This will never work. why?
1. Tr's without stealth are dead, simple as that. Atleast against smart ppl. Without stealth and itc, trs are by far the squishiest class.
If those stealth changes will happen, they have to give trs a class feature that is similar to lone wolf on hr's.
That's the way it should be, rly. A TR has more than enough time and dmg to kill a target in one rotation. There is no need for the added godmode ontop if it. I could go deeper into details on why so many TR rely on broken game features but my post would just get deleted or edited anyway.
--
I mean most TR are half asleep by nature and when they manage to pull of "the oh wowwwwzor1111!!" perma show they think they really did accomplish something.. "special" and feel pro about it. It's a heavy form of delusion, tbh.
There surely are exceptions, but these are very rare.
That's the way it should be, rly. A TR has more than enough time and dmg to kill a target in one rotation. There is no need for the added godmode ontop if it. I could go deeper into details on why so many TR rely on broken game features but my post would just get deleted or edited anyway.
--
I mean most TR are half asleep by nature and when they manage to pull of "the oh wowwwwzor1111!!" perma show they think they really did accomplish something.. "special" and feel pro about it. It's a heavy form of delusion, tbh.
And let me remind you something . If you kill trs by removing both stealth & dps a huge part of the community will surely quit . It's one or another . PICK .
There surely are exceptions, but these are very rare.
If cryptic undo all the nerfs on our dps skills i will <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on perma stealth builds ..I will even accept removal of stealth.Don't come to cry here again if this happens because you will seriously miss our lack of dps on perma stealth.
That's the way it should be, rly. A TR has more than enough time and dmg to kill a target in one rotation. There is no need for the added godmode ontop if it. I could go deeper into details on why so many TR rely on broken game features but my post would just get deleted or edited anyway.
--
I mean most TR are half asleep by nature and when they manage to pull of "the oh wowwwwzor1111!!" perma show they think they really did accomplish something.. "special" and feel pro about it. It's a heavy form of delusion, tbh.
There surely are exceptions, but these are very rare.
TRs only encounter what is not easy to dodge is IS and its nerfed to hell. Can you tell me more about that glorious rotation?
The Rogue is the most absurdly stupid class design in all of Neverworking and has absolutely zero relationship with D&D. And I have two Rogue characters.
In the last 35 years I have played all versions since the original D&D, also AD&D First Edition, 2nd edit, 3rd edition and 3.5E and I can assure you that Cryptic designers and developers have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
All they need to do is read the 4E SRD and design the game according to that.
NO Powers should EVER have a Cool Down time lower than the duration of that power - I don't care how high your INT is, I don't care how high your Recovery is or how many +300 Silvery Enchants you have - it's as simple as that.
Permanent Stealth is absurdly stupid, unbalanced and incredibly poor design. Massive Backstab damage? Fine. Massive Critical Strikes? Fine. Permanently invisible? Don't talk such bloody tosh! How can you be Stealthed and Hidden in Shadows in broad daylight and in full view of your enemies? Especially when they are all looking for you as you just criticalled and stunned one of them.
And how can a Thief in leather armour stand toe-to-toe with a Cleric or a Warrior and have them completely disabled with Permanent STUN on top of Permanent Invisibility? How could that EVER happen, even in a fantasy game like AD&D?
It COULDN'T.
Not until this abortion was released.
And, of course, the GWF is also over-powered. A Cleric has to spend 5 Feat slots on a high level Feat to get a STUN effect with Flame Strike for 0.5 seconds! 0.5 seconds! And it is not even an AoE effect, it has to be precisely aimed and can be stepped out of without even having to Dodge, Sprint or Tumble.
And yet when I get gang-banged by a GWF, CW and a Rogue, all my keys are permanently greyed out as I hammer them, I am stunned, dazed, knocked prone and cannot move and in the microseconds when the key functions come back while I am hammering the keys, the effect does not fire and I am stunned again, powers are greyed out again, and I am dead within seconds.
But that is as much to do with the stupid queue system for PvP as the unbalanced class powers. I have been in almost as many teams where it was a walk over for us as I have been on the receiving end of being overwhelmed. A pair of balanced teams with a closely run match, when it happens, is a thing of beauty.
Since the latest patch my DC has been teamed with two CWs and 2 HRs against two GWFs, a GF and 2 Perma-Stealthed TRs twice, and with one CW, 2 HR's and another DC against the same sort of team three times.
What the bloody hell is THAT all about? It's like they took two reasonably balanced teams, then put all the Warriors and Rogues in one Team and all the DCs, CWs and TRs in the other.
The Rogue is the most absurdly stupid class design in all of Neverworking and has absolutely zero relationship with D&D. And I have two Rogue characters.
In the last 35 years I have played all versions since the original D&D, also AD&D First Edition, 2nd edit, 3rd edition and 3.5E and I can assure you that Cryptic designers and developers have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
All they need to do is read the 4E SRD and design the game according to that.
