Devs introduced a new heavy-ranged DPS class AND buffed the existing ranged classes. You either put a limit to group comps like 3 ranged- 3 melees or some pvp games just turn in a shooting game. Also, right now skill si at a minimum. Even the old gwfs needed to be careful not missing roar. Now all you have is a bunch of newbies jumping in and DPS from range with new skill-less mechanic. Pvp has become very melee- unfriendly with the ranged DPS overkill.
Precisely why CW shouldn't 1 rotation their opponents , it's CONTROL wizard in a sense they should always be with another class TO help control with moderate damAGE while the other class does the heavy lifting
Precisely why CW shouldn't 1 rotation their opponents , it's CONTROL wizard in a sense they should always be with another class TO help control with moderate damAGE while the other class does the heavy lifting
I disagree. Every other class (DC aside) can 1 rotation another class (Probably warlock excepted at this stage). Just because the Class has control in the name does not mean it shouldn't be a viable 1v1 choice either.
Also, as point of reference: there is no better control than the target being dead....
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Problem is that even if TR will catch you off guard Desi, then he is not able to 'burst' you down. How much hp you have? At best he can land flurry twice in a row, and thats gonna hurt, but you will be still far from dead. playing TR need to be focused all the time, one mistake and you might get killed. This is why most of TR are never calling out premade matches.
On the same token a class that can hit you at full power from 80' of range should defiantly not have the damAGE capabilities that CW puts out right now... God forbid the PVP maps were bigger then what they are now. Wouldn't even be able to get half way of that 80 feet before your repeled potentially and 1 rotationed
Also in end game PvP... Truly end game with max gear, only cw has 1 rotation capabilities
If I catch the TR out of stealth why shouldn't I be able to kill him? Even Gear, Skill level, ect. It should be a 50/50 chance. If a TR catches me un aware and out of position then yes, he / she can burst me down. But likewise, if I catch them, I should be able to snag them as well.
It's not so much about whether or not my TR will die to your CW. Yes, you should absolutely be able to kill me, just as I should be able to kill you. It's the manner in which we kill each other. That's the thing people seem to miss. What people are saying is basically this; what if, on your CW, as soon as you get in melee range of a TR, you were dead? What if that's all I needed to do as a TR. I didn't need to actually kill you, that was simply a side effect. I just needed to get in melee range. Your only goal in the fight was to not let me get into melee range and whittle me down from afar, but as soon as I did I could lock you down so that you couldn't fight back and simply hold you there while I killed you. All the button mashing in the world on your keyboard wouldn't help. At that point you may as well just sit back for the 3 or 4 seconds it takes to die and watch. Now expand this and say what if the TR could do this to any class. That once he got in melee range he could just hold you there and lock you out of all skill use while the rest of his team pounded you to death.
The issue is that as a TR, and many of the other classes for that matter, I don't lose to a CW by them killing me. I lose to a CW by simply having a moment when I don't have a way to break out of the CC and they catch me. I don't play a CW so I don't want to oversimplify things. I'm sure that there is skill involved in being ready to catch me at the point of vulnerablility, but as a TR against a CW, it's really a game of Minesweeper as opposed to a good PvP matchup. I have to clear 80 squares on the board to win, but only get one wrong square to lose.
Problem is that even if TR will catch you off guard Desi, then he is not able to 'burst' you down. How much hp you have? At best he can land flurry twice in a row, and thats gonna hurt, but you will be still far from dead. playing TR need to be focused all the time, one mistake and you might get killed. This is why most of TR are never calling out premade matches.
I agree that TR's should be given the opportunity to burst people down again. Infact, I would relish that. I miss the old days have having to dodge the Lashing blade that would crit for 75% of my Hp. However, like Cws a balance needs to be made. You can't have all the survivability that stealth and ITC offers, with sensational burst.
On the same token a class that can hit you at full power from 80' of range should defiantly not have the damAGE capabilities that CW puts out right now... God forbid the PVP maps were bigger then what they are now. Wouldn't even be able to get half way of that 80 feet before your repeled potentially and 1 rotationed
Also in end game PvP... Truly end game with max gear, only cw has 1 rotation capabilities
Sic, Storm spell is broken. Yes. I have said that. Assailing is boring. Cws have always been able to crit hard with Encounters. At this moment in time in PvP, Icy Rays is the only Encounter that can do so, and it needs to be specced for, and needs to be on Tab. You say that Cws shouldn't have 80' range and be able to hit that hard. I disagree, even with shield, Cws drop down faster than a $2.00 hooker to players who know what they are doing.
Truly endgame gear only Cw has 1 rotation ability... Are you <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? HRs can 1 rotation people just as well. HR burst capability is much higher and more consistant than that of Cws. And they have better survivability with Deflect and Lifestel feats.
It's not so much about whether or not my TR will die to your CW. Yes, you should absolutely be able to kill me, just as I should be able to kill you. It's the manner in which we kill each other. That's the thing people seem to miss. What people are saying is basically this; what if, on your CW, as soon as you get in melee range of a TR, you were dead? What if that's all I needed to do as a TR. I didn't need to actually kill you, that was simply a side effect. I just needed to get in melee range. Your only goal in the fight was to not let me get into melee range and whittle me down from afar, but as soon as I did I could lock you down so that you couldn't fight back and simply hold you there while I killed you. All the button mashing in the world on your keyboard wouldn't help. At that point you may as well just sit back for the 3 or 4 seconds it takes to die and watch. Now expand this and say what if the TR could do this to any class. That once he got in melee range he could just hold you there and lock you out of all skill use while the rest of his team pounded you to death.
The issue is that as a TR, and many of the other classes for that matter, I don't lose to a CW by them killing me. I lose to a CW by simply having a moment when I don't have a way to break out of the CC and they catch me. I don't play a CW so I don't want to oversimplify things. I'm sure that there is skill involved in being ready to catch me at the point of vulnerablility, but as a TR against a CW, it's really a game of Minesweeper as opposed to a good PvP matchup. I have to clear 80 squares on the board to win, but only get one wrong square to lose.
I used to die extremely consistently to TRs whenever I got into melee range. Lashing Blade, followed by 3 Impact Shots was usually enough to do the job. And if it wasn't, than having the only daily which is completely undodgeable Crit for 2x my Hp was more than enough to finish me off.
The difference there was that if I caught the TR, 7/10 times ITC was up and they could get away. If I caught them without ITC, then it was in my favour.
I understand your frustration with being locked down. Now Imagine the same deal with a rogue spamming Impact Shot and critting you for 9-14K 3 times in a row. In order to dodge this train you had to be extremely aware of what was happening. By the same token I can claim that Impact crit spam rogues were exactly the same as Cws are currently with being locked down. (Obviously this is an overdramatisation).
For point of reference, last meta, it was extremely difficult for a Cw to catch a well played TR out of stealth.
Truly endgame gear only Cw has 1 rotation ability... Are you <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? HRs can 1 rotation people just as well. HR burst capability is much higher and more consistant than that of Cws. And they have better survivability with Deflect and Lifestel feats.
Well maybe. But they can't do it while the target is completely/near completely CC'ed, from range.
That's not really the bad part though. The bad part is nearly any CW can do it, regardless of gear.
Hamlet. Really?
Yes, really. All this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about "well the best form of control is killing a person" or "CW is supposed to be OP cause of lore" is just nonsense.
Well maybe. But they can't do it while the target is completely/near completely CC'ed, from range.
That's not really the bad part though. The bad part is nearly any CW can do it, regardless of gear.
Yes, really. All this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about "well the best form of control is killing a person" or "CW is supposed to be OP cause of lore" is just nonsense.
Your first point is moot. The question wasn't that no other class has the ability to 1 rotation. Hrs do. And it is domination Pvp. People need to stand on the nodes. So melee range is a given 80% of the time. Not to mention that Oppressive Force is still hands down one of the best dailies for CWs. So they will be on the node as well.
At no stage have I said that Cws need to be OP because of the lore. I play a wizard /mage arch type and always have. Typically High burst, low survivability. The shield rework has just placed Cws into a good spot with survivability atm.
The best sort of control is the person being dead... You can't deny that.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I used to die extremely consistently to TRs whenever I got into melee range. Lashing Blade, followed by 3 Impact Shots was usually enough to do the job. And if it wasn't, than having the only daily which is completely undodgeable Crit for 2x my Hp was more than enough to finish me off.
The difference there was that if I caught the TR, 7/10 times ITC was up and they could get away. If I caught them without ITC, then it was in my favour.
And impact shot was nerfed into oblivion. You're really just reinforcing the case to nerf CWs.
And impact shot was nerfed into oblivion. You're really just reinforcing the case to nerf CWs.
I know it was. I am not reinforcing anything. You provided an example of a CW dying within melee range to rogues. There is your example.
That happened consistently for Bare bones game and Mod 1. Now thats not a justification for the current state of Cws. And I have already said that Storm Spell needs a nerf. But by the same token. I don't want to see my class relegated to just CC'ing someone. I still want to have the burst. You can take away the CC. I don't even care.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
The best sort of control is the person being dead... You can't deny that.
It's just irrelevant for balance. It reminds me of when GWFs were saying that of course they should be 1-shotting people in mod3, they are after all "GREAT WEAPON fighters". Or how people say that CWs are OP in D&D. It's all irrelevant.
Melee range is definitely not a given 80% of the time. Try to land a full rotation with some rapid strikes on a CW that dodges well. Just because you're on the same node doesn't mean your in melee range.
It's much easier for a CW to unload a full rotation on someone at range than it is for an HR to do so at melee range (not to mention risks go up when you get close). As long as the CW is not being harassed and the other person is within 90', the CW can unload nonstop.
People have been able to one-rotation people for awhile in different mods in different classes but it's the first time since I've been playing that a range can do it so easily and consistently, especially without even being really geared.
To be honest, I think all of these issues would be avoided if balance was based on Best possible gear as opposed average gear... in a sense lower gear levels would still be balanced because its just a scaled down forme... but I'm just sounding like a broken record now
Comments
Precisely why CW shouldn't 1 rotation their opponents , it's CONTROL wizard in a sense they should always be with another class TO help control with moderate damAGE while the other class does the heavy lifting
I disagree. Every other class (DC aside) can 1 rotation another class (Probably warlock excepted at this stage). Just because the Class has control in the name does not mean it shouldn't be a viable 1v1 choice either.
Also, as point of reference: there is no better control than the target being dead....
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Also in end game PvP... Truly end game with max gear, only cw has 1 rotation capabilities
It's not so much about whether or not my TR will die to your CW. Yes, you should absolutely be able to kill me, just as I should be able to kill you. It's the manner in which we kill each other. That's the thing people seem to miss. What people are saying is basically this; what if, on your CW, as soon as you get in melee range of a TR, you were dead? What if that's all I needed to do as a TR. I didn't need to actually kill you, that was simply a side effect. I just needed to get in melee range. Your only goal in the fight was to not let me get into melee range and whittle me down from afar, but as soon as I did I could lock you down so that you couldn't fight back and simply hold you there while I killed you. All the button mashing in the world on your keyboard wouldn't help. At that point you may as well just sit back for the 3 or 4 seconds it takes to die and watch. Now expand this and say what if the TR could do this to any class. That once he got in melee range he could just hold you there and lock you out of all skill use while the rest of his team pounded you to death.
The issue is that as a TR, and many of the other classes for that matter, I don't lose to a CW by them killing me. I lose to a CW by simply having a moment when I don't have a way to break out of the CC and they catch me. I don't play a CW so I don't want to oversimplify things. I'm sure that there is skill involved in being ready to catch me at the point of vulnerablility, but as a TR against a CW, it's really a game of Minesweeper as opposed to a good PvP matchup. I have to clear 80 squares on the board to win, but only get one wrong square to lose.
