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Module 6! Will Guardian Fighters die off?

isaintify1isaintify1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 414 Arc User
edited April 2015 in The Militia Barracks
I can see a huge decline in Guardian Fighters when Module 6 comes out. Does this mean the end of the GF's?! Probably not at all, however I know that people who do not have a Guardian Fighter as a Main are more likely to make a Paladin now than a Guardian Fighter. What are other peoples opinion on this?
Post edited by isaintify1 on
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Comments

  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    What's a GF, oh right that class with no dps in a dps centric game.
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    isaintify1 wrote: »
    I can see a huge decline in Guardian Fighters when Module 6 comes out. Does this mean the end of the GF's?! Probably not at all, however I know that people who do not have a Guardian Fighter as a Main are more likely to make a Paladin now than a Guardian Fighter. What are other peoples opinion on this?

    Would you choose the OP class (Oathbound Paladin) or GF (Goofy Fighter)? :D
    icydrake%20avatar2_zpsg7rp0xti.jpg

    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • sprawlfxsprawlfx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mine will not die off. i find the notion amusing. he will be joined by a shiny new paladin, though..
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    sprawlfx wrote: »
    mine will not die off. i find the notion amusing. he will be joined by a shiny new paladin, though..

    Pretty much this. For me, certainly, but also for a lot of people. Thread title is silly. People (new-comers to the game) who love melee are still going to pick the GF, GWF, and some may go OP. The difference comes down to the theme of the class. Since everyone gets three character slots (two for signing-up and the third if they buy $5 worth of Zen) I can see melee-lovers taking all three. Existing players will create one because SHINY-NEW and no other reason. Hell I had wished for a Warlock at Beta, when they finally released it: meh. I like Wizard better than Warlock (and in table-top I feel vice-versa).

    But the short version of my comment: No. GF will always be GF, anything that happens to it won't be because of OP by much if at all.
  • sprawlfxsprawlfx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    ...Existing players will create one because SHINY-NEW and no other reason. ..

    not so for me. my first choice was a mace wielding cleric.. but it was not offered. my second choice was the standard 'square headed sword swinger' (quoted from some barely remembered article in Dragon Mag way back when) which would fall somewhere between GF and GWF, but is neither. i reckon with the paladin I will get closer to both of those things than what I currently have. So I am actually looking forward to it, in a biggish way. But I still love my GFs as well as my other chars. I put a lot into each of them, and will not be setting them aside.

    Sorry for my caps situ. i broke my other KB tonight, and had to revert to one I broke before... until I can mount up and go get another...
  • mfgamesysmfgamesys Member Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I have only played gf as my main and will continue to do so. And yes I will make an op alt(funny how the acronym suggests something lol).
    Main-Lothor Syralth Guardian Fighter
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mfgamesys wrote: »
    I have only played gf as my main and will continue to do so. And yes I will make an op alt(funny how the acronym suggests something lol).

    Responding to the OP of OP are OP threads will be fun.
  • todesfaelletodesfaelle Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Depends. I can foresee the OB Paladin having 3 specific paragon feat trees, one for a Striker role, one for Defender role, and one for a Leader role. Or at least that's how I would have done it if I were a dev, because it's the logical way to do a Paladin which is known to have a mishmash of roles.

    For tanking, I doubt the OBP would be better than the GF because keep in mind that the GF has inherent tanking bonuses such as 200% increased threat gain as compared to other classes, as well as an encounter that hard taunts 20 enemies all at once. While we still do not know how the OBP would play as a defender, it's easy to foresee the OBP playing more like a GWF... that's like a Cleric, with a tiny bit of GF. IDK, or at least that's how I'm envisioning the OBP would be knowing the 4e Paladin.
  • vinceent1vinceent1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    not abandon mine for sure, there will always be pvp to play with him

    but can be hard take him into pve group content, paladin will shine for sure, can be much more usefull there. try him no doubt
  • oclosoclos Member Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I Hope not. I made one practically during the last day of the winter event. I'd hate to see it underutilized so soon after I made it.
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited January 2015
    Seeing how Oathbound Paladins in D&D are barely similar to Guardian Fighters, I don't see them fulfilling the same roles. If they're like D&D Oathbound Paladins, then there's no way they will be able to hold aggro and tank like GF. We don't even know if our OP's will be dual wield, sword and shield, or two hander, as all of these are possible in D&D Oathbound Paladins.

    I think what will happen is players will look to have both GFs and OPs in their parties and looks like (from the PnP Data) they compliment each other very well. If anything, OPs will take the place of a Devoted Cleric in content that doesn't need the full healing support of a DC.


    Oathbound: The Paladin Guide
  • killernorekillernore Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    zebular wrote: »
    Seeing how Oathbound Paladins in D&D are barely similar to Guardian Fighters, I don't see them fulfilling the same roles. If they're like D&D Oathbound Paladins, then there's no way they will be able to hold aggro and tank like GF. We don't even know if our OP's will be dual wield, sword and shield, or two hander, as all of these are possible in D&D Oathbound Paladins.

    I think what will happen is players will look to have both GFs and OPs in their parties and looks like (from the PnP Data) they compliment each other very well. If anything, OPs will take the place of a Devoted Cleric in content that doesn't need the full healing support of a DC.


    Oathbound: The Paladin Guide

    sooo .. we need a tank class for one game focus in dps for? if GF was dont die now ... is zombie! =D
  • oclosoclos Member Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Let's not try to find the negative aspect in everything, especially before actually seeing how something is being implemented, shall we?
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited January 2015
    killernore wrote: »
    sooo .. we need a tank class for one game focus in dps for? if GF was dont die now ... is zombie! =D
    Oathbound Paladins in PnP D&D are not tanks. They've even been stated that they can easily become overwhelmed by mobs in PnP D&D. They are more like a support class in PnP D&D mechanics and a "Leader" in terms of Party Make-up/RP/Personality. How this will be interpreted into Neverwinter, we have yet to see. So, let's not digress into baseless speculation.
  • sprawlfxsprawlfx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Both the players and devs need to remember that the various classes exist as much for flavor of RP as they do for utility of play. that cuts both ways.. in a forgiving group of table top gamers, the character of questionable contribution is going to be affectionately teased but bolstered. In a public game comprised of people who are all out of easy range, those same lovable mates are going to be abused. the devs need to find a way around that. it is not an easy task.

    Now Playing: Cro Magnon - Album: Bull? - Track: Poeskin
  • emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    charononus wrote: »
    What's a GF, oh right that class with no dps in a dps centric game.

    True lol, but then again the GF has to 'die' before they roll the Paladin

    PS: Looks like Im missing something. When was the Pala confirmed as incoming ?
    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    emilemo wrote: »
    True lol, but then again the GF has to 'die' before they roll the Paladin

    PS: Looks like Im missing something. When was the Pala confirmed as incoming ?

    Just today. In the mod6 announcement.
  • cheezewezzelcheezewezzel Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Because I'm always a little slow, I created my first GF yesterday, shortly before the Mod 6 paladin announcement.
    16334673275_11d5efd5d7.jpg
    He's a shorter, fatter version of myself. He had the same confused expression on this face while repeatedly dying in PvP earlier today.
  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 525 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I have played the GF since beta, through the time when the GF was so unwanted, you couldn't even beg guildies to take you on a dungeon other than the occassional kiting run in Frozen Heart. Since tanking is not really necessary, given the speed at which dpsers burn mobs, it is the buffing/debuffing aspect of the GF that is key to its survival in the new mod. If the paladin will buff/debuff the party to the same degree that the GF can AND give more damage AND give a little healing, then the GF will once again become the Holy Trinity pariah (mod 2 anyone??). And, if the paladin can buff/debuff the party without causing super lag (KV), then it will definitely squeeze out the GF.

    With all that said, I will create a paladin class, but my main will always be my GF. He is like the quiet, unwanted family member who just sits and waits. Eventually, he is wanted (eLoL), and sometimes op (right after mod 4...reflect/SoS AP gain in PvP...before nerf), but always understated. Go GFs!
    LEVIATHAN--19.3k Metallic Dragonborn Guardian Fighter Swordmaster Loadouts

    Guild--And the Imaginary Friends




  • ortzhyortzhy Member Posts: 1,103 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2015
    zebular wrote: »
    Oathbound Paladins in PnP D&D are not tanks. They've even been stated that they can easily become overwhelmed by mobs in PnP D&D. They are more like a support class in PnP D&D mechanics and a "Leader" in terms of Party Make-up/RP/Personality. How this will be interpreted into Neverwinter, we have yet to see. So, let's not digress into baseless speculation.

    umm, in the presentation they said that OP is going to be a tank/healer...:

    " These righteous fighters will be able embody both the healing and tanking paradigms that have made them so popular with Dungeons & Dragons players everywhere."
  • mfgamesysmfgamesys Member Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Either you play a GF or you don't.
    Main-Lothor Syralth Guardian Fighter
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited January 2015
    ortzhy wrote: »
    umm, in the presentation they said that OP is going to be a tank/healer...:

    " These righteous fighters will be able embody both the healing and tanking paradigms that have made them so popular with Dungeons & Dragons players everywhere."
    Aye, "ummm" I acknowledged that in another thread...: Sorry for forgetting to update here. Forgot I posted on that here too.

    zebular wrote: »
    alkemist80 wrote: »
    This is the tweet by Chris Meyer:

    "Cats out of the bag. Been working on paladin and level cap increase. TL; DR pally be healers or tanks, depending on paragon path."

