But what happens when your stalth bar is empty and you're still in combat? would there a way to replenish it without exiting combat? I'm thinking on both PVE bosses, that last quite a while, and after 6 secs all your stealth bonus damage would be gone for the rest of the fight, and also in pvp. How could you be really in and out of stealth in combat if you just have 1 bar? (even if you can use it in several pieces)
Aryoux dude.. please stay away from the tr discussion that is going to happen in few months... pls
Yeah and they are probably already working on it right now.... So if there is any hope for direction it would be now to discuss it and make it public for the DEVs to MAYBE see....
I didnt bring it up, I just responded some ideas I have had. I used to TR and LOVED it! But the entire "perma" thing was just so dumb I didnt go down that path and quit my TR... Id love to play again (played a Rogue in WoW for over 4 years) but the perma <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is just so lame. Almost like the "perma sprint "gwf today.... Its a cheese mechanic and makes it not fun to play the class.
Yeah and they are probably already working on it right now.... So if there is any hope for direction it would be now to discuss it and make it public for the DEVs to MAYBE see....
I didnt bring it up, I just responded some ideas I have had. I used to TR and LOVED it! But the entire "perma" thing was just so dumb I didnt go down that path and quit my TR... Id love to play again (played a Rogue in WoW for over 4 years) but the perma <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is just so lame. Almost like the "perma sprint "gwf today.... Its a cheese mechanic and makes it not fun to play the class.
I cant say perma is good but we dont have great feats passive stats to survive in other ways. So or they rework the enitre class or they work like dersidius suggested which is what i wrote plenty of time in the tr section of the forum. There are some more points i would like to copy past here but now i m from my phone so i cant
But what happens when your stalth bar is empty and you're still in combat? would there a way to replenish it without exiting combat? I'm thinking on both PVE bosses, that last quite a while, and after 6 secs all your stealth bonus damage would be gone for the rest of the fight, and also in pvp. How could you be really in and out of stealth in combat if you just have 1 bar? (even if you can use it in several pieces)
Thats the whole point. If damage is boosted up, the entire idea or theory of a TR is going in and out of stealth, so you would pick and choose.
The idea is this:
You stealth around without meter draining because your outside combat. Once you attack someone, via encounter your pulled out, or at will and you stay in stealth, but encounter and your pulled out - with virtually a full stealth bar. YOu re-stealth but are in combat. move a few seconds to setup another combo and encounter - pop out.
Then you can pop things like ITC or by this time your stealth is fairly low, you rely on roll/dodge and other abilities to attack, maybe pop back in stealth for another 2 seconds then pop back out with a drained bar. So youve been in stealth 3 times without filling your meter. Now your meter is gone and you get the deflect boost for adding tankiness outside combat.
TR encounters would need some damage boosts, but its just a start. Also, again, things like Shadow Strike and BaS could grant SOME refill. Maybe each regens like half your stealth bar over 5 seconds or something.
Then you also have Lurkers which can be used for stealth too. Overall, boosted damage outside stealth, boosted defense outside stealth and boosted ability to pop in and out of stealth AND retain stealth outside of combat indefinitely!
If you want a "perma" build you can do that with the Sabotour tree and gain stealth refill on each attack however at the loss of damage.
It obviously needs some additional works, but this is how stealth should work IMO. Not how it is today
Thats the whole point. If damage is boosted up, the entire idea or theory of a TR is going in and out of stealth, so you would pick and choose.
The idea is this:
You stealth around without meter draining because your outside combat. Once you attack someone, via encounter your pulled out, or at will and you stay in stealth, but encounter and your pulled out - with virtually a full stealth bar. YOu re-stealth but are in combat. move a few seconds to setup another combo and encounter - pop out.
Then you can pop things like ITC or by this time your stealth is fairly low, you rely on roll/dodge and other abilities to attack, maybe pop back in stealth for another 2 seconds then pop back out with a drained bar. So youve been in stealth 3 times without filling your meter. Now your meter is gone and you get the deflect boost for adding tankiness outside combat.
TR encounters would need some damage boosts, but its just a start. Also, again, things like Shadow Strike and BaS could grant SOME refill. Maybe each regens like half your stealth bar over 5 seconds or something.
Then you also have Lurkers which can be used for stealth too. Overall, boosted damage outside stealth, boosted defense outside stealth and boosted ability to pop in and out of stealth AND retain stealth outside of combat indefinitely!
If you want a "perma" build you can do that with the Sabotour tree and gain stealth refill on each attack however at the loss of damage.
It obviously needs some additional works, but this is how stealth should work IMO. Not how it is today
Your last two posts have all contained viable ideas however your messing something important .
For a class that's going in and out of stealth there needs to be some affective means of stunning and protection so that after itc is gone classes with control won't eat tr alive because tr can control back
Its a shame whisper knife is unviable due to the lack of itc, I really love the ideology of teleporting and defying all over the place with some immunity
I think globally for all classes, there should be an automatic 4 second CC immunity given anytime you come out of any form of CC. I've seen this in other games and it makes a lot of sense.
I think globally for all classes, there should be an automatic 4 second CC immunity given anytime you come out of any form of CC. I've seen this in other games and it makes a lot of sense.[/Q
I disagree completely , people will just have to use less skill and blow all their abilities at once instead of trying to practice with their team mates to sync cc'd and damage to gain a higher award
Also that essentially takes out more benefit of being 1v2
These things are learn-to-play issues, not balance arguments. You're postulating a situation where you have a team that plays worse than your opponents do. Which is just more of what I was responding to, not a counter-point. Everyone hates the pug lottery where lots of CW and "archer" HR pugs will sit as far away from being able to win as possible, but that's an argument about player ability and not class balance.
No ,it's because as of right now CW can prema freeze you and don't need to have good gear.Seen a CW with a 12 gs,no wpn or arm enchantment,with rank 5s kill a GF who had way better gear.All he did was Ray of Frost till he was frozen and started CC chain.That easy and the GF wasn't a bad player,just CW are broken right now.
GWFs do not enjoy the same degree of ability to determine when to use Unstoppable and not. They need to take damage to build it up.
1: have you not seen how tanky GWF can be?A little dmg not going to hurt them.2: your just about always going to be taking dmg so thats not that big of a deal to build.3 when they pop Unstoppable they heal.
You have obviously never played a CW. The casting times on CW spells are much longer than those for GF melee attacks. And a good GF can turn around faster than a CW cc spell can finish. A CW can only do what you describe if the GF screwed up and wasted his own cc encounters while the CW didn't. So what you're describing is a CW outplaying a GF, not a balanced matchup between equally skilled opponents.
