Official - Combat Changes - Bigger Discussion/ No Delete Thread

noworries · December 2020

While the other threads are meant to stay lean so that the feedback can be easily seen/heard. This thread is for posting thoughts/concerns/complaints/etc. that you don't want to be deleted. Posts in this thread will only be removed if they break the standard forum guidelines.

Please use this thread for bigger/longer posts or posts that aren't direct feedback for one of the specific topics.

eladonwarps · December 2020

What I saw today was a huge nerf. On live, I was nowhere near the top before, but I could survive most adventure zones, was completed or nearly completed with most campaigns, and building up my roster of companions and mounts. I was a solid healer, and with an average group I could keep us all alive in Epic Dungeons and Trials. I didn't have max Bondings or bolster, but a decent 27000 IL Cleric got through most of the game as designed.

On Preview, a completely different character. Sure, my TIL looks bigger, but I hit for less, I heal for less, I get killed faster, and in my DPS loadout for soloing stuff all takes 5 times longer. Some things in areas that used to be hard but doable, like Avernus, now 1 shot me. It doesn't seem to matter what companion I use at the moment, they all do very little except slightly bump my stat cap, which is still too low and I keep going over.

Unless the companions are so badly broken that this will change drastically before live, I won't stay. Maybe take a hint from your Roommates on the STO side and see how they handle class balance and content scaling, especially difficulty settings. They're still doing well. I'll be going back over there for sure.

arazith07 · December 2020

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

arazith07 said:
In my opinion, change was needed.
Well, that's the main problem. The change was not needed, at least not in this direction. What's the point of stuff like CDP? What's the point of the forum? What's the point of communication? What's the point of anything like that if players are basically neglected and changes implemented so that newbies don't wonder what's the point of a stat like Item Level/Gear Score.

These changes should be talked, over and over again, and not just forced without any consideration. Developers do not play this game as much as players do, that's a fact. And developers would do just fine if instead they start listening instead of constantly pushing the changes that make no sense.

The changes with the overall system already happened with M16, and this right now is YET AGAIN a pretty huge change that is efficiently making people to YET AGAIN go all over the M16 rebalancing. And for M16 head came to apologize publicly on the forums. So, an obvious mistake was made, a lot of people left the game, and now we're repeating the same mistake over again for no reason? I mean, c'mon!

I'd like to hear your reasoning behind why changes were needed, because this is basically further crippling the already broken system. I don't think you can find a single solitary reason for the upcoming changes and why they are important.

"More diverse gameplay" - doesn't exist, you will have to go for one stat and stick with that stat just to deal 10% of damage you used to deal back when you had all stats capped properly.

Let's point to some facts:

- We are effectively weaker in all sense. Your statement that we're same as before is just untrue, factually untrue.
- We have to grind a lot more to get to the point where we can be as 10% as effective as we were prior to this. We're talking 5 Companions @ mythic level, or 5x 3750 Companion Tokens, or 25x1.500.000AD. And even at that you won't feel any stronger since you are nerfed to the ground in the start.
- Companions are all nerfed. Augment & Combat. Extremely nerfed, in fact.
- All enchantments are nerfed. Severely. You can't really get all stats anymore, which puts us back 15+ mods at least. And I know you are rather vocal when arguing old content as in "That's obsolete". Well, you get an obsolete system yet again, the Crit Capping meta.
- Bonding Runestones, which were the cornerstone of the game even before M16, are gone. For no reason other than making people buy/invest more in whatever else wasn't meta.
- Changes right now are slapping M16 hard, making us to wonder why was M16 needed in that case and how are we going to recover from it? Or from this system to begin with? And after three mods, will we get yet another system overhaul?
- I don't remember these System Changes in any of the misleading "route to M20 roadmaps". Given how poorly M16 was done, you'd think that Cryptic did learn from their past mistake and actually will ease in the players with the new changes, but obviously no.
- Almost all pet powers have been nerfed, and some have been boosted even though our overall damage has been reduced, so you won't even feel it, really. It is just there to look good on the paper, but in action it's an overall nerf.
- I was able to hit for 1.5 mil dmg Disintegrate on Live today, and right now I hit for barely 300k on Preview. I leave you to math it out how much of a nerf that is. And, yes, that's with full Assassin's R15s, capped everything to about 70-80% via mythic companion powers. I could potentially hit more, but nowhere near the amount I used to deal.

You say to WAIT AND SEE, do you have any idea how much I've been doing that in the past half a decade? How much have others invested in this game in the past year? And all of that just to go into thin air?
There's nothing anymore to see here, really, and defending this to any extent is insincere and awful.
I just can't believe that there is a person defending these abrupt & tremendous changes to the system, which are only useful to the company itself rather than the playerbase.
People were finally settling in and getting their builds to something reasonable, and then all of that nerfed. We all know it's all about $$$ behind the changes, so let's not pretend that there is something constructive or beneficial to the players behind all of this.

Did anyone ask for this? Yeah, I remember people stating "We don't want Armor penetration and we'd like to see Critical Severity as a separate stat". I also remember when people were saying "Recovery is useless, we want it gone, and please increase our encounter cooldowns by 5.000%, thanks".

Good convo.

So, no, I disagree with you. Having an opinion is one thing, but what you're doing is basically defending this model of business in the game which damages its playerbase for the sake of extra $$$ and doesn't even fix bugs and broken things to begin with. We just move to more broken things without ever looking back. An entire year passed without a single update to Wizard, and with the recent changes it just tells me that it's a time to leave the game yet again because these guys never learn.

Bring the convo over so we aren't taking away from the feedback thread.

I am not defending anything. I am saying that people are making up opinions too fast and often times using false data. STOP putting words in my mouth or making me out to something I am not. I have yet to give my actual opinion of if I like the changes or not. I am testing it, getting used to it, giving this the good old try before forming an opinion.

