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Perma-Stealth discussion.
notsheriffsrs
Banned Users Posts: 396 Bounty Hunter
gentlemancrush wrote:Before we talk about the other changes, let’s talk about the big one. Perma-stealth is going to get much harder to play. We don’t really like the gameplay of “invisible attacker dealing steady damage” because the cases for counterplay are limited and require more skill to fight against than we feel is appropriate. Therefore we made two major changes to stealth. Firstly it will drain a little bit when you attack from stealth. To compensate for this you will get 100% critical chance while stealthed. We want stealth in Neverwinter to move towards a quick burst in power that rewards smart play to confuse foes, rather than an effect you can keep up indefinitely.
^ Quote from Chris Meyer
I think this is the complete inverse and perma is now easier than before despite the stealth depletion.
What does the community think?
Post edited by notsheriffsrs on
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there is no more a perma immunity build
What did you even say in your post ?
...
The sad reality...
guess what its called executioner path!!!! try it you might like it!!!
But it's pretty clear that current perma is wrong in its core mechanic. Cause what we have now is a class that true, deals low damage (but can still slowly eat the HPs of almost any class besides HRs), but on the other side can exploit this dumb mechanic and pretty much just slot enough HPs/ deflect to survive 1 rotation, then jump off node and hid. Forever. No matter if you bring the TR down to 10% HP, he will still be able to double roll away in stealth and in a couple of bunnyhopping, thanks to their high movement speed, disappear wherever they want, recover, get back to troll the node. Or may be disappear and go to mid while you stand there to defend the point while nobody is there.
You're a TR and you get caught by the enemy and almost killed? No problem. Just roll away into stealth and bunnyhop out of node where nobody will ever catch you. Then get back to fight whenever you feel like it. And if you're in trouble, no problem. Roll off node into stealth, roll again, and bunnyhop to your hearts content till you've recovered, or just go stab some dying enemy elsewhere then get back to troll the enemy base forever.
I really hope in module 5 TRs get their DPS but in exchange are stripped of their "alternate dimension" where they can escape whenever someone is about to kill them.
However lots of dazing combined with criminal amounts of damage from guaranteed stealth crits, stacking Shadow of Demise that procs from things like GPG/Bile and one shotting with a BB if you're dazed are real issues.
But whatever!
Gz TRs, it's your turn to be OP for a few weeks
Have fun!
You see, the problem is not finding them when you fight on a node. The problem is when you catch them, drop their HPs at 10%, then they double roll away into stealth out of node and....lost somewhere hiding and recovering, waiting for you to move away just to get back on point. All you need is enough HP/ deflect to not get killed in 1 rotation, and you'll never die unless you jump right into a brawl.
It's the "oups, you got me, but i have a free ticket to get out of trouble. just need to jump off node if i lose and go permahide".
Big TR nerf incoming in a few days when the devs realize that people will not accept this new TR.
That's annoying indeed, but GWF is in the same situation :P
There are quite a few "famous" GWFs that made it from rawr spamming lions to perma running gazelles on this mod. "10% HP? The hell, I will make a run for the zerg/potion/DC!". And yes, this is a sign something is wrong with the class, but don't tell anyone I said this!
And the TRs that "backcap" more off node than on the node are a serious liability to their team however, as proven in a series of premades that can be found on the web. In the end the node WILL go red and they WILL have to either step more often on it and get killed, or mess around off node and die later
Of course this will change in 20 hrs and many TRs will suddenly grow a pair starting tomorrow ::))
Perma stealth was no good. I do hope TR will be stronger in mod 5. I do believe it will be changed to no perma builds. Unless devs missed some bug that people will find out in some time. As it was with perma.
You just don't know how many months I'm craving to kill those HRs holding their node while mocking us TRs, 5 mins of attacking them will take em down to 50% and if we screw up their hp is back to 100%
and those CWs who puts IT and SP as if they're making a house in a node and always laugh that we point bleed. Some paths are really OP and no doubt will be nerf, but before that I'll have my fill :mad:
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
Do enjoy lol
By the way, Dinter killed HRs all the mod, even some BiS ones, while other TRs pranced off node. He killed CWs as well, which I kinda doubt he felt they were challenging. Sure sometimes he also died but yeah, quite a big difference compared to the permahide/run TR types.
Why? Because the Devs (Mom) doesn't love you as much
Perma stealth was not bug, infact your HR class mix of best things from each class was bug in itself when it was confirmed to release.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
There's a difference.
A "perma-runner" can still get killed while running away by a CW/SW if at low HP, or get killed if he meets an enemy in between the node and the potion. Also, perma runners are Destroyers, which means quite squishy, limited to takedown-IBS combo with plaguefire for stacks (vorpal does not let you stack fast enough in PvP and deep gash does not grant DP stacks anymore). Which means a SW will have enough zoom to chase the perma-runner after the fight, for example. Last but not the least, please try to play a perma runner in PvP landing takedown directly to deal damage. Takes 10 times more skill than any CW or HR build cause you have to anticipate the enemy and take lag into account too.
