thats 200 people!) there are about 6-7 CWs MAX. And those CWs are always the same ones, there are never any new CWs that have a high placement on the leaderboard. You know why? They suck in PvP, casting time + low damage resistance + shard getting nulled from ANY type of cc = disaster. The damage nurfs should only be on multi target spells, icy terrain ect because thats what really stacks all the damage in dungeons, not Chill Strike or Entangeling Force... derp
forget the CW for V4, dev only getback on some change because most CW were unable to even do the solo quest with the equip they are supposed to have for the quest. CW will only be able to be playable with over equipment. mean you will have to pay or find a group that will be ok to goes with you for solo quest. It's quite funny to think that renegade way will still remain a viable choice with the nerf only because thauma way is completly destroyed.
PVP content for CW was actually hard and with those change will be no way except with a 18k CW against a 10-12k player.
PVE dongeon/encounter well here Dev will be happy there will be no more interest nor malus to take CW.
PVE Solo, sure it will be interresting to do pve encounter that is label 15 min in 30 min with a complete over gs simply because your only way to play will be oppressor and you will do ridiculous aoe dammage and still won't be able to take any damage due to your poor survivability
On my view point i do not search to be the best player but who will play with a CW that have hard time in pve solo, that is dead meat in pvp and were only way to be is dongeon and yet here he won't even be necessary
Hey all, with the new patch having fixed Assailing Force (no really, for reals this time) I would like to see where Thaum and Renegades are falling. Remember that for pure DPS, Thaumaturges are going to be the tree you follow, for Hybrid DPS/CA generation you want Renegade.
Assailing Force (Assailant in the combat log) should make up a fairly substantive portion of your DPS so it would be awesome if we could get a few parses I can compare against my own.
Hey all, with the new patch having fixed Assailing Force (no really, for reals this time) I would like to see where Thaum and Renegades are falling. Remember that for pure DPS, Thaumaturges are going to be the tree you follow, for Hybrid DPS/CA generation you want Renegade.
Assailing Force (Assailant in the combat log) should make up a fairly substantive portion of your DPS so it would be awesome if we could get a few parses I can compare against my own.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Where do we stand controlwise? Any plans at all to improve our control? Would be nice to know what the status is in that matter so I know if I should start preparing for a new class or not (for pvp).
Where do we stand controlwise? Any plans at all to improve our control? Would be nice to know what the status is in that matter so I know if I should start preparing for a new class or not (for pvp).
The control provided by baseline powers will not change all that much. If you are in the opressor tree the capstone feat might get a buff to be more viable in PVP (up to 2ish second stun from 1 second, but that is contingent on some more internal testing).
If you are down one of the other trees you are forsaking some of those control bonuses to be the damage role.
That said I want to experiment with buffing Orb of Imposition (once I have all the hiccups worked out) so that slotting it feels much more competitive with damage options.
thanks gentleman crush, can you give more info about the assailling force, proc chance, dammage, if it only proc pure weapon damage or adding with the spell dammage (as a *5 dammage)etc.. because as far as i can see on the first info, the proc chance are not indicate and the dammage are both blocked by oponen HP and weapon dammage. if in pve except on low mob it should be block at around the weapon cap, in pvp mod, as player turn between 20 to 35 k pv most of the time it's at best 2 to 3.5k damage more and because control wizard are already the poor children in pvp that + the adding resist control that is given to other class i don't even see a decent way to build a correct CW for pvp whatever the tool i use
Remember that for pure DPS, Thaumaturges are going to be the tree you follow
-This is based off solo in game playing, strictly PvE, primarily in IWD. Unfortunately I don't have any combat logs/parses to contribute but are my opinions.
After getting frustrated last night with renegade and oppressor, I went back to thaumaturge. This still feels the most similar to live thaumaturge. It certainly requires some minor tweaks to feats, as arcane enhancement at 3% max feels entirely too low. Especially since MM got nerfed. While it may buff shard and steal time, 3% again is just too low for 3 points. Being a tiefling, I don't have the 3 extra points to toss around.
Eye of the storm has been taken out of my slots. 25 ICD still feels way too long, especially on trash or quest zones. It might and with a stretch, might be useable in epic dungeon bosses but that again depends on what run it is. Say something like PK where the final boss gets nuked in 30 seconds, well it's just as useless. In a long long fight, it might be a stretch of a possibility. Otherwise I am using evocation and storm spell.