I agree with this
You guys are ridiculous.
I agree that TR's should be given the opportunity to burst people down again. Infact, I would relish that. I miss the old days have having to dodge the Lashing blade that would crit for 75% of my Hp. However, like Cws a balance needs to be made. You can't have all the survivability that stealth and ITC offers, with sensational burst.
Sic, Storm spell is broken. Yes. I have said that. Assailing is boring. Cws have always been able to crit hard with Encounters. At this moment in time in PvP, Icy Rays is the only Encounter that can do so, and it needs to be specced for, and needs to be on Tab. You say that Cws shouldn't have 80' range and be able to hit that hard. I disagree, even with shield, Cws drop down faster than a $2.00 hooker to players who know what they are doing.
Truly endgame gear only Cw has 1 rotation ability... Are you <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? HRs can 1 rotation people just as well. HR burst capability is much higher and more consistant than that of Cws. And they have better survivability with Deflect and Lifestel feats.
I used to die extremely consistently to TRs whenever I got into melee range. Lashing Blade, followed by 3 Impact Shots was usually enough to do the job. And if it wasn't, than having the only daily which is completely undodgeable Crit for 2x my Hp was more than enough to finish me off.
The difference there was that if I caught the TR, 7/10 times ITC was up and they could get away. If I caught them without ITC, then it was in my favour.
I understand your frustration with being locked down. Now Imagine the same deal with a rogue spamming Impact Shot and critting you for 9-14K 3 times in a row. In order to dodge this train you had to be extremely aware of what was happening. By the same token I can claim that Impact crit spam rogues were exactly the same as Cws are currently with being locked down. (Obviously this is an overdramatisation).
For point of reference, last meta, it was extremely difficult for a Cw to catch a well played TR out of stealth.
Hamlet. Really?
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Well maybe. But they can't do it while the target is completely/near completely CC'ed, from range.
That's not really the bad part though. The bad part is nearly any CW can do it, regardless of gear.
Yes, really. All this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about "well the best form of control is killing a person" or "CW is supposed to be OP cause of lore" is just nonsense.
Your first point is moot. The question wasn't that no other class has the ability to 1 rotation. Hrs do. And it is domination Pvp. People need to stand on the nodes. So melee range is a given 80% of the time. Not to mention that Oppressive Force is still hands down one of the best dailies for CWs. So they will be on the node as well.
At no stage have I said that Cws need to be OP because of the lore. I play a wizard /mage arch type and always have. Typically High burst, low survivability. The shield rework has just placed Cws into a good spot with survivability atm.
The best sort of control is the person being dead... You can't deny that.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
And impact shot was nerfed into oblivion. You're really just reinforcing the case to nerf CWs.
I know it was. I am not reinforcing anything. You provided an example of a CW dying within melee range to rogues. There is your example.
That happened consistently for Bare bones game and Mod 1. Now thats not a justification for the current state of Cws. And I have already said that Storm Spell needs a nerf. But by the same token. I don't want to see my class relegated to just CC'ing someone. I still want to have the burst. You can take away the CC. I don't even care.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
nice signature :cool:
It's just irrelevant for balance. It reminds me of when GWFs were saying that of course they should be 1-shotting people in mod3, they are after all "GREAT WEAPON fighters". Or how people say that CWs are OP in D&D. It's all irrelevant.
Melee range is definitely not a given 80% of the time. Try to land a full rotation with some rapid strikes on a CW that dodges well. Just because you're on the same node doesn't mean your in melee range.
It's much easier for a CW to unload a full rotation on someone at range than it is for an HR to do so at melee range (not to mention risks go up when you get close). As long as the CW is not being harassed and the other person is within 90', the CW can unload nonstop.
People have been able to one-rotation people for awhile in different mods in different classes but it's the first time since I've been playing that a range can do it so easily and consistently, especially without even being really geared.