I do play/did a CW.Stop playing him when mod 4 hit and they became broken.I'm think you don't know the class your playing.I don't know how many times I've seen a GF use Lunging Strike and get caught by Entangling Force before it hits.So yea slower casting time and it's range vs melee so if the CW is 80' away slower casting time doesn't matter.Now for the turn around faster part.Entangling Force 10.1s ,Ray of Frost 0s,Icy Terrain 18s,Ray of Enfeeblement 18s,Icy Rays 14.6s.Lunging Strike 8s,Bull Charge 14s,Frontline Surge 18s.Now add the PVP armor for Spell Mastery Recharge Speed and that int is a prime stat which most CW add to.But GF do not normal add int.That would make it just about even for Recharge Speed.Now add that it's melee vs range and CW have it.
A unskilled CW can kill a higher geared GF easier then A more skilled GF can a better geared CW.
That's not to say there aren't issues with CWs vs GFs, but those are related to excessive damage and/or control duration with certain specs, not with CWs actually having a tool to use against turtly GFs.
No tool? ok so CW don't have 2 skill to get past block.
Lunging Strike has a longer range than Threatening Rush, and the lunge is 65' while the range is 20'. Second, Ray of Frost needs to build up over time. If you're being frozen very quickly, you're dealing with an oppressor CW who will be dealing less damage.
Sorry did type the wrong range on Lunging Strike it is 65' and Threatening Rush is 28'.But less dmg doesn't mean any thing if the target is frozen in 1-2 sec.Then CC to death the last 6-8 sec.But the non-oppressor take what 3-4 sec to freeze someone now?
It *can* get much easier than that, because the animations are pretty indistinct compared to the teleport and shift animations, and there's also the latency factor to consider.
If your having prob not telling when a GF isn't blocking then theres no help for you.It is easy to see.I'll guess and say you can't tell when a GWF is Unstoppable or not ...big bigger.Shield up in front, shield not up in front.
As of right now CW can kill better skill/geared player because of the fast freezing.In mod 3 a good CW could kill someone of = gear/skill.Now a unskilled CW can just kill people easy with out needing to work at it.It's just the hole GWF thing, smash keyboard to get kill.this time it's hold 1 button then hit 4 others to win.I'd love to see CW be a top PVP class,there fun to play.Just not one that is over powered and needs no skill to play.
Your last two posts have all contained viable ideas however your messing something important .
For a class that's going in and out of stealth there needs to be some affective means of stunning and protection so that after itc is gone classes with control won't eat tr alive because tr can control back
Its a shame whisper knife is unviable due to the lack of itc, I really love the ideology of teleporting and defying all over the place with some immunity
Yeah I think if DPS was boosted and "tankiness" was boosted you dont necessarily need as much control.
Thinks like Smoke Bomb could have an added DoT to them.
Shadow Strike - the daze should be added to the base version. Stealth bonus is just adding stealth regen (say 50% over 5 seconds)
Lashing Blade - Stealth bonus = 50% reduced CD (again with the new control over when to be in and out of stealth - good improvement IMO)
Impact Shot could be beefed up some as well. Maybe 2 charges of the old versions damage.
Bait and Switch: Should add some "AI" to this dummy IMO and make it walk around, would be cool if it "mimiced" your character somehow but in a different location. Power would also refill stealth 50% of your bar over 5 seconds
Things LIKE this to give the TR abilities to pop in and out of stealth. Damage needs to be beefed up somehow, I think things LIKE LB stealth reducing CD by 50% is fair. Might bring LB builds back!
Overall TRs should be THE stealth striker. They should be able to sneak around behind enemy lines, and drop a caster not paying attention really fast, however CURRENTLY their ability to do this AND "perma" stealth causes the balance issues.
If they made "perma" much more a capstone build thing, and beefed up damage and tankiness for other specs, that would be balance. The entire roll of the TR changes at this point.
I would prefer if they switch the daze to a stun. Daze isn't very useful if someone can just run away while dazed. especially since we have to wind up our DF
Since we KNOW a total re-work is coming, since thats how they handled GFs/GWFs/HRs/CWs to a major extent.... I think the TR could have a few things done to it, to enable them to shine.
Id like a few major change to stealth however that I think would benefit the class:
1) Stealth bar drains while in stealth. When removed from stealth, you RETAIN any "stealth" meter you had left and can re-activate stealth at any time to go BACK into stealth. Id also like to see hitting "tab" again would pop you out of stealth with your remaining bar.
-Much like GF's "block" if he leaves early, the block meter doesnt deplete (dont get started on the contrast here - for illustration only) but it stays the same and even recharges. TR would still only charge outside combat, but the remaining "stealth" could still be used. So its not all or nothing.
3) Stealth is on a PURE time basis and is not hindered based on damage. So dealing damage to a stleath TR would NOT drain stealth faster.
Allowing stealth to be used much more skillfully and longer allows the TR to truly hide in the shadows AND dip in and out of stealth at will. Drop in, lashing blade and it pops you out, however you can recast stealth with your remaining bar, so the TR would only be outside stealth for the animation of the attack and can pop back in for the remainder of stealth bar.
With these changes, I personally think encounters that refill stealth need to be nerfed,reduced or removed. I would possibly suggest things like BaS and Shadow Strike to not "insta" fill the stealth bar but give a regen or recharge to the stealth meter. So it does allow for a smaller limited "recharge".
-For this range I would suggest about HALF a node distance. So a player standing in the middle of a node should have a HIGH chance to see the TR.
One idea I had was to give a feat that increased the TRs DEFLECT based upon the amount of stealth meter missing. So a TR who drained their entire meter, could have up to say 25% more deflect. With their deflect severity at 75%, if a TR can get a large amount of deflect this will enable them to be "tanky" enough outside stealth.
I saw ayroux catch some flak from these suggestions, but I have to say they look spot on to me. I run a Perma TR, have since M2, it's my main. I'll add I mostly disagree with his perspective on GWF, i'm loving sprinting up to someone and getting in their face. I saw two things I completely disagree with. #1 "TR would still only charge outside combat, but the remaining "stealth" could still be used". This would only promote a TR running in, getting in some hits, and running away. Stealth should ALWAYS replenish when not active. #2 Increasing stealth detection range. A lot of TR abilities are point blank, remove perma stealth and this becomes a huge handicap.
