In conclusion any of those changes will kill the Infiltrator path and will deplete the WK build completely . Learn tr mechanics and make those posts after that .
Incorrect. Point 4, which you didn't comment on, actually is a huge boon for Combat TRs as it would allow them to easily go back in to stealth (and thus take advantage of the class feats and powers). They would go in and out of stealth all the time. The first three are only a slight variation on the current TR system that prevent perma stealth. Learn TR mechanics yourself for a change and avoid protecting broken game mechanics.
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2014
Moderation Notice:
You guys may notice there are four pages of...they don't even deserve to be called posts...suddenly missing from this thread...
In the future please report that type of behavior using the ( ) so I don't have to sift through six pages of posts in order to weed out that...stuff.
Incorrect. Point 4, which you didn't comment on, actually is a huge boon for Combat TRs as it would allow them to easily go back in to stealth (and thus take advantage of the class feats and powers). They would go in and out of stealth all the time. The first three are only a slight variation on the current TR system that prevent perma stealth. Learn TR mechanics yourself for a change and avoid protecting broken game mechanics.
Oh forgive my impudence . This will destroy completely TC and not just destroy our active skills along with the changes mentioned before but it will even make useless some of our feats - passives ...I don't consider something that has 10-15 ways to be countered by any class a broken mechanics . Seriously .Plus there are mmos more high esteemed and older than the PWE ones with the same mechanics on Rogue classes .And guess what. Their community doesn't even bother with Rogues since every other class has been adjusted in same terms . Everything can kill everything .I am speaking for L series which have been created 18 years ago and were considered the Father of all Combat MMos since it still remains the only PVP - PK based mmo .
all people just ignore the obvious does not need to change the description nor the ITC the solution is simple.
The majority here apparently never was the real problem of pvp tr the only form to detect it in stealth is a distance of only 5 meters increase this distance to 15 feet so you will only need to rotate the mouse to detect the tr, that in the game only happens when he's on your side or in front of "5 meters ".
in icewind you can see the ioun of tr, and follow him more is than 5 feet is still impossible to click on it.
all people just ignore the obvious does not need to change the description nor the ITC the solution is simple.
The majority here apparently never was the real problem of pvp tr the only form to detect it in stealth is a distance of only 5 meters increase this distance to 15 feet so you will only need to rotate the mouse to detect the tr, that in the game only happens when he's on your side or in front of "5 meters ".
in icewind you can see the ioun of tr, and follow him more is than 5 feet is still impossible to click on it.
all people just ignore the obvious does not need to change the description nor the ITC the solution is simple.
The majority here apparently never was the real problem of pvp tr the only form to detect it in stealth is a distance of only 5 meters increase this distance to 15 feet so you will only need to rotate the mouse to detect the tr, that in the game only happens when he's on your side or in front of "5 meters ".
in icewind you can see the ioun of tr, and follow him more is than 5 feet is still impossible to click on it.
As a WK i agree to this change ( i even added it on TC'S nerf ) ...That would solve the problem w/o nerfing the Trs ..
who has already been 1 x 1 against a tr that uses ioun might notice that you can see the ioun even passing the mouse over is impossible to click on tr, this is caused because the feet is only 5 meters to detect the target, increasing range to detect the tr in stealth you could rotate the mouse and detect him a wider bandwidth and can for example EF for cw
all people just ignore the obvious does not need to change the description nor the ITC the solution is simple.
The majority here apparently never was the real problem of pvp tr the only form to detect it in stealth is a distance of only 5 meters increase this distance to 15 feet so you will only need to rotate the mouse to detect the tr, that in the game only happens when he's on your side or in front of "5 meters ".
in icewind you can see the ioun of tr, and follow him more is than 5 feet is still impossible to click on it.
Nop . It's one of the finest posts in this thread .I am a WK . That means if I with a toon that has no ITC got no prob ,You as an MI path tr shouldn't have a reason to criticize his post .
Oh forgive my impudence . This will destroy completely TC and not just destroy our active skills along with the changes mentioned before but it will even make useless some of our feats - passives ...
TC would still apply. As stated in #4 a TR can still lose stealth meter if they take damage in stealth. TC would reduce the amount of that stealth meter loss as it does now. The only feats that need modified, from what I remember, are Twilight Adept and Sneaky Stabber. Twilight Adept could reduce Stamina loss from dodges and Gloaming Cut would need modified to do something else anyways as it is a refill stealth ability (#1 in my original post).
I don't consider something that has 10-15 ways to be countered by any class a broken mechanics .
Believe it or not the devs do read these forum posts, but they have little time to play the game themselves. They have already stated they will be doing something about perma stealth. But instead of vehemently defending it, which will fail, I decided to advocate an improvement to the class as a solution. Look at #4 I posted and think about it. With that a TR would have stealth every 8 seconds regardless of taking a beating. #3 means that out of those 8 seconds 5 of them they could be CC immune and have increased deflect thanks to ITC. It would turn the TR in to a hit-n-run class it was always suppose to be.
TC would still apply. As stated in #4 a TR can still lose stealth meter if they take damage in stealth. TC would reduce the amount of that stealth meter loss as it does now. The only feats that need modified, from what I remember, are Twilight Adept and Sneaky Stabber. Twilight Adept could reduce Stamina loss from dodges and Gloaming Cut would need modified to do something else anyways as it is a refill stealth ability (#1 in my original post).
Believe it or not the devs do read these forum posts, but they have little time to play the game themselves. They have already stated they will be doing something about perma stealth. But instead of vehemently defending it, which will fail, I decided to advocate an improvement to the class as a solution. Look at #4 I posted and think about it. With that a TR would have stealth every 8 seconds regardless of taking a beating. #3 means that out of those 8 seconds 5 of them they could be CC immune and have increased deflect thanks to ITC. It would turn the TR in to a hit-n-run class it was always suppose to be.
TC prevents loss of stealth with an OP percent of 90 % .If this gets nerfed on 60 -65 % and the distance in which a tr can be spotted to 10-12 feet the Perma stealth will still exist but countering it will be easy even for players with 0 experience .
devs mentioned stealth nerf few months ago.
cant belive trs didnt get a stealth nerf yet.
If you had even 1 clue about how TR class works or even the basic feats of both Paths you would understand the reason . But no since you ain't spending even 1 min to do so...
Nop . It's one of the finest posts in this thread .I am a WK . That means if I with a toon that has no ITC got no prob ,You as an MI path tr shouldn't have a reason to criticize his post .
have you ever used duellist flurry.
its the only way perma mi can kill someone.
and to use df u need to get close,same time its realy slow
so how you imagine to use it if everyone can see u.
as a wk u only stay ranged so no nerf for u.
If you had even 1 clue about how TR class works or even the basic feats of both Paths you would understand the reason . But no since you ain't spending even 1 min to do so...
lol u know how the class works hehehe.
u spec the kweassa bladeslinger range build hehehehehehe and now you a pro
have you ever used duellist flurry.
its the only way perma mi can kill someone.
and to use df u need to get close,same time its realy slow
so how you imagine to use it if everyone can see u.
as a wk u only stay ranged so no nerf for u.
12 -15 feet cover the whole node . i will be in range too mate ... But if duration or Encounters that refill stealth get a nerf i will be UTTERLY useless .
12 -15 feet cover the whole node . i will be in range too mate ... But if duration or Encounters that refill stealth get a nerf i will be UTTERLY useless .
the stone was an example that even if you knowing the location the tr doesn't become a target thanks to the limit of detection in stealth and most trs are running in the circle, increasing the range, would help a lot in domination.
in duelist i agree more you can only detectalo when he is already in 3 hit duelist upon you it's useless to try to control it.
increasing the range of detection can prevent the tr before him skip giving the 2 hits DF and simply go up in 3° hit DF,because with the current range you only detects it in 3° hit DF when it's too late
the stone was an example that even if you knowing the location the tr doesn't become a target thanks to the limit of detection in stealth and most trs are running in the circle, increasing the range, would help a lot in domination.
in duelist i agree more you can only detectalo when he is already in 3 hit duelist upon you it's useless to try to control it.
increasing the range of detection can prevent the tr before him skip giving the 2 hits DF and simply go up in 3° hit DF,because with the current range you only detects it in 3° hit DF when it's too late
if stoned tr used only df for dmg as most permas do he would never kill a single player.
If you had even 1 clue about how TR class works or even the basic feats of both Paths you would understand the reason . But no since you ain't spending even 1 min to do so...
i dont care how trs work i just copy best build from the forum and beat you very easy.
i just want to see stealth nerfed coz its boring to play perma
thats why i dont play anymore
have you ever used duellist flurry.
its the only way perma mi can kill someone.
and to use df u need to get close,same time its realy slow
so how you imagine to use it if everyone can see u.
as a wk u only stay ranged so no nerf for u.
just make the game more fair. Besides tr invisible he gets 95% of the field of vision undetectable unless you pass beside.
that wouldn't be totally visible since even detecting the tr needs at least 1s with the mouse over to use a encounter in a tr with Stealth, duelist can be used stopping and jumping to compençar could increase a little the speed of the second hit of the DF.
i dont care how trs work i just copy best build from the forum and beat you very easy.
i just want to see stealth nerfed coz its boring to play perma
thats why i dont play anymore
Well if you say so you must be stronk playa.Now back to your Gfw - Cw caves .Pugs like you ruin our gameplay with their emoqq on forums .Since you don't even know how tr mechs work you have no right to post here . Only experienced players pls that actually spend some mins to read guides of other classes.
TC prevents loss of stealth with an OP percent of 90 % .If this gets nerfed on 60 -65 % and the distance in which a tr can be spotted to 10-12 feet the Perma stealth will still exist but countering it will be easy even for players with 0 experience .
You are advocating just more nerfs that would effect all TR's, not just permas. I was giving a solution that improves TRs while at the same time removing permas completely.
i dont care how trs work i just copy best build from the forum and beat you very easy.
i just want to see stealth nerfed coz its boring to play perma
thats why i dont play anymore
I think you're confusing TR with GWF.
Tr needs control in duelist or you will be jumping and hitting in nothing, because nobody gets stopped against the tr, and unlike gwf TR without stealth and ITC is paper.
Well if you say so you must be stronk playa.Now back to your Gfw - Cw caves .Pugs like you ruin our gameplay with their emoqq on forums .Since you don't even know how tr mechs work you have no right to post here . Only experienced players pls that actually spend some mins to read guides of other classes.
there is only one guide -snow one
and yeah i was prety strong as combat tr and as perma in synergy but to boring to play that pob <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
there is only one guide -snow one
and yeah i was prety strong as combat tr and as perma in synergy but to boring to play that pob <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
Οn this my friend we agree . POB is the most useless / unskilled skill ever made .
Tr needs control in duelist or you will be jumping and hitting in nothing.
can you make up your mind what you want.
how can tr have control in df when everyone would see him coming even from the first hit
what you are suggestion is compleate stealth nerf.15 feet visible tr-
how can i land df
how can i land lb
how can i land pob
how can i land dazing
lolololol
and then you come to troll me and you want even more nerf then me
0
maroucatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
Tenacious Concealment and ITC are the source of the perma-rogue angst.
ITC is Unstoppable on an encounter, and Tenacious Concealment removes the only way to pop someone from stealth. From a design standpoint rogues should be very nimble glass cannons. If those things are nerfed they will need more dodge (like HR), and some of their encounters will need damage boosted to again be viable (looking at you Impact shot).
I'd love to play a high damage, but fragile class with a ton of dodges. Perma builds are boring, but people feel compelled to play them because a rotation from a geared out CW or GWF will end them. You get 2 whole dodges (even less than CW), so the only defense becomes stealth. Not everyone wants to play a perma-stealth rogue, but they don't want to be ground into the floor constantly either.
Nerfed encounter damage + lack of dodges makes perma the most viable build right now. It sucks, but until considerable adjustments are made to the class, it is what it is.
Tenacious Concealment and ITC are the source of the perma-rogue angst.
ITC is Unstoppable on an encounter, and Tenacious Concealment removes the only way to pop someone from stealth. From a design standpoint rogues should be very nimble glass cannons. If those things are nerfed they will need more dodge (like HR), and some of their encounters will need damage boosted to again be viable (looking at you Impact shot).
I'd love to play a high damage, but fragile class with a ton of dodges. Perma builds are boring, but people feel compelled to play them because a rotation from a geared out CW or GWF will end them. You get 2 whole dodges (even less than CW), so the only defense becomes stealth. Not everyone wants to play a perma-stealth rogue, but they don't want to be ground into the floor constantly either.
Nerfed encounter damage + lack of dodges makes perma the most viable build right now. It sucks, but until considerable adjustments are made to the class, it is what it is.
The problem is that if they nerf the duration or the encounters that refill stealth they will completely ruin the class. Not even 1 feat from the Sab Path will have a meaning and the WK Path will be destroyed .I Prefer being seen from a longer distance rather than this crime against our class.Our class is already crippled if you think that we got only 2 dodges and Itc (which is a power of only one of the 2 paths and which power depletes completely stealth to offer us this immunity)
Comments
Incorrect. Point 4, which you didn't comment on, actually is a huge boon for Combat TRs as it would allow them to easily go back in to stealth (and thus take advantage of the class feats and powers). They would go in and out of stealth all the time. The first three are only a slight variation on the current TR system that prevent perma stealth. Learn TR mechanics yourself for a change and avoid protecting broken game mechanics.
You guys may notice there are four pages of...they don't even deserve to be called posts...suddenly missing from this thread...
In the future please report that type of behavior using the (
Oh forgive my impudence . This will destroy completely TC and not just destroy our active skills along with the changes mentioned before but it will even make useless some of our feats - passives ...I don't consider something that has 10-15 ways to be countered by any class a broken mechanics . Seriously .Plus there are mmos more high esteemed and older than the PWE ones with the same mechanics on Rogue classes .And guess what. Their community doesn't even bother with Rogues since every other class has been adjusted in same terms . Everything can kill everything .I am speaking for L series which have been created 18 years ago and were considered the Father of all Combat MMos since it still remains the only PVP - PK based mmo .
The majority here apparently never was the real problem of pvp tr the only form to detect it in stealth is a distance of only 5 meters increase this distance to 15 feet so you will only need to rotate the mouse to detect the tr, that in the game only happens when he's on your side or in front of "5 meters
in icewind you can see the ioun of tr, and follow him more is than 5 feet is still impossible to click on it.
Problem solved
As a WK i agree to this change ( i even added it on TC'S nerf ) ...That would solve the problem w/o nerfing the Trs ..
.....................................delete
Nop . It's one of the finest posts in this thread .I am a WK . That means if I with a toon that has no ITC got no prob ,You as an MI path tr shouldn't have a reason to criticize his post .
TC would still apply. As stated in #4 a TR can still lose stealth meter if they take damage in stealth. TC would reduce the amount of that stealth meter loss as it does now. The only feats that need modified, from what I remember, are Twilight Adept and Sneaky Stabber. Twilight Adept could reduce Stamina loss from dodges and Gloaming Cut would need modified to do something else anyways as it is a refill stealth ability (#1 in my original post).
Believe it or not the devs do read these forum posts, but they have little time to play the game themselves. They have already stated they will be doing something about perma stealth. But instead of vehemently defending it, which will fail, I decided to advocate an improvement to the class as a solution. Look at #4 I posted and think about it. With that a TR would have stealth every 8 seconds regardless of taking a beating. #3 means that out of those 8 seconds 5 of them they could be CC immune and have increased deflect thanks to ITC. It would turn the TR in to a hit-n-run class it was always suppose to be.
cant belive trs didnt get a stealth nerf yet.
