Keep in mind that the new changes are not up, so any testing done right now is inconsequential.
Also remember that no class lives in a vacuum.
There is an 80% hard cap on damage resistance. The magic number a GF needs to consistently meet that hard cap if they have a competent DO DC in their group is 44.33% DR. Which is easily gotten with blue level 60 gear.
A DO DC can use feated Foresight to provide 11% DR.
Any DC can use Astral Shield to increase DR by 24.67%. This has an up time of 10 seconds every 15 seconds for a decently equipt DC.
For the time that Astral Shield is down, a DC can provide Hallowed Ground for a 30% DR during clutch times.
By chaining Astral Shield and Hallowed Ground, a DO DC allows the GF to be at the 80% DR hard cap for over a minute without interruption, if they use the DC artifact: AS=HG=AS=HG=AS. Then they can maintain the 80% hard cap 2/3 of the time or until their AP is gained back to cast Hallowed Ground again.
The Blocking damage resist is on top of the hard cap. So when the GF is at the hard cap of 80%, then when they block they will only take 4% damage. That 4% damage is further mitigated with Deflection, which IMHO is way to low in number to be worth actively pursuing. I think it best to put into Lifesteal, HP, and Regen after you get your Defense to around 3500. But that all needs to be tested when they make the changes on test.
The big issue with the new block has been brought up...the LAG monster. The lag monster will be the bane of any quick use of abilities. Making it more difficult to use a GF from around the world. Since the new block is supposed to be quickly put up to block the big attacks, then put back down again for DPS.
i'll say one thing : ET + fighter's recovery in a pack of 20 mobs is the sickest thing EVER!!!!!!
I was testing this out today in dread ring. I was trying to see how many mobs I can easily tank with my conq build and timeless set. I had at one point 26 guys around me. On my bar I had lunge, iron guard, and enforced threat. Terrifying impact and fighters recovery as Dailies, I was using the devoted artifact for quicker dailies. TR and cleave as my at-wills and trample the fallen and shield (the thing that raises the shield meter) as passives.
I did fairly well. It took me a little bit to whittle them down but between ET and TI I had them bunched and on the ground. In between I used shield (with extra mobility) I was able to position myself rather well and quick. I only had to pop FR once and with ET I had full health in one encounter power.
I popped Iron Guard quite a lot to get my shield to regen faster. My shield lasted 6-7 seconds each time I put it up and I was able to put it back up after a few seconds on cool down once popping IG. It wasn't a full shield but didn't matter since it is time based now not hp based.
If I got rid of lunging strike and used frontline surge it probably would have been better keeping everything on the ground. The added mobility with the shield up helps us a ton. And once they get rid of the charges on Tr, that will probably be my new set up. IG,FL,ET.
My GS is only a 13.6 so I'm not a uber geared Gf and I did fairly well. With a boost in the shield length I think I'm going to love it. I solo a lot and it will take me longer to do things but I also run a lot of dungeons and can see the benefits of the new ET. A GWF came around while I was testing and I would bunch everything around me and he would kill them all while I kept them on the ground. We worked well together. He didn't have to worry about aggro. I had it the whole time.
One augment to the new block system that came to mind (which I'm not sure has been suggested or not, sorry, not scanning all 20+ pages), which would be especially helpful for those with greater lag, is that block stamina doesn't start depleting until it gets hit. Following that first hit, there could be a cooldown so someone can't just spam the block. This would be especially helpful for PvPers trying to defend a node against people who would otherwise just wait for the guard meter to deplete and then run in for the easy kill, and would have essentially no effect on PvE since none of the baddies are smart enough to pay attention to block meters.
For that matter, can we not have our remaining guard be emblazoned over our heads like a giant "hit me now!" sign? This "feature" is absolutely absurd.
If you are going to keep that around, though, can all the other classes have similar bars showing how much stamina/sprint they have left too? I would definitely like to know when I won't be wasting an encounter or daily on a HR/TR/CW, as other classes have the privilege of knowing with GFs.
One augment to the new block system that came to mind (which I'm not sure has been suggested or not, sorry, not scanning all 20+ pages), which would be especially helpful for those with greater lag, is that block stamina doesn't start depleting until it gets hit. Following that first hit, there could be a cooldown so someone can't just spam the block. This would also be especially helpful for PVPers trying to defend a node against people who would otherwise just wait for the guard meter to deplete and then run in for the easy kill.
For that matter, can we not have our remaining guard be emblazoned over our heads like a giant "hit me now!" sign? This "feature" is absolutely absurd.
