In PvP Warlock wil be just fodder because without immunity frames or really high dmg reduction or/and deflection, many CC skills (probably the worst class in this department also) it will be ultra vulnerable to burst damage. I don't see any other class having problems with Warlock as it is.
This. As it stands now, the Warlock is simply not PvP viable.
No Defence
No Deflect
No Dodge
No CC
No CC Breaker
Has to out-heal incoming damage while under Healing Depression
This. As it stands now, the Warlock is simply not PvP viable.
No Defence
No Deflect
No Dodge
No CC
No CC Breaker
Has to out-heal incoming damage while under Healing Depression
It's a free kill to any other class.
100% agree
The only defense is +2% LS from heroic feat and +2% LS for 1 sec untill the puppet die from one at-will if y choose Damnation tree.
Warlock:
"You have excellent short-ranged attack ability, and your powers confuse or weaken your opponent. You can shift easily from ranged attacks to melee attacks. However, you are not very resilient and rely on powers of evasion and concealment to avoid attack."
And why :Armor of Agathys You gain temporary hit points equal to 10 + your Intelligence modifier
Armor of winter's grasp:You gain a power bonus to AC +cold damage, and the target is slowed
Grasp of the Iron Tower:You gain resist to all damage
++++++fiendish resilience+++++
They have many summons .
Just a tip we need 1 skill to protect our self. And some fast cc.
This. As it stands now, the Warlock is simply not PvP viable.
No Defence
No Deflect
No Dodge
No CC
No CC Breaker
Has to out-heal incoming damage while under Healing Depression
It's a free kill to any other class.
I wrote a rather extensive post on the subject in another thread, if you'd care to comment. I didn't want to post it in this thread because it's absolutely massive, and I'd like to save people some annoyance. It helps that it's less about bugs and such and more about how Warlocks are going to be utterly crushed in pvp, with how to fix that problem.
Ok - my general feedback from the position of levelling a Warlock the hard way (no twinking or tomes) to level 56 so far...
The class is a blast at early levels. Feels powerful enough but demands some thought to get the best out of the the powers and to work with the inherent squishiness. However, once you get into the 40's things change. I started to feel really underpowered against groups of mobs and survivability became a major issue despite stacking as much lifesteal as possible. Rothe Valley was a wake-up call as swarms of spiders were very difficult to deal with.
I'm now doing Hotenow and chugging pots like crazy despite having a lifesteal stat around 3k with 16% damage converted to healing (I took feats to boost LS). The lack of a proper dodge is crippling TBH, although I do like the positioning capability of the sprint.
Encounters don't seem to scale well with the exception of Dreadtheft and Killing Flame. Warlock's Bargain is great against bosses but pretty hard to leverage against anything with fewer HP. The others are all various flavours of meh.
In short, Warlock needs a boost to either survivability or damage at higher levels. At the moment I can see it struggling in endgame PvE content and is completely unviable in PvP. On the plus side the core game play is great fun and requires some thought, which I love.
You are doing it wrong. I've noticed that surprisingly lifesteal (sic!) isn't such a good idea on paper defense character with no reliable way to dodge anything. From 30 I've concentrated mostly on defence and deflection and guess what I've managed to lvl to 60 without dying once. Of course it took a lot of effort, massive amounts of potions and crippling my damage considerably along the way but still it can be done. You will never outheal incoming damage with lifesteal without proper defence and/or decent CC skills or maybe massive AoE damage, it's just impossible. Like I've mentioned earlier, as it is, Worlock is the hardest class to lvl up to 60, it's not slow in lvling as GF turtle build but you must be cautious about everything, one wrong move and you are near dead, always have clear way to escape, don't take more than 3 adds head on, never!, our only reliable AoE (fiery bolt) skill is so pathetic in damage that it is better to use single target skills on group of mobs, thinning them out and using dreadtheft on cursed mobs walking backwards to maintain distance to do anything, always use healer companion. I think devs didn't play this class in pvp, epic dungeons and from 40+. Class lacks in always all areas: defense, CC, CC immunity, AoE damage, even single target damage. I still don't get it, what is the role of Warlock? It seems it can be decent healer in dungeon where everyone else will take all the agro but outside of that it's really bad.
It seems for now only viable tactic to lvl Warlock solo to 60 without dying on every corner is to ditch lifesteal completely and concentrate only on defense. That's the harsh truth. Oh and guys don't try to use sprint to dodge anything completely, just use little steps, you will get hit almost all the time anyway and this will get you much more needed CC immunity and a little dmg reduction. It's not easy to time though.
You are doing it wrong. I've noticed that surprisingly lifesteal (sic!) isn't such a good idea on paper defense character with no reliable way to dodge anything.