TC prevents loss of stealth with an OP percent of 90 % .If this gets nerfed on 60 -65 % and the distance in which a tr can be spotted to 10-12 feet the Perma stealth will still exist but countering it will be easy even for players with 0 experience .
If you had even 1 clue about how TR class works or even the basic feats of both Paths you would understand the reason . But no since you ain't spending even 1 min to do so...
have you ever used duellist flurry.
its the only way perma mi can kill someone.
and to use df u need to get close,same time its realy slow
so how you imagine to use it if everyone can see u.
as a wk u only stay ranged so no nerf for u.
lol u know how the class works hehehe.
u spec the kweassa bladeslinger range build hehehehehehe and now you a pro
12 -15 feet cover the whole node . i will be in range too mate ... But if duration or Encounters that refill stealth get a nerf i will be UTTERLY useless .
the stone was an example that even if you knowing the location the tr doesn't become a target thanks to the limit of detection in stealth and most trs are running in the circle, increasing the range, would help a lot in domination.
in duelist i agree more you can only detectalo when he is already in 3 hit duelist upon you it's useless to try to control it.
increasing the range of detection can prevent the tr before him skip giving the 2 hits DF and simply go up in 3° hit DF,because with the current range you only detects it in 3° hit DF when it's too late
ehmm . WK class is considered far harder ...
if stoned tr used only df for dmg as most permas do he would never kill a single player.
i dont care how trs work i just copy best build from the forum and beat you very easy.
i just want to see stealth nerfed coz its boring to play perma
thats why i dont play anymore
just make the game more fair. Besides tr invisible he gets 95% of the field of vision undetectable unless you pass beside.
that wouldn't be totally visible since even detecting the tr needs at least 1s with the mouse over to use a encounter in a tr with Stealth, duelist can be used stopping and jumping to compençar could increase a little the speed of the second hit of the DF.
Well if you say so you must be stronk playa.Now back to your Gfw - Cw caves .Pugs like you ruin our gameplay with their emoqq on forums .Since you don't even know how tr mechs work you have no right to post here . Only experienced players pls that actually spend some mins to read guides of other classes.
You are advocating just more nerfs that would effect all TR's, not just permas. I was giving a solution that improves TRs while at the same time removing permas completely.
I think you're confusing TR with GWF.
Tr needs control in duelist or you will be jumping and hitting in nothing, because nobody gets stopped against the tr, and unlike gwf TR without stealth and ITC is paper.
there is only one guide -snow one
and yeah i was prety strong as combat tr and as perma in synergy but to boring to play that pob <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
Οn this my friend we agree . POB is the most useless / unskilled skill ever made .
can you make up your mind what you want.
how can tr have control in df when everyone would see him coming even from the first hit
what you are suggestion is compleate stealth nerf.15 feet visible tr-
how can i land df
how can i land lb
how can i land pob
how can i land dazing
lolololol
and then you come to troll me and you want even more nerf then me
ITC is Unstoppable on an encounter, and Tenacious Concealment removes the only way to pop someone from stealth. From a design standpoint rogues should be very nimble glass cannons. If those things are nerfed they will need more dodge (like HR), and some of their encounters will need damage boosted to again be viable (looking at you Impact shot).
I'd love to play a high damage, but fragile class with a ton of dodges. Perma builds are boring, but people feel compelled to play them because a rotation from a geared out CW or GWF will end them. You get 2 whole dodges (even less than CW), so the only defense becomes stealth. Not everyone wants to play a perma-stealth rogue, but they don't want to be ground into the floor constantly either.
Nerfed encounter damage + lack of dodges makes perma the most viable build right now. It sucks, but until considerable adjustments are made to the class, it is what it is.
The problem is that if they nerf the duration or the encounters that refill stealth they will completely ruin the class. Not even 1 feat from the Sab Path will have a meaning and the WK Path will be destroyed .I Prefer being seen from a longer distance rather than this crime against our class.Our class is already crippled if you think that we got only 2 dodges and Itc (which is a power of only one of the 2 paths and which power depletes completely stealth to offer us this immunity)