Back and forth, back and forth. You say greed is good, and lot of people say it isn't. You got your opinion I got mine. Lets leave it at that.
The topic is about people abusing vote kick to satisfy their greed in this game, and it's wrong.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Back and forth, back and forth. You say greed is good, and lot of people say it isn't. You got your opinion I got mine. Lets leave it at that.
The topic is about people abusing vote kick to satisfy their greed in this game, and it's wrong.
Actually I believe the topic is a person being kicked for not conforming to a rule he/she didn't know about.
Hence the title "Is there an unwritten looting law?", which is also wrong but defiantly have nothing to do with someone being greedy, But a lot about lack of communication.
If the rule would have being you only allowed to walk in reverse, and a person would have been kicked for it, it would have been the same situation, nothing to do with greed.
But, yes, the original topic is also not about merits/demerits of greed/need.
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clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
edited December 2014
There does seem to be this unwritten law, but ultimately the game dictates the rules one must follow it should not be based on the ethics of the group that kicks the most. I agree with the opening post that people who kick others because they do not share their ethical world view are extremely rude, in fact they are abusing the game and habitual kickers should frankly be banned.
The greed rule makes sense. There is a box at the end of every dungeon which is YOUR loot. Drops from bosses are the PARTY's loot. You can gear up entirely from the chest at the end, so therefore needing on boss drops is actually just being greedy and saying that your time is worth more than the other 4 peoples. That said, I do not use the dungeon finder. I use lfg and either make my own greed party's or join one. I am not there to be charitable to random strangers whom most likely I will never meet again. Full guild groups are ofc different. And really if its not the last boss drop I do not really care if someone needs.
Don't like it? Don't join.
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beatannierMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 692Arc User
Kicking ppl without a word of explanation is extremely rude.
No; looting item to yourself by Need is rude when other classes cannot choose "Need". And kicking any player who tries to get all the loot to himself is absolutelly abvious. Don`t be selfish so you won`t get kicked. Also note; whetever you choose "Need", you get kicked and will not be able to get the loot anyway. Also, you decrease chance to find another party as you are become blacklisted by parties.
Need has the same expected value, slightly higher variance, and is completely enforceable with game mechanics. The higher expected value is the trade-off for allowing people exclusive access to items they could actually use.
Greed is, in fact, the exact opposite of common sense. The only reason to insist on greed is to bring drama into your life.
LOL -- I agree completely. Sooo many missed items because you chose greed and then someone else chose need. So many kicked players that you can't finish the dungeon w/out. It's just goofy.
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urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
Hi
Yesterday i got kicked from a DD random party for, as I understand it, choosing Need on a class specific purple item.
Not a word in chat had discussed the matter. Later on I was in another party and another player chose need again on purple class specific item and sure enough a vote came up for kicking him.
If there is loot rules that wants the side-step the by game built in ones, there need to be a discussion in the party first imho.
Kicking ppl without a word of explanation is extremely rude.
It happened to me last week...
I normally always choose Greed just cause.
That said I rarely win any rolls
But
Last week I chose need on two purples I really needed/wanted ... Things went north from there.
There was lots of angry party chats about what a jerk (or worse) I was
I was clueless.
But
A very nice ( but annoyed) priestess told me you always choose Greed on purple stuff.
I felt bad... worse cause I still did not get anything
I was told that it was ok to need blues but not purples.
Fair enough
I have been living by that ever since...
BTW
Did I mention that even with Need I still lost both Items?
One thing to consider: Even if you plan on using a drop from a boss, it is often a smarter move to sell the drop anyway and wait to get the item from the chest. For instance, consider the Avatar of War Greaves, it is currently selling for about 350,000 AD on the market, which is a considerable amount of cash for many people. Even if you are a GWF in need of those boots it would make more sense for you to sell them for 350k and keep running FH until you get a BoP pair from the end chest. Which means that everyone in the party should be allowed to roll on the item as well, because selling it is the most logical decision and it is only fair for all people to get a chance on the roll.