If you are going to keep that around, though, can all the other classes have similar bars showing how much stamina/sprint they have left too?
AHHHHHHHH! Thats would be a great idea.....
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Ok, I like that we have threat rush back and no charges. But since Frontline Surge is nerfed to oblivion and will deal half damage or less with a minor stun that can be resisted.... Can we change Griffons Wrath now?
Maybe, 8 second cooldown per hit instead of 12, and allow the stun to be long enough to use all 3 hits, or make the most faster like anvil so they aren't stunned longer, but we can get off all three?
I just think a conq spec Iron Vangard will still be the best with the threat rush being our only way to close a gap consistently with a fleeing target. Now that frontline is out for pvp. We'll have lunging, bulls, and no other GO TO move. Knee Breaker is weak, Anvil is fun, but won't be necessary now that GWF's resistance is so low. I think Knight's Challenge will start to be more widely used which is ok. But there really is no GREAT third encounter to match lunging and bull charge. Sure we can roll knight's valor, but I really think fixing griffon's wrath so it is more "usable" would be a sweet idea.
Seems like time based guard meter is going to stay from reading Gentlemancrush's posts. That's rather unfortunate. If that will be the case, at least timer should only work when being attacked because I don't think increasing the timer will make a huge difference PvP-wise, shield will never be responsive enough to make that work. So those are my suggestions:
1)Make shield timer count only when under attack.
2)Reduce movement speed when blocking to make it a trade-off between mobility and survivability. So people won't go everywhere shield up. Animation looks silly anyway.
I really like the shied up full mobility. Every other class has a way to GTFO so to speak when it comes to a hairy situation. GF's could know slow into the fray when they see a mob coming, and just shield up and take off. Yeah it would be seen as OP, but a rogue can stealth and run, and archer can dodge away or go invis, and GWF can sprint and they now have CC immunity when sprinting a cw can control you and take off. Guardians need a way to do that too
Seems like time based guard meter is going to stay from reading Gentlemancrush's posts. That's rather unfortunate. If that will be the case, at least timer should only work when being attacked because I don't think increasing the timer will make a huge difference PvP-wise, shield will never be responsive enough to make that work. So those are my suggestions:
1)Make shield timer count only when under attack.
2)Reduce movement speed when blocking to make it a trade-off between mobility and survivability. So people won't go everywhere shield up. Animation looks silly anyway.
Yes, If the guard meter didn't diminish until it was hit then I can see it being more useful.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Though these changes seem nice, I am concerned what a GF brings to the party. Theres a reason GFs are not desirable, is because they do not need a tank. These new changes are in the right direction (with gwfs have less survivability), but people want GFs?
gaining all those threat bonuses is more of a problem than a boon because right now GFs cannot take that kind of punishment not like a GWF can, unless you buff protector tree (which then means very low damage, and conqueror currently is too low to warrant a space).
GFs either need very good team offensive buffs or a boost in dps as a class (not feats/trees).
Something like... when allies are affected by knights valor their power is increased by xx%, or into the fray adds +xx% attack speed.
We are also well aware that Guardians can no longer preemptively just hold up their shield indefinitely. We want Guardians to have to choose their timing more carefully but be rewarded for doing so, and the new block system provided much more of that feeling during our internal testing.
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I completely understand your reasoning behind this line of thought. However as someone who has played Domination PvP at the very highest level this game has to offer for as long as its has been released, I would like to offer this for you to consider:
The ability to preemptively block adds a level of complexity to the game. It can be used to bait, discourage, distract, intimidate, and disrupt rotations.
The ability to hold up block preemptively only becomes silly when block is applied to a 360 degree bubble around the GF. It should not be this way in PvP. The dynamics created in the type of action combat neverwinter offers when mechanics like these exist are very exciting!
For Example: The GF can hold up block to discourage attacks, now enemy players have to maneuver around block, and the GF has to keep up with their movement while trying to find an opening for attack. This creates an AMAZING level of strategy involving footwork, and cooperative play among teammates. Its THAT type of game play that attracts PvP enthusiasts like myself.
Several of the changes being implemented in Mod 4 have 2 versions, a PvP version and a PvE version. I understand how a 360 block mechanic in PvE (especially when dealing with aoe) is NECESSARY.
It needs to be different in PvP. I do not even agree with the change made a while back where GF can block AOE from any direction in PvP. The GF should have to be facing the source of the AOE, or should not be able to block it at all no matter what. This helps to prevent Block from being OP.
