ok that was my old spec from live now here is a new video and true my skills were not on par with HR if thats what u wanna say but thats how i played live and so old habits die hard , and here is new build suggested by effesptien https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2wpeEXlNCE
and give me ur opinion and i will try to correct it. and will try to get more skill in that matter too.
And now they are boosting the duration of all the GWF's stuns, giving GWFs long-lasting stuns; 3 seconds base, divided by 1.2 for 20% Tenacity gives 2.5 seconds' worth of stunning time.
if u look in video HR blocked all my encounters way longer than my takedown , TR smoke bomb stun longer than that , CW icy terrain (single icy terrain) freezes longer than that . HR boar charge or whatever it is called also do prone , while GWF dont have any.
You mention homing missiles and then that Takedown has a slow animation, but neglect the fact that Takedown has a homing effect too, and that the *effect* fires before the animation is over, so it will often look like you dodged or avoided it, only for you to be rubberbanded back into position.
And now they are boosting the duration of all the GWF's stuns, giving GWFs long-lasting stuns; 3 seconds base, divided by 1.2 for 20% Tenacity gives 2.5 seconds' worth of stunning time.
I can dodge takedown with sprint on live. Don't come and tell me you can't dodge it with a dodge immunity move. The "homing" effect is a follow up that is applied only at a certain range. Not like a marauder rush that teleports the HR right to the enemy and auto-hits, or a CW spell that lock on the enemy. With my old CW too i could avoid takedown just with some movement and bunnyhopping in circle. That's how much it's a "homing" move.
Also: just like Flourish, the fact it "follows" does not mean it connects. A slow animation gives a good player a way to time the immune dodge/ moves (that one move any class has, except GWFs) and make takedown/ flourish crush on immunity.
Pleas, talk about stuff you know.
Show us a video of your mightly skills as a GWF.
Also: 2 seconds stuns on PTR results in 1 second stun with enemies dodging away before you're there to get them. I explained it before. You tested it? No. You "theorycraft" about a class you don't even play, and pretend to know how it works.
Let me give you guys a news: your theorycrafting is all wrong. Go test stuff.
You mention homing missiles and then that Takedown has a slow animation, but neglect the fact that Takedown has a homing effect too, and that the *effect* fires before the animation is over, so it will often look like you dodged or avoided it, only for you to be rubberbanded back into position.
And now they are boosting the duration of all the GWF's stuns, giving GWFs long-lasting stuns; 3 seconds base, divided by 1.2 for 20% Tenacity gives 2.5 seconds' worth of stunning time.
and 10% halfing or sun elf , and from wisdom, and maybe from artefact, and maybe maybe from class feats/feats and maybe maybe it won't matter even landing a hit it won't change nuthin ...
ok that was my old spec from live now here is a new video and true my skills were not on par with HR if thats what u wanna say but thats how i played live and so old habits die hard , and here is new build suggested by effesptien https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2wpeEXlNCE
and give me ur opinion and i will try to correct it. and will try to get more skill in that matter too.
indeed this buid can be promising as u can add more power more damage... but the cooldowns are too big... so using those skills will lower the hp, and the time of those cooldowns makes the enemy to refill his hp, it's not viable with those cooldowns... but it's better as a support gwf and hope somethil will be changed with it.
I can dodge takedown with sprint on live. Don't come and tell me you can't dodge it with a dodge immunity move. The "homing" effect is a follow up that is applied only at a certain range. Not like a marauder rush that teleports the HR right to the enemy and auto-hits, or a CW spell that lock on the enemy. With my old CW too i could avoid takedown just with some movement and bunnyhopping in circle. That's how much it's a "homing" move.
Also: just like Flourish, the fact it "follows" does not mean it connects. A slow animation gives a good player a way to time the immune dodge/ moves (that one move any class has, except GWFs) and make takedown/ flourish crush on immunity.
Pleas, talk about stuff you know.
Show us a video of your mightly skills as a GWF.
Also: 2 seconds stuns on PTR results in 1 second stun with enemies dodging away before you're there to get them. I explained it before. You tested it? No. You "theorycraft" about a class you don't even play, and pretend to know how it works.
Let me give you guys a news: your theorycrafting is all wrong. Go test stuff.
Look at SW, it is a total free kill in PvP now. Same problems as GWF, sprint (no immunity frames) but without proper defense and unstoppable, worst and fewest CC sklls (1 prone from harrowstorm but which can be easily dodged even by walking with any class), no CC immunity skills. I don't know what devs think releasing class with so many fundamental problems. Warlock should be banned from PvP for now. I've played against 5 with my undergeared thaum CW and they die like flies. I was seriously shocked how bad warlocks are in PvP. So at least GWF won't be at the bottom
well cw's will win against warlocks almost every time it's not because of dodges ect. it's because of how classes work. and it doesnt count very much on ptr where there are so few lvl 60 warlocks vs experienced CW's its a bit biased if you ask me.
This thread and the original OP serve as a primary example why GWF class considered easy to play and loathed by all other classes:
1.18k GWF ,that means a veteran player.Yet that veteran player does not have enough knowledge of his adversarries weaknesses.Misses ,attacking a GF while blocking ,attacking a GF during SoS.So how this veteran player for all this time dominated?You are all free to quess.He was facerolling ,has no tactics at all.His class was so OP that did not needed any tactic.Just continous clicking.Now that things changed he is asking for "buffs to my weak class".
2. Some mentioned and the OP that a similar gs GF is actually lower in gs.He has a gs inflation some said.Wake up call:RA feat does not affect gs since months.
3."Other classes lock on target while GWF don't".This is a lie.Dozens of pvpers and forumers can attest that nearly ALL GWF powers lock on target just with activating them.The GWF opponent might be faster PC game player and more eye hand coordinated:No luck the IBS/Takedawn will land even if you manage to get out of its way.
4."I am a melee fighter i can't reached them".No GWF is not a pure melee fighter.He has many ranged powers(roar,takedawn.fls,TR etc...) that keeping some dinstance from a GWF is pointless.You are already in his reach.
5."Sprint is lacking compated to other classes".Sprint is a superb ability .many Gf/Trs got in a frustrated melee with a GWF ,manage with perfect timing and gameplay to get the GWf at 20% health.At that time GWF sprints ,with a speed of something between a 50% and a 80% mount,just to use a potion and return refreshed.No other class can do that.
