From a Guardian Fighter's standpoint. I honestly think you listened, ok maybe not listened but appeared to listen a little bit. But here are my thoughts on what you guys tried to do, and what it will actually do.
Block: Now activates more quickly and has a .25 second cooldown after being released (down from .5 seconds).
- Ok finally, you listened to us that we wanted block changed. That is about all I can say here. It was great when we could block exactly when we want to, but granted how much worse the other classes are now after this update I will just say you guys did good so you don't nerf us too.
Constitution: Each point of Constitution increases max HP by 4% (up from 2%)
- Again you guys sort of listened. It wasn't the stats bonuses that were saying you need to change. It was what the stats actually do that needed to be changed. Granted, if the GWF stays the same, CW stays the same, I guess I can't really argue about why you did this because if you did change the allocation the GF's could have competed with GWF's currently, but oh well, it is a start.
Everything With Threat
- Threat was not hard to maintain, would you quit changing threat things, forget threat, don't even look at threat again because threat is such a small issue and it really gets under my nerves when I see threat because it's just silly that people still talk about it.
Mark: Now causes you to deal 200% (up from 100%) additional threat on Marked targets and now grants combat advantage to the Guardian Fighter's Allies.
- Ok ignore the threat HAMSTER whatever that means, it is so silly that that is part of the "big update" to GF's, but skip to the good part. COMBAT ADVANTAGE TO ALLIES. - This is a pretty cool freaking idea. If this was Mod 3 - I'd say you guys are idiots, but with all the other "balances" - it actually could be pretty cool. Granted, you mark a GF he will go down like a mod 4 GWF in a heartbeat!, but still this is kinda cool.
Now... these next two kind of caught me off guard, like REALLY caught me off guard, so I'll try and not curse, or risk this getting deleted..
Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
- From a GF standpoint, we have bull charge, frontline, I guess Griffon's even though it has been so neglected when it could be such a cool move, that is about all we got. Sure, Lunging, Anvil, KC, and Knee Breaker I guess. But that is about all we use for offense. Griffon is too slow to chain together so you can unstoppable out of it not that that even matters anymore lol, you can blink or dodge or slide between so the fact that it is a stun, and if feated can gain a bonus damage to it really becomes irrelevant, and even more so now..... The besy way to land that w/out a daily, was frontline, threat rush, bam bam BAM (sometimes 3rd bam)... But now... you can chalk that off of the list even more. (sure some of you still use it, this isn't about the 1 person who does). But frontline has been our baby guys. It is how we stand and jump around at two and knock people off our CW's and DC's. You are literally putting a dagger in the GF's chest, but even more than that, you are significantly weakening a class to nearly beyond use in that of the GWF. I hate GWf's, hell I even made one once GF's got no love and I face mashed the keyboard with the rest of them, but this is one of many daggers to the chest for that class, and a GF. but not so much as the next one...
Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.
- I'm not sure if it was specified if this is all 3 charges come back in 9 seconds, or just 1 charge every 9 seconds, but you do realize, I mean this in a nice way but you do realize that other than lunging strike, and the new bull charge which should really just go back to the old bull charge, are the ONLY way a GF and a GWF (aside from their 1 second of sprint) can close a gap? Play a GF or GWF on Swordmaster and tell me how fun it is. This is an ability that made the most clanky slow class come alive. A GF can bounce back and forth. Hell even take PVE for example, you can literally run over to help other teammates and use lunging and threat rush to get over there, not to mention mark. PVP, it is how we hit people. Take a swordmaster GF, and watch him try and attack someone.... It is silly, they will dodge the bull charge, and after that lunging, it's just off to the races.... And you may say 3 charges that is a lot... 3 charges will be gone in the blink of an eye.. I'm not saying it hurt us as bad as the GWF's becuase it was our move first. Granted I feel bad complaining at all after what you guys did to the CW's and GWF's, but nerfing this for GF, was wrong. Unless there is a 50% speed boost feat somewhere you ninja nerfed in there, this IS our wheels.
I could talk about what you should have done, but all of you people who hate fighting Guardians, look out. Conq just got a HAMSTER load worse without the ability to close gaps. So you are going to have some damage immune reflecting GF's that will drive you f'n crazy and make these matches last hours and hours and hours. Oh, not to mention even better HR's, literally 1/5 as good GWF's and CW's who got worse, somehow which I didn't think was possibel. Oh, and there will also be this perm guy who doesn't hurt anyone that badly and just stands on a node increasing the game THAT much more lol...
Cryptic, this was the first patch it seems like you even remotely listened to a few of the PVP'ers and even did the first "separation of PVP and PVE" - but you fell way short. I hope you take full advantage of this long time to test/fix/rebalance to you full advantage, because I can promise you if you put this in how it is. You would lose the majority of your pvp population over night.
I will need to run tests on GWF/GF/CW. Unfortunately i retired my HR shortly after i maxed it, so i cannot provide too much feedback there, the damage buffs for pve seem great though, the utility of contricting also make them sound more useful, especially with the support tree (+duration) depending on how far down the trapper path it is.
At a glance
CW
As for the CWs damage nerf changes, i welcome them. just using some previously parsed damage results, taking only the shard/steal time reduction it decreases overall dps by around 10%. Ofcourse there are many other changes that will effect dps but for this one class to hoard all the damage was ridiculous, people will just whine because they are no longer kings.
Shard will basically do the same damage as what steal time does now, but steal time will hit a bit harder than sudden storm does.
The singularity nerf gives room for other classes to play rolls (tanks whether gwf or gf because of the mark changes) and HRs with their aoe grasping roots.
More control from oppressor, sudden storm granting a ton of chills, stun after frozen for 5 seconds... seems great, but what is this "chance" of stun.
The new feat changes look really nice, but will have to see what this "chance" means exactly. The new nightmare wizardry will hurt renegades will require testing, but i can see it not being so useful (prefer it had high frequency of proccing rather than it may or may not even go off in a fight.
That eye of the storm change just made that class feature utter garbage. no one likes ICDs, if you think its too strong weaken it, dont add a ICD on it.
For PvP its hard to say, Most likely going to be at the bottom of the pile, because of the new assailing force (could be very awesome for pvp), as well as oppressor. But those longer cast times. And CWs lack defensive spells,
Rework shield and make it a notable defensive spell, e.g. make it knockback/prone (shard style) if someone hits it whilst it is fully charged. Add prone to repel.
GWF
I love the new unstoppable change, it means I wont fall asleep on the keyboard when i pve with him now, you can no longer dps whilst rolling your face on the keyboard. The CW damage nerf could let GWFs do more damage then CWs, but at a cost of their well-being.
PvP will require sentinel spec to compete with, meaning GWFs will be the same as they are now, but even more deflect (from master of arms) but no longer hold the damage they once did.
With the frontline surge changes to a stun however, They will be harder to kill than they are now. Threatening rush changes will let HRs dance around them. Takedown change was not needed.
Taking away all these prones from PvP will make it hard for teams to kill the other GWFs.
GWFs can now tank in pve, the mark = taunt/threat means daring shout will be their softer equivalent to the GF aoe taunt (along with threatening rush. Given sentinels some ability to gain agro.
My biggest issue in PvE, is when a GWF uses IBS and kills/marks as a non-sentinel spec they will get agro from everything and Instantly die.
GF
New mark is great. and alot more hp. Better guard, better taunt. (hope you get combat advantage too would give use some much needed boost in pvp)
The threatening rush and frontline changes are going to hurt especially frontline in pvp. But threatening rush may not seem as bad as it does due to the mark = taunt change PvE wise (I dont use threatening rush every 9 seconds anyway).
In PvP it may be managable because of bulls charge and lunging, the kiting classes may dance around them. This depends on how well the new guard works.
crimsonsword88Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited June 2014
Hi, I have three quick questions about the control wizard oppressor feat changes:
1) Does controlled momentum still affect the control wizard, or does it only affect allies?
2) Does sudden storm become a control power if the chilling control feat is taken (currently it doesn't)? If so, what is the interaction with the high vizier set bonus (e.g. 1/2/etc. stacks applied to target)?
3) Alacrity has been changed to trigger based on damage dealt rather than enemies killed. Currently, you can only have one patch of icy terrain active at a given time (recasting the spell causes the current patch to disappear). Are there any plans to allow multiple patches of icy terrain to be active simultaneously?
I will need to run tests on GWF/GF/CW. Unfortunately i retired my HR shortly after i maxed it, so i cannot provide too much feedback there, the damage buffs for pve seem great though, the utility of contricting also make them sound more useful, especially with the support tree (+duration) depending on how far down the trapper path it is.
At a glance
CW
As for the CWs damage nerf changes, i welcome them. just using some previously parsed damage results, taking only the shard/steal time reduction it decreases overall dps by around 10%. Ofcourse there are many other changes that will effect dps but for this one class to hoard all the damage was ridiculous, people will just whine because they are no longer kings.
Shard will basically do the same damage as what steal time does now, but steal time will hit a bit harder than sudden storm does.
The singularity nerf gives room for other classes to play rolls (tanks whether gwf or gf because of the mark changes) and HRs with their aoe grasping roots.
More control from oppressor, sudden storm granting a ton of chills, stun after frozen for 5 seconds... seems great, but what is this "chance" of stun.
The new feat changes look really nice, but will have to see what this "chance" means exactly. The new nightmare wizardry will hurt renegades will require testing, but i can see it not being so useful (prefer it had high frequency of proccing rather than it may or may not even go off in a fight.
That eye of the storm change just made that class feature utter garbage. no one likes ICDs, if you think its too strong weaken it, dont add a ICD on it.
For PvP its hard to say, alot of wizard will not even read or understand what the other class changes mean, so it may or may not be a nerf, because of the new assailing force (could be very awesome for pvp), as well as oppressor pvpers.
GWF
I love the new unstoppable change, it means I wont fall asleep on the keyboard when i pve with him now, you can no longer dps whilst rolling your face on the keyboard. The CW damage nerf could let GWFs do more damage then CWs, but at a cost of their well-being.
PvP will most likely require sentinel spec to compete with, meaning GWFs will be the same as they are now, but even more deflect (from master of arms) but no longer hold the damage they once did. with the frontline surge changes to a stun however, They will be harder to kill than they are now. Threatening rush changes will let HRs dance around them.
GWFs can now tank in pve, the mark = taunt/threat means daring shout will be their softer equivalent to the GF aoe taunt (along with threatening rush. Given sentinels some ability to gain agro.
My biggest issue in PvE, is when a GWF uses IBS and kills/marks as a non-sentinel spec they will get agro from everything and Instantly die.
GF
New mark is great. and alot more hp. Better guard, better taunt.
The threatening rush and frontline changes are going to hurt. but it all depends on how well guard works now. threatening rush may not seem as bad as it does due to the mark = taunt change. the kiting classes will dance around them.
I hope TR changes are coming also!
Agreed. Especially with the GWF changes. Now it will be a choice of more damage or more tanky, not both.
My biggest issue in PvE, is when a GWF uses IBS and kills/marks as a non-sentinel spec they will get agro from everything and Instantly die.
I actually forgot that IBS marks too...that won't be fun .