There is a video of an amazing 1v1 match between 2 GF's (Facecontrol and King Calous) that demonstrates this pretty well, although fights against other classes can demonstrate it even better. (It can be found on King Calous's youtube channel and is highlighted on his twitch if you desire better video quality) This doesn't just apply to GF vs GF, it works with many classes (Dodging through the GF then applying CC for CW's and TR's, DC's dodge/knockback combo, ect ect.)
i must say this new block is infuriating if anything, old blocks depletion rate sucked and now the stamina drain block is even worse at least before i could preemptive block while on a node now the way it's looking ill just be running round half the time with my head cut off. i wouldnt mind having it the old way if the just lowered the rate at which dmg drained it. still doesnt help that block to me is the worst shift mechanic in the game
One that is huge for PvP: With a stamina the guard meter shouldn't be seen by enemy players. Traditionally I would whittle away their shield with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> attacks, then unload the heavy hitters when their shield is gone or close to gone. That can't be done anymore if the GF is prudent with their stamina use.
The main problem with these 2 encounters is that they trigger the CD even if you miss the target, when I used my HR it was pretty handy to don't have to wait +10 seconds when I missed Fox Shift, because I could use it to detect a stealth TR, and to begin with, even if it's not the case, to use it and wait another +10 seconds just because you missed the target for lag (or whatever reason) is a pain...., I wonder, why we can't have the same thing on our GF?, is it much to ask?, also, I find that Knee Breaker could have a little damage buff because it's very weak...
Weapons Damage
This is the other thing that I wanted to mention, you could check them and I'm sure you would agree that they need a little buff, our weapon's damage are worse than the weapons of the controller and support class, like CW or DC, since we are Tanks/Supporters (or whatever) we shouldn't have big numbers, but I think that we could have at least 10% more damage (note that we would still be the class with worst weapon damage, even with the 10% buff), because, at least we are still fighters, and the weapon is the best tool to defend our team .
As for the reasoning as to why we changed block the way we did I have to explain how old block worked and why it was problematic. Old block functioned as a secondary HP bar that was calculated based on your maximum HP and feats, and could not be drained more than 20% in any single hit. While this sounds good on paper in practice it actually means that when you manage to pull aggro on enough targets you end up getting the whole meter drained out rapidly (sometimes in only 5 hits depending on how strong the foes were). This then left the Guardian with no tools left in his kit. It also provided complete damage protection which meant that healers had to be ready for large spikes of incoming burst damage, and the only way to respond to that in time was to have a lot of heal over time effects rolling so that when those spikes of damage came in there were heals already coming in.
Thanks for the info, though it really doesn't explain the reasoning behind the changes to me.
You could have:
- scaled the damage that the guard bar takes
- make all hits within 1 second count as a single hit
- reduce the maximum amount drained in one hit (this shouldn't be necessary after adjusting the damage though)
- add guard bar recovery to more moves/make it recover more
There were so many ways you could've improved the guard mechanic without completely remaking it (and in a way that feels terrible to play).
As for healer interaction, you could put a "Damage threshold" value on shields, like weapons have weapon damage. That way it would still be possible to completely block weaker hits, and only powerful attacks would "leak" through.
there is no possible way a GF can raise his block before entangling hits going by the animation que
Not just entangling there are bunch of powers that you simply can't block even if you and your opponent pressed the button at the same time. So trying to block any of those powers will result in shield being wasted before the attacks. As a result this is not adding a new challenge for GFs and rewarding the ones who have better timing as said by Gentlemancrush. It's just making block broken for those situations.
Making block drain triggered only when being attacked will have no effect at all in PvE but will save the class from being even weaker in PvP, and in my opinion it is necessary.
Suggestions:
1) Enemies shouldn't be allowed to see our ward meter just like we cant se their stamina, stealth meter, etc
2) If you are going to do swordmaster the dps parangon for Gf, boost the damage for all powers not just 2
3)Improve interaction between Tab and the other powers just like other classes have and make it usefull in PVP ( i do PVP all the time and the mark as no real use) for the guardian. We are not buff pets for our team.
4) Increase the animation speed of powers we use in PVP like Griffon, anvil, flourish, and our at wills, they are to slow to be efficient.
5) Please attend to the parangon feats. I believe the final feats for all paragons are to week, conquerors last feat doesnt boost dps substantially neither defender diminish enough damage and the AP gained bi the tactician last feat is insignificant.
6) Give Guardians a way to scape or to be invulnerable for a few seconds if ward is brooken and HP is bellow 25%. All the other clases have at least 2 ways to avoid damage and we only 1 so far.
Excuse mi bad english.
Played around in the Undead Invasion in Dwarven Valley today to test the new guard mechanic with 50% DR, 30% Deflect, 1.4k Regen, 1k Life Steal.
The mobility is an absolute plus and very much needed, but overall I'm torn.
On live, my Guard breaks in a matter of one or two seconds, but I have my full life bar to soak up the next hits, fire off Iron Warrior, Tide of Iron or Enforced Threat, guard a few hits again, fire off Fighter's Recovery and repeat.
On PTS I guarded way more attacks against these LVL62 Wights and Commanders, but because I took sustained damage, I didn't really feel more comfortable. I fought five max so maybe this wasn't the best environment for the new mechanic, but to me it looks like the 20% pass-through damage can get you into trouble the same way an instantly broken guard can on live.
Also, my gut feeling is that I did create a little more APs on live.
Bug: Guard Break
Most of the time once all your Stamina is drained the Guard doesn't break, the GF just stops guarding.
Instead, the system fires off Guard Breaks randomly when your Stamina is still filled. You start guarding, at 50% (or whatever) the guard meter turns red, but the char remains in guard motion and is actually still guarding according to the ACT:
The marked Guard Break appeared at ~40% of the Stamina and you can see that the following attacks are still correctly being guarded although the system continues to fire a series of additional Breaks.
What ? gf needed a buff not a nerf, having our shield deplete on stamina is so bad because we rely on that to protect ourselfs against wizards and perma rogues now we have to have our shield lowered 90% of the time just to be careful not to waste it ???
Also why does our shield now only block 80% dmg lol ? we need to block 100% and we don't need dmg buff like many people think, we are a tank class so make us like a tank, make our shield very very strong, don't make us so we cant even hold our shield up when we want and take dmg while doing it or then the gf may as well just discard there shield.
I agree with all of lvl99looter's ideas he is a gf who knows what hes talking about and thats good to see here but i would say that a gf needs more than 35% deflection. a gwf specced right can have access to 50% chance even if it requires them to hit a target 5 times its still strong, and a rogue and ranger can get 40% easy so why the class with a huge shield gets a low amount is something i really don't understand unless the word deflect means something different in this game.
This shield change will crush gf we will not be able to beat any other class 1v1 in pvp and in pve we will be even less tanky, gf will be unplayable...
I agree, I would say that plate agility should give 2/4/6/8/10 Deflect Chance and Shield Defence 2/4/6/8/10 AC, we are speaking about defence, it should come naturally to us... and 1/2/3/4/5 is very little...
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stagger38Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited June 2014
Changes I would like to see made to the Protector tree feats. Aims to make a non-DPS/lifesteal GF viable in PvE and PvP. Allows survival and party buff builds. Based on the first PTS iteration of stamina and block, and stays close to the original feats. Might need adjustment if the planned stamina increase occurs.
Rank 1: Armor of Bahamut: Return 2/4/6/8/10% of damage received while blocking to the attacker (before Damage Resistance is applied).
Example: Blocking a 10k hit would return 1k to the attacker. Against an attacker with 35% DR, the final damage would be 650.
Rank 1: Plate Agility: Increase Deflect Chance by 2/4/6/8/10%.
Rank 2: Shield Defense: Gain 2/4/6/8/10 AC, and increase stamina duration by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 second.
Rank 2 (Iron Vanguard): Improved Reaction: Ferocious Reaction heals an additional 2/4/6/8/10%, and its cooldown is reduced by 20/40/60/80/100 seconds.
Rank 2 (Swordmaster): Staying Power: Weapon Master's Strike reduces Defense by 2/4/6/8/10% for 3 seconds (non-stacking), and regenerates 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5% stamina for each target hit.
Example: Hitting 3 targets would regenerate 7.5% stamina, and each target's Defense is reduced by 10% for 3 seconds.
Rank 3: Shieldmaster: Increase Damage Resistance while blocking by 1/2/3/4/5%, and increase stamina duration by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 second.
Rank 3: Brawling Warrior: Knight's Valor increases Damage Resistance by 1/2/3/4/5% for you and your party, and Enforced Threat deals 4/8/12/16/20% more damage and 20/40/60/80/100% more threat.
Rank 4: Balanced Shield Fighter: Your Shield Slam and Stab deal 4/8/12/16/20% more damage, and stamina duration is increased by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 second.
