Regen is more useful than life steal for classes that aren't doing a ton of damage and spend a lot of time running around, like my tank and my healer.
My GF is in the tactician tree and spends the majority of a fight charging around, applying mark, smacking things with her shield, hitting ItF on cooldown, keeping KV up, and having guard up at least half the time. She'll use fighter's recovery for a big pull to stay alive, or villain's menace if it's not too bad to help keep the mobs on her. But she doesn't do a lot of damage, so lifesteal would mean not a lot of healing while regeneration means a bit of constant healing. Especially when I'm running around a lot, this is helpful. Think about the Hrimnir fight where the most common tactic is for the tank to kite all the adds. I don't get to do a lot of damage here. I mark things as they show up, charge into them, and hope my teammates aren't attacking them. I can get a fighter's recovery with a frontline surge in a couple times a minute, but the majority of what's keeping my tank from dying in this fight is my regeneration healing through the archers and my run speed being increased from ItF.
Same story on my healer. He's spec'd full on into healing and does almost no real damage to speak of other than what little comes from Divine Glow. Divine Glow, Bastion of Health, and Astral Shield for most things. He doesn't take a lot of damage to begin with, but when he does he relies on the set bonus from Miracle Healer and his regen (much lower than the tank's) to bring him back up. This means I'm not taking heals off the tank to heal myself.
This thread has shown me that a lot of people here seem to think that they know what's best and if someone else doesn't do it that way then this person must be wrong and stupid. The game provides a large variety of ways to play it and many different ways are viable ways to play.
Iam a gf and life steal it my best friend 10% 10% life steal and i get more hp form life steal than regeneration! simple 50k HP when iam at 50% hp i get 2.5k every 3 sec lets say 15 sec 2.5 then 2 then 1.7 them 1.2k then then 1k = 8k hp +/-, now Life steal i do ET 12-20 targets 3-4k dmg each = 40-80k dmg = 4-8k HP (10%LS) with 3xLS boon 12k-24k if the ET crit its even more HP just 1 skill 15% dmg deflect to target LS stab LS aoe dailly LS. as life steal keep my HP full or close to it regeneration doesnt heal that much.
FH use KV; ITF; ET, shield talent and 15% deflect from block LS keep u alive and KV even give u 20% dmg resistance if your party have decent aoe dmg with KV dmg buff u do the boss and adds ata same time just blocking and near boss.
ofc with low aoe dmg in party u end have o move more. but u dont have to run arround with adds, its us willing to do that that make the party lazy its easy to just kill the boss while the gf works hard with adds, well remove add and gf can solo the boss also.
same with KV its a skill to help not a skill to make party lazy, every time iam on a party with KV and the rest dont even try to avoid reds i just turn it off let the guy die and then i tell him u try to avoid reds i set it on if u dont even try iam not going to die for u.
OMG seriously? You do not kick low GS people from any group, for any reason other than outright breaking the party rules (e.g. rolling need on epics). If you don't want to risk teaming up with low GS pugs, then don't pug. When you pug, you are committing yourself to be a part of a team not of your own choosing, and you have to accept that and work with your team as best you can.
Other players are people too. The low GS player on your team does not exist to serve YOU. You and the other 4 members of your team are TEAMMATES and you are supposed to WORK TOGETHER to conquer the dungeon/skirmish/etc. If your TEAM cannot do it, then it is the TEAM'S fault. Don't scapegoat the low GS guy. And yes, in the specific example of ESOT, it is possible for any experienced and geared player of any class to solo the last boss once the drakes have been cleared. If you can't do that, then that is your fault. If you are UNWILLING to do that, and go for the lame option of just kicking the low GS guy instead so that you don't have to DO YOUR JOB, then that is frankly despicable.
If your time is limited and you cannot afford endless attempts on the boss - which is perfectly understandable - then YOU leave the team. Because at that point, it is YOUR time limitations that is preventing another attempt with the team, this one possibly successful, and the other members of your team, who presumably aren't experiencing such strict time limitations, don't have to suffer because of your limitation.
I can't believe some of the behavior that people justify around here. Do you do this sort of thing in real life? If you are in a hurry at the market, do you shove people out of the cashier's line so that you can get to the front of the line ahead of everyone else? Because that is basically what you are doing when you kick low GS people out of your party when you place YOURSELF as more important than anyone else on the planet.
I'm not sure if it's because of the aspects of this game or what it is really, but this MMO definitely does have one of the most toxic communities I've ever seen in such a game, specifically in the random pugs or /lfg channel. For whatever reason there's tons of constant bickering and resentment and greediness and it's just really disgusting to see. I've learned to just avoid them like the spellplague, as much as I can anyway. Sometimes it's hard to get a group together, but doing guild runs or putting a group together in /legit is BY FAR the best way to have fun with the content. Pugging is just asking to have a bad time, and it's almost never the low GS people that are going to give you that bad time but rather the elitist jerks that are going to spend the entire time complaining and blaming everyone else for whatever they think is going wrong instead of working together to overcome the challenges. I tend to think that most of those people are there because no guild or the legit channel would tolerate them anymore.
Iam a gf and life steal it my best friend 10% 10% life steal and i get more hp form life steal than regeneration! simple 50k HP when iam at 50% hp i get 2.5k every 3 sec lets say 15 sec 2.5 then 2 then 1.7 them 1.2k then then 1k = 8k hp +/-, now Life steal i do ET 12-20 targets 3-4k dmg each = 40-80k dmg = 4-8k HP (10%LS) with 3xLS boon 12k-24k if the ET crit its even more HP just 1 skill 15% dmg deflect to target LS stab LS aoe dailly LS. as life steal keep my HP full or close to it regeneration doesnt heal that much.
FH use KV; ITF; ET, shield talent and 15% deflect from block LS keep u alive and KV even give u 20% dmg resistance if your party have decent aoe dmg with KV dmg buff u do the boss and adds ata same time just blocking and near boss.
ofc with low aoe dmg in party u end have o move more. but u dont have to run arround with adds, its us willing to do that that make the party lazy its easy to just kill the boss while the gf works hard with adds, well remove add and gf can solo the boss also.
same with KV its a skill to help not a skill to make party lazy, every time iam on a party with KV and the rest dont even try to avoid reds i just turn it off let the guy die and then i tell him u try to avoid reds i set it on if u dont even try iam not going to die for u.
So it works for you and that's great. But as I said, I don't do a lot of damage, so lifesteal isn't going to work very well for me. Different people play the game in different ways. I have barely 12k GS on that toon, and I'm focused on defense and buffing/debuffing. I don't have the power to make effective use of lifesteal, but I do have the defense and HP to absorb a lot of damage with KV and I do keep debuffs on all the mobs and use ItF on CD to help speed up the runs. Regeneration, for me, is better than lifesteal. That's my point; different people, different builds, and both work. But instead you get people who just say "regeneration is bad for PvE." No, it's not. Maybe it's not good for you, but that's all. It's good for some people.
I'm not sure if it's because of the aspects of this game or what it is really, but this MMO definitely does have one of the most toxic communities I've ever seen in such a game, specifically in the random pugs or /lfg channel. For whatever reason there's tons of constant bickering and resentment and greediness and it's just really disgusting to see. I've learned to just avoid them like the spellplague, as much as I can anyway. Sometimes it's hard to get a group together, but doing guild runs or putting a group together in /legit is BY FAR the best way to have fun with the content. Pugging is just asking to have a bad time, and it's almost never the low GS people that are going to give you that bad time but rather the elitist jerks that are going to spend the entire time complaining and blaming everyone else for whatever they think is going wrong instead of working together to overcome the challenges. I tend to think that most of those people are there because no guild or the legit channel would tolerate them anymore.
I think there are so many reasons for the toxicity. Some are on the players some are on cryptic. Need vs Greed system with BoE epics >> Cryptic. GS snobbery of lfg 15kgs for PK >> Players. Then you have the fact that some skills actually hinder a group and newbs don't realize it, toss in some pvp and you have the perfect storm where players start resenting each other. All parties have had a part in this.
I need to know the strength of my team mates, despite the BS that invariably spews from their mouths. GS does not show me. But it is all I have. Would like to see something better. Like- DPS Rating, Survival Rating, and maybe some historical rating that shows idle (or dead) time during team combat. So I am picking the second option. But I do not think it matters. No one is listening.
As said before, it is doable alone, but I dont que with 4 other ppl to solo the boss.
Find the difference. I que premade, we finish ESOT in 5 min. You go with a PuG and it takes 5 minutes, to kill the boss solo after the rest of the group whiped. Add the not stellar server performance atm and you will have to try it more than once, so you wont get killed by a AoE that hits you even when you left the area before it hits.
We are talking about ESOT or ELOL here. You dont have to do it to gear up, you should have your gear. I never asked for GS, when I went into a T2 dungeon, even before they became easymode, but imo you are not underperforming, if you are not able to carry every PuG and his mom to victory in ESOT or ELOL.