6."Our prones were nerfed'.With GF prones.And you got monumental increases in stuns.Some classes do not have either.yet they continue to play and excell.
7."Other classes don't know how to deal with an GWF.They attack him during unstoppable".That is actually one of the best examples of GWfs ignorance about how their OP class is.Good geared /experienced GWFs with good determination management can activate unstoppable every 9-12 secs.And then go into a 6 sec god mode of 75-100% DR and cc immunity ,but ok, somehow you have to avoid them all that time ,even if they have sprint and ranged prones/stuns.That means if a GF fights a GWF for 40 secs the GWF will be in his godmode nealy half the time.So is it fair a class to be almost damage immune for half of the encounter?And the other not also has to survive but to kill him also?Ar you kidding?
Every non GWF that whenever sees this nonsense "don't attack us during Unstop" facepalms.Only GWFs are convinced by that argument and theseis ,cause they really have no clue how OP thier class is.
I could state more..but what is the point?GWFs learned to playing easy mode ,being unvulnerable,just clicking and facerolling.They will never accept the fact that all that time had a crunch to dominate.They are very few good GWF players.But they are a minority to the arrogant agressive ,bug roar abusing majority.
After mod4 GWfs will not be the major problem ,they will be a very good class still OP but manageable.HR/CWs will dominate.But the bad fame will hunt GWFs for months to come.GWFs OP and pvp trolling was a major factor in pvpers numerical decline.Anyway.
You are still the favored child of the devs family indeed.Do not worry.
You got improved MArk,
"they are boosting the duration of all the GWF's stuns, giving GWFs long-lasting stuns; 3 seconds base, divided by 1.2 for 20% Tenacity gives 2.5 seconds' worth of stunning time. "
plus the initial nerf to unstop was reversed.But still you complain.
I ll use a metaphor; You are not the child of Cryptic as any other class is.You are the spoiled bullying brat .That demands everything and consider natural to have everything.While the others must manage to get along with half of what you have.Yet this seems balanced and fair to you.
You were trolling pvp for nealry a year with OP broken builds (IV Sent) ,bugged powers(roar) unbelievable OP powers (IBS-takedawn) broken PVP armor sets(T1) and many others i cannot even remember.
Well karma is a *****.
Revenge is coming :P
Eat it up
Im going to chime in and just say what lots have said before. this is not proof of anything. GWFs have had it easy, and ALOT of GWFs these days do not even know other class mechanics because they just face-to-keyboard on live.
Other classes must learn the mechanics of other classes to beat them. I'm still shocked on live how some GWF can lose to a GF.
Though saying that, there does need to be some balancing issues or mod4 will be a mess. (Where are the TR changes?!?)
You mention homing missiles and then that Takedown has a slow animation, but neglect the fact that Takedown has a homing effect too, and that the *effect* fires before the animation is over, so it will often look like you dodged or avoided it, only for you to be rubberbanded back into position.
And now they are boosting the duration of all the GWF's stuns, giving GWFs long-lasting stuns; 3 seconds base, divided by 1.2 for 20% Tenacity gives 2.5 seconds' worth of stunning time.
You can also feat takedown for 7.5 second cool down, which means you are only out of stun every 4 seconds now. If you dodge the first one , another is coming in 7 seconds. GWF are still complaining about lack of control...
Im going to chime in and just say what lots have said before. this is not proof of anything. GWFs have had it easy, and ALOT of GWFs these days do not even know other class mechanics because they just face-to-keyboard on live.
Other classes must learn the mechanics of other classes to beat them. I'm still shocked on live how some GWF can lose to a GF.
Though saying that, there does need to be some balancing issues or mod4 will be a mess. (Where are the TR changes?!?)
so your logic is this.
"GWF had it easy on live (but HR didn't have it more easier)
and on preview let HR/CW to have it easy, cause i am satisfied."
why should i struggle with my gwf when there are other classes who don't need to struggle to get a kill.
I have a GWF. Do you play any other class except GWF? It doesn't seem that way, based on your obvious lack of experience with how problematic GWFs are for other classes.
Read again, a said i got a lvl 60 CW. And i used to be 1st/ 2nd in PvP matches. Nice ranged class to nuke enemies from far. GWFs using takedown too recklessly were easy to kite. Just needed to slot gear with mobility and literally just bunnyhop around them, mixing it with teleports.
Deleted it just cause i'm now trying a HR and needed to free the slot. So yes, i test other classes in PvP as well. Read my signature, also. And i know very well how "problematic" a GWF can be. But let me tell you, most non-GWF players know nothing about the class. The proof is, you're requesting MORE NERFS on top of the existing nerfs.
Since you have a GWF, can you please post a video of you doing skillful stuff on PTR with new GWF? Thanks. Show us the path, since my 1 year PvP experience is not enough.
I'm waiting you on preview. What is your toon name?
You can also feat takedown for 7.5 second cool down, which means you are only out of stun every 4 seconds now. If you dodge the first one , another is coming in 7 seconds. GWF are still complaining about lack of control...
That is destroyer tree feat. Did you test how squishy destroyers are on PTR right now? Test it please.
Also: while your takedowns are dodged, you take damage, since GWF have no immunity moves, you know that right? It does not even requires a dodge move to dodge takedown, just mobility and bunnyhopping. It can also go on a 3 seconds cooldown when dodged, just FYI, but this does not mean it reliable against good PvPers.
<can you show me a PvP video on PTR of a destroyer using takedown as a wonderful CC opening move and winning? Thanks. Or better, you yourself playing a GWF and testing it?
May be against pug scrubs. Who are the only ones saying these changes are "balanced". All the guys i talked to, included the ones in weed videos, pretty much agree that GWF is underpowered now.
Nope. A GF will always beat a GWF 1v1 in mod4, unless he's really undergeared or unskilled. A good GF will be able to compete with a HR and 2v1 GWFs. I see GFs on preview and they are beasts.
Pretty much now deal more damage than a GWF, with more defense, more HP and shield block.
But i see how most whiners just want GWFs "punished" cause the devs made them OP in the past (even though me, ayroux and many other GWFs posted countless times suggesting changes to balance the class).
Right now, my impression is CWs, TRs, GFs, can be mostly balanced. GFs and HRs seem to be a bit ahead of the other classes.
A lot behind now there is the GWF class (PvP).
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
That is destroyer tree feat. Did you test how squishy destroyers are on PTR right now? Test it please.