Now, I know many TRs might be rolling their eyes at ayroux and now me, but hear me out. Us perma TRs are locked into the idea that we NEED a stealth replenisher because of how damage affects stealth.
"can re-activate stealth at any time to go BACK into stealth. Id also like to see hitting "tab" again would pop you out of stealth with your remaining bar."
"Stealth is on a PURE time basis and is not hindered based on damage."
"When removed from stealth, you RETAIN any "stealth" meter you had left."
These three changes might be enough to balance rogue as is for pvp, PVE is a different story. Now if you are not seeing the possibilities here, let me explain. I did a test recently. In full profound gear my stealth meter lasts right around 9 seconds, it recharges in about the same time, it's a bit different without stealth boosting armor, but i'll address that later. Meaning, if damage does not affect stealth, I have 9 seconds of visibility for every 9 seconds of stealth, with NO variance. Cover 5 of those seconds with ITC, and you have 4 seconds of vulnerability time. Add in two dodges and you have 0 vulnerability time outside of stealth(1 second for dodge, and +1 second stealth refill with twilight adept), with NO variance due to damage.
Now, as things stand at this point what we are looking at is something slightly less effective than semi-perma(ITC + SS + one offensive encounter). The difference being that the rogue gets full control over his visibility time. Interesting possibilities present themselves with that control, such as stealthing out during flurry CC immunity phase, stealthing out during a dodge roll to gap close on a ranged class trying to kite and wait us out, stealthing out to emote wave at a opponent from across a node.
Here's the sweet part, we now have two offensive encounters slotted, and we get to use them both with full stealth bonuses whenever they are off cooldown.
Want to make life living hell for a DC? Smoke bomb + Dazing strike. Load Dazing to CC your target then bring the pain with a auto crit Lashing(do I need to mention how effective this would be against GF block if you got around it). POTB and LB for maximum pain, though really, if you can re-stealth dazing is probably better, and the stealth bonus to POTB isn't really all that great. Sadly, most of a rogue's other encounters are not really pvp viable, and have really atrocious stealth bonuses. Really, they need to be reworked for PVE anyway. Obviously, impact shot would have to be reworked, otherwise it would be infinite ranged stun.
Tenacious would be reworked to the following : Tenacious concealment *REWORK* Your stealth now depletes 3/6/9% slower when active, and recharges 5/10/15% faster when inactive. The obvious choice for boosting your stealth, the rework is intended to promote the rogue to not sit and wait in stealth for extended periods of time, and creates a higher amount of stealth to use for those with armor sets other than stealth boosting, difference being, maximum amount of time available in stealth continuously. Skillful infiltrator now becomes a strong contender for those who want increased movement speed both in stealth and out of it, since you no longer absolutely have to load TC or just not have stealth.
Saboteur becomes the natural high stealth build due to sneaky stabber(I know alot of people don't use GC, I do) and the paragon feat that has synergy with twilight adept. I would also like to see the following rework to capstone : Your Daily, Encounter, and At will powers have a 10% decreased activation time while stealthed. This would fit nicely with the Saboteur MO, which seems to be speed. Not sure how difficult that would be to code, so maybe just make the armor pen bonus permanent but not affect GS.
Not really sure what to do about scoundrel cap stone, since whirlwind sneak attack would be active all the time. I know there are some scoundrel pvpers out there but I've always seen it more as having potential as AOE damage in conjunction with whisper knife for PVE. If AOE damage existed for a rogue in PVE.
With two encounters to use from stealth, at any time he choses I might add, a executioner gets to strut his stuff in the high burst he used to do. 1 flurry, not that dangerous. 1 flurry, followed by dazing, followed by LB, talking serious burst here. Did I mention how sexy that is in conjunction with lurker's assault? Well, not open beta sexy, but we are not allowed to return to return to open beta sexy.
A couple of issues come to mind. The prospect of a "blinking" rogue. In other words, someone rapidly tapping tab, not being targetable, and not draining stealth. So how responsive should a tabable stealth be? To stealth in should always be instantaneous. However, to prevent "blinking" anytime a rogue stealths in there is a one second period where he cannot stealth back out with tab. Encounters remove the rogue from stealth with full stealth bonuses to that encounter.
Overall, TR is no longer an invisible man that you won't see for 30 seconds other than flurrying your hide. He becomes much more effective in combat and burst, though pretty much from a fast activation dazing and auto-crit LB, which is admittedly pretty limited. Smoke bomb isn't too bad in PVP either. Would be nice to see a buff back to impact shot, taking into account not to make it a infinite ranged stun.
Node contesting becomes less of an issue, and other players would be able to see and track the rogue better than before. That however, could work to the rogue's advantage. Put stealth under the full control of the player and all sorts of trickery, misdirection, and deceit become possible. I would add, with these changes you never have to worry about your stealth rotation being wrecked or being forced to spend an extended period of time out of stealth, and you pretty much only ever have to ITC when you NEED to ITC.
I'm not saying this would solve all the balance issues with rogue, but so far it's the one I like best that eliminates perma-stealth. I have never and will not support at-wills draining stealth in any way, shape, or form.
I'd rather let the GF have an ability to escape CC so he can get out once frozen (but not as often as a GWF can go unstoppable, hence tying it to daily activation).
You know, you can always use Villain's Menace right before the chill stacks hit 6. Why escape CC when you can prevent it? (and get a nice damage boost as well)
I would prefer if they switch the daze to a stun. Daze isn't very useful if someone can just run away while dazed. especially since we have to wind up our DF
If to be specific, its less of a daze problem and more of a general melee problem. NW is just very, very unfriendly to melees in general.
Like, you can land this perfect, lovely Dazing Strike smack on top of a cocky HR(for instance)... and then what..? He simply walks in one direction and he's not going to be hit with any more extra attacks -- even if its a faster activating SF rather than DF, only one extra attack lands if the target has good reflexes and starts walking promptly after being hit.
GFs and GWFs complain that their prones have been downgraded to stuns, and how the ol' prone-prone-IBS combo is a bit unstable now.
I understand they must be really frustrated to experience a very reliable, "guaranteed" combo becoming unstable... but... gee;
...as a TR, having any CC that plants the target immovable is just such a luxury from where we stand.
Boy do I wish for a frickin' feat that gives "chance to slow target when it is dazed" type of ability or feat...
