Whisperknife also need some love, more cloud of steel charges (12 seems about right)
Vengeance's pursuit needs to get buffed up to be useful. Impact shot needs to be buffed, at least for whisperknife.
Also, being hit outside of stealth shouldn't deplete or stop filling the stealth meter, only being hit when in stealth should deplete it.
I'd personally like to see the last 4-5 TR nerfs rolled back, back to the point that single target DPS leading glass cannon builds (ahem, what a striker class is supposed to be and already is in virtually every other MMO on the planet) were once again not only viable, but popular with PVE dungeon parties. Right now, no one wants a TR for CN/VT/MC/etc.
Un-nerf duelist's flurry (so that the flurry is not interruptable again), impact shot (for ranged support), roll back the Lurker's Assault nerf at least a bit (15%/30%/45% extra damage would be a good compromise), give us back our missing COS knives, etc, and by all that is holy stop with the ninja nerfing/gimping (ahem, new DF animation on preview). Making smoke bomb into a poison gas cloud bomb (good idea Rayrdan!) would be great as well. Those powers/feats/skills that no one is using? There is a reason why. They need buffs.
Also, the other paragon path that only .1% of the TR population is even using (Whisperknife) could obviously use some serious love.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Oh , i know whats wrong in here ,when you're on AB side some times there are adventurers that have like 3 times more hp and do more damage than regular adventurers although when you're on TT side you won't find this buffed mobs , was long time since i did those dailys so i had forgotten about that.
It's not only adventurers. Some HE show the same pattern. I often do Marauding Barbarians to get spears for the friendly giant quest. Most of the times the mobs have a certain difficulty, but sometimes they clearly have more HP (at least double, probably more) and hit for far more damage. But the encounter is listed exacted like the other one across the street which is three times easier.
And sometimes it happens that one wave is made of tough monsters and the other by weak ones within the same encounter.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Please DON'T cripple the TR's ROLE anymore.
Already we lost nearly all what made a rogue roguish, no climbing, disguise, tumbling and jumping, no Setting and irrelevant disarming of traps, no pickpockes or looting bonus, no noticable backstabbing, no better trading, no appraisal, none of all the nice stuff which make many of us prefere the rogue to other classes in P&P , ...stealth is about the ONLY Trademark skill left and the rest isn't even ninja/asasin-like, but just some swashbuckler or duellist...
...and don't even think about nerfing the combat part - boring and weak as it is, it all that keeps us some few slots in dungeon runs.
(Yes, it IS HARD to get invited and not kicked as a TR, don't make it more so - there are people out there PAYING to get invited into a party, PLEASE don't make this standard for TRs.)
I've got a question. Did you read the rest of my message after I said something about permastealth?
Now, this is disturbing...the best PvE at-will is getting ninja nerfed constantly.
Since the m1 went live I'm noticing that with some random patch/update comes a small ninja change to that at-will or other powers (e.g SE). Not exactly a nerf but jumping using that one is getting more and more difficult and I am not talking about rubberbanding that usually is a reason. It seems they want us rogues to use to attack the target that doesn't move at all -_-
Yeah, I recently went through the patch notes forum and found every TR nerf/change I could find, and only found the first DF and first SE nerf actually listed in patch notes. Possible I missed a thread since this forum gives no useful indication that you've read an old thread.
It's disgusting. They don't listen to us TR players at all. Just nerf nerf nerf constantly and oh by the way have some more nerfs. Have some NINJA nerfs like DF no longer ignoring CC on third hit! Teeheehee!
Where is my bag of marbles? My banana peel? I'd take a 20% reduction in weapon damage if I had any fun utility on my TR. TR is pretty much a safe GWF with miserably lower DPS that offers NOTHING else to the team.
My opinion is that stealth should last infinitely until broken by an at-will or encounter. Then, please just remove Shadow Strike, Impact Shot and Lashing Blade and GIVE ME MY BAG OF MARBLES AND BANANA PEEL, reduce deft strike and Vengeance's Pursuit recharge to 5 seconds.
TRs should be all over the fight causing havoc with traps and tricks. Not doing 5 figure damage and then running for their lives.
