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Knights Valor requests in PVE
tendragone
Member Posts: 32 Arc User
Hey everyone,
Just wondering what everyone else has experienced in game, but I seem to get a lot of Knights Valor request from the most obnoxious people on the planet. I don't mind putting it up almost all the time with the exception of some pulls in eSoT and eLoL. But people go bonkers and always saw "GF bff now" and then resort to general insults when I periodically take it off certain pulls.
I can't count how many times people have sent me harassing tells, and some pretty obnoxious stuff regarding not using it at times. I'm just really wondering if they know the mechanics of it, I'm thinking not.
I guess the moral of the story is I shouldn't pug, it seems like people lose all civility when they enter a dungeon with 4 other randoms.
Cheers
Just wondering what everyone else has experienced in game, but I seem to get a lot of Knights Valor request from the most obnoxious people on the planet. I don't mind putting it up almost all the time with the exception of some pulls in eSoT and eLoL. But people go bonkers and always saw "GF bff now" and then resort to general insults when I periodically take it off certain pulls.
I can't count how many times people have sent me harassing tells, and some pretty obnoxious stuff regarding not using it at times. I'm just really wondering if they know the mechanics of it, I'm thinking not.
I guess the moral of the story is I shouldn't pug, it seems like people lose all civility when they enter a dungeon with 4 other randoms.
Cheers
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
I tend to have mostly good experiences when I pug, but at the same time, nothing beats working with a team that you are familiar with.
This is due to ItF increasing damage by % of your DR and KV now increasing your DR.
Those two powers are very synergistic at present and provide a party wide series of buffs that are significant enough that it's difficult to see a reason why a GF would not use them.
Unfortunately, for a GF that is not built or experienced at using KV, especially when working with an inexperienced, unskilled, ignorant or uncaring party, KV may often be tantamount to a death sentence.
Also, if you're sick of running in PUGs, perhaps try running content the Legit way!
What's quite galling to me, however, is the GF who is not capable of self-healing through the damage in basic fights like Valindra. I did a run with my CW before I got the EC boon, and so pleaded this 16k protector specced GF I was with to use KV, and he was completely unable to tolerate the damage and went down so fast. I can't even understand how this is possible. The rest of the team wasn't completely careless and just standing in the red; just a bit squishy.
I could see if things were going horribly and it was offered as a suggestion but if I haven't even clicked my mouse yet and I'm getting told how to play without any evidence that I need that telling then I'm probably going to drop and find a more civil group to run with.
It's not like I stumbled onto my set of purified BI by accident but whatever...
made me to not go near pug queues for awhile lol.
to make things worse, it came from one of those clerics that dont use blue astral shield...
atm, legit channel and guild runs seem to be the smarter choice.
well, most of the times.
There lies the problem with so many people in NW and the game itself, it lets people get away too often with not caring about their role in a group, team skills or even using a brain...tho the game is getting better at requiring this I think
Like you said however KV is NOT needed to play GF well in a group, if people simply let the tank/GF do their job in a party to get the initial aggro then keep it on them (admittedly not all GF players are good at this), then they wouldn't have to worry about the amount of damage they might take and needing KV to survive. My advice for using Knight's Valour in parties, and whether it is needed:
- It should NOT be a skill you have to use to save people from themselves i.e. them running into enemies ahead of you with the only thought on their mind being how much dmg they can do. If I was using KV and people did this I tend to turn it off just before they run in and watch them die in the hope they learn their lesson.
- I tend not to use it in parties that have mostly ranged members since KV works best when people are taking damage for the threat redirection, and ranged players shouldn't be in melee range enough to be in danger of getting hit. Sadly a lot of players don't care about this and the game does let you away with it sadly, so I say refer to my first point :P
- KV is more useful in majority melee groups so I will tend to use it then to help protect them from damage and attacks that they are too close to avoid as well as saving them from having to dodge as much.
- Other than that I consider it a situational skill (So not one that I feel I have to always use) where it is very good to use on certain boss fights. For example when fighting Valindra in VT and MC due to her constant attacks that hit the entire party. Also certain fights in LoL, namely the last one due to the amount of environmental hazards. I could also see it being helpful versus the Twin Scorpions although I think most of the damage is aimed towards the tank so if you are good enough to tank both of them like I try to and understand that tanking is also about positioning of enemies then the party shouldn't need it.
