You actually wanted to beat Choco Shoppe with their best CWs and GWf all stacked with reds etc. and playing since open beta...
... with a PUG?
Won't work.
Pretty much this. I think the same would hold for some of the other experienced PvP guilds; even with the gear and troll comp, if your rotations are bad and you can't hold the backcap, you're going to have a bad time. Doesn't mean that GWFs aren't really powerful, though. Just means you can't expect to win every match based solely on comp.
I'd like to see the other matches where you guys stomped pugs 1000-0.
@osterdrache, whenever I think of "The Barracks", tank and off tank the two classes that come to mind are:
1. GF
2. GWF
Let's do a little comparison.
1. Knight Valor Support Role: Knight's Valor vs GWF Meat Shield ahead of the pack - which one is better?
2. Bull Charge vs Takedown - Prone vs stun plus bull charge has range
3. KV vs IBS - more damage on KV plus easier to execute
4. Shield vs Sprint
It seems because of the above, the following is true:
1. GF is a better support
2. GF has better CC that can be executed from a range
3. GF has more burst damage
4. GF is more tanky and has higher immunity.
Here is a link of what GF can provide, as a support and a dps melee burst along with it's tanky defense.
I understand a number of these PvP are against pugs but let's not be in denial on the burst damage that GF can provide added to the CC and other support benefits as a melee class.
GF has better and smoother rotation and beats GWF in every area..
^^^^
The differences between the GWF and the Gfs ,as you provided is that every encounter of the GF has to use DEMAND SKILL while GWF button mashing.
Let me clarify:
1.KV is a high risk option for the GF.Not only he loses one of his 3 encounters,but he takes damage from all his team8s.If his team8s in ELOL screw around during twin scorpions or against garakas in esot GF is dead.He takes a lot of practice to hold aggro from bosses ,avoid red,manage your stamina and watch your stupid team8s if they get close to you to keep your dinstance.
Also if a GF will support (99% of his time in parties or kicked) he will have slotted Iron Warrior ,KV and ITF.
Now a relevation to you:NONE OF THESE POWERS DOES DAMAGE.The only damage he can do is by his att wills.
While GWF can be meatshield and also dps significantly.
1.So for me your point 1 is even.GF is better support but this comes in the trade off that it is a pure tank/utility class.
GWF can support less but in thesame time can dps 3x or 4x as the GF can do.
2.Take dawn does 2x-3x the damage of Bull charge.LMAO.Hey.You want bull charge?No prob man If you are honest make a proposition in the barracks the GWF to take the bull charge and the GF the takedawn.Any day.
3.KV ...You meant KC... .Well another revelation to you.KC does 0 (zero) damage.You just lock the opponent in one vs one.At that state you and him do 100% more damage to each other.I ll take IBS hands dawn.You want KC?Take it.
If a GF uses KC in an one vs one ,and the enemy is beware of this and not stunned ,GF with lower crit chance from all classes takes a risk and danger higher than his opponent.Also he loses a sloted normal encounter.A GF with a KC slotted in dps /burst is lower than any GWF rotation.Take your facts strai8.
4.More tanky?Higher CC?Bravery gives you 8% more deflect.Gf struggles to reach 26-29% deflect.While you have 33-40% deflect just for fun.All your sts give you higher deflect than the Gf sets.LMAO
Higher immunity????........... :mad: The GF has higher immunity?......Oh my god.....You are saying the Gf has higher immunity from a GWF?.........
Higher immunity....
The ony immunity Gf has is an 8 sec shift=Block.In that stance he is slow as hell.Add to this that block offers CC immunity just from the FRONT.If a CW at 80 range see a GF blocking he can press one button and GF is frozen or in mid air.
GFs in normal matches are easy picks for an experienced CW as long as the Gf has not sawn him.
While you as GWF have 2 immunities.That cover all corners and angles.Sprint and unstoppable.Enough said.
As for burst damage:
Better burst damage?Burst damage=criticals.Are you even serious?Any GWF build has 2x the critical chance of any GF.
The highest critical GF i have seen is a 29% Gf and that had only 37k hp and severelly lacking in other offensive areas.
We do not have your Bravery feat or Master at Arms sent feat to take deflect and critical for free.
Concerning the video:
I saw an 20k gs GF that used KC on bad /mediocre players.Excpet his second kill.Ants combo there was good.