You didn't announce any changes on DC and TR. Will those classes receive balancing changes in M4 or the near future?
There aren’t any changes for the classes coming for M4. We had a lot of changes lined up for this expansion and wanted to give the classes we're making changes to the due diligence they deserved. The DC and TR will, however, be getting an update sometime after M4.
Whoops.
Please go back to the original animation. Be true to your own words. Do all the balancing all at once.
Nerfing our biggest source of dps (via its useability) without any other compromise is a kick in the teeth. (again)
Just tested DF on test and its horrid. That 2nd hit hitch it painful. So much for this....
Whoops.
Please go back to the original animation. Be true to your own words. Do all the balancing all at once.
Nerfing our biggest source of dps (via its useability) without any other compromise is a kick in the teeth. (again)
-_______________________________________-
This upsets me really. Wish I could go and see how bad it is now. Can anyone explain how exactly was it screwed? No more CC immunity on 3rd hit?
Between the second hit abd the flurry, the tr goes full re..tard and stop halfway the animation. Like wtf am i doing? Do i really need to try to actually do damages?
Just tested out Duelist's Flurry on the preview shard.
It doesn't seem to be effected too much. The third animation is definitely kinda awkward.
Distance is normal, might be slightly less than usual, I didn't test it out completely & thoroughly- just quick.
Between the second hit abd the flurry, the tr goes full re..tard and stop halfway the animation. Like wtf am i doing? Do i really need to try to actually do damages?
Some random rogue:
Okay I am gonna do DF combo!
*does the first hit*
*hits the target with the second strike*
*stops for a second and takes a deep breath*
*starts furiously hitting an enemy with the flurry*
no. it should work like strenght which gives 1% for every point in it.
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aviracaineMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited July 2014
If you ask me? Rogues need Resistance Mitigated added to one of the secondary ability score.
It's bull**** how a striker class has to invest more stat points in armor pen to reach the sweet spot when a god**** tank class gets it for free. And why not? GWFs and HRs have it too. This will also force people to choose between Int and one of the -currently-worthless- secondary ability scores; which imo will mitigate the perma-stealth problem to some degree.
Edit: Oh and DF needs to go back to it's closed beta state where you actually needed a pair of braincells and timing to get the most out of it AND you were rewarded for it back then if you nailed it.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If you ask me? Rogues need Resistance Mitigated added to one of the secondary ability score.
It's bull**** how a striker class has to invest more stat points in armor pen to reach the sweet spot when a god**** tank class gets it for free. And why not? GWFs and HRs have it too. This will also force people to choose between Int and one of the -currently-worthless- secondary ability scores; which imo will mitigate the perma-stealth problem to some degree.
Edit: Oh and DF needs to go back to it's closed beta state where you actually needed a pair of braincells and timing to get the most out of it AND you were rewarded for it back then if you nailed it.
Honestly you are 100% right on this. In fact for GWF its one of the things that makes it hard to balance that class. CON give both the best defensive stat (HP) and it gives the best offensive states (AP). Make the tankiess class in the game eat through any other class's DR. I think it should be on Strength for TR. That way you can have high damage or high recovery.
If you ask me? Rogues need Resistance Mitigated added to one of the secondary ability score.
It's bull**** how a striker class has to invest more stat points in armor pen to reach the sweet spot when a god**** tank class gets it for free. And why not? GWFs and HRs have it too. This will also force people to choose between Int and one of the -currently-worthless- secondary ability scores; which imo will mitigate the perma-stealth problem to some degree.
Edit: Oh and DF needs to go back to it's closed beta state where you actually needed a pair of braincells and timing to get the most out of it AND you were rewarded for it back then if you nailed it.
Because someone up there likes Drizzt'Do Urden and Wulfgar more than an image of Artemis Entreri.
At least I feel like it is so. I also don't like the ammount of bonus Crit Severity GWF has and IMO it is one of those things that makes them deal so much damage even with their tanky builds.