Rank 4: Overwhelming Impact: Your Encounter powers reduce Damage Resistance by 1/2/3/4/5% for 5 seconds (non-stacking), and generate 4/8/12/16/20% more threat.
Rank 5: Iron Guard: When hit, reduce the attacker's damage by 2% for 30 seconds and gain 1 stack of Fortitude. Maximum 10% damage reduction. At 15 stacks of Fortitude, heal for 10% of your missing Hit Points. May only heal once every 5 seconds.
A huge improvement to the Protector feats. Plenty of party and combo utility. Could create some diversity in GF builds, and makes the class far more interesting to play and fight against.
Why are folks so against being able to run while blocking? Standing still on the battlefield in both PVP and PVE is not a good idea at all, especially now in PVE with the escalation in threat. This will improve our mobility as well us go some way to aiding survivability as we can now actually run away from and block red whereas in Live we have to either eat the red or watch our shield explode into dust.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
The new block system has two main problems compared with the old system:
The first and main issue is that the Stamina/Guard meter depletes while holding the shield up no matter if you take damage or not.
The second problem is timing the shield block so you get its full potential, with the new system lag (CPU, Graphic card, Internet connection) its much more of a problem then with the old system, because with the old system you could just put your shield up until damage eats it away while with this system you need to time it or you going to lose the shield because your Stamina ran out.
A lot of people already commented on this that in PvM the new system is amazing because you could take endless amount of damage without it breaking your shield which is a big plus that this system has over the old one, the problem is that in PvP this amazing feature is horrible because unlike an NPC a player has no incentive to attack a GF while his shield is up, he will just wait for the GF Stamina to run out and the shield to drop.
What I suggest in order to deal with these problems is to combine both of the systems strengths, by giving the shield charges similar to the way Barkshield enchantments work it will give the opposing player an incentive to attack because unless he is attacking, that shield isn't going down. Unlike the Barkshield enchantment that each charge gives a X amount of damage "eaten" by the enchantment in the blocking system I'm suggesting each charge of the shield will have a X amount of time the shield is up and the charges recharge after all the charges are depleted. Lets say for argument sake 5-6 charges of one second each, that means that a player needs to hit the GF at least once each second over a period of 5-6 seconds in order to deplete his shield as long as the shield is up, but those 5 or 6 hits will provide the GF 5 or 6 seconds of block time. This suggested system will feel exactly the same as the new system in PvM because NPCs always hit you so you will get that X time of shield blocking damage and it will feel similar to the old system in PvP because you could just hold your shield up the same way you do now until you get hit and the shield breaks.
After preview CN 1/4, "rainbow party": GF (random) cant handle mobs or protect us with KV because died too many times (like others). Vote for 100% block lasts longer than 5 secs - PvE.
Comments
Also remember that no class lives in a vacuum.
There is an 80% hard cap on damage resistance. The magic number a GF needs to consistently meet that hard cap if they have a competent DO DC in their group is 44.33% DR. Which is easily gotten with blue level 60 gear.
A DO DC can use feated Foresight to provide 11% DR.
Any DC can use Astral Shield to increase DR by 24.67%. This has an up time of 10 seconds every 15 seconds for a decently equipt DC.
For the time that Astral Shield is down, a DC can provide Hallowed Ground for a 30% DR during clutch times.
By chaining Astral Shield and Hallowed Ground, a DO DC allows the GF to be at the 80% DR hard cap for over a minute without interruption, if they use the DC artifact: AS=HG=AS=HG=AS. Then they can maintain the 80% hard cap 2/3 of the time or until their AP is gained back to cast Hallowed Ground again.
The Blocking damage resist is on top of the hard cap. So when the GF is at the hard cap of 80%, then when they block they will only take 4% damage. That 4% damage is further mitigated with Deflection, which IMHO is way to low in number to be worth actively pursuing. I think it best to put into Lifesteal, HP, and Regen after you get your Defense to around 3500. But that all needs to be tested when they make the changes on test.
The big issue with the new block has been brought up...the LAG monster. The lag monster will be the bane of any quick use of abilities. Making it more difficult to use a GF from around the world. Since the new block is supposed to be quickly put up to block the big attacks, then put back down again for DPS.
I was testing this out today in dread ring. I was trying to see how many mobs I can easily tank with my conq build and timeless set. I had at one point 26 guys around me. On my bar I had lunge, iron guard, and enforced threat. Terrifying impact and fighters recovery as Dailies, I was using the devoted artifact for quicker dailies. TR and cleave as my at-wills and trample the fallen and shield (the thing that raises the shield meter) as passives.
I did fairly well. It took me a little bit to whittle them down but between ET and TI I had them bunched and on the ground. In between I used shield (with extra mobility) I was able to position myself rather well and quick. I only had to pop FR once and with ET I had full health in one encounter power.
I popped Iron Guard quite a lot to get my shield to regen faster. My shield lasted 6-7 seconds each time I put it up and I was able to put it back up after a few seconds on cool down once popping IG. It wasn't a full shield but didn't matter since it is time based now not hp based.
If I got rid of lunging strike and used frontline surge it probably would have been better keeping everything on the ground. The added mobility with the shield up helps us a ton. And once they get rid of the charges on Tr, that will probably be my new set up. IG,FL,ET.
My GS is only a 13.6 so I'm not a uber geared Gf and I did fairly well. With a boost in the shield length I think I'm going to love it. I solo a lot and it will take me longer to do things but I also run a lot of dungeons and can see the benefits of the new ET. A GWF came around while I was testing and I would bunch everything around me and he would kill them all while I kept them on the ground. We worked well together. He didn't have to worry about aggro. I had it the whole time.
For that matter, can we not have our remaining guard be emblazoned over our heads like a giant "hit me now!" sign? This "feature" is absolutely absurd.
If you are going to keep that around, though, can all the other classes have similar bars showing how much stamina/sprint they have left too? I would definitely like to know when I won't be wasting an encounter or daily on a HR/TR/CW, as other classes have the privilege of knowing with GFs.
AHHHHHHHH! Thats would be a great idea.....
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Maybe, 8 second cooldown per hit instead of 12, and allow the stun to be long enough to use all 3 hits, or make the most faster like anvil so they aren't stunned longer, but we can get off all three?
I just think a conq spec Iron Vangard will still be the best with the threat rush being our only way to close a gap consistently with a fleeing target. Now that frontline is out for pvp. We'll have lunging, bulls, and no other GO TO move. Knee Breaker is weak, Anvil is fun, but won't be necessary now that GWF's resistance is so low. I think Knight's Challenge will start to be more widely used which is ok. But there really is no GREAT third encounter to match lunging and bull charge. Sure we can roll knight's valor, but I really think fixing griffon's wrath so it is more "usable" would be a sweet idea.
1)Make shield timer count only when under attack.
2)Reduce movement speed when blocking to make it a trade-off between mobility and survivability. So people won't go everywhere shield up. Animation looks silly anyway.
Knights challenge is it buggy
Please expand this as saying something is buggy is like saying boiling water is steamy. How is it buggy?
-Ambisinisterr
It only bugs out if you don't finish the animation and try and attack before your guy goes red and the red line b/w you and the other guy shows up.
Yes, If the guard meter didn't diminish until it was hit then I can see it being more useful.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
gaining all those threat bonuses is more of a problem than a boon because right now GFs cannot take that kind of punishment not like a GWF can, unless you buff protector tree (which then means very low damage, and conqueror currently is too low to warrant a space).
GFs either need very good team offensive buffs or a boost in dps as a class (not feats/trees).
Something like... when allies are affected by knights valor their power is increased by xx%, or into the fray adds +xx% attack speed.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I completely understand your reasoning behind this line of thought. However as someone who has played Domination PvP at the very highest level this game has to offer for as long as its has been released, I would like to offer this for you to consider:
The ability to preemptively block adds a level of complexity to the game. It can be used to bait, discourage, distract, intimidate, and disrupt rotations.
The ability to hold up block preemptively only becomes silly when block is applied to a 360 degree bubble around the GF. It should not be this way in PvP. The dynamics created in the type of action combat neverwinter offers when mechanics like these exist are very exciting!
For Example: The GF can hold up block to discourage attacks, now enemy players have to maneuver around block, and the GF has to keep up with their movement while trying to find an opening for attack. This creates an AMAZING level of strategy involving footwork, and cooperative play among teammates. Its THAT type of game play that attracts PvP enthusiasts like myself.
Several of the changes being implemented in Mod 4 have 2 versions, a PvP version and a PvE version. I understand how a 360 block mechanic in PvE (especially when dealing with aoe) is NECESSARY.
It needs to be different in PvP. I do not even agree with the change made a while back where GF can block AOE from any direction in PvP. The GF should have to be facing the source of the AOE, or should not be able to block it at all no matter what. This helps to prevent Block from being OP.
