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GWF pve dps in mod 4

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  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ignore the CGI screenshoot . I do not even know where to start here to be honest. the fact of cgi damage bonus shown in parallel / ibs be aoe already complicates the feedback.



    the point is the damage of the battle fury + wms shown in the last screenshot.
  • spacejewspacejew Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    zacazu wrote: »
    ignore the CGI screenshoot . I do not even know where to start here to be honest. the fact of cgi damage bonus shown in parallel / ibs be aoe already complicates the feedback.



    the point is the damage of the battle fury + wms shown in the last screenshot.

    I think your point is lost in translation. Your critical severity is working as intended is my only point.
    MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    cgi
    cgi_zps66bd8e17.jpg
    bf
    battlefury_zps426e0211.jpg

    Later I post a screenshot of critical wms damage without bf bonus.

    * is a test that I "need" to do anyway.

    ps: cgi test in preview. Damages were anarchic this day (sometimes happens, I do not know why)
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ps:i give a look now and the problem is not any power in individual look. the problem occurs when using all at the same time+ mark.

    only mark, the calculation is also correct.

    edit: no. bf is really broken.

    soon I will make some pictures and post here. Now I'll play simcity ... haha
  • almondumalmondum Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I understand what you feel but it's time to balance the Cleric and Tricksters now.

    Clerics waited too long for some rework, you had 3 modules with average/big changes. You were the kings during some modules.
    You had alot of time to have fun.

    Clerics and TR have been underdogs mostly, it's our time to be fixed.

    I'm not saying that your class should not be re-balanced, but I do insist that it should not be the priority. It is not your fault(DC's and TR's) that they tried 3 times and did not succed, but it does not mean either that now DC and TR should get less resources just to fix their failure (same applies to all the classes that had major rework at this Module).
  • letojarred1letojarred1 Member Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    almondum wrote: »
    I understand what you feel but it's time to balance the Cleric and Tricksters now.

    Clerics waited too long for some rework, you had 3 modules with average/big changes. You were the kings during some modules.
    You had alot of time to have fun.

    Clerics and TR have been underdogs mostly, it's our time to be fixed.

    I'm not saying that your class should not be re-balanced, but I do insist that it should not be the priority. It is not your fault(DC's and TR's) that they tried 3 times and did not succed, but it does not mean either that now DC and TR should get less resources just to fix their failure (same applies to all the classes that had major rework at this Module).


    Pray, someone explain to me the relevance of this comment?
    StrawberryCheesecake TR
    BlackberryCheesecake CW
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    CheeseCake House :o
  • lewel555lewel555 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    zankard wrote: »
    So what are your opinions on this? My tests showed that yet again CW are in a different league. Have not grouped with any high geared HR. Where does your GWF stand? Are you ok with your DPS output?

    As a gwf, I am not getting grouped of course except within the guild, and in those guild dungeons the CW, SW, HR and new GF always out-dps me. I am not surprised b/c my gs is only 2k or 3k superior to theirs.
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    My 19k GWF did ca. 80% of the dmg of a CW, due to PvP destro specs. Now its 50%.

    I use the mark feature from sentinel tree and purple blink dog, got 9k power, perf vorp, smith etc.. Due to my semi PvP build the dmg and surviveability is still good, but the dmg of the other classes just got much higher.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • zankardzankard Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Meh... Given that everyone else in the group isn't badly built, then every single dps character will outdps a GWF currently. I'm approaching 12k power, 19.2k gs with 5 epic companions and 3 legendary artifacts, mostly BiS items except the new belts, yet I get outdpsed by boon-less SWs, 3k lower gs CWs, HRs too. What's the motivation to get a GWF in a group now? Why take a sub-par dps char rather than taking one that can do more damage and bring utility too. Way to kill a class, really...
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    well, it's the fault of the community.

    see feedback from cw. 348703498749 posts from people saying that the class was destroyed - when in fact it was still powerful. result? class stronger than ever.

    the same happened with the gf, given the proper proportions.

    the gwf thread not passed to a half dozen of peoples, mostly trading nerfs in exchange for prone (ignoring, of course, the overall situation).


