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AH modification needed
mcmetal1
Member Posts: 63
I'm sure we've all experienced the woes of the undercutters. What I think is needed is one or more of the following.
1 - Ability to modify buyout price without taking down auction.
2 - If someone wants to post a new item it must be either the same price (or higher) as the lowest item (and goes into it's proper place in line) or at least 10% lower than the lowest price.
It's pretty ridiculous that you can get locked out of selling an item because of folks posting a couple of AD lower.... If they want to post for a quick sale, np, but require it to be at least 10% lower than the lowest price.
1 - Ability to modify buyout price without taking down auction.
2 - If someone wants to post a new item it must be either the same price (or higher) as the lowest item (and goes into it's proper place in line) or at least 10% lower than the lowest price.
It's pretty ridiculous that you can get locked out of selling an item because of folks posting a couple of AD lower.... If they want to post for a quick sale, np, but require it to be at least 10% lower than the lowest price.
Post edited by mcmetal1 on
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Missing subcategories (like Tools and Assets), buyout sorting that simply doesn't work sometimes, searches that turn up items sometimes and not others..to just name a few.
I'm just gonna say that sounds ridiculous, i like people undercutting each other that's how you get decent prices on the market. If u want to just re-list your item(s) at prices below theirs.
To each their own. I can live with Tools and Assets being within their respective professions category. Buyout sorting is just bugged, that's a different issue. Feel free to add to the list of things that need to be fixed.
For now, the way undercutting works folks can keep you from being able to sell an item and can effectively "jump" the line.
So your ok with posting an item for 4,000,000 AD and 2 people putting it up for 3,999,999 after those 2 sell, another 2 come up for that same price? I'm not making this example up.
Re-read my post. It's fine if someone wants to price for a quick sale, just do it 10% lower. Pricing something at 3,999,999 when the lowest item up is 4,000,000 is just cutting the line, not offering a better price.
Ummm that's how AH's work, it's not a line, there is no cutting the line. I'm against 99% of the stuff with the economy of mmo's but this........ This is wai for the system that is used.
Yep I'm perfectly fine with that, here is an interesting idea just re-list your item at 3,999,998, unless that 2 AD is just that valuable to you... Is this the 1st game u ever played with a market?
So I should take an 80,000 loss just for your amusement?
ROFL, my amusement.... hardly, but if you want to sell your item you might just have to do that. This is the way markets work FYI.
Yeah, your amusement. You think it's fun to have folks lose their posting fees to combat line jumpers posting an item for 1AD lower than them. Hence my recommendation for allowing folks to be able to change their price without having to take down their auction. Did you miss that part of my post? I shouldn't have to take a loss because of a flawed system that encourages folks to cut the line. Pricing 1 AD lower is not giving a better price, it's cutting the line plain and simple.
Oh, yeah... then YOU could be the under-cutter, free of worry. Sounds great.
It's fine the way it is, IMO.
Oh, and I usually post WAY lower than the next lowest. Knowing that most likely another player is buying my junk and posting it closer to the normal price. I'm good with that.
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Your mistake is thinking that there is a line. There is no line.
Do i think its fun... no, does it happen to everyone, even me... yes. Its something we all have to face its just the way the market works, and as stated above theirs no line its an AUCTION HOUSE.
Thing is, "fixes" in order to combat people being *unscrupulous* are generally not in the cards, or end up enabling some worse way for people to be *unscrupulous*.
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I could also see people finding sweet spots for items where it makes no sense going higher or lower (IE salvagable items) and locking everyone else out.
The listing tax is a needed ad sink here though.
Same here. If gmop are slightly under 100k, I'd also rather remove it all completely from the economy. However what is changing the amount they can undercut you by gonna do? They're still going to undercut you, it's just that if they don't sell, you have to sell for much less than you otherwise would. Market prices can be completely wrecked because one person wants a quick sale so makes a super attractive low price listing, and then other people just want to sell their items so undercut that person... If they all undercut by a small amount, then the same amount will likely sell and the market price can stay about the same. Of course undercutting by 1 ad is kind of rude.
(Yes, I know I missed the point
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
You follow the market and you post at the fairest price at the time of selling. If someone undercuts you consider the following;
1. Your auction has been up for a while, hasn't sold and undercutting person posted at a cheaper price in hopes of selling
2. Cheaper item sells making his price the new benchmark until there are no others at that price
~or~
2. Item doesn't sell and someone else undercuts the original undercutter and process repeats until true market value is found
All the AH consists of is commodity items. No value added services. It runs strictly off the supply and demand role of things. You do not get the choose how much your item sells for. Commodities sell for how much people are willing to pay for it.There are no lines, but deals. People want deals, but if you're the only game in town selling that level 10 ***** enchantment or there is only two people with the +6" size increase utility enchantment, the price gets decided by you.
But if it's an enchantment stack like R5 radiants or something as such, you will follow the market. The market will not follow you. And complaining about posting fees is childish. You pay for posting fees on ebay even if you don't sell (or used to). Companies pay to put an item on a shelf, to advertise (that's why you own those ****ty beats by derp). If someone undercuts them, they either respond the same, or wait until the competitor runs out of stock and you still have some left. Free market environment.
TL;DR Quit crying this is how markets work. Posting fees apply to real world situations as well. You are not selling anything special. There are no lines. Free market *****es.
Can anyone dispute the fact that the intended use of the AH was to provide a way to more or less trade or get items that have strict RNG on them where some get more than they need or want while others get nothing at all? Its a method to allow those who are not "lucky" to still get items that have harsh or very low drop rates.
Instead we have a system that is mainly to bilk casual players out of their earned currency to avoid refining caps and get instant cash reserves. In fact its such a racket that now we have entire guilds of people that farm dungeons and what not for BoE gear with the intent to sell, punishing anyone who does not agree or adhear to the etiquette that BoE is to be sold for profit to noobs and people who plan on buying their way to epic gear as opposed to earning it. In some cases its also for people with a dozen toons to gear without having to run even more dungeons to get things.
It seems to me that the BoE drop was too low and instead of fixing that the solution was to add chests with BoP items that furthered this menatility of "don't need on BoE its to be sold".
Personally I think one of 2 things need to happen, do away with AH selling gear for AD and make it flat trade piece for piece or you can visit the salvage vendor. Or you can just limit the price spread items sell for ... its already there where the AH recommends a price, why not just put fixed values and players can ONLY sell in those values, that at least would maintain cost levels of items and do away with this multi-million pricing scheme that goes on with stuff ... which should have the side effect of start to curb how much AD is flowing around. Stock piling AD would have less meaning as what good is having millions of AD if the most expensive thing you can buy is 100k - 1 million (marks of potency and training books for mounts). It will be either Spend your AD or just stair at it as it hits cap and think how awesome you are for having 100million AD not nothing to do with it ... you can't buy out the AH and resell at profit since the price is fixed.
We need a "trade" house not an auction house. Players are incapable of maintaining an economy, no one understands that a common sale price needs to be adhered too, no what you have is over pricing then people undercutting either to get first sale because they are under by 1 AD (annoying and many posts commenting on that behavior) or people start undercutting for I guess a quick AD for whatever reason so they undercut so much that the next poster decides to do the same and the next thing you know if those don't sell fast then you have this HUGE depression of item value that no one wants to sell it.
Far too many extremes when players are given too much control ... since i'm sure many players are kids with no idea of value vs. time or even the value of anything for that matter ... they should not be part of the deciding factor of how an economy should work.
This is a game and not real world economics and as such should have fixed pricing that maintains the game balance for ALL players, whether they spend real money to buy zen market or sell to others for fast AD or who spend 10 hours a day vs. casual players who play 1 or 2 hours a day.
It cracks me up to see people talk about supply and demand like they have any idea of how players actions can impact a system ... players are people that do things for instant gratification with NO concern as to how it will affect anything but themselves. Economic systems are to maintain a balance of inflation and product pricing so that it does not go so far out of whack that a tulip would cost several million just because people have that to spend. Next thing you know everything value goes to h3ll in a handbasket and collapse follows.
Simple solution, this is a game, designers determine what they think they want something to be at based how hard they want people to work for it and set that price, done. Free market doesn't count, this is a game. If you want fast AD buy zen and sell it on the exchange to the free players that grind out AD to buy zen ...
The zen exchange is a prime example at how players are incapable of handling their own market ... not to say the fault lies entirely with them, this company is to blame for even making it an option for players to dictate zen price when clearly the company would like it to be in line with what they envision it to be ... i'm pretty sure the marketing team is quite happy with the static 500:1 zen/AD ratio and would be perfectly fine to never see that go down ... that being the case why even bother to suggest players have an option to sell for less or affect what it price is set at other than to drum up additional financing from investors at what a great system where players are the in control of everything when in reality they aren't they are just allowed to abuse or break whatever is in place until the company comes in to make changes to put things back into balance or at least where they think it should be.
Probably more than 2 cents worth of thought there.
People as a whole are incapable of self governance as it seems to be in human nature to manipulate for personal gain without regard to others. Games just allow this to be shown more.
My last thought ... what is wrong with make this a subscription game? I highly doubt you would lose that many players, sure the total freebie people would leave ... but honestly they would leave any way once they hit the point that they have to spend more time than they can give or want to give or spend actual money to get up to a more competitive level with others ... lets face it ... subscription model should push this game to have more working features ... not saying it would cure all bugs but should push for more complete working features. Subscription can provide incentives while preserving the free to play aspect ... sure the game is free to play ... but access to a mount costs you ... want more bank space ... subscribe. Want access to the latest mods? subscribe. The base game is all that is needed to maintain the free to play marketing ... the rest really should be a pay as you go.
To some degree if this game is affiliated that closely to wizards of the cost I don't know why they don't just incorporate DDO merge the companies or something and use the DDO model ... the game has modules that can be accessed by playing or by buying. Getting all content through playing takes a large amount of time but as I recall nothing unreasonable ... think ti would take a month of daily playing to earn enough to unlock certain modules.
My hat tips to game designers as it is not an easy task to come up with ideas of how things should work and mesh them together ... but there has to come to a point when you just gotta concede that something isn't working and make adjustments accordingly. ZAX was probably a good idea when it started ... AD was probably a decent concept in the beginning but the game has grown it really needs to make some adjustments or at least re-evaluate what the vision is supposed to be for this game.
Leave AD accumulation for dailies and buying of things from market vendors and other AD costing things (crafting).
The problem is with limited quantity items (say legendary mounts), that also have a limited pool of buyers. What happens is maybe 2 or 3 will sell per week. If you put your item up for say 4M and someone pops one up for 3,999,999 they aren't so much undercutting you, as they are getting their item to show up first in the list. If only 2 or 3 are selling per week, theirs will sell and yours will have to be relisted. Sure it's 1AD cheaper, and 99% of the time a potential buyer will just buy that one if for nothing other than it's easier.
IF they want a quick sale and think 4M is too high, then go post it for 3.5M or 2M or whatever. That I don't have a problem with. Just don't allow them to post it at 3,999,999 as that is a blatant exploit of the system.
as if your first comment wasn't long enough....
How much of an undercut is enough then? Somewhere between 2AD to 500,000AD from your post but where exactly to draw that line? It's going to annoy the next cheapest seller no matter what.
Your example is for an overvalued item with very little demand for the price point - not easy to make the sellers happy there.
On a more constructive note, a secondary, legitimate trade mechanism would be cool to have, one providing some safeguards to buyers and sellers and allowing for people to agree to a price on an exchange of goods or services. You can currently achieve this by working around the edges of the systems we do have - but I could see guilds or more social players enjoying a more structured system being available.
In general complaining of being undercut in the AH of a game seems very odd to me, but to each their own.
I do this all the time. I get upset when people undercut more than 1AD, they are killing my margins.
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Exactly. More than 1 ad you're just tanking the market.
I purposelly priced 10 Fey blessing at 651k cause I saw fishter list 10 at 650k and I didnt want to undercut him
PS they all dropped to like 40k per 3 hrs later, glad they sold. Again it really depends on the item and how fast I think itll move,
Example of undercuttin by 1AD. Sold steel needle for 1AD less yesterday, than other listing. why? u ask, because you need 4 to make the epic. So I figured someone would by them in bulk, which I rechecked later they did. (maybe they relisted for higher, idk)
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Then do what the real world does, always sell for X.999.998 so on and so worth. It's not an exploit, it's marketing. Be it a limited market or not.
If there are two Ferrari for sale in one city and one is cheaper by $10 but there are only 5 potential buys in town. Maybe one will buy the cheaper one, leaving only the $10 more expensive Ferrari left for the rest. And then it will be sold.
OR
Not a single one of the potential buyers buy either Ferrari cause they want a better deal. Or just want to wait to have more cash on hand.
EACH DEALERSHIP WILL HAVE TO RELIST THEIR FERRARI! And then each will drop the price by a percent and maybe then one of the buyers will pull the trigger.
You all need to quit acting like you're a special snow flake on the auction house. It's a free market system with posting fees. Free market means if someone wants to take a hit in their profit margin, so be it. They will not make as much money as you do, or they will. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't work as intended.
I bet you all *****ed like this in WoW about their AH too.