Assailing Force feels entirely lack luster. Being tied to a single target, encounter and only max 500% weapon damage.
First the single target portion. Well this is great if you are concentrating on a boss, but if you're kiting or killing trash, or just doing dailies, most likely that target that proc assailant is going to be dead or close to it before you get another encounter off. Such as just standing in my icy terrain.
Second, being tied to an encounter, it's only useful when you have an encounter to use. There are times when my encounters lapse in cooldown and the assailant proc gets wasted.
Third, 500% weapon damage cap is not a lot of damage and is very gear dependent. Now since I don't have logs, I don't know for sure if it ueses max damage or if it procs between weapon damage range. For example I am using the Elk Tribe Elder's Orb, 677-827 damage, so at max damage, if my math is correct, it would only do 4,135 and I am not sure if there is a possibility for a crit. Then you have to factor in that the target is still alive and it gets hit by an encounter.
All around, assailing force feels very wishy washy to me. It's a gamble. It's not guaranteed damage at all.
On a side note, I do have to say that I am glad the devs are reading our feedback and tweaking around it. At least in PvE..
Hey all, with the new patch having fixed Assailing Force (no really, for reals this time) I would like to see where Thaum and Renegades are falling. Remember that for pure DPS, Thaumaturges are going to be the tree you follow, for Hybrid DPS/CA generation you want Renegade.
Assailing Force (Assailant in the combat log) should make up a fairly substantive portion of your DPS so it would be awesome if we could get a few parses I can compare against my own.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
The problem with Assailant is that it does flat damage. It may do a substantive portion of your DPS when you are a fresh level 60 with a mediocre build, low power and a gear score of 8k. But as players increase their power and tweak their feats the percentage of damage they get from their spells goes way up and the percentage of damage they get from Assailant becomes less and less and less until it is useless.
Here is a parse of me running around Icewind Dale killing stuff and doing a few lesser heroic encounters.
Assailant is working and it proced 27 times (the picture shows 80, but most of those are the triggers and no-damage logs). But it still did pitiful, pitiful damage - 1.9% of my total. Creeping Frost and Warped Magics are similarly useless - stuff dies before before the damage over time effect can do anything meaningful.
As long as these feats are flat damage and do not scale with the character they will continue to be useless.
thanks abaddon, it asnwer most of my questions and confirm the inutility of this power, low proc chance, low dammage bonus and random target when used with aoe spell + only 10 second chance to target with a encounter spell. better get +1 int bonus from main tree it give better bonus power and apply all time and in all spell
The problem with Assailant is that it does flat damage. It may do a substantive portion of your DPS when you are a fresh level 60 with a mediocre build, low power and a gear score of 8k. But as players increase their power and tweak their feats the percentage of damage they get from their spells goes way up and the percentage of damage they get from Assailant becomes less and less and less until it is useless.
This. Wanted to convey this thought in my last post also.
Wizard's wrath does not increase the damage of Chilling Cloud or Storm Pillar. The tooltip damage of Chilling Cloud does change on the powers tab, but it does not change in the slotted space and the damage on test dummies does the original damage.
I did confirm that Wizard's Wrath works correctly with all other AoE powers (tabbed Chill Strike, Ice Storm, Conduit of Ice, Arcane Singularity, Oppressive Force, tabbed Repel, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, Steal Time, Shard of the Endless Avalanche). However, the tooltips of Arcane Singularity, Oppressive Force, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, and Shard of the Endless Avalanche do not show the increase in damage.
Hey all, we are making quite a few changes to better facilitate control gameplay without giving too much control to damage dealing wizards. Players will now have to make a conscious choice on their class features and Orb of Imposition will now be much more competitive. In addition many feats will now scale with your damage bonuses so as you gear up they remain a competitive part of your damage output.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Arcane damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat can now trigger on any outgoing damage (instead of only on Encounter powers).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now deals 15% of a target's HP or 800% of your weapon damage, whichever is less (up from 10% and 500% respectively).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now properly unresistable.
Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now benefit from your damage bonuses. They are classified as Arcane and Cold damage respectively for the purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now tick every 2 seconds (down from every 3 seconds) and last 12 seconds (down from 18 seconds).
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Cold damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: This feat now stuns players for 2.5 seconds base (up from 1 second).
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: This class feature now works as expected and increases control durations by 25%.