I remember runs, before we had the GS inflation, when we had problems finishing ELOL or ESOT. When I had groups with really bad performance, I gave the bossfight some tries and left (after I siad, that I will leave and wishing them more luck with my replacement), but I do understand ppl who tried to kill the boss for half an hour, did fail time and time again and dont leave, but kick the 13k PuG who did a 10th of the dmg of the next player, even if he plays a dps class.
We're not telling you to expect to solo every run. Just that if you die, it's your fault because if it worst comes to worse, you CAN do it (or at least a decent player can). There's also 3 other people on your team apart from the low gs player, so it's also on them. A decent 4 man party can easily take it down. Yes, they're pugs too but you were the one that put the blame on 1 person.
One strategy in VT is to ignore the coffers in the last phase and just dps her down. If you have enough dps you can easily do it without bothering with the coffers. If one person sucks with the coffers, does that mean that it's completely their fault if you fail? If they can do the coffer phase fine then no it isn't because you're skipping the difficulty by making the fight shorter. The difference here is that there's no separate strategy, just dodge and dps. As long as you do that fine, you can win. Just because they contribute less does not mean you get to shift the entire blame onto them. You failed too and had to get another person to carry you because you couldn't handle the fight unless it's done quick. They don't deserve the kick when the whole team failed. It's rude, inconsiderate and completely selfish.
I AM against GS for a simple reason, it says nothing!
pugs are usually bad, period
there is no way to prevent this, when I used to pug I would get people with 5k+ more gs than me and I would still be the one saving their asses in the end and getting top damage, high gs pugs are usually te worst, because you should expect a low gs party to be learning the game or not be able to do much, but when you get a party with 16-20k++ people and they perform worse than everyone else, that's the worst pug.
There is no excuses for a 20k gs player perform worse than a 13k one of the same class. and this happens in this game, frequently.
We're not telling you to expect to solo every run. Just that if you die, it's your fault because if it worst comes to worse, you CAN do it (or at least a decent player can). There's also 3 other people on your team apart from the low gs player, so it's also on them. A decent 4 man party can easily take it down. Yes, they're pugs too but you were the one that put the blame on 1 person.
One strategy in VT is to ignore the coffers in the last phase and just dps her down. If you have enough dps you can easily do it without bothering with the coffers. If one person sucks with the coffers, does that mean that it's completely their fault if you fail? If they can do the coffer phase fine then no it isn't because you're skipping the difficulty by making the fight shorter. The difference here is that there's no separate strategy, just dodge and dps. As long as you do that fine, you can win. Just because they contribute less does not mean you get to shift the entire blame onto them. You failed too and had to get another person to carry you because you couldn't handle the fight unless it's done quick. They don't deserve the kick when the whole team failed. It's rude, inconsiderate and completely selfish.
Did you read my posts before you replied? I dont kick bad players, I leave the party after some tries. I just said, that I can understand ppl who do it.
By chance I did ELOL with some mediocre players on my DC. First I used debuff/ buff skills and later on heal spells in the bossfight. I still did a few million more dmg, than 3 other players in my team. One of them died allways in the first seconds. He survived the first half of the fight once. He left after ~5 tries and we got another player and finished the fight in the first try. One player can make the difference.
A decent team can carry one or two bad players, but do they have to? What about mediocre teams, who struggle with ELOL or ESOT? Do they have to quit, bc one really bad player does not contribute anything and they cant carry him? I dont think so.
Did you read my posts before you replied? I dont kick bad players, I leave the party after some tries. I just said, that I can understand ppl who do it.
By chance I did ELOL with some mediocre players on my DC. First I used debuff/ buff skills and later on heal spells in the bossfight. I still did a few million more dmg, than 3 other players in my team. One of them died allways in the first seconds. He survived the first half of the fight once. He left after ~5 tries and we got another player and finished the fight in the first try. One player can make the difference.
A decent team can carry one or two bad players, but do they have to? What about mediocre teams, who struggle with ELOL or ESOT? Do they have to quit, bc one really bad player does not contribute anything and they cant carry him? I dont think so.
From your opening line I assumed (wrongly) you were that other guy. With the same logic though, the ones who hijack parties and kick the ones who did all the work are alright since they're not confident the team is capable of doing all of the work so why not replace the whole party?
There is no excuses for a 20k gs player perform worse than a 13k one of the same class. and this happens in this game, frequently.
By frequently, do you mean that you saw it happen 2x and made a big deal about it but the other 800 times the 20k GS player outperformed the 13k GS player you forgot about it?
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ebonyshadowMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2015
OK, I voted that it should be replaced.... Because I think it does a very bad job of what it is supposed to do.... however, that needs someone to come up with something that works better and I've not seen anything so far that would do so. So despite my vote, GS is the best we have at the moment and is what we are stuck with till something better turns up.