NO Powers should EVER have a Cool Down time lower than the duration of that power - I don't care how high your INT is, I don't care how high your Recovery is or how many +300 Silvery Enchants you have - it's as simple as that.
Permanent Stealth is absurdly stupid, unbalanced and incredibly poor design. Massive Backstab damage? Fine. Massive Critical Strikes? Fine. Permanently invisible? Don't talk such bloody tosh! How can you be Stealthed and Hidden in Shadows in broad daylight and in full view of your enemies? Especially when they are all looking for you as you just criticalled and stunned one of them.
And how can a Thief in leather armour stand toe-to-toe with a Cleric or a Warrior and have them completely disabled with Permanent STUN on top of Permanent Invisibility? How could that EVER happen, even in a fantasy game like AD&D?
It COULDN'T.
Not until this abortion was released.
And, of course, the GWF is also over-powered. A Cleric has to spend 5 Feat slots on a high level Feat to get a STUN effect with Flame Strike for 0.5 seconds! 0.5 seconds! And it is not even an AoE effect, it has to be precisely aimed and can be stepped out of without even having to Dodge, Sprint or Tumble.
And yet when I get gang-banged by a GWF, CW and a Rogue, all my keys are permanently greyed out as I hammer them, I am stunned, dazed, knocked prone and cannot move and in the microseconds when the key functions come back while I am hammering the keys, the effect does not fire and I am stunned again, powers are greyed out again, and I am dead within seconds.
But that is as much to do with the stupid queue system for PvP as the unbalanced class powers. I have been in almost as many teams where it was a walk over for us as I have been on the receiving end of being overwhelmed. A pair of balanced teams with a closely run match, when it happens, is a thing of beauty.
Since the latest patch my DC has been teamed with two CWs and 2 HRs against two GWFs, a GF and 2 Perma-Stealthed TRs twice, and with one CW, 2 HR's and another DC against the same sort of team three times.
What the bloody hell is THAT all about? It's like they took two reasonably balanced teams, then put all the Warriors and Rogues in one Team and all the DCs, CWs and TRs in the other.
Yeah, great patch, Cryptic.
~
Let me make it clear to you mate . EVERY FREAKING CLASS ON THIS GAME HAS MORE THAN 6-7 SKILLS ( NOT CONSIDERING ARTIFACT EFFECTS ) TO MAKE A FREAKING TR APPEAR AND OWN HIM. Stop crying and read a guide on how to use those skills . if you want i can make a guide with everything about how to kill a perma stealth tr .
They have consistently nerfed TR since release. So much that they are starting to nerf skills they have already nerfed (Shocking Execution).
TR adapt to each change. Finding creative ways to use powers that weren't used often before. Also all TRs are stealth based. It is build into our feats as well as our powers. Our damage is landing duelist flurry, which most TR have learned how to do. I would say it takes some time to learn the timing and against good pvp players you better be on your A game. If a TR is killing you quickly with dueliest, trust me the TR isn't the one with no skill build.
Of course people want to nerf our stealth. We are squishy and stealth makes it hard for them to target us. Catch a TR with no stealth and they are easy prey. CW really hate us (not so much after Impact nerf) because we are the one class they can't sit back and kill from 40 ft away. However, stealth is our class mechanic, it is built into all our powers/builds. If they change it to deplete on attacks or whatever then something will have to replace it. More damage or utility. And then TR will learn how to be successful with the new builds and people will ask for nerfs again.
It's time, to implement the stealth patch which the TR community already prevented from getting released, once.
Attacks have to deplete stealth in order to balance it, it's as simple as that. Adjust the stealth meter - refilling skills to +75% meter not 100% and everything is cool but crispy.
Go, go Cryptic, you guys can do this.
It's time you stop trolling and stop talking about things you don't know about, ie. PvP.
People should play a TR first, and then comment. You will understand that the players that you think are "OP" are having maxed out toons that they play for months, they have BiS gear, BiS spec. But more importantly...
Something you don't have:
SKILLS.
Some things were broken about TRs. As in Shocking Execution getting a bit dumb. Yet good HRs still were able to kill me. A few times even good CWs managed it, and my toon is maxed and even I might not be the best in class, I still am somewhere in the top 5%.
At the same time, I trolled masses of unexperienced pugs and killed sometimes even 3-4 while remaining alive, on point.
You know why?
Cause they didn't have the gear, the spec and the skills and knowledge to take on me. Not their fault, but rather the matchmaking fault that put them together with me.
So ease down on the rivers of QQ about nerfing TRs yet again.
Seriously complaining about TRs? Rangers got ****ted on period. we didn't even need a nerf we are already **** in pvp, soon as we get caught it's over... specially when you have no team to protect you. TRs can just cloak and gtfo we have to work are *** off out of cc... and soon as we get caught by a Guardian omg... it's over. specially now, fox cunning which was are bread and butter... now that's nerfed to **** we have no way of getting out of up close and personal battles or at least trade really well. at least your class does high damage with out being interrupted by auto attacks... GWF, CW, TRs and Guardians own pvp... period.
