Well, I think we said enough here. The goal of this post was mainly to get some feedback from GWFs, but by now everyone knows what the situation is. Don't hold hopes, I did for months, they won't change a thing.
Yes, as I already said, mmo is a business that deserves to be sabotaged.
total lack of transparency, answers only innocuous or predatory feedbacks. the subject showed a discrepancy of 13% damage in gwf and received a direct response. I showed a lot of discrepancy never heard a "thank you" .
the only time I went was answered by the person who up the patches that after my just complaint about a nerf to flourish, confronted me how the change would affect the gwf (ie in "m1" ... the patch announced "x" but the change real was a nerf in range of this encounter).
ah, I forgot ... I commented about changing the gwf animation . the responsible asked about what I was talking about. I recorded a video to show the difference. something changed?
1 x 16k CW
1 x 16k GF (Me, Tactician, running Enforced Threat, Into the Fray and Lunging Strike. Build designed to build party AP and buff party DPS. All of us seemingly had dailies ready for every single mob, build works a treat.)
1 x 16k DC (High Prophet, the usual story)
1 x 15k CW
1 x 14.8k GWF (Swordmaster Destroyer, running full DPS rotation as GF and DC were taking care of buffs)
CN cleared in 35 minutes, including Shadowfell and no ''jumping''. Draco dead within 5 minutes. Would've been faster if either myself or the DC were running a Terror as both of us had Plaguefires. No drops and the DC had his Soulforged popped once because he got caught by the hands in last fight. No aggro issues for the party at any point.
Paingiver:
1 - CW - 26 million
2 - CW - 25 million
3 - GWF - 24.something million
4 - GF - 7 million
5 - DC - 6.5 million
Make of that what you will.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
1 x 16k CW
1 x 16k GF (Me, Tactician, running Enforced Threat, Into the Fray and Lunging Strike. Build designed to build party AP and buff party DPS. All of us seemingly had dailies ready for every single mob, build works a treat.)
1 x 16k DC (High Prophet, the usual story)
1 x 15k CW
1 x 14.8k GWF (Swordmaster Destroyer, running full DPS rotation as GF and DC were taking care of buffs)
CN cleared in 35 minutes, including Shadowfell and no ''jumping''. Draco dead within 5 minutes. Would've been faster if either myself or the DC were running a Terror as both of us had Plaguefires. No drops and the DC had his Soulforged popped once because he got caught by the hands in last fight. No aggro issues for the party at any point.
Paingiver:
1 - CW - 26 million
2 - CW - 25 million
3 - GWF - 24.something million
4 - GF - 7 million
5 - DC - 6.5 million
Make of that what you will.
I just show that the critical severity of gwf is not working ... and I have to read it.
anyway, what is under discussion here are not individual performances. I do not know what is being beaten by a cw since m2 (ranger i know... hahah). does not change the fact that the class has more potential.
I just show that the critical severity gwf is not working ... and I have to read it.
You have your opinion and experiences, I have mine. We are not going to change each others point of view. In my eyes a good GWF can still do some serious damage because I saw it in the one dungeon that really tests players.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
You have your opinion and experiences, I have mine. We are not going to change each others point of view. In my eyes a good GWF can still do some serious damage because I saw it in the one dungeon that really tests players.
"I saw once so he is".
lol ?
GWF just absolutely needs big increase of his AoE encounters (Mighty Leap, Not So Fast etc) and to remove reduced damages by hitting multi-target, otherwise he'll still be an outdamaged class.
You have your opinion and experiences, I have mine. We are not going to change each others point of view. In my eyes a good GWF can still do some serious damage because I saw it in the one dungeon that really tests players.
we can stay until tomorrow discussing individual experiences. or we can go to the main points.
Point 1: dps mechanics.