Now as for your list of facts.
-How are we weaker than before? Yes the numbers are smaller, but so are the HP pools. The killing time is about the same from what I have seen. Mobs can still be one shot in Avernus, including the Pit fiends.
-The second I hopped onto live, power was capped, most other stats were at 50%. Where is the nerf? What is needed to get back to where I was before...from my experience nothing was lost. Again smaller numbers yes, but same results as the live server. When you do spend those AD and tokens, you should end up stronger by that logic.
-Yes we are no longer gaining as much stats from companions as we were before...but honestly, isn't that a good thing? Why should more than half our stats come from companions like they do on live? I do agree that the combat damage does need to be buffed, but hey, that's why it's in preview to give feedback on.
-Enchantments are doing two things to our stats atm, the Item level ratings is going up, adding to our TiL, meaning all enchantments and anything else that gives iL is giving us more damage and HP directly. Not to mention the CR adding to all the stats, and finally the +300 stat part is added. Not capping all stats actually adds more choice to the game which people have been asking for.
-They have stated the reason why bonding runestones were removed, you just choose to think there is no reason.
-This is not as big a rework as M16 was, this is just their tweaks to that system after hearing feedback from the players. There are several long forum threads with feedback in the CDP section, get involved there if you aren't liking the changes.
-I'm just as surprised as you with all the changes, but that doesn't mean you can't look back and see all the pieces either in the CDP threads or their stated goals. Keep in mind that most of these changes was to make scaling a better system.
-For all we know, this could be a bug. Report it like devs have asked us to, or wait for confirmation on if it is intended or not, this is preview after all.
- Did you bother to see if the mobs have had a similar reduction to HP? A number without reference means nothing. If they half the damage but cut monster health by 1/4th, there are people who would call that a nerf when in actuality it is a buff. Stats will have to move around since you are not built for the new system, that is bound to happen. Did you even have the same buffs/debuffs up?

You really can't judge something at face value with as extensive of changes as we are seeing. You really have to dive in and look at all the numbers.

Keep in mind that I have yet to actually form an opinion on this system, I am not defending it. All I am saying is that it is too early to tell what the overall effect it. But from what I have read so far, it seems you are not understanding the changes, or are too biased from being a victim in your eyes. I'm not saying to "wait and see", I saying to dive in and see what fits. Try it out before passing judgement. Spend time with it to gain a better understanding.

M16 was largely disliked and apologized for because of the harsh scaling, not the stat reworks. People loathed the scaling so much. People understood why lifesteal and recovery were toxic for the game. It was the scaling that needed the attention. They did some patch work fixing here and there and this is the result they have come to. It's now our time to provide feedback and see if they will listen or not. So far, the scaling feedback is rather positive, there are some needed adjustments that have been pointed out and we've already gotten word that they are looking into fixing it.

liadan1984 · December 2020

Do these changes change the heal formula?

After a lot of speculation, the heal formula was finally confirmed some time back, and many of us who heal, and have been frustrated, but stuck through with the big changes that have happened since mod 16 (and then the heal changes with mod 19). I think I can speak for almost all of us, would like some clear advice as to how these hard caps/"Excess rating points have no effect".

armadeonx · December 2020

Please do go ahead with the Radiant Enchantment exchange - with HP now based on TIL and Power so easy to cap, Radiants will become redundant.

Secondly, has any thought been given to Stronghold offensive boons? With power becoming almost redundant and removing Armor Penetration, the most popular offensive SH Boons have become about as useful as the Healing Potions boost.

rikitaki · December 2020

@armadeonx add there empowered runestone. That stuff has no purpose now.
BTW: I tried hard to get rid of it, but my assassin has reached that +40% damage (on top of power) even without companions and technically anything dedicated to that aspect. Most of the companions I had in slots are now doing nothing - and I doubt we will get "companion" exchange.

The companion change for me means every companion I invested in is absolutely pointless now. Similar with gear - if you have one piece that gives you +5k power, you are already all set. If you have more than one, you do not need any other source of power. To sum it up, this change completely resets equipment, enchantment/runestones and companions. And most likely you will now use a different mount as well. There is no stone left unturned.

It is kinda dangerous move - it swiftly rids you of that feeling "but it took me so long to get here" (as all your investments suddenly mean nothing) and you stand in the perspective of a brand new player.

onethree13 · December 2020

@noworries#8859, I am interested in the question, what will happen to the Wizards and what will this update give? What will happen to the Thaumaturge's mechanic? Will only 1 build remain viable for the Arcanist? Will wizards finally be able to keep up with other dps classes or maybe will their control be more in demand now? For some reason, I still cannot log in the test server to look around myself, but I hope that at least one of the questions will be answered.

drago · December 2020

Realize it. They do not compensate everything. The main purpose of "improvements" are made to earn new $$$. Official stated as "make the game better".
If they truly would make the game better AND do what players want - ofcourse in this case they would compensate. Get over it.

@noworries#8859
In an interview you said you want look into paladin. I thought you want to buff the paladin, not gimp the paladin.

I do not see any reason to play a tank in this shape of the game. There is only low difference in Hitpoints. From what I have seen I could better off as a tank playing dreadnought or blademaster. Viable tanky DPS with much higher damage output. The tank still doing bad at damage compared to HDPS but there is only little difference in defence. To play a tank only for Aggro purposes, no thanks. I think it is better now to split the aggro and share damage within the group. Only reason to play a tank is Zariel/TOMM? And this is no fun at all. To play the meatball.

Tank from 40% HP Boost to 20% HP Boost is a nerf.
A Healer from 0% HP Boost to 10% HP Boost is a buff.

Will I be able to tank as Oathkeeper? Why not. Why is Aggro management seen as a hidden stat. It does not provide any fun, it only makes the enemy attacking me. The Oathkeeper would be the much better tank now. Nearly as tanky. But with huge heal.

Meta M20:
DPS - Damage
Heal - Heal
Tank - Aggro??????

What happens now if we skip aggro.

Meta M20:
DPS - Damage
Heal - Heal/Tank???????

or Meta M20:
1. Week: Everything normal, people watch changes.
2. Week: Need 5 minutes more waiting time for Random queues. Playerbase drop.
3. Week: Need another 5 minutes more waiting time for Random queues. Playerbase drop.
4. Week: Game is dead.

liadan1984 · December 2020

%damage equipment/pets/etc is going to be BIS.

Already looking at what %damage stuff I can get, even older equipment/lower IL equipment, because... well... the equipment that gives stacks of power or bonus power are next to useless (unless you're undercapped on power)

liadan1984 · December 2020

Healer role gains extra 10% damage

As a healer, I appreciate this gesture. But... do we really need this over tanks? and do we need the extra 10% Hit Points over DPS?

On live, DPS take agro before healers, I expect that this should be the same on preview (unless the agro formula has changed), DPS should be needing the extra HP for the rare cases when they take agro.

The majority of tanks I run with use Damage as a method of maintaining agro (along with the tanky agro abilities), I know that this isn't a common or popular method, but it is going to make it more difficult for paladins to level up or run content on their own.

Is there a reason why both Healer AND Tank can't get the extra 10% damage, and both Healer and DPS can't get the extra HP?

If you want to give healers something to compensate, then we wont say no to another 10% Outgoing Healing

burtr · December 2020

Just a things to point out...

- If it's not broken, don't fix it
- Been playing since Open Beta... I think I've played 4 or 5 different Neverwinter games since then with all the "changes" to combat/builds. If I were to take a couple of years away from WoW, STO, or any other mmo's before going back, I am fairly confident that I can just log in and start playing competitively with whatever I had before taking a hiatus. Why is it that here, in NW, it's the total opposite? Even without taking any long term breaks from this game, I constantly live in fear that the next day I log into my account, it is going to be a totally different game that I did not sign up for?
- The main reason that has driven away players in the past, in my opinion, is the constant major changes that basically wipes out a player's time and money spent to just be viable.
- Why not just expand and add new content like the Citadel event? There's no need to design a whole new game. If I wanted a new game, I would leave and go find a new game.

dazdranagon88 · December 2020

Hello. Given that the new combat system takes longer to complete dungeons and challenges, it would be nice to increase the chance of getting epic rewards from chests. Otherwise, even ordinary companions and horses will become rare, and their price will increase several times.

armadeonx · December 2020

I've seen a number of comments about tanks - especially pally tanks and I have to agree with a lot of them. I took a break for a couple of mods and only came back recently.

The new boon system and character overhaul was quite a shock - as was seeing that most pally tanks switched to the healer role. On mine, I was surprised by the new divinity mechanic as well as a drop in damage output due to changes to powers and recovery. The huge reduction in group-wide bonuses from Pally auras has also made them hardly worth it (2% add to crit chance? For DPS players who are already specced to max crit? aura of wrath dealing 10% of base weapon damage..?)

I've so far got my OP to 28k, with 130k power, full Arp and 90k crit but still have trouble holding aggro against high-powered dps players and usually score about 20% of the highest person on paingiver - I have no idea why a base 20% drop to Pally dps is even necessary in that case.

Maybe this new system will correct some of this? Dealing 20% less damage that the DPS players is fine with me but 80% less is pretty excessive (imo) so hopefully some testing has been done..? When solo random queueing on my pally tank I usually get the bonus now (for class-in-demand), which if most pallys are running heals now is not a surprise.

drago · December 2020

armadeonx said:
Maybe this new system will correct some of this? Dealing 20% less damage that the DPS players is fine with me but 80% less is pretty excessive (imo) so hopefully some testing has been done..? When solo random queueing on my pally tank I usually get the bonus now (for class-in-demand), which if most pallys are running heals now is not a surprise.

I am a really heavy hitting paladin. Maximizing like a DPS. I gone over this. It is a disaster. After every past change they destroyed something cause less damage. When Chicken got released we had a compensation. Now Chicken is destroyed and everything I did doing damage got destroyed aswell. There are 0 synergies left. Everything destroyed. All left is cap stats, cap offensive and then you are down with higher cooldowns and lower magnitudes. It's in easy words. Game Over. After the healing possibility got destroyed with nerf of Shield of Faith. It is only down to one future I was telling months before it will be a fault. Paper Rock Scissors. You will maximize now only defensive stats. Because your hitpoints is no big of a difference. If you want now anything useful as a tank. You maximize defensive stats, get aggro and get rid of any source of damage. Again. It is game over.
The young dev team will make experiences how to destroy a game.

melechest · December 2020

@noworries#8859

So, i spent 2 hours writing an "essay" on general discussion on many things related but not limited to the "combat rework" because i didnt see anywhere in there that said those posts will be removed. And it got removed.

How was i supposed to know that it would be removed?

What am i supposed to do now? Spend another 2 hours writing it again here? Or just suck it up and never say my opinion.

Its a bad move to only say here that you will be deleting posts all over the place. And now me and many others have spent time from our lives for nothing.

darthpotater · December 2020

All the %damage conditional items like Ebony Stained shirt (items that give %damage under certain conditions) are under the 90% cap of damage? or there are sources like this items that are out of that so you can get more than 90% in certain conditions?

noworries · December 2020

rikitaki said:
@armadeonx add there empowered runestone. That stuff has no purpose now.

Empowered Runestones give HP to both augment and fighting companions now and that HP transfers to your character 100%.

noworries · December 2020

melechest said:
@noworries#8859

So, i spent 2 hours writing an "essay" on general discussion on many things related but not limited to the "combat rework" because i didnt see anywhere in there that said those posts will be removed. And it got removed.

How was i supposed to know that it would be removed?

What am i supposed to do now? Spend another 2 hours writing it again here? Or just suck it up and never say my opinion.

Its a bad move to only say here that you will be deleting posts all over the place. And now me and many others have spent time from our lives for nothing.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1258811/official-combat-changes-preview-thread-overview

That thread mentioned the delete policy and was posted up with the initial threads.

It has been one day and you can see how off topic and long the stats thread is already with deletions. The only way we're going to be able to properly work with feedback on the different areas of the game is to keep those threads lean so everyone can see what points have been made and the feedback can be found to be acted on.

melechest · December 2020

@noworries#8859

This thread is on the Preview side of the forums. My thread was in General Discussion and i post it there for specific reasons. And the fact is, if no one come on this part of the boards, there is no way of him knowing that you will delete everything.

Either mention in every part of the board that you will delete them or dont delete them and communicate with the person so that it can be moved here.

You deleted my thread which i spent a lot of my time to write and a lot of time to test things. Same is probably the case with many others.

And i understand that you want to keep the boards clean, but this is messed up. Thats a bad move.

You want feedback. Here is my feedback: The way you handle threads related to those changes is bad and it makes people angrier.

Spent 2 hours for nothing. thanks.

noworries · December 2020

melechest said:
@noworries#8859

This thread is on the Preview side of the forums. My thread was in General Discussion and i post it there for specific reasons. And the fact is, if no one come on this part of the boards, there is no way of him knowing that you will delete everything.

Either mention in every part of the board that you will delete them or dont delete them and communicate with the person so that it can be moved here.

You deleted my thread which i spent a lot of my time to write and a lot of time to test things. Same is probably the case with many others.

And i understand that you want to keep the boards clean, but this is messed up. Thats a bad move.

You want feedback. Here is my feedback: The way you handle threads related to those changes is bad and it makes people angrier.

Spent 2 hours for nothing. thanks.

I thought you were referring to a post in one of these threads, which is where I've been personally deleting post that were off topic or not constructive. If you had a post you made deleted in some other area of the forums that is something different that I don't know about and doesn't relate to what this thread was calling out as a place for non-deletion posts.

Sorry for the confusion there.

rikitaki · December 2020

noworries#8859 said:

rikitaki said:
@armadeonx add there empowered runestone. That stuff has no purpose now.
Empowered Runestones give HP to both augment and fighting companions now and that HP transfers to your character 100%.

OK, sorry for the wrong terminology. That stuff has no purpose for the people that own them in large quantities atm. The same like with radiants and for example brutality insignias. It does something, sure - but not something desirable.

But don't take me wrong - this rework gives some footing for (probably) all kinds of enchants and runestones, just up till now it was all radiants and empowered and that is what people have - that is the problem. On preview I swapped what I had (r14 black ice + empowered) for r15 crit/accuracy, got myself 5 mythic companion bolster + comp acb and that made the gameplay in Avernus feel roughly the same as on live server atm. 3 bonding runestones trade-in would not compensate me enough even for making those mythic companions... If you suggest that tanks will soak up all the empowered runestones that tanks, healers and dps classes are about to release, I do not share your optimism.

anjinsto · December 2020

I will make it short and sweet, I am new to this game (several months in) and tried my best to catch up with the main crowd. Now that I am finally there and getting comfortable with the game, you announce this new mod. Coming from your sister game Star Trek Online where I run the largest group of Armadas there (Alliances equivalent in NW); the last time they pulled something like this they lost their biggest chunk of highly dedicated players and never recovered...Even hardcore Star trek fans. If you want the same to happen here, go ahead with this mod. From the 2 days I watched several steams of people testing their builds and barely even being able to clear a Minor Heroic in Avernus, this is not the gameplay I have come to love from this game. Simply put, you can do all the fine tuning you want, once this mod releases, most players I know will move on to another game. Good luck !

hustin1 · December 2020

Here are some of my thoughts after a very agitated sleepless night.

1. I like the Forte stat, a lot even, with one major exception: I don't want to be pigeonholed. I don't like it and neither do the pigeons. I want to be able to choose at least one of those three stats. I want my wizard to be able to run to Candlekeep, or the Arcane School of Mastery, or to some bedraggled Sensei sitting on a mountaintop and be able to specialize in whatever she wants. If she wants to learn to control enemies better than your average Thaumaturge that should be her choice. If my ranger wants to trek up to the Many-Arrows kingdom, learn their ways, and have them teach her how to absorb more damage, and if she can stand their cuisine and body odor, so be it. Specialization has always been an important aspect to roleplaying games in general and in D&D in particular. Stop trying to shove me into a particular pigeon hole. The pigeon is getting angry.

2. We should be allowed to maintain the percentage effectiveness of stats that we care about. I'm not asking to be able to cap all stats. I *am* saying that if we care about a particular stat we should be able to chase it. I can't chase Control Bonus. There are a limited number of items that grant it and I have all of them. Upgrading gear will inevitably degrade this percentage and there is no means to reverse the damage. If an item fails to upgrade a particular stat (and if this item doesn't have Combined Rating), it will cause any stats it fails to upgrade to lose effective percentage. I've detailed an example of the calculation on the Stats thread. Give me an enchantment, runestone, or piece of gear that I can wear that will let me maintain it. A stat that we cannot maintain has no reason to be made public.

3. It is not lost on me that *CC-build* wizards are getting an effective nerf. I point specifically to the change to Insignia of Mastery and to the Sphere of Black ice. I find it amusing that the stated maximum percentage for a stat is 90%, when the actual theoretical maximum for Control Bonus after these changes will be about 77%. This assumes using the Sphere of Black Ice, legendary Insignia of Mastery in all fifteen slots, the Valindra set, upgrading the INT stat every ten levels, a mythic Control Bonus collar, and all four Control Bonus boons. This is the sum total of all Control Bonus options in the entire game. At any rate, I've become convinced that CC builds are being slowly phased out. We are certainly not being treated like any other build and haven't for a long time. I point specifically to losing our paragon path and to having our base Control Bonus sliced in half when Mod 16 launched. I would like clarification from the devs on current and future plans for Control Wizards.

4. I like the boon changes. Honestly, it's a no-brainer. Their effective value would decrease over time if they were mere stat values as opposed to percentages, simply due to players' TIL increasing with upgrades. Conversely, because the same is not being done with respect to enchantments, runestones, and insignias, there *will* be a problem with all of those having less and less effective value as TIL increases with time. That is, unless you plan to make us upgrade them beyond their current maximums. I have seen this movie before so forgive me if I'm becoming cynical.

5. I'm glad you are getting rid of Bonding runestones. They should never have been created in the first place and I've been saying that to our alliance members for years. You probably suspect my thoughts on why they were given birth. Let us not make this mistake again, please. They caused great harm to the game.

6. I've destroyed more stacks of companion training treatises than I care to admit. Good riddance.

7. I'm still skeptical as to why these combat changes are necessary. It seems to me that the game today should be able to display the enemy ratings on the map. It has that information. It also seems to me that mousing over a destination circle on the regional map should be able to display the enemy ratings at that location. It should have that information as well. Given this, I see no technical reason why the client, as it exists today, couldn't calculate our effective percentages on the fly and display them in the UI. It knows the enemy ratings which should be all it needs. Even if there are portions of a map that has enemies with one set of ratings in one location and enemies with different ratings in another location, the client should be able to handle that based on where we are standing. It can already differentiate between different portions of the same map, e.g. PvP areas in Icewind Dale. There's no reason why it can't know about enemy ratings in part of a map just like it can know about things like PvP area, lighting, etc.

8. If enemies will no longer display their level, what indicators do we have regarding whether we can take a particular critter on? Will it turn yellow? Will it turn red? I recall in my EQ days something like, "Goblin glares at you threateningly. What do you wish your tombstone to say?" Today the color of the level number is our indicator. What will be our indicator going forward?

9. I don't like that we have to scroll our stat list up to see our hit points. HP is a critical stat. I understand that you're trying to get more real estate for the list but I think the solution isn't a good one.

arbitrarity · December 2020

Overall, I think this is an important and necessary change to make game balance and scaling more reasonable, and put players back on a footing where they aren't at all stat caps, but it's also clear that a lot of players feel uncertain about continuity of their character investments. For many end-game players, this translates to "this is a cash grab".

The gear meta will always change with significant stat reworks. I greatly appreciate that the total stats for dual and triple-stat enchantments are equal to single-stat enchantments, as it reduces much of my concern about market shifts around those items. Triple stat enchantments do seem to more heavily specialize you in offensive or defensive stats due to their lower combined rating, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing. I would rather have most enchantments be relatively interchangeable.

Obviously the heavy investment in Radiant enchantments, Brutality/Dominance/Fortitude insignias, and similar power boosts is going to not work well in the new metagame, and I don't think that more flexible stat adjustments (i.e. mount equip bonus, offhand stat boost, armor upgrade kits, which total 10.5k) will be quite enough to compensate without an exchnge, especially with the plethora of large static power boosts in new gear. Getting 27.5k power from T3 hunt armor effects is very challenging to rebalance stats around, when the majority of those bonuses were not present on previous tiers of gear (maybe 10k total). Moving those effects to post-rating also doesn't entirely work with the way Forte makes capping Power boost at 90% for DPS fairly straightforward. There's no clear solution here, except maybe splitting up the stat boosts from these items into more predictable and general offensive stats (i.e. instead of 10k power, 2% power, 2% crit, 2% crit sev, etc). Under the new system, since players do not need to be on the bleeding edge of any particular stat, having generic mixed boosts is much easier to not worry about over-capping from temporary boosts.

I would also strongly appreciate not binding exchanged enchantments/runestones/insignias. I know that by making the exchange, I'm saying "I need this item instead for my build", and so you can reasonably claim that I'm removing it from the market, but I have dozens of enchantments that became worthless as the power and HP-based gear metagame developed. The market distortion effects of making enchantments/runestones/insignias equally fungible isn't great, but it would give an enormous amount of player confidence that the intention here isn't to invalidate existing character investments, and feel like we're being treated fairly. The insignia dust system did a great job of reducing the price variation between insignias, and the choice packs normalized enchantment prices, so equalizing everything for a while shouldn't cause players investing in cheap off-meta enchantments to make an absolute killing like they would have previously. I also recognize that announcing this would cause market distortions, and it might still be premature to consider it, but please do your best.

That said, the other elephant in the room for player investment is Companions. The mount changes were alt-unfriendly, with account-wide mounts being necessary to keep comparable bolster between characters, and mythic upgrades being a significant investment in a particular character, to the tune of 2 million AD per mount, and 10 mythic mounts for BIS. Companions are the same, but worse. There are no legendary account-wide companions. Alts need to upgrade from at best purple, so unless the marginal boost from bolster isn't actually very important, that's incredibly expensive.

The companion "family" bolster system means that having an optimal combat companion is a distinct problem from having good Active Companion Bonuses. If there isn't a good combat companion in every family, and active bonuses aren't evenly distributed, it's possible players will need to invest in 10 Mythic companions for BIS, which is at minimum 2700 companion tokens, or 25 million AD, per character, which the exchange of Bonding runestones doesn't really cover. This is where calls of "cash grab" gain a lot of traction.

If every family is roughly even on combat companions, and active companion bonuses don't favor any particular family, this could be as low as 5 companions. I don't think the flavor benefit of having a families of companions for bolster justifies this potential variance, though. I would strongly suggest removing the family bolster, and just having the system be based on the best 5 companions. Even a compromise, i.e the bonus is the 3 best companions, the active companion, and one other from the same family as the active, would be saner.

Additionally, I would really like a system to make companions more alt-friendly. Whether this is account-wide legendary companions with good boosts, which would be an obvious money-maker for lockboxes/zen store, or the ability to pay massive amounts of AD to have a companion be reclaimable at its upgraded quality across the account, which would be a useful AD sink, the current proposed system makes capable alts an extremely expensive investment.

Changing the metagame of which upgraded companions are worthwhile is worse than enchantments, because at least enchantments can be sold, even if at a loss. You have a Legendary Fire Archon, and it has a worthless Active Combat bonus, doesn't do enough DPS to be a useful combat companion, plus isn't in the family for bolstering the active one? That's completely worthless to that character, and players are certainly not going to get compensation for that investment in any way. This happens consistently with rebalances, and is the core of why players are so resistant to even well-designed changes. If you downgraded every upgraded companion to its base quality, and refunded all the tokens for those upgrades, we would be less concerned, but that's even less likely than a free unbound exchange of runestones/enchantments/insignias.

mzreaper · December 2020

i ll just write about my personal experience here. I was one of those that left on mod16. I supported some of the necessary changes at first by my buff gf was killed, buff dc as well, gwf no longer felt like a gwf and would take dozens of millions of AD to just fix my character. Guild started to empty out, alliance was dead, queues took forever, i left. Came back just 2 weeks ago, game seemed in a great place, i was having fun and i was making good progress. And now this. Again, i like some of the changes in theory, having more stat choices, better scalling and potentially more build options. But you are implementing horribly again. All of my companions will need to be changed, all enchantments, runestones and insignias as well. Most of my mounts too. I can tell you right now that i wont be grinding for months just to fix my character, as things stand i wont be here to see mod20 go live, because whats the point? When you are playing an mmo you want to make progress on your character, not just spend your time fixing a mess someone else caused. Well, thats my two cents, i really hope you can find a way of implementing this changes well, but dont really expect anything to be done about it because we all know the reason for most of these changes and because, you know, previous experiences.

