I think permatr mechanic is fine
just make some effect so their playstyle not become OP in pvp
Like make them leave a footprint when they step on the node in pvp
So they cannot cap the point just with standing still and do nothing
this can be doble edge sword..
A skill full tr can use this to confused enemy
Only one TR tree can perma. That said, for that tree (Sab) being perma is easier than ever before and now comes with sizeable spike DPS. Given the original 'mission statement' for the TR changes this can only be counted an epic fail.
BTW - ITC no longer gives damage immunity even when used from stealth, so no more perma-immune builds at least.
What ruins this particular game is that one class HR from begun of game kill everyone and there is no anti class for it. That is what ruin game when you fight against class which you don't even have chance to kil. And i don't count HR who can't play.
Rubbish. On release HRs were pretty balanced in PvP and certainly not OP. It was only with the release of the Pathfinder paragon that the problems started.
And the HR now has an anti-class in the Scoundrel TR. And I don't count TRs who don't test on Preview and just QQ all the time.
Rubbish. On release HRs were pretty balanced in PvP and certainly not OP. It was only with the release of the Pathfinder paragon that the problems started.
And the HR now has an anti-class in the Scoundrel TR. And I don't count TRs who don't test on Preview and just QQ all the time.
i agree with most of what you said but i think hunters had roots bypassing all immunites. deft strike still broke it back then, but this was also long before skilled hunters were noticed.
i still remember the huge amount of trash-talk thrown at hunters due to being commonly believed as weak on the forums and the only logs they wanted to prove otherwise was the most cw biased dungeon known as castle never. it was kinda silly.....
We got perma stealth, we got perma block, we got perma dodge, how bout we get perma sprint and perma unstoppable too, then perma dailies, then flight and super speed and we'll call it Dragon Ball Online
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
TR can be in stealth like 99% of a fight and then they have ITC and they can also daze you over and over again. Oh yeah and they have huge damage too.
Big TR nerf incoming in a few days when the devs realize that people will not accept this new TR.
People will not accept new TR like they didn't accept HR right? I really like to see how players crying for the new TR, and you TR haters didn't make posts before for OP HR to be nerfed. I saw HR beating 5 players in Icewind alone, and you didn't cry for that. Well, that is the end now, finally.
Pretty much if you fight a TR with the correct feats Lashing Blade can oneshot pretty much everyone. I sometimes survive it cause I have 47k HP... but that SoD hits me with 10k which kills me.
PB, Intimidation or that CW Storm Spell/cclock are jokes compared to this One Shot party.
Open Beta all over again.
(and I only care about Lashing Blade, not the other stuff from a TR)
TRs explained in the preview thread that if the preview changes were coming live, mod5 TRs would not only OS anything but kill whole 5-ppl red team in a matter of seconds. And they were not talking about Shadow demise.
TRs explained in the preview thread that if the preview changes were coming live, mod5 TRs would not only OS anything but kill whole 5-ppl red team in a matter of seconds. And they were not talking about Shadow demise.
we were exactly talking about shadow of demise, we were fine until that
we were exactly talking about shadow of demise, we were fine until that
fine?! are you kidding?! daze -2 gc- roll - daze - 2 gc roll and you can do that all day without any chance of being caught... not to mention you dont need any kind of crit cause is always 100% chance
fine?! are you kidding?! daze -2 gc- roll - daze - 2 gc roll and you can do that all day without any chance of being caught... not to mention you dont need any kind of crit cause is always 100% chance
and still there were balanced fights, every class now has a from 0 - 100% hp feat except tr.. we basically have to kill people 2-3 times and the problem of being controlled to death with 1 rotation still stands cause no immunity
and still there were balanced fights, every class now has a from 0 - 100% hp feat except tr.. we basically have to kill people 2-3 times and the problem of being controlled to death with 1 rotation still stands cause no immunity
ohh i see: is fine with the other broken things around, but that doesnt make it less broken... I was not joking i was killing 17-16 k gs people with my 10k tr as saboteur and was pretty much nothing they could do: too much speed, too many dodges and i attack when i want while they are dazed not to mention leaving shadow in their aoe to refill my ap. Ohh and i;m doing all of that at 300 latency, a 50 latency you wont even see...
TRs explained in the preview thread that if the preview changes were coming live, mod5 TRs would not only OS anything but kill whole 5-ppl red team in a matter of seconds. And they were not talking about Shadow demise.
Um... no. No we didn't. We were in fact ONLY talking about SoD.
onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
edited November 2014
Shadow Opportunity was the OP feat prior to the recent change made last week where they made SoD godlike OP. Once the nerf hammer hits on SoD, most might just go to Sab for SO Opness until that gets nerf as well.
after the +20% stealth regen no one will go sab ^^
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onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
edited November 2014
If they nerf the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of SoD, they will go to sab because SO does a lot of dmg, especially with WK. The stealth depletion immunity for SoD(although still not really working properly as you still lose stealth from dmg but very little compare to if you did not have it) is very nice, but Sab has 2 ways that they can go back to stealth so that won't be as big of a problem.
Shadow Opportunity was the OP feat prior to the recent change made last week where they made SoD godlike OP. Once the nerf hammer hits on SoD, most might just go to Sab for SO Opness until that gets nerf as well.
SO has a single OP interaction with Bloodbath. All they need to fix is this interaction. SO and Bloodbath individually are not OP.
I've always liked TR but didn't start really loving it until Whisperknife came out.
Whisperknife was some hot fun until various nerfs and changes reduced it to uselessness. Gearscore really fails to matter when you join a dungeon, they see you're Whisperknife and not an Executioner build, and instantly kick you. Not to mention how useless WK was in PvP. No ITC means getting close to anything with damage output is a death sentence. Being fully ranged with nothing to rely on but Disheartening Strike was painful.
Now, SoD brokenness aside, TRs have actually regained some usefulness. The problem is that the changes are ridiculous. As a WK, in Mod 5, it's nearly orgasmic to go into stealth, DS a CW once, and watch it slowly bleed out. I don't have BiS equips, my best artifact is the new Blue Dragon artifact, and my highest enchant is R7. With a normal Vorpal, I nearly 1-shot CWs with a full DS DoT.
I love it but holy **** that's stupid. God forbid I ever get Artifact weapon, Perfect Vorpal, and 6k+ power.
EDIT: On the topic of Permastealth - It's not going anywhere.
Removing permastealth will be a death sentence for TRs as they are now. They lack control, defense, and HP. Sure, you can get tanky but at the expense of another important stat. TR isn't a brawler, that's what GWF is for. Removing permastealth will also be the final nail in the coffin for WK. Might as well remove the paragon path at that point.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
Imo no class or char should be able to solo group content unless they are very overgeared for the encounter. This includes perma-stealth TRs as there is rly not that much skill staying constantly "invisible" and slowly reducing a boss's hp without even getting attacked.
However I do agree that stealth is a very important part of the TR class tho, but I just don't like see it being abused/exploited so ideally if perma-stealth is still going to be an option make it so enemies will only ignore you so long as they are attacking something else, otherwise they will notice you and attack back.
Imo no class or char should be able to solo group content unless they are very overgeared for the encounter. This includes perma-stealth TRs as there is rly not that much skill staying constantly "invisible" and slowly reducing a boss's hp without even getting attacked.
However I do agree that stealth is a very important part of the TR class tho, but I just don't like see it being abused/exploited so ideally if perma-stealth is still going to be an option make it so enemies will only ignore you so long as they are attacking something else, otherwise they will notice you and attack back.
Eh. It requires a lot of skill to press TAB and then.. Well, my bad, that was actually all that is needed. lol :<
...so ideally if perma-stealth is still going to be an option make it so enemies will only ignore you so long as they are attacking something else, otherwise they will notice you and attack back.