All the classes have been nerfed.. a lot and every time they have people do their whole this makes the game unplayable thing
but even though TR have been nerfed more than anyone they are probably still one of the most played classes and the most feared in PVP.
Even at their most powerful people often kicked TR out of groups because why fill a slot with DPS when you can have dps and heal or dps and crowd control. and in most teams the TR is just that guy to kick you out of the most damage slot at the end. since there is no most cc or most buffs/debuffs category in that. and the benefit the TR does do by taking out trash or flanking the boss
is often unseen or ignored because hunter rangers do it way better and can kinda heal ALSO.
SO I don't mind that TRs get stripped a bit though it actually never in the way people want. as people are more hating on perma-stealthers than crit monkeys so this nerf is probably not going to satisfy them. but please give TR enthusiasts something that will make us useful to the party, more flanking benefits, pve mob debuffs, maybe some poison related stackable that pvpers are resistant to, healing is of course just crazy talk on a rogue. "hey party member let me stab you with healing" yeah probably not.
also the most recent nerfs prove they do NOT nerf to improve PVP. I they did it would not be crit they nerf it would be stealth as stealth is what people complain about in pvp. PWE nerfs to make it harder for people to solo content and rip through bosses. this is a company that adds mobs to dragons. so instead of making harder more challenging bosses that rely on use of terrain and carful cooperation all they have to do is nerf the classes that do the most damage.
Let me make it clear to you mate . EVERY FREAKING CLASS ON THIS GAME HAS MORE THAN 6-7 SKILLS ( NOT CONSIDERING ARTIFACT EFFECTS ) TO MAKE A FREAKING TR APPEAR AND OWN HIM.
if you want i can make a guide with everything about how to kill a perma stealth tr .
OK, go on then - do one for a Cleric and post it here, because apart from the Lantern, which very rarely works, I have yet to see it happen.
I can hit them with At Wills as they bounce aroond like bufoons (why do they do that? Don't they know they can be targeted anyway?), but I have never been able to make a Rogue appear when he is perma-stealthed.
This will never work. why?
1. Tr's without stealth are dead, simple as that. Atleast against smart ppl. Without stealth and itc, trs are by far the squishiest class.
If those stealth changes will happen, they have to give trs a class feature that is similar to lone wolf on hr's.
Actually, no, I am a TR that does not use anything close to Perma Stealth and I can do nice scores on PVP and have not many problems in PVE other than DPS. BUT I agree that if they make this big change to perma stealth, they will have to give a free respec token because else its going to hurt alot of players!
BTW: The point of this thread is Buff normal TR playstyle but FIX the Permastealth problem, this way it wont make them useless.
OK, go on then - do one for a Cleric and post it here, because apart from the Lantern, which very rarely works, I have yet to see it happen.
I can hit them with At Wills as they bounce aroond like bufoons (why do they do that? Don't they know they can be targeted anyway?), but I have never been able to make a Rogue appear when he is perma-stealthed.
~
bile sunburst and chains pretty much locks them down. bile punishing light pretty much guarantees that they can't re-stealth at all as well. they tend to go for clerics so it's easy for us to know where they are at any time.
TRs only encounter what is not easy to dodge is IS and its nerfed to hell. Can you tell me more about that glorious rotation?
no kidding. i regularly swap around my powers and i have never killed someone in a single rotation as we only have 4 encounters capable of dps and each has their own problems compared to the ease of a gwf.
Lashing Blade: strongest encounter, but who doesn't dodge as soon as a rogue enters melee range? only reliable when done from stealth and non-permas get 1 shot at that. without a vorpal, it's probably around 10k or less on clerics/gwf's/guardians. i actually thought melee fox shift was a rogue's wet dream on what we wanted lashing to be.......dodge it and they can immediately do it again b4 u can counter.
Dazing Strike: slow, but applies daze. also needs stealth unless your target is distracted or they can't dodge at the time. 3-7k damage
Deft Strike: 2-5k damage teleport and lets you play tag with hunters/wizards. generally useful for a quick combo or to burn off your target's dodges quicker but time-consuming to wait on a single person to burn every dodge. only other usefulness is to dodge a prone but that's it.
Blitz: 1-3k damage aoe. ironically, i almost beat a perma with this and potb o.o.......imagine if i actually had bile
PoTB: haven't tried it in pvp since it was changed yet, but it should average out to 11k on a dummy. downside is that it's an uncontrollable self-aoe of 17 hits that can be distributed in any way, takes time to deal all the hits, only the 1st hit benefits from stealth/combat advantage, and gains no benefits from overrun critical which is a 30% buff after a critical. as far as a single target nuke, not really useful.
Impact Shot: 2-5k damage from range with 3 charges but loses 33% of it's dps after every charge. also does not synergize at all with melee encounters so....it's pretty much a standalone encounter unless u take potb, shadow strike, or blitz with it. impact shot basically asks you a question, "do u want to do the damage of a lashing blade on a 24-30 sec cooldown or would you rather do the damage of a deft strike every 8-10 seconds from ranged.
