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Why Shadowy Opportunity hits that hard??

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  • onegaki101onegaki101 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Sadly that SoD bug has been present since Mod5 release. They have not bother to fix it and don't expect them to fix it any time soon like many long existing bugs. They can't even get the main part of SoD working where any power should trigger SoD from stealth.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    quspiv wrote: »
    How do you want to make this class more tactical where the only real burst is melee range with 20s cd that can be dodged? or you meant tactical reroll to CW for 5s desintegrate and

    - me shield
    - me cc you
    - me 3 shot you from high range


    Even if i'd have throw 3 most dmging TR encounters + 2x SE i wouldn't kill CW with a shield, since shield itself will block 90%+ dmg of LB, while in order to proc double SE target needs to be under 35% hp. (if you've SE at rank 4)

    Check the video in: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?907751-Shadow-of-Demise-bug&p=10720981#post10720981

    Where i reported potential bug with SoD (some abilties still interupt the stealth regen) you can see the dmg logs (even though quality is bad)

    Well, how does current GWF work?

    1 big nuke that must follow
    1 ranged 17s CD stun dodgeable
    Build stacks first
    time sprint to dodge CC, and dose it to both defend and close gap

    It's high risk-high reward

    Never said CW doesn't need changes.
    I'd move damage back to shard for example.

    Other classes have bugs too. GWFs unstoppable fails to activate sometimes. Imagine. As if your stealth would bug out and, say, do not activate again unless you relog or unless you get bounced/ pushed by someone.
    It's not a reason to avoid balance.

    Balance dictates you either get high attack-low def or medium attack-medium def or low attack-high def you can't have both like current CWs with shield on tab and powerful DPS.
    Also, balance dictates that you either have

    High risk-high reward
    Medium risk-medium reward
    Low risk-low reward

    Module 3 perma was low risk low reward. Changes to dodge rolls and deflect while keeping same extensive stealth mechanic made the risk even lower, and at the same time DPS were increased.

    Now, for what i care, a TR can take 70% of my HPs with 1 hit if that means it's dodgeable and they take a comparable risk, And pressing 1 button to SE from stealth is not my idea of high risk.

    If a TR is able to stay in stealth and my only way to catch him is predict and go through dodge rolls spam and a chain of tools leaving few milliseconds to really catch him (low risk), then his DPS should be so low that i have the time to use my skill to find him.

    Not current "me kill you in 15 seconds, find me before that happenz tololololol".

    If "learn to predict his position" is a counter, then module 3 roar spam GWF got a counter equal to that: learn to predict where and when he will roar and move away before that happens.
    Was this a counter? Nope. Cause it would've been

    "Me roarroarroar spamspamspam, me catch you you die"
    "You predict may be you fight back, you do not predict i roarroarroar melt you"

    And every player me included would've said it was bullsh*t.
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  • drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    With all due respect, you cannot deny that the current TR has the best of both worlds right now.

    The old Trickster Rogue from modules 1-4 had no stealth reveal, but mediocre damage, its only source of damage was Duelist's Flurry. But the extended stealth and survivability made up for it. It greatly annoyed people that TR's spammed daggers from stealth though, but thankfully the damage wasn't that threatening.

    In module 5, they got game breaking amounts of damage (and piercing damage too), but they had the stealth reveal. That stealth reveal made it possible for tactical counter-attacks. So the TR had to be a little bit more careful, especially when facing multiple people.


    Now? Best of both worlds. The TR can attack as he pleases from stealth while melting his opponents like they were made of paper. If he screws up. He has 4 dodges, and for Master Infiltrators: Impossible to Catch.

    There is no way to defeat a (good) TR right now. Because you're forced to slot AOE's to have a chance to interrupt or see the TR. While he is mocking you from stealth.

    You might come up with the arugment that the loss of the 30% Profound bonus and stealth uptime makes up for it... but we both know it makes no difference right now.

    If the piercing damage could be gone I wouldn't even mind the loss of the 2 second stealth reveal.

