For the X-th time. When GREED is agreed upon, most ppl will kick you, when you NEED. Why? Bc THEY greeded on items for up to 1 million AD (even when they could press need) and YOU might have been the lucky guy getting them.
Even when running with friends, and a BOP item drops, that I can use and they can only refine, I ASK, if I can need on it. I have NEVER, even with PuGs, been told, no we need the RAD.
If you really need a item, ASK, if you are allowed to need in a GREEDRUN. If it is not a high value item, most times you will get a 'ok'.
I allways search for greedruns and I ask for the lootrules, if I dont know the group.
A party are 5 ppl, not just you and 4 ppl helping you, to get whatever you want.
It can be a pretty arduous task for a newcomer to get geared up. They keep joining dungeon groups trying to get gear and they keep having people telling them that their GS is low. Well yeah, because you insist that I click greed on something that would improve it and then you get it instead and sell it for a profit, instead of letting me have something that I actually do "need" to improve my character and to make my contributions to the group better.
People just instantly react to need rolls as if they are a bad thing, but it makes sense to roll need on something that will actually be an improvement over something you're wearing. I've never cared if someone rolls need on something they actually need and you people should really stop being so closed minded about it and instantly kicking people as soon as they roll need. Maybe try inspecting them. See how half their gear is still blue items? Maybe just calm down and let that person roll need on an item they actually do "need."
This was very frustrating for me when I first got to 60. I'm a new player. I don't have alts with millions of AD to buy a set of gear for me. I had to keep running dungeons over and over and over again in the hopes that the one thing that drops for my class there would. And it rarely did. I ended up getting most of my gear just from daily chests or DD. I was still using a dragonbone icon, and a nice purple one droppped. I needed. I should have. I actually did "need" it. I was going to equip it. But nope. Kicked instantly. Party chat instantly filled with NEED comments and "ou have been kicked." Thanks, guys. Nice playing with you.
I think a lot of this mentality come from the older players who truthfully don't need anything that drops. They just want it because they can sell or refine it. Well great, but we aren't all new players, and that even more likely to be true for PUGs when that's the easiest way for you to get geared up once you hit 60. Chill out and take a look at that person's character sheet. Maybe they really do need it more than you do.
insulting older player that are mainly the reason why you can find a full T1 set now for 4 k Ad per piece. And the greed/ need part have mainly nothing to do with those who ask for 30 millions GS because they want to do it as quick as possible. As long as you have a key or doing your dongeon every one will get his loot on the chest.
And maybe you think ho i need it i don't want to make greed, but also you you can do your dongeon with only player on your equip lvl and try to get it to the end. greed part also when you goes on pick up is the reason you can get some high lvl player with you and can do the dongeon (good luck to do most t2 with a group of 10-11k player). + I would say one major thing, choising greed doesn't mean you can't get the loot. If you want a quick help find a guild and ask to be help to get equipment, if it a good guild not more than 2 days to get your full t2 equip. and one last thing you think older player don,t need the drop but same as you we also need it but to get AD to get higher equip too and it cost a ton of them.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
It can be a pretty arduous task for a newcomer to get geared up. They keep joining dungeon groups trying to get gear and they keep having people telling them that their GS is low. Well yeah, because you insist that I click greed on something that would improve it and then you get it instead and sell it for a profit, instead of letting me have something that I actually do "need" to improve my character and to make my contributions to the group better.
People just instantly react to need rolls as if they are a bad thing, but it makes sense to roll need on something that will actually be an improvement over something you're wearing. I've never cared if someone rolls need on something they actually need and you people should really stop being so closed minded about it and instantly kicking people as soon as they roll need. Maybe try inspecting them. See how half their gear is still blue items? Maybe just calm down and let that person roll need on an item they actually do "need."
This was very frustrating for me when I first got to 60. I'm a new player. I don't have alts with millions of AD to buy a set of gear for me. I had to keep running dungeons over and over and over again in the hopes that the one thing that drops for my class there would. And it rarely did. I ended up getting most of my gear just from daily chests or DD. I was still using a dragonbone icon, and a nice purple one droppped. I needed. I should have. I actually did "need" it. I was going to equip it. But nope. Kicked instantly. Party chat instantly filled with NEED comments and "ou have been kicked." Thanks, guys. Nice playing with you.
I think a lot of this mentality come from the older players who truthfully don't need anything that drops. They just want it because they can sell or refine it. Well great, but we aren't all new players, and that even more likely to be true for PUGs when that's the easiest way for you to get geared up once you hit 60. Chill out and take a look at that person's character sheet. Maybe they really do need it more than you do.
You can run T1 dungeons with only green or blue gear. More importantly, run Dread Ring and get your purple armor and main-hand item. If you ignore the boss drops, and just focus on the end chests during DD or w/ a key, you can easily get a complete armor set.
It is a strawman to assume that boss drops are the only way to get geared up.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
If you ignore the boss drops, and just focus on the end chests during DD or w/ a key, you can easily get a complete armor set.
i will repeat after myself. sometimes you're getting a bit tired of 20+ runs to SP/ToS..rng is such rng.
so in case of gearing up only guild runs is the way to go in my opinion. when ppl that can solo t2 help you out to fight against rng and not even mobs.
i will repeat after myself. sometimes you're getting a bit tired of 20+ runs to SP/ToS..rng is such rng.
so in case of gearing up only guild runs is the way to go in my opinion. when ppl that can solo t2 help you out to fight against rng and not even mobs.
It's not like you stop running t2s after you got all pieces of your set. So, why not do 20+? That way you can earn some ad to buy the piece you want or save up for something better
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited December 2014
You are quite literally a hundred times more likely to have the chest give you your loot than have that specific item drop.
As such it is much more ideal to wait for the chest to give you the option (normally takes less than 10 runs) and let everybody have the chance to profit off the item which can actually be sold to people who have less patience than my five year old brother.
If you win the drop great you can either choose to pay yourself with the item or do what many people including myself do, sell it and try again for the chest.
Additionally by not worrying about that specific drop and simply having every person have a 1/5 chance of getting the drop it doesn't have to be that item or your class to help further you towards your goal because you can use the currency earned by selling whatever gear drops to buy the gear you actually want later.
That's how normal games deal with this situation. I have never encountered an MMO community which is so hell bent on getting THEIR items. Is this a side effect of too much PnP experience or something?
Normally in MMOs you run content to earn items with people. Just because the item you want drops doesn't mean the people who helped you (likely carried you) shouldn't care you just said "mine!" to the drop that could have helped them on their goals mainly because you were too impatient to run the dungeon a few more times...
The thing is people don't normally earn items in MMOs...they earn currency to buy their items.
Simply because when you run with people it is completely narrowminded to disregard their participation and refuse them a chance to further their own goals.
Once you have a full set of gear goals don't go away...they just no longer drop from dungeons. They become completely dependent on currency. Hence why very few experienced players will opt to equip a boss drop. They'll be running dungeons for currency long after they get their items and it's far harder to make the currency than get the loot out of the chest.
The only thing worse than somebody who completely disregards economics in games is when the game allows people who make bad economic decisions to waste your time and resources with no return.
As always it's one thing to go in with a group of friends, guild members or when you communicate you want to be impatient and uncaring towards the time, effort and goals of others...
And another thing entirely to do so to random strangers.
If Cryptic actually introduced a greed all (want/pass) setting I have full confidence the Pro-Need players would truly have something to complain about because it would be more difficult to form a need party than joining a LFG group with less than 10K GS.
And once again, most of the people who respond to this threat is people from the legit channel. This is people who runs dungeons on a all greed decision made before entering, if you say you don't agree with the all greed policy they believe in, you are they give the choice either accept it or don't run with them, basically agree with our choices or leave. Most of the people in this channel is elitist, that would run with you if they can something in return, they won't do it out of charity, or for fun as any game was intended. They created a separate channel for their kind of people and everyone is fine with that, but please stay there.
A lot of people who run dungeons in this game want a return of investment, and don't you dare "Need" item if you're a new player because they might not get chance for some AD, and if you do they "CAN" and they "WILL" abuse the voting kicking system their get the way. This kind of mentality is really sickening, it's a far cry from what the community was at one point, where you could actually run dungeons and have fun, and not worry about this bs elitist <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I understand why people do greed runs, when a group come together before a dungeon and communicate with each other what the intention is for the run, by all means that is fine. Where the problem comes in the communication between parties and the individuals who create the parties who fail to communicate to the team.
Pugging is one of the area's where you can still need an item if you wish to do it, but be prepared for the type of team the game can put in you in, but that is one of the risks of pugging. But in turn is a nice challenge because the game can put you into a beginner team, but that is where the fun come in, you all fight together and go forward. The reason for playing the game, then one of the elist "....." comes along and ruin the whole run, by saying "GREED"........sigh. You want greed go create a group and do your greed run, stop ruining the fun some people are trying to have.
It's not like you stop running t2s after you got all pieces of your set. So, why not do 20+? That way you can earn some ad to buy the piece you want or save up for something better
i don't redo them once i finish my sets. maybe pirates for a quick run, but that's it. i prefer to just do dailies for ad and maybe farm dragon skirmish/dungeon for a rare purple drop that can be sold where everyone can need if they want.
Additionally by not worrying about that specific drop and simply having every person have a 1/5 chance of getting the drop it doesn't have to be that item or your class to help further you towards your goal because you can use the currency earned by selling whatever gear drops to buy the gear you actually want later.
That's how normal games deal with this situation. I have never encountered an MMO community which is so hell bent on getting THEIR items. Is this a side effect of too much PnP experience or something?
i come from eden eternal where people call 1-2 item drops in raids so as to guarantee a higher chance of getting what they want. need what you call and greed is done for all other drops. works out well since like over a dozen yellow equips can drop in each raid.
what ever you prefer (sell it to ah or send it to other character) doesn't change the fact that only non attached item can be used. So since the main source of non attached item is drop, making it greed for all party so every one have same chance to get drop and equality is better + that also solve the problem of having some class drop that cost higher price than some other.
On the amount of run i've done. the case of someone really need something and not to sell it is very rare (how many time some says but i need it and when you check their equip they already have better equiped)
not speaking for myself but people who are gearing up and actually need the gear. in fact, i will even hand over loot to a beginner if i won a need roll on a weapon/armor they could use (i mostly do need runs).
they are kinda frequent since this game still reels in new players, but you won't see them unless you random queue since they don't meet the pre-requisites for most lfg groups and don't know about legit. they also just gear up starting in tier 1s rather than using blues and high lvl enchants to boost their gs immediately.
never saw a well-geared person actually say they need a drop. they just silently need and either get kicked or the entire group becomes a need-run.
guess my perspective is different since i never ask for much in lfg except the bare minimum to join.
I am not on the /legit channel and I run the vast majority of the time with LFG out of the PE.
Look, we all have goals to meet in gearing a character that are beyond a simple gear set:
Lesser Soul-Forged: 200,000 AD
Blue Stone of Allure: 550,000 AD
and if you start at the Lesser level for Vorpal, another 200,000 AD. Perfect is 5.5 Million AD.
Artifact Upgrade from Blue to Purple, Potency Stone at 100,000 AD from the Wondrous Bazaar.
If you want to build either the Fallen Dragon weapon or the Fomorian weapon you are faced with costs over 1 million AD for either, when you add in the cost of the Professional Assets.
If you want to PvP after 60, you need at least a Blue Mount. Epic Mounts can decide victory more often than you think. That's a few more million.
And if you don't want to use your credit card, you must sell on the Auction House.
So that's where the unwritten rule for Greed is coming from. Everyone Needs something.
T1s are still generally Needs because it's understood you are gearing. I will kick people who Need a set they are wearing. Please.
T2s are generally Epic Greed, either PUG or LFG. Everyone Needs something.
Malabog and Valindra you can Need your BoP offhands. Work out Armor sets before the boss, if you want that set. I never mind passing to another CW who says please.
Green- Blue and Epic Marks-Stones are Need.
I get kicked for a drop maybe 1 in 100 runs (usually CN). Blacklist and move on.
Fardelver's Crypt and Dwarf King are Greed. That's where I see most people get kicked for Needing. Rolling Need when you have full T2 on T1 gear? Please.
But I do always state the rules at the start of the run. I've never kicked someone for a Need roll who didn't get a fair warning. But that's really quite rare. Once a month or so.
But the most kicking I've done in my life was in the last Skirmish event. 37 people who thought they were going to AFK while the rest of us fought. We get to the end boss and your damage is 0? Please.
But the most kicking I've done in my life was in the last Skirmish event. 37 people who thought they were going to AFK while the rest of us fought. We get to the end boss and your damage is 0? Please.
I just remembered the AFK guy in a skirmish, I had no lead and asked multiple times for his kick. 20 sec. before we where done he returned and complained, that it would be rude to kick him, he just had to make a phone call. 0% contribution 100% attitude.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited December 2014
i am always looking at paingivers chart through run and see who is strong (probably geared) and who weak. if somebody need something for example at fardelvers i inspect him and then decide if he needs item. Or is ninja or too greedy. damage done and current gear will give you enough info. sometimes i write to the chat "let him. he is weak"
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
The word "greed" just means the people trying to enforce some made up bs rules upon others are greedy. Don't ever pug in this game, the community is just toxic/terrible and selfish. If you need certain items, run with the legit community guys and girls. But remember, never ever pug. (Unless you want to be confronted with endless stupidity and selfishness.)
I run with legit as well as my guild and I can say whilst there is no need to pug, I do it often and it can be enjoyable. To say that community is toxic, terrible and selfish is a broad based generalization, which might be true for a larger percentage of people there then on legit, but it by no means encompasses all of them. Pugging can be fun, as sometimes you end up with people who are nice, or people who are new to the game and need help and guidance, which you as a more experienced person, (assuming you nice) can provide. True, you also get the bad groups, but usually when you join a random group you can enforce some degree of loot rules over the party anyhow. The only problem with pug groups is the time it can sometimes take for simple dungeons, as because there are a lot of bad or inexperienced players who use the pug system, you often end up taking a lot more time then you would with a legit/guild team.
i am always looking at paingivers chart through run and see who is strong (probably geared) and who weak. if somebody need something for example at fardelvers i inspect him and then decide if he needs item. Or is ninja or too greedy. damage done and current gear will give you enough info. sometimes i write to the chat "let him. he is weak"
Lol paingiver's chart is not a good way to judge things at all. There are some really good players who might be playing a lower geared control wizard in a generally bad group of players, who easily takes number 1 paingiver. A 10k gs CW with lacklustre gear and a strong understanding of the class can do really well in pve content, even against properly geared but inexperienced/bad players from other classes, or mediocre players from other classes. As for judging off of gear...well, even if they do "need" that piece of gear, they can probably get that piece, or better, at the chest by the end of the dungeon and also, do you have every single class at level 60 properly built with a decent understanding of all of them? I know I don't and I don't think many people do and as of such, you probably can't accurately judge wether or not they actually "need" that piece of gear.
And urlord, when you pug, you do dungeons with random people, generally using the random queue feature but it can be extended to a broader sense to include LFG.
PUG= Pick Up Group. Meaning a random group of people with no inherent connection to each other than the fact that they all happen to be in the same group.
Of course it is possible for a group of 2-4 people to "PUG" the last spot, but you should get the idea by now.
My point was that the things you are given the chance to roll need on are often things that you genuinely do need in order to improve your contribution to the group. You aren't the only one profiting from this, everyone you play with is. In the case of my healer that I was talking about, the benefit isn't just that MY gearscore is improved. The benefit to YOU is that I heal better, don't die as quickly, and as a result the experience is improved for me AND you. The need option is there for that reason and if people are using it FOR THAT REASON, you really should think twice before instantly kicking them. At least just look and see if that item genuinely is something they "need" and are going to use.
Otherwise, please tell me, why the heck is the need option even there at all?
There is only one looting law: party maker's call or (in case of random PuG/queue) anything goes. Dont like it, leave. Sure there is always a space for an agreement but, that works with ppl u know (or take the risk).
I, as well, recently experienced kick votes with "ninja" in description during random queues, even that nobody asked for nor suggested loot rules. For me, random queue is need all, custom party is leaders call.
A bit nosy NW-DKG7E99X6
"Hardcore" exploration journey and dungeon crawl. Read its description prior to trying it.
Comments
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Even when running with friends, and a BOP item drops, that I can use and they can only refine, I ASK, if I can need on it. I have NEVER, even with PuGs, been told, no we need the RAD.
If you really need a item, ASK, if you are allowed to need in a GREEDRUN. If it is not a high value item, most times you will get a 'ok'.
I allways search for greedruns and I ask for the lootrules, if I dont know the group.
A party are 5 ppl, not just you and 4 ppl helping you, to get whatever you want.
/thread
btw tog I completely agree with you. But I understand grumbles PoV as well.
Thats why its a perfect example.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
insulting older player that are mainly the reason why you can find a full T1 set now for 4 k Ad per piece. And the greed/ need part have mainly nothing to do with those who ask for 30 millions GS because they want to do it as quick as possible. As long as you have a key or doing your dongeon every one will get his loot on the chest.
And maybe you think ho i need it i don't want to make greed, but also you you can do your dongeon with only player on your equip lvl and try to get it to the end. greed part also when you goes on pick up is the reason you can get some high lvl player with you and can do the dongeon (good luck to do most t2 with a group of 10-11k player). + I would say one major thing, choising greed doesn't mean you can't get the loot. If you want a quick help find a guild and ask to be help to get equipment, if it a good guild not more than 2 days to get your full t2 equip. and one last thing you think older player don,t need the drop but same as you we also need it but to get AD to get higher equip too and it cost a ton of them.
You can run T1 dungeons with only green or blue gear. More importantly, run Dread Ring and get your purple armor and main-hand item. If you ignore the boss drops, and just focus on the end chests during DD or w/ a key, you can easily get a complete armor set.
It is a strawman to assume that boss drops are the only way to get geared up.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
i will repeat after myself. sometimes you're getting a bit tired of 20+ runs to SP/ToS..rng is such rng.
so in case of gearing up only guild runs is the way to go in my opinion. when ppl that can solo t2 help you out to fight against rng and not even mobs.
WTB Class Reroll please
As such it is much more ideal to wait for the chest to give you the option (normally takes less than 10 runs) and let everybody have the chance to profit off the item which can actually be sold to people who have less patience than my five year old brother.
If you win the drop great you can either choose to pay yourself with the item or do what many people including myself do, sell it and try again for the chest.
Additionally by not worrying about that specific drop and simply having every person have a 1/5 chance of getting the drop it doesn't have to be that item or your class to help further you towards your goal because you can use the currency earned by selling whatever gear drops to buy the gear you actually want later.
That's how normal games deal with this situation. I have never encountered an MMO community which is so hell bent on getting THEIR items. Is this a side effect of too much PnP experience or something?
Normally in MMOs you run content to earn items with people. Just because the item you want drops doesn't mean the people who helped you (likely carried you) shouldn't care you just said "mine!" to the drop that could have helped them on their goals mainly because you were too impatient to run the dungeon a few more times...
The thing is people don't normally earn items in MMOs...they earn currency to buy their items.
Simply because when you run with people it is completely narrowminded to disregard their participation and refuse them a chance to further their own goals.
Once you have a full set of gear goals don't go away...they just no longer drop from dungeons. They become completely dependent on currency. Hence why very few experienced players will opt to equip a boss drop. They'll be running dungeons for currency long after they get their items and it's far harder to make the currency than get the loot out of the chest.
The only thing worse than somebody who completely disregards economics in games is when the game allows people who make bad economic decisions to waste your time and resources with no return.
As always it's one thing to go in with a group of friends, guild members or when you communicate you want to be impatient and uncaring towards the time, effort and goals of others...
And another thing entirely to do so to random strangers.
If Cryptic actually introduced a greed all (want/pass) setting I have full confidence the Pro-Need players would truly have something to complain about because it would be more difficult to form a need party than joining a LFG group with less than 10K GS.
A lot of people who run dungeons in this game want a return of investment, and don't you dare "Need" item if you're a new player because they might not get chance for some AD, and if you do they "CAN" and they "WILL" abuse the voting kicking system their get the way. This kind of mentality is really sickening, it's a far cry from what the community was at one point, where you could actually run dungeons and have fun, and not worry about this bs elitist <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I understand why people do greed runs, when a group come together before a dungeon and communicate with each other what the intention is for the run, by all means that is fine. Where the problem comes in the communication between parties and the individuals who create the parties who fail to communicate to the team.
Pugging is one of the area's where you can still need an item if you wish to do it, but be prepared for the type of team the game can put in you in, but that is one of the risks of pugging. But in turn is a nice challenge because the game can put you into a beginner team, but that is where the fun come in, you all fight together and go forward. The reason for playing the game, then one of the elist "....." comes along and ruin the whole run, by saying "GREED"........sigh. You want greed go create a group and do your greed run, stop ruining the fun some people are trying to have.
i don't redo them once i finish my sets. maybe pirates for a quick run, but that's it. i prefer to just do dailies for ad and maybe farm dragon skirmish/dungeon for a rare purple drop that can be sold where everyone can need if they want.
i come from eden eternal where people call 1-2 item drops in raids so as to guarantee a higher chance of getting what they want. need what you call and greed is done for all other drops. works out well since like over a dozen yellow equips can drop in each raid.
granted, everything yellow there is bound
not speaking for myself but people who are gearing up and actually need the gear. in fact, i will even hand over loot to a beginner if i won a need roll on a weapon/armor they could use (i mostly do need runs).
they are kinda frequent since this game still reels in new players, but you won't see them unless you random queue since they don't meet the pre-requisites for most lfg groups and don't know about legit. they also just gear up starting in tier 1s rather than using blues and high lvl enchants to boost their gs immediately.
never saw a well-geared person actually say they need a drop. they just silently need and either get kicked or the entire group becomes a need-run.
guess my perspective is different since i never ask for much in lfg except the bare minimum to join.
Look, we all have goals to meet in gearing a character that are beyond a simple gear set:
Lesser Soul-Forged: 200,000 AD
Blue Stone of Allure: 550,000 AD
and if you start at the Lesser level for Vorpal, another 200,000 AD. Perfect is 5.5 Million AD.
Artifact Upgrade from Blue to Purple, Potency Stone at 100,000 AD from the Wondrous Bazaar.
If you want to build either the Fallen Dragon weapon or the Fomorian weapon you are faced with costs over 1 million AD for either, when you add in the cost of the Professional Assets.
If you want to PvP after 60, you need at least a Blue Mount. Epic Mounts can decide victory more often than you think. That's a few more million.
And if you don't want to use your credit card, you must sell on the Auction House.
So that's where the unwritten rule for Greed is coming from. Everyone Needs something.
T1s are still generally Needs because it's understood you are gearing. I will kick people who Need a set they are wearing. Please.
T2s are generally Epic Greed, either PUG or LFG. Everyone Needs something.
Malabog and Valindra you can Need your BoP offhands. Work out Armor sets before the boss, if you want that set. I never mind passing to another CW who says please.
Green- Blue and Epic Marks-Stones are Need.
I get kicked for a drop maybe 1 in 100 runs (usually CN). Blacklist and move on.
Fardelver's Crypt and Dwarf King are Greed. That's where I see most people get kicked for Needing. Rolling Need when you have full T2 on T1 gear? Please.
But I do always state the rules at the start of the run. I've never kicked someone for a Need roll who didn't get a fair warning. But that's really quite rare. Once a month or so.
But the most kicking I've done in my life was in the last Skirmish event. 37 people who thought they were going to AFK while the rest of us fought. We get to the end boss and your damage is 0? Please.
I just remembered the AFK guy in a skirmish, I had no lead and asked multiple times for his kick. 20 sec. before we where done he returned and complained, that it would be rude to kick him, he just had to make a phone call. 0% contribution 100% attitude.
Lol paingiver's chart is not a good way to judge things at all. There are some really good players who might be playing a lower geared control wizard in a generally bad group of players, who easily takes number 1 paingiver. A 10k gs CW with lacklustre gear and a strong understanding of the class can do really well in pve content, even against properly geared but inexperienced/bad players from other classes, or mediocre players from other classes. As for judging off of gear...well, even if they do "need" that piece of gear, they can probably get that piece, or better, at the chest by the end of the dungeon and also, do you have every single class at level 60 properly built with a decent understanding of all of them? I know I don't and I don't think many people do and as of such, you probably can't accurately judge wether or not they actually "need" that piece of gear.
And urlord, when you pug, you do dungeons with random people, generally using the random queue feature but it can be extended to a broader sense to include LFG.
PUG= Pick Up Group. Meaning a random group of people with no inherent connection to each other than the fact that they all happen to be in the same group.
Of course it is possible for a group of 2-4 people to "PUG" the last spot, but you should get the idea by now.
Otherwise, please tell me, why the heck is the need option even there at all?
I, as well, recently experienced kick votes with "ninja" in description during random queues, even that nobody asked for nor suggested loot rules. For me, random queue is need all, custom party is leaders call.