So you pretty much get on node, fight, if you lose (most likely since it's a "less than sub-optimal" build compared to "META" builds, you "run like a chicken" to either get killed on the way or waste time looking for pots if you find them.
Perma-runner is a hit-run build with no capability to hold a node. Can pretty much just raid nodes as a support or face GFs effectively (good CWs will dodge takedown, good SWs will out-run the runner).
A Perma can get in-out from the point and keep harrassing it from stealth even when HPs are low, and during that time have, after few seconds, healing depression gone so they can heal fast with full regeneration ticks. So the point will get red-contested-red at worst unless 2+ enemies get on node to hunt the perma, which is a waste.
And while you know where a runner is "running" (to the potion), a perma can just hide anywhere near the node waiting for the enemy to get away or, as i said before, go to mid to help his team get the node, while the enemy is guarding his own uncontested base.
From my point of view, there's quite a bit of difference between a perma-stealth and a perma-runner.
Permastealth is the ultimate enemy base harrasser. Perma runner is a useless hit-run support DPS which can't even sprint truly all the time, and in that window of vulnerability will die as fast as a TR.
BTW, i think GWFs would exchange the "sprinter" build with the old determination gain/ unstoppable any time. But you know, devs fixed threat rush, but since it was not enough to help CWs, they also nerfed both determination gain and unstoppable to the ground, making DPS builds sub-optimal again. Perhaps it's too hard to understand for other classes that during unstoppable you have to kite or heavily debuff the GWF. Now you can attack a destroyer in unstoppable and you'll kill him just as fast as if he was "normal". Thanks to the nonsense generic whining over not just the true issues, but everything (fix+nerf roar, nerf takedown, nerf FLS, nerf Threat rush, nerf determination gain, nerf Unstoppable to the ground, indirectly nerf IBS due to takedown prone turned into a stun).
The crappy and useless perma-runner mechanic is thanks to CWs mainly, and other classes after them, whining over unstoppable.
The purse person can only play them pew pew toons, he feels safe that way and he wont rest till his wizard has shield (check) + unstoppable + stealth. Dont expect rationale from him
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
If someone wants to feel safe, they would play an HR not a CW
Just you wait, wizards will sooner or later have all the viable tools of other classes including the ranger.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Lol I actually like pando and our opinions are many times the same with small divergences, which are to be expected. He's a great poster and should definitely be the GWF advocate. He listens to reason, doesn't hate other classes and posts with regard for overall balance, instead of "buff me plz" type of HAMSTER.
So when I respond to him I post as a normal person.
Which can't be said when I have to respond to other people that are just desperate haters.
I have an HR as well, it was my Mod 3 main. I was quite good at it and many of my best premade results mostly came from me playing an HR.
I had to give up on gearing it in Mod 4 because only AD for one char, and I sentimentally chose my first char, the CW, especially as I could change race. I still made it to page 2 (the highest) by just solo-queue carrying nabs against bad premades, me in mod 3 gear with Royal Guard PvE set, as glyphs on HR make me puke.
TBH I could have geared up the HR and I can still do, but the class is so broken, I have little joy playing it. And when this happens, I pretty much just stop PvPing altogether like 3/4 of mod 4, because CW was broken, glyphs were broken and so on.
The other day, a TR was permastealth with reasonable damage to take out five in domination. While he went hate mode when I came back with a pve skill rotation that caught him off guard (once and only once), the fact he could fight five without being seen whatsoever by any of the five is simply not fair.
Add in that during the combat, even TR's with relatively low DPS chipping a way at you while you cannot even hit them whatsoever, when their daily is up, you die. They laugh, and only they are having fun.
Which pretty much presents the same problem.
Now we have ranged permas doing chip damage over time.
In module 5 we have to expect TRs to briefly appear to land a huge blow and then double roll away into permastealth again hiding. The only difference is now they do it when they use ITC, in module 5 they'll pop out of stealth for a tiny second just to land the blow and then disappear.
When i fought TRs on preview i got to still "find" them somehow while they were hiding in stealth.
TRs by devs words should use stealth as one of many tools.
In reality, TRs are, and will be, assassins perma-hiding in stealth and popping out briefly to inflict the blow, then going back to permastealth.
You land one disheartening strike and wait till your target dies.
Ditto.... when any class completely suppresses (or just enough) another class or classes, it removes the joy of the game.
What ruins this particular game is that one class HR from begun of game kill everyone and there is no anti class for it. That is what ruin game when you fight against class which you don't even have chance to kil. And i don't count HR who can't play.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)