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Will Frontline Surge's long range be looked into?
ianthewizard2012
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
As being feedbacked by players, Frontline Surge is currently too long-range to be a melee attack. 30 feet is as long as CW's Sudden Storm, and is longer than CW's teleport (25 feet). After I teleport away, they can still hit me remotely with this power. Isn't that a bit too much?
I noticed its original version in pnp is for pushing back one target who is adjacent to the fighter. I understand that there is a reason to raise its target limit to 3 and change its effect to prone, but giving it such a long range really is beyond my understanding.
Please look into it. Let melee attack be like melee attack.
I noticed its original version in pnp is for pushing back one target who is adjacent to the fighter. I understand that there is a reason to raise its target limit to 3 and change its effect to prone, but giving it such a long range really is beyond my understanding.
Please look into it. Let melee attack be like melee attack.
Post edited by ianthewizard2012 on
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Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
There is no melee, ranged, magic, etc distinction in this game. Classes are designed to be unique, sure, but there is a general distance at which any and every class is and should be capable of striking.
If you're asking for Fighters to have their maximum attack range reduced, then I want ranged class to have their minimum range increased. Yep, no more CW casting when hes right next to me or HR shooting his bow from 2 feet. Ultimately, this only hinders the combat system.
If you are within a radius about the size of a Domination cap, you should expect that any class is capable of hitting you.
Get over it already.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
30 feet is too long for a melee attack. I would rather see its damage be restored and its range be shortened to what a melee attack should have.
For every 1 GWF who takes for granted his OPness there are 10 other classes who spitefully wish them to be nerfed to the grave. Please don't confuse the "l2p" GWFs with the "please understand you are mistaken" GWFs.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
It would appear my previous notice was not enough. Please do review section I of Rules of Conduct.
This will be my last warning.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
GWFs ARE op. There is nothing to add to this. But nobody want to see them nerfed to the grave. There aren't just black and white. But as is now it is NOT right. And stop acting like GWF are hated for no reason. I personally don't hate the class. I hate the players of that class who think that everything is balanced now. That think they are more skilled than everybody else and that is the reason they dominate the fights.
I have one of each class all geared for L60 Domination (greater than 15k gear score).
GF are simple prone machines with block. They can do fine if used properly. Not sure why ppl complain they are so weak in pvp. In Pve sure? Sure they dont add much.
DC can contest points and heal. They are not going to top kills unless they vastly outgear the enemy but I would never have expected them too.
Geared CWs have no control but can do ok if they get protection. If the other team is smart, though, the CW spends all his time constricted and dead or proned and dead.
I think the order right now is
HR > TR > GWF > gap > GF|CW
I see DCs as an assist class. They will make any competent party of four much stronger than simply adding another dps except for possilby a super geared HR OR TR.
So DC should play only in premade? Is it right they don't stand a chance against every other class if there isn't a party to protect them?
And again, nothing beats a well geared gwfs. With a tr or an hr I will die as a dc, but I can fight. A gwf just shut me down and in a rotation I'm gone.
I play my DC in PUGs all the time. In the top 100 pages most players play well enough to support her. We don't win every time but the matches are good.
A DC may do better against a TR then they do against a GWF. I can agree with that. The order was overall against all classes. Clearing a perma 1v1 is basically only possible for an HR and a good HR can hold a point against anyone right now. A good gwf versus a good TR is a stalemate while the gwf is whittled down and eventually SE or whirlwinded to death unless he gets a lucky prone in between the TRs cooldowns.
I'm in the first 100 pages too (in and out, I dont play too much since mod3). I play only in pug. And I know for sure we are the weakest link. Just look at DCs in the leaderboard. And look at their deaths/match played ratio. Leaderboard could mean nothing, but the data shown are real.
Except for the fact that Threatening rush requires a certain distance to use, and NO it cannot be spammed, that was fixed last few patches. Ive seen numeroud CW's beat GWF's.
But ya, Frontline surge is just fine, NO need to touch anything with it.
And this is not a problem, since GF's in particular need gap closers and some limited ranged capability if you want to even pretend there is something approaching balance in PvP. Since you are posting about PvP, let's at least pretend that you do. So I'll suggest a solution that I know you will appreciate...ROLEPLAYING!
I roleplay my GF as a Paladin, and Frontline Surge isn't a melee attack. It is him channeling the wrath of Torm via his sacred shield in defense of the weak. Torm's fury manifests as a blast of holy power that happens to go about 30 feet and knock up to five enemies off their feet.
I don't think GWF are hated for no reason, I think they are hated for the wrong reasons. Because of this, people throw out wild suggestions in which they can envision themselves trampling a GWF that ultimately do nothing for balance other than tip the scales in another direction.
You say GWF are OP. Do you not think that TR or HR are not equally OP?
I play a wizard in PvP quite a bit, there is no question in my mind that I would rather deal with a GWF on my home-cap than a HR or TR any day of the week. It's unlikely that I will kill any of them, but I know at least with the GWF I have a good chance of hassling him enough to force him off my cap. If he won't get off my cap then I can usually kill him for his stubbornness. In the case of HR or TR I can't even bother fighting them because not only do I stand no chance of killing them, its also very unlikely that I can effectively outplay him for the cap. Again, I'm by no means saying that GWF is less OP than HR/TR, but to me, these three classes are equally powerful in Domination. Therefore, nerfing the GWF does nothing for balance other than establish the HR/TR as frontrunners. The struggling classes ultimately still lag behind. Buff the GF for sure, CW could use a bit of love too, DC should have some offensive options if he should choose to sacrifice healing. Nerf nothing about anyone except what is already coming(Roar/HR Healing). Balance is closer than most people think.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
Short answer no, Long answer in some cases.
Hr have the ability to survive alot and escape to come back better then a gwf but just look at pvp right now.
2 gwf in every single team is more a rule then exeption even 3 gwfs are pretty common and that is in pugs.
2 gwf together have better synergy than 2 hr or any 2 of same class for that matter.
Now look at kills/death in matches and you see why gwfs are #1.
If you dont know that gwfs rule in pvp more then any other class atm you are not playing pugs and just doing premade and who cares about about premades they can live in their own little world.
A few good bis geared hrs that are out there makes a good job of being next to immortal and at the same time being able to actually kill some also but the absolute majority is either glass canon or cant kill a crippled afk cw due to lack of dps.
It is tiresome to see all that play gwf defend them in absurdom when all that actually play pugs alot know for a fact that they are dominating the overall pvp in a way no other class is even near to.
Frontline has an extream long range and with TR as gap closer there is no need for it and tbh i dont think it would matter a bit of they nerfed it or not as gwfs will be glued to you if they want.
I am not a fan of nerfing gwfs and would like to see some chage of mechanics in pvp and/or buffs to other classes instead but for the love of g--- stop pretending that they are just another class that runs around and that all other just dont understand how to handle them ................
For me coming back after a hiatus, pvp is just not fun with the state HRs are in (but thats being changed at some point), GWFs aren't as terrible as before though their damage combos are devastating because of their destroyer featline. TRs permastealth is something i've hated from the beginning, its absurd how they can just stay in stealth when they get CCed, i remember they were supposed to rework TR mechanics but that was 3 months ago.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Never a dull IantheWizard thread.
However, seriously...I know you're partial to wizards but you need to start playing other classes before putting out these ideas.
Kolevra actually hit the nail on the head...if you want to keep requesting ideas that make melee fighters 100% inferior to ranged then it's nigh time you get a taste of your own medicine and we ask for your spells to be interupted when taking damage and being told you are too close to fire spells and arrows.
Because if my TRs should have to miss their Lashing Blade hitting because of other players using knockback powers, everyone should suffer along with me.
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Right. If you have sprint and unstoppable and the highest base weapon damage in the game FLS can become a problem. The problem being that they were designed for a class that has neither. So if you want to make a positive suggestion it is not to break FLS but to give GFs and GWFs different paragon paths.
Deit: My bad. I should add Ferocious reaction and threatening rush as well....
I hear you guys on this... i play EVERY class in pve and pvp. My main back in beta was a Swordmaster GWF, and he got trashed by CWs ALL the time. I know im not a master pvp'er, yet i still got back up, hacked away, and learned to play better everytime.
Im not saying the game's balanced now, but i rolled a CW, and as long as my team actually had teamwork, i just did not have the same problems all these other CWs had... Sure, getting ganged up on sucked, but i was playing a cloth wearing crowd controller. I never expected to facetank the GFs and GWFs... but i did sometimes. Especially with tenacity. Pre-tenacity, the matches were pretty much Lashing Blade and Ice Knife contests, all about 1 shotting the enemy team to respawn.
All that being said, i do believe the GFs did get the short end of the stick in the paragon path exchange... But it wasnt just that that made GWFs tougher. Unstoppable has changed since beta. GWFs used to be a joke to take in dungeons and pvp matches, but now...
Every mmo ive played had the melee classes gain some sort of range attack, and/or a way to reach the mage. In this venue, Neverwinter should be no different.