1st of GWF is PRIMARY STRIKER CLASS ofc hes supposed to deal most of the dmg
2nd there are some issues with GWF dmg on ptr sometiems it bugs out and the damage goes insane the example is 957k restoring strike crit
Well, HE claimed, that CW outdpsed GWF by 30-50%, I state, that GWF did MORE dmg and you try to bash me for that, really?
I did NOT ask for a nerf, I did NOT post FALSE or FLAWED ACT numbers, but asked for solid data, to back up their claims of CW greatness in Mod 6.
But hey, sorry, claim whatever you want, dont bother with reality. I play CW, so if I say, that it is false, that CW does more dmg than GWF on preview, just bc it is so, the facts dont matter, bc GWF is a striker class.
BTW I could not care less, if GWF outperforms CW or the other way around. My GWF has better equip and more epic companions, than my CW. I just hate the fact that ppl CLAIM something without SOLID proof, behave, as if they stated FACTS and DEMAND proof, that their claims are wrong.
...
BTW, concidering the ACT logs I HAVE seen GWF did the most dmg in group fights, but no one started a nerf MOD 6 GWF post, bc GWF needs some love and nobody can really predict, what will go live in a few weeks.
In general I don't feel that any class should always be the top damage in all situations but that it should vary. The pure offense glass cannon gwf certainly has the right to land there, though. A tank speced GWF less so.
Well, HE claimed, that CW outdpsed GWF by 30-50%, I state, that GWF did MORE dmg and you try to bash me for that, really?
I did NOT ask for a nerf, I did NOT post FALSE or FLAWED ACT numbers, but asked for solid data, to back up their claims of CW greatness in Mod 6.
But hey, sorry, claim whatever you want, dont bother with reality. I play CW, so if I say, that it is false, that CW does more dmg than GWF on preview, just bc it is so, the facts dont matter, bc GWF is a striker class.
BTW I could not care less, if GWF outperforms CW or the other way around. My GWF has better equip and more epic companions, than my CW. I just hate the fact that ppl CLAIM something without SOLID proof, behave, as if they stated FACTS and DEMAND proof, that their claims are wrong.
Define a solid proof, you're blowing an air asking to serve you the moon on a plate that you can't even touch.
In general I don't feel that any class should always be the top damage in all situations but that it should vary. The pure offense glass cannon gwf certainly has the right to land there, though. A tank speced GWF less so.
There really isnt a tank spec on the GWF class, its a total misnomer, and its even more so for mod 6. A sents damage is way too low, considering how really pathetic they are damage reduction, survival. They are no where near a GF even specced for it, not even close to a paladin really.
But really thats another topic.
Cws are fine, if you want to move some damage off the feat and give me back my direct damage through shard again, Im ok with that as well.
Im in agreement that the SW should have some encounters buffed, but I thought at the start of playing that class, I got mine the AD set, got it through all campaigns and 3rd boon of WoD and sat it after that, TT was the only thing that made the class good imo, but I never tried the new path, so maybe that was ok.
Define a solid proof, you're blowing an air asking to serve you the moon on a plate that you can't even touch.
Solide proof? Well, how about ACT numbers of LVL 70 players, not lvl 60, for starters, or ACT numbers of group performance and/or solo performance of lvl 70 players in dungeons or running solo?
HE DEMANDS a nerf, HE needs to back up his claims, not the other way around.
Colorful words dont transmute claims to truth or change the burden of proof.
Solide proof? Well, how about ACT numbers of LVL 70 players, not lvl 60, for starters, or ACT numbers of group performance and/or solo performance of lvl 70 players in dungeons or running solo?
HE DEMANDS a nerf, HE needs to back up his claims, not the other way around.
Colorful words dont transmute claims to truth or change the burden of proof.
The truth is, your class is blutantly overpowered since beta, you're blutantly defending it and you're blutantly trying to convience us the parsing provided is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and not worthy. Any veteran will tell you it's truth but oh well, I think we could organize some lvl 70 parsing too since this one http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?865751-mod-6-Control-Wizard-serious-balance-issues/page9 in @denvald's post does not seem fitting to you. If it's even possible at all.
The truth is, your class is blutantly overpowered since beta, you're blutantly defending it and you're blutantly trying to convience us the parsing provided is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and not worthy. Any veteran will tell you it's truth but oh well, I think we could organize some lvl 70 parsing too since this one http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?865751-mod-6-Control-Wizard-serious-balance-issues/page9 in @denvald's post does not seem fitting to you. If it's even possible at all.