But in all others the enemy while he saw the one sec KC animation stayed in place.More than that 50% of the kills in the video are against CWs that stand still and try to facetank the GF.All that would have taken them is to dodge.
Most of the others kills are against GFs that are out of block.In most of the kills i recognized the shape of +5 shield and in one kill Grim /Profound shield.Do you know what that means?
+5 shield=8-10k gs
Grim /Profound=13-16k gs.
And even then this is a video.The enemy Gf might run out of block he was facing ant's team8s.In most cases it is one vs 2 or 2 vs 2.
I can make a video of any GWF with 30-35k IBS on 10k Cws .So?
I think the same would hold for some of the other experienced PvP guilds; even with the gear and troll comp, if your rotations are bad and you can't hold the backcap, you're going to have a bad time. Doesn't mean that GWFs aren't really powerful, though. Just means you can't expect to win every match based solely on comp.
I'd like to see the other matches where you guys stomped pugs 1000-0.
I'd like to see those pictures as well.
Face it, OP skewed his own reporting by only showing their loses to one of the best PVP guilds in the game. You can't expect 5 no-name GWFs to compete with Chocolate Shoppe.
I'm sure you guys pug-stomped as well but for some reason, OP isn't showing the matches where their party trolled the other pug team.
@osterdrache, whenever I think of "The Barracks", tank and off tank the two classes that come to mind are:
1. GF
2. GWF
Let's do a little comparison.
1. Knight Valor Support Role: Knight's Valor vs GWF Meat Shield ahead of the pack - which one is better?
2. Bull Charge vs Takedown - Prone vs stun plus bull charge has range
3. KV vs IBS - more damage on KV plus easier to execute
4. Shield vs Sprint
It seems because of the above, the following is true:
1. GF is a better support
2. GF has better CC that can be executed from a range
3. GF has more burst damage
4. GF is more tanky and has higher immunity.
Here is a link of what GF can provide, as a support and a dps melee burst along with it's tanky defense.
I understand a number of these PvP are against pugs but let's not be in denial on the burst damage that GF can provide added to the CC and other support benefits as a melee class.
GF has better and smoother rotation and beats GWF in every area. Again, what's the purpose of GWF when GF is overwhelmingly dominant in all areas as a melee solo OR a melee support? What's the purpose of GWF when TR/HR is dominant is strikingly better in solo flag capture ? What is the purpose of GWF when the DPS is coming from CW & SW?
* GWF has no role in harassing flags
* GWF is a poorer support
* GWF has the worst dps
* GWF are most vulnerable
* GWF damage are the hardest to land
* GWF are the BEST mobile unit that grabs pot for survival, only this is good?
I am sure that's sufficient reason why GWF class mechanics need to be taken to consideration.
Lotsa BS written here^ using BS video vs GS scrubs to prove a point.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The differences between the GWF and the Gfs ,as you provided is that every encounter of the GF has to use DEMAND SKILL while GWF button mashing.
Let me clarify:
1.KV is a high risk option for the GF.Not only he loses one of his 3 encounters,but he takes damage from all his team8s.If his team8s in ELOL screw around during twin scorpions or against garakas in esot GF is dead.He takes a lot of practice to hold aggro from bosses ,avoid red,manage your stamina and watch your stupid team8s if they get close to you to keep your dinstance.
Also if a GF will support (99% of his time in parties or kicked) he will have slotted Iron Warrior ,KV and ITF.
Now a relevation to you:NONE OF THESE POWERS DOES DAMAGE.The only damage he can do is by his att wills.
While GWF can be meatshield and also dps significantly.
1.So for me your point 1 is even.GF is better support but this comes in the trade off that it is a pure tank/utility class.
GWF can support less but in thesame time can dps 3x or 4x as the GF can do.
2.Take dawn does 2x-3x the damage of Bull charge.LMAO.Hey.You want bull charge?No prob man If you are honest make a proposition in the barracks the GWF to take the bull charge and the GF the takedawn.Any day.
3.KV ...You meant KC... .Well another revelation to you.KC does 0 (zero) damage.You just lock the opponent in one vs one.At that state you and him do 100% more damage to each other.I ll take IBS hands dawn.You want KC?Take it.