So.... this kinda negates the point of having "stealth" then doesn't it? If they can see you...
I think what you are trying to say is that you want stealth not to be stealth... but be stealth?! Also... by the way, bosses CAN see you... and it can be very difficult in some cases.
I would be ok with stealth being removed if you get hit. But other than that... you are asking to change the fundamental game mechanics of an entire class because you don't like that one class can solo something. Well... TR's aren't the only ones able to solo stuff (CW's, GWF's, GF's, etc...)... Seems to me you are just picking on stealth when you should be picking on the game design.
butt hurts.... spill your tears here lol as if your class doesnt play dirty tricks like rogues :rolleyes:
I think saboteur should be a debuff tree that strips armor, lowers damage, random debuff like slow and root traps from BnS devs needs some fresh ideas from intelligent people like me.
tr is more balanced then mod 4 for sure
then i saw few permas running on cap doing nothing and people called that high end pvp
even tho i dont think not fighting back ever is pvp its one player avoiding fight at any cost
the rest was dying in one rotation
tr is more balanced then mod 4 for sure
then i saw few permas running on cap doing nothing and people called that high end pvp
even tho i dont think not fighting back ever is pvp
the rest was dying in one rotation
you know what is fun? i sold my perfect vorpal times ago because it was not required to running circles ahahahahah
I must agree on the Disheartening Strike OP since it's a single shot at-will that could take 15k health even if you have low GS.. it's just one stroke (so nothing about wasting stealth meter) and ranged.
It could be fine if it consumes stealth for each tic as flurry does so the damage remain, but I need to consider it a bit more, not just pop stealth and one will, maybe one for each toon of the other team, and watch them die.
In this way I just need one a will and no other dmg encounter on my list, so Perma stealth is even more easy to play.
I must agree on the Disheartening Strike OP since it's a single shot at-will that could take 15k health even if you have low GS.. it's just one stroke (so nothing about wasting stealth meter) and ranged.
It could be fine if it consumes stealth for each tic as flurry does so the damage remain, but I need to consider it a bit more, not just pop stealth and one will, maybe one for each toon of the other team, and watch them die.
In this way I just need one a will and no other dmg encounter on my list, so Perma stealth is even more easy to play.
no one dies to DS if they know what to do and how to build their toons, problem is most people build glass cannon so when hit by a strong DOT they moan OP!nerf them! GWFS and GF doesnt complain at all. Im a TR and my build endures 2 DS
Comments
just make some effect so their playstyle not become OP in pvp
Like make them leave a footprint when they step on the node in pvp
So they cannot cap the point just with standing still and do nothing
this can be doble edge sword..
A skill full tr can use this to confused enemy
BTW - ITC no longer gives damage immunity even when used from stealth, so no more perma-immune builds at least.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
And the HR now has an anti-class in the Scoundrel TR. And I don't count TRs who don't test on Preview and just QQ all the time.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
i agree with most of what you said but i think hunters had roots bypassing all immunites. deft strike still broke it back then, but this was also long before skilled hunters were noticed.
i still remember the huge amount of trash-talk thrown at hunters due to being commonly believed as weak on the forums and the only logs they wanted to prove otherwise was the most cw biased dungeon known as castle never. it was kinda silly.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwefMfYJEw4&index=1&list=UUtHicDjcCMzQGWRpuIxEnFA
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
People will not accept new TR like they didn't accept HR right? I really like to see how players crying for the new TR, and you TR haters didn't make posts before for OP HR to be nerfed. I saw HR beating 5 players in Icewind alone, and you didn't cry for that. Well, that is the end now, finally.