I know this ACT post, but did you read this 'Lv 60 character scaled to 70, both are using perfect vorpal, 17k GS'. They are NOT lvl 70, they LACK 10 feat points, they DONT have rank 4 passives/ spells.
Claiming, that CW is OP based on that ACT numbers is as valid, as claiming, that Mod 6 SW is OP dd, bc Mod 5 SW is OP dd.
I know this ACT post, but did you read this 'Lv 60 character scaled to 70, both are using perfect vorpal, 17k GS'. They are NOT lvl 70, they LACK 10 feat points, they DONT have rank 4 passives/ spells.
Claiming, that CW is OP based on that ACT numbers is as valid, as claiming, that Mod 6 SW is OP dd, bc Mod 5 SW is OP dd.
The place where this analogy fails is claiming that mod 5 SW is OP, when it can just about do its intended job in PvE, and falls almost flat in PvP.
Doubly so with delicious irony of it being a CW player claiming so.
This is the simple truth. Poor op must be new here. Cws have carried entire parties of clueless pugs for ages through what once were considered difficult dungeons. Who do u think is going to carry ur placeholder toon through level70 dungeons?
/thread
i can carry with group with my offtank Gwf too!
But the loud majority use it only for its dps potential.
The place where this analogy fails is claiming that mod 5 SW is OP, when it can just about do its intended job in PvE, and falls almost flat in PvP.
Doubly so with delicious irony of it being a CW player claiming so.
Have you played the game?
Lol and Tiamat ACT parses are owned by Warlocks and TRs...
Have you played the game?
Lol and Tiamat ACT parses are owned by Warlocks and TRs...
Have you even logged in into preview? Cause I don't think you have, you simply post opinions that are based on live, and everyone else is talkign about mod 6.
What are you doing here?
Vaelynx and Vasdamas, Thank you so much for supporting me so far, I would run out of energy herding all the trolls by myself..
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I know this ACT post, but did you read this 'Lv 60 character scaled to 70, both are using perfect vorpal, 17k GS'. They are NOT lvl 70, they LACK 10 feat points, they DONT have rank 4 passives/ spells.
Claiming, that CW is OP based on that ACT numbers is as valid, as claiming, that Mod 6 SW is OP dd, bc Mod 5 SW is OP dd.
And you completely ignored my analysis about how wizard will be beefed up at lv 70 because of spell twisting or icy veins which both give a really big boost to DPS, and rank 4 chilling presence which is amazing too.
what do warlocks get from 60 to 70? not much, if anything dark revelry the temptation feat is 20% power and speed for your group, thats nothing compared to what I just mentionned for wizards.
The scaling to lv 70 uses the lv 70 stat lines, have you logged into preview or are you making stuff up? If anything both classes will have more powerful stats at 70 from better gear.
If you got a better test to show us, I'm eager to see it. Otherwise you sound to me like 'I like my wizard, so my wizard should be on top, don't nerf my class I like stronger than everyone' kinda of defending argument. Because you completely ignored my parsing and are making false claims to try to prove them wrong, when they're completely valid.
cheers :cool:
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Top Tankiness: Incorrect. Only with Shield on Tab, and then it's only one hit's worth of mitigation and on top of that, the CW loses a great deal of CC and damage ability by having to put Shield on Tab. Contrast this with other classes (GF, OP), that have constantly high tankiness without having to make these other tradeoffs.
......
I just laugh at some comments! do u have a GF? i answer NO.
lets see yes a GF with shield up its the best TANK so far (we all agree), now with shield down its just like any other class, all classes get around 100k HP at lv 70, since HP its the 2nd if not the 1st survival skill/status GF loses to other class there.
DR for what i see most classes will be in the 20-30% GF will be 35-40% so 10% less dmg sound good till u thing most classes will have 1-2 adds/mobs on them GF will have 10 or more, so it loses.
Life steal + crit + dmg to heal buy doing dmg u need all that life steal all classes can get similar %, crit sorry GF dont get near any class Dmg worst in game and buy far AoE skill almost none, even if we crit and proc life steal as ofthen as other class since now u get heal for the full dps u do GF will never get 100k HP cuz we can do 100K dmg even less if u are pure tank.