If a GF uses KC in an one vs one ,and the enemy is beware of this and not stunned ,GF with lower crit chance from all classes takes a risk and danger higher than his opponent.Also he loses a sloted normal encounter.A GF with a KC slotted in dps /burst is lower than any GWF rotation.Take your facts strai8.
4.More tanky?Higher CC?Bravery gives you 8% more deflect.Gf struggles to reach 26-29% deflect.While you have 33-40% deflect just for fun.All your sts give you higher deflect than the Gf sets.LMAO
Higher immunity????........... :mad: The GF has higher immunity?......Oh my god.....You are saying the Gf has higher immunity from a GWF?.........
Higher immunity....
The ony immunity Gf has is an 8 sec shift=Block.In that stance he is slow as hell.Add to this that block offers CC immunity just from the FRONT.If a CW at 80 range see a GF blocking he can press one button and GF is frozen or in mid air.
GFs in normal matches are easy picks for an experienced CW as long as the Gf has not sawn him.
While you as GWF have 2 immunities.That cover all corners and angles.Sprint and unstoppable.Enough said.
As for burst damage:
Better burst damage?Burst damage=criticals.Are you even serious?Any GWF build has 2x the critical chance of any GF.
The highest critical GF i have seen is a 29% Gf and that had only 37k hp and severelly lacking in other offensive areas.
We do not have your Bravery feat or Master at Arms sent feat to take deflect and critical for free.
Concerning the video:
I saw an 20k gs GF that used KC on bad /mediocre players.Excpet his second kill.Ants combo there was good.
But in all others the enemy while he saw the one sec KC animation stayed in place.More than that 50% of the kills in the video are against CWs that stand still and try to facetank the GF.All that would have taken them is to dodge.
Most of the others kills are against GFs that are out of block.In most of the kills i recognized the shape of +5 shield and in one kill Grim /Profound shield.Do you know what that means?
+5 shield=8-10k gs
Grim /Profound=13-16k gs.
And even then this is a video.The enemy Gf might run out of block he was facing ant's team8s.In most cases it is one vs 2 or 2 vs 2.
I can make a video of any GWF with 30-35k IBS on 10k Cws .So?
Thanks man for taking the time to write what I think down, I couldnt bring myself to do it. Nezrael is yet another hopeless player who desperately wants to be OP at all costs.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
I meant Anvil of Doom not KC.
Takedown vs Bull Charge : PvP wise Bull Charge is a prone. Takedown is a stun. You say Takedown (stun) is better than prone? You have got to be joking! Additionally Bull Charge covers a range, something that GWF has to do with Sprint > Takedown or TR > Takedown. The reaction times are a lot faster and safer. Also do you know the difference between a stun and prone?
Anvil of Doom vs IBS You execute this only after a target is prone or stunned. The damage scales much better.
Sprint vs Shield I think even people who don't play neverwinter would know which one is stronger.
Overall defense Don't tell me you think GF is more tanky and survive more than GWF.
It's a known fact, on 1v1 GF vs GWF 18k+ GS, a GF is miles ahead. Or are you claiming they stand on equal grounds ? In what world is this true? Please don't distort the FACTS.
Takedown vs Bull Charge : PvP wise Bull Charge is a prone. Takedown is a stun. You say Takedown (stun) is better than prone? You have got to be joking! Additionally Bull Charge covers a range, something that GWF has to do with Sprint > Takedown or TR > Takedown. The reaction times are a lot faster and safer. Also do you know the difference between a stun and prone?
Anvil of Doom vs IBS You execute this only after a target is prone or stunned. The damage scales much better.
Sprint vs Shield I think even people who don't play neverwinter would know which one is stronger.
Overall defense Don't tell me you think GF is more tanky and survive more than GWF.
It's a known fact, on 1v1 GF vs GWF 18k+ GS, a GF is miles ahead. Or are you claiming they stand on equal grounds ? In what world is this true? Please don't distort the FACTS.
A GWF that knows how to sprint, and use corners to prevent the GF from charging him too often and closing GAPs, can beat the hell out of a GF at equal gear. I believe what's missing from your analysis sir, is SKILL.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
A GWF that knows how to sprint, and use corners to prevent the GF from charging him too often and closing GAPs, can beat the hell out of a GF at equal gear. I believe what's missing from your analysis sir, is SKILL.