Wicked Reminder: damage is slightly better than a single hit of duelist flurry and has a small aoe. places a 4% debuff and stacks 5 times. we r in melee so infrequently that i am not sure how viable this is.
all this is without vorpal and considering tenacity, but i don't really see a single build that can kill anyone in a single rotation and especially if they dodge.
It's time you stop trolling and stop talking about things you don't know about, ie. PvP.
People should play a TR first, and then comment. You will understand that the players that you think are "OP" are having maxed out toons that they play for months, they have BiS gear, BiS spec. But more importantly...
Something you don't have:
SKILLS.
Some things were broken about TRs. As in Shocking Execution getting a bit dumb. Yet good HRs still were able to kill me. A few times even good CWs managed it, and my toon is maxed and even I might not be the best in class, I still am somewhere in the top 5%.
At the same time, I trolled masses of unexperienced pugs and killed sometimes even 3-4 while remaining alive, on point.
You know why?
Cause they didn't have the gear, the spec and the skills and knowledge to take on me. Not their fault, but rather the matchmaking fault that put them together with me.
So ease down on the rivers of QQ about nerfing TRs yet again.
Sorry, i am playing as warriors/fighters in mmo's for over 12 years. I never really liked rogues, because the tactics and skills they are usually utilizing are kind of cowardish to me, especially in NW. It's got something to do with honor and the way i was raised irl i guess. I am not the best at PvP, mainly due to my toon being pretty much undergeared but i am not the worst either. For example i just recently managed to get rank 7 gems and really am trying to get good at GF, i am close to getting my headhunter title in like 12 matches and i am quite happy that my dps spec actually works. At the same time i am always busy irl and i haven't got hundreds of $$ to spare at will, unlike others.
---
Do you know of any mmo where attacking does not deplete stealth? NW is the first one, to me. Stealth is the biggest possible advantage a character in an mmo can have, besides invulnerability. You have to realize that you are effectively removing yourself from people's sight. They can only track the TR by listening to the speaker directions of the noises they make. If they do not happen to own an aoe skill or an artifact which has a long cd, there is no way to get the TR out of stealth. Being able to maintain such a state and dealing damage at the same time, is beyond ridiculous and also not very much D&D - like.
---
I know you play as a TR and you do it in top premades, but these premades resemble 5-10% of the entire pvp community. Balancing a game for 95% seems to be the better option here.
Do you know of any mmo where attacking does not deplete stealth? NW is the first one, to me.
L series , Archage, Wow, Swtor , Aion, C9 and a bunch of others .
They can only track the TR by listening to the speaker directions of the noises they make.
There is a far easier way to track Trs and lock them down. If you pay attention to your surroundings you will manage to see a slight aura coming from tr's echancements if you follow this aura with your cursor the Tr will appear and you will be able to inflict dps on him and get him off stealth . Even a slight debuff with a prone - lock down effect will suffice to bring us down. Plus dmg reflection echancements can help you deplete our stealth meter . Along with the artifact and your lock down - aoe dmg burst skills you can own even an experienced tr . Remember . Trs are counting on the psychological dmg their stealth inflicts to you. If you push them they will make a mistake eventually and they will be stomped .Another great tactic is to force perma stealth trs on pvp to fight on the center or their own spot . Pulling them from the shadows will deplete their gameplay and you will inflict pressure to them . This is how i track and kill perma stealth trs .
P.S : Sorry for my previous outburst . Sometimes i am getting angry w/o reason . Bah . .
L series , Archage, Wow, Swtor , Aion, C9 and a bunch of others .
There is a far easier way to track Trs and lock them down. If you pay attention to your surroundings you will manage to see a slight aura coming from tr's echancements if you follow this aura with your cursor the Tr will appear and you will be able to inflict dps on him and get him off stealth . Even a slight debuff with a prone - lock down effect will suffice to bring us down. Plus dmg reflection echancements can help you deplete our stealth meter . Along with the artifact and your lock down - aoe dmg burst skills you can own even an experienced tr . Remember . Trs are counting on the psychological dmg their stealth inflicts to you. If you push them they will make a mistake eventually and they will be stomped .Another great tactic is to force perma stealth trs on pvp to fight on the center or their own spot . Pulling them from the shadows will deplete their gameplay and you will inflict pressure to them . This is how i track and kill perma stealth trs .
P.S : Sorry for my previous outburst . Sometimes i am getting angry w/o reason . Bah . .
No problem, i get mad too easily myself.