    Balancing TR really isn't rocket science:

    - Piercing damage into physical

    - Impossible to Catch reworked to only break free from CC (So the forgotten WhisperKnives can feel a little bit on-par)

    - Shocking Execution from MI's respecting Tenacity.

    - Two second reveal back (Optional, I personally don't mind the no-reveal if the piercing damage is gone)


    That's it... that's all the TR needs right now to be balanced. If these things happen... then TR would actually become a tactical class for crafty and creative people. Because right now, it is not.

    I can agree with all of these.
    ez0sf4K.png
    Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
    Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
    SYNERGY Alliance
  • demonkyuubidemonkyuubi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    will there ever be a rogue nerf thread where itc and our deflect is not mentioned?
  • mjytreszmjytresz Member Posts: 500 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Everywhere I go, you're whining about the same thing.
    Everywhere I see you, you're spouting the same nonsense.
    pando83 wrote: »
    You guys miss the point. It's not the result i pointed out. It's the mechanic.

    The other player are not experienced PvPers but the TR isn't either.

    What does the TR do?
    Spam attacks, stay invisible, spamm long dodge rolls.

    It's same old story.

    Except this isn't Mod 5.
    The "spam attacks" part means the TR isn't permastealth. Which means he's visible. Which means any sensible team is going to focus his *** down.
    Your video shows an idiot TR against an idiot team. Of course the TR is going to faceroll, because he's against idiots.
    Put that same TR against anyone who knows what they're doing and he's more of a liability than an asset.
    Likewise, sensible PvPers know what they're doing. Really, and once again, what you're crying about is "duh this TR facerolled my idiot pug".
    pando83 wrote: »
    TR:
    - reach level cap
    - use the latest permatroll build
    - go invisible
    - spam attacks
    - pop immunity/ smoke bomb
    - spam long dodge rolls
    PROFIT

    The stupid is strong in this one.
    There is no "latest permatroll build" due to all of the stealth nerfs.
    The only permastealth builds are:

    1) Roll MI and spam Gloaming Cut. A melee range at-will with windup time and an audio queue
    2) Roll WK and spam Disheartening Strike. A ranged DoT that takes time to kill
    pando83 wrote: »
    ENEMY:
    - Learn to predict where the invisible TR will be
    or
    DIE

    I forgot the radius of a point is the same as a chase scene on Fast & Furious.
    I hate to say it but you're obviously bad. I'm one of those "LOL PERMATROLL PRESS TAB AND KILL EVERYONE" TRs you whine so hard about and there are not only a lot of mechanics to expose a TR but a lot of sensible players who will draw a TR out or at least make life hard for them.
    pando83 wrote: »
    In that video is shown exactly the gameplay me and others described:

    A TR facestomping noobs

    Glad we cleared that up.
    pando83 wrote: »
    The mechanic i contest is "class is semi-squishy (TRs usually don't go down that easily), then allow them to be invisible all the time or almost all the time and spam long immunity rolls with immunities/ smoke bomb here and there"

    Smoke Bomb has a delay. And an audio queue.
    I don't know how incoherent you have to be to not avoid this but it's pretty true. I can Sanctuary on my OP before Smoke Bomb. I can also Shadow Slip away on my SW before Smoke Bomb. What's your excuse?
    Also, and once again because you really fail to grasp this, only one paragon path has ITC. And ITC doesn't make you immortal.
    pando83 wrote: »
    What i think the devs should do and always thought they should've done, is to move away from the brainless stealthstealthstealthrollrollroll gameplay and make it more tactical.

    You know, the difference there is between a module 3 roar-spamming-braindead GWF gameplay and current time-your-sprit-carefully time your unstoppable-carefully build your stacks-flawlessly land your CC-nuke-profit.

    So, what you're saying is, you want devs to make things easier for you. Because timing your CC to a TR's dodges is too hard.
    Likewise, as a TR, I have to time my Encounters to the end of a CW's dodge.
    It's not that ****ing difficult. If you invested even half the effort you spent whining on the forums into being a decent PvPer, you'd look back on these posts and be ashamed you even typed them out.
    Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?