'm a "dps" and my critic is not being calculated correctly. it is not matter of opinion. or am I right or am I wrong. there is no gray area here
2; differential treatment:
* gwf received a series of nerfs to Be "2 in 1". cw dont get this treatment, although this has been justified. changes to the gf not complied with this perspective because it is now a better leader than dc.
gray here? for sure! but nothing changes the fact that: I chose to be dps and I'm not fully on my job. why? because my critical damage is not being respected. individual "A" beat individual "B" does not change that.
what actually is here subjective and depends on your experience is try understand the motivation of the dev.
obviously I'm more disgusted with the dev than with the bug. but the bug exists (or does not exist and I am wrong to believe it)
what gets boring to discuss here (is speculative, but...good sense help) is say "gwf, like dps, is fine because i see one close to beat a 'controller' in dps ".
we can stay until tomorrow discussing individual experiences. or we can go to the main points.
Point 1: dps mechanics.
'm a "dps" and my critic is not being calculated correctly. it is not matter of opinion. or am I right or am I wrong. there is no gray area here
2; differential treatment:
* gwf received a series of nerfs to Be "2 in 1". cw dont get this treatment, although this has been justified. changes to the gf not complied with this perspective because it is now a better leader than dc.
gray here? for sure! but nothing changes the fact that: I chose to be dps and I'm not fully on my job. why? because my critical damage is not being respected. individual "A" beat individual "B" does not change that.
what actually is here subjective and depends on your experience is the motivation of the dev behind this situation.
obviously I'm more disgusted with the dev than with the bug. but the bug exists (or does not exist and I am wrong to believe it)
Have you got evidences with Battle Fury ? I can talk to a moderator and he can maybe tell it to the devs (like I probably did with astrals resonators), but w/o evidence ... give me it if you have.
i really dont know what say. i have 150% of severity and... or the bf value is added or this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ignore my Pvorpal. I had the same question with the destroyer porpose .
you can see the same in cgi scan. well, good luck. time to kill a lion.
I'm running a 10k Power Dragonborn Swordmaster build and I'm quite happy with the output.
Considering that BiS should get you to 13k power, I don't think the PVE GWF is in a bad shape. Overall the class seems to be quite balanced now, it's other classes that might make it look weak in certain situations.
0
lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited August 2014
Indeed, GWF's dps seems to be good so far, you have to work on it and that's how it should be, other classes received some stupid buffs and all you have to do is a couple of attacks in order to win Paingiver with ease. Once the other classes receive some fixes, that will make the GWF look a lot better.
Indeed, GWF's dps seems to be good so far, you have to work on it and that's how it should be, other classes received some stupid buffs and all you have to do is a couple of attacks in order to win Paingiver with ease. Once the other classes receive some fixes, that will make the GWF look a lot better.
Devs will never nerf PvE DPS, and when TR will be buffed, GWF will be once again less needed because his single-target will deal less than TR.
0
lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
Devs will never nerf PvE DPS, and when TR will be buffed, GWF will be once again less needed because his single-target will deal less than TR.
TR have bad AoE skills and if he only brings single target dmg to a dungeon run he won't be useful at all while the GWF can deal very high AoE dmg plus heavy single target dps, also his mark is helping a lot. When I'm at Draco he's down in less than 2 minutes, when we are doing a dungeon run the boss fights aren't a problem but the trash clearing so let's say TR becomes good and Draco is down in 1 min or 1 min30s but the overall run takes longer... not really useful when most players are trying to do speed runs.
Yep, even if the TR would be kings of single target DPS again, the dungeon in which it will be useful still has to be introduced. The class really suffers from the overall outgearing of content the most, because it's not how fast you kill the boss, it's how fast you clear the path.
Maybe there are still some runners that know more than I do, but otherwise the new LoL + buffs *could* revive them for this very dungeon. Otherwise GWF > TR all day, any day.
OT: What might help is some sort of legendary version of dungeons that can be run by, I don't know, 10 people? Maybe groups would add a TR or two in that case to speed up the boss fight. The interesting, and more general question, anyway is: There are 7 classes and groups of 5. How is that supposed to work out? Given that every class has its strength and weaknesses, there will always be a perfect composition that will exclude at least two classes.
again, you are discussing subjective aspects. If you ask for "m1zacazu" how he feels hit someone with a 44k ibs non critical in certain build (solo) he will say is 2 times my current critical! the gwf is fabulous.
the point is: the gwf received a series of nerfs, I believe, from a projection on what I should be doing 110k critical . iv more. if I had "13k power" I would be doing this damage naturally? Yup. but I should be doing even more now (and 13k... god)
* but my critic does not work so the projection "choose dps" is wrong. this is not opinion. or am I right or am I wrong.
you can get in nebulous zone and say "aoe cw also being miscalculated the damage and thus the class should be higher." yes, this need to be fixed. and this dont change the fact that I chose to dps and I'm not taking the entire package.
crit probably close to 4k since you get a ton of it from AoW+fomorian, ~rank 9 + legendary artifacts + 3x offensive slot stone, ancient rings/neck, rare power belt, there are pets that give 300 power
dont forget u get "free"power from feats
Paladin Master Race
0
lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited August 2014
My forum name is my ingame @handle, in case you want to talk about items, stats, tests, etc...
According to my maths I should have at least 13.5k Power as soon as I get the new weapon but the most interesting thing will be the increasement in the weapon damage which is a lot.
again, you are discussing subjective aspects. If you ask for "m1zacazu" how he feels hit someone with a 44k ibs non critical in certain build (solo) he will say is 2 times my current critical! the gwf is fabulous.
the point is: the gwf received a series of nerfs, I believe, from a projection on what I should be doing 110k critical . iv more. if I had "13k power" I would be doing this damage naturally? Yup. but I should be doing even more now (and 13k... god)
* but my critic does not work so the projection "choose dps" is wrong. this is not opinion. or am I right or am I wrong.
you can get in nebulous zone and say "aoe cw also being miscalculated the damage and thus the class should be higher." yes, this need to be fixed. and this dont change the fact that I chose to dps and I'm not taking the entire package.
I'm not sure what situations your talking about 110k IBS? But I hit Valindra routinely for 130k-160k when everything is procing and she has been fully debuffed. I've had a coupe IBS's land for 200K+ highest being 263k. The past couple times I've run VT since respecing into powerful challenge I've had hits for 199K and 200K.
Yes, IBS in the range of 100k is not uncommon, but have yet to hit >150k tbh (don't have Exe Style feated in example). But that's first world problems, bottom line is: The PVE DPS damage is just fine.
I'm not sure what you're saying about crit severity not working correctly Zacazu. If you have 150% crit damage your numbers appear to be exactly correct from the screen shot you provided. Your attacks are indeed doing 150% more damage on a crit.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Maybe I simply don't understand how a critical attack works but if your attack does 3696 then it multiplies it by 1.5. This gives you the exact value your attacks are doing, so I imagine that is working as intended. Especially because this is exactly how it works for all of my characters which means it isn't something unique or different regarding the GWF.
Why would you expect a critical to add your base damage twice is what I wonder.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
"Critical Severity
The bonus damage dealt from Critical Strikes is determined by Critical Severity. The normal Critical Severity is 75%, meaning that you deal 75% extra damage with an ability if it Critically Strikes. Example: You use a Power against an enemy. It normally deals 100 damage. If you Critically Strike the same foe with the same Power, you will deal 175 damage, assuming that you have normal Critical Severity." http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Critical_Strike
iam lost...
i understante this: like a said, bf up my wms damage in 800k. my real wms damage here is +/-2600.
150% over 2600=3900. 3900+2600=6500;
6500+extra 800k bf bonus=7300. my damage in screenshot.
is the same problem of destroyer porpose in m3 preview.
"Critical Severity
The bonus damage dealt from Critical Strikes is determined by Critical Severity. The normal Critical Severity is 75%, meaning that you deal 75% extra damage with an ability if it Critically Strikes. Example: You use a Power against an enemy. It normally deals 100 damage. If you Critically Strike the same foe with the same Power, you will deal 175 damage, assuming that you have normal Critical Severity." http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Critical_Strike
iam lost...