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: Ranking this class feature up now grants 25% longer control durations.
Good changes. But I still think the problem is the resistance of control on almost all classes. The duration wont do us much if it keeps getting resisted in the first place.
Maybe change tenacity for CWs somehow? Or add some control bonus to the Orb of Imposition.
Hey all, we are making quite a few changes to better facilitate control gameplay without giving too much control to damage dealing wizards. Players will now have to make a conscious choice on their class features and Orb of Imposition will now be much more competitive. In addition many feats will now scale with your damage bonuses so as you gear up they remain a competitive part of your damage output.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Arcane damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat can now trigger on any outgoing damage (instead of only on Encounter powers).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now deals 15% of a target's HP or 800% of your weapon damage, whichever is less (up from 10% and 500% respectively).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now properly unresistable.
Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now benefit from your damage bonuses. They are classified as Arcane and Cold damage respectively for the purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now tick every 2 seconds (down from every 3 seconds) and last 12 seconds (down from 18 seconds).
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Cold damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: This feat now stuns players for 2.5 seconds base (up from 1 second).
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: This class feature now works as expected and increases control durations by 25%.
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: Ranking this class feature up now grants 25% longer control durations.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Pretty big changes. Thanks for being so responsive. I'll have to hit the preview shard again when I have time.
Hey all, we are making quite a few changes to better facilitate control gameplay without giving too much control to damage dealing wizards. Players will now have to make a conscious choice on their class features and Orb of Imposition will now be much more competitive. In addition many feats will now scale with your damage bonuses so as you gear up they remain a competitive part of your damage output.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Arcane damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat can now trigger on any outgoing damage (instead of only on Encounter powers).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now deals 15% of a target's HP or 800% of your weapon damage, whichever is less (up from 10% and 500% respectively).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now properly unresistable.
Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now benefit from your damage bonuses. They are classified as Arcane and Cold damage respectively for the purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now tick every 2 seconds (down from every 3 seconds) and last 12 seconds (down from 18 seconds).
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Cold damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: This feat now stuns players for 2.5 seconds base (up from 1 second).
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: This class feature now works as expected and increases control durations by 25%.
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: Ranking this class feature up now grants 25% longer control durations.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
1 assailling force: i don't get it. in one line you say it will be caped by or 15% hp or 800% weapon damage, in other you say that damage bonus will be added, does it mean limit damage will be caped bonus*damage bonus or still remain caped first. In the second case it won't change a thing with what said earlier as most of the case you will ended to always blocked by one or an other.
orb of imposition: you can give 500% bonus time control, it will only make cry other CW and eventually healer. TR are invisibile so unable to target them, GF can block control with mantel, GWF have now both sprint and unresitable as CC immun+ can escape from eventual control by launching unresisteable, HR still have invisble, 6 dodge + as i said earlier a way to regen higher than the damage capability of CW.
i'll be honest, if you think of the problem only as a value matter. PVP part is most of fight a ratio damage done/damage taken on that CW have so poor def value vs the 5 other class that it's making it's damage pretty laughable. let take for example a CW with 10k attack damage and 30% resist damage vs a 5k damage GF with 80% resist damage. they both have 10% ignore resist. 1 the GF can control CW while blocking CW control with mantel. CW will do 10k*0.3 so 3k damage to GF while gf will do 5*0.9 so 4.5k damage to CW. you can replace GF by gwf and lower resist (60-70%)while upping damage while controle remain same. you get same result. and for HR TR their def is based on high chance of deflect + invis / dogde power
ha also forgot even the way to get some HP in fight from the renegade tree is useless in pvp as it require to use aoe spell and to touch at least 2 player at same time. again regen way is way beyond what you can find in other class
When will we be able to begin trying this stuff out? Thursday?
Lol , don't quote that , it was a joke , not serious
Likely this week.
As far as Assailing Force goes when you target someone with it, it checks their HP against the 800% cap and determines which clamp to use. Then it applies your damage bonuses after that. This means as you get stronger it will start doing higher and higher % of target HP.
thank for the reply gentleman crush and sorry if my answer looked a little bit agressive,
i know my way to play CW and i understand where you want to goes and i know that result will become that i will stop my CW and maybe the game if i'm unable to find a character that i can have fun with. i already lost 1/3 of my small guild due to the v3, 50% more due to the anounce of change on CW/gwf. i have low time at same time to spend on the game (most of time 1h-1h30 when kid are sleeping) so i often canno't do neither dongeon with random group nor gauntlim that require 1h30. so only left for me solo and some pvp battle and on the solo will become hard due to the change and pvp won't be playable anymore
I'm a 15k (9k/6k)CW that just got owned by a 10k SW (6k/4k) on Preview. I went through 1 full rotation and could have killed him if I used at will.