CW shield on tab vs GF Block block win just there, and dont complain about losing 1 skill slot when u have 1st 1 more than all other classes so u stay with the same 3 as every1 + the DR others dont get, and dont try to compare it with GF block, cuz u lose all reason when u say u lose an encounter if u dont know let me say that when GF block loses all and by all i mean all encounter u cant use a since encounter so no dps no control no heal + if that is not enough let me just say that not even a healing potion a GF can take while block, now tell me how 10k from a potion compares to the 30k+++ a GF will most times take when dropping block to take a potion or try buff the party even to mark a add/mob u need to drop the shield.
On topic
Rules should be the same on all classes when the skill have the same base/ability, if its an over time dmg that is proc from an encounter/feat or all can crit or none can, so deep gash/storm spell/ sun burst all should have crit chance or none have it. same should applies to dailies GF Supremacy of steel while on dont let the GF build AP other dailies that are time based do.
More than the dmg problem for balance or heal feat and from a balance point of view there 2 things that should be change, DR and HP dps/controller class and defender classes.
Defender should and must have at least 2x the DR of any DPS class, same goes for HP.
when dps and defender classes have 100k HP, and the deference on DR its just 15% this mean Defender can only take 15% more dmg than a dps before it dies. so a DPS class dies with 2 Hits a Tank with 3 we can still say a Tank last longer and can take more hits, but when we expect a tank to have 3 or 4 times more adds/mobs attacking them it means it dies faster so its unbalance.
i dont mind and never will if a DPS class can do 4 or 5 times my dmg i find it normal I dont find normal that i can not take 4 or 5 times more dmg than it before I am dead.
I just laugh at some comments! do u have a GF? i answer NO.
lets see yes a GF with shield up its the best TANK so far (we all agree), now with shield down its just like any other class, all classes get around 100k HP at lv 70, since HP its the 2nd if not the 1st survival skill/status GF loses to other class there.
DR for what i see most classes will be in the 20-30% GF will be 35-40% so 10% less dmg sound good till u thing most classes will have 1-2 adds/mobs on them GF will have 10 or more, so it loses.
Life steal + crit + dmg to heal buy doing dmg u need all that life steal all classes can get similar %, crit sorry GF dont get near any class Dmg worst in game and buy far AoE skill almost none, even if we crit and proc life steal as ofthen as other class since now u get heal for the full dps u do GF will never get 100k HP cuz we can do 100K dmg even less if u are pure tank.
CW shield on tab vs GF Block block win just there, and dont complain about losing 1 skill slot when u have 1st 1 more than all other classes so u stay with the same 3 as every1 + the DR others dont get, and dont try to compare it with GF block, cuz u lose all reason when u say u lose an encounter if u dont know let me say that when GF block loses all and by all i mean all encounter u cant use a since encounter so no dps no control no heal + if that is not enough let me just say that not even a healing potion a GF can take while block, now tell me how 10k from a potion compares to the 30k+++ a GF will most times take when dropping block to take a potion or try buff the party even to mark a add/mob u need to drop the shield.
On topic
Rules should be the same on all classes when the skill have the same base/ability, if its an over time dmg that is proc from an encounter/feat or all can crit or none can, so deep gash/storm spell/ sun burst all should have crit chance or none have it. same should applies to dailies GF Supremacy of steel while on dont let the GF build AP other dailies that are time based do.
More than the dmg problem for balance or heal feat and from a balance point of view there 2 things that should be change, DR and HP dps/controller class and defender classes.
Defender should and must have at least 2x the DR of any DPS class, same goes for HP.
when dps and defender classes have 100k HP, and the deference on DR its just 15% this mean Defender can only take 15% more dmg than a dps before it dies. so a DPS class dies with 2 Hits a Tank with 3 we can still say a Tank last longer and can take more hits, but when we expect a tank to have 3 or 4 times more adds/mobs attacking them it means it dies faster so its unbalance.
i dont mind and never will if a DPS class can do 4 or 5 times my dmg i find it normal I dont find normal that i can not take 4 or 5 times more dmg than it before I am dead.
Wee need DEV like him!!
0
fr3akout3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 72
OMG english is not my first language, but the problem is, what YOU wrote, not what I understand. You said:
'Running all maxed up TR, GWF & CW. CW outperforms in PVE any way.. 30-50% more dps....'