Yeah I know. But for purposes of testing I'm trying to play the way the class appears to have been designed to operate, which is masses of lifesteal and little defence. I suspected from my experiences with CW that this would be difficult without any CC, AOE, and dodge but practice is better than theory for accurate feedback.
The lifesteal approach works fine against big, low mobility bosses but sucks versus just about anything else. The closer I get to 60 the more I feel that Warlock is fundamentally flawed as it stands now.
Hmmm - respeced to Damnation tree (Puppet Master) and it feels WAY better than Fury tree. I did tweak my gear slightly as well, moving some points from LS to Def, but not huge changes (only using drops for gear). With a permanent Puppet that spawns with pretty much any damage and the buffs to LS, mitigation, DPS, and Puppet damage I'm both far less squishy and doing more damage. With the upcoming changes to the Puppet to make it more survivable this could be the best path for solo play.
It might be that Warlock is not as lacking in PvE as it first seems - it just takes very careful selection of feats and powers.
Hmmm - respeced to Damnation tree (Puppet Master) and it feels WAY better than Fury tree. I did tweak my gear slightly as well, moving some points from LS to Def, but not huge changes (only using drops for gear). With a permanent Puppet that spawns with pretty much any damage and the buffs to LS, mitigation, DPS, and Puppet damage I'm both far less squishy and doing more damage. With the upcoming changes to the Puppet to make it more survivable this could be the best path for solo play.
It might be that Warlock is not as lacking in PvE as it first seems - it just takes very careful selection of feats and powers.
Y are wrong the Dammnation tree already nerfed by -8 % ls .
And your puppet die realy fast somtimes he dont have 1 sec life time , and y can resummon it but if he die agan "happens too" ,you need to wait 15 sec .Also slotting Killing Flames to resummon it dont help you have to wait still the 15 sec .
And dont forget they dont want to buff Dammnation tree (gentlemancrush say SW is not a minion master).
Y are wrong the Dammnation tree already nerfed by -8 % ls .
And your puppet die realy fast somtimes he dont have 1 sec life time , and y can resummon it but if he die agan "happens too" ,you need to wait 15 sec .Also slotting Killing Flames to resummon it dont help you have to wait still the 15 sec .
And dont forget they dont want to buff Dammnation tree (gentlemancrush say SW is not a minion master).
I did the second lair in Hotenow and the Puppet survived OK for the most part. And you don't have to wait 15 seconds every time, even without using Killing Flame.
The tree is getting a slight buff in the next patch - the Puppet will be immune to AoE and their LS is being fixed. Of course we'll also lose the current bugged amount of LS from the Capstone - which may account for the extra tankiness I experienced. Have to see how it plays after the patch.
Fury tree feels pretty lacklustre in comparison. Haven't tried Temptation yet but that looks like a party build rather than solo.
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited July 2014
I think this class have lost the base passive ability and they base active ability .
Cuz in D&D SW have (active)Fiendish Resilience the warlock gains fast healing & (passive)Energy resistance&Damage Reduction this is why he dont need any controll or teleport .
Cuz her base skin (pact with daemon)is soo tough not even a Greatsword can beat her DR after lvl20+he can chose 1 type of elemental dmg he is immune (fire/ice/ligthning/acid).
Ofc based on 3.5 ed D&D.
Also the Hellbringer can wear chain mail not leather.
Cuz Hellbringer only exist there.
SW passive ability in NW are lack of survive.
An this is why he is soo powerfull .
Wizards Sorcerers can wear only robe and robes gives 0 ac also wizards& sorcerers need to cast spells to boost her DR in the mean time SW dont need to do this cuz he can cast spells in chain mail or mithral Breast plate and have her base dmr up to 20 eq =30-40 % dmr.
He have eq DR as Barbarian similar to GWF.
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited July 2014
Deeper digging we have Sorcerer-king pact.
At-will spell:hand of blight
This is 4 ed.
And the base ability is this ,Fell Scorn: If the warlock's fell might is spent, it is restored. The warlock starts each encounter with fell might unspent, and must choose whether to spend fell might when using a power, before making any attack rolls or applying any effects.
Shadow Walk
On your turn, if you move at least 3 squares away from where you started your turn, you gain concealment until the end of your next turn.
Warlock's Curse
Once per turn as a minor action, you can place a Warlock’s Curse on the enemy nearest to you that you can see. A cursed enemy is more vulnerable to your attacks. If you damage a cursed enemy, you deal extra damage. You decide whether to apply the extra damage after making the damage roll. You can deal this extra damage once per round.
A Warlock’s Curse remains in effect until the end of the encounter or until the cursed enemy drops to 0 hit points or fewer.