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xianclinnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
OK, I voted that it should be replaced.... Because I think it does a very bad job of what it is supposed to do.... however, that needs someone to come up with something that works better and I've not seen anything so far that would do so. So despite my vote, GS is the best we have at the moment and is what we are stuck with till something better turns up.
Just like education in the real world, hard work, or time invested in a career. These things seperate people - the ones who make effort from the ones who don't. There are some exceptions of course. But the reality is only bad players or casual players who don't care about gear really freak out about such things.
Look if your gear sucks? Players have every right not to want to play with you. The same goes if you are a bad player. If bad players stayed with bad players, and good with good there is not an issue with the system.
There simply has to be some kind of filtration system in place. Trust me no gearscore may sound good to bad players but the rage and going off on others would be even worse.
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xianclinnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
People shouldn't judge each other by GS. Its that plain and simple. GS isn't for them to judge. It has only 1 purpose: to allow or deny you entry to a certain location. While there are much better solutions to deny or grant people access to certain areas (that's for another topic I suppose), this is what we have and that is its only purpose in this game. I would be totally alright with hiding GS from other players. It's not their business to know what GS you have unless you're a e-peen fanatic. You're allowed in the area by the game, so you should be allowed in the team, plain as that. As far as I'm concerned, any other argument for or against a certain GS has nothing to do with the game and everything to do about ego's.
Yep and clearly you enjoy wasting your time in game. Look I'm all for helping friends who are not very good. It's fun when they have bad gear too. It's completely fine. But when it comes to random strangers? Most people want to play with other players with high gearscore.
The reason is time is precious and you want to get your stuff done. Playing with bad players just increases the time invested and that is no fun for anyone. If you can even get the task done at all.
It's a waste of everyone's time. That's why it would probably be best to put various gearscore groups together, that would solve many issues. Low with Low, Medium with Medium and High with High.
From your opening line I assumed (wrongly) you were that other guy. With the same logic though, the ones who hijack parties and kick the ones who did all the work are alright since they're not confident the team is capable of doing all of the work so why not replace the whole party?
If a TEAM kicks ONE player, who DID NOTHING, how is it the same as hijacking a party and kicking the players who did the dungeon.
BTW, to hijack a instance, there have to be at last two new players, so there would not be much left of the original team. While I would put someone who does a hijack move on ignore, I still can understand ppl who kick bad players.
I know, that there are some idiots out there. When I geared up my HR I got kicked out of a PUG T2 run, while he was 2nd dps wise. In ESOT a PUG team kicked my CW after two whipes, while I wrote down the machanics, bc they obviously did not know them. They did not want to wait 30 sec. till I finished the massage. I had more dmg then the second by far.
I try to treat other players the way I want them to behave towards me. I would NOT go AFK and expect them to do the instance alone. I would not expect random players to carry me.
The problem here is, that the community is to big, that it cant regulate itself. It does not matter if you ninjaed the loot, went AFK, used rude language, bc there are plenty of other players to run with, if your team puts you on ignore. Reporting before mentioned behaviour brings nothing at all.
Best way to have a trouble free run is, to go premade, then you will at last know the strength and weaknesses of the other players.
Do what gw2 do.No inspect gear from others no gs.This gs thing is the worst that you can meet in any mmo.If you are so good prove it with dps meter.Because i have met many ppl with better gs but worse dps than mine.But these ppl are still "better" than me because i cant prove to others my dps if they dont inv me because of low gs.
Do what gw2 do.No inspect gear from others no gs.This gs thing is the worst that you can meet in any mmo.If you are so good prove it with dps meter.Because i have met many ppl with better gs but worse dps than mine.But these ppl are still "better" than me because i cant prove to others my dps if they dont inv me because of low gs.
yea the inspect option should be removed from the game.
Do what gw2 do.No inspect gear from others no gs.This gs thing is the worst that you can meet in any mmo.If you are so good prove it with dps meter.Because i have met many ppl with better gs but worse dps than mine.But these ppl are still "better" than me because i cant prove to others my dps if they dont inv me because of low gs.
Well there is no dps meter in game. Only act. I doubt they'll put in a dps meter. Paingiver is a worse measure than gearscore.
yea the inspect option should be removed from the game.
What a very thoroughly considered suggestion. I'd greatly enjoy helping guildies fix their weird stats without being able to look at what they're wearing and using.
If a TEAM kicks ONE player, who DID NOTHING, how is it the same as hijacking a party and kicking the players who did the dungeon.