--
I don't want the TR class to be useless i want the TR class to be good, without having to rely on perma stealth. I do not want to take away their class feature by all means. The entire class needs a decent rework, not just stealth. I remember when i played Aion, my girlfriend's Assassin there had only one 30 minute (i think 30 or 20 forgot) duration stealth mode**, that wore off as soon as she landed the first hit from stealth. Said hit was buffed by i think 500% dmg if executed from behind and the following attacks featured stuns, roots and slows. On top of that it had an escape - stealth for special cases that lasts 10 or 15 seconds and removes all negative debuffs instantly. Maybe what the TR needs is a similiar setup, since this always seemed to be pretty effective when we did mass aswell as 1on1 pvp. (i stopped playing Aion actively a few years ago and idk about the new skills they might have gotten over there)
**not sure if the CD was reset upon being defeated, but i think it is.
---
Besides, i never take anything that people say online as personal. They mostly don't mean it.
Sorry, i am playing as warriors/fighters in mmo's for over 12 years. I never really liked rogues, because the tactics and skills they are usually utilizing are kind of cowardish to me, especially in NW. It's got something to do with honor and the way i was raised irl i guess. I am not the best at PvP, mainly due to my toon being pretty much undergeared but i am not the worst either. For example i just recently managed to get rank 7 gems and really am trying to get good at GF, i am close to getting my headhunter title in like 12 matches and i am quite happy that my dps spec actually works. At the same time i am always busy irl and i haven't got hundreds of $$ to spare at will, unlike others.
---
Do you know of any mmo where attacking does not deplete stealth? NW is the first one, to me. Stealth is the biggest possible advantage a character in an mmo can have, besides invulnerability. You have to realize that you are effectively removing yourself from people's sight. They can only track the TR by listening to the speaker directions of the noises they make. If they do not happen to own an aoe skill or an artifact which has a long cd, there is no way to get the TR out of stealth. Being able to maintain such a state and dealing damage at the same time, is beyond ridiculous and also not very much D&D - like.
---
I know you play as a TR and you do it in top premades, but these premades resemble 5-10% of the entire pvp community. Balancing a game for 95% seems to be the better option here.
See you and have fun.
Firstly I'd like to add stealth is a mechanism that can activate anytime....Charmeleons camouflage doesn't need an enemy to be out line of sight or whatever. Anyway been playing this for a while but here's my 2 cents.let's look at how classes are suppose to be deal IMO :
Gf-can block, sacrificed speed and damage for AC
GWF - Unstoppable, sacrificed specialization becoz they are tanky but not as much as gf. They deal decent damage but not as much as TR. Relatively high AC (recent builds make gwf op now though)
CW-Sacrificed AC and special tab ability (no mana rush-when active you can spam encounters or some crazy ability like that.) for extra encounter and burst damage.(let's face it with tenacity,new patch they should rename it to just wizard,.HR has better control than a CW,in pvp at least)
TR-nerfed all forms of attack, it sacrificed AC and is suppose to deal massive damage in exchange because they die quickly but no.
TR deals pathetic damage now. That is why many people are perma stealth instead, you leave them no choice. If you nerf stealth and don't compensate with damage I can guarantee you will loose more than 43% of your TR player base,like me. Due to nerfs I've been playing with my other characters for over 4 months now. Oh, I've maxed 2 of each paragon path of the above classes so,yeah I know my fair share.
I know you play as a TR and you do it in top premades, but these premades resemble 5-10% of the entire pvp community. Balancing a game for 95% seems to be the better option here.
See you and have fun.
I also play a GWF as my other toon. Thought you should know. One of my main occupations last module was to contest against permas that were dramatically LOSING the fight, only to shocking execution me for 20K. Felt like all that Hp I was stacking was useless.
So I understand where the warriors come from as well.
But you have to know that TRs are also having their issues and frustrations. And most importantly, the really good players know how to deal with them properly.
0
katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
the whole idea of nerfing is wrong is they wanted balance the should have buffed the other classes, what is that saying if you are going down don't take others with you.
While I can understand you reasoning for saying that you must consider mine for also agreeing that something must be done with it. I do not PvP, I PvE. I had this power, I also have spent 5 paragon feats on an additional benefit of this power. Now it is of no use. It does less than my two encounter powers in damage. It does less than my AE damage daily. It has no viable use and something should be changed about it.
Sorry, i am playing as warriors/fighters in mmo's for over 12 years. I never really liked rogues, because the tactics and skills they are usually utilizing are kind of cowardish to me, especially in NW. It's got something to do with honor and the way i was raised irl i guess.
really am trying to get good at GF
lol I don't even know where to start. How can you say a TR is cowardish and then play a class that hides behind a shield. Hard to take you serious when you make comments like that
Devs have still to nerf TR a lot. Any pvp session sees the scenario of the perma capping your b1 and winning the game unless you also have a perma. The perma remains on your b1 until one or two blue people who happen to have anti-perma stuff go there, then the perma just leaves for ten seconds, very quickly moves to b2 (yes the stealth gives speed), OS some blue char (yes the stealth gives OS), and comes back to b1 as soon as the anti-perma blues guys have left. Unharmed and unstealthed, all the time.
In any other MMO, stealth makes you walk slower.
In any other MMO, hitting unstealthes you
Lots of nerfing work still in front of you devs, lot of work.
In any other MMO, stealth makes you walk slower.