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
You know, you can always use Villain's Menace right before the chill stacks hit 6. Why escape CC when you can prevent it? (and get a nice damage boost as well)
Because with the speed that chill stacks are getting stacked on you now, you basically have to hit Villain's Menace long before 5. Theres a moment of response time to activating Villain's Menace. Not to mention that the daily only lasts so long, then the chill stacking starts all over again. I used to use Villain's Menace on my PVP specced GF, I end up getting controlled while in the animation for activating it. Same thing with HRs Forest Ghost. You need to stop doing anything and everything, not to mention not get interrupted, for 2 seconds. Unless youre fighting a class without cc, that's just not going to work.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
If to be specific, its less of a daze problem and more of a general melee problem. NW is just very, very unfriendly to melees in general.
Like, you can land this perfect, lovely Dazing Strike smack on top of a cocky HR(for instance)... and then what..? He simply walks in one direction and he's not going to be hit with any more extra attacks -- even if its a faster activating SF rather than DF, only one extra attack lands if the target has good reflexes and starts walking promptly after being hit.
GFs and GWFs complain that their prones have been downgraded to stuns, and how the ol' prone-prone-IBS combo is a bit unstable now.
I understand they must be really frustrated to experience a very reliable, "guaranteed" combo becoming unstable... but... gee;
...as a TR, having any CC that plants the target immovable is just such a luxury from where we stand.
Boy do I wish for a frickin' feat that gives "chance to slow target when it is dazed" type of ability or feat...
Yup all you say is true. The GWF stun change is what gave me the idea. Not OP but more useful than a daze. Like you said, for melee the daze doesn't seem to help that much.
"can re-activate stealth at any time to go BACK into stealth. Id also like to see hitting "tab" again would pop you out of stealth with your remaining bar."
+1 this! I've never understood that about the TR...and I don't even like playing the class. Its not like the stealthed character class is unique to NW and with others I've played, you could go in and out of stealth - retaining what is left. HOWEVER - in other games you also lost the benefit of stealth once you attacked your opponent. Once retreating back to the safety of stealth, you're no longer vulnerable to retaliation - AoE or otherwise. Once you attack you're just as vulnerable as your opponent. This is why I disliked the class in NW.
"can re-activate stealth at any time to go BACK into stealth. Id also like to see hitting "tab" again would pop you out of stealth with your remaining bar."
"Stealth is on a PURE time basis and is not hindered based on damage."
"When removed from stealth, you RETAIN any "stealth" meter you had left."
These three changes might be enough to balance rogue as is for pvp, PVE is a different story.
I'm not saying this would solve all the balance issues with rogue, but so far it's the one I like best that eliminates perma-stealth. I have never and will not support at-wills draining stealth in any way, shape, or form.
Yeah Ive been thinking ALOT about TR lately and used to play 1 competitively in PVP back on Mindflayer (not the best TR - I admit that).
But I was thinking what would get ME excited about playing TR again. Another idea I had was that I think visibility DOES need an increase, but maybe its only increased for 180 degrees INFRONT of a character (much like block for GFs is 180 degrees frontal only).
So what this COULD mean is:
Stealth makes you invisible with DECREASED visibility (from live) when behind a person, but INCREASED visibility when the TR is infront of a person. I think thats part of the issue is a TR can be standing just a few feet infront of someone and be completely unseen. Like you said, IF changes above, there are alot of opportunities to take advantage of TR Stealth and its used LESS as a defensive "crutch" but alot more for utility and setting up offensive abilities - being able to use ALL your encounters "stealth bonus" for instance.
About Stealth Regen:
IF stealth is to regen when NOT in use (again more identical to a GFs block now) then I think the over duration of stealth needs to be looked at (when in combat only). I still think outside combat stealth should be "insta filled" thus allowing a TR to indefinitely hide in the shadows until attacking or being attacked.
If you allow regen outside of stealth in combat, WITH the ability to go in and out whenever and attack during stealth that scares me. I think giving some abilities stealth regen (not a full bar) is fine, because it allows you to budget stealth, but as you mentioned, stealth for 8+, then ITC for 5, dodge for a few it will be relatively hard to kill a TR and with increased damage - I dont know how that would work.
I think if you THEN added the deflect and tankiness TRs would be too hard to kill, remove that and they are too east to kill if CCd.
If the BASE duration of stealth was increased EQUAL to the BASE duration+ T2.5 stealth bonus (30%) this would be sufficient BASE stealth.
You could re-work class features to grant even SOME stealth duration bonus OR even possible small amount of regen. I still think though that enabling a semi-perma or perma TR should be "locked" to a paragon path and more "Combat" TRs should be stuck with seeing stealth as a resource they have control over, without the ability to use it as a defensive crutch.
I only see this possible with a feat allowing for added deflect (maybe based on missing stealth meter) along with the ability to CHOOSE when to pop in and out of stealth. AS of right now, once a TR is out, he is out. Allowing them to choose to go back in, with half a meter - opens up ALOT of defensive and offensive capability.
You guys are forgetting that TR caught by icy rays or any other CC after ITC = death
without being able to stealth (Say your meter ran completely out) after that ITC I don't know how you expect TR to stay alive.
even with additional defensive stats ... (Don't give me that deflect nonsense, anyone who does the math on Deflect knows its arguably the worst defensive stat) it still sounds like the scenario will be Kite, wait till tr runs out of stealth then LOL fest with CC unless TR's get
Stun's to land damage combos
or
Additional CC breaks that can help while stealth is refilling
You guys are forgetting that TR caught by icy rays or any other CC after ITC = death
without being able to stealth (Say your meter ran completely out) after that ITC I don't know how you expect TR to stay alive.
even with additional defensive stats ... (Don't give me that deflect nonsense, anyone who does the math on Deflect knows its arguably the worst defensive stat) it still sounds like the scenario will be Kite, wait till tr runs out of stealth then LOL fest with CC unless TR's get
Stun's to land damage combos
or
Additional CC breaks that can help while stealth is refilling
Because if a TR no longer NEEDS to stack PVP gear, this opens up other gear options, allows a TR to stack deflect to even 40%, and then further 25% = 65% with a deflect severity of 75%?! Thats not bad math... The biggest thing that kills people in games is burst DPS, the biggest deterrant to that is burst mitigation. Deflect is good, especially on a TR with 75% severity.
You cant punch the "math" in because PVP isnt about a DR fight, the same way DPS cant be used in PVP because its not about DPS its about burst.
- A PERFECT example is module 2. My GF had much higher DPS than my Sent GWF but my Sent GWF had the massive BURST that made it much stronger. Statistically my GF should have an easier time killing but it was the burst that made GWFs so strong, not their DPS.