    There is no secret: the a powerful class formula is a large number of people making pressure. that is a (sad) historical fact in this game.

    The other classes will be not accommodated to gwf level. we are no more demand. comparative or for public exigency (players).

    just to note: as I said, the game was adapted according to the exaggeration, figurative, with which people used to describe the gwf.

    the game has reached a ridiculous power level so that even worth being played. already been a while since I just have fun playing with my dc. now, the "rework" come...
  • letojarred1letojarred1 Member Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    zankard wrote: »
    Meh... Given that everyone else in the group isn't badly built, then every single dps character will outdps a GWF currently. I'm approaching 12k power, 19.2k gs with 5 epic companions and 3 legendary artifacts, mostly BiS items except the new belts, yet I get outdpsed by boon-less SWs, 3k lower gs CWs, HRs too. What's the motivation to get a GWF in a group now? Why take a sub-par dps char rather than taking one that can do more damage and bring utility too. Way to kill a class, really...

    2 stacks of HR or SW can make the run 2x LONGER despite their high damage the mobs are running all over the place its just .... I'll pick GWF all day (except for cw though ;))
    StrawberryCheesecake TR
    BlackberryCheesecake CW
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    CheeseCake House :o
  • cerberobotcerberobot Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 345
    edited August 2014
    In the PvE solo content, I see each other classes (except DC and TR for stack of mobs) completly one shotting/two shotting the mobs, even the elites, just with their encounter while GWF MUST have the 20 stacks to deal 1/3 or 1/2 life life of an elite lvl 60 as a crit, good geared.

    I remember when I leveled up all the classes (except DC). My god.

    The GWF was terribly long to level up, because he has just 0 damages, and his 40% damage bonus is only granted at lvl 60. In early game, GWF is terrible and does 0 damages with his encounter, while a GF/CW/HR just one shot them. And so does apply to the end game, he is so hard outdamaged by everything except TR/DC now (and soon TR will deal more damages in single target than GWF)

    While I need to use all my encounters to kill mobs, plus my At-Will and even dailies, I see CWs using one or two encounter and one/two shotting everything, HRs too, GF in single target too....
  • oreonmilkoreonmilk Member Posts: 39
    edited August 2014
    cerberobot wrote: »
    In the PvE solo content, I see each other classes (except DC and TR for stack of mobs) completly one shotting/two shotting the mobs, even the elites, just with their encounter while GWF MUST have the 20 stacks to deal 1/3 or 1/2 life life of an elite lvl 60 as a crit, good geared.

    I remember when I leveled up all the classes (except DC). My god.

    The GWF was terribly long to level up, because he has just 0 damages, and his 40% damage bonus is only granted at lvl 60. In early game, GWF is terrible and does 0 damages with his encounter, while a GF/CW/HR just one shot them. And so does apply to the end game, he is so hard outdamaged by everything except TR/DC now (and soon TR will deal more damages in single target than GWF)

    While I need to use all my encounters to kill mobs, plus my At-Will and even dailies, I see CWs using one or two encounter and one/two shotting everything, HRs too, GF in single target too....

    ++ this. I do notice the difference in time required for daily completion with my 17k GWF. My 15k CW my 2-piece HR can finish them faster.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    well, for the cw was not unusual hit one shot in pve PARTY (past). for a specified damage ranger also always did the same (split shot + rain of arrows).

    the question the cw eg, having a perfect defensive mechanics (control) also do not have any constraint on stacks system (base dps is good, the other "stacks" are not a fast necessity). the difference is that most players are "stupid" - sorry for the hate word, i have a bad english - and knew assemble a burst build in the past (now the damage is passive ... repeating: PASSIVE skill does the job.

    ranger, as I already mentioned, reached a ridiculous damage that should be the new standard game strategy: do pve fast and safe, spend money in pvp (preferably paying for the "bug of the week".) and quit the game.

    gwf have the same level of other class in pve? no, but can do pve easily? yes. is dead for pvp? no. so...
  • thestaggythestaggy Member Posts: 1,102 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    cerberobot wrote: »
    "I saw once so he is".

    lol ?