Are you talking about Mod 6? Concidering your NEW post, I would assume. You might have added a 'on preview' or in Mod 6, but hey, YOU knew, what you wanted to say...
Next sentence: '...Mod 6 CW all rounder better than any class.' Well, I think, I must be a little bit slow, bc I did not understand, that THIS implements, that the FIRST sentence was clearly a statement concerning Mod 6, because I should have seen the logical context of CW outdpsing TR and GWF = better than ANY class.
I DID play on preview, I DID NOT start some 'nerf post' with flawed ACT data, I said, that we need SOLID data, we dont have. IF someone asks for a change HE has to back up his claims, NOT the other way around.
BTW, concidering the ACT logs I HAVE seen GWF did the most dmg in group fights, but no one started a nerf MOD 6 GWF post, bc GWF needs some love and nobody can really predict, what will go live in a few weeks.
You just said that I did mention MOD 6 so what are you even talking about? I do have a shovel..
I am sorry that you can not comprehend the situation or that maybe your cw feats and skill aren't above the average.
I can see your frustration trying to defend the class because you love the CW, however you do not have any solid evidence yourself and it's clear to see that in all your posts you are defending the class instead of thinking about the bigger picture.
I even said tone down or buff other classes which is balancing.
We should love to play ALL Classes evenly so maybe download preview.
kind regards
0
hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
edited March 2015
You need to run your ACT in Dungeons, Dummies are not a good measurement end game.
Also, need to say what builds they are...There is a feat that usually only PvP CWs use, that gives 30% more Single target Damage, but they do 30% less AOE Damage. What gear do they have? Some gears give major DPS advantages.
Also if you are using a Thaum build, it will have some higher single target damage if you are only using single target spells...but...a CW in most new content, can't slot single target spells. And a Thaum won't have the healing capstone. Having to put Shield on tab is huge, not just to the DPS of CW...but to the control of mobs which effects the whole group, and keeps them alive longer, so they can do more DPS.
While a cw can be all 3 things on paper, in the dungeons, where sub bosses are hitting for 600K, they can't.
I have a pvp cw with single target focus, that will get top DPS slots in some Epic dungeons with pugs, simply, because I can survive the longest, and continuously cast and not have to worry about staying alive because I have much higher HP. In experienced parties, I am never near the top.
The new content the damage is brutal, no one's HP is going to be high enough...that to me is what needs to be looked at first, and then the actual spells that we will be using in PVE.
Mod 6 CW in it current state outperforms any class atm.
CW has:
Highest dmg ingame on top of that the damage is coming from passive procs that can crit also the class is secondary striker means the damage should not be on top.
CW can also buff and HEAL the party, the healing ability of a class thats not supposed to be healer should never make it to live.
Has highest DR ingame with tabbed shield yes a class that can dodge have best DR in mod 6 which gives them better survaviblity than a defender type class, even thou its a ranged type class so can deal huge dmg w,o much risk.
So pretty much mod 6 CW is all in one class and something has to be done about it, when you give one class ability of other classes you get serious balance issues.
lets keep on track.
TR does top damage (look at leaderboard)
DPS DC and HR outperform CW also
heals are a proc off a proc and people are just got too big chaotic growth hardons for no reason. every class buffs the party. CW have minor heal in dnd even though this is nothing like a DnD game (there is no chaotic growth spell in dnd nor most of the spells an abilities of any class are in DnD
tabbed shield makes us lose more than 1/4 (>25%) DPS in the loss of the 1 of our 4 spells (TABBED being the best)
teribad you are a GF right? dont worry youll be OP next mod. also fix ya build and youll be OP now
nerf TR etc not a class that is like 5th on the leaderboard scrab
A CW cannot have top single-target DPS AND top control AND top tankiness AND top healing ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
That is what the CW haters refuse to recognize.
CWs are versatile enough to accommodate all of these different roles, at different times and with different feat selections. But at no time can a single CW be all things simultaneously.
since i don´t own a CW.....
Why does CW have 4 encounters? What is the reason?