1. I am a GWF in page ranking between pages 35-60 on average, so I think I understand my class mechanics.
2. You can use sprinting behind GF use TD and execute some damage as much as you want but at the end GF will overwhelmingly dominate a GWF on same GS as long as it's 18k+. The difference of 1v1 PvP GWF and GF is significant. Again, this is a known FACT. A lot of strong players have tested this over and over again, and resulted in the same outcome, some top level GWF have also switched to GF before mod 4 release.
Additionally I am not saying GF should be nerfed. I think GF is fine the way it is, it's GWF that needs a boost! I would give up the immune free sprint for better unstoppable and better damage/defense/cc any given day.
GWF have 2 immunities.That cover all corners and angles.Sprint and unstoppable.
Sprint: It's not that when there is more than one boss and one add the ground is 100% red and there is nowhere to sprint to. It's that running away from the danger has never ever been what a Melee fighter does. It's an out of the blue, absurd invention by one dev in one game. Unfortunately this one.
Unstoppable: It's not only that cc is not what kills you, it's how are you supposed to ever build it? Even the damage by trash mobs kills you, a full Unstoppable bar is useless when dead at campfire.
ToD = ..........
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Well, that Steamroller GWF did pretty well in the match. Outperformed the 4 CWs in kills and caps.
Co-Founder of -Valor-
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
Here, since I was in the PvP let me explain what happened:
1. Red Glyph + CW = The damage was so 50% to 70% of our health nearly evaporated by time we sprinted to flag at start.
* Notice we are all on purified black ice x 4, that's the most tank armor available.
2. After that our team got broken running in all directions and they out each GWF one at a time almost evaporated each time we approached. (we tried hitting different flag points by breaking them)
3. Whatever was left was under CC, in this state a GWF can land a finisher and take a kill.
4. Personally, unlike pugs these CW were better skilled and dodged my CC attacks (takedown, I also tried FLS) and I am sure my team felt the same.
5. By the time we could successfully land say, 1 IBS the next minute we were dead.
The GWF got a free CC thanks to the CW and using a broken feat. Rest of what is out-perform ? Looking at the score line and capturing flag when everyone is dead? SW is also quite formidable. So CW and SW have clear strong roles as dps. In reality, a 5th CW would have worked even better for that team - may be we were lucky to get that 2 points.
To me this game play is a major concern. Why? Because majority of GWF play IV > Destroyer for PvP. It's the most popular GWF class, most forum posts in barracks focus on this tree.
About mod 5
Now mod 5 there is changes being made to CW, HR and SW. So it's worth waiting and seeing.
TR - lost perma stealth, but in return gained more damage and I think it will still out-do GWF for same GS. Not sure yet.
GF will still beat GWF in the same margin and it's significant.
I am also doubtful if HR changes will bring an equal balance. But again, it's worth wait and see how the new change effects each class.
DC has some interesting changes, and it's too early to say anything yet.
However the new gears that are going to roll out, seem to be big and GWF will scale with the least benefit. I really think the GWF needs at least "1" prone to be viable, so we can land our major encounters. Right now the miss % ratio is too high and does not feel smooth vs a lot of classes. I honestly feel, the changes in mod5 will be insufficient for our class and the developers need to re-evaluate our class mechanics.
A lot of players are not even aware of the condition of gwf class. "How can you be 19k+ gs and deliver less than 2 millions damage when I deliver more than ten millions with my 14k gs?" was a question from a CW yesterday. They think in good faith that the difference between a CW and a GWF is just a stylish one, Melee instead of Ranged, and they think that the overall performance is similar.
In WoW, among DPS classes the difference between the one with highest DPS and the one with lowest DPS is less than 10%. Here it is 400%.
Converning PvE (I think alot of class changes are terrible as they effect PvP mostly and do not consider PvE, they really need to start separating the two and making changes for each separately.)
Ahaha yah, I have been out DPS'd by 14k CWs in Skirmish (I'm 18k+ Destroyer). I had around 1.5m and he had 3.4m. I have 3 slotted Epic Artifacts and he only had 1 Rare quality
The significant loss of damage is the result of multiple nerfs and the fact that CWs can effectively spam AoE while never taking damage at a range... whereas if a GWF uses an AoE setup either you don't have enough threat to even land the hits or you will be QUICKLY overrun since you are trying to face tank hoards of mobs.
The best we can hope for is moderate single-target DPS and assist with kiting. I just ran eLoL several times and both CWs in my group had 1-5m higher damage despite being similar GS.