    Go Cryptic!
    PS - I quit.
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    pando83 wrote: »
    You guys miss the point. It's not the result i pointed out. It's the mechanic.

    The other player are not experienced PvPers but the TR isn't either.

    What does the TR do?
    Spam attacks, stay invisible, spamm long dodge rolls.

    It's same old story.

    TR:
    - reach level cap
    - use the latest permatroll build
    - go invisible
    - spam attacks
    - pop immunity/ smoke bomb
    - spam long dodge rolls
    PROFIT

    ENEMY:
    - Learn to predict where the invisible TR will be
    or
    DIE

    In that video is shown exactly the gameplay me and others described:

    - me stealth
    - me zapzapzap DPS you
    - me rollrollrollroll

    The mechanic i contest is "class is semi-squishy (TRs usually don't go down that easily), then allow them to be invisible all the time or almost all the time and spam long immunity rolls with immunities/ smoke bomb here and there"

    What i think the devs should do and always thought they should've done, is to move away from the brainless stealthstealthstealthrollrollroll gameplay and make it more tactical.

    You know, the difference there is between a module 3 roar-spamming-braindead GWF gameplay and current time-your-sprit-carefully time your unstoppable-carefully build your stacks-flawlessly land your CC-nuke-profit.

    better than a visible CW that can melt you down in secs nor a HR that you cant catch. Pando cant you wait for you gwf buff and your still here crying over class that cant face you head on?
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    k9madrush wrote: »
    better than a visible CW that can melt you down in secs nor a HR that you cant catch. Pando cant you wait for you gwf buff and your still here crying over class that cant face you head on?

    CW class requires its own fixes, already discussed in another thread.
    GWF buffs, you see them? Where? The guy who promised them is not even here anymore. Last post about it from
    Panderus:
    Promised is a strong word, I think I mentioned this previously but these changes may not be coming for some time as we deal with higher priority issues and evaluate overall class balance.

    So right now i talk about things i can see.

    And i see since module 1 the same mechanic and the same "learn 2 predict" non-argument.

    Also, looks like you guys are not mature enough to discuss a gameplay mechanic without resorting to same childish trolling behaviour like "you are crying for...".
    As titania said, the fact we are discussing a gameplay mechanic does not mean we are not able to face the class but looks like some TRs are so out of arguments that the only thing they can do is try to troll in the same old way.

    But "some" TR has a really unimpressive K/D ratio for a rogue in game, so i see why all he can do is call other players "bad" on a forum. Lol (not talkin' about you K9 i don't even know who you are in game).
    See you in game, as stated multiple times my toons are listed in signature, my @ is my forum nickname and everyone is free to look for me in game.
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    mjytresz wrote: »
    Everywhere I go, you're whining about the same thing.
    Everywhere I see you, you're spouting the same nonsense.



    Except this isn't Mod 5.
    The "spam attacks" part means the TR isn't permastealth. Which means he's visible. Which means any sensible team is going to focus his *** down.
    Your video shows an idiot TR against an idiot team. Of course the TR is going to faceroll, because he's against idiots.
    Put that same TR against anyone who knows what they're doing and he's more of a liability than an asset.
    Likewise, sensible PvPers know what they're doing. Really, and once again, what you're crying about is "duh this TR facerolled my idiot pug".



    The stupid is strong in this one.
    There is no "latest permatroll build" due to all of the stealth nerfs.
    The only permastealth builds are:

    1) Roll MI and spam Gloaming Cut. A melee range at-will with windup time and an audio queue
    2) Roll WK and spam Disheartening Strike. A ranged DoT that takes time to kill



    I forgot the radius of a point is the same as a chase scene on Fast & Furious.
    I hate to say it but you're obviously bad. I'm one of those "LOL PERMATROLL PRESS TAB AND KILL EVERYONE" TRs you whine so hard about and there are not only a lot of mechanics to expose a TR but a lot of sensible players who will draw a TR out or at least make life hard for them.



    Glad we cleared that up.