There is a video of an amazing 1v1 match between 2 GF's (Facecontrol and King Calous) that demonstrates this pretty well, although fights against other classes can demonstrate it even better. (It can be found on King Calous's youtube channel and is highlighted on his twitch if you desire better video quality) This doesn't just apply to GF vs GF, it works with many classes (Dodging through the GF then applying CC for CW's and TR's, DC's dodge/knockback combo, ect ect.)
Knee Breaker & Griffon's Wrath:
The main problem with these 2 encounters is that they trigger the CD even if you miss the target, when I used my HR it was pretty handy to don't have to wait +10 seconds when I missed Fox Shift, because I could use it to detect a stealth TR, and to begin with, even if it's not the case, to use it and wait another +10 seconds just because you missed the target for lag (or whatever reason) is a pain...., I wonder, why we can't have the same thing on our GF?, is it much to ask?, also, I find that Knee Breaker could have a little damage buff because it's very weak...
Weapons Damage
This is the other thing that I wanted to mention, you could check them and I'm sure you would agree that they need a little buff, our weapon's damage are worse than the weapons of the controller and support class, like CW or DC, since we are Tanks/Supporters (or whatever) we shouldn't have big numbers, but I think that we could have at least 10% more damage (note that we would still be the class with worst weapon damage, even with the 10% buff), because, at least we are still fighters, and the weapon is the best tool to defend our team
For example, for the ancient weapons we have:
GF: 537-656
CW: 626/765
HR: 626/765
DC: 671/820
GWF: 752/919
TR: 402/492 + 402/492 = 804/984
You can see that numbers are horrible for GF...
You could have:
- scaled the damage that the guard bar takes
- make all hits within 1 second count as a single hit
- reduce the maximum amount drained in one hit (this shouldn't be necessary after adjusting the damage though)
- add guard bar recovery to more moves/make it recover more
There were so many ways you could've improved the guard mechanic without completely remaking it (and in a way that feels terrible to play).
As for healer interaction, you could put a "Damage threshold" value on shields, like weapons have weapon damage. That way it would still be possible to completely block weaker hits, and only powerful attacks would "leak" through.
Not just entangling there are bunch of powers that you simply can't block even if you and your opponent pressed the button at the same time. So trying to block any of those powers will result in shield being wasted before the attacks. As a result this is not adding a new challenge for GFs and rewarding the ones who have better timing as said by Gentlemancrush. It's just making block broken for those situations.
Making block drain triggered only when being attacked will have no effect at all in PvE but will save the class from being even weaker in PvP, and in my opinion it is necessary.
1) Enemies shouldn't be allowed to see our ward meter just like we cant se their stamina, stealth meter, etc
2) If you are going to do swordmaster the dps parangon for Gf, boost the damage for all powers not just 2
3)Improve interaction between Tab and the other powers just like other classes have and make it usefull in PVP ( i do PVP all the time and the mark as no real use) for the guardian. We are not buff pets for our team.
4) Increase the animation speed of powers we use in PVP like Griffon, anvil, flourish, and our at wills, they are to slow to be efficient.
5) Please attend to the parangon feats. I believe the final feats for all paragons are to week, conquerors last feat doesnt boost dps substantially neither defender diminish enough damage and the AP gained bi the tactician last feat is insignificant.
6) Give Guardians a way to scape or to be invulnerable for a few seconds if ward is brooken and HP is bellow 25%. All the other clases have at least 2 ways to avoid damage and we only 1 so far.
Excuse mi bad english.
The mobility is an absolute plus and very much needed, but overall I'm torn.
On live, my Guard breaks in a matter of one or two seconds, but I have my full life bar to soak up the next hits, fire off Iron Warrior, Tide of Iron or Enforced Threat, guard a few hits again, fire off Fighter's Recovery and repeat.
On PTS I guarded way more attacks against these LVL62 Wights and Commanders, but because I took sustained damage, I didn't really feel more comfortable. I fought five max so maybe this wasn't the best environment for the new mechanic, but to me it looks like the 20% pass-through damage can get you into trouble the same way an instantly broken guard can on live.
Also, my gut feeling is that I did create a little more APs on live.
Bug: Guard Break
Most of the time once all your Stamina is drained the Guard doesn't break, the GF just stops guarding.
Instead, the system fires off Guard Breaks randomly when your Stamina is still filled. You start guarding, at 50% (or whatever) the guard meter turns red, but the char remains in guard motion and is actually still guarding according to the ACT:
The marked Guard Break appeared at ~40% of the Stamina and you can see that the following attacks are still correctly being guarded although the system continues to fire a series of additional Breaks.
Also why does our shield now only block 80% dmg lol ? we need to block 100% and we don't need dmg buff like many people think, we are a tank class so make us like a tank, make our shield very very strong, don't make us so we cant even hold our shield up when we want and take dmg while doing it or then the gf may as well just discard there shield.
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This shield change will crush gf we will not be able to beat any other class 1v1 in pvp and in pve we will be even less tanky, gf will be unplayable...
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Rank 1: Armor of Bahamut: Return 2/4/6/8/10% of damage received while blocking to the attacker (before Damage Resistance is applied).
Example: Blocking a 10k hit would return 1k to the attacker. Against an attacker with 35% DR, the final damage would be 650.
Rank 1: Plate Agility: Increase Deflect Chance by 2/4/6/8/10%.
Rank 2: Shield Defense: Gain 2/4/6/8/10 AC, and increase stamina duration by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 second.
Rank 2 (Iron Vanguard): Improved Reaction: Ferocious Reaction heals an additional 2/4/6/8/10%, and its cooldown is reduced by 20/40/60/80/100 seconds.
Rank 2 (Swordmaster): Staying Power: Weapon Master's Strike reduces Defense by 2/4/6/8/10% for 3 seconds (non-stacking), and regenerates 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5% stamina for each target hit.
Example: Hitting 3 targets would regenerate 7.5% stamina, and each target's Defense is reduced by 10% for 3 seconds.
Rank 3: Shieldmaster: Increase Damage Resistance while blocking by 1/2/3/4/5%, and increase stamina duration by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 second.
Rank 3: Brawling Warrior: Knight's Valor increases Damage Resistance by 1/2/3/4/5% for you and your party, and Enforced Threat deals 4/8/12/16/20% more damage and 20/40/60/80/100% more threat.
Rank 4: Balanced Shield Fighter: Your Shield Slam and Stab deal 4/8/12/16/20% more damage, and stamina duration is increased by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 second.
Rank 4: Overwhelming Impact: Your Encounter powers reduce Damage Resistance by 1/2/3/4/5% for 5 seconds (non-stacking), and generate 4/8/12/16/20% more threat.
Rank 5: Iron Guard: When hit, reduce the attacker's damage by 2% for 30 seconds and gain 1 stack of Fortitude. Maximum 10% damage reduction. At 15 stacks of Fortitude, heal for 10% of your missing Hit Points. May only heal once every 5 seconds.
A huge improvement to the Protector feats. Plenty of party and combo utility. Could create some diversity in GF builds, and makes the class far more interesting to play and fight against.
Edit: Fixed Staying Power example.
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The new block system has two main problems compared with the old system:
The first and main issue is that the Stamina/Guard meter depletes while holding the shield up no matter if you take damage or not.
The second problem is timing the shield block so you get its full potential, with the new system lag (CPU, Graphic card, Internet connection) its much more of a problem then with the old system, because with the old system you could just put your shield up until damage eats it away while with this system you need to time it or you going to lose the shield because your Stamina ran out.
A lot of people already commented on this that in PvM the new system is amazing because you could take endless amount of damage without it breaking your shield which is a big plus that this system has over the old one, the problem is that in PvP this amazing feature is horrible because unlike an NPC a player has no incentive to attack a GF while his shield is up, he will just wait for the GF Stamina to run out and the shield to drop.
What I suggest in order to deal with these problems is to combine both of the systems strengths, by giving the shield charges similar to the way Barkshield enchantments work it will give the opposing player an incentive to attack because unless he is attacking, that shield isn't going down. Unlike the Barkshield enchantment that each charge gives a X amount of damage "eaten" by the enchantment in the blocking system I'm suggesting each charge of the shield will have a X amount of time the shield is up and the charges recharge after all the charges are depleted. Lets say for argument sake 5-6 charges of one second each, that means that a player needs to hit the GF at least once each second over a period of 5-6 seconds in order to deplete his shield as long as the shield is up, but those 5 or 6 hits will provide the GF 5 or 6 seconds of block time. This suggested system will feel exactly the same as the new system in PvM because NPCs always hit you so you will get that X time of shield blocking damage and it will feel similar to the old system in PvP because you could just hold your shield up the same way you do now until you get hit and the shield breaks.