He went through full rotation and Killed me, no at wills ...
Yeah, this isn't looking good for PvP CW at all...
Chilling cloud will stack chill to 6 but will not freeze target, is there a reason?
Furious Immolation still does not daze targets when feated.
I just tested it here and it definitely does. Are you 100% sure? Are the targets you are hitting getting knocked into the air? I cannot reproduce this issue.
Hey all, we are making quite a few changes to better facilitate control gameplay without giving too much control to damage dealing wizards. Players will now have to make a conscious choice on their class features and Orb of Imposition will now be much more competitive. In addition many feats will now scale with your damage bonuses so as you gear up they remain a competitive part of your damage output.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Arcane damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat can now trigger on any outgoing damage (instead of only on Encounter powers).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now deals 15% of a target's HP or 800% of your weapon damage, whichever is less (up from 10% and 500% respectively).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now properly unresistable.
Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now benefit from your damage bonuses. They are classified as Arcane and Cold damage respectively for the purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now tick every 2 seconds (down from every 3 seconds) and last 12 seconds (down from 18 seconds).
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Cold damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: This feat now stuns players for 2.5 seconds base (up from 1 second).
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: This class feature now works as expected and increases control durations by 25%.
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: Ranking this class feature up now grants 25% longer control durations.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Thanks for the fix and change to Orb of Imposition. It will be useful in PvE. Yet, those cc immunity "melees" in PvP still neglect this class feature completely.
As controllers who also put efforts in crowd control, it would make sense that we being able to penetrate opponents' cc immunity at a certain degree.
Good changes. But I still think the problem is the resistance of control on almost all classes. The duration wont do us much if it keeps getting resisted in the first place.
Maybe change tenacity for CWs somehow? Or add some control bonus to the Orb of Imposition.
Yes, I have the same feeling. Increasing control duration is good. Just that doesn't help much when opponents have too much immune to control.
Our single target is too low. They could make a small chance on heroic where both single target and ae were on same 3rd tier. Players would be able to choose to excel at single target/boss damage, or go ae trash clearing.
Single should be 3,6,9
Ae should be 1,2,3,4,5
Should also do same with arcane/cold on t2 heroic feat tree.
Cold 2,4,6
Arcane 2,4,6
Comments
Edit: Seriously?
It is possible to construct a perma-sprint build at the current state of the game. If this sort of thing is to be allowed, I suggest what many others have in making the spell mastery slot ignore CC resist/immunity, or give the option to place this attribute to one slotted encounter instead of limiting it to spell mastery. Even without perma-sprint, a GWF who is skilled at burst sprinting between encounters and at-wills is essentially uncontrollable. If this change is to go live, I seriously hope for a major boost to CW control or a reduction in the CC immunity of sprint to giving a CC resist percentage instead.
Edit:
GF Perma-Block Test
A GF can already build a substantial block meter on live, and with the changes they may now increase it further. They can now also run at normal speed while using block and it is literally impossible to stop their advance due to the CC immunity. Again, I seriously hope for a major boost to CW control or a reduction in the CC immunity of block to giving a CC resist percentage instead.
By adding abrupt changes like CC immunity to defense mechanics, I feel as though it adds a little too much cheese to the game and improves the survivability of these classes immensely.
This may be the survivabilty tweak that CWs needed in PvE, but survivability in PvP was really the only issue for CWs apart from the Arp and CC deflect bugs. Shard damage was not over-performing in PvP, but has received a damage reduction (-33% and -60%) due to over-performance in PvE and like-wise with fanning the flame (-33%). Similarly, chill strike (-15%) and entangling force (-10%) are single target powers used more so in PvP and are not primary causes of CW damage over-performance in PvE. In the case of CS/EF, I do not see the logic in reducing the damage of these encounters, and for Shard/FTF I do not see the logic in having PvE balance take precedence over PvP balance, as opposed to devising a way to lessen damage in PvE without crippling PvP down to 1-3k -critical- hits.