    Smoke Bomb has a delay. And an audio queue.
    I don't know how incoherent you have to be to not avoid this but it's pretty true. I can Sanctuary on my OP before Smoke Bomb. I can also Shadow Slip away on my SW before Smoke Bomb. What's your excuse?
    Also, and once again because you really fail to grasp this, only one paragon path has ITC. And ITC doesn't make you immortal.



    So, what you're saying is, you want devs to make things easier for you. Because timing your CC to a TR's dodges is too hard.
    Likewise, as a TR, I have to time my Encounters to the end of a CW's dodge.
    It's not that ****ing difficult. If you invested even half the effort you spent whining on the forums into being a decent PvPer, you'd look back on these posts and be ashamed you even typed them out.

    Enless stream of complete and utter <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> full of l2p issues and denial as usal.

    Lets get some facts stright instead of the living in denial lala fantazy world....

    Open up leaderboard

    1st Tr 1811 kills 54 death
    2d Tr 1720 kills 181 death
    3rd Tr 1544 Kills 76 death
    4th Tr 1517 kills 368 death
    5th Tr 1383 250 death

    Now compare that to other classes ratio but hey they can die so its balanced and just a l2p issue.

    Why should a class have 5-10 times better Kd ratio then the other classes -simply it shouldent.

    Tr is continuously broken with way to much survivability toward damage .
    And yes Perma is back you lieing little Tr you know it and everybody that pvp knows it but hey keep denying it maby some belive you at least until they face one in pvp.....
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    CW class requires its own fixes, already discussed in another thread.
    GWF buffs, you see them? Where? The guy who promised them is not even here anymore. Last post about it from
    Panderus:

    Why blame TR for not getting your buff? want popsicle?
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    marnival wrote: »
    Enless stream of complete and utter <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> full of l2p issues and denial as usal.

    Lets get some facts stright instead of the living in denial lala fantazy world....

    Open up leaderboard

    1st Tr 1811 kills 54 death
    2d Tr 1720 kills 181 death
    3rd Tr 1544 Kills 76 death
    4th Tr 1517 kills 368 death
    5th Tr 1383 250 death

    Now compare that to other classes ratio but hey they can die so its balanced and just a l2p issue.

    Why should a class have 5-10 times better Kd ratio then the other classes -simply it shouldent.

    Tr is continuously broken with way to much survivability toward damage .
    And yes Perma is back you lieing little Tr you know it and everybody that pvp knows it but hey keep denying it maby some belive you at least until they face one in pvp.....

    cool story bro but cryptic doesnt need story weavers atm. just leave your CV on the desk
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    k9madrush wrote: »
    cool story bro but cryptic doesnt need story weavers atm. just leave your CV on the desk

    Numbers are live for all to see this is pure facts how things look as usal your arguments are that of a 6 yaer old time to grow up and face reality maby .....

    Oh and btw dont leave your CV in the open its would not be good for you obviously.....
  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    marnival wrote: »
    Numbers are live for all to see this is pure facts how things look as usal your arguments are that of a 6 yaer old time to grow up and face reality maby .....

    Oh and btw dont leave your CV in the open its would not be good for you obviously.....

    what did you earn/prove? nothing.... your tantrums in mod 5 is ignored because TR is in its rightful place now this page is clearly a black propaganda.
  • obsydian666obsydian666 Member Posts: 329 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    k9madrush wrote: »
    what did you earn/prove? nothing.... your tantrums in mod 5 is ignored because TR is in its rightful place now this page is clearly a black propaganda.

    So in your opinion for example 1021 kills and 24 deaths is balanced ?:D
    sory dude it is 42:1 show me any other class with that maddnes ratio.
    TR was always good in pvp even when people said he is useless, but in good premade there was always 1 TR becouse he has the best survivability in whole game and can hold point even 2 and 3 vs1 for long time. From mod 5 with damage buff TR is just OP and o be honest i can't see any diference between module 5 and 6.
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  • djoffer1djoffer1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    As long as half the team in EVERY pvp match consist of TR's, then yes they are still ridicilus overpowered...
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    djoffer1 wrote: »
    As long as half the team in EVERY pvp match consist of TR's, then yes they are still ridicilus overpowered...

