I play a GF as my main, so I cannot comment on the other classes with too much knowledge.
First, this second nerf to Frontline Surge and added nerf to Threatening Rush is due to the cross-pollination of the GWF and the GF paragon classes. The reduction of damage and prone length to FS in the first nerf, and now the change from prone to stun, is because of the base damage that the GWF can do while using FS. The GF, with 1/2 the damage of the GWF, needed the prone to be more equal. Also, it is yet unknown how a change from Prone to Stun affects other feats as well as companion choice (e.g., the Panther's 10% damage bonus to Prone targets). The shift is not a small one. Here is an idea, Cryptic. How about you create a separate paragon path for the GWF, and restore the GF back to original stats for FS? In addition, if you do keep the Threatening Rush change as described, you undo the very kind of skill it is designed to be...At-Will. At-Will means that as long as I press it for an option, it works (with animation delays of course). But, a cooldown timer is not an At-Will. Cooldown timers are Encounter powers. Are you removing Threatening Rush as an At-Will and making it an Encounter power? Actually, if this is the case, I would not be so disturbed. First, make its cooldown affected by recovery as everything else. Second, I can slot it instead of FS and use it to mark everything in PvP as an encounter that can go with Bronzewood affects. But, if you keep it as an At-Will, it is no longer an At-Will. Or how about giving the GF another At-Will short range distance closer to keep up with every other class that can port, jump, skip, or run away?
Second, I like the added hitpoints and boosted threat. This will boost the value of regeneration as well. I could see the GF becoming a real tank now. And with the nerfs to the dps machines in PvE (the CW) and PvP (the GWF), maybe, just maybe a tanky GF would not be a tag-along or a middling interloper who is target practice for uber HRs and TRs.
Third, the changes to Guard Meter and how it reduces damage will need to be tested. Is it 80% damage is absorbed, and then all the GF stats come into play with the remaining 20%? Or is it 80% absorbed, and 20% will hit all the time? It could be very good, or slightly better.
Fourth, the change to Armor of Bahamut is sufficiently enticing to consider it for 5 feats. Why? Reduction of 10% damage at low stamina may...I repeat...may be better than a boost in AC by 5 (or DR by 2.5%, other feats included). In fact, the protector path may be worth the damage mitigation: 5% added deflect (permanent), 10% reduction of damage loss when stamina is low, 10% reduction in loss to stamina (permanent), 15% damage increase to stab and shield slam (permanent), and 10% reduction of damage to foe with 5 hits.... So, imagine the scenario where a GF has Full Protector as above, 50% DR, full stamina, epic leprechaun (10% AoE damage reduction), epic honey badger (10% damage reduction below 35% hit points), 42k hit points and 13% regeneration. Me likey!!!!
Interesting to see how CW changes work. It was fun class play on Pve only, but now it seems coming near "Nerf to Death". Maybe need make "Perma Stealth TR" for fun or is there new Class coming?
People please test these changes on preview before just out and out bashing the changes or the game. These changes are needed. Some may be over the top or might not, but will not know until it is tested. As far as anyone knows, these changes could actually be good and make things a challenge aka dungeons or pvp. No more steamrolling in either just by playing certain classes. I for one look forward to testing these as I did mod 3, and initial beta.
TEST TEST TEST AND PROVIDE FEEDBACK THAT CAN BE WORKED WITH.
Well im exited for all that hr changes i was angry at him today.All that cw channeling hmmm well see how it will work out. Maybe hr will now be picked to dungeons instead of cw :)Im counting on that.
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alamosabadboyMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10Arc User
edited June 2014
As a player that plays all the classes and has spent A LOT of real MONEY and TIME in this game PVP & PVE I have to say it is getting harder and harder for me to continue playing this game. The reason is every time there is a patch or new MOD there is usually some nerf to something. That would be OK if the nerfs were not so extreme. I love to play this game but in the end it is not what I want to do with all my free time. With all these nerfs to damage, cast time, stun instead of prone, etc. it takes us longer to complete content or finish PVP games. Problem is everyone wants their character to do it all instead of play tier roles weather its tank, control, aoe everyone wants to top the DPS charts and not get hurt or have consequences for bad playing. I've played D&D since I was a kid and you made a character and played your role and you got through content, nobody cared who was OP. The problem for this game is that you throw in PVP. Major question on the boards is "how do i build my TR, HR, GF, etc. to be godlike at both PVE & PVP. typically it is not possible. In the same sense it is difficult for the devs to balance play between PVP & PVE without damaging the other. I mean everyone complains about people being OP in PVP because it really matters to them to kill or cap a node, and it should, the solution is not to nerf the hell out of every class so it takes longer to clear content and that is what is happening.
The bottom line is: Make your dungeons fit classes to have their roles. We complain because we have classes that don't get used in PVE dungeons because of this. The problem may not be in the class but you content, change your content to fit the classes and not have most dungens mob spammers. If you did this you would solve the "my GF is useless" issues. It would probably ease you PVP vs PVE balance isssues. PVP is not mob adds, thus part of your problem.
Make small changes at a time, don't bring the nerf bat down all the time and make it longer to clear all these hour long dungeons i.e. CW's & GWF's proposed nerfs. Some one has to control, heal, tank, top DPS, stealth, aoe, who's it going to be are the the same roles in PVP?? I don't care if a CW or GWF is tops damage in a dungeon, just like table top D&D. PVP causes the OP complaints because of the kill or be killed factor and the new leader board which compounded complaints. Just make small changes until it's balanced and every class gets points for something or make PVP & PVE changes separate if you can.
Well i like big changes they bring breath of "fresh air".Sure it stinks for someone and smell wonderfull for other but i like it.And still not equality in pvp and pve comes in play each mode needs diffrent aproach and quite hard have one solution.Maybe 2 diffrent version of powers would be good idea switching when you are flaged to pvp.Thats my suggestion.
test for what?it ill end up like always we give negative feedback about the changes and they ill push them on live anyway.
Instead of leaving my first response...ah hell why not.
Not sure what you have been testing but most of the bugs we ( the people I play with there and on live) found during mod 3 were fixed before it went live. Not everything we thought were bugs were actually bugs. And not everything was deemed a high priority to be fixed. And some things were left as is for the devs reasons which we are not privy to. That is how it has been in every game that I beta tested all the way back to Original EQ.
Our feed back for classes changes were listened to, and some things changed and some did not, for whatever reasons the devs had...ie HR split shot damage reduction.
Just an update. Patching finished however the server is unavailable still. I had to restart the patching 3 times for it be able to complete, as it hung 2 times.
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talldsnMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited June 2014
Waited for some corrections in GWF and HR skills, but decided to mess around with all classes, intensely worse mages.
I love the fact that the Armour pen is now fixed cant wait to see if i deal more or less damage on my CW now that there debuffed like crazy but we will get through this >.<
A lot of changes for the most played classes, developers will need to be strong now. I hope that they will have enough support, if this balance patch is dropped then they will become fragilized before community.
Ok, so let the testing start and see how things work out. I just fear the Guardian Fighter could be a bit overstrained with so much Threat even with that change to constitution; I think there is something to be done with the other defensive stats for a GF but -- first there are some tests to be done.
Crazy, how much people here breathe fire and brimstone ...
As being a GF i want to say that we finally get what we deserve.
By nerving some other classes will hopefully result in a return of the need of a GF in groups because they are made to absorb a lot of damage which would be otherwise delivered by fellow group members.. especially by Cleric's.
khalelMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited June 2014
I was expecting some changes to classes but wow... just wow.. so many things to try on preview.
I only read the forums and do not reply to threads but I cannot help it this time.
The nerfs in damage is what I expected but longer casting times with longer cooldown is not really needed on some powers.
Also, not happy about the debuff mechanics for the whole party and the 8 mob capping of arcane singularity.
Arcane do not deal that much damage so why reduce the mobs that can be controlled?
I have a CW and I really think they do deserve some toning down but with all the nerfs, CW's should also have increased control capabilities. *I really do not mind the nerf in damage but decrease in party utility is what worries me.
On the HR though, my first character was a PVE HR, then turned him into PVP because they do not give anything to a PVE party other than secondary DPS and secondary support.(well, I thought I was doing well in PVE until I made a CW and saw how easy it is to kill everything without button smashing). The changes looks promising and glad that HR's can now be a true striker class, I guess I have to respec for PVE again yay!
PVP players will not be happy though.
All in all, I'm glad there are changes and will have to test it first to have a really good idea on what will happen to the game.
Those are coming, it was just announced on their insideneverwinter twitter feed a few days ago, they are in the batch of changes. So I am just guessing those were not ready to preview testing yet.
do not ask for nerfs to other but ask for buffs instead.
This is an illusion. As long as the final outcome brings the classes closer together, it should be considered a good move. How much it does that? Remains to be seen. Buffing the underdog or nerfing the king is essentially the same thing.
Comments
+1 for individual paragon paths.
edit: NVM it's patching now.
Was the same here, big patch as well going slow.
Im more on this side than on Module 4 side..... Seriously...
People please test these changes on preview before just out and out bashing the changes or the game. These changes are needed. Some may be over the top or might not, but will not know until it is tested. As far as anyone knows, these changes could actually be good and make things a challenge aka dungeons or pvp. No more steamrolling in either just by playing certain classes. I for one look forward to testing these as I did mod 3, and initial beta.
TEST TEST TEST AND PROVIDE FEEDBACK THAT CAN BE WORKED WITH.
See you on preview on my HR, GWF, and CW.
The bottom line is: Make your dungeons fit classes to have their roles. We complain because we have classes that don't get used in PVE dungeons because of this. The problem may not be in the class but you content, change your content to fit the classes and not have most dungens mob spammers. If you did this you would solve the "my GF is useless" issues. It would probably ease you PVP vs PVE balance isssues. PVP is not mob adds, thus part of your problem.
Make small changes at a time, don't bring the nerf bat down all the time and make it longer to clear all these hour long dungeons i.e. CW's & GWF's proposed nerfs. Some one has to control, heal, tank, top DPS, stealth, aoe, who's it going to be are the the same roles in PVP?? I don't care if a CW or GWF is tops damage in a dungeon, just like table top D&D. PVP causes the OP complaints because of the kill or be killed factor and the new leader board which compounded complaints. Just make small changes until it's balanced and every class gets points for something or make PVP & PVE changes separate if you can.
Instead of leaving my first response...ah hell why not.
Not sure what you have been testing but most of the bugs we ( the people I play with there and on live) found during mod 3 were fixed before it went live. Not everything we thought were bugs were actually bugs. And not everything was deemed a high priority to be fixed. And some things were left as is for the devs reasons which we are not privy to. That is how it has been in every game that I beta tested all the way back to Original EQ.
Our feed back for classes changes were listened to, and some things changed and some did not, for whatever reasons the devs had...ie HR split shot damage reduction.
Well, since Takedown and FLS are stuns instead of prones, that means ITC can break out of them. Also Roar won't be able to break ITC.
So overall at least vs. GWFs in PVP, pretty substantial TR buffs.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692741-Module-4-Suggestion-Rework-Devoted-Cleric-Heroic-Feats-please&p=8210751&viewfull=1#post8210751
Crazy, how much people here breathe fire and brimstone ...
By nerving some other classes will hopefully result in a return of the need of a GF in groups because they are made to absorb a lot of damage which would be otherwise delivered by fellow group members.. especially by Cleric's.
So,, im pleased with this thought
We have a new PVP king, it is TR once again.
I only read the forums and do not reply to threads but I cannot help it this time.
The nerfs in damage is what I expected but longer casting times with longer cooldown is not really needed on some powers.
Also, not happy about the debuff mechanics for the whole party and the 8 mob capping of arcane singularity.
Arcane do not deal that much damage so why reduce the mobs that can be controlled?
I have a CW and I really think they do deserve some toning down but with all the nerfs, CW's should also have increased control capabilities. *I really do not mind the nerf in damage but decrease in party utility is what worries me.
On the HR though, my first character was a PVE HR, then turned him into PVP because they do not give anything to a PVE party other than secondary DPS and secondary support.(well, I thought I was doing well in PVE until I made a CW and saw how easy it is to kill everything without button smashing). The changes looks promising and glad that HR's can now be a true striker class, I guess I have to respec for PVE again yay!
PVP players will not be happy though.
All in all, I'm glad there are changes and will have to test it first to have a really good idea on what will happen to the game.
Those are coming, it was just announced on their insideneverwinter twitter feed a few days ago, they are in the batch of changes. So I am just guessing those were not ready to preview testing yet.
Preview is now available for testing. We had an internal patching issue we needed to invistigate.
THis is an understatement..."PVP players will not be happy though."
I look forward to testing the changes and providing meaningful and useful feedback.
As I have said in my 2 decades of game mainly MMO testing and playing...do not ask for nerfs to other but ask for buffs instead.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
This is an illusion. As long as the final outcome brings the classes closer together, it should be considered a good move. How much it does that? Remains to be seen. Buffing the underdog or nerfing the king is essentially the same thing.