It remains a fact that putting the same amount of time, effort, money into GS and build on a GWF will net you less DPS and less success than if you did the same on a HR, TR, CW, or SW. Albeit, not in PvE vs. a TR. I understand the buffs TR gets in PvE, it's much-needed to make them useful outside of Domination.
After Mod 5, GWF will literally be bottom of the totem pole in DPS classes. Only now we can choose if we want to be Instigator, Destroyer, or Sentinel and still remain horribly viable.
HUZZAH! -_-
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
@masterofmirage Right now of all the class GWF has the worst burst, except while in unstoppable (which lasts an extremely short period). I think burst damage is a critical feature and absolute necessity in PvP. GWF is also the most vulnerable class, as DR% will be nullified to almost nothing, all you have is high stacked HP to survive. Other classes have dodge, hp leech, shield for GF and that's why some even joke - "I wanted be more tanky, I switched to CW". The design of a beserker can never be, jack of all trades, by class mechanics design. HR/SW/TR have better mechanic for this kind of role. The problem is they gave "jack of all trades" stats in a class mechanic that works differently. DPS works with range, Tank works with melee - when you try to stuff dps into an off tank the class gets too strong, if you take away the defense the class dies too fast, if you give the tank and take away the dps it's worse than a pure tank. The mistake they made was forcing a major part of GF into GWF and the class mechanic needs major corrections, sloppy & lazy. The current GWF is nothing but a second-hand support class for range classes, take the beating and hopelessly rely on the range toons in your class. If they CC enough, GWF will do well use their given damage to land some ibs and finish them off - if they fail you are toast or play hit & run for pots.
Lastly PvE and PvP build are completely different builds with a difference of 20k HP, and AoW set. You need to build a second character. However I am not a fan of a PvE GWF, I play PvE with GF (which to me serves a better role as Melee class than a PvE oriented GWF any given day). There is no real purpose of a PvE GWF as there no need for an off tank. Tank is GF, Heal is DC, dps is CW/SW/HR. TR and GWF in PvE ? Ugh, I don't know man.
The reason I play GWF is I always play a beserker role for PvP in any MMORPG. This is what I enjoy, and in a game the entire idea is to have fun (not necessarily be the OP class). However at this point, I feel the GWF needs more steam to be "viable".
Yeah, Anvil of Doom currently hits too hard in PvP and should be scaled down.
Nop its not try to test it on sentinel .
AoD x2 dmg affected by dr & tenacity.
IBS 30 % more dmg and cannot be mignated its an executioner.
Another good example is CW with Shild on tab. AoD cant finish her but IBS exe feated can do the dirty work.
So Destroyer can finish sentinel in unstoppable with low hp (IBS feated executioner style) in the mean time AoD can only finish sentinel if he have realy realy low hp or her unstoppable is over .
Yeah, Anvil of Doom currently hits too hard in PvP and should be scaled down.
GF has been nerfed enough already, first my old build gets nerfed a few weeks ago now people want to nerf my new build I replace it with. It takes 3 encounters just to be able to make this work good, and sacrifice survivability to do this.
Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
The truth is most people playing premade have RI% at close to 40%, so with proper ArP (which is essential), AoDx2 is quite strong, unless you can prove me otherwise with some data on a single blow. It's also much safer to execute a proper blow with bull charge. So, AoDx2 > IBS - at least this is the way I feel when I am playing on my newer GF (still learning). Executing encounters on opponents with GF is much cleaner than GWF.
If a CW is on shield, it's bad idea to execute IBS anyway without "some stun", which doesn't quite fit in because to execute IBS and your opponent dodging it is almost a death note. Again for the same reasons you do not want to execute an IBS on GWF without a stun, as it can be dodged easily. On top of that stun gets affected by control resist and tenacity, a 3s stun honestly feels like 1.3 to 1.5 secs at most.
My point is, GWF needs "one" prone to safely execute an IBS, I am not criticizing GF at all, no way they should be nerfed, don't misread -I think they are good as they are, I think GWF rotation on landing encounters should be similar to that of GF.
Main problem i see in that game are 4 CW. With shield on and vorpal CW have better dps and still enough survivability. Ranged DPS CW/SW is king in pvp now, and for sure gwf is the most useless class to counter a battery of mod4 cws. You have dr, but DPS difference is high. My guess is, mixing some warlocks in you wouldnot even touch the node. Gwf is quite strong against cc but ranged DPS is currently overkill. Classes who can avoid it like GF/TR/HR can survive more than a semi-tank class like gwf. Expecially when all the mobiity is ueless when said ranged DPS is easy to land.
The gwf is a veteran tanky geared gwf and on top of that all he got to do was protect the DPS battery and finish the job...
My guess btw is, currently ranged DPS > gwf
Make a gwf vs GF or TR team and might work better if gwfs are good.
That match also was flawed by glyphs cause everyone knows red glyphs are >>>>> on CW/SW/TR/HR and much less effective on fighters.
Remake it with no cheap nab red glyphs and might work better. Only skill-less nabs/kids use reds. And this is a fact.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Comments
Pretty much this. I think the same would hold for some of the other experienced PvP guilds; even with the gear and troll comp, if your rotations are bad and you can't hold the backcap, you're going to have a bad time. Doesn't mean that GWFs aren't really powerful, though. Just means you can't expect to win every match based solely on comp.
I'd like to see the other matches where you guys stomped pugs 1000-0.
^^^^
The differences between the GWF and the Gfs ,as you provided is that every encounter of the GF has to use DEMAND SKILL while GWF button mashing.
Let me clarify:
1.KV is a high risk option for the GF.Not only he loses one of his 3 encounters,but he takes damage from all his team8s.If his team8s in ELOL screw around during twin scorpions or against garakas in esot GF is dead.He takes a lot of practice to hold aggro from bosses ,avoid red,manage your stamina and watch your stupid team8s if they get close to you to keep your dinstance.
Also if a GF will support (99% of his time in parties or kicked) he will have slotted Iron Warrior ,KV and ITF.
Now a relevation to you:NONE OF THESE POWERS DOES DAMAGE.The only damage he can do is by his att wills.
While GWF can be meatshield and also dps significantly.
1.So for me your point 1 is even.GF is better support but this comes in the trade off that it is a pure tank/utility class.
GWF can support less but in thesame time can dps 3x or 4x as the GF can do.
2.Take dawn does 2x-3x the damage of Bull charge.LMAO.Hey.You want bull charge?No prob man
3.KV ...You meant KC... .Well another revelation to you.KC does 0 (zero) damage.You just lock the opponent in one vs one.At that state you and him do 100% more damage to each other.I ll take IBS hands dawn.You want KC?Take it.
If a GF uses KC in an one vs one ,and the enemy is beware of this and not stunned ,GF with lower crit chance from all classes takes a risk and danger higher than his opponent.Also he loses a sloted normal encounter.A GF with a KC slotted in dps /burst is lower than any GWF rotation.Take your facts strai8.
4.More tanky?Higher CC?Bravery gives you 8% more deflect.Gf struggles to reach 26-29% deflect.While you have 33-40% deflect just for fun.All your sts give you higher deflect than the Gf sets.LMAO
Higher immunity????........... :mad:
Higher immunity....
The ony immunity Gf has is an 8 sec shift=Block.In that stance he is slow as hell.Add to this that block offers CC immunity just from the FRONT.If a CW at 80 range see a GF blocking he can press one button and GF is frozen or in mid air.
GFs in normal matches are easy picks for an experienced CW as long as the Gf has not sawn him.
While you as GWF have 2 immunities.That cover all corners and angles.Sprint and unstoppable.Enough said.
As for burst damage:
Better burst damage?Burst damage=criticals.Are you even serious?Any GWF build has 2x the critical chance of any GF.
The highest critical GF i have seen is a 29% Gf and that had only 37k hp and severelly lacking in other offensive areas.
We do not have your Bravery feat or Master at Arms sent feat to take deflect and critical for free.
Concerning the video:
I saw an 20k gs GF that used KC on bad /mediocre players.Excpet his second kill.Ants combo there was good.
But in all others the enemy while he saw the one sec KC animation stayed in place.More than that 50% of the kills in the video are against CWs that stand still and try to facetank the GF.All that would have taken them is to dodge.
Most of the others kills are against GFs that are out of block.In most of the kills i recognized the shape of +5 shield and in one kill Grim /Profound shield.Do you know what that means?
+5 shield=8-10k gs
Grim /Profound=13-16k gs.