I wasn't paying enough attention. Sorry.
As far as I know the number within parenthesis is the damage inflicted before ArP and after ArP and doesn't show pre-critical strike damage. You're doing a lot of debuffs with WMS etc. that's being taken into account that just so happens to line up in a very general way with your Critical Severity bonus. At least I'm pretty sure that is what's going on with that screen shot.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Comments
Yes, as I already said, mmo is a business that deserves to be sabotaged.
total lack of transparency, answers only innocuous or predatory feedbacks. the subject showed a discrepancy of 13% damage in gwf and received a direct response. I showed a lot of discrepancy never heard a "thank you" .
the only time I went was answered by the person who up the patches that after my just complaint about a nerf to flourish, confronted me how the change would affect the gwf (ie in "m1" ... the patch announced "x" but the change real was a nerf in range of this encounter).
ah, I forgot ... I commented about changing the gwf animation . the responsible asked about what I was talking about. I recorded a video to show the difference. something changed?
1 x 16k CW
1 x 16k GF (Me, Tactician, running Enforced Threat, Into the Fray and Lunging Strike. Build designed to build party AP and buff party DPS. All of us seemingly had dailies ready for every single mob, build works a treat.)
1 x 16k DC (High Prophet, the usual story)
1 x 15k CW
1 x 14.8k GWF (Swordmaster Destroyer, running full DPS rotation as GF and DC were taking care of buffs)
CN cleared in 35 minutes, including Shadowfell and no ''jumping''. Draco dead within 5 minutes. Would've been faster if either myself or the DC were running a Terror as both of us had Plaguefires. No drops and the DC had his Soulforged popped once because he got caught by the hands in last fight. No aggro issues for the party at any point.
Paingiver:
1 - CW - 26 million
2 - CW - 25 million
3 - GWF - 24.something million
4 - GF - 7 million
5 - DC - 6.5 million
Make of that what you will.
It means everything lol.
I just show that the critical severity of gwf is not working ... and I have to read it.
anyway, what is under discussion here are not individual performances. I do not know what is being beaten by a cw since m2 (ranger i know... hahah). does not change the fact that the class has more potential.
You have your opinion and experiences, I have mine. We are not going to change each others point of view. In my eyes a good GWF can still do some serious damage because I saw it in the one dungeon that really tests players.
"I saw once so he is".
lol ?
GWF just absolutely needs big increase of his AoE encounters (Mighty Leap, Not So Fast etc) and to remove reduced damages by hitting multi-target, otherwise he'll still be an outdamaged class.
we can stay until tomorrow discussing individual experiences. or we can go to the main points.
Point 1: dps mechanics.
'm a "dps" and my critic is not being calculated correctly. it is not matter of opinion. or am I right or am I wrong. there is no gray area here
2; differential treatment:
* gwf received a series of nerfs to Be "2 in 1". cw dont get this treatment, although this has been justified. changes to the gf not complied with this perspective because it is now a better leader than dc.
gray here? for sure! but nothing changes the fact that: I chose to be dps and I'm not fully on my job. why? because my critical damage is not being respected. individual "A" beat individual "B" does not change that.
what actually is here subjective and depends on your experience is try understand the motivation of the dev.
obviously I'm more disgusted with the dev than with the bug. but the bug exists (or does not exist and I am wrong to believe it)
what gets boring to discuss here (is speculative, but...good sense help) is say "gwf, like dps, is fine because i see one close to beat a 'controller' in dps ".
ps: I suffer a lot to express myself in English ... hahah
French ?
Explain please, this screen doesn't describe enough
i really dont know what say. i have 150% of severity and... or the bf value is added or this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ignore my Pvorpal. I had the same question with the destroyer porpose .
you can see the same in cgi scan. well, good luck. time to kill a lion.
Considering that BiS should get you to 13k power, I don't think the PVE GWF is in a bad shape. Overall the class seems to be quite balanced now, it's other classes that might make it look weak in certain situations.