    GWF just absolutely needs big increase of his AoE encounters (Mighty Leap, Not So Fast etc) and to remove reduced damages by hitting multi-target, otherwise he'll still be an outdamaged class.

    I'm farming CN again with the same GWF this weekend. I will post screenshots if you'd like. Gear and paingiver.
    PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
  • zankardzankard Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    zacazu wrote: »
    well, it's the fault of the community.

    see feedback from cw. 348703498749 posts from people saying that the class was destroyed - when in fact it was still powerful. result? class stronger than ever.

    the same happened with the gf, given the proper proportions.

    the gwf thread not passed to a half dozen of peoples, mostly trading nerfs in exchange for prone (ignoring, of course, the overall situation).


    There is no secret: the a powerful class formula is a large number of people making pressure. that is a (sad) historical fact in this game.

    The other classes will be not accommodated to gwf level. we are no more demand. comparative or for public exigency (players).

    just to note: as I said, the game was adapted according to the exaggeration, figurative, with which people used to describe the gwf.

    the game has reached a ridiculous power level so that even worth being played. already been a while since I just have fun playing with my dc. now, the "rework" come...

    The community will always suck like that. It's the developer's/community manager's/whoever the hell is responsible job to take that feedback in and filter it. There was one troll CW that came to the GWF the other day to say "IBS deals too much damage, it needs a nerf" then went to the CW forums and said "We are terribly nerfed" or something similar. But if you're serious, and you play your game, you can't be fooled by trolls like that. It's not the community's fault, it's definitely on the developer side. Remember that pvp patch back in mod 3? Search youtube for a nice video of 5 devs playing vs a pvp guild. In all seriousness, a random pug group would do *much better*. Shows just how much they know their game man... GWFs pay less bucks than the rest, I guess.

    edit: Also, any developer that respects himself, will have some data mining mechanism in place. Only a glance would tell you who and which class dominates everything. A year now. You don't need the forums to tell you the obvious. Yeah, I thought so..
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    some points on the cw vs gwf:

    1 - gwf only have damage and an additional resistance now . if there is something like "off tank" we are worse than we were.

    2 - cw is not the highest dps class in the game

    3 - an individual beat another not prove anything. should be a constant people saying the same. (consider this should be the basics to start any discussion). by the whay, 've seen videos of cw in the past doing 20 / 30k damage with the shard in cn. my poor soil cw was 53k.

    4 - considering the current utility of cw, the gwf need to do much more damage or at least have a specialty area of damage is not covered by cw ... which is not the case.

    ps:

    conquerer has a single burst rather than a destroyer (which is immoral, especially given the difference in utility / power / aesthetics and that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about dps vs tank).

    * to do the "same" (I should be doing at least 30% more) I need that certain powers were working. screens shots are there. are FACTS.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    zankard wrote: »
    The community will always suck like that. It's the developer's/community manager's/whoever the hell is responsible job to take that feedback in and filter it. There was one troll CW that came to the GWF the other day to say "IBS deals too much damage, it needs a nerf" then went to the CW forums and said "We are terribly nerfed" or something similar. But if you're serious, and you play your game, you can't be fooled by trolls like that. It's not the community's fault, it's definitely on the developer side. Remember that pvp patch back in mod 3? Search youtube for a nice video of 5 devs playing vs a pvp guild. In all seriousness, a random pug group would do *much better*. Shows just how much they know their game man... GWFs pay less bucks than the rest, I guess.

    edit: Also, any developer that respects himself, will have some data mining mechanism in place. Only a glance would tell you who and which class dominates everything. A year now. You don't need the forums to tell you the obvious. Yeah, I thought so..

    ah, "trolls" do not cease to demand. If you had a strong community saying that is dissatisfied with the gwf , gwf become a god again. was what happened in module 2 (bleed), and "rework" in m3 (the community had already lost power there) and here we are now, with 3 or 4 people.


    I prefer to play simcity.
  • spacejewspacejew Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Am I the only person here who thinks that 75k damage per critical Reaping Strike is actually kind of awesome? Or did everyone abandon that At-Will so long ago that they haven't bothered going back and trying out some of the oldies but goodies?

    IBS / Flourish / Restoring Strike make for pretty darn good single-target smacks when woven in with some good old fashioned Reap's. Not to mention the determination gain on charging Reaping Strike is absurd.

    Oh well. I guess I'll just continue to love the changes until people convince Cryptic that they hate them. I'm usually alone in how I play the GWF anyway, even though I usually do quite well even with Thaums in team.
    MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC
  • zankardzankard Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    spacejew wrote: »
    Am I the only person here who thinks that 75k damage per critical Reaping Strike is actually kind of awesome? Or did everyone abandon that At-Will so long ago that they haven't bothered going back and trying out some of the oldies but goodies?

    That power is too slow for that number to even say anything. Do you just look at your single hits? Reaping strike still sucks. And your typical CW will do about 10 (yes, 10) million more dps than you in a CN run. Yay!, 75k reaping strike..
    spacejew wrote: »
    IBS / Flourish / Restoring Strike make for pretty darn good single-target smacks when woven in with some good old fashioned Reap's. Not to mention the determination gain on charging Reaping Strike is absurd.

    Oh well. I guess I'll just continue to love the changes until people convince Cryptic that they hate them. I'm usually alone in how I play the GWF anyway, even though I usually do quite well even with Thaums in team.

    Well, if you enjoy the changes that made you 30% weaker (not even mentioning survivability), then I guess there lies the problem. Does everyone enjoy being sub-par and handicapped now?
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    by the time you charge that #%# your party will wipe the mobs and go forward
    Paladin Master Race
  • cerberobotcerberobot Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 345
    edited August 2014
    spacejew wrote: »
    Am I the only person here who thinks that 75k damage per critical Reaping Strike is actually kind of awesome? Or did everyone abandon that At-Will so long ago that they haven't bothered going back and trying out some of the oldies but goodies?

    You're the only, long to cast, it slows you, you can be interrupted, not enough damages.
    And as you said, you need critical. I prefer casting WMS 4-5 times, which has also better damages.
  • zankardzankard Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    WMS and WS are both superior to RS. It's too slow and by the time it charges the group of mobs is either dead or moved just right out of range (CWs...).

    I'm not referring to pugs when I make comparisons, I'm talking about properly built CWs or SWs or HRs and they will outdps you with having less gear score or having just norm.vorp or 3k less power etc the list goes on and will do so by a really good amount. This is imbalanced and should be fixed asap.
  • l33thaxxor1l33thaxxor1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 46
    edited August 2014
    The short animation on wicked strike will stack up 200k in the same time that 75k reaping strike goes off.........
  • imperator956imperator956 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    i have two questions:
    1) some of you have done the test to see if better IV or sword master
    2) can you share a good build
    thanks in andvance
  • spacejewspacejew Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    The short animation on wicked strike will stack up 200k in the same time that 75k reaping strike goes off.........

    Wait...so people are throwing Reaping Strike when they aren't Unstoppable?

    That's an odd decision, but then again I'm using a perma-unstoppable build so maybe that colors my judgement.

    I'll shut up about it though, it's pretty clear I'm in the uber-minority on that point and I have been since open beta. =(
    MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC
  • zankardzankard Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    spacejew wrote: »
    Wait...so people are throwing Reaping Strike when they aren't Unstoppable?

    That's an odd decision, but then again I'm using a perma-unstoppable build so maybe that colors my judgement.

    I'll shut up about it though, it's pretty clear I'm in the uber-minority on that point and I have been since open beta. =(

    Nonsense. He's not talking about using it when he's not Unstoppable. It's plainly the worse at-will, and the numbers are there in your log to prove it. But the point here isn't the GWF build, but rather that he can't compare with the rest of the classes when it comes to dps.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    well, not answered why I was hoping to do a new test with this power. obviously I used my own powers (meh experience).

    enumerating problems.