Also: while your takedowns are dodged, you take damage, since GWF have no immunity moves, you know that right? It does not even requires a dodge move to dodge takedown, just mobility and bunnyhopping. It can also go on a 3 seconds cooldown when dodged, just FYI, but this does not mean it reliable against good PvPers.
<can you show me a PvP video on PTR of a destroyer using takedown as a wonderful CC opening move and winning? Thanks. Or better, you yourself playing a GWF and testing it?
May be against pug scrubs. Who are the only ones saying these changes are "balanced". All the guys i talked to, included the ones in weed videos, pretty much agree that GWF is underpowered now.
The thing is, 'Pro PvPers' are also not the most credible ones to make 'Balance' suggestions.
For example, there have been 'Pro PvP' HRs in the Feedback thread that were, 3 or 4 days ago, all 'You barely notice Medicine, it isn't needed', and 2 days ago started having delusions of 'move it to trapper, as T2 Feat'.
Page 38 of that thread has a nice case of proof what those 'Medicine as T2 Trapper feat is Balanced' Pro PvPers REALLY seem to want.
Nope. A GF will always beat a GWF 1v1 in mod4, unless he's really undergeared or unskilled. A good GF will be able to compete with a HR and 2v1 GWFs. I see GFs on preview and they are beasts.
Pretty much now deal more damage than a GWF, with more defense, more HP and shield block.
But i see how most whiners just want GWFs "punished" cause the devs made them OP in the past (even though me, ayroux and many other GWFs posted countless times suggesting changes to balance the class).
Right now, my impression is CWs, TRs, GFs, can be mostly balanced. GFs and HRs seem to be a bit ahead of the other classes.
A lot behind now there is the GWF class (PvP).
I have yet to see a GF with equal or lesser gear beat a GWF on preview? I only see a Higher geared GF with 15 pots and Elixirs beat a GWF that spammed encounters on his guard and Supremacy of Steel, blowing cc on the GF while in CC immunity, that was in IV instead of SM.
Second ~To your comment, for the last year as GWF were in auto pilot with their Slaughter Train, I don't recall you posting anything about toning GWF down because they were to good? Yet after a year of riding it, now we, the rest of the player base that do not play GWF as our mains are whiners? If 1 Class is beating an entire populous of classes by a 90% win margin, I hardly think the opposing classes are whining!
Third ~ Most of your complaints are situational losses, that every class has... If a gf run to a node with a GWF and a CW on it guess what? We die! If theres a TR and a CW we die! There is a plethora of oh HAMSTER situations for ALL classes that give them almost a 0% chance to win in... This does not mean that class needs to be boosted to handle that situation, it means that class should call for back up or run to another node, or even help another class because the days of running in and soloing 2-3-4 players are over! This is a team game not a 1v1, and against certain classes you will have a harder time. HR's are too, very very powerful we will see how they turn out after balancing. But we already know how the GWF has been for many moons...
I tell the new guys that come into my shop all the time as they set up their service van, "Just because you have $10,000 in Snap On tools doesn't make you a Master Mechanic"! Knowledge trumps all... A High Gear Score doesn't equal skill!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I tell the new guys that come into my shop all the time as they set up their service van, "Just because you have $10,000 in Snap On tools doesn't make you a Master Mechanic"! Knowledge trumps all... A High Gear Score doesn't equal skill!
best saying ever
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Guys you really are kidding yourself here, plus no one of you even tested a GWF on preview, i am pretty sure. Tested it today, and i assure you i make no mistakes unless it's due to lag. 1 year PvP experience and the plain facts are:
HRs are way OP. A 13k HR with 1 artifact is already stronger than a geared 15-16k GWF with 3 purple artifacts. 1 HR, i report the line, asked a "2v1 with the 2 GWFs, i just want to see how OP HRs are". Just saying. This was a HR on preview. And it was me with my copied 15-16k GWF, and a 19k GWF. And he could tank BOTH.
Simple reason:
- The stun is a joke. It does not even stop a CW-HR-TR enough, just a little more than 1 second. Then he/ she's already evading. On the other side, all these classes have ways to PRONE you and DPS you ignoring deflect and defenses. GG devs.
- GWF survivability got a HGUE hit due to determination gain nerf. I got to lose 35-40% HP to have Unstoppable up 4 seconds. Talk about ruining a class mechanic. On top of the DR nerf on unstoppable.
- GWF DPS is nerfed to nothingness and sprint IS NOT "in line" with other classes dodges. Also, considering it's not a dodge but a gap closer. A CW has basically the same mobility with his fast teleports. But it's a ranged class with no need to close the gaps.
- HRs, CWs, TRs, all have powers that lock on target. It may lag, but most of your powers will land on a GWF like a homing missile.
Takedown, FLS, IBS, all are subject to lag and must aim correctly. Plus, IBS and takedown have horribly slow animation in comparison to how fast the other classes dodge. FLS stun IS NOT ENOUGH to let the GWF reach the enemy and land a takedown or any other hit.
Seriously guys: make a GWF and go show us a video of your skills using it on preview. I'm waiting for it. Please.
Well i was this HR and yes i know the frustration but lets wait for the changes HR will get some nerf not much but mybe not much is needed ,CW will to get some nerfs not much but mybe not much is needed.
Also GWF vs GF i think this is a fair figth and i know GWF can complite even if our determination build nerfed any t2 dungeon but gf simply cannot(he is awesome with pt and GWF have the second biggest single target brust). I can beat any GF witout any cc encounter (if he manage to bring me downt to 40% i deserv to be killes if i manage to bring him down to 30 % he is dead too) also i killed many gwf on prev the only one aganst i loose was laz but he is really good also he have nice sphere .
I dont say i am the best but i a m good at my main 1 year playing and still learning .
I have all class in the game also i have 3 type from each to see what they can do.
What i want is class balance mybe the next update can bring some .
Also i think the new stun duration will be enugh to land 1 ibs (but we will see i hope i have rigth).
From what i can say GWF sent isnt realy good in pvp dont try to focus on him its a lost cause .
The only thing i miss from GWF her at-will dps its really really low the second lowest.
Ofc the lowest have DC.
PS: i agree with 1 thing no one shoud have prone effect (only dalys shoud have it )
Second ~To your comment, for the last year as GWF were in auto pilot with their Slaughter Train, I don't recall you posting anything about toning GWF down because they were to good? Yet after a year of riding it, now we, the rest of the player base that do not play GWF as our mains are whiners? If 1 Class is beating an entire populous of classes by a 90% win margin, I hardly think the opposing classes are whining!