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
edited June 2014
Yo, I was super excited for the new GF buff until I saw they nerfed Frontline & Threatening Rush because of GWFs =/...
Can you guys just write seperate coding for GWFs and GFs for Frontline/Threatening Rush??
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited June 2014
Iron Vanguard
Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.
This, can you stop nerfing the IV path because of GWF, we GF don't have any mobility like the GWF - i don't think putting 3 charges on this will help your GF - think about it we don't have any mobility only the lunging strike now your taking away our Threat rush.
Can you apply the changes to GWF instead of the GF path
This, can you stop nerfing the IV path because of GWF, we GF don't have any mobility like the GWF - i don't think putting 3 charges on this will help your GF - think about it we don't have any mobility only the lunging strike now your taking away our Threat rush.
Can you apply the changes to GWF instead of the GF path
It took a year to apply something in PVP with NPC's still being hit by it normally when before they basically said that was impossible.... Now we know it has been possible this entire time lol.. Poor TR's. Poor, Poor TR's.
Again. You've heard this a lot but you need to listen. Nerfing the GF powers that are OP on GWFs is a big mistake. Again it is hard to admit when you are wrong but giving a closer to a class with sprint was just a bad idea. Nerfing a closer on the only class without sprint or dodge is an even worse idea.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2014
Guys, please keep your responses constructive. Unfortunately a lot of voices just cried out and then vanished causing a great disturbance in the force of this thread.
These notes are all subject to change and are just the initial sweep.
Post your feedback! It will be listened to. Rants may make you feel better but do not foster productive changes or discussions.
[*][*]Roar: This power has been fixed to no longer silence opponents for 2 seconds. Instead it correctly interrupts power usage. If a power is successfully interrupted, that power will be locked out for 2 seconds. This effect will no longer pierce CC immunity. Roar will no longer Root players for 2 seconds.
[*][*]Unstoppable: Unstoppable now grants 5-10% damage resist when activated (down from 25-50%)
This? 80% reduction is utility? Seems way way way over the top. I'll test in PvE to see how much this will impact my GWFs abilities to survive against adds, not a fan of this change at all.
[*][*]Sentinel's Aegis Feat: This feat now causes Unstoppable to grant 5 times more damage resistance in addition to its other effects.
So it basically just keeps it where it was, yes? Seems kinda meh since Sentinel's get Unstoppable less then Destroyers/Instigators, but we'll see. I still think the DR cut of 80% was way to much.
[*][*]Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.
9 Second recharge, in my opinion, is way too high... Unless that refresh cool down is affected by Recovery... If that's the case and it goes down to 5-7 seconds based on Recovery stat I could see it. Still think it's high and could/should be 6 second cool down before a charge is replenished.
Overall I don't see a major change for PvE outside of the Unstoppable DR change which I think is honestly, terrible.
Unless I'm missing something on how Determination is generated, we'll see I suppose...
Guys, please keep your responses constructive. Unfortunately a lot of voices just cried out and then vanished causing a great disturbance in the force of this thread.
These notes are all subject to change and are just the initial sweep.
Post your feedback! It will be listened to. Rants may make you feel better but do not foster productive changes or discussions.
I dont think they realize how much GWFs rely on stuns+Threat rush to even CATCH classes.
Nerfing roar/takedown/FLS I am actually fine with, but that COMBINED with the threat rush nerf AND honestly all of these PALE in comparison to the motherload of nerfs - Unstoppable.
I actually think this unstoppable nerf is the biggest hardest nerf to ever come across neverwinter since open beta - and ive seen ALOT (lurkers to name one major one)
Agreed with everything, specially the last part, prepare to be kitted to death, and unstoppable will be pretty much useless, might aswell remove it altogether .
Agreed with everything, specially the last part, prepare to be kitted to death, and unstoppable will be pretty much useless, might aswell remove it altogether .
Unstoppable will do exactly what it does now if you're specced Sent.
Guys, please keep your responses constructive. Unfortunately a lot of voices just cried out and then vanished causing a great disturbance in the force of this thread.
These notes are all subject to change and are just the initial sweep.
Post your feedback! It will be listened to. Rants may make you feel better but do not foster productive changes or discussions.
- While it is still in the air. Can you take into consideration changing the ability attributes to be that of the GWF.
- Can you increase the stun duration so Griffon's Wrath can hit in succession.
- Can you remove the prone bonus feat, and add it as a stun feat, and maybe give this GWF's as well since they literally are broken and unplayable if these changes go live.
- Can you please look into the HR and see that it is the most unbalanced class out there right now. Use your heads guys.
- Can you look into the TR and fix their damage, watch the youtube videos, every single TR uses the same moves, same dailies, same everything, it's not because they like to copy each other. It is because that is the ONLY thing that works. All of their other moves have been totally nerfed into oblivion. - Can you update the Guardian Fighter's feat %'s..
- For instance, the feat that grants 5% less damage taken for a short time after block. Make it 15%.
- Change Guarded Assault to a 7-10% reflect instead of just 3.
- The freaking protector tree has potential, but it's feats are just awful guys, the final feat is SWEET. But maybe make it a 10 ac boost, 10% deflect (GWF's get 10% with a class feature). Use your head and realize that fixing PVE doesn't fix PVP, fiving PVP - fixes PVE.
- Can you please fix CW's - Regardless of if these actually really will be noticed, you know how few GOOD cw's there are out there? Maybe 5 on the entire server as far as pvp goes. That is being generous to the bottom 1-2. Give them some love guys.
- Mentioned HR's need brought down to the same playing field as other classes since other classes are not being brought up to that.
Ok I tried to be constructive.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Control Wizard
Arcane Singularity: Activation time increased to 2 seconds (up from 1 second) and can affect up to 8 targets (down from 15). wait what? Do you plan to decrease number of adds in dungeons or is it just in name of nerfs? Why this skill is nerfed? Where is control buff in it? Will it hold mobs for longer? Will it add stun? Best controlling skill is just less controling?
Chill Strike: This power has had its recharge time increased to 15 seconds (up from 13 seconds) and now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second). Why? It had already long cast time for PvP players and for worse its CD is increased if it gets CD and cast nerf where is dmg buff?
Chilling Cloud: The final strike of Chilling Cloud now takes 1 second to fire (down from 1.2). I'm not using it so I have no opinion
Conduit of Ice: This power has had its damage reduced by roughly 33%, recharge time reduced to 13 seconds (down from 18 seconds) and now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .98 seconds). I have no idea why and really don't know what to say. It already had low damage but buffed CD might make it better (that cast time though)also it was pretty useless without Assailing Force and with changes to that feat spellstorms thaums have no use of it
Entangling Force: This power has had its total base damage reduced by about 10% overall, now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second) and the damage over time component now ticks every .5 seconds (down from every .65 seconds). That makes no sense at all, PvP has tenacity and number of targets make it useless in PvE
Ice Knife: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from .93 seconds). PvE=meh, PvP=well CW have to stay behind in PvP so..meh
Icy Terrain: This power now ticks every 1 second (down from every 1.3 seconds). that is good one, but I doubt there'll be much diffrence (testing needed)
Magic Missile: The first two strikes are now chained together about 40% slower. The third strike of Magic Missile now takes 1.4 seconds to fire (up from 1.2).testing needed
Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%. testing needed but I doubt it will make much of a diffrence (with AS people will just use this for better control)
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power has had its recharge time increased to 18 seconds (up from 14), now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .9 seconds) allies no longer benefit from the resistance reduction part of this power. best debuff on bosses... now useless for teamplay
Repel: This power can no longer have it's push effect deflected. Damage can still be deflected normally.
Repel: The spell mastery version of this power will ignore control immune targets for the purposes of target selection. good one one repel
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33% and its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%.Ok this power needed damage nerf but where is more control in the place of that damage, or less CD?
Steal Time: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 65% and its recharge time reduced to 18 seconds (down from 22 seconds).well, skill was very good before but I ask you this: with all damage nerfs why do you buff this skill damage instead of buffing its control ability?
Thaumaturge Feats:
Assailing Force: This feat has been reworked i now has the following effect: Dealing damage to foes has a chance to grant you Assailant. When you have Assailant your next encounter power deals 10% of the target's max HP as unresistable damage (max 500% weapon damage). This will only affect one target when used in an AoE.nerfing overall damage on CW and changing this one for pure dps? And only one target? Why change one of party most benefiting feat to "this"
Destructive Wizardry (Paragon: Storm): This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (down from 2/4/5/8/10%) bonus damage. This feat no longer requires you strike at least 2 targets, but now requires you charge Storm Pillar fully. This feat now lasts 20 seconds (up from 6).good change
Drifting Embers (Paragon: Master of Flame): This feat now has a 8/16/24/32/40% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) chance to spread Smoulder to targets. Spellstorm here so no opinion
Elemental Empowerment: This feat has been reworked i now has the following effect: Dealing Cold damage has a 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Creeping Frost. Creeping Frost deals 85% of your weapon damage as cold damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Dealing Arcane damage has a 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Warped Magics. Warped Magics deals 50% of your weapon damage as Arcane damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Warped Magics ignores half of a target's resistance. These effects do not stack. testing needed
Far Spell: Now affects all Single Target powers rather than just Magic Missile and Chill Strike. didn't use it but changes sound good
Frozen Power Transfer: This bonus now stacks up to a maximum of 3 stacks and is refreshed when you gain a new stack. Players will gain one stack for each target hit with the final strike of Chilling Cloud. This bonus now lasts 20 seconds (up from 8).didn't use it, no opinion
Malevolent Surge: This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (down from 2/4/6/8/10%) and no longer stacks. This feat now lasts 15 seconds (up from 4).testing needed but with all damage nerfs and no control buffs (actually with CC nerfs)
Snap Freeze: This feat now grants 2/4/6/8/10% (down from 3/6/9/12/15) bonus damage to your Cold At Wills and Encounters against foes who are not Chilled. didn't use it no opinion
Tempest Magic: This feat now grants 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% (down from 2/4/6/8/10%) bonus damage while targets are below 30% HP.again, damage nerf no control buff
Transcended Master: Shard of Endless Avalanche now gains 2/4/6/8/10% (down from 3/6/9/12/15%) bonus damage. Icy Rays now gains 2/4/5/8/10% bonus damage when cast on the same target twice and a .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 second(s) shorter cooldown when used on two different targets.nerfed SoEA and its feat? MOAR CONTROL
Stormspell Mage
Eye of the Storm: This power now has an ICD of 90 seconds. Base Duration increased to 4 seconds (up from 2). Duration increase per rank increased to 1 (up from .5).so main reason for SS paragon has vanished... why just not change it to something else instead of making it useless; like having 2% (per rank) to add effect that will stun enemies when reaching x stack?
Sudden Storm: This power has had its base damage reduced by roughly 33% and its recharge time increased to 14 seconds (up from 10 seconds). change this power to "Storm Cage" (You trap your enemies in a cage made of lightning and filled with roaring thunder.) and lets leave this "less damage, no CC" nerf shall we?
Heroic Feats
Arcane Enhancement: This feat now grants 1/2/3% (Down from 2/4/6%) ok less damage, where is my CC?
Blighting Power: This feat now grants 2/4/6% (Down from 3/6/9%)see above
Focused Wizardry: This feat has been reworked it now has the following effect: Single target Powers deal 2/4/6% more damage.well, at least I'll have to put my feat points somwhere else but... see above
Wizard's Wrath: This feat now grants 1/2/3% (down from 2/4/6%) CC?
SO.... Thaumaturge Spellstorm is becoming pretty useless, everything on CW gets damage and CD nerfs (with few/one exception/s) and no CC buffs....
Come clean here: is it to make people create Warlocks when they'll be released because I'm pretty sure people will create new characters when new magic class will be released no matter what but... well I just hope warlock won't be "new" CW
Unstoppable will do exactly what it does now if you're specced Sent.
I wish they put 10 sec CD on HR stance switching as well as adding 10 sec CD stance switching decrease on the Ranged or whatever else capstone. "Stance Switching will do exactly what it does now if you're specced Ranged."
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Unstoppable will do exactly what it does now if you're specced Sent.
Duh really??? play with a sentinel GWF right now, and try facing other good players from the other classes good luck, now imagine your take down doing 30% less damage, no more prones, IBS will most likely become impossible to land, a 9 sec cool down on Threatening rush...
C'mon guys, you don't think it's a little nuts for a class that specs pure damage to have a practically spammable ability that gives them 50% DR?
It's still going to give CC-immunity and 10% isn't nothing.
As for Destroyers falling down dead in PVE, I don't think they will any more than CWs do. Maybe it won't be quite as "I can stand in anything no problem", but lifesteal is still going to give big heals.
C'mon guys, you don't think it's a little nuts for a class that specs pure damage to have a practically spammable ability that gives them 50% DR?
It's still going to give CC-immunity and 10% isn't nothing.
As for Destroyers falling down dead in PVE, I don't think they will any more than CWs do. Maybe it won't be quite as "I can stand in anything no problem", but lifesteal is still going to give big heals.
We don't have any dodges, that is why we have unstoppable, we litteraly have to facetank everything, and please don't tell me we have sprint to dodge because that is bs, unless they add a sort of immunity when we sprint, but that would be plain stupid .
We don't have any dodges, that is why we have unstoppable, we litteraly have to facetank everything, and please don't tell me we have sprint to dodge because that is bs, unless they add a sort of immunity when we sprint, but that would be plain stupid .
I get that, but Unstoppable still provides CC-immunity.
And I have a GWF, I know you can sprint out of red areas. It's just that right now there's no reason to- in fact it's beneficial to stand in red because it gives you unstoppable/Godmode that much faster.
I get that, but Unstoppable still provides CC-immunity.
And I have a GWF, I know you can sprint out of red areas. It's just that right now there's no reason to- in fact it's beneficial to stand in red because it gives you unstoppable/Godmode that much faster.
Unstoppable has no immunity frames and sprint will rubberband you back into red routinely. That added to the fact there are dungeons where all the ground in melee range is just red AOE...GG destroyer spec.
Comments
Block: Now activates more quickly and has a .25 second cooldown after being released (down from .5 seconds).
- Ok finally, you listened to us that we wanted block changed. That is about all I can say here. It was great when we could block exactly when we want to, but granted how much worse the other classes are now after this update I will just say you guys did good so you don't nerf us too.
Constitution: Each point of Constitution increases max HP by 4% (up from 2%)
- Again you guys sort of listened. It wasn't the stats bonuses that were saying you need to change. It was what the stats actually do that needed to be changed. Granted, if the GWF stays the same, CW stays the same, I guess I can't really argue about why you did this because if you did change the allocation the GF's could have competed with GWF's currently, but oh well, it is a start.
Everything With Threat
- Threat was not hard to maintain, would you quit changing threat things, forget threat, don't even look at threat again because threat is such a small issue and it really gets under my nerves when I see threat because it's just silly that people still talk about it.
Mark: Now causes you to deal 200% (up from 100%) additional threat on Marked targets and now grants combat advantage to the Guardian Fighter's Allies.
- Ok ignore the threat HAMSTER whatever that means, it is so silly that that is part of the "big update" to GF's, but skip to the good part. COMBAT ADVANTAGE TO ALLIES. - This is a pretty cool freaking idea. If this was Mod 3 - I'd say you guys are idiots, but with all the other "balances" - it actually could be pretty cool. Granted, you mark a GF he will go down like a mod 4 GWF in a heartbeat!, but still this is kinda cool.
Now... these next two kind of caught me off guard, like REALLY caught me off guard, so I'll try and not curse, or risk this getting deleted..
Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
- From a GF standpoint, we have bull charge, frontline, I guess Griffon's even though it has been so neglected when it could be such a cool move, that is about all we got. Sure, Lunging, Anvil, KC, and Knee Breaker I guess. But that is about all we use for offense. Griffon is too slow to chain together so you can unstoppable out of it not that that even matters anymore lol, you can blink or dodge or slide between so the fact that it is a stun, and if feated can gain a bonus damage to it really becomes irrelevant, and even more so now..... The besy way to land that w/out a daily, was frontline, threat rush, bam bam BAM (sometimes 3rd bam)... But now... you can chalk that off of the list even more. (sure some of you still use it, this isn't about the 1 person who does). But frontline has been our baby guys. It is how we stand and jump around at two and knock people off our CW's and DC's. You are literally putting a dagger in the GF's chest, but even more than that, you are significantly weakening a class to nearly beyond use in that of the GWF. I hate GWf's, hell I even made one once GF's got no love and I face mashed the keyboard with the rest of them, but this is one of many daggers to the chest for that class, and a GF. but not so much as the next one...
Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.
- I'm not sure if it was specified if this is all 3 charges come back in 9 seconds, or just 1 charge every 9 seconds, but you do realize, I mean this in a nice way but you do realize that other than lunging strike, and the new bull charge which should really just go back to the old bull charge, are the ONLY way a GF and a GWF (aside from their 1 second of sprint) can close a gap? Play a GF or GWF on Swordmaster and tell me how fun it is. This is an ability that made the most clanky slow class come alive. A GF can bounce back and forth. Hell even take PVE for example, you can literally run over to help other teammates and use lunging and threat rush to get over there, not to mention mark. PVP, it is how we hit people. Take a swordmaster GF, and watch him try and attack someone.... It is silly, they will dodge the bull charge, and after that lunging, it's just off to the races.... And you may say 3 charges that is a lot... 3 charges will be gone in the blink of an eye.. I'm not saying it hurt us as bad as the GWF's becuase it was our move first. Granted I feel bad complaining at all after what you guys did to the CW's and GWF's, but nerfing this for GF, was wrong. Unless there is a 50% speed boost feat somewhere you ninja nerfed in there, this IS our wheels.
I could talk about what you should have done, but all of you people who hate fighting Guardians, look out. Conq just got a HAMSTER load worse without the ability to close gaps. So you are going to have some damage immune reflecting GF's that will drive you f'n crazy and make these matches last hours and hours and hours. Oh, not to mention even better HR's, literally 1/5 as good GWF's and CW's who got worse, somehow which I didn't think was possibel. Oh, and there will also be this perm guy who doesn't hurt anyone that badly and just stands on a node increasing the game THAT much more lol...
Cryptic, this was the first patch it seems like you even remotely listened to a few of the PVP'ers and even did the first "separation of PVP and PVE" - but you fell way short. I hope you take full advantage of this long time to test/fix/rebalance to you full advantage, because I can promise you if you put this in how it is. You would lose the majority of your pvp population over night.
At a glance
CW
As for the CWs damage nerf changes, i welcome them. just using some previously parsed damage results, taking only the shard/steal time reduction it decreases overall dps by around 10%. Ofcourse there are many other changes that will effect dps but for this one class to hoard all the damage was ridiculous, people will just whine because they are no longer kings.
Shard will basically do the same damage as what steal time does now, but steal time will hit a bit harder than sudden storm does.
The singularity nerf gives room for other classes to play rolls (tanks whether gwf or gf because of the mark changes) and HRs with their aoe grasping roots.
More control from oppressor, sudden storm granting a ton of chills, stun after frozen for 5 seconds... seems great, but what is this "chance" of stun.
The new feat changes look really nice, but will have to see what this "chance" means exactly. The new nightmare wizardry will hurt renegades will require testing, but i can see it not being so useful (prefer it had high frequency of proccing rather than it may or may not even go off in a fight.
That eye of the storm change just made that class feature utter garbage. no one likes ICDs, if you think its too strong weaken it, dont add a ICD on it.
For PvP its hard to say, Most likely going to be at the bottom of the pile, because of the new assailing force (could be very awesome for pvp), as well as oppressor. But those longer cast times. And CWs lack defensive spells,
Rework shield and make it a notable defensive spell, e.g. make it knockback/prone (shard style) if someone hits it whilst it is fully charged. Add prone to repel.
GWF
I love the new unstoppable change, it means I wont fall asleep on the keyboard when i pve with him now, you can no longer dps whilst rolling your face on the keyboard. The CW damage nerf could let GWFs do more damage then CWs, but at a cost of their well-being.
PvP will require sentinel spec to compete with, meaning GWFs will be the same as they are now, but even more deflect (from master of arms) but no longer hold the damage they once did.
With the frontline surge changes to a stun however, They will be harder to kill than they are now. Threatening rush changes will let HRs dance around them. Takedown change was not needed.
Taking away all these prones from PvP will make it hard for teams to kill the other GWFs.
GWFs can now tank in pve, the mark = taunt/threat means daring shout will be their softer equivalent to the GF aoe taunt (along with threatening rush. Given sentinels some ability to gain agro.
My biggest issue in PvE, is when a GWF uses IBS and kills/marks as a non-sentinel spec they will get agro from everything and Instantly die.
GF
New mark is great. and alot more hp. Better guard, better taunt. (hope you get combat advantage too would give use some much needed boost in pvp)
The threatening rush and frontline changes are going to hurt especially frontline in pvp. But threatening rush may not seem as bad as it does due to the mark = taunt change PvE wise (I dont use threatening rush every 9 seconds anyway).
In PvP it may be managable because of bulls charge and lunging, the kiting classes may dance around them. This depends on how well the new guard works.
I hope TR changes are coming also!
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
1) Does controlled momentum still affect the control wizard, or does it only affect allies?
2) Does sudden storm become a control power if the chilling control feat is taken (currently it doesn't)? If so, what is the interaction with the high vizier set bonus (e.g. 1/2/etc. stacks applied to target)?
3) Alacrity has been changed to trigger based on damage dealt rather than enemies killed. Currently, you can only have one patch of icy terrain active at a given time (recasting the spell causes the current patch to disappear). Are there any plans to allow multiple patches of icy terrain to be active simultaneously?
Thanks
Agreed. Especially with the GWF changes. Now it will be a choice of more damage or more tanky, not both.
I actually forgot that IBS marks too...that won't be fun
Can you guys just write seperate coding for GWFs and GFs for Frontline/Threatening Rush??
This, can you stop nerfing the IV path because of GWF, we GF don't have any mobility like the GWF - i don't think putting 3 charges on this will help your GF - think about it we don't have any mobility only the lunging strike now your taking away our Threat rush.