    order leaderboard for wins: most of them are cws.
    oder leaderboard for kills: most of them are cws.
    go gaunt: most of them are cws or gfs.

    and i keep saying if piercing is too much something stormspell like would be balanced? i take it.
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  • k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    macjae wrote: »
    Without the stealth reveal, TRs look as strong as in module 5, if anything; that compensates for the loss of Knife's Edge. They just removed some of the other options that made TRs easy mode, so it may be a little harder for a bit until every TR gets a proper cookie cutter build down.

    stealth reveal and depletion was implemented long time ago still complaining about it?
  • djoffer1djoffer1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    k9madrush wrote: »
    stealth reveal and depletion was implemented long time ago still complaining about it?

    Well since stealth reveal isnt working, it kind of makes sense that people stille complains about perma stealth dont u think!?
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  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    pando83 wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/I_uuddZWqr0

    It's not like this guy is one-sidedly attacking from stealth and spamming long immunity rolls.

    No no.
    Did you mean to post some other video? Because all I can see on that one is some of the worst anti-TR play I've ever witnessed, and against a not-that-great TR either. I mean, right at the start he stands on the point in plain sight, the enemy CW catches him by surprise and uses repel on him! Really? Any half-decent CW would have vaporised him on the spot.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
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  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    clonkyo1 wrote: »
    WEll, i will not defend that TR or those 3 players... but what that video shows is that, even bad players had difficult times vs bad TRs...
    Successfully countering a TR has a steep learning curve, no question. And if you don't play the class it will be even steeper as you won't know all the little things that can upset a permastealth rotation (although the TR in that vid wasn't really perma). I'd also agree that a TR can be easy to do well with against inexperienced players even if the TR is not much more experienced. At higher levels of skill/experience though things do even out a lot.

    That isn't to say that some things about the TR don't need some adjustment, but the same can be said about some other classes also.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
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  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Out of arguments, i see. Not like i expected anything different. This game for many players is like
    'enemy got unbalanced mechanic--->please fix. Me got unbalanced mechanic--->yesh plz. Need it'

    But i understand it. Not every player can play skill-based builds (TR class has some too). Some must go for the easy route or they would not be able to move a single step in PvP.
  • soul0person1soul0person1 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Shall I join in with my Sophora? :D I would love to though!!
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    its not to discuss if Tr is broken, as some other classes are, facing them and inspecting them afterwards you will not meet lots of other classes (are there any?) that can perform this way even with crappy gear, its cheap all know it, I don´t mind

    warlock is hard to play against lots of classes, most problems i do have against TR
    but I don´t cry for a boost or a nerf, i don´t mind, I play the class sometimes succeed, somtimes i don´t
    but what I hate is ppl who negate the obvious advantage this class has compared to others, thats really dumb and the ppl that show up are alway the same, like in mod 5
    I don´t mind since my only conclusion is that these players have serious L2P issues , so its their reality and their kind of gameplay that seems to differ from the majority of TR who easily perform in game

    finding Tr in stealth is not that easy as some ppl are telling all time since the class is mobile as hell, as everyone should know, show me a pala/GF finding TR in stealth, even my stamina does not last for ever as warlock
    some guys want to tell me that perma stealth does not play a big role atm...I am sure you do something wrong in game since I meet too much of them, go GG--> show me a non perma build in case of beeing invisible all time by gaining stealth with ease in fight
    I can see the Tr in stealth, yes, but I can´t target him THATS A DIFFERENCE !
    and since he always dodges and deflects like hell , the player who want to tell me TR´s lag in defence mechanics and are dead meat out of stealth are not taken for serious imo

    look at this video pando posted and tell me how much damage this TR avoids, try this with any other class please

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSGxzqDDwCU
  • ivantomdisplayivantomdisplay Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015

    My main is CW (an average I must say - g.vorp+l.sf) , but after reading trough various CW feedback and our (CW) whining about EVERY SINGLE THING that can counter CW, this video made me laugh.
    [10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
    Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
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