Why is it obviuosly the class that gets most attention in game all time in case of damage, mitigationbuffs, CC´s?
looks like someone really loves this class, no other explanation, so we can discuss, but nothing will change i guess
not worth to go on arguing in that case
this game realy is a mess, no fixes ot rebalancing in current mods (they do not have the time pretending working on next mod) all is delayed on next mod patching one shi.t over the next
so its obviuos whats going to happen in mod 6: have fun with an unbalanced new(old) game and wait for mod 7 that tries to bring things a bit back in line, but... hmmm, we need an new class, so sry forget the fixes we got important things to develop, until than , have fun with a product that is completely broken and partly unplayable
Have you even logged in into preview? Cause I don't think you have, you simply post opinions that are based on live, and everyone else is talkign about mod 6.
What are you doing here?
Vaelynx and Vasdamas, Thank you so much for supporting me so far, I would run out of energy herding all the trolls by myself..
To be fair to him, I have said that mod 5 SW PvE is not OP... but then, I stand by this, especially since what, his argument rests on better SW performance in what, a single endgame content location - if the classes are distinct, one would expect such abnormalities to appear as a locale might play up to a class's strengths. Of course, his stance seems to be that the only class allowed to dominate anything anywhere is CW.
In addition, it is treated as some tacit reason that makes the awful SW nerf OK, but somehow a far more flagrant superiority of CWs is no reason to nerf them at all, for a standard that's not only double but separated at birth.
A CW cannot have top single-target DPS AND top control AND top tankiness AND top healing ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
That is what the CW haters refuse to recognize.
CWs are versatile enough to accommodate all of these different roles, at different times and with different feat selections. But at no time can a single CW be all things simultaneously.
Wow, I can agree with you for once
Also: Wow, so much hate everywhere. I'm with asterotg - get your facts straight and relax :-)
I'll throw this in. Denvald's test looked wrong to me. My very decked out CW can't do that kind of single-target damage on live. I've done many, many tests on AoE DPS and Single target DPS. So I was quite skeptical.
So I took my level 70 CW in ultra-pimped out gear and had him to a single target DPS test with what I suspect is the same Renegade build and same spells Denval used. Here are my results:
51k DPS. Just about the same thing he got.
That is pretty crazy single-target DPS. Heck, it'd be pretty crazy AoE DPS. It's certainly much, much better than anything I can do with Thaumaturge or Oppressor. The incredibly high Crit chance + Vorpal + 30% damage from Renegade Capsone + Chilling Presence is pretty terrifying combination on the Preview server. This may need to be looked at. It's not just the level scaling.
There, boom. Stop trying, that argument is gettin' old. Gotta thank abaddon for testing that one for me :cool:
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
As a High End CW that was a high end GWF i will say that you guys will get us nerfed again. Then what? You will cry that HR/DC/GWF/SW/OP/TR/??? is Overpowered and needs a nerf. Then they nerf that class to death, then it will be OMG someone else is overpowered now. Stop your whining, CWs got every single encounter nerfed for mod 4, some of us became crazy strong because we respeced to a new feat tree. Are you going to be crying when we find a way to do again if we were to be nerfed again? I could out dps most of the PUG's i see with my at wills but its my fault/toons fault that most of them dont know how to play their character. How many people right now using Repel and Ice storm in Tiamat when those are obviously horrible choices.
Waaaahhhh CWs have 4 encounter powers, HR's get 6.
Waaahhhh CWs are to difficult to catch, Perma Stealth rouges.(which always come running for my ice terrain with 15 mobs)
Cant say anything about GWF's you guys have been screwed for a while, that is why i am a CW.
TLDR learn to play your class, if you think we are too OP then ask for your class to be fixed instead of crying about mine. I changed to a CW from GWF after Deep Gash was nerfed, then they nerfed the hell out of CW, all these were based off of PVP whiners that were running around in blues crying about not being able to beat top end PVPers.
As a High End CW that was a high end GWF i will say that you guys will get us nerfed again. Then what? You will cry that HR/DC/GWF/SW/OP/TR/??? is Overpowered and needs a nerf. Then they nerf that class to death, then it will be OMG someone else is overpowered now. Stop your whining, CWs got every single encounter nerfed for mod 4, some of us became crazy strong because we respeced to a new feat tree. Are you going to be crying when we find a way to do again if we were to be nerfed again? I could out dps most of the PUG's i see with my at wills but its my fault/toons fault that most of them dont know how to play their character. How many people right now using Repel and Ice storm in Tiamat when those are obviously horrible choices.
Waaaahhhh CWs have 4 encounter powers, HR's get 6.