Can you apply the changes to GWF instead of the GF path
It took a year to apply something in PVP with NPC's still being hit by it normally when before they basically said that was impossible.... Now we know it has been possible this entire time lol.. Poor TR's. Poor, Poor TR's.
These notes are all subject to change and are just the initial sweep.
Post your feedback! It will be listened to. Rants may make you feel better but do not foster productive changes or discussions.
Guardian Fighter Feedback
Hunter Ranger Feedback
Great Weapon Fighter Feedback
Control Wizard Feedback
Does it mean Determination will be gains slower or faster, or at the same rate as current? (Depending if Destroyer Capstone included of course!)
Cool!
100% Needed, and I'm in full support of this.
I can see where the damage going down wouldn't be a bad thing, 30% is a bit much IMO.
Will need to test in PvP to see how this lines up IBS... But I still feel it should be a Prone Effect just based on name alone.
This? 80% reduction is utility? Seems way way way over the top. I'll test in PvE to see how much this will impact my GWFs abilities to survive against adds, not a fan of this change at all.
So it basically just keeps it where it was, yes? Seems kinda meh since Sentinel's get Unstoppable less then Destroyers/Instigators, but we'll see. I still think the DR cut of 80% was way to much.
Makes sense for PvP.
Once again, I guess I can see it for PvP, but it will be really hard to land IBS w/o a Prone IMO. We'll see...
9 Second recharge, in my opinion, is way too high... Unless that refresh cool down is affected by Recovery... If that's the case and it goes down to 5-7 seconds based on Recovery stat I could see it. Still think it's high and could/should be 6 second cool down before a charge is replenished.
Overall I don't see a major change for PvE outside of the Unstoppable DR change which I think is honestly, terrible.
Unless I'm missing something on how Determination is generated, we'll see I suppose...
Back to the drawing board I go! :rolleyes:
Agreed with everything, specially the last part, prepare to be kitted to death, and unstoppable will be pretty much useless, might aswell remove it altogether .
Unstoppable will do exactly what it does now if you're specced Sent.
- Guardian Fighter
- While it is still in the air. Can you take into consideration changing the ability attributes to be that of the GWF.
- Can you increase the stun duration so Griffon's Wrath can hit in succession.
- Can you remove the prone bonus feat, and add it as a stun feat, and maybe give this GWF's as well since they literally are broken and unplayable if these changes go live.
- Can you please look into the HR and see that it is the most unbalanced class out there right now. Use your heads guys.
- Can you look into the TR and fix their damage, watch the youtube videos, every single TR uses the same moves, same dailies, same everything, it's not because they like to copy each other. It is because that is the ONLY thing that works. All of their other moves have been totally nerfed into oblivion.
- Can you update the Guardian Fighter's feat %'s..
- For instance, the feat that grants 5% less damage taken for a short time after block. Make it 15%.
- Change Guarded Assault to a 7-10% reflect instead of just 3.
- The freaking protector tree has potential, but it's feats are just awful guys, the final feat is SWEET. But maybe make it a 10 ac boost, 10% deflect (GWF's get 10% with a class feature). Use your head and realize that fixing PVE doesn't fix PVP, fiving PVP - fixes PVE.
- Can you please fix CW's - Regardless of if these actually really will be noticed, you know how few GOOD cw's there are out there? Maybe 5 on the entire server as far as pvp goes. That is being generous to the bottom 1-2. Give them some love guys.
- Mentioned HR's need brought down to the same playing field as other classes since other classes are not being brought up to that.
Ok I tried to be constructive.
But if you spec destroyer it is quite literally.
Main reason HR is doing so good right now is because the set bonus is broken. It's getting nerfed into oblvion if you didn't notice.
Arcane Singularity: Activation time increased to 2 seconds (up from 1 second) and can affect up to 8 targets (down from 15). wait what? Do you plan to decrease number of adds in dungeons or is it just in name of nerfs? Why this skill is nerfed? Where is control buff in it? Will it hold mobs for longer? Will it add stun? Best controlling skill is just less controling?
Chill Strike: This power has had its recharge time increased to 15 seconds (up from 13 seconds) and now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second). Why? It had already long cast time for PvP players and for worse its CD is increased if it gets CD and cast nerf where is dmg buff?
Chilling Cloud: The final strike of Chilling Cloud now takes 1 second to fire (down from 1.2). I'm not using it so I have no opinion
Conduit of Ice: This power has had its damage reduced by roughly 33%, recharge time reduced to 13 seconds (down from 18 seconds) and now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .98 seconds). I have no idea why and really don't know what to say. It already had low damage but buffed CD might make it better (that cast time though)also it was pretty useless without Assailing Force and with changes to that feat spellstorms thaums have no use of it
Entangling Force: This power has had its total base damage reduced by about 10% overall, now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second) and the damage over time component now ticks every .5 seconds (down from every .65 seconds). That makes no sense at all, PvP has tenacity and number of targets make it useless in PvE
Ice Knife: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from .93 seconds). PvE=meh, PvP=well CW have to stay behind in PvP so..meh
Icy Terrain: This power now ticks every 1 second (down from every 1.3 seconds). that is good one, but I doubt there'll be much diffrence (testing needed)
Magic Missile: The first two strikes are now chained together about 40% slower. The third strike of Magic Missile now takes 1.4 seconds to fire (up from 1.2).testing needed
Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%. testing needed but I doubt it will make much of a diffrence (with AS people will just use this for better control)
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power has had its recharge time increased to 18 seconds (up from 14), now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .9 seconds) allies no longer benefit from the resistance reduction part of this power. best debuff on bosses... now useless for teamplay
Repel: This power can no longer have it's push effect deflected. Damage can still be deflected normally.