1) with the mark buffs, ET buff, and glyphs I can hold aggro anyway. Why would I waste an encounter to protect you from basically splash damage. Ignoring that fact that everything is attacking ME anyway and will be long dead before I lose aggro?
2) For the previous three mods everyone ran all of these dungeons without KV. Heck usually without a GF. Why the sudden urge to have me eat the DPS from every GWF standin in red to build determination and every high LS DPS class?
3) Boss tanking. I experimented heavilly (I suppose everyone has experimented heavilly the last few months) with fighting dragons. My experience has been that at 8-12 players a KV GF can sometimes steal aggro from me (likely using enhance mark which I usually do not bother with). At 15-20 the KV will hold aggro. Meaning in a 5 man dungeon KV has less aggro on a boss than simply holding a mark, DPSing on Menace, and layin in with AS when they drop red.
4) Which means in most (I use KV but only when necissary) cases KV will 1. disperse damage the party could have taken. 2. which every previos party composition DID take. 3. Without holding more aggro than a more traditional rotation can already handle. (Hail Eris but all those 3-5-3 essays do indeed pay off!).
Conclusions: I suppose I should place some blame. Since the origonal nerf of SB set GFs have been an under-represented class. The KV-SOS-Turtle build provides an easy in to make a GF 'work' in PVE mechanics. And people do not like to think things through. But the same buffs apply to an active tank that will be a living singularity for the rest of the party to attack. And it works better, and it clears DDs faster. Butpeoplelike easy and predictable, especially when they are grinding. soit goes...
I have two setups tho for general parties, one for the mostly melee groups which includes KV and Guarded Assault/SoS or one for ranged groups with Enforced Threat and Enhanced Mark, which means a lot of the time I wont use KV unless I feel it will help in a certain fight. Enhanced Mark is always useful imo tho cos it works well with Enforced Threat and due to some classes/chars doing excessive amount of damage it is sometimes needed to help hold threat.
There lies the problem though eh, you are assuming people have the team skills to think about letting the GF run in first to get and hold the threat/aggro on them. This is likely where the KV requests come from cos people just want to use the GF as buff bot to protect them from their own choice of feeling the need to charge in first and getting hit. Now some GF players are prolly use to this and will try and charge as fast as possible into enemies ahead of these kind of people, or just follow afterwards and then taunt...however why should we be forced to act this way? If people could think more of others in the group and their role then perhaps they would realise that buffs like KV are not *always needed*.
If I see people charging into enemies before me I just assume they want to tank and will instead act as a dps class so won't use any tanking skills...if people die because of this then I would say blame the "tank" who ran in first.
This is sort of a 2-factor problem. One factor being that there were so few active GFs for so long that many players have no experience working with one. The other factor is a lot of those GFs that are active are either new alts or alts that had been campfire sitting for the last year and re-specced to the PVP glyph/ reflect twink. Not hating here, My first and favorite toon is my HR and something very similar went on when that class came out. My #2 and dear dear toon is my little GF however and I was actually playing her the last two mods so I got used to using lunges to keep ahead of my rush-happy colleagues. I just gett aggrivated when the mobs are attacking me and someone else complains that I am not mitigating the negligable damage they might take. Did you stop using lifesteal all of a sudden? Did you re-spec under the expectation that there will always be a GF in the party? Why????
Oh I don't have any issues either. It's actually kinda fun to see all the numbers popping up, the screen shaking and whatnot.
I just don't appreciate being told to play my toon a certain way by people that I've never met and that have never seen me play.
No one has ever ASKED me to switch on KV, no when they mention it they DEMAND it and it's usually before anything has even happened in the run and that's the part that upsets me.
Assume the GF knows how to play the GF until proven otherwise please.
I don't make it my business to comment on others playstyle (I mean it's not like I'm privy to their feats anyway so how could I know that they're not doing their best?) unless it's a repel/ice storm troll or archer hr that pulls the mobs across the map but again that's after the evidence is there, not before.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
This is also part of the issue. I run KV under circumstances that makes it the most efficient. I use ITF in most delves because it is often the right answer. which means if there is no healer my spec can adapt and not be determined by composition. I can tank all of the content in this game with or without KV and with or without a healer to keep me alive. Hades half the timeI am swapping encounters while running to the next mob. (hold down W hit P drag and drop). It is just slightly infuriating to, after going to all that trouble, Have someone complain that you did not KV where it was not needed to expedite the process. Again your rotation will work. It is simply not the right answer to most PVE situations.