As for the question, with 8 seconds of base invis, 5 seconds of ITC and 60%+ Deflect @ 75% severity, a CW isnt going to be sitting back catching a TR and GGing them. The TR catches the CW off guard... Again Stealth meter would ONLY start draining once IN combat. So the TR can set himself up all he likes. He also could try and run OUT of combat to refill stealth - use pillars, LOS etc.
If the TR is caught offguard or out of stealth, then ya maybe he will die, a TR is more that high risk high reward, TR isnt a big tank or something who can toetotoe a class, he must use his tools of stealth. But dont mistake, every class doesnt NEED "CC" or "CC break" if they have proper tools to AVOID CC or cause enough pressure on a CW to not be able to sit back and CC chain.
That said, the TR IMO should be THE CW killer. Id like to see the above changes though before granting the TR even more tools, because I dont know if it would be needed TBH. If every encounter could be used FROM stealth, thats alot of opportunity to take advantage of... If the TR was given proper damage incentives tho gear options, and changing some feats around, I think they could be pretty deadly without needing stealth as a crutch.
Yes but the issue with that is that you'll need to severely buff the TR damage before it can compete on a damage spectrum, even with the first hit
and I don't see cryptic doing that after they spent the entire games history nerfing our damage
Mod 1-2, Lurkers nerf, Duelist flurry nerf, Cloud of steel nerf
Mod 3, Impact shot Nerf
Mod 4, Bilethorn nerf
Last buff that happened? None that I can recall
and so the trend continues...
And most of this has been because of the entire "perma" issue. Not being able to be hit has caused them to constantly nref damage to make it "fair" now there is nothing a TR can do.
Another idea would be to make it so encounters DIDNT pull you from stealth.
So keep the same "Stealth drain during combat ONLY" Encounters DONT pull you from stealth, only you can end stealth early, you retain any extra meter left over and can recast, stealth refills outside combat instantly. Damage doesnt drain stealth.
This means a TR could encounter AND attack while in stealth the entire time. Just a thought.
But yes, Damage needs to be brought back up ALOT. In my opinion something LIKE what the HR has in "marking" a target could be used for TR and gives a damage boost.
I dont know how that would work but ideally the TR should be the master 1v1 DPS. So IMO, the ability to boost damage on solo hitting abilities should be brought up.
Personally Lashing Blade should get a damage boost, HOWEVER, the "stealth" bonus of 100% crit removed in favor of a shorter CD (50%) - This would boost usefulness alot for 1v1 DPS.
Smoke Screen could add a DoT - again adding DPs. ETC
Another thing to add to the LONG LIST of active TR bugs - that have existed since beta
was in a premade vs premade today and I spent 3 whole minutes without stealth (untill I died to clear it) because my bar got glitched from a daily and my stealth meter wouldnt refill
Sicarius you're such a hypocrite, you're using greater red dragon glyph so NO you have no right to say how broken other classes are.
WRONG! It'd only be hypocritical if he said that only dummies or people who can't play use them. I can call CWs OP but I'll be right on my CW with them doesn't make me a hypocrite just someone who knows how to adapt well with the new FOTm
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Devs introduced a new heavy-ranged DPS class AND buffed the existing ranged classes. You either put a limit to group comps like 3 ranged- 3 melees or some pvp games just turn in a shooting game. Also, right now skill si at a minimum. Even the old gwfs needed to be careful not missing roar. Now all you have is a bunch of newbies jumping in and DPS from range with new skill-less mechanic. Pvp has become very melee- unfriendly with the ranged DPS overkill.
Because if a TR no longer NEEDS to stack PVP gear, this opens up other gear options, allows a TR to stack deflect to even 40%, and then further 25% = 65% with a deflect severity of 75%?! Thats not bad math... The biggest thing that kills people in games is burst DPS, the biggest deterrant to that is burst mitigation. Deflect is good, especially on a TR with 75% severity.
You cant punch the "math" in because PVP isnt about a DR fight, the same way DPS cant be used in PVP because its not about DPS its about burst.
- A PERFECT example is module 2. My GF had much higher DPS than my Sent GWF but my Sent GWF had the massive BURST that made it much stronger. Statistically my GF should have an easier time killing but it was the burst that made GWFs so strong, not their DPS.
As for the question, with 8 seconds of base invis, 5 seconds of ITC and 60%+ Deflect @ 75% severity, a CW isnt going to be sitting back catching a TR and GGing them. The TR catches the CW off guard... Again Stealth meter would ONLY start draining once IN combat. So the TR can set himself up all he likes. He also could try and run OUT of combat to refill stealth - use pillars, LOS etc.
If the TR is caught offguard or out of stealth, then ya maybe he will die, a TR is more that high risk high reward, TR isnt a big tank or something who can toetotoe a class, he must use his tools of stealth. But dont mistake, every class doesnt NEED "CC" or "CC break" if they have proper tools to AVOID CC or cause enough pressure on a CW to not be able to sit back and CC chain.
That said, the TR IMO should be THE CW killer. Id like to see the above changes though before granting the TR even more tools, because I dont know if it would be needed TBH. If every encounter could be used FROM stealth, thats alot of opportunity to take advantage of... If the TR was given proper damage incentives tho gear options, and changing some feats around, I think they could be pretty deadly without needing stealth as a crutch.
My response to this as a cw:
If I catch the TR out of stealth why shouldn't I be able to kill him? Even Gear, Skill level, ect. It should be a 50/50 chance. If a TR catches me un aware and out of position then yes, he / she can burst me down. But likewise, if I catch them, I should be able to snag them as well.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Comments
Yeah and they are probably already working on it right now.... So if there is any hope for direction it would be now to discuss it and make it public for the DEVs to MAYBE see....
I didnt bring it up, I just responded some ideas I have had. I used to TR and LOVED it! But the entire "perma" thing was just so dumb I didnt go down that path and quit my TR... Id love to play again (played a Rogue in WoW for over 4 years) but the perma <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is just so lame. Almost like the "perma sprint "gwf today.... Its a cheese mechanic and makes it not fun to play the class.
I cant say perma is good but we dont have great feats passive stats to survive in other ways. So or they rework the enitre class or they work like dersidius suggested which is what i wrote plenty of time in the tr section of the forum. There are some more points i would like to copy past here but now i m from my phone so i cant
Thats the whole point. If damage is boosted up, the entire idea or theory of a TR is going in and out of stealth, so you would pick and choose.
The idea is this:
You stealth around without meter draining because your outside combat. Once you attack someone, via encounter your pulled out, or at will and you stay in stealth, but encounter and your pulled out - with virtually a full stealth bar. YOu re-stealth but are in combat. move a few seconds to setup another combo and encounter - pop out.
Then you can pop things like ITC or by this time your stealth is fairly low, you rely on roll/dodge and other abilities to attack, maybe pop back in stealth for another 2 seconds then pop back out with a drained bar. So youve been in stealth 3 times without filling your meter. Now your meter is gone and you get the deflect boost for adding tankiness outside combat.
TR encounters would need some damage boosts, but its just a start. Also, again, things like Shadow Strike and BaS could grant SOME refill. Maybe each regens like half your stealth bar over 5 seconds or something.
Then you also have Lurkers which can be used for stealth too. Overall, boosted damage outside stealth, boosted defense outside stealth and boosted ability to pop in and out of stealth AND retain stealth outside of combat indefinitely!
If you want a "perma" build you can do that with the Sabotour tree and gain stealth refill on each attack however at the loss of damage.
It obviously needs some additional works, but this is how stealth should work IMO. Not how it is today
Your last two posts have all contained viable ideas however your messing something important .
For a class that's going in and out of stealth there needs to be some affective means of stunning and protection so that after itc is gone classes with control won't eat tr alive because tr can control back
Its a shame whisper knife is unviable due to the lack of itc, I really love the ideology of teleporting and defying all over the place with some immunity
No ,it's because as of right now CW can prema freeze you and don't need to have good gear.Seen a CW with a 12 gs,no wpn or arm enchantment,with rank 5s kill a GF who had way better gear.All he did was Ray of Frost till he was frozen and started CC chain.That easy and the GF wasn't a bad player,just CW are broken right now.
1: have you not seen how tanky GWF can be?A little dmg not going to hurt them.2: your just about always going to be taking dmg so thats not that big of a deal to build.3 when they pop Unstoppable they heal.
I do play/did a CW.Stop playing him when mod 4 hit and they became broken.I'm think you don't know the class your playing.I don't know how many times I've seen a GF use Lunging Strike and get caught by Entangling Force before it hits.So yea slower casting time and it's range vs melee so if the CW is 80' away slower casting time doesn't matter.Now for the turn around faster part.Entangling Force 10.1s ,Ray of Frost 0s,Icy Terrain 18s,Ray of Enfeeblement 18s,Icy Rays 14.6s.Lunging Strike 8s,Bull Charge 14s,Frontline Surge 18s.Now add the PVP armor for Spell Mastery Recharge Speed and that int is a prime stat which most CW add to.But GF do not normal add int.That would make it just about even for Recharge Speed.Now add that it's melee vs range and CW have it.
A unskilled CW can kill a higher geared GF easier then A more skilled GF can a better geared CW.
No tool? ok so CW don't have 2 skill to get past block.
Sorry did type the wrong range on Lunging Strike it is 65' and Threatening Rush is 28'.But less dmg doesn't mean any thing if the target is frozen in 1-2 sec.Then CC to death the last 6-8 sec.But the non-oppressor take what 3-4 sec to freeze someone now?
If your having prob not telling when a GF isn't blocking then theres no help for you.It is easy to see.I'll guess and say you can't tell when a GWF is Unstoppable or not ...big bigger.Shield up in front, shield not up in front.
As of right now CW can kill better skill/geared player because of the fast freezing.In mod 3 a good CW could kill someone of = gear/skill.Now a unskilled CW can just kill people easy with out needing to work at it.It's just the hole GWF thing, smash keyboard to get kill.this time it's hold 1 button then hit 4 others to win.I'd love to see CW be a top PVP class,there fun to play.Just not one that is over powered and needs no skill to play.
Yeah I think if DPS was boosted and "tankiness" was boosted you dont necessarily need as much control.
Thinks like Smoke Bomb could have an added DoT to them.
Shadow Strike - the daze should be added to the base version. Stealth bonus is just adding stealth regen (say 50% over 5 seconds)
Lashing Blade - Stealth bonus = 50% reduced CD (again with the new control over when to be in and out of stealth - good improvement IMO)
Impact Shot could be beefed up some as well. Maybe 2 charges of the old versions damage.
Bait and Switch: Should add some "AI" to this dummy IMO and make it walk around, would be cool if it "mimiced" your character somehow but in a different location. Power would also refill stealth 50% of your bar over 5 seconds
Things LIKE this to give the TR abilities to pop in and out of stealth. Damage needs to be beefed up somehow, I think things LIKE LB stealth reducing CD by 50% is fair. Might bring LB builds back!
Overall TRs should be THE stealth striker. They should be able to sneak around behind enemy lines, and drop a caster not paying attention really fast, however CURRENTLY their ability to do this AND "perma" stealth causes the balance issues.
If they made "perma" much more a capstone build thing, and beefed up damage and tankiness for other specs, that would be balance. The entire roll of the TR changes at this point.
I saw ayroux catch some flak from these suggestions, but I have to say they look spot on to me. I run a Perma TR, have since M2, it's my main. I'll add I mostly disagree with his perspective on GWF, i'm loving sprinting up to someone and getting in their face. I saw two things I completely disagree with. #1 "TR would still only charge outside combat, but the remaining "stealth" could still be used". This would only promote a TR running in, getting in some hits, and running away. Stealth should ALWAYS replenish when not active. #2 Increasing stealth detection range. A lot of TR abilities are point blank, remove perma stealth and this becomes a huge handicap.
Now, I know many TRs might be rolling their eyes at ayroux and now me, but hear me out. Us perma TRs are locked into the idea that we NEED a stealth replenisher because of how damage affects stealth.
"can re-activate stealth at any time to go BACK into stealth. Id also like to see hitting "tab" again would pop you out of stealth with your remaining bar."
"Stealth is on a PURE time basis and is not hindered based on damage."
"When removed from stealth, you RETAIN any "stealth" meter you had left."
These three changes might be enough to balance rogue as is for pvp, PVE is a different story. Now if you are not seeing the possibilities here, let me explain. I did a test recently. In full profound gear my stealth meter lasts right around 9 seconds, it recharges in about the same time, it's a bit different without stealth boosting armor, but i'll address that later. Meaning, if damage does not affect stealth, I have 9 seconds of visibility for every 9 seconds of stealth, with NO variance. Cover 5 of those seconds with ITC, and you have 4 seconds of vulnerability time. Add in two dodges and you have 0 vulnerability time outside of stealth(1 second for dodge, and +1 second stealth refill with twilight adept), with NO variance due to damage.
Now, as things stand at this point what we are looking at is something slightly less effective than semi-perma(ITC + SS + one offensive encounter). The difference being that the rogue gets full control over his visibility time. Interesting possibilities present themselves with that control, such as stealthing out during flurry CC immunity phase, stealthing out during a dodge roll to gap close on a ranged class trying to kite and wait us out, stealthing out to emote wave at a opponent from across a node.
Here's the sweet part, we now have two offensive encounters slotted, and we get to use them both with full stealth bonuses whenever they are off cooldown.
Want to make life living hell for a DC? Smoke bomb + Dazing strike. Load Dazing to CC your target then bring the pain with a auto crit Lashing(do I need to mention how effective this would be against GF block if you got around it). POTB and LB for maximum pain, though really, if you can re-stealth dazing is probably better, and the stealth bonus to POTB isn't really all that great. Sadly, most of a rogue's other encounters are not really pvp viable, and have really atrocious stealth bonuses. Really, they need to be reworked for PVE anyway. Obviously, impact shot would have to be reworked, otherwise it would be infinite ranged stun.
Tenacious would be reworked to the following : Tenacious concealment *REWORK* Your stealth now depletes 3/6/9% slower when active, and recharges 5/10/15% faster when inactive. The obvious choice for boosting your stealth, the rework is intended to promote the rogue to not sit and wait in stealth for extended periods of time, and creates a higher amount of stealth to use for those with armor sets other than stealth boosting, difference being, maximum amount of time available in stealth continuously. Skillful infiltrator now becomes a strong contender for those who want increased movement speed both in stealth and out of it, since you no longer absolutely have to load TC or just not have stealth.
Saboteur becomes the natural high stealth build due to sneaky stabber(I know alot of people don't use GC, I do) and the paragon feat that has synergy with twilight adept. I would also like to see the following rework to capstone : Your Daily, Encounter, and At will powers have a 10% decreased activation time while stealthed. This would fit nicely with the Saboteur MO, which seems to be speed. Not sure how difficult that would be to code, so maybe just make the armor pen bonus permanent but not affect GS.
Not really sure what to do about scoundrel cap stone, since whirlwind sneak attack would be active all the time. I know there are some scoundrel pvpers out there but I've always seen it more as having potential as AOE damage in conjunction with whisper knife for PVE. If AOE damage existed for a rogue in PVE.
With two encounters to use from stealth, at any time he choses I might add, a executioner gets to strut his stuff in the high burst he used to do. 1 flurry, not that dangerous. 1 flurry, followed by dazing, followed by LB, talking serious burst here. Did I mention how sexy that is in conjunction with lurker's assault? Well, not open beta sexy, but we are not allowed to return to return to open beta sexy.
A couple of issues come to mind. The prospect of a "blinking" rogue. In other words, someone rapidly tapping tab, not being targetable, and not draining stealth. So how responsive should a tabable stealth be? To stealth in should always be instantaneous. However, to prevent "blinking" anytime a rogue stealths in there is a one second period where he cannot stealth back out with tab. Encounters remove the rogue from stealth with full stealth bonuses to that encounter.
Overall, TR is no longer an invisible man that you won't see for 30 seconds other than flurrying your hide. He becomes much more effective in combat and burst, though pretty much from a fast activation dazing and auto-crit LB, which is admittedly pretty limited. Smoke bomb isn't too bad in PVP either. Would be nice to see a buff back to impact shot, taking into account not to make it a infinite ranged stun.
Node contesting becomes less of an issue, and other players would be able to see and track the rogue better than before. That however, could work to the rogue's advantage. Put stealth under the full control of the player and all sorts of trickery, misdirection, and deceit become possible. I would add, with these changes you never have to worry about your stealth rotation being wrecked or being forced to spend an extended period of time out of stealth, and you pretty much only ever have to ITC when you NEED to ITC.
I'm not saying this would solve all the balance issues with rogue, but so far it's the one I like best that eliminates perma-stealth. I have never and will not support at-wills draining stealth in any way, shape, or form.
You know, you can always use Villain's Menace right before the chill stacks hit 6. Why escape CC when you can prevent it? (and get a nice damage boost as well)
If to be specific, its less of a daze problem and more of a general melee problem. NW is just very, very unfriendly to melees in general.
Like, you can land this perfect, lovely Dazing Strike smack on top of a cocky HR(for instance)... and then what..? He simply walks in one direction and he's not going to be hit with any more extra attacks -- even if its a faster activating SF rather than DF, only one extra attack lands if the target has good reflexes and starts walking promptly after being hit.
GFs and GWFs complain that their prones have been downgraded to stuns, and how the ol' prone-prone-IBS combo is a bit unstable now.
I understand they must be really frustrated to experience a very reliable, "guaranteed" combo becoming unstable... but... gee;
...as a TR, having any CC that plants the target immovable is just such a luxury from where we stand.
Boy do I wish for a frickin' feat that gives "chance to slow target when it is dazed" type of ability or feat...
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Because with the speed that chill stacks are getting stacked on you now, you basically have to hit Villain's Menace long before 5. Theres a moment of response time to activating Villain's Menace. Not to mention that the daily only lasts so long, then the chill stacking starts all over again. I used to use Villain's Menace on my PVP specced GF, I end up getting controlled while in the animation for activating it. Same thing with HRs Forest Ghost. You need to stop doing anything and everything, not to mention not get interrupted, for 2 seconds. Unless youre fighting a class without cc, that's just not going to work.
Yup all you say is true. The GWF stun change is what gave me the idea. Not OP but more useful than a daze. Like you said, for melee the daze doesn't seem to help that much.
+1 this! I've never understood that about the TR...and I don't even like playing the class. Its not like the stealthed character class is unique to NW and with others I've played, you could go in and out of stealth - retaining what is left. HOWEVER - in other games you also lost the benefit of stealth once you attacked your opponent. Once retreating back to the safety of stealth, you're no longer vulnerable to retaliation - AoE or otherwise. Once you attack you're just as vulnerable as your opponent. This is why I disliked the class in NW.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah Ive been thinking ALOT about TR lately and used to play 1 competitively in PVP back on Mindflayer (not the best TR - I admit that).
But I was thinking what would get ME excited about playing TR again. Another idea I had was that I think visibility DOES need an increase, but maybe its only increased for 180 degrees INFRONT of a character (much like block for GFs is 180 degrees frontal only).
So what this COULD mean is:
Stealth makes you invisible with DECREASED visibility (from live) when behind a person, but INCREASED visibility when the TR is infront of a person. I think thats part of the issue is a TR can be standing just a few feet infront of someone and be completely unseen. Like you said, IF changes above, there are alot of opportunities to take advantage of TR Stealth and its used LESS as a defensive "crutch" but alot more for utility and setting up offensive abilities - being able to use ALL your encounters "stealth bonus" for instance.
About Stealth Regen:
IF stealth is to regen when NOT in use (again more identical to a GFs block now) then I think the over duration of stealth needs to be looked at (when in combat only). I still think outside combat stealth should be "insta filled" thus allowing a TR to indefinitely hide in the shadows until attacking or being attacked.
If you allow regen outside of stealth in combat, WITH the ability to go in and out whenever and attack during stealth that scares me. I think giving some abilities stealth regen (not a full bar) is fine, because it allows you to budget stealth, but as you mentioned, stealth for 8+, then ITC for 5, dodge for a few it will be relatively hard to kill a TR and with increased damage - I dont know how that would work.
I think if you THEN added the deflect and tankiness TRs would be too hard to kill, remove that and they are too east to kill if CCd.
If the BASE duration of stealth was increased EQUAL to the BASE duration+ T2.5 stealth bonus (30%) this would be sufficient BASE stealth.
You could re-work class features to grant even SOME stealth duration bonus OR even possible small amount of regen. I still think though that enabling a semi-perma or perma TR should be "locked" to a paragon path and more "Combat" TRs should be stuck with seeing stealth as a resource they have control over, without the ability to use it as a defensive crutch.
I only see this possible with a feat allowing for added deflect (maybe based on missing stealth meter) along with the ability to CHOOSE when to pop in and out of stealth. AS of right now, once a TR is out, he is out. Allowing them to choose to go back in, with half a meter - opens up ALOT of defensive and offensive capability.
without being able to stealth (Say your meter ran completely out) after that ITC I don't know how you expect TR to stay alive.
even with additional defensive stats ... (Don't give me that deflect nonsense, anyone who does the math on Deflect knows its arguably the worst defensive stat) it still sounds like the scenario will be Kite, wait till tr runs out of stealth then LOL fest with CC unless TR's get
Stun's to land damage combos
or
Additional CC breaks that can help while stealth is refilling
Because if a TR no longer NEEDS to stack PVP gear, this opens up other gear options, allows a TR to stack deflect to even 40%, and then further 25% = 65% with a deflect severity of 75%?! Thats not bad math... The biggest thing that kills people in games is burst DPS, the biggest deterrant to that is burst mitigation. Deflect is good, especially on a TR with 75% severity.
You cant punch the "math" in because PVP isnt about a DR fight, the same way DPS cant be used in PVP because its not about DPS its about burst.
- A PERFECT example is module 2. My GF had much higher DPS than my Sent GWF but my Sent GWF had the massive BURST that made it much stronger. Statistically my GF should have an easier time killing but it was the burst that made GWFs so strong, not their DPS.
As for the question, with 8 seconds of base invis, 5 seconds of ITC and 60%+ Deflect @ 75% severity, a CW isnt going to be sitting back catching a TR and GGing them. The TR catches the CW off guard... Again Stealth meter would ONLY start draining once IN combat. So the TR can set himself up all he likes. He also could try and run OUT of combat to refill stealth - use pillars, LOS etc.
If the TR is caught offguard or out of stealth, then ya maybe he will die, a TR is more that high risk high reward, TR isnt a big tank or something who can toetotoe a class, he must use his tools of stealth. But dont mistake, every class doesnt NEED "CC" or "CC break" if they have proper tools to AVOID CC or cause enough pressure on a CW to not be able to sit back and CC chain.
That said, the TR IMO should be THE CW killer. Id like to see the above changes though before granting the TR even more tools, because I dont know if it would be needed TBH. If every encounter could be used FROM stealth, thats alot of opportunity to take advantage of... If the TR was given proper damage incentives tho gear options, and changing some feats around, I think they could be pretty deadly without needing stealth as a crutch.
and I don't see cryptic doing that after they spent the entire games history nerfing our damage
Mod 1-2, Lurkers nerf, Duelist flurry nerf, Cloud of steel nerf
Mod 3, Impact shot Nerf
Mod 4, Bilethorn nerf
Last buff that happened? None that I can recall
and so the trend continues...
And most of this has been because of the entire "perma" issue. Not being able to be hit has caused them to constantly nref damage to make it "fair" now there is nothing a TR can do.
Another idea would be to make it so encounters DIDNT pull you from stealth.
So keep the same "Stealth drain during combat ONLY" Encounters DONT pull you from stealth, only you can end stealth early, you retain any extra meter left over and can recast, stealth refills outside combat instantly. Damage doesnt drain stealth.
This means a TR could encounter AND attack while in stealth the entire time. Just a thought.
But yes, Damage needs to be brought back up ALOT. In my opinion something LIKE what the HR has in "marking" a target could be used for TR and gives a damage boost.
I dont know how that would work but ideally the TR should be the master 1v1 DPS. So IMO, the ability to boost damage on solo hitting abilities should be brought up.
Personally Lashing Blade should get a damage boost, HOWEVER, the "stealth" bonus of 100% crit removed in favor of a shorter CD (50%) - This would boost usefulness alot for 1v1 DPS.
Smoke Screen could add a DoT - again adding DPs. ETC
was in a premade vs premade today and I spent 3 whole minutes without stealth (untill I died to clear it) because my bar got glitched from a daily and my stealth meter wouldnt refill
supposedly fixed shortly after beta
never happened
WRONG! It'd only be hypocritical if he said that only dummies or people who can't play use them. I can call CWs OP but I'll be right on my CW with them doesn't make me a hypocrite just someone who knows how to adapt well with the new FOTm
Cws running around with new easy mode setup. Archery hrs buffed. Geared SWs hit like a truck.
They introduced tenacity to make fights last longer, just to bring now the game back to a DPS fest with almost instakills.
are we playing rock-paper-scissors?
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
My response to this as a cw:
If I catch the TR out of stealth why shouldn't I be able to kill him? Even Gear, Skill level, ect. It should be a 50/50 chance. If a TR catches me un aware and out of position then yes, he / she can burst me down. But likewise, if I catch them, I should be able to snag them as well.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>