Repel: The spell mastery version of this power will ignore control immune targets for the purposes of target selection. good one one repel
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33% and its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%.Ok this power needed damage nerf but where is more control in the place of that damage, or less CD?
Steal Time: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 65% and its recharge time reduced to 18 seconds (down from 22 seconds).well, skill was very good before but I ask you this: with all damage nerfs why do you buff this skill damage instead of buffing its control ability?
Thaumaturge Feats:
Assailing Force: This feat has been reworked i now has the following effect: Dealing damage to foes has a chance to grant you Assailant. When you have Assailant your next encounter power deals 10% of the target's max HP as unresistable damage (max 500% weapon damage). This will only affect one target when used in an AoE.nerfing overall damage on CW and changing this one for pure dps? And only one target? Why change one of party most benefiting feat to "this"
Destructive Wizardry (Paragon: Storm): This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (down from 2/4/5/8/10%) bonus damage. This feat no longer requires you strike at least 2 targets, but now requires you charge Storm Pillar fully. This feat now lasts 20 seconds (up from 6).good change
Drifting Embers (Paragon: Master of Flame): This feat now has a 8/16/24/32/40% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) chance to spread Smoulder to targets. Spellstorm here so no opinion
Elemental Empowerment: This feat has been reworked i now has the following effect: Dealing Cold damage has a 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Creeping Frost. Creeping Frost deals 85% of your weapon damage as cold damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Dealing Arcane damage has a 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Warped Magics. Warped Magics deals 50% of your weapon damage as Arcane damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Warped Magics ignores half of a target's resistance. These effects do not stack. testing needed
Far Spell: Now affects all Single Target powers rather than just Magic Missile and Chill Strike. didn't use it but changes sound good
Frozen Power Transfer: This bonus now stacks up to a maximum of 3 stacks and is refreshed when you gain a new stack. Players will gain one stack for each target hit with the final strike of Chilling Cloud. This bonus now lasts 20 seconds (up from 8).didn't use it, no opinion
Malevolent Surge: This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (down from 2/4/6/8/10%) and no longer stacks. This feat now lasts 15 seconds (up from 4).testing needed but with all damage nerfs and no control buffs (actually with CC nerfs)
Snap Freeze: This feat now grants 2/4/6/8/10% (down from 3/6/9/12/15) bonus damage to your Cold At Wills and Encounters against foes who are not Chilled. didn't use it no opinion
Tempest Magic: This feat now grants 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% (down from 2/4/6/8/10%) bonus damage while targets are below 30% HP.again, damage nerf no control buff
Transcended Master: Shard of Endless Avalanche now gains 2/4/6/8/10% (down from 3/6/9/12/15%) bonus damage. Icy Rays now gains 2/4/5/8/10% bonus damage when cast on the same target twice and a .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 second(s) shorter cooldown when used on two different targets.nerfed SoEA and its feat? MOAR CONTROL
Stormspell Mage
Eye of the Storm: This power now has an ICD of 90 seconds. Base Duration increased to 4 seconds (up from 2). Duration increase per rank increased to 1 (up from .5).so main reason for SS paragon has vanished... why just not change it to something else instead of making it useless; like having 2% (per rank) to add effect that will stun enemies when reaching x stack?
Sudden Storm: This power has had its base damage reduced by roughly 33% and its recharge time increased to 14 seconds (up from 10 seconds). change this power to "Storm Cage" (You trap your enemies in a cage made of lightning and filled with roaring thunder.) and lets leave this "less damage, no CC" nerf shall we?
Heroic Feats
Arcane Enhancement: This feat now grants 1/2/3% (Down from 2/4/6%) ok less damage, where is my CC?
Blighting Power: This feat now grants 2/4/6% (Down from 3/6/9%)see above
Focused Wizardry: This feat has been reworked it now has the following effect: Single target Powers deal 2/4/6% more damage.well, at least I'll have to put my feat points somwhere else but... see above
Wizard's Wrath: This feat now grants 1/2/3% (down from 2/4/6%) CC?
SO.... Thaumaturge Spellstorm is becoming pretty useless, everything on CW gets damage and CD nerfs (with few/one exception/s) and no CC buffs....
Come clean here: is it to make people create Warlocks when they'll be released because I'm pretty sure people will create new characters when new magic class will be released no matter what but... well I just hope warlock won't be "new" CW
I wish they put 10 sec CD on HR stance switching as well as adding 10 sec CD stance switching decrease on the Ranged or whatever else capstone. "Stance Switching will do exactly what it does now if you're specced Ranged."
They can also now do an additional +15% damage that cannot be deflected and ignores DR for all melee attacks.
Duh really??? play with a sentinel GWF right now, and try facing other good players from the other classes good luck, now imagine your take down doing 30% less damage, no more prones, IBS will most likely become impossible to land, a 9 sec cool down on Threatening rush...
It's still going to give CC-immunity and 10% isn't nothing.
As for Destroyers falling down dead in PVE, I don't think they will any more than CWs do. Maybe it won't be quite as "I can stand in anything no problem", but lifesteal is still going to give big heals.
destroyer ill probly die in around 10 sec in pve
I get that, but Unstoppable still provides CC-immunity.
And I have a GWF, I know you can sprint out of red areas. It's just that right now there's no reason to- in fact it's beneficial to stand in red because it gives you unstoppable/Godmode that much faster.
Unstoppable has no immunity frames and sprint will rubberband you back into red routinely. That added to the fact there are dungeons where all the ground in melee range is just red AOE...GG destroyer spec.