    So it seems like it's going to be either one or the other and not both. Though I'm not quite sure about this choice for a new class unless they make the Holy Trinity necessary.
    Nice, thanks! Sounds then like one of the PP's will be sword and board and focusing more on buffing than healing. I can imagine such to be considered "tanky." However, when I think of a "Tank" though, I think of a normal fighter in full plate mail with a sword and shield who is able to draw in and hold down a good number of mobs and be able to thick it with help of friends, aka our current GF.
  • sprawlfxsprawlfx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    zebular wrote: »
    Aye, I acknowledged that in another thread...:

    Yeah to me that is sad. Paladins should be DPS-Healer/Blessers. With Vorpal Holy Avenger swords, and a summoned mount that fights for them if they fall. Not tanks. At all. Just my opinion based on our own games back when.
  • masterjewstarmasterjewstar Member Posts: 563
    edited January 2015
    paladin might replace gf in terms of people who hate gf but people who like gf will play both because i imagine that a GF DC and OBP will do amazing things.

    and really though paladin being a tank is probably gonna be kinda like being a gwf sentinel trying to hold aggro against a whole room of 40 mobs it works for about a second and then it doesnt. The difference is that a paladin can heal and not just himself and i seriously doubt they will be able to take half damage for everyone around them like the gf can either. it will also likely have protection spells that make it "like" a tank.

    definitely shouldnt just be heal/tank though needs to have power as well.
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited January 2015
    sprawlfx wrote: »
    Yeah to me that is sad. Paladins should be DPS-Healer/Blessers. With Vorpal Holy Avenger swords, and a summoned mount that fights for them if they fall. Not tanks. At all. Just my opinion based on our own games back when.
    Just remember, they won't be a tank unless you choose the Paragon Path that makes them a tank. Otherwise, they're a caster support class. Whether they will have melee capabilities as the caster PP, I do not know but I imagine they would. Half of my post got omitted above, I included a quote from the other thread.
  • sprawlfxsprawlfx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    zebular wrote: »
    Just remember, they won't be a tank unless you choose the Paragon Path that makes them a tank. Otherwise, they're a caster support class. Whether they will have melee capabilities as the caster PP, I do not know but I imagine they would. Half of my post got omitted above, I included a quote from the other thread.

    Rgr that. Caster support sounds ok, but they should do a fair bit of SMITING, too. =)
  • jimiticus4jimiticus4 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This post contributes nothing meaningful, but I still laughed out loud reading this:
    “I had an eleventh-level paladin (it took me years to advance those levels) whom I took on Expedition, and he got the Power Armor, which was the big thing to get in that module. But he also went a little power mad. On the next campaign we saw merchant caravans crossing the desert, and my character flew down and landed next to a merchant and tore off the guy's head.

    The DM informed me that I was not a paladin anymore.

    I said, "Oh, ****, I forgot. I'm lawful good!"

    DM: "Yeah, and the gods are angry. So you're not a paladin anymore. You can start again as anything you want, but that character's done."

    Eventually, we started to judge each other based on how our characters behaved. One DM seemed to believe we were too greedy. We wanted too much. We wanted our characters to be too strong. But, you know, within the culture of high school we were the weak puppies and were looking for power, albeit imagined. Well this one DM, Haskell, started using his dungeon mastering as a critique of that. He would tempt us with ways to get seemingly unlimited power (say, a poison with no saving throw) and then throw huge roadblocks in the way to keep us from achieving it. I may remembering wrong, but I think by the end we were using the game to express how we felt about each other.”

    -Stephen Colbert
    Er, I wanted a Druid class anyway…..
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited January 2015
    sprawlfx wrote: »
    Rgr that. Caster support sounds ok, but they should do a fair bit of SMITING, too. =)
    Indeed! I loved roleplaying a righteous paladin. I even played one once as an anti-paladin. That was fun. I still prefer to play them as a Virtuous or Righteous Paladin though.
  • tcarncetcarnce Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 976 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    does paladin get automated shield with blockrate ?
    otherwise not interested ;p
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