This made me laugh a lot. Me, ayroux and many other GWFs are posting suggestions about toning down the class since module 2. One of the most repeated was to change Determination gain to a % of HP loss to make tank builds go unstoppable less.
Also posted many times how Threat rush needed a fix. Exc...
If you are too lazy to search the forums, at least do not make assumptions, cause you know nothing at all.
Have been away for 2 months since module 3 release and noticed how the whining shifted from "TR and FLS are the source of GWF OPness" to "Roar is the source of OPness".
Also it's funny how the old whining was "GWF must have survivability- damage tradeoff", then it was fair and OK to nerf damage, survivability and CC all together.
Every class, now, have prones and immunity moves that grant them immunity to damage and CC. Guess which class is the only with no prones and no immunity moves? GWF. They get 15-30% DR at the cost of a big chunk of HPs. TESTED, it takes 50% of total HP to have a 30% DR unstoppable for 8 seconds. If this sounds balanced to you, then you must be terrible at playing your class...
@schweifer: hi mate. That was good practice. Today i was talking to another HR, pretty much said the same as you. We'll see what devs do. So far, we get to have 3 secs stuns in place of 2 second stuns, and the whiners are already...whining. I pretty much agree with you that prones should be removed for all, or each class must have 1 prone move to use in PvP.
Going to test more, also trying to upgrade stuff on preview to match those 18-19k guys testing there :P
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
This made me laugh a lot. Me, ayroux and many other GWFs are posting suggestions about toning down the class since module 2. One of the most repeated was to change Determination gain to a % of HP loss to make tank builds go unstoppable less.
Also posted many times how Threat rush needed a fix. Exc...
If you are too lazy to search the forums, at least do not make assumptions, cause you know nothing at all.
Have been away for 2 months since module 3 release and noticed how the whining shifted from "TR and FLS are the source of GWF OPness" to "Roar is the source of OPness".
Also it's funny how the old whining was "GWF must have survivability- damage tradeoff", then it was fair and OK to nerf damage, survivability and CC all together.
Every class, now, have prones and immunity moves that grant them immunity to damage and CC. Guess which class is the only with no prones and no immunity moves? GWF. They get 15-30% DR at the cost of a big chunk of HPs. TESTED, it takes 50% of total HP to have a 30% DR unstoppable for 8 seconds. If this sounds balanced to you, then you must be terrible at playing your class...
@schweifer: hi mate. That was good practice. Today i was talking to another HR, pretty much said the same as you. We'll see what devs do. So far, we get to have 3 secs stuns in place of 2 second stuns, and the whiners are already...whining. I pretty much agree with you that prones should be removed for all, or each class must have 1 prone move to use in PvP.
Going to test more, also trying to upgrade stuff on preview to match those 18-19k guys testing there :P
lol look on hr feedback see how posted the screenshots with 50-60% deflect HR how played "cy...." it was me
I just try to give true feedback on devs nothing more .
Current state of prev both HR and CW are too op "actual soo op even the worst player can win aganst other 5 class including GF ".
I aslo beat good mode with oppressor (my CW have 14.5 k GS vorpal HV no tenacity no stone no pvp boons ).
Gf got nice buffs but if 19-20 k GS GF with almost perfect build and play style loose aganst not soo experienced CW with no pvp gear then i cant call the poor guys OP.
I also know not all type of HR build is op actually HR arcery is still not soo viable in pvp as melee path but they are good as TR or GF or GWF but still better then SW and DC.
I think if devs look deeper into the balance they can see HR archer TR perma GF GWF(but i think gwf will need the buff from new patch ) desto are almost balanced .
Got a 1v1 today against a 14k GF (my toon still 15k like on live). Won, but the guy was not really able to turn the block fast enough like top-players do, so i was always able to sprint t his back and takedown-FLS-IBS. Also, FLS still prones on preview, while it will be a stun in the end. Which means i have to cut a big piece of IBS damage away.
Can't definetely say how things are. GFs seem to be able to dish out more damage than GWFs and tank more, but need more test.
About HRs and CWs...a HR was able to 2v1 me and weed and you were there. Even if i'm only 15k, weed was 19k GS...we nailed him multiple times but he could tank and heal back. May be different in domination since Healing Depression does not apply in open PvP. Yet, he could tank us both...
CWs seem to deal lots of damage AND tank a lot more. But again, i'd need to upgrade my toon from greaters to perfect and go up to better GS to have a clear indication of the real values.
Sure thing is, current state with no prones and 2 secs stuns is like GWF have no CC at all and can be proned. Other classes escape from our "stuns" very fast, take minimal damage and deal tons of DPS while being able to prone us. Funny to watch...
People are blind with rage, they can already taste the blood of the GWF..
Lets have a little comparison between the two fighters shall we. We take the GWF from LIVE, where its supposed to be OP and we look at the GF on Preview with buffs on. I used my own toons: 17K PVP IV Destroyer ( the usual STATs: ~38K HP, 7k power, 2.5K crit, ~2K ArmPen.. etc etc ) and 16.5 Conq SM GF
Simple dps test on the big prone immune bear in the Pass:
1) GWF LIVE - with full stacks of Destroyer + full stacks of D.Purpose + R.Madness + Mark + Greater PF = 13k non crit IBS and 27K crit IBS
2) GF PREVIEW - with full stacks of Reckless + Mark + ToI + ITF + G.Vorpal = 17K non crit Flourish and 31K crit Flourish
Who's the dps class now ? My new GF can totally decimate a single target while being super mobile ( ITF ) very hard ( full Profound set bonus , 40K HP ), prone happy and having super low cooldowns. Did you know that a bloody Knee Breaker on Preview does over 7K base damage? Thats more than my IBS base on LIVE. Devs justified the changes with GWF having too much burst damage with Takedown+IBS..well Im pretty sure my GF can do more single target damage with Bull + LS with just one ITF buff and his Mark..
When you talk balance then do balance. I love the new GF, the new GWF however will gather dust
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
People are blind with rage, they can already taste the blood of the GWF..
Lets have a little comparison between the two fighters shall we. We take the GWF from LIVE 17K PVP IV Destroyer to a 16.5 Conq SM GF
So your entire analysis is comparing a DPS specced GF with a DPS Paragon against a Tank specced GWF? Roll SM Destroyer and lets see those damages then?
You are using the Tank Paragon Iron Vanguard to compare damages?
gentlemancrush
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Jan 2013
Hey guys, we have taken a look at Iron Vanguard and Swordmaster and we wanted to make some changes to bring them more in line with their intended use. First, we are tuning back Iron Vanguard damage on Great Weapon Fighters so that it will line up with Guardian Fighter damage from the same powers. This allows the powers to be more focused on their utility and intent than on their damage, which didn't properly account for the difference in weapon damage when they were ported over. Second, we are improving Weapon Master's Strike and Flourish on both Guardian and Great Weapon Fighters to make them more attractive as damage options. Below are the changes for Great Weapon Fighters (to see the Guardian ones, check out their thread).
Great Weapon Fighter: Threatening Rush: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Frontline Surge: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Weaponmaster's Strike: This power now deals ~10% more damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Flourish: This power now deals ~15% more damage and stuns for 3 seconds (2 seconds on players).
We are continuing to look at the various changes and so far we are fairly happy with the choice to diversify the damage resistance into a tank bonus, but we want to get continued feedback on that from dungeon runs and PVP so we can better tune where it belongs.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
So your entire analysis is comparing a DPS specced GF with a DPS Paragon against a Tank specced GWF? Roll SM Destroyer and lets see those damages then?
You are using the Tank Paragon Iron Vanguard to compare damages?
gentlemancrush
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Join Date
Jan 2013
Hey guys, we have taken a look at Iron Vanguard and Swordmaster and we wanted to make some changes to bring them more in line with their intended use. First, we are tuning back Iron Vanguard damage on Great Weapon Fighters so that it will line up with Guardian Fighter damage from the same powers. This allows the powers to be more focused on their utility and intent than on their damage, which didn't properly account for the difference in weapon damage when they were ported over. Second, we are improving Weapon Master's Strike and Flourish on both Guardian and Great Weapon Fighters to make them more attractive as damage options. Below are the changes for Great Weapon Fighters (to see the Guardian ones, check out their thread).
Great Weapon Fighter: Threatening Rush: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Frontline Surge: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Weaponmaster's Strike: This power now deals ~10% more damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Flourish: This power now deals ~15% more damage and stuns for 3 seconds (2 seconds on players).
We are continuing to look at the various changes and so far we are fairly happy with the choice to diversify the damage resistance into a tank bonus, but we want to get continued feedback on that from dungeon runs and PVP so we can better tune where it belongs.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Dude, both my toons are PVP spec... you may be a good GF but leave the GWF comments to people who actually play the class. The IV Destroyer is the DPS GWF for PVP, no need to address your post any further.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited July 2014
I am now on prev if y want i can show y some tricks.
So your entire analysis is comparing a DPS specced GF with a DPS Paragon against a Tank specced GWF? Roll SM Destroyer and lets see those damages then?
You are using the Tank Paragon Iron Vanguard to compare damages?
gentlemancrush
gentlemancrush is offline
Systems Designer gentlemancrush's Avatar
Join Date
Jan 2013
Hey guys, we have taken a look at Iron Vanguard and Swordmaster and we wanted to make some changes to bring them more in line with their intended use. First, we are tuning back Iron Vanguard damage on Great Weapon Fighters so that it will line up with Guardian Fighter damage from the same powers. This allows the powers to be more focused on their utility and intent than on their damage, which didn't properly account for the difference in weapon damage when they were ported over. Second, we are improving Weapon Master's Strike and Flourish on both Guardian and Great Weapon Fighters to make them more attractive as damage options. Below are the changes for Great Weapon Fighters (to see the Guardian ones, check out their thread).
Great Weapon Fighter: Threatening Rush: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Frontline Surge: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Weaponmaster's Strike: This power now deals ~10% more damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Flourish: This power now deals ~15% more damage and stuns for 3 seconds (2 seconds on players).
We are continuing to look at the various changes and so far we are fairly happy with the choice to diversify the damage resistance into a tank bonus, but we want to get continued feedback on that from dungeon runs and PVP so we can better tune where it belongs.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
If you read what he wrote and the post you quoted (lol) from crush, you will notice that:
GWF mentioned is destroyer= DPS spec
Power tested: IBS--->not in the list of damage nerfs crush posted
If you read what you quote (lol) crush explain how they nerfed threat rush, frontline surge, and buffed WMS and flourish.
You read IBS in the list? No.
IBS damage is the same on IV or SM. And hits HARDER than flourish on GWF.
What emilemo found out with his tests is that a flourish on a GF now hits for more than a IBS on a GWF.
I'll quote emilemo again cause it fits you perfectly:
People are blind with rage, they can already taste the blood of the GWF..
Lets have a little comparison between the two fighters shall we. We take the GWF from LIVE, where its supposed to be OP and we look at the GF on Preview with buffs on. I used my own toons: 17K PVP IV Destroyer ( the usual STATs: ~38K HP, 7k power, 2.5K crit, ~2K ArmPen.. etc etc ) and 16.5 Conq SM GF
Simple dps test on the big prone immune bear in the Pass:
1) GWF LIVE - with full stacks of Destroyer + full stacks of D.Purpose + R.Madness + Mark + Greater PF = 13k non crit IBS and 27K crit IBS
2) GF PREVIEW - with full stacks of Reckless + Mark + ToI + ITF + G.Vorpal = 17K non crit Flourish and 31K crit Flourish
Who's the dps class now ? My new GF can totally decimate a single target while being super mobile ( ITF ) very hard ( full Profound set bonus , 40K HP ), prone happy and having super low cooldowns. Did you know that a bloody Knee Breaker on Preview does over 7K base damage? Thats more than my IBS base on LIVE. Devs justified the changes with GWF having too much burst damage with Takedown+IBS..well Im pretty sure my GF can do more single target damage with Bull + LS with just one ITF buff and his Mark..
When you talk balance then do balance. I love the new GF, the new GWF however will gather dust
the point is you may be able to do that damage but your sacraficing alot to slot ITF you wont have that encounter power as an attack also during a pvp match SM vs IV GF's i still am going to go IV without ITF on SM your not nearly mobile enough to get anywhere the loss of threatening rush is just to much.
and you cant compare using ITF because without it you would hit for way less dmg.
Can we have this thread cleansed of folks who only experience the GWF on the wrong edge of the sword please ? You can sugar coat it or try to deny it but it makes no difference. In MOD 4 a PVP GF will have more single target damage then a PVP GWF and that is a fact. Like I said I play both so Im happy for the GF, the other one tho is gettin' killed plain and simple.
I love a challenge but playing a GWF in Mod 4 will be like playing vs the House and you know what they say bout the House
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2wpeEXlNCE
and give me ur opinion and i will try to correct it. and will try to get more skill in that matter too. if u look in video HR blocked all my encounters way longer than my takedown , TR smoke bomb stun longer than that , CW icy terrain (single icy terrain) freezes longer than that . HR boar charge or whatever it is called also do prone , while GWF dont have any.
I can dodge takedown with sprint on live. Don't come and tell me you can't dodge it with a dodge immunity move. The "homing" effect is a follow up that is applied only at a certain range. Not like a marauder rush that teleports the HR right to the enemy and auto-hits, or a CW spell that lock on the enemy. With my old CW too i could avoid takedown just with some movement and bunnyhopping in circle. That's how much it's a "homing" move.
Also: just like Flourish, the fact it "follows" does not mean it connects. A slow animation gives a good player a way to time the immune dodge/ moves (that one move any class has, except GWFs) and make takedown/ flourish crush on immunity.
Pleas, talk about stuff you know.
Show us a video of your mightly skills as a GWF.
Also: 2 seconds stuns on PTR results in 1 second stun with enemies dodging away before you're there to get them. I explained it before. You tested it? No. You "theorycraft" about a class you don't even play, and pretend to know how it works.
Let me give you guys a news: your theorycrafting is all wrong. Go test stuff.
and 10% halfing or sun elf , and from wisdom, and maybe from artefact, and maybe maybe from class feats/feats and maybe maybe it won't matter even landing a hit it won't change nuthin ...
indeed this buid can be promising as u can add more power more damage... but the cooldowns are too big... so using those skills will lower the hp, and the time of those cooldowns makes the enemy to refill his hp, it's not viable with those cooldowns... but it's better as a support gwf and hope somethil will be changed with it.
Look at SW, it is a total free kill in PvP now. Same problems as GWF, sprint (no immunity frames) but without proper defense and unstoppable, worst and fewest CC sklls (1 prone from harrowstorm but which can be easily dodged even by walking with any class), no CC immunity skills. I don't know what devs think releasing class with so many fundamental problems. Warlock should be banned from PvP for now. I've played against 5 with my undergeared thaum CW and they die like flies. I was seriously shocked how bad warlocks are in PvP. So at least GWF won't be at the bottom
1.18k GWF ,that means a veteran player.Yet that veteran player does not have enough knowledge of his adversarries weaknesses.Misses ,attacking a GF while blocking ,attacking a GF during SoS.So how this veteran player for all this time dominated?You are all free to quess.He was facerolling ,has no tactics at all.His class was so OP that did not needed any tactic.Just continous clicking.Now that things changed he is asking for "buffs to my weak class".
2. Some mentioned and the OP that a similar gs GF is actually lower in gs.He has a gs inflation some said.Wake up call:RA feat does not affect gs since months.
3."Other classes lock on target while GWF don't".This is a lie.Dozens of pvpers and forumers can attest that nearly ALL GWF powers lock on target just with activating them.The GWF opponent might be faster PC game player and more eye hand coordinated:No luck the IBS/Takedawn will land even if you manage to get out of its way.
4."I am a melee fighter i can't reached them".No GWF is not a pure melee fighter.He has many ranged powers(roar,takedawn.fls,TR etc...) that keeping some dinstance from a GWF is pointless.You are already in his reach.
5."Sprint is lacking compated to other classes".Sprint is a superb ability .many Gf/Trs got in a frustrated melee with a GWF ,manage with perfect timing and gameplay to get the GWf at 20% health.At that time GWF sprints ,with a speed of something between a 50% and a 80% mount,just to use a potion and return refreshed.No other class can do that.
6."Our prones were nerfed'.With GF prones.And you got monumental increases in stuns.Some classes do not have either.yet they continue to play and excell.
7."Other classes don't know how to deal with an GWF.They attack him during unstoppable".That is actually one of the best examples of GWfs ignorance about how their OP class is.Good geared /experienced GWFs with good determination management can activate unstoppable every 9-12 secs.And then go into a 6 sec god mode of 75-100% DR and cc immunity ,but ok, somehow you have to avoid them all that time ,even if they have sprint and ranged prones/stuns.That means if a GF fights a GWF for 40 secs the GWF will be in his godmode nealy half the time.So is it fair a class to be almost damage immune for half of the encounter?And the other not also has to survive but to kill him also?Ar you kidding?
Every non GWF that whenever sees this nonsense "don't attack us during Unstop" facepalms.Only GWFs are convinced by that argument and theseis ,cause they really have no clue how OP thier class is.
I could state more..but what is the point?GWFs learned to playing easy mode ,being unvulnerable,just clicking and facerolling.They will never accept the fact that all that time had a crunch to dominate.They are very few good GWF players.But they are a minority to the arrogant agressive ,bug roar abusing majority.
After mod4 GWfs will not be the major problem ,they will be a very good class still OP but manageable.HR/CWs will dominate.But the bad fame will hunt GWFs for months to come.GWFs OP and pvp trolling was a major factor in pvpers numerical decline.Anyway.
You are still the favored child of the devs family indeed.Do not worry.
You got improved MArk,
"they are boosting the duration of all the GWF's stuns, giving GWFs long-lasting stuns; 3 seconds base, divided by 1.2 for 20% Tenacity gives 2.5 seconds' worth of stunning time. "
plus the initial nerf to unstop was reversed.But still you complain.
I ll use a metaphor; You are not the child of Cryptic as any other class is.You are the spoiled bullying brat .That demands everything and consider natural to have everything.While the others must manage to get along with half of what you have.Yet this seems balanced and fair to you.
You were trolling pvp for nealry a year with OP broken builds (IV Sent) ,bugged powers(roar) unbelievable OP powers (IBS-takedawn) broken PVP armor sets(T1) and many others i cannot even remember.
Well karma is a *****.
Revenge is coming :P
Eat it up
Other classes must learn the mechanics of other classes to beat them. I'm still shocked on live how some GWF can lose to a GF.
Though saying that, there does need to be some balancing issues or mod4 will be a mess. (Where are the TR changes?!?)
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
You can also feat takedown for 7.5 second cool down, which means you are only out of stun every 4 seconds now. If you dodge the first one , another is coming in 7 seconds. GWF are still complaining about lack of control...
so your logic is this.
"GWF had it easy on live (but HR didn't have it more easier)
and on preview let HR/CW to have it easy, cause i am satisfied."
why should i struggle with my gwf when there are other classes who don't need to struggle to get a kill.
Read again, a said i got a lvl 60 CW. And i used to be 1st/ 2nd in PvP matches. Nice ranged class to nuke enemies from far. GWFs using takedown too recklessly were easy to kite. Just needed to slot gear with mobility and literally just bunnyhop around them, mixing it with teleports.
Deleted it just cause i'm now trying a HR and needed to free the slot. So yes, i test other classes in PvP as well. Read my signature, also. And i know very well how "problematic" a GWF can be. But let me tell you, most non-GWF players know nothing about the class. The proof is, you're requesting MORE NERFS on top of the existing nerfs.
Since you have a GWF, can you please post a video of you doing skillful stuff on PTR with new GWF? Thanks. Show us the path, since my 1 year PvP experience is not enough.
I'm waiting you on preview. What is your toon name?
That is destroyer tree feat. Did you test how squishy destroyers are on PTR right now? Test it please.
Also: while your takedowns are dodged, you take damage, since GWF have no immunity moves, you know that right? It does not even requires a dodge move to dodge takedown, just mobility and bunnyhopping. It can also go on a 3 seconds cooldown when dodged, just FYI, but this does not mean it reliable against good PvPers.
<can you show me a PvP video on PTR of a destroyer using takedown as a wonderful CC opening move and winning? Thanks. Or better, you yourself playing a GWF and testing it?
May be against pug scrubs. Who are the only ones saying these changes are "balanced". All the guys i talked to, included the ones in weed videos, pretty much agree that GWF is underpowered now.
Nope. A GF will always beat a GWF 1v1 in mod4, unless he's really undergeared or unskilled. A good GF will be able to compete with a HR and 2v1 GWFs. I see GFs on preview and they are beasts.
Pretty much now deal more damage than a GWF, with more defense, more HP and shield block.
But i see how most whiners just want GWFs "punished" cause the devs made them OP in the past (even though me, ayroux and many other GWFs posted countless times suggesting changes to balance the class).
Right now, my impression is CWs, TRs, GFs, can be mostly balanced. GFs and HRs seem to be a bit ahead of the other classes.
A lot behind now there is the GWF class (PvP).
The thing is, 'Pro PvPers' are also not the most credible ones to make 'Balance' suggestions.
For example, there have been 'Pro PvP' HRs in the Feedback thread that were, 3 or 4 days ago, all 'You barely notice Medicine, it isn't needed', and 2 days ago started having delusions of 'move it to trapper, as T2 Feat'.
Page 38 of that thread has a nice case of proof what those 'Medicine as T2 Trapper feat is Balanced' Pro PvPers REALLY seem to want.
I have yet to see a GF with equal or lesser gear beat a GWF on preview? I only see a Higher geared GF with 15 pots and Elixirs beat a GWF that spammed encounters on his guard and Supremacy of Steel, blowing cc on the GF while in CC immunity, that was in IV instead of SM.
Second ~To your comment, for the last year as GWF were in auto pilot with their Slaughter Train, I don't recall you posting anything about toning GWF down because they were to good? Yet after a year of riding it, now we, the rest of the player base that do not play GWF as our mains are whiners? If 1 Class is beating an entire populous of classes by a 90% win margin, I hardly think the opposing classes are whining!
Third ~ Most of your complaints are situational losses, that every class has... If a gf run to a node with a GWF and a CW on it guess what? We die! If theres a TR and a CW we die! There is a plethora of oh HAMSTER situations for ALL classes that give them almost a 0% chance to win in... This does not mean that class needs to be boosted to handle that situation, it means that class should call for back up or run to another node, or even help another class because the days of running in and soloing 2-3-4 players are over! This is a team game not a 1v1, and against certain classes you will have a harder time. HR's are too, very very powerful we will see how they turn out after balancing. But we already know how the GWF has been for many moons...
I tell the new guys that come into my shop all the time as they set up their service van, "Just because you have $10,000 in Snap On tools doesn't make you a Master Mechanic"! Knowledge trumps all... A High Gear Score doesn't equal skill!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Well i was this HR and yes i know the frustration but lets wait for the changes HR will get some nerf not much but mybe not much is needed ,CW will to get some nerfs not much but mybe not much is needed.
Also GWF vs GF i think this is a fair figth and i know GWF can complite even if our determination build nerfed any t2 dungeon but gf simply cannot(he is awesome with pt and GWF have the second biggest single target brust). I can beat any GF witout any cc encounter (if he manage to bring me downt to 40% i deserv to be killes if i manage to bring him down to 30 % he is dead too) also i killed many gwf on prev the only one aganst i loose was laz but he is really good also he have nice sphere
I dont say i am the best but i a m good at my main 1 year playing and still learning
I have all class in the game also i have 3 type from each to see what they can do.
What i want is class balance mybe the next update can bring some .
Also i think the new stun duration will be enugh to land 1 ibs (but we will see i hope i have rigth).
From what i can say GWF sent isnt realy good in pvp dont try to focus on him its a lost cause .
The only thing i miss from GWF her at-will dps its really really low the second lowest.
Ofc the lowest have DC.
PS: i agree with 1 thing no one shoud have prone effect (only dalys shoud have it )
This made me laugh a lot. Me, ayroux and many other GWFs are posting suggestions about toning down the class since module 2. One of the most repeated was to change Determination gain to a % of HP loss to make tank builds go unstoppable less.
Also posted many times how Threat rush needed a fix. Exc...
If you are too lazy to search the forums, at least do not make assumptions, cause you know nothing at all.
Have been away for 2 months since module 3 release and noticed how the whining shifted from "TR and FLS are the source of GWF OPness" to "Roar is the source of OPness".
Also it's funny how the old whining was "GWF must have survivability- damage tradeoff", then it was fair and OK to nerf damage, survivability and CC all together.
Every class, now, have prones and immunity moves that grant them immunity to damage and CC. Guess which class is the only with no prones and no immunity moves? GWF. They get 15-30% DR at the cost of a big chunk of HPs. TESTED, it takes 50% of total HP to have a 30% DR unstoppable for 8 seconds. If this sounds balanced to you, then you must be terrible at playing your class...
@schweifer: hi mate. That was good practice. Today i was talking to another HR, pretty much said the same as you. We'll see what devs do. So far, we get to have 3 secs stuns in place of 2 second stuns, and the whiners are already...whining. I pretty much agree with you that prones should be removed for all, or each class must have 1 prone move to use in PvP.
Going to test more, also trying to upgrade stuff on preview to match those 18-19k guys testing there :P
lol look on hr feedback see how posted the screenshots with 50-60% deflect HR how played "cy...." it was me
I just try to give true feedback on devs nothing more .
Current state of prev both HR and CW are too op "actual soo op even the worst player can win aganst other 5 class including GF ".
I aslo beat good mode with oppressor (my CW have 14.5 k GS vorpal HV no tenacity no stone no pvp boons ).
Gf got nice buffs but if 19-20 k GS GF with almost perfect build and play style loose aganst not soo experienced CW with no pvp gear then i cant call the poor guys OP.
I also know not all type of HR build is op actually HR arcery is still not soo viable in pvp as melee path but they are good as TR or GF or GWF but still better then SW and DC.
I think if devs look deeper into the balance they can see HR archer TR perma GF GWF(but i think gwf will need the buff from new patch ) desto are almost balanced .
Can't definetely say how things are. GFs seem to be able to dish out more damage than GWFs and tank more, but need more test.
About HRs and CWs...a HR was able to 2v1 me and weed and you were there. Even if i'm only 15k, weed was 19k GS...we nailed him multiple times but he could tank and heal back. May be different in domination since Healing Depression does not apply in open PvP. Yet, he could tank us both...
CWs seem to deal lots of damage AND tank a lot more. But again, i'd need to upgrade my toon from greaters to perfect and go up to better GS to have a clear indication of the real values.
Sure thing is, current state with no prones and 2 secs stuns is like GWF have no CC at all and can be proned. Other classes escape from our "stuns" very fast, take minimal damage and deal tons of DPS while being able to prone us. Funny to watch...
Lets have a little comparison between the two fighters shall we. We take the GWF from LIVE, where its supposed to be OP and we look at the GF on Preview with buffs on. I used my own toons: 17K PVP IV Destroyer ( the usual STATs: ~38K HP, 7k power, 2.5K crit, ~2K ArmPen.. etc etc ) and 16.5 Conq SM GF
Simple dps test on the big prone immune bear in the Pass:
1) GWF LIVE - with full stacks of Destroyer + full stacks of D.Purpose + R.Madness + Mark + Greater PF = 13k non crit IBS and 27K crit IBS
2) GF PREVIEW - with full stacks of Reckless + Mark + ToI + ITF + G.Vorpal = 17K non crit Flourish and 31K crit Flourish
Who's the dps class now ? My new GF can totally decimate a single target while being super mobile ( ITF ) very hard ( full Profound set bonus , 40K HP ), prone happy and having super low cooldowns. Did you know that a bloody Knee Breaker on Preview does over 7K base damage? Thats more than my IBS base on LIVE. Devs justified the changes with GWF having too much burst damage with Takedown+IBS..well Im pretty sure my GF can do more single target damage with Bull + LS with just one ITF buff and his Mark..
When you talk balance then do balance. I love the new GF, the new GWF however will gather dust
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Was obvious, +58% damages ... lol.
I'll explain something.
GWF base damages ratio are bad.
GF base damages ratio are really good.
So, the more the weapon deals damages, the more the high ratios are usefull.
If you have 2:1 ratio between Weapon:EncounterPower for a GWF, if your weapon (like legendary artifact) has +50 more dmgs, it'll deal +100 damages.
If you have a 5:1 ratio between Weapon:EncounterPower for a GF, if your weapon has +50 more dmgs, it'll deal +250 damages.
So your entire analysis is comparing a DPS specced GF with a DPS Paragon against a Tank specced GWF? Roll SM Destroyer and lets see those damages then?
You are using the Tank Paragon Iron Vanguard to compare damages?
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692681-Official-Feedback-Thread-Great-Weapon-Fighter-Changes&p=8242281&viewfull=1#post8242281
gentlemancrush
gentlemancrush is offline
Systems Designer gentlemancrush's Avatar
Join Date
Jan 2013
Hey guys, we have taken a look at Iron Vanguard and Swordmaster and we wanted to make some changes to bring them more in line with their intended use. First, we are tuning back Iron Vanguard damage on Great Weapon Fighters so that it will line up with Guardian Fighter damage from the same powers. This allows the powers to be more focused on their utility and intent than on their damage, which didn't properly account for the difference in weapon damage when they were ported over. Second, we are improving Weapon Master's Strike and Flourish on both Guardian and Great Weapon Fighters to make them more attractive as damage options. Below are the changes for Great Weapon Fighters (to see the Guardian ones, check out their thread).
Great Weapon Fighter: Threatening Rush: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Frontline Surge: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Weaponmaster's Strike: This power now deals ~10% more damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Flourish: This power now deals ~15% more damage and stuns for 3 seconds (2 seconds on players).
We are continuing to look at the various changes and so far we are fairly happy with the choice to diversify the damage resistance into a tank bonus, but we want to get continued feedback on that from dungeon runs and PVP so we can better tune where it belongs.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Dude, both my toons are PVP spec... you may be a good GF but leave the GWF comments to people who actually play the class. The IV Destroyer is the DPS GWF for PVP, no need to address your post any further.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
If you read what he wrote and the post you quoted (lol) from crush, you will notice that:
GWF mentioned is destroyer= DPS spec
Power tested: IBS--->not in the list of damage nerfs crush posted
If you read what you quote (lol) crush explain how they nerfed threat rush, frontline surge, and buffed WMS and flourish.
You read IBS in the list? No.
IBS damage is the same on IV or SM. And hits HARDER than flourish on GWF.
What emilemo found out with his tests is that a flourish on a GF now hits for more than a IBS on a GWF.
I'll quote emilemo again cause it fits you perfectly:
Read the stuff you comment...
the point is you may be able to do that damage but your sacraficing alot to slot ITF you wont have that encounter power as an attack also during a pvp match SM vs IV GF's i still am going to go IV without ITF on SM your not nearly mobile enough to get anywhere the loss of threatening rush is just to much.
and you cant compare using ITF because without it you would hit for way less dmg.
I love a challenge but playing a GWF in Mod 4 will be like playing vs the House and you know what they say bout the House
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.