Yeah, this assumes every player has infinite time to spend in-game. If I'm running a dungeon to get a pair of GWF greaves, and then they drop, I'm not giving them to a CW and hope I get them from a chest sometime later. (Especially if it's FH! Can't stand that dungeon.) I have TERRIBLE luck with drops and no where near the available play time as others.
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urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
The greed rule makes sense. There is a box at the end of every dungeon which is YOUR loot. Drops from bosses are the PARTY's loot. You can gear up entirely from the chest at the end, so therefore needing on boss drops is actually just being greedy and saying that your time is worth more than the other 4 peoples. That said, I do not use the dungeon finder. I use lfg and either make my own greed party's or join one. I am not there to be charitable to random strangers whom most likely I will never meet again. Full guild groups are ofc different. And really if its not the last boss drop I do not really care if someone needs.
Don't like it? Don't join.
Frankly I don't have a problem with it...
There are a few secs at the beginning where the party leader could send out ... "Greed on Purples" or something like that so everyone knows
then I would agree do not join but is is a tad late then.
Some folks gather parties and then hit a DD. then it would be best to state the rules before they hit the DD
In terms of unwritten rules, it seems that what most people do lately is Need on items anyone can use, like the shores jewelry and Greed on epic items that are class specific. For example an avatar of war bracer from karrundax would be a greed role, and if you went need, it would be rude.
If you are in a group, and you are unclear about the loot rules, always always ask. Also, always have loot rolls in your chat window so you can pay attention. If I am the person setting the group, I always try to say something like, 'greed on purples, please' right before I queue us. If you're not lead...ask. And don't listen to people saying not to pug. There are plenty of helpful and fun people out there who will take you on dungeon runs. I rarely have bad experiences when picking someone up from lfg or putting myself out there for a group.
There does seem to be this unwritten law, but ultimately the game dictates the rules one must follow it should not be based on the ethics of the group that kicks the most. I agree with the opening post that people who kick others because they do not share their ethical world view are extremely rude, in fact they are abusing the game and habitual kickers should frankly be banned.
No; looting item to yourself by Need is rude when other classes cannot choose "Need". And kicking any player who tries to get all the loot to himself is absolutelly abvious. Don`t be selfish so you won`t get kicked. Also note; whetever you choose "Need", you get kicked and will not be able to get the loot anyway. Also, you decrease chance to find another party as you are become blacklisted by parties.
This is false logic. You say that needing is taking the chance for loot from others. But consider this: Forcing greed upon someone is a selfish attempt at taking the chance for the loot that they can actually use and not only sell/salvage from them. Which is pure greed, and even more disgusting if you are trying to convince everyone that "need" person is is actually greedy, not the "greed" one.
And kicking in such situation should be bannable, trying to justify it is just wrong.
This is false logic. You say that needing is taking the chance for loot from others. But consider this: Forcing greed upon someone is a selfish attempt at taking the chance for the loot that they can actually use and not only sell/salvage from them. Which is pure greed, and even more disgusting if you are trying to convince everyone that "need" person is is actually greedy, not the "greed" one.
And kicking in such situation should be bannable, trying to justify it is just wrong.
Well, the party has to all agree at the beginning on the loot rules by: COMMUNICATION! If the party does not agree, then there is no need to go on. Forcing people to carry 10k GS pugs in a dungeon is a selfish attempt by the pugs as well. It goes both ways. Communication is key.
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onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
edited December 2014
When my guild fills out a party with pugs we explicitly state run rules. As others have said, communication is key.
The only unwritten looting law is, "Don't loot in combat!" No one wants their screen filled up with trash greens in the middle of a fight.
Geaz! That's intense. I run Dungeons sometimes and pass on everything (if I'm running w/ a bunch of 12k). I just like to kill monsters.
You don't know you don't have a chance. It's possible you may have the only chance.
To be honest, I pass on just about everything in most runs, simply because I am usually only after the AD I need to finish some high-end project (refining, buying a new artifact, whatever). I enjoy doing dungeons, and run them frequently and I rarely even use a key on the end chest (not worth it once I have the gear).
But if I am looking to make AD, then running in a Need run is counter productive.
when I queue ,I play by the game rule .I can greed need or pass
If I want a greed run I make a private party
ppl that queue and force a greed run on you are a***h***,thats why there is LFG. so you can make your own greed party
LFG is that you can make what ever party you like
ppl that want to run greed must learn this ,thats why there is a LFG
because when you queue you play by the games rule ,and thats you can greed need or pass
when I queue ,I play by the game rule .I can greed need or pass
If I want a greed run I make a private party
ppl that queue and force a greed run on you are a***h***,thats why there is LFG. so you can make your own greed party
LFG is that you can make what ever party you like
ppl that want to run greed must learn this ,thats why there is a LFG
because when you queue you play by the games rule ,and thats you can greed need or pass
Whether you queue or use the LFG, you are put into a party with other human beings. Not everyone has the same opinion as you do. The party must therefore agree upon whether it is a need or greed run. Don't like the decision? Join another party until you do.
Remember, this is an MMO. You are partying up with other people. Communicate, collaborate and cooperate on making a decision! It really is that simple.
Ummm..... There is also a way to set loot rules if you are the party lead. It's restrictive, but it is there.
Also, my preference is for greed all. Enchants, shards, you name it. The only time I make an exception to this is if someone actually wants the gear. I'll toss a piece of RG to an HR (in the party) in some T1 who needs it to finish the set even if I somehow win the roll. That being said, if an HR in a full set of RG decides to need on another piece of RG (usually in the hundreds of thousands of AD), I'll get very perturbed; but likely just ignore them & never run with them again. I don't agree with kicking anyone over loot rules.
Be honest, if you're just selling it or feeding it to an artifact or artifact gear, choose greed. If you actually need the stuff, communicate with your group. I've never seen anyone refuse a request to turn over a piece of gear to someone who will actually use it, even in a pug.
But kicking because of a need roll (inadvertant or otherwise) is just plain unethical & all you do is damage your own credibility.
There is a channel to report abusers of vote kick or ninja looters to other players. This channel is [Dirtbag Avoidance]. Not used by many at this time, but I hope it can become a tool to ignore some of the more caustic elements in the game. Note that this channel does not replace reporting someone to the dev's, it's just something to help out the good, honest players.
BTW: Almost all the runs I do at this time are /legit runs. 90% of the people on that channel are pretty nice players & good humored to boot. If you are a caustic member of the NW game, please stay away from us. If you're like us, please join, we'd love to have you.
BTW: Almost all the runs I do at this time are /legit runs. 90% of the people on that channel are pretty nice players & good humored to boot. If you are a caustic member of the NW game, please stay away from us. If you're like us, please join, we'd love to have you.
Watched a guy need on all enchants during the double refinement weekend. Was a bit annoying. I asked at beginning of run "all greed", get the typical 1 person response. ofc I passed on everything like I typically do in a dungeon run. But saw the person who agreed, "sigh" as the dude repeatedly hit need.
Make sure all respond to yes or no.
I think it had to do with double refinement weekend. Which really brings out the actual definition of "greed".
Was a legit run. But yah 90% are good people there.
This is false logic. You say that needing is taking the chance for loot from others. But consider this: Forcing greed upon someone is a selfish attempt at taking the chance for the loot that they can actually use and not only sell/salvage from them. Which is pure greed, and even more disgusting if you are trying to convince everyone that "need" person is is actually greedy, not the "greed" one.
Items you can equip you can loot from the chest.
The item that is looting, is BoE, that means everybody can sell it.
It means, by choosing need, you get the item (often worth 400k), depriving parties a chance to get this item and sell it.
You increase avg ~80k (20% of 400k) into 400k, decreasing others ~80k into 0k.
This behavious should be bannable and if we cannot ban, we still can kick and we kick and always will kick some jerk who tries to get rich in cost of others.
Edit:
Increasing self change to get item from 20% to 100%, decreasing others change from 20% to 0% is and always will be selfish independing on what do you want to do with this item.
PS
If you want to go for item, go with your guild / friends. If they cannot, make a "need" run. Need runs are not so common as "greed" runs, but the "need" run rule is that you need if you want. If you really need some item and cannot find a "need" of dungeon /skirmish you want, you can always ask if you can need if boss will drop the item you need. I used to pass on this rule if the ask was made at the beginning of a dungeon. You can also offer 20% of loot drop after passing the item, then pay out after passes. I run a few such dungeons, most MC, when the needed loot was icon for ioun of allure (actually overall the worst for power stacking). Also, you can meet a "split" runs, what means, party leader takes all items and sells them, then aplits AD into parties, but these runs are rare as many jerks doesn`t payout parties after item is sold and the 2nd reson is that the fee is payed twice and often not worth to make "split" runs in comp. to normal, green runs.
There is a good advice, to clarify what kind of run it is at its beggining, you will often see "it is a green run", but if nobody says anything, feel free to ask. Otherwise, always assume it is a greed run and in case of any confusion, just ask parties.
Otherwise, always assume it is a greed run and in case of any confusion, just ask parties.
Sorry I but I find that a bad assumption. Even if people agree with your ethical viewpoint there must have been many new players who got rudely kicked for the simple reason that they were not aware of this unwritten rule (and some of these could have been rage quitters who otherwise could have stayed and provided income to Cryptic). Then there there is a the problem of different languages, my first experience with this rude kicking experience was with people who spoke Turkish, I was kicked, afterwards after doing a google translate of what they said did I discover this unwritten rule.
Also let me make it clear that I agree that people should generally agree upfront what the party should be doing, I don't think many disagree with that. The real issue here is if the rules of the game should be overridden by what seems to a kind of socialist consensus, the default assumption should be that the rules of the game are followed first. Kicking people who play the game as it was designed is abuse.
here two things about need and greed, 1 those who complain about be kicked, would you be happy to make greed on an item that can be sell a couple of million AD (ex a weapon artefact) and see it goes away because it drop for a class that is not your's and the guy who get it don,t even need it, ended to get it due to that.
+ it very rare on the amount of run that you ended with a player that really need the equip, especially since the equip is often availlable on the chest and the only difference is the boss drop is not attached and can be sell on the AH.
The only rare case where people really need it is often on t2 equip and it really a a better move to sell it on the AH and trying to get it on the chest.
So unless you are a fresh beginner with low gear and where you need to speak with temate on the beggining, assum it a greed run.
the only except case is tuern where every one do need.
And the i need (to sell it) argument is availlable for 99.99 % of people who may are more advanced but still need AD to continue
here two things about need and greed, 1 those who complain about be kicked, would you be happy to make greed on an item that can be sell a couple of million AD (ex a weapon artefact) and see it goes away because it drop for a class that is not your's and the guy who get it don,t even need it, ended to get it due to that.
+ it very rare on the amount of run that you ended with a player that really need the equip, especially since the equip is often availlable on the chest and the only difference is the boss drop is not attached and can be sell on the AH.
The only rare case where people really need it is often on t2 equip and it really a a better move to sell it on the AH and trying to get it on the chest.
So unless you are a fresh beginner with low gear and where you need to speak with temate on the beggining, assum it a greed run.
the only except case is tuern where every one do need.
And the i need (to sell it) argument is availlable for 99.99 % of people who may are more advanced but still need AD to continue
majority of all purple drops are actually extremely cheap and fetch more from salvaging. i don't consider those valuable enough to kick people over. there is a good period of time where these cheap purple drops are good upgrades for many beginners and it's silly to be kicked for making a rational decision.
the expensive drops that can sell for 200k+ are rare and possibly may never be seen while getting an entire tier 2 set. i still have yet to see a belt drop from dragon skirmish/dungeon. in fact, draconic gear drops more frequently than tier 2 sets and everyone needs those to sell for as much as 400k.
also, i am of the opinion that needing an expensive drop if it's a part of my set is a good deal. who cares if i can make a lot of ad when i am tired of running that dungeon 20+ times with no luck. also, tier 2 sets are generally dropped on the last boss and kicking means little at that point.
to those who state that getting a bound item from the chest is the better option than needing..i have accomplished with my fellow guildie 20+ runs to SP to get a hat for him. in case we've seen the drop, i'd force him to press need. sometimes rng just hates you. and on the 10th and counting sp run it is not that fun as you can imagine.
but ofc the only right way to 'protect' yourself is to ask beforehand. and even in this case..you know..times of Valindra's Crown was around 5-6 mil i saw the drop once and ofc was kicked immediately by the friendly speaking co-parties who were joking the whole run
stick to the guild/legit and always ask.
majority of all purple drops are actually extremely cheap and fetch more from salvaging. i don't consider those valuable enough to kick people over. there is a good period of time where these cheap purple drops are good upgrades for many beginners and it's silly to be kicked for making a rational decision.
the expensive drops that can sell for 200k+ are rare and possibly may never be seen while getting an entire tier 2 set. i still have yet to see a belt drop from dragon skirmish/dungeon. in fact, draconic gear drops more frequently than tier 2 sets and everyone needs those to sell for as much as 400k.
also, i am of the opinion that needing an expensive drop if it's a part of my set is a good deal. who cares if i can make a lot of ad when i am tired of running that dungeon 20+ times with no luck. also, tier 2 sets are generally dropped on the last boss and kicking means little at that point.
lot may are cheap, but you lack one point in our reasoning, it's drop for chest are attached to account mean you need to refine them to clean your inventory once you get those you want, mean you get non refined AD. daily refined AD is 24k And even if you do not play a lot, once you are mostly equiped, it can become easy to get full of non refined AD, so even an object that can be sell 3k while 10 refined, still better. ( i have practically one week non refined AD in my main).
lot may are cheap, but you lack one point in our reasoning, it's drop for chest are attached to account mean you need to refine them to clean your inventory once you get those you want, mean you get non refined AD. daily refined AD is 24k And even if you do not play a lot, once you are mostly equiped, it can become easy to get full of non refined AD, so even an object that can be sell 3k while 10 refined, still better. ( i have practically one week non refined AD in my main).
i share my purples between my characters so i can rake in up to 96k refined ad daily if i really want to farm that much. drops from the chest can stay on main while everything else can be shared. BoE drops are generally worth more rough ad and are more frequent anyways.
i share my purples between my characters so i can rake in up to 96k refined ad daily if i really want to farm that much. drops from the chest can stay on main while everything else can be shared. BoE drops are generally worth more rough ad and are more frequent anyways.
what ever you prefer (sell it to ah or send it to other character) doesn't change the fact that only non attached item can be used. So since the main source of non attached item is drop, making it greed for all party so every one have same chance to get drop and equality is better + that also solve the problem of having some class drop that cost higher price than some other.
On the amount of run i've done. the case of someone really need something and not to sell it is very rare (how many time some says but i need it and when you check their equip they already have better equiped)
It can be a pretty arduous task for a newcomer to get geared up. They keep joining dungeon groups trying to get gear and they keep having people telling them that their GS is low. Well yeah, because you insist that I click greed on something that would improve it and then you get it instead and sell it for a profit, instead of letting me have something that I actually do "need" to improve my character and to make my contributions to the group better.
People just instantly react to need rolls as if they are a bad thing, but it makes sense to roll need on something that will actually be an improvement over something you're wearing. I've never cared if someone rolls need on something they actually need and you people should really stop being so closed minded about it and instantly kicking people as soon as they roll need. Maybe try inspecting them. See how half their gear is still blue items? Maybe just calm down and let that person roll need on an item they actually do "need."
This was very frustrating for me when I first got to 60. I'm a new player. I don't have alts with millions of AD to buy a set of gear for me. I had to keep running dungeons over and over and over again in the hopes that the one thing that drops for my class there would. And it rarely did. I ended up getting most of my gear just from daily chests or DD. I was still using a dragonbone icon, and a nice purple one droppped. I needed. I should have. I actually did "need" it. I was going to equip it. But nope. Kicked instantly. Party chat instantly filled with NEED comments and "ou have been kicked." Thanks, guys. Nice playing with you.
I think a lot of this mentality come from the older players who truthfully don't need anything that drops. They just want it because they can sell or refine it. Well great, but we aren't all new players, and that even more likely to be true for PUGs when that's the easiest way for you to get geared up once you hit 60. Chill out and take a look at that person's character sheet. Maybe they really do need it more than you do.
Comments
The topic is about people abusing vote kick to satisfy their greed in this game, and it's wrong.
Actually I believe the topic is a person being kicked for not conforming to a rule he/she didn't know about.
Hence the title "Is there an unwritten looting law?", which is also wrong but defiantly have nothing to do with someone being greedy, But a lot about lack of communication.
If the rule would have being you only allowed to walk in reverse, and a person would have been kicked for it, it would have been the same situation, nothing to do with greed.
But, yes, the original topic is also not about merits/demerits of greed/need.
Don't like it? Don't join.
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LOL -- I agree completely. Sooo many missed items because you chose greed and then someone else chose need. So many kicked players that you can't finish the dungeon w/out. It's just goofy.
It happened to me last week...
I normally always choose Greed just cause.
That said I rarely win any rolls
But
Last week I chose need on two purples I really needed/wanted ... Things went north from there.
There was lots of angry party chats about what a jerk (or worse) I was
I was clueless.
But
A very nice ( but annoyed) priestess told me you always choose Greed on purple stuff.
I felt bad... worse cause I still did not get anything
I was told that it was ok to need blues but not purples.
Fair enough
I have been living by that ever since...
BTW
Did I mention that even with Need I still lost both Items?
Urlord
Yeah, this assumes every player has infinite time to spend in-game. If I'm running a dungeon to get a pair of GWF greaves, and then they drop, I'm not giving them to a CW and hope I get them from a chest sometime later. (Especially if it's FH! Can't stand that dungeon.) I have TERRIBLE luck with drops and no where near the available play time as others.
Frankly I don't have a problem with it...
There are a few secs at the beginning where the party leader could send out ... "Greed on Purples" or something like that so everyone knows
then I would agree do not join but is is a tad late then.
Some folks gather parties and then hit a DD. then it would be best to state the rules before they hit the DD
Just my thoughts
Urlord
Geaz! That's intense. I run Dungeons sometimes and pass on everything (if I'm running w/ a bunch of 12k). I just like to kill monsters.
You don't know you don't have a chance. It's possible you may have the only chance.
If you are in a group, and you are unclear about the loot rules, always always ask. Also, always have loot rolls in your chat window so you can pay attention. If I am the person setting the group, I always try to say something like, 'greed on purples, please' right before I queue us. If you're not lead...ask. And don't listen to people saying not to pug. There are plenty of helpful and fun people out there who will take you on dungeon runs. I rarely have bad experiences when picking someone up from lfg or putting myself out there for a group.
Exactly.
This is false logic. You say that needing is taking the chance for loot from others. But consider this: Forcing greed upon someone is a selfish attempt at taking the chance for the loot that they can actually use and not only sell/salvage from them. Which is pure greed, and even more disgusting if you are trying to convince everyone that "need" person is is actually greedy, not the "greed" one.
And kicking in such situation should be bannable, trying to justify it is just wrong.
Well, the party has to all agree at the beginning on the loot rules by: COMMUNICATION! If the party does not agree, then there is no need to go on. Forcing people to carry 10k GS pugs in a dungeon is a selfish attempt by the pugs as well. It goes both ways. Communication is key.
The only unwritten looting law is, "Don't loot in combat!" No one wants their screen filled up with trash greens in the middle of a fight.
note to devs:
Please fix this!
To be honest, I pass on just about everything in most runs, simply because I am usually only after the AD I need to finish some high-end project (refining, buying a new artifact, whatever). I enjoy doing dungeons, and run them frequently and I rarely even use a key on the end chest (not worth it once I have the gear).
But if I am looking to make AD, then running in a Need run is counter productive.
If I want a greed run I make a private party
ppl that queue and force a greed run on you are a***h***,thats why there is LFG. so you can make your own greed party
LFG is that you can make what ever party you like
ppl that want to run greed must learn this ,thats why there is a LFG
because when you queue you play by the games rule ,and thats you can greed need or pass
It is common sense, but clearly it is lost on the Dev's as there is no greed only mode.
Whether you queue or use the LFG, you are put into a party with other human beings. Not everyone has the same opinion as you do. The party must therefore agree upon whether it is a need or greed run. Don't like the decision? Join another party until you do.
Remember, this is an MMO. You are partying up with other people. Communicate, collaborate and cooperate on making a decision! It really is that simple.
Also, my preference is for greed all. Enchants, shards, you name it. The only time I make an exception to this is if someone actually wants the gear. I'll toss a piece of RG to an HR (in the party) in some T1 who needs it to finish the set even if I somehow win the roll. That being said, if an HR in a full set of RG decides to need on another piece of RG (usually in the hundreds of thousands of AD), I'll get very perturbed; but likely just ignore them & never run with them again. I don't agree with kicking anyone over loot rules.
Be honest, if you're just selling it or feeding it to an artifact or artifact gear, choose greed. If you actually need the stuff, communicate with your group. I've never seen anyone refuse a request to turn over a piece of gear to someone who will actually use it, even in a pug.
But kicking because of a need roll (inadvertant or otherwise) is just plain unethical & all you do is damage your own credibility.
There is a channel to report abusers of vote kick or ninja looters to other players. This channel is [Dirtbag Avoidance]. Not used by many at this time, but I hope it can become a tool to ignore some of the more caustic elements in the game. Note that this channel does not replace reporting someone to the dev's, it's just something to help out the good, honest players.
BTW: Almost all the runs I do at this time are /legit runs. 90% of the people on that channel are pretty nice players & good humored to boot. If you are a caustic member of the NW game, please stay away from us. If you're like us, please join, we'd love to have you.
Watched a guy need on all enchants during the double refinement weekend. Was a bit annoying. I asked at beginning of run "all greed", get the typical 1 person response. ofc I passed on everything like I typically do in a dungeon run. But saw the person who agreed, "sigh" as the dude repeatedly hit need.
Make sure all respond to yes or no.
I think it had to do with double refinement weekend. Which really brings out the actual definition of "greed".
Was a legit run. But yah 90% are good people there.
edit o i meant all greed not all need woops
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Hit shift 2 on everything.
If someone needs on something ask for clarification.
Whomever made the group should clarify. You do what they say.
Problem solved, but in general:
NEED is for BoP items
Greed is for everything else
Unless otherwise specified.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Items you can equip you can loot from the chest.
The item that is looting, is BoE, that means everybody can sell it.
It means, by choosing need, you get the item (often worth 400k), depriving parties a chance to get this item and sell it.
You increase avg ~80k (20% of 400k) into 400k, decreasing others ~80k into 0k.
This behavious should be bannable and if we cannot ban, we still can kick and we kick and always will kick some jerk who tries to get rich in cost of others.
Edit:
Increasing self change to get item from 20% to 100%, decreasing others change from 20% to 0% is and always will be selfish independing on what do you want to do with this item.
PS
If you want to go for item, go with your guild / friends. If they cannot, make a "need" run. Need runs are not so common as "greed" runs, but the "need" run rule is that you need if you want. If you really need some item and cannot find a "need" of dungeon /skirmish you want, you can always ask if you can need if boss will drop the item you need. I used to pass on this rule if the ask was made at the beginning of a dungeon. You can also offer 20% of loot drop after passing the item, then pay out after passes. I run a few such dungeons, most MC, when the needed loot was icon for ioun of allure (actually overall the worst for power stacking). Also, you can meet a "split" runs, what means, party leader takes all items and sells them, then aplits AD into parties, but these runs are rare as many jerks doesn`t payout parties after item is sold and the 2nd reson is that the fee is payed twice and often not worth to make "split" runs in comp. to normal, green runs.
There is a good advice, to clarify what kind of run it is at its beggining, you will often see "it is a green run", but if nobody says anything, feel free to ask. Otherwise, always assume it is a greed run and in case of any confusion, just ask parties.
Sorry I but I find that a bad assumption. Even if people agree with your ethical viewpoint there must have been many new players who got rudely kicked for the simple reason that they were not aware of this unwritten rule (and some of these could have been rage quitters who otherwise could have stayed and provided income to Cryptic). Then there there is a the problem of different languages, my first experience with this rude kicking experience was with people who spoke Turkish, I was kicked, afterwards after doing a google translate of what they said did I discover this unwritten rule.
Also let me make it clear that I agree that people should generally agree upfront what the party should be doing, I don't think many disagree with that. The real issue here is if the rules of the game should be overridden by what seems to a kind of socialist consensus, the default assumption should be that the rules of the game are followed first. Kicking people who play the game as it was designed is abuse.
+ it very rare on the amount of run that you ended with a player that really need the equip, especially since the equip is often availlable on the chest and the only difference is the boss drop is not attached and can be sell on the AH.
The only rare case where people really need it is often on t2 equip and it really a a better move to sell it on the AH and trying to get it on the chest.
So unless you are a fresh beginner with low gear and where you need to speak with temate on the beggining, assum it a greed run.
the only except case is tuern where every one do need.
And the i need (to sell it) argument is availlable for 99.99 % of people who may are more advanced but still need AD to continue
majority of all purple drops are actually extremely cheap and fetch more from salvaging. i don't consider those valuable enough to kick people over. there is a good period of time where these cheap purple drops are good upgrades for many beginners and it's silly to be kicked for making a rational decision.
the expensive drops that can sell for 200k+ are rare and possibly may never be seen while getting an entire tier 2 set. i still have yet to see a belt drop from dragon skirmish/dungeon. in fact, draconic gear drops more frequently than tier 2 sets and everyone needs those to sell for as much as 400k.
also, i am of the opinion that needing an expensive drop if it's a part of my set is a good deal. who cares if i can make a lot of ad when i am tired of running that dungeon 20+ times with no luck. also, tier 2 sets are generally dropped on the last boss and kicking means little at that point.
but ofc the only right way to 'protect' yourself is to ask beforehand. and even in this case..you know..times of Valindra's Crown was around 5-6 mil i saw the drop once and ofc was kicked immediately by the friendly speaking co-parties who were joking the whole run
stick to the guild/legit and always ask.
lot may are cheap, but you lack one point in our reasoning, it's drop for chest are attached to account mean you need to refine them to clean your inventory once you get those you want, mean you get non refined AD. daily refined AD is 24k And even if you do not play a lot, once you are mostly equiped, it can become easy to get full of non refined AD, so even an object that can be sell 3k while 10 refined, still better. ( i have practically one week non refined AD in my main).
i share my purples between my characters so i can rake in up to 96k refined ad daily if i really want to farm that much. drops from the chest can stay on main while everything else can be shared. BoE drops are generally worth more rough ad and are more frequent anyways.
what ever you prefer (sell it to ah or send it to other character) doesn't change the fact that only non attached item can be used. So since the main source of non attached item is drop, making it greed for all party so every one have same chance to get drop and equality is better + that also solve the problem of having some class drop that cost higher price than some other.
On the amount of run i've done. the case of someone really need something and not to sell it is very rare (how many time some says but i need it and when you check their equip they already have better equiped)
People just instantly react to need rolls as if they are a bad thing, but it makes sense to roll need on something that will actually be an improvement over something you're wearing. I've never cared if someone rolls need on something they actually need and you people should really stop being so closed minded about it and instantly kicking people as soon as they roll need. Maybe try inspecting them. See how half their gear is still blue items? Maybe just calm down and let that person roll need on an item they actually do "need."
This was very frustrating for me when I first got to 60. I'm a new player. I don't have alts with millions of AD to buy a set of gear for me. I had to keep running dungeons over and over and over again in the hopes that the one thing that drops for my class there would. And it rarely did. I ended up getting most of my gear just from daily chests or DD. I was still using a dragonbone icon, and a nice purple one droppped. I needed. I should have. I actually did "need" it. I was going to equip it. But nope. Kicked instantly. Party chat instantly filled with NEED comments and "ou have been kicked." Thanks, guys. Nice playing with you.
I think a lot of this mentality come from the older players who truthfully don't need anything that drops. They just want it because they can sell or refine it. Well great, but we aren't all new players, and that even more likely to be true for PUGs when that's the easiest way for you to get geared up once you hit 60. Chill out and take a look at that person's character sheet. Maybe they really do need it more than you do.