BTW, to hijack a instance, there have to be at last two new players, so there would not be much left of the original team. While I would put someone who does a hijack move on ignore, I still can understand ppl who kick bad players.
I know, that there are some idiots out there. When I geared up my HR I got kicked out of a PUG T2 run, while he was 2nd dps wise. In ESOT a PUG team kicked my CW after two whipes, while I wrote down the machanics, bc they obviously did not know them. They did not want to wait 30 sec. till I finished the massage. I had more dmg then the second by far.
I try to treat other players the way I want them to behave towards me. I would NOT go AFK and expect them to do the instance alone. I would not expect random players to carry me.
The problem here is, that the community is to big, that it cant regulate itself. It does not matter if you ninjaed the loot, went AFK, used rude language, bc there are plenty of other players to run with, if your team puts you on ignore. Reporting before mentioned behaviour brings nothing at all.
Best way to have a trouble free run is, to go premade, then you will at last know the strength and weaknesses of the other players.
The kick function isn't there to kick for "lol low deeps bra", it's there to kick toxicity or those that afk. We weren't talking about someone who showed either attitudes, just that they were low on the paingiver chart. To do otherwise, is to abuse it to get an easy time for the whole teams lack of skill. Want an easy time? Then form a premade. So yes, hijacking a party is very similar, after all in both situations they are kicking people who "can't do the run".
Just like education in the real world, hard work, or time invested in a career. These things seperate people - the ones who make effort from the ones who don't. There are some exceptions of course. But the reality is only bad players or casual players who don't care about gear really freak out about such things.
Look if your gear sucks? Players have every right not to want to play with you. The same goes if you are a bad player. If bad players stayed with bad players, and good with good there is not an issue with the system.
There simply has to be some kind of filtration system in place. Trust me no gearscore may sound good to bad players but the rage and going off on others would be even worse.
Yes, education, hard work, and time invested in a career do tend to separate the successful from the slackers.
But here's the thing: Gear Score is a very bad measure of these things in this game. As noted in my original post, a person who achieved gear by grinding dungeons and learning their character, and a person who spent 5 minutes buying gear from the AH, can have exactly the same GS. It won't differentiate between the two.
In that sense, in analogy with a person's career, GS is like a person's age. Yes an older person will tend to have more experience in the workforce, a better career, a higher income, etc., etc., then a younger person. But that is not at all guaranteed to be the case, and age is not a good indicator of that. There's plenty of deadbeat adults too.
And will you people please stop with this nonsense about "only bad players want GS to be gone". There have been quite a few geared and good players commenting in this thread who also agree that GS is either flawed, toxic, or both, and should go. There are good valid reasons for wanting GS to go other than pure self-interest.
Yes, education, hard work, and time invested in a career do tend to separate the successful from the slackers.
But here's the thing: Gear Score is a very bad measure of these things in this game. As noted in my original post, a person who achieved gear by grinding dungeons and learning their character, and a person who spent 5 minutes buying gear from the AH, can have exactly the same GS. It won't differentiate between the two.
In that sense, in analogy with a person's career, GS is like a person's age. Yes an older person will tend to have more experience in the workforce, a better career, a higher income, etc., etc., then a younger person. But that is not at all guaranteed to be the case, and age is not a good indicator of that. There's plenty of deadbeat adults too.
And will you people please stop with this nonsense about "only bad players want GS to be gone". There have been quite a few geared and good players commenting in this thread who also agree that GS is either flawed, toxic, or both, and should go. There are good valid reasons for wanting GS to go other than pure self-interest.
I also played Tera, which went F2P quite a while ago.
After the game went free, everything turned into iLvl <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. The requirements for getting into a party are usually well above what's needed to complete the dungeon. The dungeon may have an iLvl requirement of 140 but if you're lower than 170, you're getting kicked. To put this into perspective, getting 30 extra iLvls is pretty **** expensive and very time consuming, the equivalent of going from 15-20k GS in NW.
Back into NW, GS is even worse than Tera. Even GWD parties are requiring 15k+ GS to queue for them. Not to mention, people hold their GS equivalent to skill, which isn't the case. At least from the PvP threads crying about TRs, there are tons of 20k+ players out there who play with the skill of a 4k GS. The GS stat should be left in place but it should be invisible to spectate or inspect.
I use it as a measurement of how far my equips are progressing. It shouldn't be used to discriminate based on false weight.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
actually I posted my issue this before and deleted ridiculous when I encountered a DC 10 gs and I am 20 gs GWF my God couldn't land a scratch on him so whats the use of this GS if the admin can't fix the right benchmark of every classes, your balance team is I guess sleeping when they are supposed to do the job.
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zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
edited January 2015
Still, complain here, complain there, and no ideas how to repalce GS... we need a measure unit, in this case its not-so-effective GS, but at least it is...
(Sin)cerely
Kain
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Still, complain here, complain there, and no ideas how to repalce GS... we need a measure unit, in this case its not-so-effective GS, but at least it is...
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Same GS but calculated using the Diminished return functions (https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj), so more balanced builds will give more and 6k recovery / crit will give much much less than 4k power + 2k recovery/crit
Same GS but calculated using the Diminished return functions (https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj), so more balanced builds will give more and 6k recovery / crit will give much much less than 4k power + 2k recovery/crit
That is interesting. However you do have have have some consideration over stats. Do control bonus and stamina gain count, after all a HR speccing into such stats for example may equally be gs <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if it gave more than power and hp. If it didn't give more than hp and power than they'd be more effective since they don't have diminishing returns. For a CW, you may not want a deflection stat, but to gs ***** that may entice you to do so anyway. So there are still some things to think about which may end up having similar problems. Plus you can just buy it all out, however it's probably fairly hard to have an accurate skill score. Would it even be worth it? You'd still have people judging and hence it's still peoples attitudes that need to change.
I voted to keep GS the way it is. What does need to change is the inspect player option. You should be able to block other people from inspecting you. Since a persons gear score is abused and doesn't really tell you anything about a players abilities.
I voted to keep GS the way it is. What does need to change is the inspect player option. You should be able to block other people from inspecting you. Since a persons gear score is abused and doesn't really tell you anything about a players abilities.
How would that change anything. Those that had it on blocked would just be treated as the leper at that point.
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zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
I voted to keep GS the way it is. What does need to change is the inspect player option. You should be able to block other people from inspecting you. Since a persons gear score is abused and doesn't really tell you anything about a players abilities.
-Did u kill him?
-With my right i refuse to answer this question.
*clap clap clap*
Next smart idea?
@micky(Jannie)
So more likly somthing based on all %-tage income we have? But multiplied by 100 and sumbited as number? (well would end around 500-1k give or take) But problem is, diffrent stat has diffrent soft caps (basicly its mutipled for somthing around 780(CA), like ~1460 for regen or ls, and 2540 for crit/arpen, etc), so it affect %-tage income, (8% roso CA, ~14% regen, ~26% crit etc, and ofc "endless" dmg from powah). It also may be quite unfair if we would compare difrent clases based on difrent must-have stats.
Comments
Iam a gf and life steal it my best friend 10% 10% life steal and i get more hp form life steal than regeneration! simple 50k HP when iam at 50% hp i get 2.5k every 3 sec lets say 15 sec 2.5 then 2 then 1.7 them 1.2k then then 1k = 8k hp +/-, now Life steal i do ET 12-20 targets 3-4k dmg each = 40-80k dmg = 4-8k HP (10%LS) with 3xLS boon 12k-24k if the ET crit its even more HP just 1 skill 15% dmg deflect to target LS stab LS aoe dailly LS. as life steal keep my HP full or close to it regeneration doesnt heal that much.
FH use KV; ITF; ET, shield talent and 15% deflect from block LS keep u alive and KV even give u 20% dmg resistance if your party have decent aoe dmg with KV dmg buff u do the boss and adds ata same time just blocking and near boss.
ofc with low aoe dmg in party u end have o move more. but u dont have to run arround with adds, its us willing to do that that make the party lazy its easy to just kill the boss while the gf works hard with adds, well remove add and gf can solo the boss also.
same with KV its a skill to help not a skill to make party lazy, every time iam on a party with KV and the rest dont even try to avoid reds i just turn it off let the guy die and then i tell him u try to avoid reds i set it on if u dont even try iam not going to die for u.
I'm not sure if it's because of the aspects of this game or what it is really, but this MMO definitely does have one of the most toxic communities I've ever seen in such a game, specifically in the random pugs or /lfg channel. For whatever reason there's tons of constant bickering and resentment and greediness and it's just really disgusting to see. I've learned to just avoid them like the spellplague, as much as I can anyway. Sometimes it's hard to get a group together, but doing guild runs or putting a group together in /legit is BY FAR the best way to have fun with the content. Pugging is just asking to have a bad time, and it's almost never the low GS people that are going to give you that bad time but rather the elitist jerks that are going to spend the entire time complaining and blaming everyone else for whatever they think is going wrong instead of working together to overcome the challenges. I tend to think that most of those people are there because no guild or the legit channel would tolerate them anymore.
So it works for you and that's great. But as I said, I don't do a lot of damage, so lifesteal isn't going to work very well for me. Different people play the game in different ways. I have barely 12k GS on that toon, and I'm focused on defense and buffing/debuffing. I don't have the power to make effective use of lifesteal, but I do have the defense and HP to absorb a lot of damage with KV and I do keep debuffs on all the mobs and use ItF on CD to help speed up the runs. Regeneration, for me, is better than lifesteal. That's my point; different people, different builds, and both work. But instead you get people who just say "regeneration is bad for PvE." No, it's not. Maybe it's not good for you, but that's all. It's good for some people.
I think there are so many reasons for the toxicity. Some are on the players some are on cryptic. Need vs Greed system with BoE epics >> Cryptic. GS snobbery of lfg 15kgs for PK >> Players. Then you have the fact that some skills actually hinder a group and newbs don't realize it, toss in some pvp and you have the perfect storm where players start resenting each other. All parties have had a part in this.
We're not telling you to expect to solo every run. Just that if you die, it's your fault because if it worst comes to worse, you CAN do it (or at least a decent player can). There's also 3 other people on your team apart from the low gs player, so it's also on them. A decent 4 man party can easily take it down. Yes, they're pugs too but you were the one that put the blame on 1 person.
One strategy in VT is to ignore the coffers in the last phase and just dps her down. If you have enough dps you can easily do it without bothering with the coffers. If one person sucks with the coffers, does that mean that it's completely their fault if you fail? If they can do the coffer phase fine then no it isn't because you're skipping the difficulty by making the fight shorter. The difference here is that there's no separate strategy, just dodge and dps. As long as you do that fine, you can win. Just because they contribute less does not mean you get to shift the entire blame onto them. You failed too and had to get another person to carry you because you couldn't handle the fight unless it's done quick. They don't deserve the kick when the whole team failed. It's rude, inconsiderate and completely selfish.
pugs are usually bad, period
there is no way to prevent this, when I used to pug I would get people with 5k+ more gs than me and I would still be the one saving their asses in the end and getting top damage, high gs pugs are usually te worst, because you should expect a low gs party to be learning the game or not be able to do much, but when you get a party with 16-20k++ people and they perform worse than everyone else, that's the worst pug.
There is no excuses for a 20k gs player perform worse than a 13k one of the same class. and this happens in this game, frequently.
All day, erry day! :cool:
Did you read my posts before you replied? I dont kick bad players, I leave the party after some tries. I just said, that I can understand ppl who do it.
By chance I did ELOL with some mediocre players on my DC. First I used debuff/ buff skills and later on heal spells in the bossfight. I still did a few million more dmg, than 3 other players in my team. One of them died allways in the first seconds. He survived the first half of the fight once. He left after ~5 tries and we got another player and finished the fight in the first try. One player can make the difference.
A decent team can carry one or two bad players, but do they have to? What about mediocre teams, who struggle with ELOL or ESOT? Do they have to quit, bc one really bad player does not contribute anything and they cant carry him? I dont think so.
From your opening line I assumed (wrongly) you were that other guy. With the same logic though, the ones who hijack parties and kick the ones who did all the work are alright since they're not confident the team is capable of doing all of the work so why not replace the whole party?
By frequently, do you mean that you saw it happen 2x and made a big deal about it but the other 800 times the 20k GS player outperformed the 13k GS player you forgot about it?
Just like education in the real world, hard work, or time invested in a career. These things seperate people - the ones who make effort from the ones who don't. There are some exceptions of course. But the reality is only bad players or casual players who don't care about gear really freak out about such things.
Look if your gear sucks? Players have every right not to want to play with you. The same goes if you are a bad player. If bad players stayed with bad players, and good with good there is not an issue with the system.
There simply has to be some kind of filtration system in place. Trust me no gearscore may sound good to bad players but the rage and going off on others would be even worse.
Yep and clearly you enjoy wasting your time in game. Look I'm all for helping friends who are not very good. It's fun when they have bad gear too. It's completely fine. But when it comes to random strangers? Most people want to play with other players with high gearscore.
The reason is time is precious and you want to get your stuff done. Playing with bad players just increases the time invested and that is no fun for anyone. If you can even get the task done at all.
It's a waste of everyone's time. That's why it would probably be best to put various gearscore groups together, that would solve many issues. Low with Low, Medium with Medium and High with High.
If a TEAM kicks ONE player, who DID NOTHING, how is it the same as hijacking a party and kicking the players who did the dungeon.
BTW, to hijack a instance, there have to be at last two new players, so there would not be much left of the original team. While I would put someone who does a hijack move on ignore, I still can understand ppl who kick bad players.
I know, that there are some idiots out there. When I geared up my HR I got kicked out of a PUG T2 run, while he was 2nd dps wise. In ESOT a PUG team kicked my CW after two whipes, while I wrote down the machanics, bc they obviously did not know them. They did not want to wait 30 sec. till I finished the massage. I had more dmg then the second by far.
I try to treat other players the way I want them to behave towards me. I would NOT go AFK and expect them to do the instance alone. I would not expect random players to carry me.
The problem here is, that the community is to big, that it cant regulate itself. It does not matter if you ninjaed the loot, went AFK, used rude language, bc there are plenty of other players to run with, if your team puts you on ignore. Reporting before mentioned behaviour brings nothing at all.
Best way to have a trouble free run is, to go premade, then you will at last know the strength and weaknesses of the other players.
yea the inspect option should be removed from the game.
Well there is no dps meter in game. Only act. I doubt they'll put in a dps meter. Paingiver is a worse measure than gearscore.
What a very thoroughly considered suggestion. I'd greatly enjoy helping guildies fix their weird stats without being able to look at what they're wearing and using.
The kick function isn't there to kick for "lol low deeps bra", it's there to kick toxicity or those that afk. We weren't talking about someone who showed either attitudes, just that they were low on the paingiver chart. To do otherwise, is to abuse it to get an easy time for the whole teams lack of skill. Want an easy time? Then form a premade. So yes, hijacking a party is very similar, after all in both situations they are kicking people who "can't do the run".
Man I wish that were true in practice
Yes, education, hard work, and time invested in a career do tend to separate the successful from the slackers.
But here's the thing: Gear Score is a very bad measure of these things in this game. As noted in my original post, a person who achieved gear by grinding dungeons and learning their character, and a person who spent 5 minutes buying gear from the AH, can have exactly the same GS. It won't differentiate between the two.
In that sense, in analogy with a person's career, GS is like a person's age. Yes an older person will tend to have more experience in the workforce, a better career, a higher income, etc., etc., then a younger person. But that is not at all guaranteed to be the case, and age is not a good indicator of that. There's plenty of deadbeat adults too.
And will you people please stop with this nonsense about "only bad players want GS to be gone". There have been quite a few geared and good players commenting in this thread who also agree that GS is either flawed, toxic, or both, and should go. There are good valid reasons for wanting GS to go other than pure self-interest.
I also played Tera, which went F2P quite a while ago.
After the game went free, everything turned into iLvl <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. The requirements for getting into a party are usually well above what's needed to complete the dungeon. The dungeon may have an iLvl requirement of 140 but if you're lower than 170, you're getting kicked. To put this into perspective, getting 30 extra iLvls is pretty **** expensive and very time consuming, the equivalent of going from 15-20k GS in NW.
Back into NW, GS is even worse than Tera. Even GWD parties are requiring 15k+ GS to queue for them. Not to mention, people hold their GS equivalent to skill, which isn't the case. At least from the PvP threads crying about TRs, there are tons of 20k+ players out there who play with the skill of a 4k GS. The GS stat should be left in place but it should be invisible to spectate or inspect.
I use it as a measurement of how far my equips are progressing. It shouldn't be used to discriminate based on false weight.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Same GS but calculated using the Diminished return functions (https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj), so more balanced builds will give more and 6k recovery / crit will give much much less than 4k power + 2k recovery/crit
That is interesting. However you do have have have some consideration over stats. Do control bonus and stamina gain count, after all a HR speccing into such stats for example may equally be gs <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if it gave more than power and hp. If it didn't give more than hp and power than they'd be more effective since they don't have diminishing returns. For a CW, you may not want a deflection stat, but to gs ***** that may entice you to do so anyway. So there are still some things to think about which may end up having similar problems. Plus you can just buy it all out, however it's probably fairly hard to have an accurate skill score. Would it even be worth it? You'd still have people judging and hence it's still peoples attitudes that need to change.
How would that change anything. Those that had it on blocked would just be treated as the leper at that point.
-Did u kill him?
-With my right i refuse to answer this question.
*clap clap clap*
Next smart idea?
@micky(Jannie)
So more likly somthing based on all %-tage income we have? But multiplied by 100 and sumbited as number? (well would end around 500-1k give or take) But problem is, diffrent stat has diffrent soft caps (basicly its mutipled for somthing around 780(CA), like ~1460 for regen or ls, and 2540 for crit/arpen, etc), so it affect %-tage income, (8% roso CA, ~14% regen, ~26% crit etc, and ofc "endless" dmg from powah). It also may be quite unfair if we would compare difrent clases based on difrent must-have stats.
(Sin)cerely
Kain