"I'm not saying that it should be totally one sided or the other. You are refusing to accept that some of us, want to play our wizards as Dps first and foremost. Over controllers."
The Control Wizard is a control class first and formost, And Dps should be right behind control.
"FACT: A Dead mob, does not need control. Burst fast enough and your control is wasted."
Is this forreal? did you just wrote something like that down?
The control wizard is primarily design to control mobs, not to insta kill things, seriously are you even putting any thoughts into you comments, or are you just spewing things out as they register on your brain?
If we have control wizards going around insta blasting, and killing things doesnt that destroy the whole idea behind the class?
I'm sorry, but im done with you, you bring no logic or whatsoever in this conversation.
I bet you are one of those CWs that were pissed off when they said they were going to nerf CWs damage output, You would expect an almost 20k CW to have good and excellent knowledge about their class. Sad day indeed.
I wont be responding to you any longer.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited September 2014
Whenever people start making the "blah-blah control class, not dps class, that's how they are in D&D", someone else counters by actually linking up D&D source material that states control wizards control the battlefield via a combination of CC and AoE. A dead mob is indeed a controlled mob.
No, CW's are supposed to deal AOE damage as a form of control. That part of the CW's job description does come straight from D&D. CWs aren't supposed to be single-target nukers, and nobody advocates for that. That is how the CW differs from GWFs, SWs and TRs who all should have substantial single-target damage-dealing abilities, and rightfully so.
When I solo q PvP I still tab shard because I miss it
It's never on my bar in a serious match, though.
In PvE, the explosion annoys people like Repel or Ice Storm (best PvE daily) since it scatters mobs or causes other players to miss abilities. There's simply just better options in terms of both dps and control, such as feating your Sudden Storm to chill stack or using Icy Terrain.
Unfortunately in both PvE/PvP the cons outweigh the pros, the risk is not rewarded, and other options are always more appealing.
Things that would make me want to slot Shard again:
Bug fixes -- Shard gets stuck everywhere, for a big ball it's surprisingly reluctant to move on inclined surfaces and likes to cling to vertical surfaces if cast near them (IWD mountains, PvP walls, GG nodes, etc.). Shard decides to be nice sometimes and pass through players/mobs or not prone them (commonly occurs when other AoEs are active in the area like Hallowed Ground and Thorn Ward, also occurs completely randomly).
Reduced casting and/or cooldown time -- Shard is even harder to land in PvP now and rewards a lot less. A big gaping 15sec cooldown that was interrupted and did nothing for you simply doesn't fly in this meta.
No longer disappears when you are CC'd -- Shard was most effective against GWF/GF since prones would not cause Shard to disappear once conjured. Now that these have been changed to stuns, unless you are 1v1 or manage to control every enemy around you before casting, it will be interrupted every time by a skilled player.
and the elephant in the room..
More damage! -- 1-2k more damage on slam and splosion would easily bring Shard back to PvP.
kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
edited September 2014
When they nerfed Shard, we got extended prone times, unfortunately that doesn't work reliably. I've got a substantial control bonus on my primary CW, but I watch add's bounce up after about 1 second. Looks like we need a new bug list....
In PvE, the explosion annoys people like Repel or Ice Storm (best PvE daily) since it scatters mobs or causes other players to miss abilities.
hi, jayrad!
could you please make it more precisely - why is Ice Storm best pve daily? i didn't see for a long time a single high or even mediocre gs cw using it instead of OF. have i missed something?
hi, jayrad!
could you please make it more precisely - why is Ice Storm best pve daily? i didn't see for a long time a single high or even mediocre gs cw using it instead of OF. have i missed something?
It does a lot of damage, unfortunately if you don't kill everything with it, you just made the fight worse. This is why it's the worst daily in the game.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
It does a lot of damage, unfortunately if you don't kill everything with it, you just made the fight worse. This is why it's the worst daily in the game.
Hell with those stupid CWs that spam repel and all sort of SCATTERING abilities. Playing as a HR and you come across one of those that use ice storm, not only that but spam repel and shield force.
Why is it always CWs that get blamed for scattering mobs? I won't count times when some melee (GWF or GF) pushed mobs away, so that my perfectly aimed Sudden Storm missed ALL of them or they were pushed from Icy terrain range. Yet I don't see complains that they shouldn't be using whatever this freakin' skill is called. And I don't see people complain about HR seismic daily that also messed my rotation more then once.
Like most people I don't like ice storm, and repel and shield I consider purely occasional skill (pushing mobs off edges, boss fight for shield). The thing is, classes will sometimes mess one another play, but it is not CW only speciality.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Why is it always CWs that get blamed for scattering mobs? I won't count times when some melee (GWF or GF) pushed mobs away, so that my perfectly aimed Sudden Storm missed ALL of them or they were pushed from Icy terrain range. Yet I don't see complains that they shouldn't be using whatever this freakin' skill is called. And I don't see people complain about HR seismic daily that also messed my rotation more then once.
Like most people I don't like ice storm, and repel and shield I consider purely occasional skill (pushing mobs off edges, boss fight for shield). The thing is, classes will sometimes mess one another play, but it is not CW only speciality.
Talking about bull charge GFs? Hell, why would you even use frontline surge in a dungeon anymore let alone bull charge.
Talking about bull charge GFs? Hell, why would you even use frontline surge in a dungeon anymore let alone bull charge.
People still use FLS sometimes, that's annoying too. It's just that while FLS knocks them a few feet, Ice storm and repel knock them into the next county.
People still use FLS sometimes, that's annoying too. It's just that while FLS knocks them a few feet, Ice storm and repel knock them into the next county.
so after FLS mobs fall down or just moved away a bit? cause i don't know the name of gf/gwf power that knocks mobs down - really like it. after mobs down i jump in with my steal time, then freezing everything and so on
I call a five target prone that does no real damage basically useless in PvE. I still see people using it every so often, but frankly CW does so much better when you concentrate on keeping things in one tiny area instead of spreading them to the four corners of the map.
Shard does nothing useful in virtually any of the content from a damage dealing or control perspective unless you are slow boating the dungeon one pull at a time. (Which is basically a waste of time once you know what you're doing as CW at any GS.)
Sadly, I see some people who consider themselves "Pro" PvE players still using it. It makes me sad to see people wasting their time with Shard when they pull half of CN to the doors and are almost killing themselves to prone 5 add's that immediately vaporize just after Shard hits.
Take Shard off your bar. Never put it there again.
Oh, and as to Ice Storm it doesn't even do superior damage. You only use it when you're either one or both of the following;
A) A troll who laughs at <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up dungeon runs. A fool that got trolled into thinking Ice Storm is useful.
That's it. That's the grand sum of people who use it. People will make excuses and say 'but it's useful at X because Y' but really that's a joke. OF does more damage than Ice Storm if you know what you're doing even against just 5 targets. (Which is the maximum target cap of Ice Storm, by the way.)
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
Control Wizards primarily focus on controlling the battlefield and dealing damage to a large number of creatures simultaneously. Because of the wizard's role as a controller, they possess more crowd control options than any other class. Their ability to deal high amounts of damage gives them the secondary role of striker. They wield a magical orb and are capable of unleashing torrents of damage on enemy parties. They can only wear cloth armor.
A character with the controller role primarily handles crowds by creating hazardous terrain and repositioning enemies, or spreading conditions and damage over multiple enemies
Damage = control. With GFs able to agro everything, damage is the only control we need.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
People still use FLS sometimes, that's annoying too. It's just that while FLS knocks them a few feet, Ice storm and repel knock them into the next county.
FLS almost as pointless as shard now. Way better options. But least shard has an RNG CHANCE to prone for 3 seconds!
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited September 2014
FLS does decent AE damage.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
hi, jayrad!
could you please make it more precisely - why is Ice Storm best pve daily? i didn't see for a long time a single high or even mediocre gs cw using it instead of OF. have i missed something?
Haha I was just joking and poking fun at an earlier post in the CW forum asking people to stop using Ice Storm in PvE
matiagronxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 251Arc User
edited September 2014
Clearly all the cws here are speaking for all the dungeons except the new Epic ToD Skirmish and Dungeon. These 2 are a COMPLETELY different game in terms of handling adds, control is essential with these adds. Shard's prone is priceless, as Entangling Force also or freezing. It seems cryptic done a step in the correct direction BUT the previous content is left as it is, hence the shard's seems nerfed for this content, thought its definetely not. Currently its the only big AOE prone encounter with a huge duration combined with the +75% Orb of Imposition passive. So the truth about Shard is not so simple.
Clearly all the cws here are speaking for all the dungeons except the new Epic ToD Skirmish and Dungeon. These 2 are a COMPLETELY different game in terms of handling adds, control is essential with these adds. Shard's prone is priceless, as Entangling Force also or freezing. It seems cryptic done a step in the correct direction BUT the previous content is left as it is, hence the shard's seems nerfed for this content, thought its definetely not. Currently its the only big AOE prone encounter with a huge duration combined with the +75% Orb of Imposition passive. So the truth about Shard is not so simple.
I'll say that when I do the Tuern skirmish or Lostmauth dungeon, I haven't yet had to use Shard, even though I would agree that very good control is a lot more important in these two encounters than in any of the other dungeons (with the possible exception of Draco fight of course). With my MOF Oppressor CW, in these, I will usually use CoI on tab, Icy Terrain, Steal Time and Entangle, with the Orb of Imposition and Critical Conflagration passives. I'll start by entangling a particularly nasty baddie (green archer or rage drake) while applying chill via CoI and Icy Terrain, and using Steal Time to get around the chill immunity. If all goes well, then the mob is basically immobilized while the melee fighters can finish off the mobs.
I have used Shard in the Draco fight (in mod4) when I was only 1 of 2 CW's, and we weren't 20k monsters but more like 15k, and we had good SWs and GWFs providing sustained DPS to kill all the proned adds.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited September 2014
Tonight i pulled almost all the mobs in CN, party was slow behind me, so I was fighting 40+ mobs at once. Without shard, I would be dead (no sudden storm since i'm MoF).
The control and the procs of this are really underestimated. Just because it doesn't do insane damage anymore doesn't mean it's useless.
Maybe I'm the only one that thinks this way, but I don't like shard because of the lack of control. I mean, Sing then steal time and icy terrain are much better control for keeping things in a nice neat bunch. And chilling cloud with an artefact weapon giving extra stacks freezes things pretty quickly, everything is usually dead before it gets a chance to move.
Shard screws up the whole group's AOE and basically shows you don't care anything about the team at all; of that's a personal choice for your style of play, but don't call it "control", because it scatters everything and basically makes things tougher for the group.
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited September 2014
The point about where to use shard is good to know. Shard is useful for big pulls - say in CN - and because of how my spec is working i do better the more mobs i hit at once. Therefore it works great here.
I would never, ever use shard in eSOT. There aren't enough mobs. I was running fanning, conduit, icy, steal time for the clear.
Before anyone says MoF have no DPS i was winning paingiver almost every time against spellstorms with vorpals so
Comments
The Control Wizard is a control class first and formost, And Dps should be right behind control.
"FACT: A Dead mob, does not need control. Burst fast enough and your control is wasted."
Is this forreal? did you just wrote something like that down?
The control wizard is primarily design to control mobs, not to insta kill things, seriously are you even putting any thoughts into you comments, or are you just spewing things out as they register on your brain?
If we have control wizards going around insta blasting, and killing things doesnt that destroy the whole idea behind the class?
I'm sorry, but im done with you, you bring no logic or whatsoever in this conversation.
I bet you are one of those CWs that were pissed off when they said they were going to nerf CWs damage output, You would expect an almost 20k CW to have good and excellent knowledge about their class. Sad day indeed.
I wont be responding to you any longer.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
By that definition then GWF, SW, TRs are all Control classes, because they can all kill Mobs.
Still feel smart with that comment?
It's never on my bar in a serious match, though.
In PvE, the explosion annoys people like Repel or Ice Storm (best PvE daily) since it scatters mobs or causes other players to miss abilities. There's simply just better options in terms of both dps and control, such as feating your Sudden Storm to chill stack or using Icy Terrain.
Unfortunately in both PvE/PvP the cons outweigh the pros, the risk is not rewarded, and other options are always more appealing.
Things that would make me want to slot Shard again:
Bug fixes -- Shard gets stuck everywhere, for a big ball it's surprisingly reluctant to move on inclined surfaces and likes to cling to vertical surfaces if cast near them (IWD mountains, PvP walls, GG nodes, etc.). Shard decides to be nice sometimes and pass through players/mobs or not prone them (commonly occurs when other AoEs are active in the area like Hallowed Ground and Thorn Ward, also occurs completely randomly).
Reduced casting and/or cooldown time -- Shard is even harder to land in PvP now and rewards a lot less. A big gaping 15sec cooldown that was interrupted and did nothing for you simply doesn't fly in this meta.
No longer disappears when you are CC'd -- Shard was most effective against GWF/GF since prones would not cause Shard to disappear once conjured. Now that these have been changed to stuns, unless you are 1v1 or manage to control every enemy around you before casting, it will be interrupted every time by a skilled player.
and the elephant in the room..
More damage! -- 1-2k more damage on slam and splosion would easily bring Shard back to PvP.
twitch.tv/ezracw | absolutegaming.guildportal.com
#BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay
hi, jayrad!
could you please make it more precisely - why is Ice Storm best pve daily? i didn't see for a long time a single high or even mediocre gs cw using it instead of OF. have i missed something?
It does a lot of damage, unfortunately if you don't kill everything with it, you just made the fight worse. This is why it's the worst daily in the game.
Hell with those stupid CWs that spam repel and all sort of SCATTERING abilities. Playing as a HR and you come across one of those that use ice storm, not only that but spam repel and shield force.
Like most people I don't like ice storm, and repel and shield I consider purely occasional skill (pushing mobs off edges, boss fight for shield). The thing is, classes will sometimes mess one another play, but it is not CW only speciality.
Talking about bull charge GFs? Hell, why would you even use frontline surge in a dungeon anymore let alone bull charge.
People still use FLS sometimes, that's annoying too. It's just that while FLS knocks them a few feet, Ice storm and repel knock them into the next county.
so after FLS mobs fall down or just moved away a bit? cause i don't know the name of gf/gwf power that knocks mobs down - really like it. after mobs down i jump in with my steal time, then freezing everything and so on
Shard does nothing useful in virtually any of the content from a damage dealing or control perspective unless you are slow boating the dungeon one pull at a time. (Which is basically a waste of time once you know what you're doing as CW at any GS.)
Sadly, I see some people who consider themselves "Pro" PvE players still using it. It makes me sad to see people wasting their time with Shard when they pull half of CN to the doors and are almost killing themselves to prone 5 add's that immediately vaporize just after Shard hits.
Take Shard off your bar. Never put it there again.
Oh, and as to Ice Storm it doesn't even do superior damage. You only use it when you're either one or both of the following;
A) A troll who laughs at <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up dungeon runs.
That's it. That's the grand sum of people who use it. People will make excuses and say 'but it's useful at X because Y' but really that's a joke. OF does more damage than Ice Storm if you know what you're doing even against just 5 targets. (Which is the maximum target cap of Ice Storm, by the way.)
http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Controller
Damage = control. With GFs able to agro everything, damage is the only control we need.
FLS almost as pointless as shard now. Way better options. But least shard has an RNG CHANCE to prone for 3 seconds!
Does no more than enforced threat now!
Haha I was just joking and poking fun at an earlier post in the CW forum asking people to stop using Ice Storm in PvE
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?754951-A-stern-message-from-a-fellow-PvE-GWF-to-you&highlight=Stop+Storm
The answer to which one is better is entirely subjective and situational as they both have their uses, but I choose OF 100% of the time.
twitch.tv/ezracw | absolutegaming.guildportal.com
#BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
It averages between 20-40K for my GWF.
I'll say that when I do the Tuern skirmish or Lostmauth dungeon, I haven't yet had to use Shard, even though I would agree that very good control is a lot more important in these two encounters than in any of the other dungeons (with the possible exception of Draco fight of course). With my MOF Oppressor CW, in these, I will usually use CoI on tab, Icy Terrain, Steal Time and Entangle, with the Orb of Imposition and Critical Conflagration passives. I'll start by entangling a particularly nasty baddie (green archer or rage drake) while applying chill via CoI and Icy Terrain, and using Steal Time to get around the chill immunity. If all goes well, then the mob is basically immobilized while the melee fighters can finish off the mobs.
I have used Shard in the Draco fight (in mod4) when I was only 1 of 2 CW's, and we weren't 20k monsters but more like 15k, and we had good SWs and GWFs providing sustained DPS to kill all the proned adds.
The control and the procs of this are really underestimated. Just because it doesn't do insane damage anymore doesn't mean it's useless.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Shard screws up the whole group's AOE and basically shows you don't care anything about the team at all; of that's a personal choice for your style of play, but don't call it "control", because it scatters everything and basically makes things tougher for the group.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I would never, ever use shard in eSOT. There aren't enough mobs. I was running fanning, conduit, icy, steal time for the clear.
Before anyone says MoF have no DPS i was winning paingiver almost every time against spellstorms with vorpals so
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
another one spellstorm with vorpal