    1 - m3 nerf:

    reapingstrike_zpse71d12a9.jpg
    reapingstrike1_zpsbcc631e8.jpg

    For the record, this time I had power of 7200. now i have 9600 or 9800 power and still not regained the old base damage. :)

    before you passed a certain difficulty in exchange for three good bursts in arc.

    Now the difficulty is to cause moderate damage in an arc. remember rp+bleed? 50k ALONE over 5 sec.

    2:

    reaping strike requires a lot of your resistance. If you stop the charge, you lose focused destroyer (38% damage bonus). the unstoppable suffered a nerf and had the bonus transferred to sprint.

    no need to comment on how the mechanics of this power is contradictory now.

    3 - the pattern of bursts of classes that preserve the bursts is much higher now. the ibs is now outdated (after a ninja nerfs I've noticed) imagines the reaping strike. 75k is not your damage. 75k is THE PARTY damage.

    in the same situation, you probably hit punishing charge by 25k. are three charges without cap. that is, the same total damage without CAP. sounds good in theory, but is definitely not a great dps shaolin super power that is expected.
  • spacejewspacejew Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    zacazu wrote: »

    reaping strike requires a lot of your resistance. If you stop the charge, you lose focused destroyer (38% damage bonus). the unstoppable suffered a nerf and had the bonus transferred to sprint.

    no need to comment on how the mechanics of this power is contradictory now.

    I still like it personally, and I just like to put it out there every so often because it's a useful at-will even if most people seem to prefer single-target and AoE speed attacks that do lower base damage but are better at killing trash mobs. You can build like a CW if you want to, it's effective. I prefer big slow hits, and that is exactly what I get with my particular setup.

    With skillful timing you might be surprised with what you can do with encounter weaving, but I don't really care if you actually try it or learn it. GWF is my 3rd string class so I am far from an expert. I'm sure it's not 'optimal' for every fight. I switch it out for Sure Strike all the time for bosses.

    That being said, I have absolutely no idea why you think that Reaping Strike doesn't count towards my paingiver or why buffs would fall off while using it. Neither of those two things are even remotely true, but then again I have practice using Reaping Strike since open beta. I've tried everything, this is just what I like. If I cared about 'optimal' I would be a IV now wouldn't I?
    MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC
  • l33thaxxor1l33thaxxor1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 46
    edited August 2014
    spacejew wrote: »
    I still like it personally, and I just like to put it out there every so often because it's a useful at-will even if most people seem to prefer single-target and AoE speed attacks that do lower base damage but are better at killing trash mobs. You can build like a CW if you want to, it's effective. I prefer big slow hits, and that is exactly what I get with my particular setup.

    With skillful timing you might be surprised with what you can do with encounter weaving, but I don't really care if you actually try it or learn it. GWF is my 3rd string class so I am far from an expert. I'm sure it's not 'optimal' for every fight. I switch it out for Sure Strike all the time for bosses.

    That being said, I have absolutely no idea why you think that Reaping Strike doesn't count towards my paingiver or why buffs would fall off while using it. Neither of those two things are even remotely true, but then again I have practice using Reaping Strike since open beta. I've tried everything, this is just what I like. If I cared about 'optimal' I would be a IV now wouldn't I?

    Yes IV is still the god of DPS, I'm still a couple mill ahead of my CW's in dungeons on paingiver after I get to Fulmi or V and belt out the single target DPS. But I had to drop battle awareness power boost and part of deep gash to get into powerful challenge to make that DPS back up and get back a modicum of burst damage back for PvP. Still couldn't recoup all my Mod 3 DPS.

    Yes reaping Strike and SM both have huge potential and probably should be the DPS paragon but until they shorten all the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> animations tied to SM it will never out DPS IV, Sure strike and Wicked strike fire so much faster with enough damage that they burn through stuff.

    Regardless if you are unstoppable or not SS and WS still go off faster doing far more damage in the same time it takes RS to follow through with one attack. Make RS's animation faster with the same damage and now we would be talking
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