For instance, in a previous post I suggested having shard damage calculate based on the number of targets hit. In PvE on live, a 100k hit to a mob will hit that amount to all targets which instead of hitting all for 100k, could be changed to be divisible based on the number of targets. This would establish the same overall damage for hits on groups or single targets (balance kept in PvP), but reduce the total damage done compared to the current result on live (PvE balance). Another way to scale this damage could be based on proximity to the explosion, since those closest receive the largest impact and effectively shield those behind them. Either way, I and many others hope to see a re-balance to Shard performance in PvP.
With the damage reductions to my encounters and the CC immunity added to other classes without a comparable boost to either CW control or survivabilty, 'I feel like I don’t have enough tools to stay alive under fire now and it makes [controlling] too hard.'
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#BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay
Removed CoI from rotation as it didnt control nearly as well as a Feated Sudden storm
Steal time has replaced CoI on tab with Sudden storm, Icy terrain, and Shard.
Damage is much more reduced than on live, and I think this is what the Devs are looking for. In Pve it seems balanced except for the fact that many targets are cc immune and others have very high regen. Someone/some class will have to pick up the damage deficit.
If DC or GF is looking for more damage, I'd give it to them.
I agree here. The nerfs are fine in PvE, and more interesting builds will arise out of it.
But currently, there's so much "on demand" CC immunity, coupled with very short duration CC in PvP that there's nothing in the toolbox for the CONTROL Wizard.
My suggestion: Give Control Wizards the unique ability to ignore CC Resistance, then tweak the duration of of powers versus other players from that. While no one is (or will be) afraid of a CW from a damage perspective, knowing that a clever CW could keep you locked down makes us a threat again in PvP.
Don't delete this,i will post in the Warlock feedback thread but this needs to be posted here aswell.
Warlock encounter Harrowstorm prones the target for 4 SECONDS, 2 times more than a shardexplosion that is hard as hell to land.
You guys took all our dmg to give us control (that i still can't see to this day), and yet the new class that is supposed to be DPS have an encounter that's way more cc efficent that any of our spells. (plus is really hard to dodge since they have simply to curse the target to proc it, and the curse animation is so fast you simply can't prevent it from proning you)
Ps: they can prone you even if they're CC'ed.
On live, I can easily solo marauding barbarians as a SS thaumaturge. On preview, I have tried all three trees. I've been playing renegade the most. I know that shard not working properly on preview counts to a small fraction of this, but using my normal toolkit, I can't even kill a single bear rider in the marauding barbarians encounter without feeling like I'm doing a 40 man raid on him. Not to mention coming close to dying many times or having my soulforge proc. MM is nothing but a tickle and was our hardest hitting at will without having to give up too much mobility. With mobile targets, we have nothing against them unless we slot for single target but it's not like we can just swap out skills on the fly without standing there doing nothing. Even then the encounter spell would be on cooldown.
I also feel like if I want to play SS, I am going to be cornered into oppressor. Our damage has been nerfed so hard that the only way to not get smashed like a bug solo in PvE is to just chain CC them until they die. I haven't played dungeon or group, but I have a feeling it will be the same. CW's are an aggro magnet. Part of it is control and part of it is able to kill the target(s) fast. Otherwise we will be overwhelmed regardless. Since we are loosing the damage part, we are being cornered into oppressor for chain control.
I am not a fan of MoF. I do not want to have to be forced to play that build either. On live, I love my CW. I went through 2 other toons, a TR and a DC to finally find a class that I really enjoy. I'm not about to jump on the SW bandwagon, but the nerfs are a discouragement for sure.
Also solo'ing a fresh IWD encounter and only coming out with 75 black ice kind of says something.
But the Guardian Fighter discussions end here and now, please!
This thread is for feedback based on the changes to Control Wizard Powers and Feats that are on the Preview Shard only. Please keep the speculation, debates and wish lists in other threads.
Also I still don't quite get why there are so many nurfs to single target spells, when CWs get their overpowered damage from their AoE spells.... It's depressing to think that people think CWs actually use single target spells in dungeons when they can kill everything 2x faster then anyone else with AoEs... Single target is mostly for PvP matches and CW is already at the bottom in that resect. Look at your own leaderboard and you will see how f**ked CWs get in PvP In the top 10 pages (Thats 200 people!) there are about 6-7 CWs MAX. And those CWs are always the same ones, there are never any new CWs that have a high placement on the leaderboard. You know why? They suck in PvP, casting time + low damage resistance + shard getting nulled from ANY type of cc = disaster. The damage nurfs should only be on multi target spells, icy terrain ect because thats what really stacks all the damage in dungeons, not Chill Strike or Entangeling Force... derp
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
PVP content for CW was actually hard and with those change will be no way except with a 18k CW against a 10-12k player.
PVE dongeon/encounter well here Dev will be happy there will be no more interest nor malus to take CW.
PVE Solo, sure it will be interresting to do pve encounter that is label 15 min in 30 min with a complete over gs simply because your only way to play will be oppressor and you will do ridiculous aoe dammage and still won't be able to take any damage due to your poor survivability
On my view point i do not search to be the best player but who will play with a CW that have hard time in pve solo, that is dead meat in pvp and were only way to be is dongeon and yet here he won't even be necessary
Assailing Force (Assailant in the combat log) should make up a fairly substantive portion of your DPS so it would be awesome if we could get a few parses I can compare against my own.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Where do we stand controlwise? Any plans at all to improve our control? Would be nice to know what the status is in that matter so I know if I should start preparing for a new class or not (for pvp).
The control provided by baseline powers will not change all that much. If you are in the opressor tree the capstone feat might get a buff to be more viable in PVP (up to 2ish second stun from 1 second, but that is contingent on some more internal testing).
If you are down one of the other trees you are forsaking some of those control bonuses to be the damage role.
That said I want to experiment with buffing Orb of Imposition (once I have all the hiccups worked out) so that slotting it feels much more competitive with damage options.
regards
-This is based off solo in game playing, strictly PvE, primarily in IWD. Unfortunately I don't have any combat logs/parses to contribute but are my opinions.
After getting frustrated last night with renegade and oppressor, I went back to thaumaturge. This still feels the most similar to live thaumaturge. It certainly requires some minor tweaks to feats, as arcane enhancement at 3% max feels entirely too low. Especially since MM got nerfed. While it may buff shard and steal time, 3% again is just too low for 3 points. Being a tiefling, I don't have the 3 extra points to toss around.
Eye of the storm has been taken out of my slots. 25 ICD still feels way too long, especially on trash or quest zones. It might and with a stretch, might be useable in epic dungeon bosses but that again depends on what run it is. Say something like PK where the final boss gets nuked in 30 seconds, well it's just as useless. In a long long fight, it might be a stretch of a possibility. Otherwise I am using evocation and storm spell.
Assailing Force feels entirely lack luster. Being tied to a single target, encounter and only max 500% weapon damage.
First the single target portion. Well this is great if you are concentrating on a boss, but if you're kiting or killing trash, or just doing dailies, most likely that target that proc assailant is going to be dead or close to it before you get another encounter off. Such as just standing in my icy terrain.
Second, being tied to an encounter, it's only useful when you have an encounter to use. There are times when my encounters lapse in cooldown and the assailant proc gets wasted.
Third, 500% weapon damage cap is not a lot of damage and is very gear dependent. Now since I don't have logs, I don't know for sure if it ueses max damage or if it procs between weapon damage range. For example I am using the Elk Tribe Elder's Orb, 677-827 damage, so at max damage, if my math is correct, it would only do 4,135 and I am not sure if there is a possibility for a crit. Then you have to factor in that the target is still alive and it gets hit by an encounter.
All around, assailing force feels very wishy washy to me. It's a gamble. It's not guaranteed damage at all.
On a side note, I do have to say that I am glad the devs are reading our feedback and tweaking around it. At least in PvE..
The problem with Assailant is that it does flat damage. It may do a substantive portion of your DPS when you are a fresh level 60 with a mediocre build, low power and a gear score of 8k. But as players increase their power and tweak their feats the percentage of damage they get from their spells goes way up and the percentage of damage they get from Assailant becomes less and less and less until it is useless.
Here is a parse of me running around Icewind Dale killing stuff and doing a few lesser heroic encounters.
Assailant is working and it proced 27 times (the picture shows 80, but most of those are the triggers and no-damage logs). But it still did pitiful, pitiful damage - 1.9% of my total. Creeping Frost and Warped Magics are similarly useless - stuff dies before before the damage over time effect can do anything meaningful.
As long as these feats are flat damage and do not scale with the character they will continue to be useless.
This. Wanted to convey this thought in my last post also.
Wizard's wrath does not increase the damage of Chilling Cloud or Storm Pillar. The tooltip damage of Chilling Cloud does change on the powers tab, but it does not change in the slotted space and the damage on test dummies does the original damage.
I did confirm that Wizard's Wrath works correctly with all other AoE powers (tabbed Chill Strike, Ice Storm, Conduit of Ice, Arcane Singularity, Oppressive Force, tabbed Repel, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, Steal Time, Shard of the Endless Avalanche). However, the tooltips of Arcane Singularity, Oppressive Force, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, and Shard of the Endless Avalanche do not show the increase in damage.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Arcane damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat can now trigger on any outgoing damage (instead of only on Encounter powers).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now deals 15% of a target's HP or 800% of your weapon damage, whichever is less (up from 10% and 500% respectively).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now properly unresistable.
Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now benefit from your damage bonuses. They are classified as Arcane and Cold damage respectively for the purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now tick every 2 seconds (down from every 3 seconds) and last 12 seconds (down from 18 seconds).
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Cold damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: This feat now stuns players for 2.5 seconds base (up from 1 second).
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: This class feature now works as expected and increases control durations by 25%.
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: Ranking this class feature up now grants 25% longer control durations.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Maybe change tenacity for CWs somehow? Or add some control bonus to the Orb of Imposition.
Pretty big changes. Thanks for being so responsive. I'll have to hit the preview shard again when I have time.
1 assailling force: i don't get it. in one line you say it will be caped by or 15% hp or 800% weapon damage, in other you say that damage bonus will be added, does it mean limit damage will be caped bonus*damage bonus or still remain caped first. In the second case it won't change a thing with what said earlier as most of the case you will ended to always blocked by one or an other.
orb of imposition: you can give 500% bonus time control, it will only make cry other CW and eventually healer. TR are invisibile so unable to target them, GF can block control with mantel, GWF have now both sprint and unresitable as CC immun+ can escape from eventual control by launching unresisteable, HR still have invisble, 6 dodge + as i said earlier a way to regen higher than the damage capability of CW.
i'll be honest, if you think of the problem only as a value matter. PVP part is most of fight a ratio damage done/damage taken on that CW have so poor def value vs the 5 other class that it's making it's damage pretty laughable. let take for example a CW with 10k attack damage and 30% resist damage vs a 5k damage GF with 80% resist damage. they both have 10% ignore resist. 1 the GF can control CW while blocking CW control with mantel. CW will do 10k*0.3 so 3k damage to GF while gf will do 5*0.9 so 4.5k damage to CW. you can replace GF by gwf and lower resist (60-70%)while upping damage while controle remain same. you get same result. and for HR TR their def is based on high chance of deflect + invis / dogde power
ha also forgot even the way to get some HP in fight from the renegade tree is useless in pvp as it require to use aoe spell and to touch at least 2 player at same time. again regen way is way beyond what you can find in other class
Likely this week.
As far as Assailing Force goes when you target someone with it, it checks their HP against the 800% cap and determines which clamp to use. Then it applies your damage bonuses after that. This means as you get stronger it will start doing higher and higher % of target HP.
i know my way to play CW and i understand where you want to goes and i know that result will become that i will stop my CW and maybe the game if i'm unable to find a character that i can have fun with. i already lost 1/3 of my small guild due to the v3, 50% more due to the anounce of change on CW/gwf. i have low time at same time to spend on the game (most of time 1h-1h30 when kid are sleeping) so i often canno't do neither dongeon with random group nor gauntlim that require 1h30. so only left for me solo and some pvp battle and on the solo will become hard due to the change and pvp won't be playable anymore
Furious Immolation still does not daze targets when feated.
He went through full rotation and Killed me, no at wills ...
Yeah, this isn't looking good for PvP CW at all...
I just tested it here and it definitely does. Are you 100% sure? Are the targets you are hitting getting knocked into the air? I cannot reproduce this issue.
As controllers who also put efforts in crowd control, it would make sense that we being able to penetrate opponents' cc immunity at a certain degree.
Single should be 3,6,9
Ae should be 1,2,3,4,5
Should also do same with arcane/cold on t2 heroic feat tree.
Cold 2,4,6
Arcane 2,4,6