In any other MMO, hitting unstealthes you
Lots of nerfing work still in front of you devs, lot of work.
nerfing stealth into the same as other mmo's will require a complete rework of the rogue stealth mechanic as too many of our abilities, class features, and feats work off of it.
i kinda doubt the devs are willing to do that as clerics and guardians are also in that same boat
also doesn't take much to deal with a perma as long as you have bilethorn. permas themselves use bile mostly to counter other permas, so take their strategy for yourself.
lol I don't even know where to start. How can you say a TR is cowardish and then play a class that hides behind a shield. Hard to take you serious when you make comments like that
Sorry but my GF isn't able to hold up his shield infinitely and blocking does not remove me from the game + i still can take damage and can even be rooted. If you're going to compare class mechanics, stop trying to ridicule my opinion and do it in a logical manner or just leave it be. I'm not expecting, you understand the meaning of the word "honor" but not stabbing people in their backs and running away from fights has something to do with it.
I don't like to play as a rogue and it's my decision/opinion, live with it.
P.S. It's hard to take you serious, when you aren't able to understand that.
Comments
That's the way it should be, rly. A TR has more than enough time and dmg to kill a target in one rotation. There is no need for the added godmode ontop if it. I could go deeper into details on why so many TR rely on broken game features but my post would just get deleted or edited anyway.
--
I mean most TR are half asleep by nature and when they manage to pull of "the oh wowwwwzor1111!!" perma show they think they really did accomplish something.. "special" and feel pro about it. It's a heavy form of delusion, tbh.
There surely are exceptions, but these are very rare.
If cryptic undo all the nerfs on our dps skills i will <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on perma stealth builds ..I will even accept removal of stealth.Don't come to cry here again if this happens because you will seriously miss our lack of dps on perma stealth.
TRs only encounter what is not easy to dodge is IS and its nerfed to hell. Can you tell me more about that glorious rotation?
i want to learn about this rotation too . Illuminate us oh great pvper colonelwing . The TR community wish to learn from your experience .
In the last 35 years I have played all versions since the original D&D, also AD&D First Edition, 2nd edit, 3rd edition and 3.5E and I can assure you that Cryptic designers and developers have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
All they need to do is read the 4E SRD and design the game according to that.
NO Powers should EVER have a Cool Down time lower than the duration of that power - I don't care how high your INT is, I don't care how high your Recovery is or how many +300 Silvery Enchants you have - it's as simple as that.
Permanent Stealth is absurdly stupid, unbalanced and incredibly poor design. Massive Backstab damage? Fine. Massive Critical Strikes? Fine. Permanently invisible? Don't talk such bloody tosh! How can you be Stealthed and Hidden in Shadows in broad daylight and in full view of your enemies? Especially when they are all looking for you as you just criticalled and stunned one of them.
And how can a Thief in leather armour stand toe-to-toe with a Cleric or a Warrior and have them completely disabled with Permanent STUN on top of Permanent Invisibility? How could that EVER happen, even in a fantasy game like AD&D?
It COULDN'T.
Not until this abortion was released.
And, of course, the GWF is also over-powered. A Cleric has to spend 5 Feat slots on a high level Feat to get a STUN effect with Flame Strike for 0.5 seconds! 0.5 seconds! And it is not even an AoE effect, it has to be precisely aimed and can be stepped out of without even having to Dodge, Sprint or Tumble.
And yet when I get gang-banged by a GWF, CW and a Rogue, all my keys are permanently greyed out as I hammer them, I am stunned, dazed, knocked prone and cannot move and in the microseconds when the key functions come back while I am hammering the keys, the effect does not fire and I am stunned again, powers are greyed out again, and I am dead within seconds.
But that is as much to do with the stupid queue system for PvP as the unbalanced class powers. I have been in almost as many teams where it was a walk over for us as I have been on the receiving end of being overwhelmed. A pair of balanced teams with a closely run match, when it happens, is a thing of beauty.
Since the latest patch my DC has been teamed with two CWs and 2 HRs against two GWFs, a GF and 2 Perma-Stealthed TRs twice, and with one CW, 2 HR's and another DC against the same sort of team three times.
What the bloody hell is THAT all about? It's like they took two reasonably balanced teams, then put all the Warriors and Rogues in one Team and all the DCs, CWs and TRs in the other.
Yeah, great patch, Cryptic.
~
TR adapt to each change. Finding creative ways to use powers that weren't used often before. Also all TRs are stealth based. It is build into our feats as well as our powers. Our damage is landing duelist flurry, which most TR have learned how to do. I would say it takes some time to learn the timing and against good pvp players you better be on your A game. If a TR is killing you quickly with dueliest, trust me the TR isn't the one with no skill build.
Of course people want to nerf our stealth. We are squishy and stealth makes it hard for them to target us. Catch a TR with no stealth and they are easy prey. CW really hate us (not so much after Impact nerf) because we are the one class they can't sit back and kill from 40 ft away. However, stealth is our class mechanic, it is built into all our powers/builds. If they change it to deplete on attacks or whatever then something will have to replace it. More damage or utility. And then TR will learn how to be successful with the new builds and people will ask for nerfs again.
It's time you stop trolling and stop talking about things you don't know about, ie. PvP.
People should play a TR first, and then comment. You will understand that the players that you think are "OP" are having maxed out toons that they play for months, they have BiS gear, BiS spec. But more importantly...
Something you don't have:
SKILLS.
Some things were broken about TRs. As in Shocking Execution getting a bit dumb. Yet good HRs still were able to kill me. A few times even good CWs managed it, and my toon is maxed and even I might not be the best in class, I still am somewhere in the top 5%.
At the same time, I trolled masses of unexperienced pugs and killed sometimes even 3-4 while remaining alive, on point.
You know why?
Cause they didn't have the gear, the spec and the skills and knowledge to take on me. Not their fault, but rather the matchmaking fault that put them together with me.
So ease down on the rivers of QQ about nerfing TRs yet again.
but even though TR have been nerfed more than anyone they are probably still one of the most played classes and the most feared in PVP.
Even at their most powerful people often kicked TR out of groups because why fill a slot with DPS when you can have dps and heal or dps and crowd control. and in most teams the TR is just that guy to kick you out of the most damage slot at the end. since there is no most cc or most buffs/debuffs category in that. and the benefit the TR does do by taking out trash or flanking the boss
is often unseen or ignored because hunter rangers do it way better and can kinda heal ALSO.
SO I don't mind that TRs get stripped a bit though it actually never in the way people want. as people are more hating on perma-stealthers than crit monkeys so this nerf is probably not going to satisfy them. but please give TR enthusiasts something that will make us useful to the party, more flanking benefits, pve mob debuffs, maybe some poison related stackable that pvpers are resistant to, healing is of course just crazy talk on a rogue. "hey party member let me stab you with healing" yeah probably not.
also the most recent nerfs prove they do NOT nerf to improve PVP. I they did it would not be crit they nerf it would be stealth as stealth is what people complain about in pvp. PWE nerfs to make it harder for people to solo content and rip through bosses. this is a company that adds mobs to dragons. so instead of making harder more challenging bosses that rely on use of terrain and carful cooperation all they have to do is nerf the classes that do the most damage.
OK, go on then - do one for a Cleric and post it here, because apart from the Lantern, which very rarely works, I have yet to see it happen.
I can hit them with At Wills as they bounce aroond like bufoons (why do they do that? Don't they know they can be targeted anyway?), but I have never been able to make a Rogue appear when he is perma-stealthed.
~
Actually, no, I am a TR that does not use anything close to Perma Stealth and I can do nice scores on PVP and have not many problems in PVE other than DPS. BUT I agree that if they make this big change to perma stealth, they will have to give a free respec token because else its going to hurt alot of players!
BTW: The point of this thread is Buff normal TR playstyle but FIX the Permastealth problem, this way it wont make them useless.
bile sunburst and chains pretty much locks them down. bile punishing light pretty much guarantees that they can't re-stealth at all as well. they tend to go for clerics so it's easy for us to know where they are at any time.
no kidding. i regularly swap around my powers and i have never killed someone in a single rotation as we only have 4 encounters capable of dps and each has their own problems compared to the ease of a gwf.
all this is without vorpal and considering tenacity, but i don't really see a single build that can kill anyone in a single rotation and especially if they dodge.
I already do that with not much lifesteal, I get about 700 healing on LB (I know its not much but it helps) so it would not be gamebreaking.
Sorry, i am playing as warriors/fighters in mmo's for over 12 years. I never really liked rogues, because the tactics and skills they are usually utilizing are kind of cowardish to me, especially in NW. It's got something to do with honor and the way i was raised irl i guess. I am not the best at PvP, mainly due to my toon being pretty much undergeared but i am not the worst either. For example i just recently managed to get rank 7 gems and really am trying to get good at GF, i am close to getting my headhunter title in like 12 matches and i am quite happy that my dps spec actually works. At the same time i am always busy irl and i haven't got hundreds of $$ to spare at will, unlike others.
---
Do you know of any mmo where attacking does not deplete stealth? NW is the first one, to me. Stealth is the biggest possible advantage a character in an mmo can have, besides invulnerability. You have to realize that you are effectively removing yourself from people's sight. They can only track the TR by listening to the speaker directions of the noises they make. If they do not happen to own an aoe skill or an artifact which has a long cd, there is no way to get the TR out of stealth. Being able to maintain such a state and dealing damage at the same time, is beyond ridiculous and also not very much D&D - like.
---
I know you play as a TR and you do it in top premades, but these premades resemble 5-10% of the entire pvp community. Balancing a game for 95% seems to be the better option here.
See you and have fun.
RO for example, old korean MMORPG and I can say it was most balanced PvP I ever played. Sadly our community is dead on this game...
L series , Archage, Wow, Swtor , Aion, C9 and a bunch of others .
There is a far easier way to track Trs and lock them down. If you pay attention to your surroundings you will manage to see a slight aura coming from tr's echancements if you follow this aura with your cursor the Tr will appear and you will be able to inflict dps on him and get him off stealth . Even a slight debuff with a prone - lock down effect will suffice to bring us down. Plus dmg reflection echancements can help you deplete our stealth meter . Along with the artifact and your lock down - aoe dmg burst skills you can own even an experienced tr . Remember . Trs are counting on the psychological dmg their stealth inflicts to you. If you push them they will make a mistake eventually and they will be stomped .Another great tactic is to force perma stealth trs on pvp to fight on the center or their own spot . Pulling them from the shadows will deplete their gameplay and you will inflict pressure to them . This is how i track and kill perma stealth trs .
P.S : Sorry for my previous outburst . Sometimes i am getting angry w/o reason . Bah .
No problem, i get mad too easily myself.
--
I don't want the TR class to be useless i want the TR class to be good, without having to rely on perma stealth. I do not want to take away their class feature by all means. The entire class needs a decent rework, not just stealth. I remember when i played Aion, my girlfriend's Assassin there had only one 30 minute (i think 30 or 20 forgot) duration stealth mode**, that wore off as soon as she landed the first hit from stealth. Said hit was buffed by i think 500% dmg if executed from behind and the following attacks featured stuns, roots and slows. On top of that it had an escape - stealth for special cases that lasts 10 or 15 seconds and removes all negative debuffs instantly. Maybe what the TR needs is a similiar setup, since this always seemed to be pretty effective when we did mass aswell as 1on1 pvp. (i stopped playing Aion actively a few years ago and idk about the new skills they might have gotten over there)
**not sure if the CD was reset upon being defeated, but i think it is.
---
Besides, i never take anything that people say online as personal. They mostly don't mean it.
Take care
Firstly I'd like to add stealth is a mechanism that can activate anytime....Charmeleons camouflage doesn't need an enemy to be out line of sight or whatever. Anyway been playing this for a while but here's my 2 cents.let's look at how classes are suppose to be deal IMO :
Gf-can block, sacrificed speed and damage for AC
GWF - Unstoppable, sacrificed specialization becoz they are tanky but not as much as gf. They deal decent damage but not as much as TR. Relatively high AC (recent builds make gwf op now though)
CW-Sacrificed AC and special tab ability (no mana rush-when active you can spam encounters or some crazy ability like that.) for extra encounter and burst damage.(let's face it with tenacity,new patch they should rename it to just wizard,.HR has better control than a CW,in pvp at least)
TR-nerfed all forms of attack, it sacrificed AC and is suppose to deal massive damage in exchange because they die quickly but no.
TR deals pathetic damage now. That is why many people are perma stealth instead, you leave them no choice. If you nerf stealth and don't compensate with damage I can guarantee you will loose more than 43% of your TR player base,like me. Due to nerfs I've been playing with my other characters for over 4 months now. Oh, I've maxed 2 of each paragon path of the above classes so,yeah I know my fair share.
I also play a GWF as my other toon. Thought you should know. One of my main occupations last module was to contest against permas that were dramatically LOSING the fight, only to shocking execution me for 20K. Felt like all that Hp I was stacking was useless.
So I understand where the warriors come from as well.
But you have to know that TRs are also having their issues and frustrations. And most importantly, the really good players know how to deal with them properly.
No.
While I can understand you reasoning for saying that you must consider mine for also agreeing that something must be done with it. I do not PvP, I PvE. I had this power, I also have spent 5 paragon feats on an additional benefit of this power. Now it is of no use. It does less than my two encounter powers in damage. It does less than my AE damage daily. It has no viable use and something should be changed about it.
lol I don't even know where to start. How can you say a TR is cowardish and then play a class that hides behind a shield. Hard to take you serious when you make comments like that
Kind of agreed with the statement on the GWF comment.
Ebony (Whisperknife)
In any other MMO, stealth makes you walk slower.
In any other MMO, hitting unstealthes you
Lots of nerfing work still in front of you devs, lot of work.
nerfing stealth into the same as other mmo's will require a complete rework of the rogue stealth mechanic as too many of our abilities, class features, and feats work off of it.
i kinda doubt the devs are willing to do that as clerics and guardians are also in that same boat
also doesn't take much to deal with a perma as long as you have bilethorn. permas themselves use bile mostly to counter other permas, so take their strategy for yourself.
Sorry but my GF isn't able to hold up his shield infinitely and blocking does not remove me from the game + i still can take damage and can even be rooted. If you're going to compare class mechanics, stop trying to ridicule my opinion and do it in a logical manner or just leave it be. I'm not expecting, you understand the meaning of the word "honor" but not stabbing people in their backs and running away from fights has something to do with it.
I don't like to play as a rogue and it's my decision/opinion, live with it.
P.S. It's hard to take you serious, when you aren't able to understand that.