And even then this is a video.The enemy Gf might run out of block he was facing ant's team8s.In most cases it is one vs 2 or 2 vs 2.
I can make a video of any GWF with 30-35k IBS on 10k Cws .So?
I'd like to see those pictures as well.
Face it, OP skewed his own reporting by only showing their loses to one of the best PVP guilds in the game. You can't expect 5 no-name GWFs to compete with Chocolate Shoppe.
I'm sure you guys pug-stomped as well but for some reason, OP isn't showing the matches where their party trolled the other pug team.
Lotsa BS written here^ using BS video vs GS scrubs to prove a point.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Thanks man for taking the time to write what I think down, I couldnt bring myself to do it. Nezrael is yet another hopeless player who desperately wants to be OP at all costs.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Takedown vs Bull Charge : PvP wise Bull Charge is a prone. Takedown is a stun. You say Takedown (stun) is better than prone? You have got to be joking! Additionally Bull Charge covers a range, something that GWF has to do with Sprint > Takedown or TR > Takedown. The reaction times are a lot faster and safer. Also do you know the difference between a stun and prone?
Anvil of Doom vs IBS You execute this only after a target is prone or stunned. The damage scales much better.
Sprint vs Shield I think even people who don't play neverwinter would know which one is stronger.
Overall defense Don't tell me you think GF is more tanky and survive more than GWF.
It's a known fact, on 1v1 GF vs GWF 18k+ GS, a GF is miles ahead. Or are you claiming they stand on equal grounds ? In what world is this true? Please don't distort the FACTS.
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1. I am a GWF in page ranking between pages 35-60 on average, so I think I understand my class mechanics.
2. You can use sprinting behind GF use TD and execute some damage as much as you want but at the end GF will overwhelmingly dominate a GWF on same GS as long as it's 18k+. The difference of 1v1 PvP GWF and GF is significant. Again, this is a known FACT. A lot of strong players have tested this over and over again, and resulted in the same outcome, some top level GWF have also switched to GF before mod 4 release.
Additionally I am not saying GF should be nerfed. I think GF is fine the way it is, it's GWF that needs a boost! I would give up the immune free sprint for better unstoppable and better damage/defense/cc any given day.
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Sprint: It's not that when there is more than one boss and one add the ground is 100% red and there is nowhere to sprint to. It's that running away from the danger has never ever been what a Melee fighter does. It's an out of the blue, absurd invention by one dev in one game. Unfortunately this one.
Unstoppable: It's not only that cc is not what kills you, it's how are you supposed to ever build it? Even the damage by trash mobs kills you, a full Unstoppable bar is useless when dead at campfire.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Well, that Steamroller GWF did pretty well in the match. Outperformed the 4 CWs in kills and caps.
1. Red Glyph + CW = The damage was so 50% to 70% of our health nearly evaporated by time we sprinted to flag at start.
* Notice we are all on purified black ice x 4, that's the most tank armor available.
2. After that our team got broken running in all directions and they out each GWF one at a time almost evaporated each time we approached. (we tried hitting different flag points by breaking them)
3. Whatever was left was under CC, in this state a GWF can land a finisher and take a kill.
4. Personally, unlike pugs these CW were better skilled and dodged my CC attacks (takedown, I also tried FLS) and I am sure my team felt the same.
5. By the time we could successfully land say, 1 IBS the next minute we were dead.
The GWF got a free CC thanks to the CW and using a broken feat. Rest of what is out-perform ? Looking at the score line and capturing flag when everyone is dead? SW is also quite formidable. So CW and SW have clear strong roles as dps. In reality, a 5th CW would have worked even better for that team - may be we were lucky to get that 2 points.
To me this game play is a major concern. Why? Because majority of GWF play IV > Destroyer for PvP. It's the most popular GWF class, most forum posts in barracks focus on this tree.
About mod 5
Now mod 5 there is changes being made to CW, HR and SW. So it's worth waiting and seeing.
TR - lost perma stealth, but in return gained more damage and I think it will still out-do GWF for same GS. Not sure yet.
GF will still beat GWF in the same margin and it's significant.
I am also doubtful if HR changes will bring an equal balance. But again, it's worth wait and see how the new change effects each class.
DC has some interesting changes, and it's too early to say anything yet.
However the new gears that are going to roll out, seem to be big and GWF will scale with the least benefit. I really think the GWF needs at least "1" prone to be viable, so we can land our major encounters. Right now the miss % ratio is too high and does not feel smooth vs a lot of classes. I honestly feel, the changes in mod5 will be insufficient for our class and the developers need to re-evaluate our class mechanics.
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lol.
at least unlock your third boon and get to iwd before posting.
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Converning PvE (I think alot of class changes are terrible as they effect PvP mostly and do not consider PvE, they really need to start separating the two and making changes for each separately.)
Ahaha yah, I have been out DPS'd by 14k CWs in Skirmish (I'm 18k+ Destroyer). I had around 1.5m and he had 3.4m. I have 3 slotted Epic Artifacts and he only had 1 Rare quality
The significant loss of damage is the result of multiple nerfs and the fact that CWs can effectively spam AoE while never taking damage at a range... whereas if a GWF uses an AoE setup either you don't have enough threat to even land the hits or you will be QUICKLY overrun since you are trying to face tank hoards of mobs.
The best we can hope for is moderate single-target DPS and assist with kiting. I just ran eLoL several times and both CWs in my group had 1-5m higher damage despite being similar GS.
It remains a fact that putting the same amount of time, effort, money into GS and build on a GWF will net you less DPS and less success than if you did the same on a HR, TR, CW, or SW. Albeit, not in PvE vs. a TR. I understand the buffs TR gets in PvE, it's much-needed to make them useful outside of Domination.
After Mod 5, GWF will literally be bottom of the totem pole in DPS classes. Only now we can choose if we want to be Instigator, Destroyer, or Sentinel and still remain horribly viable.
HUZZAH! -_-
Lastly PvE and PvP build are completely different builds with a difference of 20k HP, and AoW set. You need to build a second character. However I am not a fan of a PvE GWF, I play PvE with GF (which to me serves a better role as Melee class than a PvE oriented GWF any given day). There is no real purpose of a PvE GWF as there no need for an off tank. Tank is GF, Heal is DC, dps is CW/SW/HR. TR and GWF in PvE ? Ugh, I don't know man.
The reason I play GWF is I always play a beserker role for PvP in any MMORPG. This is what I enjoy, and in a game the entire idea is to have fun (not necessarily be the OP class). However at this point, I feel the GWF needs more steam to be "viable".
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Nop its not try to test it on sentinel .
AoD x2 dmg affected by dr & tenacity.
IBS 30 % more dmg and cannot be mignated its an executioner.
Another good example is CW with Shild on tab. AoD cant finish her but IBS exe feated can do the dirty work.
So Destroyer can finish sentinel in unstoppable with low hp (IBS feated executioner style) in the mean time AoD can only finish sentinel if he have realy realy low hp or her unstoppable is over .
GF has been nerfed enough already, first my old build gets nerfed a few weeks ago now people want to nerf my new build I replace it with. It takes 3 encounters just to be able to make this work good, and sacrifice survivability to do this.
If a CW is on shield, it's bad idea to execute IBS anyway without "some stun", which doesn't quite fit in because to execute IBS and your opponent dodging it is almost a death note. Again for the same reasons you do not want to execute an IBS on GWF without a stun, as it can be dodged easily. On top of that stun gets affected by control resist and tenacity, a 3s stun honestly feels like 1.3 to 1.5 secs at most.
My point is, GWF needs "one" prone to safely execute an IBS, I am not criticizing GF at all, no way they should be nerfed, don't misread -I think they are good as they are, I think GWF rotation on landing encounters should be similar to that of GF.
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click Q go in pvp and 5 min later ..... been 1 hit kill by anvil of doom when u at 40% hp. rage quit and come in forum NERF anvil of doom !!!
comeon dude it don't work this way... do you even had a lvl 60 GF to begin with ???
now my gwf is just a sitting duck in the main pages and I stop playing him for good., now I am loving my GF more
The gwf is a veteran tanky geared gwf and on top of that all he got to do was protect the DPS battery and finish the job...
My guess btw is, currently ranged DPS > gwf
Make a gwf vs GF or TR team and might work better if gwfs are good.
That match also was flawed by glyphs cause everyone knows red glyphs are >>>>> on CW/SW/TR/HR and much less effective on fighters.
Remake it with no cheap nab red glyphs and might work better. Only skill-less nabs/kids use reds. And this is a fact.
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