Ooh I didn't knew that Artemis Entreri guy, I have a new DnD favorite char
I'm still confident we'll get a proper class change after Mod 4, I hope they get TRs closer to what a trickster rogue means to many of us. To me, a TR is a class that has many useful abilities to use against his opponents, stealth, poison, teleporting near the target, escape to the shadows, and CCs. In PVP it's class that appears out of nowhere, has some strong burst damage and then can escape quickly before getting caught.
Not someone who is in stealth 90% of the time doing miserable damage.
I have basically quit the game at the moment but I come back occasionally just to see what the status of the Preview module looks like.
I want to put it out there that TR and GF are both in the 'reroll' category for PvE. It is simply not value added to ever bring either of these classes.
That needs to change, but frankly I do not believe it ever will. Permastealth is also patently wrong in PvE, but outside of it's ability to solo various dungeons by itself the class fails on pretty much every level. Unpredictable single-target DoT is useless in PvE content, and even then it is functionally less damage per second than virtually anything else you care to throw out on virtually any class outside of perhaps the GF and DC.
Basically, this is the worst Rogue implementation out of any D&D franchise I have ever seen. It is a one trick pony class, and the one trick it can do encourages you to never play with a team under any circumstances.
Kudos, Cryptic.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Yeah, gotta agree with the 'why the hell don't our stats give us anything' people. You're right, the A.Pen on CON is disgusting and overloading and part of why GWF is so insane and able to stack so much power. Swashbuckling Captain set for TR doesn't have any Apen at all, leaving you to get to 24% mitigation for PvE through your accessories/enchants/augment. You can do it, sure, but at the cost of most of your enchantment slots, leaving power you aren't stacking. Joy.
Meanwhile GWF doesn't even really have to think about it, because baked in to one of their best stats.
While TR with its long cooldowns benefits from INT even if you don't permastealth but has different secondaries, one of which is meh and broken(CHA) and the other of which, while good, also doesn't give you anything extra and has a boost feat that's buried in the fourth heroic tier where you can't take it unless you give up a stealth extender feat.
Comments
look at this animation of the third swing. jumping while duelist is getting more diffucult and with less range
Vengeance's pursuit needs to get buffed up to be useful. Impact shot needs to be buffed, at least for whisperknife.
Also, being hit outside of stealth shouldn't deplete or stop filling the stealth meter, only being hit when in stealth should deplete it.
Un-nerf duelist's flurry (so that the flurry is not interruptable again), impact shot (for ranged support), roll back the Lurker's Assault nerf at least a bit (15%/30%/45% extra damage would be a good compromise), give us back our missing COS knives, etc, and by all that is holy stop with the ninja nerfing/gimping (ahem, new DF animation on preview). Making smoke bomb into a poison gas cloud bomb (good idea Rayrdan!) would be great as well. Those powers/feats/skills that no one is using? There is a reason why. They need buffs.
Also, the other paragon path that only .1% of the TR population is even using (Whisperknife) could obviously use some serious love.
It's not only adventurers. Some HE show the same pattern. I often do Marauding Barbarians to get spears for the friendly giant quest. Most of the times the mobs have a certain difficulty, but sometimes they clearly have more HP (at least double, probably more) and hit for far more damage. But the encounter is listed exacted like the other one across the street which is three times easier.
And sometimes it happens that one wave is made of tough monsters and the other by weak ones within the same encounter.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I've got a question. Did you read the rest of my message after I said something about permastealth? Now, this is disturbing...the best PvE at-will is getting ninja nerfed constantly.
Since the m1 went live I'm noticing that with some random patch/update comes a small ninja change to that at-will or other powers (e.g SE). Not exactly a nerf but jumping using that one is getting more and more difficult and I am not talking about rubberbanding that usually is a reason. It seems they want us rogues to use to attack the target that doesn't move at all -_-
WTB Class Reroll please
It's disgusting. They don't listen to us TR players at all. Just nerf nerf nerf constantly and oh by the way have some more nerfs. Have some NINJA nerfs like DF no longer ignoring CC on third hit! Teeheehee!
Just... Stop already.
Where is my bag of marbles? My banana peel? I'd take a 20% reduction in weapon damage if I had any fun utility on my TR. TR is pretty much a safe GWF with miserably lower DPS that offers NOTHING else to the team.