drago · December 2020

(1.) If people have to start from scratch there is a massive drop of playerbase. Some will move to other games instead of start new in neverwinter. This is very bad marketing. It only turn out positive if i.e. the 50% of remaining players spend 100% more money. In short term. In long term even in this case it turns out negative. As a new player I read forums when I decide to start a game. This marketing is a disaster. I come here and read M16(!!), nerf, rebalance, nerf, rebalance, nerf, M20(!!). Today I would not touch the game.
(2.) With massive shift in gameplay there is a drop of playerbase. Because many of those will leave the game - in short term - that are unhappy with the changes. In long term it is a bet on that new players will like the changes more than the old system and keep on playing longer. (Under the circumstances that the new players know about the fast pace of money meltdown.)
(3.) We get into areas the game is changing from F2P into P2W because a F2P player cannot earn enough in the fast pace of change, change, change.... the F2P player will decrease in amount take part in high end content, gated behind P2W. This again will decrease the playerbase, because many F2P players hardly disklike P2W style.
(4.) Many F2P players are - not - 0$ customers. They have friends, many of them are super friendly. Many of them are super helpful to new players, and the more players the more queues. The more queues the more players. If many F2P players will leave, many P2W customers will leave too. And if that happen -> Many new players will not continue, because for new players nothing more is discouraging to play/start a dying game.
(5.) Your scaling evolution alone could kill the game. If the players get scaled to the level that they are as strong as new players. If that happen, you get rid of what makes Neverwinter unique. Many veterans are able to solo group content. What makes you sure, they will keep on playing a copy of many other - more popular - games. Only because they played Nevewinter in the past years? Understand the players. This is not Neverwinter after these changes. It is Neverwinter 2.0. And the players understand it very well. There was never a better time to cut the ties and move to other games. You hardly discourage everyone that dislike these meltdowns. Feeling like a super hero in Diablo cow level is currently a part of the game. If you destroy it, there will be a drop in playerbase.
(6.) If random queues get harder, because you start harder scaling, many veterans will not risk their time loosing these random queues with new players / amateurs. They will plan their groups and / or run only with guild / friends. If this happen: You tried to hurt the king, but shot the peasent. Again and again and again you are doing the same faults. The uniquness of Neverwinter is, that it is not stereotype Rock, Paper, Scissors like WoW. It is an action based RPG. If you touch this, then Neverwinter goes Titanic Style. In this case Neverwinter will be harder to new players. Many new players will get discouraged and leave the game. There will be more hatespeech, because many players waste their time with new players. Many players will leave the game with more hatespeech.
(7.) Character Development: Many new players are couraged to get to the level at which many veterans are playing. Able to solo content. If there is only little difference in the scaled old queued content, they will see only little difference in strength. The character development is negligible and it could happen that they feel from start, arrived at end content. It could happen that they leave the game earlier than playing longer.

I feel sorry for these lessons of basic economics. Yes. It is a little bit cheeky. But I do not want this game to die. And with your planned changes it die. Either it is by playerbase drop or because it will be Neverwinter 2.0

Maybe it is time to reduce the dev team to a healthy level that fit to the revenue of neverwinter. Instead of milk more and more to guarantee earnings. This will fail faster than you might think. And if that happens, there are no earnings left at all.

Unknown · December 2020

This content has been removed.

drago · December 2020

hitchslapped said:

drago#3250 said:

I feel sorry for these lessons of basic economics. Yes. It is a little bit cheeky. But I do not want this game to die. And with your planned changes it die. Either it is by playerbase drop or because it will be Neverwinter 2.0

Maybe it is time to reduce the dev team to a healthy level that fit to the revenue of neverwinter. Instead of milk more and more to guarantee earnings. This will fail faster than you might think. And if that happens, there are no earnings left at all.

they've already cut back the dev team. the issue is that they won't fire the ones that keep having and implementing bad ideas.

also the changes would be more like neverwinter 4.0

And call it "bad ideas" is really friendly. You can achieve today a piece of gear(hunt) that is literally obsolete tomorrow. This is not only "bad idea". While we have today latest content(hunt) obsolete today by what happen in future. I would not call it "bad idea" but I am not allowed in the given ruleset to name it what it is.

Does Cryptic Studios have a CEO with experiences in game industry?

sundancewanderingwolf · December 2020

noworries#8859 said:
While the other threads are meant to stay lean so that the feedback can be easily seen/heard. This thread is for posting thoughts/concerns/complaints/etc. that you don't want to be deleted. Posts in this thread will only be removed if they break the standard forum guidelines.

Please use this thread for bigger/longer posts or posts that aren't direct feedback for one of the specific topics.

@noworries#8859
Could you provide a link for us to see those standard forum guidelines? People have become very upset finding their posts deleted. I understand wanting threads to stay on topic, that's fair.

I'm very concerned for the game right now. I've sent Chris a letter through these forums and I hope he reads it. Right now millions and millions of our AD is being thrown out the window with the power changes. I'm 17k over cap right now on my main (pally healer) on preview. Radiants, Empowered Runestones, power insignia's, companions that give power boosts be it flat or %, and not to mention armor that we've all farmed for a very long time and worked hard to acquire. All of our years of hard work, including adjusting to the Mod 16 fiasco is all being tossed right out the window.

I can see making changes, minor tweaks and adjustments, improvements etc... but to completely rewrite the system every couple of mods causes severe stress and strain on the community. The past year has been really good and people have been returning! Right now many players (including myself) feel that the dev team (or whoever is in charge at the top) doesn't care about us at all. What is going to be done about all these power buffs, especially from Zariel/Hunts armor? Most of it's going to be completely worthless in Mod 20. Is anything going to be done to adjust this? Change every piece of armor that gives a power boost or power % boost to something beneficial that will still be in high demand?

We need answers and reassurance right now, and I'm not just speaking for myself here. I convinced a lot of players to tough things out in Mod 16 until you guys fixed it and it took a very long time but things did turn around eventually, too late for many though still. Right now people are complaining in almost every zone over these changes. We don't need to be told to be patient or to calm down or that everything is going to be fine. We need to know that all of our hard work isn't going down the drain. For some people, this game is their lives and when things like this happens, their lives are shattered The result is most of those players leave for other MMOs. I heard from some of my friends in game who said they dropped over $200.00 a piece on the game during Black Friday and right now they feel it was a waste and have said they too may quit the game.

I hope you guys are taking this seriously, more seriously than Mod 16 because the few hard core players who are loyal to the game who stayed in Mod 16 might not stick around this time. Please help by giving us some answers soon. Thanks for listening.

sundancewanderingwolf · December 2020

P.S. from my husband, Romulus Scorpus:
If you have some ultimate plan, fill us in with what you're replacing this stuff with because the anguish this is causing, is unfair. The way the new stuff shows up on preview is an absolute disaster and I do not know why.

c1k4ml3kc3 · December 2020

arazith07 said:

Bring the convo over so we aren't taking away from the feedback thread.

I am not defending anything. I am saying that people are making up opinions too fast and often times using false data. STOP putting words in my mouth or making me out to something I am not. I have yet to give my actual opinion of if I like the changes or not. I am testing it, getting used to it, giving this the good old try before forming an opinion.

What you just said - I'm not defending anything, and then proceeded to defend the changes without even realizing why these are bad and you're not taking into the account that the premise of how these changes are applied is what is bad and/or wrong right off the bat. So, that makes it rather difficult to discuss with you as you are rather one-sided without even taking time to notice the economic aspect of these changes and how they affect the Playerbase. Furthermore, you're are also highly subjective without any reason, about something that greatly affect pretty much everyone, and with something that you try to portray as objective as possible simply based from your tunnel vision. STILL, I'll try.

The opinion is not made too fast, as we've seen what the Preview had in hand. The history of the Preview changes and feedback given for the sake of Bugs not to hit live almost always failed. People gave up giving reports on bugs and changes since player opinions are disregarded. This system we see now will in all likelihood hit the Live servers and leave a lot of people baffled. A lot of bugs will also hit Live servers.

Besides, whether the system is good or bad is beyond what the main issue is, which is - poor communication with the Playerbase, that keeps being the main and active problem. This change is forced, no other way to explain it. Nobody asked for this. I asked you to point to me who asked for this?
Extremely poor communication at that because our opinions are disregarded and thrown away, whilst only those opinions that benefit company's pockets are taken into the account rather than wanting to make a fun and exciting game.

This is, first and foremost, a Video Game and it should be fun to play, and not grind to play.

arazith07 said:

Now as for your list of facts.
-How are we weaker than before? Yes the numbers are smaller, but so are the HP pools. The killing time is about the same from what I have seen. Mobs can still be one shot in Avernus, including the Pit fiends.

You just gave an answer to yourself directly with "Yes the numbers are smaller". "The killing time is about the same from what I've seen" - You have no evidence for this whatsoever. I have data.

This is live

This is a direct transfer to Preview, minus Guild buffs, but with all Boons. Only thing that didn't work, that I slotted here was Green Slime since the tooltip is somehow messed up.

This is after everything was fully upgraded as much as it was possible, right off the bat, with 25 Mythic pets, all possible enchantments and getting the max CA. Only thing that didn't work, that I slotted here was Green Slime since the tooltip is somehow messed up.

arazith07 said:
-The second I hopped onto live, power was capped, most other stats were at 50%. Where is the nerf? What is needed to get back to where I was before...from my experience nothing was lost. Again smaller numbers yes, but same results as the live server. When you do spend those AD and tokens, you should end up stronger by that logic.

This is a completely skewed point of view and an outright lie.
First of all, although Power can be capped, by "most" other stats being at 50% simply means that you are effectively weaker as the enemies by default have 90% Deflection that you need to reach prior to actually being able to hit them for 10% of your previous force. Meaning, you have to work to be as slightly effective as you are on the Live server right now. You will never, at least not for another 6 months to a year, be able to hit anywhere near the amount of damage you can on Live right now. And this is true for many players.
I need your evidence for "same results" as the live server at this point, because you are sharing misleading info.

arazith07 said:
-Yes we are no longer gaining as much stats from companions as we were before...but honestly, isn't that a good thing?

No. Why? Because we were told that this is a good thing over and over again, which suddenly isn't a good thing. In fact, people were rather vocal against Bonding Runestones became meta. Bonding Runestones slowly, but surely, became the cornerstone of any build, and right now you are basically saying that previous 15 mods or so were just wrong to have had Bonding Runestones and pets sharing power and whatnot. No, don't try it with me. You can't sell that to me when the most logical reason why these took a change is for the players to empty their pockets.

arazith07 said:
Why should more than half our stats come from companions like they do on live?

Ask the developers who have been making that in the past several years, not me??? I still spent a lot of effort, time and resources to get to where I was only to see it taken away with a single update. And this wouldn't be the first time this happened, I'm tired and sick of it to the core. If you enjoy being slapped in the face every now and then, good for you, I'm not masochistic to accept these changes as a beneficial thing for the players when in fact all data points to the fact I'm weaker and we've no reasoning behind any of the changes.

"Players asked" & "Based on feedback" is just putting the blame on the players, when in fact it's the players who are dissatisfied with the changes to begin with. Except you, seemingly, for whatever reason.

arazith07 said:
I do agree that the combat damage does need to be buffed, but hey, that's why it's in preview to give feedback on.
-Enchantments are doing two things to our stats atm, the Item level ratings is going up, adding to our TiL, meaning all enchantments and anything else that gives iL is giving us more damage and HP directly. Not to mention the CR adding to all the stats, and finally the +300 stat part is added. Not capping all stats actually adds more choice to the game which people have been asking for.

"Adding more choice" by removing all choice. You are funny at this point, borderline ridiculous. It's like one of those jokes where Genie being asked to make a wish gives you a literal definition rather than what the person wished for. Having more options refers to the Encounters, At-Wills, abilities to build toons, more content to play, various items that give same and/or similar stats.

Right now you have an ability to be weak in one way, or another way. Right off the bat. Transition to the new system, which right now is basically a completely new game, is more or less like this - We will take all your effort you put into making these enchantments, and make them completely obsolete simply because 95% of the playerbase are using them all the time. and don't tell me how that's a bad thing, it falls on Developers to make things more interesting or desirable for players to use WITHOUT making the players lose all their value for all their builds each time. It is just insincere and awful, a typical money scheme.

arazith07 said:
-They have stated the reason why bonding runestones were removed, you just choose to think there is no reason.

There is no reason for bonding changes after everyone were using them and got used to them. That's another statement, you just chose to think that there is a reason behind it based on their statement which you do not want to question.

arazith07 said:
-This is not as big a rework as M16 was, this is just their tweaks to that system after hearing feedback from the players. There are several long forum threads with feedback in the CDP section, get involved there if you aren't liking the changes.

Hahaha! So basically you're saying that

a) A completely new system taking away an ability that was there since M1, whilst making you 10x weaker and without ability to hit all caps, furthermore making you to lose all your ThreeStat enchantments (Like Black Ice which you couldn't even trade in for a Single Stat)) is somehow different from M16 which took away an ability that was there since M1, and made you 10x weaker and without an ability to hit all caps, on top of which it wants to yet again take all your enchants (Radiants) which in all likelihood won't be traded for any ThreeStat enchant, on top of which all Enchants were also superbly nerfed to the ground?

b) If you're not in CDP, your opinion doesn't count. (as if somehow the CDP's opinion will count rofl)

If this really was a plan all along, where is it mentioned that there will be a serious System overhaul? Where was it marketed? Where was it talked over? Where is the topic pointing to it? Where on the Roadmap is it located? Who stated, without any ambiguity, that there will be a severe System overhaul in terms of the mechanics? What you're doing right now is projecting your point of view and wishful thinking into trying to rationalize and give support to the people behind who are simply following the orders from higherups who are not even thinking about what the Players want. As I said earlier, this is a money scheme. Nothing else. They tried with Mounts, but people were quick to fight back. So now they did it with Companions and while at it - a new system altogether.

If the new system is there, then why the nerfs to Enchantments? Why suddenly being able to hit for 90% of time? Didn't we agree and were specifically told that SUCH a thing was the reason for why Recovery was removed? Because players were too good in reaching the hard/soft caps on the stats? So, please, please do not give me that half-way chewed-up argument how these changes are for our own good when we're just going in circles with the changes.

arazith07 said:
-I'm just as surprised as you with all the changes, but that doesn't mean you can't look back and see all the pieces either in the CDP threads or their stated goals. Keep in mind that most of these changes was to make scaling a better system.

Scaling as a whole is a horrible design. Also, I'm not surprised at the changes, I am disappointed at the company's disinterest to really engage in the community. CDP threads? Wasn't this like "We'll see about CDP guys, maybe in 2022?" It is just a way to make the most elite players or people who are sharing interesting ideas and info to feel special, but reality is that none of the devs nor higherups will listen to CDP things and most of the things will be disregarded completely for the sake of a quick cashgrab and money scheme. You think only Neverwinter has things like CDP? Seen around other MMOS and similar outcomes?

"It's for your own good" - No, it's not for my own good to grind for three more months to be as 10% strong as I was before said changes, which by the time I finally feel good to play will change yet again making me to grind more. A Neverending Grind Online.

arazith07 said:
-For all we know, this could be a bug. Report it like devs have asked us to, or wait for confirmation on if it is intended or not, this is preview after all.

Yeah, I reported Wizard bugs for quite some time now. I want those to be dealt with. Many have reported bugs on Preview before they hit live, and never, not once, did these get fixed before hitting live. Which is misleading as people then believe that things are WAI. Nobody believes them anymore and because of things like these abrupt changes, they are completely right to not believe them one single bit.

arazith07 said:
- Did you bother to see if the mobs have had a similar reduction to HP? A number without reference means nothing. If they half the damage but cut monster health by 1/4th, there are people who would call that a nerf when in actuality it is a buff. Stats will have to move around since you are not built for the new system, that is bound to happen. Did you even have the same buffs/debuffs up?

"That is bound to happen" is not what you should be telling me, instead, if you are still curious about the system, you should be asking developers "Why is this system necessary and why removing Armor Penetration benefits us all even though it's been there for previous 5+ years without any issue". When I see that sort of a comment from you, with a genuine curiosity, I'll believe that you're not some form of Cryptic's underdog. Till then, tough chance. Everything you spawn sounds like a corporate bot-like theme.

arazith07 said:
You really can't judge something at face value with as extensive of changes as we are seeing. You really have to dive in and look at all the numbers.

Hahaha, I can judge the extensive changes which begin abruptly and have no value to me. Especially when this isn't the first time it's happening, and especially after the time things like this happen - players tend to leave the game. Not because they are quick to jump to conclusions, but because they don't want their time to be wasted in doing something and achieving something without having anything to show for once these things get completely nerfed for the sake of company's funds and a hope that new players will spend extra cash. And in that way, your comments help to the company because you're trying too hard to damage control, but everyone knows it's a sham at best.

arazith07 said:
Keep in mind that I have yet to actually form an opinion on this system, I am not defending it. All I am saying is that it is too early to tell what the overall effect it. But from what I have read so far, it seems you are not understanding the changes, or are too biased from being a victim in your eyes. I'm not saying to "wait and see", I saying to dive in and see what fits. Try it out before passing judgement. Spend time with it to gain a better understanding.

I'm not biased in any way, form nor shape. I'm offering my complete detest of recent Cryptic's actions that are possibly forced by their higherups in the publishing world. As such, I know that nobody from the higherups will even care about either your nor my opinion, but at the face value you're helping them to attain as many players by trying to provide SOME optimism. At best, you look like a CM in training, and at worst like a Cryptic's underdog who's here solely for the sake of dealing with the backlash that's bound to happen.

Usually, in the MMO world, companies pay around $15-$30 on an hourly basis to attract bots, by using freelance services, and people who will openly defend any and all company's changes and reply to each and every "malicious" post they find on pretty much all of their social platforms. You're basically acting like a CM without actually being a CM, which is funny in its own right to some extent.

I'm not saying that's who you are, I'm not saying that's what you do, but I'm just noticing how you are acting and can't help but wonder if you are on a paycheck or not.

arazith07 said:
M16 was largely disliked and apologized for because of the harsh scaling

Here's the absolute WIN of a comment. Yes, because M16 greatest issue was SCALING lol. Not hte fact it was a completely different game with encounters that took forever for a Cooldown.

You are here, given a theme, to defend these changes under the premise of "Scaling Issues" - If and however someone mentiones "Scaling", you're there to say how the biggest feedback by players was "Scaling Changes" rather than "Scaling Removal since it is Useless", and thus you avert people from actually thinking on what is really important question such as - why are these changes needed, who asked for them, how are these changes implemented, and what for, and if they are already implemented - WHAT in the Nine Hells is Cryptic doing to help this transition feel as smooth and painless as possible because of a big HAMSTER up in M16 that made so many people leave the game. That's what's important, scaling on its own is not important at all.

arazith07 said:
People loathed the scaling so much. People understood why lifesteal and recovery were toxic for the game. It was the scaling that needed the attention. They did some patch work fixing here and there and this is the result they have come to. It's now our time to provide feedback and see if they will listen or not. So far, the scaling feedback is rather positive, there are some needed adjustments that have been pointed out and we've already gotten word that they are looking into fixing it.

The reason why Recovery was used the most is because Developers made Clerics & Paladins to share the game. That's the root of the problem, and not the LifeSteal & Recovery which were used to play this game somewhat interestingly. And even at that point M16 was the biggest letdown since M6, but this new thing happening now seems to fit yet another pattern that will happen.

I don't even want to ask people who spent like 6.000.000 to buy stuff like Hunt Lures about how they feel now when all of that is basically obsolete after, what, two weeks? Three weeks?

TBH I don't like what you have to say because I find it misleading, off the point, and you do not recognize that what company's doing is wrong and least transparent to the playerbase EVEN AFTER all the effort we, as players, have put to express why such a thing like M16 should never, ever, happen. and don't pretend how mimicking came to apologize solely for the Scaling changes. That's cherrypicking at best.

Official - Combat Changes - Bigger Discussion/ No Delete Thread

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