You can place a Warlock’s Curse on multiple targets over the course of an encounter; each curse requires the use of a minor action. You can’t place a Warlock’s Curse on a creature that is already affected by your or another character’s Warlock’s Curse.
As you advance in level, your extra damage increases.
Deeper digging we have Sorcerer-king pact.
At-will spell:hand of blight
This is 4 ed.
And the base ability is this ,Fell Scorn: If the warlock's fell might is spent, it is restored.
The warlock starts each encounter with fell might unspent, and must choose whether to spend fell might when using a power, before making any attack rolls or applying any effects.
Shadow Walk
On your turn, if you move at least 3 squares away from where you started your turn, you gain concealment until the end of your next turn.
Warlock's Curse
Once per turn as a minor action, you can place a Warlock’s Curse on the enemy nearest to you that you can see. A cursed enemy is more vulnerable to your attacks. If you damage a cursed enemy, you deal extra damage. You decide whether to apply the extra damage after making the damage roll. You can deal this extra damage once per round.
A Warlock’s Curse remains in effect until the end of the encounter or until the cursed enemy drops to 0 hit points or fewer.
You can place a Warlock’s Curse on multiple targets over the course of an encounter; each curse requires the use of a minor action. You can’t place a Warlock’s Curse on a creature that is already affected by your or another character’s Warlock’s Curse.
As you advance in level, your extra damage increases.
THAT warlock does sound awesome. Too bad all you get here is Quasimodo.
P.lifedrinker is useless in pvp. Its weapon damage is subjected to DR + Tenacity + Deflect, then the damage inflicted on our target (around 10% to 20% of original 8.8% weapon damage) is halved and return back as heal due to Healing Depression.
No, ppl used to double tab a skill for it to work immediately, if we spam the key while cc-ed or hold the key too long after cast, the beam is over and u got to wait another 15 sec to cast it. Just let it remains the same will do.
Harrowstorm: Curse Consume: Now prones the target for 4 seconds (up from 1 second).
There is not a single class in this game that deserves a 4 second prone in PvP. Similar to CW Shard, there should be different prone times in PvE and PvP for the encounter.
No, ppl used to double tab a skill for it to work immediately, if we spam the key while cc-ed or hold the key too long after cast, the beam is over and u got to wait another 15 sec to cast it. Just let it remains the same will do.
the cancel could "turn on" like 1.5 seconds after activating the power
I'm surprised that peoples reaction to the new idle stance is positive. I personally dislike it, while I get that it's suppose to look like he's dignified or powerful and aloof. It to me looks just like he's got a back issue and is keeping his hand there to help ease the pain or something. Granted it is better than the last idle stance but I just think it looks funny and very awkward.
Feedback: Warlock lvl 60 Dread Ring
Leveled my SW to 60 through questing. Just completed first day quests in Dread Ring and I can say, that SW's damage is way out of hands. Using Temptation+Fury tree, my HP didn't dropped below 70% even once. Encounter Rotation - Warlock's Bargain, Dreadtheft, Vampiric Embrace. In comparison to live 14k HR, GF and DC, it was like a walk in a park. Absolutely fast, safe and easy.
You could probably think "ofc you did! with ranks 10, perfects and legendary artifacts!" I have 6800 GS, mix of 40+lvl blues and 55+ lvl greens with R7s (all power). My weapon is green 59 lvl junk, waters 29 lvl artifact.
It's pretty crazy to see all those 8k+ damage tooltips.
I'd like to point out that everything you have in that setup is built to keep you alive longer. Warlock's bargain sacrifices some health to give you a DoT, super healing, and damage reflection. Dreadtheft is a huge increase to damage resistance. Vampiric embrace should be kind of obvious. The temptation tree does nothing but make you and your team harder to kill.
What we don't have is the tools to deal with is huge mobs.
Comments
No Defence
No Deflect
No Dodge
No CC
No CC Breaker
Has to out-heal incoming damage while under Healing Depression
It's a free kill to any other class.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
100% agree
The only defense is +2% LS from heroic feat and +2% LS for 1 sec untill the puppet die from one at-will if y choose Damnation tree.
Warlock:
"You have excellent short-ranged attack ability, and your powers confuse or weaken your opponent. You can shift easily from ranged attacks to melee attacks. However, you are not very resilient and rely on powers of evasion and concealment to avoid attack."
And why :Armor of Agathys You gain temporary hit points equal to 10 + your Intelligence modifier
Armor of winter's grasp:You gain a power bonus to AC +cold damage, and the target is slowed
Grasp of the Iron Tower:You gain resist to all damage
++++++fiendish resilience+++++
They have many summons .
Just a tip we need 1 skill to protect our self. And some fast cc.
I wrote a rather extensive post on the subject in another thread, if you'd care to comment. I didn't want to post it in this thread because it's absolutely massive, and I'd like to save people some annoyance. It helps that it's less about bugs and such and more about how Warlocks are going to be utterly crushed in pvp, with how to fix that problem.
It seems for now only viable tactic to lvl Warlock solo to 60 without dying on every corner is to ditch lifesteal completely and concentrate only on defense. That's the harsh truth. Oh and guys don't try to use sprint to dodge anything completely, just use little steps, you will get hit almost all the time anyway and this will get you much more needed CC immunity and a little dmg reduction. It's not easy to time though.
The lifesteal approach works fine against big, low mobility bosses but sucks versus just about anything else. The closer I get to 60 the more I feel that Warlock is fundamentally flawed as it stands now.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
WTB Class Reroll please
And most of the PVE sets build on the puppet .
But gentlemancrush say SW is not a minion master.
Meh...that way SW will have to build enough dps to oneshot everything on sight or the class is just a cannon fodder...
WTB Class Reroll please
With +9 base dmg? Its not stacking just +9.
-_____________________________-
I already feel
Mind sharing your feats with us?
WTB Class Reroll please
Y are wrong the Dammnation tree already nerfed by -8 % ls .
And your puppet die realy fast somtimes he dont have 1 sec life time , and y can resummon it but if he die agan "happens too" ,you need to wait 15 sec .Also slotting Killing Flames to resummon it dont help you have to wait still the 15 sec .
And dont forget they dont want to buff Dammnation tree (gentlemancrush say SW is not a minion master).
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
The tree is getting a slight buff in the next patch - the Puppet will be immune to AoE and their LS is being fixed. Of course we'll also lose the current bugged amount of LS from the Capstone - which may account for the extra tankiness I experienced. Have to see how it plays after the patch.
Fury tree feels pretty lacklustre in comparison. Haven't tried Temptation yet but that looks like a party build rather than solo.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
That's the fault of the class, not the trees.
Cuz in D&D SW have (active)Fiendish Resilience the warlock gains fast healing & (passive)Energy resistance&Damage Reduction this is why he dont need any controll or teleport .
Cuz her base skin (pact with daemon)is soo tough not even a Greatsword can beat her DR after lvl20+he can chose 1 type of elemental dmg he is immune (fire/ice/ligthning/acid).
Ofc based on 3.5 ed D&D.
Also the Hellbringer can wear chain mail not leather.
Cuz Hellbringer only exist there.
SW passive ability in NW are lack of survive.
An this is why he is soo powerfull .
Wizards Sorcerers can wear only robe and robes gives 0 ac also wizards& sorcerers need to cast spells to boost her DR in the mean time SW dont need to do this cuz he can cast spells in chain mail or mithral Breast plate and have her base dmr up to 20 eq =30-40 % dmr.
He have eq DR as Barbarian similar to GWF.
At-will spell:hand of blight
This is 4 ed.
And the base ability is this ,Fell Scorn: If the warlock's fell might is spent, it is restored.
The warlock starts each encounter with fell might unspent, and must choose whether to spend fell might when using a power, before making any attack rolls or applying any effects.
Shadow Walk
On your turn, if you move at least 3 squares away from where you started your turn, you gain concealment until the end of your next turn.
Warlock's Curse
Once per turn as a minor action, you can place a Warlock’s Curse on the enemy nearest to you that you can see. A cursed enemy is more vulnerable to your attacks. If you damage a cursed enemy, you deal extra damage. You decide whether to apply the extra damage after making the damage roll. You can deal this extra damage once per round.
A Warlock’s Curse remains in effect until the end of the encounter or until the cursed enemy drops to 0 hit points or fewer.
You can place a Warlock’s Curse on multiple targets over the course of an encounter; each curse requires the use of a minor action. You can’t place a Warlock’s Curse on a creature that is already affected by your or another character’s Warlock’s Curse.
As you advance in level, your extra damage increases.
THAT warlock does sound awesome. Too bad all you get here is Quasimodo.
Sanctuary! SANCTUARY!!!
What does the shift do? Downloading the patch now so can't see for myself at the moment.
WTB Class Reroll please
and dreadtheft should turn off on recast instead of wasting stamina
There is not a single class in this game that deserves a 4 second prone in PvP. Similar to CW Shard, there should be different prone times in PvE and PvP for the encounter.
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the cancel could "turn on" like 1.5 seconds after activating the power
I'd like to point out that everything you have in that setup is built to keep you alive longer. Warlock's bargain sacrifices some health to give you a DoT, super healing, and damage reflection. Dreadtheft is a huge increase to damage resistance. Vampiric embrace should be kind of obvious. The temptation tree does nothing but make you and your team harder to kill.
What we don't have is the tools to deal with is huge mobs.