Waaahhhh CWs are to difficult to catch, Perma Stealth rouges.(which always come running for my ice terrain with 15 mobs)
Cant say anything about GWF's you guys have been screwed for a while, that is why i am a CW.
TLDR learn to play your class, if you think we are too OP then ask for your class to be fixed instead of crying about mine. I changed to a CW from GWF after Deep Gash was nerfed, then they nerfed the hell out of CW, all these were based off of PVP whiners that were running around in blues crying about not being able to beat top end PVPers.
/rant off
No, when the problematic wizard DPS gets returned to a normal level of DPS we'll be happy. The thing is wizards were never nerfed, you just said it yourself, they replaced something by something equally or more powerful.
What we're asking for is equity and balance, sure you understand that right? The problem at hand is the CW DPS do everything better than the other strikers.
Buff DPS Control and chaotic growth (while unreliable it's still there and will help the group in a way)
And yes I know what your next post is, 'but omgerd dps wizard doesn't control alot' yeah im pretty sure that 'not alot' is better than NOTHING AT ALL.
Try playing a pure striker see how that goes.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Comments
Well, HE claimed, that CW outdpsed GWF by 30-50%, I state, that GWF did MORE dmg and you try to bash me for that, really?
I did NOT ask for a nerf, I did NOT post FALSE or FLAWED ACT numbers, but asked for solid data, to back up their claims of CW greatness in Mod 6.
But hey, sorry, claim whatever you want, dont bother with reality. I play CW, so if I say, that it is false, that CW does more dmg than GWF on preview, just bc it is so, the facts dont matter, bc GWF is a striker class.
BTW I could not care less, if GWF outperforms CW or the other way around. My GWF has better equip and more epic companions, than my CW. I just hate the fact that ppl CLAIM something without SOLID proof, behave, as if they stated FACTS and DEMAND proof, that their claims are wrong.
In general I don't feel that any class should always be the top damage in all situations but that it should vary. The pure offense glass cannon gwf certainly has the right to land there, though. A tank speced GWF less so.
WTB Class Reroll please
There really isnt a tank spec on the GWF class, its a total misnomer, and its even more so for mod 6. A sents damage is way too low, considering how really pathetic they are damage reduction, survival. They are no where near a GF even specced for it, not even close to a paladin really.
But really thats another topic.
Cws are fine, if you want to move some damage off the feat and give me back my direct damage through shard again, Im ok with that as well.
Im in agreement that the SW should have some encounters buffed, but I thought at the start of playing that class, I got mine the AD set, got it through all campaigns and 3rd boon of WoD and sat it after that, TT was the only thing that made the class good imo, but I never tried the new path, so maybe that was ok.
Solide proof? Well, how about ACT numbers of LVL 70 players, not lvl 60, for starters, or ACT numbers of group performance and/or solo performance of lvl 70 players in dungeons or running solo?
HE DEMANDS a nerf, HE needs to back up his claims, not the other way around.
Colorful words dont transmute claims to truth or change the burden of proof.
WTB Class Reroll please
I know this ACT post, but did you read this 'Lv 60 character scaled to 70, both are using perfect vorpal, 17k GS'. They are NOT lvl 70, they LACK 10 feat points, they DONT have rank 4 passives/ spells.
Claiming, that CW is OP based on that ACT numbers is as valid, as claiming, that Mod 6 SW is OP dd, bc Mod 5 SW is OP dd.
The place where this analogy fails is claiming that mod 5 SW is OP, when it can just about do its intended job in PvE, and falls almost flat in PvP.
Doubly so with delicious irony of it being a CW player claiming so.
i can carry with group with my offtank Gwf too!
But the loud majority use it only for its dps potential.
Have you played the game?
Lol and Tiamat ACT parses are owned by Warlocks and TRs...
Have you even logged in into preview? Cause I don't think you have, you simply post opinions that are based on live, and everyone else is talkign about mod 6.
What are you doing here?
Vaelynx and Vasdamas, Thank you so much for supporting me so far, I would run out of energy herding all the trolls by myself..
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
And you completely ignored my analysis about how wizard will be beefed up at lv 70 because of spell twisting or icy veins which both give a really big boost to DPS, and rank 4 chilling presence which is amazing too.
what do warlocks get from 60 to 70? not much, if anything dark revelry the temptation feat is 20% power and speed for your group, thats nothing compared to what I just mentionned for wizards.