TRs explained in the preview thread that if the preview changes were coming live, mod5 TRs would not only OS anything but kill whole 5-ppl red team in a matter of seconds. And they were not talking about Shadow demise.
we were exactly talking about shadow of demise, we were fine until that
fine?! are you kidding?! daze -2 gc- roll - daze - 2 gc roll and you can do that all day without any chance of being caught... not to mention you dont need any kind of crit cause is always 100% chance
and still there were balanced fights, every class now has a from 0 - 100% hp feat except tr.. we basically have to kill people 2-3 times and the problem of being controlled to death with 1 rotation still stands cause no immunity
ohh i see: is fine with the other broken things around, but that doesnt make it less broken... I was not joking i was killing 17-16 k gs people with my 10k tr as saboteur and was pretty much nothing they could do: too much speed, too many dodges and i attack when i want while they are dazed not to mention leaving shadow in their aoe to refill my ap. Ohh and i;m doing all of that at 300 latency, a 50 latency you wont even see...
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Either way, I am enjoying the TR while I can
SoD is plain broken so will be fixed ASAP.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
and at-wills shouldn't drain stealth...
Attacks should drain stealth
devs should take my advise seriously
Whisperknife was some hot fun until various nerfs and changes reduced it to uselessness. Gearscore really fails to matter when you join a dungeon, they see you're Whisperknife and not an Executioner build, and instantly kick you. Not to mention how useless WK was in PvP. No ITC means getting close to anything with damage output is a death sentence. Being fully ranged with nothing to rely on but Disheartening Strike was painful.
Now, SoD brokenness aside, TRs have actually regained some usefulness. The problem is that the changes are ridiculous. As a WK, in Mod 5, it's nearly orgasmic to go into stealth, DS a CW once, and watch it slowly bleed out. I don't have BiS equips, my best artifact is the new Blue Dragon artifact, and my highest enchant is R7. With a normal Vorpal, I nearly 1-shot CWs with a full DS DoT.
I love it but holy **** that's stupid. God forbid I ever get Artifact weapon, Perfect Vorpal, and 6k+ power.
EDIT: On the topic of Permastealth - It's not going anywhere.
Removing permastealth will be a death sentence for TRs as they are now. They lack control, defense, and HP. Sure, you can get tanky but at the expense of another important stat. TR isn't a brawler, that's what GWF is for. Removing permastealth will also be the final nail in the coffin for WK. Might as well remove the paragon path at that point.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
However I do agree that stealth is a very important part of the TR class tho, but I just don't like see it being abused/exploited so ideally if perma-stealth is still going to be an option make it so enemies will only ignore you so long as they are attacking something else, otherwise they will notice you and attack back.
Eh. It requires a lot of skill to press TAB and then.. Well, my bad, that was actually all that is needed. lol :<
So.... this kinda negates the point of having "stealth" then doesn't it? If they can see you...
I think what you are trying to say is that you want stealth not to be stealth... but be stealth?! Also... by the way, bosses CAN see you... and it can be very difficult in some cases.
I would be ok with stealth being removed if you get hit. But other than that... you are asking to change the fundamental game mechanics of an entire class because you don't like that one class can solo something. Well... TR's aren't the only ones able to solo stuff (CW's, GWF's, GF's, etc...)... Seems to me you are just picking on stealth when you should be picking on the game design.
I think saboteur should be a debuff tree that strips armor, lowers damage, random debuff like slow and root traps from BnS devs needs some fresh ideas from intelligent people like me.
then i saw few permas running on cap doing nothing and people called that high end pvp
even tho i dont think not fighting back ever is pvp its one player avoiding fight at any cost
the rest was dying in one rotation
you know what is fun? i sold my perfect vorpal times ago because it was not required to running circles ahahahahah
i sold my to for refinings lol
was no use in pvp anyway
the less you played the tr in mod 4 richer you are now.
It could be fine if it consumes stealth for each tic as flurry does so the damage remain, but I need to consider it a bit more, not just pop stealth and one will, maybe one for each toon of the other team, and watch them die.
In this way I just need one a will and no other dmg encounter on my list, so Perma stealth is even more easy to play.
no one dies to DS if they know what to do and how to build their toons, problem is most people build glass cannon so when hit by a strong DOT they moan OP!nerf them! GWFS and GF doesnt complain at all. Im a TR and my build endures 2 DS