2) You are right, in most fights when the tank/GF knows what he is doing like you and is able to aggro first and keep aggro on them then requests for Knight's Valour are laughable and people should trust us GF players that we know when it is and isnt needed. It just makes me a little sad that so many ppl playin GF at the moment feel they have to or don't know any other way to play in groups without KV and/or ITF...but I guess it does work and there is more than one way to play a GF. I just hope these people arent playing GF this way due to things like the subject of this post i.e. they r under the impression its the only way to play a GF in a group.
3) If they did something about things like life steal then perhaps people wouldn't be able to get away with rushing into enemies or standing in red without a care, or expect the GF to save them with KV.
2) Yeah.
3) Sure. or if a party set out to have minimal LS and focussed on otherr stats coluntarilly. Which honestly I think is more viable especially with the temptlock's consistant healing effect.
Just funny, I had a exp team running VT except a random GWF. For w.e. reason he kept running ahead of me into the adds. I thought he wanted to tank it by himself, but he kept dieing in mere seconds. Inspec'd him and he was at some 24khp with 1k defense and almost no deflect. But for the life of him, no matter how many times he did this and died, he kept repeating it over and over again until we said something. Just kept giving me a chuckle inside x'D
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
Why? It's broken OP bullsh**
Only a major vajeje needs that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
No, the weak people gather in Dragon's PVP Leaderboard, true men go Drider and pretend to be Ukrainian!
Regarding KV: I couldn't verify that KV actually adds +DR% for ITF bonus calculation, but in normal DD it's probably useless to try to educate people. Hence, I would always slot KV no matter what.
If you don't like the current meta in normal /lfg you can always go to the legit channel or play with people you know.
ITF is 25% of your DR as increased damage to the group, rank 2 adds 25% and rank 3 adds another 25% for a total 75% of your DR going as increased damage. For me, at 50% DR, my group gets 37.5% increased damage. At the beginning of Mod 4, KV was adding 20% base DR, for an extra 15% increased damage, which was confirmed by me and several others, but it seems recently this may have changed so I'll try to confirm when I get the chance, I'm traveling now and ACT is on my home computer, but installing on my laptop shouldn't take too much time.
KV's 20% DR buff never showed in the stats, but the damage boost did in ACT, however, it was reported recently that it wasn't showing in ACT.
That said, the 5% DR from the Draconic set also added to the base DR for increased damage, and with the extra 5% ITF Tactician feat my ITF
damage boost got over 61%.
The KC set buff is even better than the Draconic, but I'm encountering a mental block going for reduced personal stats and no overload slots.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
There's more to the story KV vs. ET on the buffing front: With damage reflecting Boons and Companions you can spread GPF stacks around, especially a purple Blacksmith procs like crazy off KV.
It's a strange mechanic because these Boons and Companions do not add Weapon Enchants to targets that are striking you, but they do through KV intercepted damage (I've tested this thoroughly). So unless you can really make use of the ET target cap, KV is better.
And has somebody else tested the KV/ITF synergy lately? I think it's not working (any longer).
I'll test the Synergy by next Friday, have work related stuff to do for now.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I get adequate damage from ET because I have 6k+ power but i don't delude myself into thinking I do anything more than negligible damage in the overall group picture because I feel buffing the DPS classes will speed up things a lot more than my baby taps will.
In that regard I have a *buffbot* mentality when playing GF that I know a lot of GF's don't share, but I know there are some that also do share it.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
KV and ITF and insanely powerful and a lot of GFs don't know it..........at the beginning of mod 4 I was in a TOS group that failed at the last boss 3 times in a row. I was on my DC and for the 4th run I asked the GF to try KV and ITF. Not only did we win the 4th run but it was actually easy. Same group, 2 spells. Boosted everyone's damage and kept us all alive at the same time.
Since then I've been operating under the assumption that the GF is the biggest group difference maker in Mod 4. I get invited to groups soon as I log on, and when I'm playing other classes, my guild and everyone else asks me to get on my GF.
So see? I overestimate:)
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC