I had to use shard the oher night in draco fight, just 2 cw (once in draco i had to actually remove my hr and que with cw to get it done) and other wasnt very experienced there, so i though sacking coi for another control spell would be a good idea.
but generally just the it+ss combo with steal time is more than enough control and more dps.
Shard prones what, five things? Fighting 40 maybe it helps to reduce things to 35 but I really doubt it.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited September 2014
Lets look at shard in terms of what you would replace on your bar if you were to slot it. I play the Thaum SS CW (ie Stormspell, not spellstorm ) and I use CoI (tab); steal time; sudden storm and icy terrain. If I want to solo an epic dungeon, I swap one of them out for shield and then against single target I swap out abilities for things like ray of enfeeblement and icy rays. Now, sticking to the basic rotation and assuming I am not soloing a dungeon, lets take a look at the generic set of abilities and consider them in terms of how shard compares.
Shard: Deals minimal small amount of damage, assuming it explodes it does no DoT, gives it only a few opportunities to proc passives, only has a chance at control, no chill, has high target cap.
CoI: In any party where you have a SW this is amazing as the damage dealt by this is sent to targets via TT when its active. On top of this, CoI does freeze and because of its DoT's it has multiple opportunities to proc multiple things.
Steal time: Has multiple ticks in which it can proc passives, does high damage and does mass stun. Disadvantage being casting time.
Sudden storm: Does nice damage, adds chill stacks, can be used in combination with other abilities to cause freeze.
Icy terrain: Quick cast, has high target cap, is good for proccing passives and adds chill stacks.
In comparison with all these other abilities, which one would you take out of your rotation for the ability to use shard? All those other abilities compliment each other and if you take pauses between casting you can have a pseudo perma control, alternating between freeze, stun and oppressive force. The stacks of chill and the way that abilities combo with each other makes these abilities fit well together, by removing any of them you make the entire group of them weaker as due to its lack of freeze or clear cut control, shard is not a very controlling ability. The problem with it in the current builds is there is nothing you can take out of the current builds without making all the other abilities inherently weaker. In the old renegade build I played pre nerf, it very much played a prominent role but unless that playstyle gets made viable again and the ability gets buffed, I don't see shard being relevant.
Lets look at shard in terms of what you would replace on your bar if you were to slot it.
i think the main idea with not slotting shard in case of SS is about chill stacks from sudden storm. in m3 i didn't use sudden that much. as for MoF - they simply don't have such opportunity so the choice differs quite often.
Generally speaking encounters that hit 5 targets are bad unless they do a lot of damage. Shard is now pure control as it's damage is incredibly bad for a top tier encounter. (And I say generally because you are almost always fighting more than 5 things. Perhaps as many as dozens of things.)
My issue with Shard is that it's Prone CC is overwritten by any other CC. So if you're using Steal Time? They stand up instantly when stunned. You freeze them? They stand up instantly when frozen. Sure, this gives you time to overlap CC but you are only hitting 5 things with most of that CC and they absolutely do not stack. They overwrite one another. This is the problem with such a rotation. If you're going to use a CC encounter why not just stick with steal time, CoI, and Icy Terrain? They will absolutely do the job without Shard.
All shard is going to do is spread things out, reduce both your damage and the parties, and be almost instantly overwritten with freeze that stands them right back up again. If Shard is going to be a CC encounter it's target limit needs to be upped from five to either eight or ten before it becomes value added in my mind.
If you want to 'control' in PvE you should be using things that gather and contain add's. EF on Tab, Icy Terrain, Steal Time, and Shard. In this scenario you can use EF to pull them back together after Shard which negates most of it's downsides. If you're a MoF you can use FI as well and keep things gathered most of the time. This is effective control. Keeping things locked down while they are spread out is not 'control' it's making the dungeon take longer.
So basically if you're going to use Shard use EF in tab. It will make everyone's life easier.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
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but generally just the it+ss combo with steal time is more than enough control and more dps.
Shard: Deals minimal small amount of damage, assuming it explodes it does no DoT, gives it only a few opportunities to proc passives, only has a chance at control, no chill, has high target cap.
CoI: In any party where you have a SW this is amazing as the damage dealt by this is sent to targets via TT when its active. On top of this, CoI does freeze and because of its DoT's it has multiple opportunities to proc multiple things.
Steal time: Has multiple ticks in which it can proc passives, does high damage and does mass stun. Disadvantage being casting time.
Sudden storm: Does nice damage, adds chill stacks, can be used in combination with other abilities to cause freeze.
Icy terrain: Quick cast, has high target cap, is good for proccing passives and adds chill stacks.
In comparison with all these other abilities, which one would you take out of your rotation for the ability to use shard? All those other abilities compliment each other and if you take pauses between casting you can have a pseudo perma control, alternating between freeze, stun and oppressive force. The stacks of chill and the way that abilities combo with each other makes these abilities fit well together, by removing any of them you make the entire group of them weaker as due to its lack of freeze or clear cut control, shard is not a very controlling ability. The problem with it in the current builds is there is nothing you can take out of the current builds without making all the other abilities inherently weaker. In the old renegade build I played pre nerf, it very much played a prominent role but unless that playstyle gets made viable again and the ability gets buffed, I don't see shard being relevant.
Just my 2 cents
i think the main idea with not slotting shard in case of SS is about chill stacks from sudden storm. in m3 i didn't use sudden that much. as for MoF - they simply don't have such opportunity so the choice differs quite often.
My issue with Shard is that it's Prone CC is overwritten by any other CC. So if you're using Steal Time? They stand up instantly when stunned. You freeze them? They stand up instantly when frozen. Sure, this gives you time to overlap CC but you are only hitting 5 things with most of that CC and they absolutely do not stack. They overwrite one another. This is the problem with such a rotation. If you're going to use a CC encounter why not just stick with steal time, CoI, and Icy Terrain? They will absolutely do the job without Shard.
All shard is going to do is spread things out, reduce both your damage and the parties, and be almost instantly overwritten with freeze that stands them right back up again. If Shard is going to be a CC encounter it's target limit needs to be upped from five to either eight or ten before it becomes value added in my mind.
If you want to 'control' in PvE you should be using things that gather and contain add's. EF on Tab, Icy Terrain, Steal Time, and Shard. In this scenario you can use EF to pull them back together after Shard which negates most of it's downsides. If you're a MoF you can use FI as well and keep things gathered most of the time. This is effective control. Keeping things locked down while they are spread out is not 'control' it's making the dungeon take longer.
So basically if you're going to use Shard use EF in tab. It will make everyone's life easier.