My opinion is that stealth should last infinitely until broken by an at-will or encounter. Then, please just remove Shadow Strike, Impact Shot and Lashing Blade and GIVE ME MY BAG OF MARBLES AND BANANA PEEL, reduce deft strike and Vengeance's Pursuit recharge to 5 seconds.
TRs should be all over the fight causing havoc with traps and tricks. Not doing 5 figure damage and then running for their lives.
Whoops.
Please go back to the original animation. Be true to your own words. Do all the balancing all at once.
Nerfing our biggest source of dps (via its useability) without any other compromise is a kick in the teeth. (again)
10 points in charisma give you 1 per cent bonus damage -.-
-_______________________________________-
This upsets me really. Wish I could go and see how bad it is now. Can anyone explain how exactly was it screwed? No more CC immunity on 3rd hit?
WTB Class Reroll please
It doesn't seem to be effected too much. The third animation is definitely kinda awkward.
Distance is normal, might be slightly less than usual, I didn't test it out completely & thoroughly- just quick.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
Okay I am gonna do DF combo!
*does the first hit*
*hits the target with the second strike*
*stops for a second and takes a deep breath*
*starts furiously hitting an enemy with the flurry*
WTB Class Reroll please
every stat at 10 gives 1% in thier stat benefit.
no. it should work like strenght which gives 1% for every point in it.
It's bull**** how a striker class has to invest more stat points in armor pen to reach the sweet spot when a god**** tank class gets it for free. And why not? GWFs and HRs have it too. This will also force people to choose between Int and one of the -currently-worthless- secondary ability scores; which imo will mitigate the perma-stealth problem to some degree.
Edit: Oh and DF needs to go back to it's closed beta state where you actually needed a pair of braincells and timing to get the most out of it AND you were rewarded for it back then if you nailed it.
Thats what it does. At least mines seem to. Gives 1% for every point in it passed 10.
No charisma is bugged at 20 points you only have 1 more per cent bonus damage
Oh really
http://oi62.tinypic.com/28aklcz.jpg
Went to preview server to respect to 20 CHA
http://oi62.tinypic.com/3525ieh.jpg
Honestly you are 100% right on this. In fact for GWF its one of the things that makes it hard to balance that class. CON give both the best defensive stat (HP) and it gives the best offensive states (AP). Make the tankiess class in the game eat through any other class's DR. I think it should be on Strength for TR. That way you can have high damage or high recovery.
Because someone up there likes Drizzt'Do Urden and Wulfgar more than an image of Artemis Entreri.
At least I feel like it is so. I also don't like the ammount of bonus Crit Severity GWF has and IMO it is one of those things that makes them deal so much damage even with their tanky builds.
WTB Class Reroll please
I'm still confident we'll get a proper class change after Mod 4, I hope they get TRs closer to what a trickster rogue means to many of us. To me, a TR is a class that has many useful abilities to use against his opponents, stealth, poison, teleporting near the target, escape to the shadows, and CCs. In PVP it's class that appears out of nowhere, has some strong burst damage and then can escape quickly before getting caught.
Not someone who is in stealth 90% of the time doing miserable damage.
I want to put it out there that TR and GF are both in the 'reroll' category for PvE. It is simply not value added to ever bring either of these classes.
That needs to change, but frankly I do not believe it ever will. Permastealth is also patently wrong in PvE, but outside of it's ability to solo various dungeons by itself the class fails on pretty much every level. Unpredictable single-target DoT is useless in PvE content, and even then it is functionally less damage per second than virtually anything else you care to throw out on virtually any class outside of perhaps the GF and DC.
Basically, this is the worst Rogue implementation out of any D&D franchise I have ever seen. It is a one trick pony class, and the one trick it can do encourages you to never play with a team under any circumstances.
Kudos, Cryptic.
Meanwhile GWF doesn't even really have to think about it, because baked in to one of their best stats.
While TR with its long cooldowns benefits from INT even if you don't permastealth but has different secondaries, one of which is meh and broken(CHA) and the other of which, while good, also doesn't give you anything extra and has a boost feat that's buried in the fourth heroic tier where you can't take it unless you give up a stealth extender feat.
Sigh.