The scaling to lv 70 uses the lv 70 stat lines, have you logged into preview or are you making stuff up? If anything both classes will have more powerful stats at 70 from better gear.
If you got a better test to show us, I'm eager to see it. Otherwise you sound to me like 'I like my wizard, so my wizard should be on top, don't nerf my class I like stronger than everyone' kinda of defending argument. Because you completely ignored my parsing and are making false claims to try to prove them wrong, when they're completely valid.
cheers :cool:
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
I just laugh at some comments! do u have a GF? i answer NO.
lets see yes a GF with shield up its the best TANK so far (we all agree), now with shield down its just like any other class, all classes get around 100k HP at lv 70, since HP its the 2nd if not the 1st survival skill/status GF loses to other class there.
DR for what i see most classes will be in the 20-30% GF will be 35-40% so 10% less dmg sound good till u thing most classes will have 1-2 adds/mobs on them GF will have 10 or more, so it loses.
Life steal + crit + dmg to heal buy doing dmg u need all that life steal all classes can get similar %, crit sorry GF dont get near any class Dmg worst in game and buy far AoE skill almost none, even if we crit and proc life steal as ofthen as other class since now u get heal for the full dps u do GF will never get 100k HP cuz we can do 100K dmg even less if u are pure tank.
CW shield on tab vs GF Block block win just there, and dont complain about losing 1 skill slot when u have 1st 1 more than all other classes so u stay with the same 3 as every1 + the DR others dont get, and dont try to compare it with GF block, cuz u lose all reason when u say u lose an encounter if u dont know let me say that when GF block loses all and by all i mean all encounter u cant use a since encounter so no dps no control no heal + if that is not enough let me just say that not even a healing potion a GF can take while block, now tell me how 10k from a potion compares to the 30k+++ a GF will most times take when dropping block to take a potion or try buff the party even to mark a add/mob u need to drop the shield.
On topic
Rules should be the same on all classes when the skill have the same base/ability, if its an over time dmg that is proc from an encounter/feat or all can crit or none can, so deep gash/storm spell/ sun burst all should have crit chance or none have it. same should applies to dailies GF Supremacy of steel while on dont let the GF build AP other dailies that are time based do.
More than the dmg problem for balance or heal feat and from a balance point of view there 2 things that should be change, DR and HP dps/controller class and defender classes.
Defender should and must have at least 2x the DR of any DPS class, same goes for HP.
when dps and defender classes have 100k HP, and the deference on DR its just 15% this mean Defender can only take 15% more dmg than a dps before it dies. so a DPS class dies with 2 Hits a Tank with 3 we can still say a Tank last longer and can take more hits, but when we expect a tank to have 3 or 4 times more adds/mobs attacking them it means it dies faster so its unbalance.
i dont mind and never will if a DPS class can do 4 or 5 times my dmg i find it normal I dont find normal that i can not take 4 or 5 times more dmg than it before I am dead.
Wee need DEV like him!!
You just said that I did mention MOD 6 so what are you even talking about? I do have a shovel..
I am sorry that you can not comprehend the situation or that maybe your cw feats and skill aren't above the average.
I can see your frustration trying to defend the class because you love the CW, however you do not have any solid evidence yourself and it's clear to see that in all your posts you are defending the class instead of thinking about the bigger picture.
I even said tone down or buff other classes which is balancing.
We should love to play ALL Classes evenly so maybe download preview.
kind regards
Also, need to say what builds they are...There is a feat that usually only PvP CWs use, that gives 30% more Single target Damage, but they do 30% less AOE Damage. What gear do they have? Some gears give major DPS advantages.
Also if you are using a Thaum build, it will have some higher single target damage if you are only using single target spells...but...a CW in most new content, can't slot single target spells. And a Thaum won't have the healing capstone. Having to put Shield on tab is huge, not just to the DPS of CW...but to the control of mobs which effects the whole group, and keeps them alive longer, so they can do more DPS.
While a cw can be all 3 things on paper, in the dungeons, where sub bosses are hitting for 600K, they can't.
I have a pvp cw with single target focus, that will get top DPS slots in some Epic dungeons with pugs, simply, because I can survive the longest, and continuously cast and not have to worry about staying alive because I have much higher HP. In experienced parties, I am never near the top.
The new content the damage is brutal, no one's HP is going to be high enough...that to me is what needs to be looked at first, and then the actual spells that we will be using in PVE.
lets keep on track.
TR does top damage (look at leaderboard)
DPS DC and HR outperform CW also
heals are a proc off a proc and people are just got too big chaotic growth hardons for no reason. every class buffs the party. CW have minor heal in dnd even though this is nothing like a DnD game (there is no chaotic growth spell in dnd nor most of the spells an abilities of any class are in DnD
tabbed shield makes us lose more than 1/4 (>25%) DPS in the loss of the 1 of our 4 spells (TABBED being the best)
teribad you are a GF right? dont worry youll be OP next mod. also fix ya build and youll be OP now
nerf TR etc not a class that is like 5th on the leaderboard scrab
That is what the CW haters refuse to recognize.
CWs are versatile enough to accommodate all of these different roles, at different times and with different feat selections. But at no time can a single CW be all things simultaneously.
Why does CW have 4 encounters? What is the reason?
Why is it obviuosly the class that gets most attention in game all time in case of damage, mitigationbuffs, CC´s?
looks like someone really loves this class, no other explanation, so we can discuss, but nothing will change i guess
not worth to go on arguing in that case
this game realy is a mess, no fixes ot rebalancing in current mods (they do not have the time pretending working on next mod) all is delayed on next mod patching one shi.t over the next
so its obviuos whats going to happen in mod 6: have fun with an unbalanced new(old) game and wait for mod 7 that tries to bring things a bit back in line, but... hmmm, we need an new class, so sry forget the fixes we got important things to develop, until than , have fun with a product that is completely broken and partly unplayable
Cause other classes have powerfull mechanisms(curse, unstopable, stealth, aggro) while CWs has 1 extra encounter to compensate it somewhat.
ONE guy did crunch some ACT numbers with lvl 60 CW and SW on dummies and you conclusion is:
LVL 70 CW does twice the dmg of lvl 70 SW.
You ignore, that:
1. The chars are lvl 60, so they got another scaling, than real lvl 70 chars.
2. They lack 10 feat points.
3. They lack 4th power points.
4. Dummies have another DR than mobs.
5. The fight is static, not compareable to real solo play.
6. Ignoring group synergies and effects of group fights.
7. Ignoring, that in actual lvl 70 group ACT GWF outdpsed CW and other classes by miles.
Keep claiming, that facts dont matter, ignorance is bliss.
To be fair to him, I have said that mod 5 SW PvE is not OP... but then, I stand by this, especially since what, his argument rests on better SW performance in what, a single endgame content location - if the classes are distinct, one would expect such abnormalities to appear as a locale might play up to a class's strengths. Of course, his stance seems to be that the only class allowed to dominate anything anywhere is CW.
In addition, it is treated as some tacit reason that makes the awful SW nerf OK, but somehow a far more flagrant superiority of CWs is no reason to nerf them at all, for a standard that's not only double but separated at birth.
Wow, I can agree with you for once
Also: Wow, so much hate everywhere. I'm with asterotg - get your facts straight and relax :-)
There, boom. Stop trying, that argument is gettin' old. Gotta thank abaddon for testing that one for me :cool:
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Waaaahhhh CWs have 4 encounter powers, HR's get 6.
Waaahhhh CWs are to difficult to catch, Perma Stealth rouges.(which always come running for my ice terrain with 15 mobs)
Cant say anything about GWF's you guys have been screwed for a while, that is why i am a CW.
TLDR learn to play your class, if you think we are too OP then ask for your class to be fixed instead of crying about mine. I changed to a CW from GWF after Deep Gash was nerfed, then they nerfed the hell out of CW, all these were based off of PVP whiners that were running around in blues crying about not being able to beat top end PVPers.
/rant off
No, when the problematic wizard DPS gets returned to a normal level of DPS we'll be happy. The thing is wizards were never nerfed, you just said it yourself, they replaced something by something equally or more powerful.
What we're asking for is equity and balance, sure you understand that right? The problem at hand is the CW DPS do everything better than the other strikers.
Buff DPS Control and chaotic growth (while unreliable it's still there and will help the group in a way)
And yes I know what your next post is, 'but omgerd dps wizard doesn't control alot' yeah im pretty sure that 'not alot' is better than NOTHING AT ALL.
Try playing a pure striker see how that goes.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread