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Calling out our lovely D&D experts (Vampire class)
notsheriffsrs
Banned Users Posts: 396 Bounty Hunter
Hello my beautiful community !
I don't know jack **** about D&D so help me out with my curiosity here.
It's about the Vampire class. Imagine (Imagine) it gets introduced to NW. How would the results be against the existing classes in an 1v1 fight? This is about PVP 1v1 here, not talking about 5v5 utility, but 1v1.
VS CW
VS GWF
VS GF
VS SW
VS TR
VS HR
VS DC
Thoughts ?
I don't know jack **** about D&D so help me out with my curiosity here.
It's about the Vampire class. Imagine (Imagine) it gets introduced to NW. How would the results be against the existing classes in an 1v1 fight? This is about PVP 1v1 here, not talking about 5v5 utility, but 1v1.
VS CW
VS GWF
VS GF
VS SW
VS TR
VS HR
VS DC
Thoughts ?
Post edited by notsheriffsrs on
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[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire
Also, in the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, which is what we're effectively in right now, Vampires are once again a monster and not a class.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
The game we are playing is based on 4th Edition rules, like it or not. So, as much as I hate it, the OP has a point.
Personally, I am NOT in favor of a Vampire Class in any way, shape or form. I appologize to the OP, I respect your opinion that the Vampire Class is in 4th Edition and should be considered for a Class option in Neverwinter, but I dearly hope that all the other possible classes available to the Devs take precedence.
I just want you guys to tell me what do you think if they faced off the current classes.
Is it that hard?
There's no way to know, as we don't have any specifics on what they would be like in Neverwinter. Besides, they'd be like any encounter or player. You'd have to find their weaknesses and protect against their strengths while they're doing the same.
So, if I have to answer such a question. I'd say they're all equal as long as they're all equally skilled and geared.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
It may be BASED(very loosely) on 4thed rules, but it is set In Forgotten realms. One of this games biggest selling points is its IP. It would seriously be jumping the shark to introduce a vampire class that totally violates the setting lore.
There are many many setting common classes that have not been developed (Paladin,Monk, Druid, Bard, ad nauseum). Cryptic would have to be insane not to develop these setting rich classes in favor of a 'class' people here for the lore and setting would be apauled at.
As Zeb has mentioned, vampires are not even a race but an affliction. Heck, in the Dragon Rage books there was even a dragon vampire. Lets not forget Manshoon the human vampire archwizard.
GFs were the most useless tanks
HRs were more tanky than tanks, a class you'd presume was squishy
SWs did more healing for the team than DCs
TRs became mediocre strikers
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
But the real problem with 4E vampires is that they start with only ONE healing surge. Whereas even the weakest class got five or six, the vampire got one. They could claim one more by using their encounter power to drain life, doing damage via melee attack and gaining one healing surge. And only one. Oh, and they could also use allies' healing surges -- basically, during a short rest, you could feed on allies to regain hit points.
Since Neverwinter doesn't use healing surges, that's a pretty moot mechanic, and the vampire becomes another stealth-based striker like the Rogue. Well, you may as well just call your Rogue a vampire and go with that. So, how would they work against other classes?
I'm thinking, like a Rogue.
"My attention does not so much wander, as it takes long vacations to foreign locales and meets strange women that leave it crying and broken in the hot, hot sun." :cool:
And for a good-oriented campaign like Neverwinter, will be nonexistent. You would have to play a Good vampire, because we can't be bad guys.
If you liked the vampire from the Elder Scrolls games, you would HATE them for D&D. Hate them with a passion. Kill-it-with-fire passion.
"My attention does not so much wander, as it takes long vacations to foreign locales and meets strange women that leave it crying and broken in the hot, hot sun." :cool:
I will never comprehend this irrational line of thinking which continues to infest the forums day in and day out. Vampires are the trend of the last few years which school girls falling in love with sparkly vampires and shows like True Blood making enough gore and risque conduct to appease the men as well as the decent mix of the two settings that Zeb alluded to earlier known as the Vampire Diaries have been highly successful...
That is not D&D.
When you open up any Monster Manual from any edition under the index you will always find Vampires. They are a MONSTER.
Thinking that because they finally added a single vampire in the game means they will be playable is about as logical as thinking we'll be able to play the game as a lich since Valindra is in the game. In truth it's a travesty they weren't added sooner since, although not being as iconic to D&D as a dragon, they are very much a staple to D&D.
Thay, for instance, is an area which reveres undead. The zombie thralls show this to an extent but it doesn't come close to the reality of the situation. Most of the rulers of Thay are either lich or vampires and in order to be a respected leader by most of high ranking citizens of Thay you must be undead. High ranking families are known to try to befriend and aid vampires just for the glimmer of hope that the vampire might one day turn them.
Despite the Thay lore, though, they are a MONSTER. Period.
Vampirism isn't some state which only effects the body. It consumes the soul. The person you were in life dies when you become a vampire. This isn't a setting where vampires sparkle in the daylight. It's a game which will have vampires suck their bests friends dry without remorse.
This is beyond the obvious issues such as the fact daylight rings DO NOT exist in D&D and unlike Blade you won't find sunblock the mildest bit effective. When you are a vampire you are a monster.
Whether you are a race, class or status effect you are a vampire. A monster. You will be attacked on sight if people discover your true nature. You will burn in the daylight. You will require blood from high races every night.
People like playing the monsters...that's awesome...
I like playing monsters too. I love playing as drow who can come from the underdark and raid surface towns.
What I can't stand is people thinking that a rare status should be given to every player especially when the game doesn't permit them to act appropriately. It is bad enough having every drow in the game being forced to be Drizzt Do'Urden since we do not have separate starting locations or story arcs.
What I can't stand even more than that is to do so haphazardly and think it's not in the least bit unrealistic to ask for it. Do yourself a favor and READ the rules. Even though over the course of time they have released rules for playing a vampire it might as well had disclaimers with big red letters written all over it that said...
2) Your DM better give you hell at every turn for this decision
3) If you have a DM that isn't completely incompetent you will end up killing your entire party because everybody in the world is going to try to kill you, especially priests.
4) Vampires don't sparkle...therefore you ARE evil. Act it.
Please stop asking to play kobolds, vampires, gnolls, minotaurs and whatever other MONSTER you decide to fancy for the day. It's really, in truth, disrespectful to the real fans of the genre.
DCs seeing their healing privileges revoked
GWFs turned into squishy roadrunners wearing palette knives
Vampire as a class works well story-wise as well (the "older" you grow, the stronger you become).
Speculating about the strenghts of a class without seeing it is impossible though...
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
TBH I´ve seen so many opinions in almost 30 years of D&D play that I don´t think the "genre" actually exists...
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
LOL! Nice! That was an awesome discourse! Bravo!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Quoting this again because simply saying, I agree, isn't enough of a statement of agreement.
vampires sparkle too???!?!!?! XD
This isn't twilight, this is dungeons and dragons.
Maybe it may not happen maybe it will, yet I be overjoy to just imagine your expression if it does happen... and since Neverwinter IS an edition on its own it wont matter, I'm sure the people in charge of that stuff will think of a good story for it...
No matter how long discourse you make, or how much you try to explain, or discourage it... People will keep asking for it because its there, they like it, its in Lore (even if it brakes it) and will keep at it...
Anyway, going back to the OP comment that our friend mention, I say it be like any other striker class, with weakness, strengths and unique abilities of its own... If you like to see which of those are, just look up Heroes of Shadow 4th Edition of D&D, there it details more information and will help you visualize a little how it would fare against the other classes.
NOTE: Oh and be mindful and ready to get a bit of resistance, of posting more of 4th edition rare classes like does here, as you can see there seem to be a bit of one sided zealous option on the matter and we don't want them to have a heart attack, we still need our Community Moderators, also don't get discourage that's not their intention as they are only trying to clarify the subject, so keep posting the forums have eyes,ears beyond what people may think.
To regress and go back to 4th edition's lore on Vampires would go against the very lore of the Realms. Which is something I cannot see Ed Greenwood or Salvatore allowing again, since they are and have fixed the blunders made in 4th when WotC tried to take over the lore from them. The Realms are now back in the hands of their creator and notable authors.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
For those who want to turn vampire, climb up a new vampire daily tree. Then the epic ending quest of when you turn vampire in a cult like fashion where your body is transformed. Oh think of the ceremonies in the new vampire club. May spark interest and gain more new members. In this respect, it should be a path you choose and not an easy one.
Naturally, Protectors Enclave wouldn't change for just vampires although that would be cool so you could have a story line that gives the vampire a magic cloak of protection from the sun that automatically fastens to their current gear (storyline...)
Have either strict vampire rules or come up with plots to make it more lenient so the vamps can just play the game normally without consequences although, consequences will bring forth all sorts of complaining, it will be fun to those who want to be more aware of their surroundings and can actually be beneficial to players in the long run as it may enhance skill.
Vampire would be fun.
Oh wow look! When did Simon Cowell decide to become a moderator for a MMO forum? Wow, charmed really I am.
Anyways...so out of curiousity your royal D&D highness...Drow Elf...monster or no?
He is right. I have been playing D&D since 1977. Maybe he got a bit emotional, but I do see his point. All of the "romanticizing" of vampires (and werewolves) in modern books and movies is ridiculous to me, as I am a purist when it comes to lore and legends.
The Drow started as a monster but later became a playable race - and it worked well following the various D&D storylines.
Could Ambi have said things differently? Probably, but I think his intent was very good, just let some pent-up emotion become part of the response. Simple mistake.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Man, I thought I was going to lose my mind when all that Twilight fascination was at peak levels. I found myself thinking a lot about silver bullets and wooden stakes . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Well, let me pose this question.....What about Ravenloft. How does the 5th ED deal with things over there. Or do they at all.
You have to realize my knowledge of D&D dates back to the 3rd edition, honestly maybe more 2nd edition with 3rd coming out right as I became more interested in other things.