Devs will never nerf PvE DPS, and when TR will be buffed, GWF will be once again less needed because his single-target will deal less than TR.
TR have bad AoE skills and if he only brings single target dmg to a dungeon run he won't be useful at all while the GWF can deal very high AoE dmg plus heavy single target dps, also his mark is helping a lot. When I'm at Draco he's down in less than 2 minutes, when we are doing a dungeon run the boss fights aren't a problem but the trash clearing so let's say TR becomes good and Draco is down in 1 min or 1 min30s but the overall run takes longer... not really useful when most players are trying to do speed runs.
Maybe there are still some runners that know more than I do, but otherwise the new LoL + buffs *could* revive them for this very dungeon. Otherwise GWF > TR all day, any day.
OT: What might help is some sort of legendary version of dungeons that can be run by, I don't know, 10 people? Maybe groups would add a TR or two in that case to speed up the boss fight. The interesting, and more general question, anyway is: There are 7 classes and groups of 5. How is that supposed to work out? Given that every class has its strength and weaknesses, there will always be a perfect composition that will exclude at least two classes.
the point is: the gwf received a series of nerfs, I believe, from a projection on what I should be doing 110k critical . iv more. if I had "13k power" I would be doing this damage naturally? Yup. but I should be doing even more now (and 13k... god)
* but my critic does not work so the projection "choose dps" is wrong. this is not opinion. or am I right or am I wrong.
you can get in nebulous zone and say "aoe cw also being miscalculated the damage and thus the class should be higher." yes, this need to be fixed. and this dont change the fact that I chose to dps and I'm not taking the entire package.
Any chance to know the items you are using/wearing guys ?
I saw her/him shes/hes a midget before but now a dragon
30 str *_* 13k power I bet IBS hits like a whale.
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
what about Critical etc ...
dont forget u get "free"power from feats
According to my maths I should have at least 13.5k Power as soon as I get the new weapon but the most interesting thing will be the increasement in the weapon damage which is a lot.
I'm not sure what situations your talking about 110k IBS? But I hit Valindra routinely for 130k-160k when everything is procing and she has been fully debuffed. I've had a coupe IBS's land for 200K+ highest being 263k. The past couple times I've run VT since respecing into powerful challenge I've had hits for 199K and 200K.
Yes, IBS in the range of 100k is not uncommon, but have yet to hit >150k tbh (don't have Exe Style feated in example). But that's first world problems, bottom line is: The PVE DPS damage is just fine.
solo my max is 84k depending on build (92k iv)
for me 150% of 3696=5544
5544+3696=9240. is not that?:eek:
Maybe I simply don't understand how a critical attack works but if your attack does 3696 then it multiplies it by 1.5. This gives you the exact value your attacks are doing, so I imagine that is working as intended. Especially because this is exactly how it works for all of my characters which means it isn't something unique or different regarding the GWF.
Why would you expect a critical to add your base damage twice is what I wonder.
The bonus damage dealt from Critical Strikes is determined by Critical Severity. The normal Critical Severity is 75%, meaning that you deal 75% extra damage with an ability if it Critically Strikes. Example: You use a Power against an enemy. It normally deals 100 damage. If you Critically Strike the same foe with the same Power, you will deal 175 damage, assuming that you have normal Critical Severity."
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Critical_Strike
iam lost...
i understante this: like a said, bf up my wms damage in 800k. my real wms damage here is +/-2600.
150% over 2600=3900. 3900+2600=6500;
6500+extra 800k bf bonus=7300. my damage in screenshot.
is the same problem of destroyer porpose in m3 preview.
I wasn't paying enough attention. Sorry.
As far as I know the number within parenthesis is the damage inflicted before ArP and after ArP and doesn't show pre-critical strike damage. You're doing a lot of debuffs with WMS etc. that's being taken into account that just so happens to line up in a very general way with your Critical Severity bonus. At least I'm pretty sure that is what's going on with that screen shot.