Do not take things out of context to troll the Community Moderators. Thanks! ~Zeb
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited June 2014
I have to say again that investigating lifting or at least strongly relaxing spending cap limits for accounts that have either bought Zen or a pack seems like it would work as a possible solution.
Every adversely affected legitimate player falls into those categories, and having an account flagged with those purchases already bypasses the level-15 restriction on a number of other game activities (tells, starting a guild, Foundry access).
Would goldseller accounts start putting real money into Zen or packs in order to circumvent the restrictions? I always thought that they relied heavily on operating many accounts that were disposable and interchangeable. And we still know from observation of scripted activity that they're capable of getting into level 60 zones, so it's not like level 60 is by itself a 100% safeguard.
I agree that you don't *need* twink gear to level up. But it gives some people enjoyment, and games are for enjoyment. Telling someone that they'll just have to grind their first character to 60 so that then maybe their second one can enjoy all the treats... is sucky advice, when that isn't how the person wanted to budget their game money. You really think they're going to feel good enough about the game to stick it out for a second character?
Cryptic knows that alienating their paying playerbase is bad business, which is why they're trying to make adjustments to specific items to make them exempt from the spending limit. But rather than trying to adjust specific items so that they get caught by new introductions and market fluctuations... why not adjust the underlying code to recognize accounts that are highly likely to belong to real paying customers?
Players that pay and those that don't are both needed to support the game, alienating either group should be avoided, which is likely why Cryptic is trying to solve the exchange problem. The restriction below level 60 is very smart. There are quite possibly level 60 bots right now that can keep business going for 3rd party AD sellers, but if they get banned they can't make any money until they work their way back to level 60. This policy plus actively seeking out bots should solve this problem in theory.
Right now Cryptic just needs to see if there is a way to keep a strangle hold on bots without causing too much inconvenience to the actual players.
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gdawg311Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited June 2014
is anything being done to fix this problem? i have spent a ton of my real life hard earned money to purchase Zen, then transferred it to AD because I was enjoying pvp so much as i am leveling that i wanted to purchase some better gear, now the game is telling me i cant even do that? if i cant enjoy playing the game the way i want to play because some people abuse some system, then whats the point in continuing to play... also, how do i go about getting a refund for the 200+ dollars i spend on the pack for the 2m AD and the zen i purchased thats now useless? telling me to grind a toon to 60 just so that i can FINALLY be able to make a character to enjoy the game the way I want to is not a valid statement
I do not have this issue, but they are right to demand the ability to spend their AD the way they want. The shop is for convenience and jet if you dont have a lvl 60 char you are banned from minmaxing your toon, not cool and in my opinion a bad choice.
I have a full knights of x.. set on my account with two rings, and if I want to lvl an alt he will run with a enhancing companion with ancient gear, mullh. weapons, R9 enchants, perf. vorp., etc. Why? Because I dont want to spent to much time leveling alts. Why should someone who spents real cash not be able to do the same.
BTW I would be surprised, if there is a disclaimer in the Zen store, that you can buy ingame currency, but your use is restricted due to some goldseller issues.
I can see why a system like this would some benefits but on top have "having a level 60 on the account" "purchasing a Neverwinter Pack" should absolutely override this restriction.
--- Ranked matches need to be solo-queue only
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
Wow, 1st 500AD/1Zen is the new normal, then $150.00 price tag on perfect enchants, now this...
You guys really know how to welcome new players and make them feel at home.
Slow... Clap....
The market is player driven - Every order I have placed in the exchange has eventually been filled, so you just need to be patient. If patience, however, isn't your thing, then you're going to have to spend some money.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Sorry bio, I think you may have misunderstood my short rant as nothing you stated came anywhere close to addressing anything I take issue with. I am not trying to sell zen, I am disgusted with the direction that NW has been pushed with respect to the player economy and the cost to bring a new character up to par...
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
Sorry bio, I think you may have misunderstood my short rant as nothing you stated came anywhere close to addressing anything I take issue with. I am not trying to sell zen, I am disgusted with the direction that NW has been pushed with respect to the player economy and the cost to bring a new character up to par...
Do you mean in terms of time to end game (IWD), or that PWE has been strictly "hands off" with regard to the market remaining at the cap for a while now, with the Zen demand continuing to grow?
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I mean that it is my opinion that the ZAX was engineered to max out at the cap and stay there, after that occurred, (IMHO) the breakdown of the game economy was further advanced by the decision to have trade bar C-Wards BOP, which untied the value of C-Wards from the value of keys causing both to skyrocket overnight.
Then I find out that new players are prevented from buying mulhorand gear because they are not allowed to spend enough AD to pay for them? It seems (IMHO) that the aim of cryptic/PWE is to discourage people from playing this game unless they have plenty of $$$ to throw down on it, and even then they will be unable to spend their AD in the way that suits them.
Feels like folks are being pushed away, I can only speculate that there is some new project on the horizon and they don't much care whether this one lives much longer....
I mean that it is my opinion that the ZAX was engineered to max out at the cap and stay there, after that occurred, (IMHO) the breakdown of the game economy was further advanced by the decision to have trade bar C-Wards BOP, which untied the value of C-Wards from the value of keys causing both to skyrocket overnight.
Then I find out that new players are prevented from buying mulhorand gear because they are not allowed to spend enough AD to pay for them? It seems (IMHO) that the aim of cryptic/PWE is to discourage people from playing this game unless they have plenty of $$$ to throw down on it, and even then they will be unable to spend their AD in the way that suits them.
Feels like folks are being pushed away, I can only speculate that there is some new project on the horizon and they don't much care whether this one lives much longer....
Nope. You don't need to pay a single cent to play this game adequately.
First of all, since when are mulhorand weapons required to finish the 1-60 journey? That reasoning in itself shows you lack perspective regarding the matter.
Nope. You don't need to pay a single cent to play this game adequately.
First of all, since when are mulhorand weapons required to finish the 1-60 journey? That reasoning in itself shows you lack perspective regarding the matter.
They are not required, but neither are dyes or rank 3 mounts....yet if I spend $200 on a game to get such things I should be able to use them regardless of whether or not it is necessary.
This has nothing to do with having to spend money, but instead has to do with the fact that when you spend money to buy Hero of the North papckage you get 2 million AD.....after you start playing you realize you can't use them until you have completed the regular game content...which may be kind of dissapointing to people who spent. Regardless of how you got to level 60 it is up to the individual how he/she spend their Astral Diamonds. If they want to get all mulhorand gear and slayer set with their ad, then why shouldn't they be able to?
Also people who have reached level 60 STILL cannot access the auction house due to the AH limit not being removed at 60.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
They are not required, but neither are dyes or rank 3 mounts....yet if I spend $200 on a game to get such things I should be able to use them regardless of whether or not it is necessary.
This has nothing to do with having to spend money, but instead has to do with the fact that when you spend money to buy Hero of the North papckage you get 2 million AD.....after you start playing you realize you can't use them until you have completed the regular game content...which may be kind of dissapointing to people who spent. Regardless of how you got to level 60 it is up to the individual how he/she spend their Astral Diamonds. If they want to get all mulhorand gear and slayer set with their ad, then why shouldn't they be able to?
Also people who have reached level 60 STILL cannot access the auction house due to the AH limit not being removed at 60.
I definitely agree, in the case of the various packages, that the spending limit should be lifted. Furthermore, I think that new players should be given an in game tutorial regarding all the things their ADs can buy - so they don't blow them all on stuff form the Wondrous Bazaar w/o checking out the AH or ZAX.
I admit, it is difficult to put myself back into the shoes of someone who hasn't played the game for a while, so if those ADs are burning a hole in your pocket, you may make costly mistakes.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
My definition of "adequately" includes being able to rank up my enchants (or rank up the enchants I need in order to rank up my enchants) without having to grind for a week to get 500k AD or spend $10.00 on a C-Ward from the Zen market.
With reference to Mulhorand weapons, true they are not "Required" however previous to this change it was pretty much "Standard" for me, my guild, and pretty dang near everyone I interacted with. What is the point of buying Mulhorand after level 60?
BTW, your strawman is looking a little thin, might want to stuff him a bit more.
To clarify: I am very frustrated with the FACT that the creators/administrators of NW have completely borked the economy in the game to make more $$. I am very frustrated with the FACT that the grind of getting a new character "up to par" (meaning high level enchantments that allow you to compete in end game content) has been heavily increased by the borking of the economy and the scarcity/expense of C-wards now that Tarm wards bop.
I just wanted to make sure correct that notion since I was appalled at how stupid that example was
What argument? I can't understand what you mean.
Are you sure you understand what is the topic of this thread?
Neverwinter advertises packages to start the game.
People buy the packages thinking the can use what is inside.
Then people can't use what is inside.
End of story. No arguing is going to change that.
This new policy is aimed at straightening out the exchange. If they are successful this could mean that your ADs are worth about 40% more on the exchange. Those of us that remember seeing purple mounts on the AH for 750,000 AD have been trying to warn you that now isn't the time to spend a ton of AD if you don't have to.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
What argument? I can't understand what you mean.
Are you sure you understand what is the topic of this thread?
Neverwinter advertises packages to start the game.
People buy the packages thinking the can use what is inside.
Then people can't use what is inside.
End of story. No arguing is going to change that.
Part of the issue, IMO, is that the *intent* behind giving new players those 2 millions ADs isn't clear. At the time the Hero of the North package was first introduced, there wasn't quite the supply of items that a new player would want to spend them on before reaching level 60. Now, with so many choices, things like wanting to ease the leveling up process, or just picking up some fashion pieces that you may have missed being able to get, are available. As a wholly free player, I have no problem with saying "You gotta wait till 60 to do away with the restriction", but for someone who dropped $60 or $200 on the game, let them spend away...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Neverwinter: Hero of the North Pack
Whether beginning your adventure, or looking for that extra boost against the foes that Neverwinter has to offer, the unique items in the Neverwinter Packs will aid your efforts!
"Neverwinter: Hero of the North Pack
Whether beginning your adventure, or looking for that extra boost against the foes that Neverwinter has to offer, the unique items in the Neverwinter Packs will aid your efforts!"
Exactly, what is marketed as a $200 package that can help you in "beginning your adventure" is not what they are getting.
If they want to advertise packages to people just beginning they should make them aware of the fact that they will not be able to use a large portion of what they purchased until they reach level 60 and completed 90% of content.This does not touch on the fact that even after they have reached 60 apparently people STILL cannot access the AH. I don't know if this is a bug or an unintended consequence of the new programming of the AH limit.
I for one will be watching this thread and waiting for a resolution before I purchase anything as my toons are only lv 17 and 45 atm.
Bioshirke is right in the fact that the game is very different in what you can buy for 2 million now compared to what was available when the pack first was introduced.
The unique item line specifies exactly what it states. "The unique items included in this pack will aid your efforts against your foes.
When the pack was created, there was no mulhorand items, there wasn't 10000 enchantments on the AH, thousands of mounts etc etc.
I have seven (7) level 60 characters of varying ages from beta to recent times. I was able to complete content and level five (5) of them to 60, without spending ANY AD and just using found gear and enchants. The other two I had a bit of luck and acquired Mulhorand gear, which was nice I'll admit. I fail to see how one needs AH gear in PVE prior to 60.
As a note on my 'packs': 2 characters leveled with no special packs, 3 gaining benefits from Guardian, and 2 from Guardian and Knight of Feywild.
Edit note: I have completed a lot of special offers to receive numerous potion packs and silly titles. With a bit of work, it is possible to be completely free all the way to level 60.
I have seven (7) level 60 characters of varying ages from beta to recent times. I was able to complete content and level five (5) of them to 60, without spending ANY AD and just using found gear and enchants. The other two I had a bit of luck and acquired Mulhorand gear, which was nice I'll admit. I fail to see how one needs AH gear in PVE prior to 60.
As a note on my 'packs': 2 characters leveled with no special packs, 3 gaining benefits from Guardian, and 2 from Guardian and Knight of Feywild.
Edit note: I have completed a lot of special offers to receive numerous potion packs and silly titles. With a bit of work, it is possible to be completely free all the way to level 60.
Please keep in mind that "need" doesn't really fit into the equation here - it's more about a simple "right" - you drop $60 or $200 on the game, you *should* be able to spend the associated ADs however and whenever you want...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Yes I agree but simple "right" isnt covered in the ToS and the EULA.
That's why we're discussing the topic, and pushing for them to make a change...
I'm not using the term "right" in the sense of a protected freedom, I'm using it more to refer to a reasonable expectation.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I see good posts on both sides of the argument. On one side, this restriction will cool down the influx of AD. The exchange is buggered right now, because it has a cap. Cryptic capped it at 500 ad per zen, so that people couldn't be forced to pay crazy amounts of AD to get zen store items. They did the cap so everyone had a chance at zen store items. What they didn't foresee was the fact that people could buy zen items, and sell them for MORE then 500 ad per zen. This is why the exchange isn't running, and why the AH is so high. People are buying zen items, and selling them for crazy amounts of AD, netting way above the cap that cryptic set.
I'm assuming this is why cryptic imposed this restriction. They're trying to introduce a cap on the AH as well. They just did it very poorly. It does stop gold sellers from manipulating the market though. I'm sure as soon as prices start to fall on the AH, the ad sellers are buying up these items with their low level spammers and reselling them at their own price. It will also stop low level people from buying AD as there's not much of a point in having AD at a lower level. But, they overlooked the fact that these packs give people a legitimate reason to have that much AD at a low level. These packs should be allowed to clear the AH restrictions. If gold spammers want to spend 50-200 dollars on a pack to use the AH freely, that should be okay.
Unlimited AH use should just be a perk in the packs already.
Reasonable is relative, its always reasonable to the devs/publisher. Even if it makes zero reasonable sense to the playerbase, because they only release a sliver of the information needed to understand it.
Transparency is the thing I want most from devs/publishers. Its always reasonable to expect, but is rarely delivered.
Comments
Every adversely affected legitimate player falls into those categories, and having an account flagged with those purchases already bypasses the level-15 restriction on a number of other game activities (tells, starting a guild, Foundry access).
Would goldseller accounts start putting real money into Zen or packs in order to circumvent the restrictions? I always thought that they relied heavily on operating many accounts that were disposable and interchangeable. And we still know from observation of scripted activity that they're capable of getting into level 60 zones, so it's not like level 60 is by itself a 100% safeguard.
I agree that you don't *need* twink gear to level up. But it gives some people enjoyment, and games are for enjoyment. Telling someone that they'll just have to grind their first character to 60 so that then maybe their second one can enjoy all the treats... is sucky advice, when that isn't how the person wanted to budget their game money. You really think they're going to feel good enough about the game to stick it out for a second character?
Cryptic knows that alienating their paying playerbase is bad business, which is why they're trying to make adjustments to specific items to make them exempt from the spending limit. But rather than trying to adjust specific items so that they get caught by new introductions and market fluctuations... why not adjust the underlying code to recognize accounts that are highly likely to belong to real paying customers?
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Right now Cryptic just needs to see if there is a way to keep a strangle hold on bots without causing too much inconvenience to the actual players.
I have a full knights of x.. set on my account with two rings, and if I want to lvl an alt he will run with a enhancing companion with ancient gear, mullh. weapons, R9 enchants, perf. vorp., etc. Why? Because I dont want to spent to much time leveling alts. Why should someone who spents real cash not be able to do the same.
BTW I would be surprised, if there is a disclaimer in the Zen store, that you can buy ingame currency, but your use is restricted due to some goldseller issues.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
You guys really know how to welcome new players and make them feel at home.
Slow... Clap....
The market is player driven - Every order I have placed in the exchange has eventually been filled, so you just need to be patient. If patience, however, isn't your thing, then you're going to have to spend some money.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Do you mean in terms of time to end game (IWD), or that PWE has been strictly "hands off" with regard to the market remaining at the cap for a while now, with the Zen demand continuing to grow?
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Then I find out that new players are prevented from buying mulhorand gear because they are not allowed to spend enough AD to pay for them? It seems (IMHO) that the aim of cryptic/PWE is to discourage people from playing this game unless they have plenty of $$$ to throw down on it, and even then they will be unable to spend their AD in the way that suits them.
Feels like folks are being pushed away, I can only speculate that there is some new project on the horizon and they don't much care whether this one lives much longer....
Nope. You don't need to pay a single cent to play this game adequately.
First of all, since when are mulhorand weapons required to finish the 1-60 journey? That reasoning in itself shows you lack perspective regarding the matter.
This has nothing to do with having to spend money, but instead has to do with the fact that when you spend money to buy Hero of the North papckage you get 2 million AD.....after you start playing you realize you can't use them until you have completed the regular game content...which may be kind of dissapointing to people who spent. Regardless of how you got to level 60 it is up to the individual how he/she spend their Astral Diamonds. If they want to get all mulhorand gear and slayer set with their ad, then why shouldn't they be able to?
Also people who have reached level 60 STILL cannot access the auction house due to the AH limit not being removed at 60.
I definitely agree, in the case of the various packages, that the spending limit should be lifted. Furthermore, I think that new players should be given an in game tutorial regarding all the things their ADs can buy - so they don't blow them all on stuff form the Wondrous Bazaar w/o checking out the AH or ZAX.
I admit, it is difficult to put myself back into the shoes of someone who hasn't played the game for a while, so if those ADs are burning a hole in your pocket, you may make costly mistakes.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
With reference to Mulhorand weapons, true they are not "Required" however previous to this change it was pretty much "Standard" for me, my guild, and pretty dang near everyone I interacted with. What is the point of buying Mulhorand after level 60?
BTW, your strawman is looking a little thin, might want to stuff him a bit more.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
To clarify: I am very frustrated with the FACT that the creators/administrators of NW have completely borked the economy in the game to make more $$. I am very frustrated with the FACT that the grind of getting a new character "up to par" (meaning high level enchantments that allow you to compete in end game content) has been heavily increased by the borking of the economy and the scarcity/expense of C-wards now that Tarm wards bop.
I just wanted to make sure correct that notion since I was appalled at how stupid that example was
Are you sure you understand what is the topic of this thread?
Neverwinter advertises packages to start the game.
People buy the packages thinking the can use what is inside.
Then people can't use what is inside.
End of story. No arguing is going to change that.
Part of the issue, IMO, is that the *intent* behind giving new players those 2 millions ADs isn't clear. At the time the Hero of the North package was first introduced, there wasn't quite the supply of items that a new player would want to spend them on before reaching level 60. Now, with so many choices, things like wanting to ease the leveling up process, or just picking up some fashion pieces that you may have missed being able to get, are available. As a wholly free player, I have no problem with saying "You gotta wait till 60 to do away with the restriction", but for someone who dropped $60 or $200 on the game, let them spend away...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Actually I think they have made it quite clear. Its right on the item packs page: http://games.arcgames.com/en/prod/neverwinter
and here http://games.arcgames.com/en/prod/neverwinter/game-pack/detail/261-hero-of-the-north-pack
Whether beginning your adventure, or looking for that extra boost against the foes that Neverwinter has to offer, the unique items in the Neverwinter Packs will aid your efforts!"
Exactly, what is marketed as a $200 package that can help you in "beginning your adventure" is not what they are getting.
If they want to advertise packages to people just beginning they should make them aware of the fact that they will not be able to use a large portion of what they purchased until they reach level 60 and completed 90% of content.This does not touch on the fact that even after they have reached 60 apparently people STILL cannot access the AH. I don't know if this is a bug or an unintended consequence of the new programming of the AH limit.
I for one will be watching this thread and waiting for a resolution before I purchase anything as my toons are only lv 17 and 45 atm.
The unique item line specifies exactly what it states. "The unique items included in this pack will aid your efforts against your foes.
When the pack was created, there was no mulhorand items, there wasn't 10000 enchantments on the AH, thousands of mounts etc etc.
As a note on my 'packs': 2 characters leveled with no special packs, 3 gaining benefits from Guardian, and 2 from Guardian and Knight of Feywild.
Edit note: I have completed a lot of special offers to receive numerous potion packs and silly titles. With a bit of work, it is possible to be completely free all the way to level 60.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
Please keep in mind that "need" doesn't really fit into the equation here - it's more about a simple "right" - you drop $60 or $200 on the game, you *should* be able to spend the associated ADs however and whenever you want...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
That's why we're discussing the topic, and pushing for them to make a change...
I'm not using the term "right" in the sense of a protected freedom, I'm using it more to refer to a reasonable expectation.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I'm assuming this is why cryptic imposed this restriction. They're trying to introduce a cap on the AH as well. They just did it very poorly. It does stop gold sellers from manipulating the market though. I'm sure as soon as prices start to fall on the AH, the ad sellers are buying up these items with their low level spammers and reselling them at their own price. It will also stop low level people from buying AD as there's not much of a point in having AD at a lower level. But, they overlooked the fact that these packs give people a legitimate reason to have that much AD at a low level. These packs should be allowed to clear the AH restrictions. If gold spammers want to spend 50-200 dollars on a pack to use the AH freely, that should be okay.
Unlimited AH use should just be a perk in the packs already.
Transparency is the thing I want most from devs/publishers. Its always reasonable to expect, but is rarely delivered.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas