Once again I am wasting my time in this game as TR, just wasted 2H!!!!! looking for a group and noone wanted TR's! I even got an answer like this:
Him: Need 1DPS PM
Me: Inv me, TR
Him: Sorry, I prefer HR or GWF
Me: Why?!? You said DPS!
Him: Yeah... TR's don't have any DPS.
I mean... WOW... I am about to quit this game! How am I supposed to improve gear if this **** keeps happening? Its like TR's are useless and here in this thread everyone is like "They are actually too strong" while i'm like "Can't Q for dungeon cuz they don't like TR"
Now seriously! If you don't fix this in the next MOD 4 or earlyer, I swear I'm quitting this game! Its not even funny how I waste my time in here trying to play "Dungeons & Dragons".
Devs! Where are you? Why you only appear to delete comments off this thread? Why? Show youselves and give your word!
This is funny as I did Cloak Tower with 4 Tricksters and a Wizard, so we were all around level 18 or so. Someone said we need a tank and I said TRs ARE tanks!
This is funny as I did Cloak Tower with 4 Tricksters and a Wizard, so we were all around level 18 or so. Someone said we need a tank and I said TRs ARE tanks!
At least, they were at the time.
Say that when you get to level 60 on Epic Dungeons! I bet you can't do the same so well.
I also did Pirate King Epic with 5 TR's but I wasted about 20 Health Potions to make it work.
PvP should have nothing to do with invulnerability powers - it should be down to skill alone - and with the gear scores and rubbish match making, that is impossible.
~
Say that when you get to level 60 on Epic Dungeons! I bet you can't do the same so well.
I also did Pirate King Epic with 5 TR's but I wasted about 20 Health Potions to make it work.
Crikey, my level 60 DCs with Epic Tier 2 Grim Faithful gear and level 7 enchants have trouble in Epic dungeons. All the buffs, all the healing powers and Feats AND Major Potions of Healing and I could not drink enough potions to stay alive long enough to run away when the Illithid in Dread Vault all decide to swamp me. And that was WAY before the final boss. Final boss is quite easy if you have the strategy.
At least if I was permanently invisible, I'd have a chance. In fact, we all died except the TR, who killed the mid-Boss single-handedly. Yep. She was a Perma Stealth build. By the time we caught up, she'd killed all the Illithid and was sitting on a rock waiting for us.
Crikey, my level 60 DCs with Epic Tier 2 Grim Faithful gear and level 7 enchants have trouble in Epic dungeons. All the buffs, all the healing powers and Feats AND Major Potions of Healing and I could not drink enough potions to stay alive long enough to run away when the Illithid in Dread Vault all decide to swamp me. And that was WAY before the final boss. Final boss is quite easy if you have the strategy.
At least if I was permanently invisible, I'd have a chance. In fact, we all died except the TR, who killed the mid-Boss single-handedly. Yep. She was a Perma Stealth build. By the time we caught up, she'd killed all the Illithid and was sitting on a rock waiting for us.
TRs are nerfed?
Cry me a River!
~
That is very unlikely to happen unless the boss is already with less than 25% of its HP. Now: are all TR's perma builds? Totally not! Is it an interesting build? Totally not! Is it efficient? Yes, too efficient!
The problem is that most people don't like the perma stealth build because in one hand they feel like cowards and on the other hand they take too much time to kill anyone and if a CW or a GWF comes close its GG for the TR!
That you said is totally possible! BUT how we succeeded on 5 TR's was not with perma builds, but with Smoke Bombs! It has a 15 second CD, if we all use it coordinated we can: do 3+3+3+3+3 Seconds on dazes wich = 15 Seconds, so we can repeat the process!
Seems simple right? Its not! You need to be always moving with this build and the mobs get out of daze too quickly but still enough to make us have time to use ITC or Dodges and heal back.
This thread is not about the nerfs they made to TR in general, but the nerfs they made to TR because of the perma builds! They were sooo many! And the question here is "How do we fix it?".
I would like you to take some more time to read this thread before posting such thing that everyone knows its possible but you're counting what we want fixed.
As i said: why not just give Lantern of Revelation more range to detect hidden TRs/HRs? Increased to 30 feets instead of the 10 which actually has or a 3 secs CD if the lantern did not detect a single hidden unit.
Your (all you) main problem is that you are just seeying a scale from the balance but not the other side: (IMO) the solution do not pass through nerf the Perma TR's tools, but buff the tools you have right now (lantern, I.E., giving it more range to detect hidden units) to counter this tool.
As a tr i don't mind boosting both the time and radius of the lantern . But no more nerfs for god's sake
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
As a tr i don't mind boosting both the time and radius of the lantern . But no more nerfs for god's sake
Not only that.. but I would like to see that damage that was lost.... RESTORED.
No frigging wonder Rogues have troubles getting groups in dungeons... they nerfed the crp out of their damage.
Did people suddenly and mysteriously think this WASNT going to cause major problems and be a complete disaster?
No.... for the record I don't like Perma Stealth, that's WRONG for a rogue, you should be revealed when you attack... BUT.... they nerfed the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of your damage...... so of COURSE you're doing to see silly things like that by people to try to make it work ANYWAY.
Talk about Shooting yourself in the foot with Nerfs....
.....WAY overdone and this class needs to be restored.
Not only that.. but I would like to see that damage that was lost.... RESTORED.
No frigging wonder Rogues have troubles getting groups in dungeons... they nerfed the crp out of their damage.
Did people suddenly and mysteriously think this WASNT going to cause major problems and be a complete disaster?
No.... for the record I don't like Perma Stealth, that's WRONG for a rogue, you should be revealed when you attack... BUT.... they nerfed the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of your damage...... so of COURSE you're doing to see silly things like that by people to try to make it work ANYWAY.
Talk about Shooting yourself in the foot with Nerfs....
.....WAY overdone and this class needs to be restored.
FINALLY!!!!! Thats all we want too...... When a Rogue attacks he should lose stealth PERIOD!
EDIT: TR's can mitigate more damage then a GF.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
FINALLY!!!!! Thats all we want too...... When a Rogue attacks he should lose stealth PERIOD!
EDIT: TR's can mitigate more damage then a GF.
you have no clue about how ITC works . In order to mitigate the incoming dmg we need to use ITC in stealth which it makes our stealth meter go empty and this buff lasts for like few sec .If we appear while we dps we won't be able to use our stealth special skills effects .Doing that won't just nerf us . It will destroy every single encounter - Paragon path options.Now if you should be able to notice our position by a cange on the animations of stealth while we attack is another option . But the best one should be for you to able to detect us while we pass a certain line of distance from your own position . Like that idiot pugs trs will get stomped and only the skillful ones will manage to maintain stealth on a perma level
you have no clue about how ITC works . In order to mitigate the incoming dmg we need to use ITC in stealth which it makes our stealth meter go empty and this buff lasts for like few sec .If we appear while we dps we won't be able to use our stealth special skills effects .Doing that won't just nerf us . It will destroy every single encounter - Paragon path options.Now if you should be able to notice our position by a cange on the animations of stealth while we attack is another option . But the best one should be for you to able to detect us while we pass a certain line of distance from your own position . Like that idiot pugs trs will get stomped and only the skillful ones will manage to maintain stealth on a perma level
Err... Duelist's Flurry (hit 1), followed by its second hit, which can be accompanied by ITC, THEN activate stealth. 3rd part of DF gets in while in stealth, with the PvP gear on you have time for another full DF and a LB, in that 1 stealth instance. You can obviously realize I'm not talking about a perma build, since you have ITC and LB in there.
Anyway, my point was that you can be in stealth and ITC, and do quite a bit of damage before you have to dodge out of trouble.
EDIT: If you want to turn that into a rotation, as a 3rd encounter use BaS (for a defensive approach) or WS (for an offensive one), after which just run around until ITC is back up and start over.
Pre mod3 I apparently took less damage while in ITC (not in stealth) than I do now. It's either ITC was changed, or the extra damage I get comes from the changes in how Power works. Last one is more likely, but we are, without a doubt, even squishier then we were before.
Not to mention a TRs amazing Deflection mitigation. I take far more damage then a TR as a GF with 4500 defense!
i have mentioned that as well in terms of boss tanking, but......at least guardians can kite i guess. but deflection is pure luck without ITC, 2 good hits and we are dead anyways. it's not like we are boasting a deflection chance above 50%
although just because we can do that does not mean we are without problems, but it does mean that guardians need a complete overhaul.
FINALLY!!!!! Thats all we want too...... When a Rogue attacks he should lose stealth PERIOD!
No. That is not a viable option without a complete rework of the entire class. A few months back I thought that was a viable option but then I made a TR and learned better. Go make one right now and you will quickly learn why that is fail.
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
No. That is not a viable option without a complete rework of the entire class. A few months back I thought that was a viable option but then I made a TR and learned better. Go make one right now and you will quickly learn why that is fail.
Nope... actually... you guys USED to have that kind of damage potential...
....until it was nerfed into the ground...
Obvious solution... time to un-nerf that damage potential... and remove those previous nerfs that caused this entire problem in the first place...
It was obviously a big mistake at this point...
0
jeffro9000Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 121Bounty Hunter
edited May 2014
To begin with, I have a 60 of every class 12k+ including 2 gwf's and 2 dc's
The gwf is the most overpowered class hands down. It requires enough skill to hold down a mouse button and mash on tab. If you can do these 2 things, you are a top tier gwf.
The rogue is strong, I agree, in pvp at least. However, landing duelists on moving targets takes skill and practice. There is simply no such thing as a one rotation kill for a tr. Not on somebody of equal gear score at least.
The hate for tr's is strange. When I play my cw people never pm me, on the tr, I have to put several people on ignore after a few matches because of the hate that I am getting. People don't seem to mind getting mauled by an invincible gwf simply because they can see it, but a tr lands a flurry in stealth? Time to break out the hateraide!
Tr's feel real squishy after the recent changes, fyi. I have 30k+ hp on my tr, and he can die to takedown, indomitable. 2 encounters, 30k+ damage. Let's not even talk about the cw...
Let's be honest. I would much rather contest a point with a tr on it than one being held by a gwf or hr, no matter what class I am playing.
Long story short, the rogue is fine the way it is. Shocking was nerfed with the change to power, and that was a good change. Permas are annoying, but they are not god mode as many seem to believe.
Play the other classes, learn their encounters/cooldowns/builds/etc. and learn to recognize and play against them. Knowing a few simple things about the rogue's stealth mechanic and what to expect will do wonders for you in pvp vs any rogue, perma or not.
To begin with, I have a 60 of every class 12k+ including 2 gwf's and 2 dc's
The gwf is the most overpowered class hands down. It requires enough skill to hold down a mouse button and mash on tab. If you can do these 2 things, you are a top tier gwf.
The rogue is strong, I agree, in pvp at least. However, landing duelists on moving targets takes skill and practice. There is simply no such thing as a one rotation kill for a tr. Not on somebody of equal gear score at least.
The hate for tr's is strange. When I play my cw people never pm me, on the tr, I have to put several people on ignore after a few matches because of the hate that I am getting. People don't seem to mind getting mauled by an invincible gwf simply because they can see it, but a tr lands a flurry in stealth? Time to break out the hateraide!
Tr's feel real squishy after the recent changes, fyi. I have 30k+ hp on my tr, and he can die to takedown, indomitable. 2 encounters, 30k+ damage. Let's not even talk about the cw...
Let's be honest. I would much rather contest a point with a tr on it than one being held by a gwf or hr, no matter what class I am playing.
Long story short, the rogue is fine the way it is. Shocking was nerfed with the change to power, and that was a good change. Permas are annoying, but they are not god mode as many seem to believe.
Play the other classes, learn their encounters/cooldowns/builds/etc. and learn to recognize and play against them. Knowing a few simple things about the rogue's stealth mechanic and what to expect will do wonders for you in pvp vs any rogue, perma or not.
I don't know why you get that hate. Are you a perma stealth? If so, that's normal, but an ITC builder does not get any hate even if he gets on top of the score board. GWF are indeed way too strong. Now, what I don't agree with you is "Shocking was nerfed with the change to power, and that was a good change" I play this game since release and let me tell you, you could deal half a person's HP if you crit with SE BUT they nerfed it to the ground! Its not even worth the use ATM because WOB as an AOE daily can do WAY more dmg than SE right now, so... That SE was hurting alot indeed but you have to look at it like this: Do you prefer us using WOB taking 10k on 5 people of do you prefer us taking 20k on a single person? What is more game changing? Also, TR is the slowest building AP class in the game so it has a real long CD before you can use it again!
Now: If TR is so "Long story short, the rogue is fine the way it is" why do people not like them in dungeons? Hun? How about facing the things the way they are? You guys only look at the current game prespective the way you want! Its always like this! Everyone agrees with the changes and they refuse any others but if Cryptic decides to change anything they will turn back and say "it was needed"! Its always like this! The people suffering are the ones having their mains as TR's but the other ones because they have other classes dont give a cent to the topic!
TR's are fine for PVP without the perma stealth if they buff SE again, at least give it the prone CC back the way it had and 20% more raw damage! CW's can have it, why can't TR's? Make the change I mentioned before to smoke bomb and their DPS will increase like nothing and get this class back to action in dungeons like in the old days.
To begin with, I have a 60 of every class 12k+ including 2 gwf's and 2 dc's
The gwf is the most overpowered class hands down. It requires enough skill to hold down a mouse button and mash on tab. If you can do these 2 things, you are a top tier gwf.
Finally someone admits it!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
To begin with, I have a 60 of every class 12k+ including 2 gwf's and 2 dc's
The gwf is the most overpowered class hands down. It requires enough skill to hold down a mouse button and mash on tab. If you can do these 2 things, you are a top tier gwf.
The rogue is strong, I agree, in pvp at least. However, landing duelists on moving targets takes skill and practice. There is simply no such thing as a one rotation kill for a tr. Not on somebody of equal gear score at least.
The hate for tr's is strange. When I play my cw people never pm me, on the tr, I have to put several people on ignore after a few matches because of the hate that I am getting. People don't seem to mind getting mauled by an invincible gwf simply because they can see it, but a tr lands a flurry in stealth? Time to break out the hateraide!
Tr's feel real squishy after the recent changes, fyi. I have 30k+ hp on my tr, and he can die to takedown, indomitable. 2 encounters, 30k+ damage. Let's not even talk about the cw...
Let's be honest. I would much rather contest a point with a tr on it than one being held by a gwf or hr, no matter what class I am playing.
Long story short, the rogue is fine the way it is. Shocking was nerfed with the change to power, and that was a good change. Permas are annoying, but they are not god mode as many seem to believe.
Play the other classes, learn their encounters/cooldowns/builds/etc. and learn to recognize and play against them. Knowing a few simple things about the rogue's stealth mechanic and what to expect will do wonders for you in pvp vs any rogue, perma or not.
People don't mind ( as much ) dying to a GWF storms trooping them because they had a chance a very small margin of a chance at getting lucky, using better tactics, tricking the GWF, or at least damaging him enough that your team mates can grab him after you die.
TR kill people while in stealth and then lololololol tell you, " You Suck" troll you how bad you are then stealth away. Cannot build any tactics on an invisible target!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
The hate for tr's is strange. When I play my cw people never pm me, on the tr, I have to put several people on ignore after a few matches because of the hate that I am getting. People don't seem to mind getting mauled by an invincible gwf simply because they can see it, but a tr lands a flurry in stealth? Time to break out the hateraide!
I find the hate strange too. My ignore list is 100% from PvP. I am not even that good and get hate /tells. Oh and the amount I am called "perma" when I am far from one is laughable So much ignorance and hate in the world.
I don't get too caught up in by button pressing skills to hate anyone, It is after all just pressing buttons.
I find the hate strange too. My ignore list is 100% from PvP. I am not even that good and get hate /tells. Oh and the amount I am called "perma" when I am far from one is laughable So much ignorance and hate in the world.
I don't get too caught up in by button pressing skills to hate anyone, It is after all just pressing buttons.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... It was probably a duck!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
That is very unlikely to happen unless the boss is already with less than 25% of its HP.
This thread is not about the nerfs they made to TR in general, but the nerfs they made to TR because of the perma builds! They were sooo many! And the question here is "How do we fix it?".
Well, it happened, and she was no slouch in the damage department, either. Our GWF had to leave and the new character to join was a TR. She was awesome.
But I already posted how to fix the balance in this game - the devs should learn to play AD&D and read the 4E SRD and redesign everything from the ground up.
Regardless of INT and other stats that reduce Recharge and Cool Down time, regardless of Feats, Uber-Gear and Enchants, NO Power should EVER have a Cool Down that is less than the Duration of the effect.
Simple as that.
Just like they fixed the Perma-Astral shield for Clerics, no Thief should ever be permanently Invisible:
1. There should always be a small window of Visibility (say, 5 sec with Max Buffs) even with the most Uber-BiS gear, Enchants and Powers in the game.
2. Using a damage Power in Stealth Mode should turn off the stealth. In all other games I have played in the last 35 years or more, even opening a chest dispels Invisibility, and certainly attacking dispels it.
It is ridiculous that I can be Stunned, then hit with a Guaranteed Critical, then whacked again and again and again while I am completely stunned and the attacker is STILL "Hiding in Shadows"
Even an idiot would have some idea where they are.
Buff their other powers as well, that's fine. But get rid of Perma-Stealth. It isn't right, it isn't fair, it isn't good design and it isn't AD&D.
There probably won't be any "official" word unless a community mod closes the thread with a comment.
These nerfs to TR (and pretty much every other class (except GWF?)) won't be reverted. Like, why would they if they already did that for a reason ((((((((cry, cry, so much cry you can't even hear anything but cry))))).
Which is just sad. I mean, TR is pretty much destroyed in PvE, and PvP too. Like the only real competitor PvPer is the perma stealth one. Hands down, no matter how you're good with non-perma TR, against a "real good PvPer group" (why am I putting these words together) it doesn't really stand a chance.
To the guy who said
Cannot build any tactics on an invisible target!
Of course, not that almost all GWF skills can be used without a target, and a lot classes have them too. You just have to recognize where he's at (it can be easily be done after realizing how the stealth works) and with some prediction, you can deal INSANE ammount of damage on a stealthed perma (exp'd (I'm a non perma TR) I was in stealth and a GWF just were, meh, 20k too easy.)
You just HAVE to learn to play against. And if you really want to, you'll find the way to. You know, creativity is the humanity's one best friend.
Comments
Him: Need 1DPS PM
Me: Inv me, TR
Him: Sorry, I prefer HR or GWF
Me: Why?!? You said DPS!
Him: Yeah... TR's don't have any DPS.
I mean... WOW... I am about to quit this game! How am I supposed to improve gear if this **** keeps happening? Its like TR's are useless and here in this thread everyone is like "They are actually too strong" while i'm like "Can't Q for dungeon cuz they don't like TR"
Now seriously! If you don't fix this in the next MOD 4 or earlyer, I swear I'm quitting this game! Its not even funny how I waste my time in here trying to play "Dungeons & Dragons".
Devs! Where are you? Why you only appear to delete comments off this thread? Why? Show youselves and give your word!
Yes I have, but I am out of luck apparently.
At least, they were at the time.
Say that when you get to level 60 on Epic Dungeons! I bet you can't do the same so well.
I also did Pirate King Epic with 5 TR's but I wasted about 20 Health Potions to make it work.
~
Crikey, my level 60 DCs with Epic Tier 2 Grim Faithful gear and level 7 enchants have trouble in Epic dungeons. All the buffs, all the healing powers and Feats AND Major Potions of Healing and I could not drink enough potions to stay alive long enough to run away when the Illithid in Dread Vault all decide to swamp me. And that was WAY before the final boss. Final boss is quite easy if you have the strategy.
At least if I was permanently invisible, I'd have a chance. In fact, we all died except the TR, who killed the mid-Boss single-handedly. Yep. She was a Perma Stealth build. By the time we caught up, she'd killed all the Illithid and was sitting on a rock waiting for us.
TRs are nerfed?
Cry me a River!
~
That is very unlikely to happen unless the boss is already with less than 25% of its HP. Now: are all TR's perma builds? Totally not! Is it an interesting build? Totally not! Is it efficient? Yes, too efficient!
The problem is that most people don't like the perma stealth build because in one hand they feel like cowards and on the other hand they take too much time to kill anyone and if a CW or a GWF comes close its GG for the TR!
That you said is totally possible! BUT how we succeeded on 5 TR's was not with perma builds, but with Smoke Bombs! It has a 15 second CD, if we all use it coordinated we can: do 3+3+3+3+3 Seconds on dazes wich = 15 Seconds, so we can repeat the process!
Seems simple right? Its not! You need to be always moving with this build and the mobs get out of daze too quickly but still enough to make us have time to use ITC or Dodges and heal back.
This thread is not about the nerfs they made to TR in general, but the nerfs they made to TR because of the perma builds! They were sooo many! And the question here is "How do we fix it?".
I would like you to take some more time to read this thread before posting such thing that everyone knows its possible but you're counting what we want fixed.
As a tr i don't mind boosting both the time and radius of the lantern . But no more nerfs for god's sake
Not only that.. but I would like to see that damage that was lost.... RESTORED.
No frigging wonder Rogues have troubles getting groups in dungeons... they nerfed the crp out of their damage.
Did people suddenly and mysteriously think this WASNT going to cause major problems and be a complete disaster?
No.... for the record I don't like Perma Stealth, that's WRONG for a rogue, you should be revealed when you attack... BUT.... they nerfed the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of your damage...... so of COURSE you're doing to see silly things like that by people to try to make it work ANYWAY.
Talk about Shooting yourself in the foot with Nerfs....
.....WAY overdone and this class needs to be restored.
FINALLY!!!!! Thats all we want too...... When a Rogue attacks he should lose stealth PERIOD!
EDIT: TR's can mitigate more damage then a GF.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
you have no clue about how ITC works . In order to mitigate the incoming dmg we need to use ITC in stealth which it makes our stealth meter go empty and this buff lasts for like few sec .If we appear while we dps we won't be able to use our stealth special skills effects .Doing that won't just nerf us . It will destroy every single encounter - Paragon path options.Now if you should be able to notice our position by a cange on the animations of stealth while we attack is another option . But the best one should be for you to able to detect us while we pass a certain line of distance from your own position . Like that idiot pugs trs will get stomped and only the skillful ones will manage to maintain stealth on a perma level
Err... Duelist's Flurry (hit 1), followed by its second hit, which can be accompanied by ITC, THEN activate stealth. 3rd part of DF gets in while in stealth, with the PvP gear on you have time for another full DF and a LB, in that 1 stealth instance. You can obviously realize I'm not talking about a perma build, since you have ITC and LB in there.
Anyway, my point was that you can be in stealth and ITC, and do quite a bit of damage before you have to dodge out of trouble.
EDIT: If you want to turn that into a rotation, as a 3rd encounter use BaS (for a defensive approach) or WS (for an offensive one), after which just run around until ITC is back up and start over.
Pre mod3 I apparently took less damage while in ITC (not in stealth) than I do now. It's either ITC was changed, or the extra damage I get comes from the changes in how Power works. Last one is more likely, but we are, without a doubt, even squishier then we were before.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
i have mentioned that as well in terms of boss tanking, but......at least guardians can kite i guess. but deflection is pure luck without ITC, 2 good hits and we are dead anyways. it's not like we are boasting a deflection chance above 50%
although just because we can do that does not mean we are without problems, but it does mean that guardians need a complete overhaul.
No. That is not a viable option without a complete rework of the entire class. A few months back I thought that was a viable option but then I made a TR and learned better. Go make one right now and you will quickly learn why that is fail.
Nope... actually... you guys USED to have that kind of damage potential...
....until it was nerfed into the ground...
Obvious solution... time to un-nerf that damage potential... and remove those previous nerfs that caused this entire problem in the first place...
It was obviously a big mistake at this point...
The gwf is the most overpowered class hands down. It requires enough skill to hold down a mouse button and mash on tab. If you can do these 2 things, you are a top tier gwf.
The rogue is strong, I agree, in pvp at least. However, landing duelists on moving targets takes skill and practice. There is simply no such thing as a one rotation kill for a tr. Not on somebody of equal gear score at least.
The hate for tr's is strange. When I play my cw people never pm me, on the tr, I have to put several people on ignore after a few matches because of the hate that I am getting. People don't seem to mind getting mauled by an invincible gwf simply because they can see it, but a tr lands a flurry in stealth? Time to break out the hateraide!
Tr's feel real squishy after the recent changes, fyi. I have 30k+ hp on my tr, and he can die to takedown, indomitable. 2 encounters, 30k+ damage. Let's not even talk about the cw...
Let's be honest. I would much rather contest a point with a tr on it than one being held by a gwf or hr, no matter what class I am playing.
Long story short, the rogue is fine the way it is. Shocking was nerfed with the change to power, and that was a good change. Permas are annoying, but they are not god mode as many seem to believe.
Play the other classes, learn their encounters/cooldowns/builds/etc. and learn to recognize and play against them. Knowing a few simple things about the rogue's stealth mechanic and what to expect will do wonders for you in pvp vs any rogue, perma or not.
Jeffrina Jones, GWF
Jeffrodo, CW
Jeffrogue, Rog
Jelfro, GF
Jeffrogolas Do'Urden, HR
Jeffrodo Jaggins, SW
I don't know why you get that hate. Are you a perma stealth? If so, that's normal, but an ITC builder does not get any hate even if he gets on top of the score board. GWF are indeed way too strong. Now, what I don't agree with you is "Shocking was nerfed with the change to power, and that was a good change" I play this game since release and let me tell you, you could deal half a person's HP if you crit with SE BUT they nerfed it to the ground! Its not even worth the use ATM because WOB as an AOE daily can do WAY more dmg than SE right now, so... That SE was hurting alot indeed but you have to look at it like this: Do you prefer us using WOB taking 10k on 5 people of do you prefer us taking 20k on a single person? What is more game changing? Also, TR is the slowest building AP class in the game so it has a real long CD before you can use it again!
Now: If TR is so "Long story short, the rogue is fine the way it is" why do people not like them in dungeons? Hun? How about facing the things the way they are? You guys only look at the current game prespective the way you want! Its always like this! Everyone agrees with the changes and they refuse any others but if Cryptic decides to change anything they will turn back and say "it was needed"! Its always like this! The people suffering are the ones having their mains as TR's but the other ones because they have other classes dont give a cent to the topic!
TR's are fine for PVP without the perma stealth if they buff SE again, at least give it the prone CC back the way it had and 20% more raw damage! CW's can have it, why can't TR's? Make the change I mentioned before to smoke bomb and their DPS will increase like nothing and get this class back to action in dungeons like in the old days.
Finally someone admits it!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
People don't mind ( as much ) dying to a GWF storms trooping them because they had a chance a very small margin of a chance at getting lucky, using better tactics, tricking the GWF, or at least damaging him enough that your team mates can grab him after you die.
TR kill people while in stealth and then lololololol tell you, " You Suck" troll you how bad you are then stealth away. Cannot build any tactics on an invisible target!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I find the hate strange too. My ignore list is 100% from PvP. I am not even that good and get hate /tells. Oh and the amount I am called "perma" when I am far from one is laughable
I don't get too caught up in by button pressing skills to hate anyone, It is after all just pressing buttons.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... It was probably a duck!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Or an actor
Many poeople here can't seem to tell the difference between a duck and a goose
I USE stealth a lot, and can do a decent stretch of stealth (stars aligned), but I am not perma
Well, it happened, and she was no slouch in the damage department, either. Our GWF had to leave and the new character to join was a TR. She was awesome.
But I already posted how to fix the balance in this game - the devs should learn to play AD&D and read the 4E SRD and redesign everything from the ground up.
Regardless of INT and other stats that reduce Recharge and Cool Down time, regardless of Feats, Uber-Gear and Enchants, NO Power should EVER have a Cool Down that is less than the Duration of the effect.
Simple as that.
Just like they fixed the Perma-Astral shield for Clerics, no Thief should ever be permanently Invisible:
1. There should always be a small window of Visibility (say, 5 sec with Max Buffs) even with the most Uber-BiS gear, Enchants and Powers in the game.
2. Using a damage Power in Stealth Mode should turn off the stealth. In all other games I have played in the last 35 years or more, even opening a chest dispels Invisibility, and certainly attacking dispels it.
It is ridiculous that I can be Stunned, then hit with a Guaranteed Critical, then whacked again and again and again while I am completely stunned and the attacker is STILL "Hiding in Shadows"
Even an idiot would have some idea where they are.
Buff their other powers as well, that's fine. But get rid of Perma-Stealth. It isn't right, it isn't fair, it isn't good design and it isn't AD&D.
~
These nerfs to TR (and pretty much every other class (except GWF?)) won't be reverted. Like, why would they if they already did that for a reason ((((((((cry, cry, so much cry you can't even hear anything but cry))))).
Which is just sad. I mean, TR is pretty much destroyed in PvE, and PvP too. Like the only real competitor PvPer is the perma stealth one. Hands down, no matter how you're good with non-perma TR, against a "real good PvPer group" (why am I putting these words together) it doesn't really stand a chance.
To the guy who said Of course, not that almost all GWF skills can be used without a target, and a lot classes have them too. You just have to recognize where he's at (it can be easily be done after realizing how the stealth works) and with some prediction, you can deal INSANE ammount of damage on a stealthed perma (exp'd (I'm a non perma TR) I was in stealth and a GWF just were, meh, 20k too easy.)
You just HAVE to learn to play against. And if you really want to, you'll find the way to. You know, creativity is the humanity's one best friend.