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Why you keep doing this to TR? (Serious Discussion)
brun2000
Member Posts: 244 Arc User
I am really sick of what you are doing to TR, on the day this game came out, it was an OP class indeed, but you know what you did? You nerfed every ability that does significant damage! Especially shocking execution that got a 40% damage nerf and the PRONE, the daium PRONE got removed! I dont even... why!!! Its the only class that has no prones now! DC has a prone, CW has prone, GWF has prone, GF has a **** load of prones, HR has a prone, TR has no prones.
You nerfed the overall damage of TR and cooldowns, being the class with slower DP gathering relying alot more on Encounters and At-Will, you even nerfed the damage and how many stacks you can have on Cloud of Steel!
Now tell me, you don't like executioners? Then why create them? You only make people upset with this, its the most useless class in this game ATM and its not even a joke! GWF for example, can do TR's job with more sustain and damage wich is 1v1 Combat (even bosses), HR can do the same with endless dodges and insane range gap closers and openers.
You know what TR is useful for? Exploits! Is that the class you want? Because its literally what you are doing!
Every other class can do TR's Job (not counting on DC's ofc) better but 1 thing: Dungeon runs (O.o Is this new to you? I guess you were never invited/invited a TR to a party in Gauntlgrym and Asked if they knew how to run the dungeon?)
Also, yesterday, there was a bug in Dread Ring where the gate would not open in a dungeon and TR's were the only ones being able to make the dungeon and thats what they were being invited for.
Let me guess: "what about perma-stealth?"
I know that's still a problem but its not mine, I don't do that! Many people don't, but when they do, they are certainly OP. If its because of this that you nerfed them so hard... why not fix the skills that can make you go perma-stealth? For example, if you make those abilities only give 80% of stealth metter back, I can GUARANTEE YOU that its not going to happen, people are going to change their gear cuz its not viable anymore and its not gamebreaking.
Now, what do I mean with all this text that you probably didn't read: Give TR's the prone back, 10 Cloud of Steel stacks at least, 20% more dmg on shocking execution, and remove the impact shot stack damage based thing WHILE fixing the Perma-Stealth problems, also please give more dmg on Path of the Blade and Duelist's Flurry just so we have a chance to compete in DPS again for dungeons (these skills are rarely used in PVP and are not very successful)
Thank you!
You nerfed the overall damage of TR and cooldowns, being the class with slower DP gathering relying alot more on Encounters and At-Will, you even nerfed the damage and how many stacks you can have on Cloud of Steel!
Now tell me, you don't like executioners? Then why create them? You only make people upset with this, its the most useless class in this game ATM and its not even a joke! GWF for example, can do TR's job with more sustain and damage wich is 1v1 Combat (even bosses), HR can do the same with endless dodges and insane range gap closers and openers.
You know what TR is useful for? Exploits! Is that the class you want? Because its literally what you are doing!
Every other class can do TR's Job (not counting on DC's ofc) better but 1 thing: Dungeon runs (O.o Is this new to you? I guess you were never invited/invited a TR to a party in Gauntlgrym and Asked if they knew how to run the dungeon?)
Also, yesterday, there was a bug in Dread Ring where the gate would not open in a dungeon and TR's were the only ones being able to make the dungeon and thats what they were being invited for.
Let me guess: "what about perma-stealth?"
I know that's still a problem but its not mine, I don't do that! Many people don't, but when they do, they are certainly OP. If its because of this that you nerfed them so hard... why not fix the skills that can make you go perma-stealth? For example, if you make those abilities only give 80% of stealth metter back, I can GUARANTEE YOU that its not going to happen, people are going to change their gear cuz its not viable anymore and its not gamebreaking.
Now, what do I mean with all this text that you probably didn't read: Give TR's the prone back, 10 Cloud of Steel stacks at least, 20% more dmg on shocking execution, and remove the impact shot stack damage based thing WHILE fixing the Perma-Stealth problems, also please give more dmg on Path of the Blade and Duelist's Flurry just so we have a chance to compete in DPS again for dungeons (these skills are rarely used in PVP and are not very successful)
Thank you!
Post edited by brun2000 on
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Comments
However, TR also has a very active player base that is constantly adapting to the new changes.
No more one-shotting? Build up defensive stats and stealth abilities.
Damage nerfs? Bilethorn stealth build.
No more impact shot? Path of blades.
Shocking execution nerfed? 20k whirlwind of blades to multiple targets, or still use it because it's not nerfed that much..
There will always be something about the TR class that people will complain about. For every class for that matter. At the moment, TR is far from useless in PvP. What you said here:
just lets us know that you know absolutely nothing about TR in PvP. For PvE, TR has in fact been nerfed to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. There is no possible way that a TR can keep up with a good CW or destroyer GWF, even if they're spec'd for maximum damage in PvE. You can pass up most pugs in damage, sure, but equally skilled players not a chance. It's obviously been difficult for this game to balance out classes both in PvP and PvE.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
Are you serious here? I know many combat based TRs who just own in pvp. They don't deal too much dmg in pve, but you can't please everyone (that's what I'm thinking). And duelist's flurry isn't used much in pvp? How many matches you played during last 2 months. Three? Or Two? Which apparently had no rogues in them.
Argue about buffing skills which focus on PVE because PVP TR still needs some nerfing.
the nerfing needs to stop though as shocking is no longer viable in pve/pvp. yeah it can still be used in pvp, but in order to kill someone with it the target would need to be weak enough that whirlwind of blades could already do so and as an aoe.
They're not wanted in PVE groups anyway to be honest. They can't tank for CWs or Agro a blob like the GWF.
What are they compared to HR even after they got nerfed? A: Nothing unless they are not very good at positioning! Lashing blade? Let me just use my free no-move dodge to remove that 15k crit out of me! I know it hurts, but there is just so much counter play for that as it has 20 sec CD (no recovery) that it does not really matter if you position youself right!
Now, What you said... I have played vs alot of TR's and alot of them using those skills I mentioned earlyer and let me just tell you this, Duelist's Flurry? No way you can get full proc no that uless you are trying to kill a cleric in the middle of his circle in wich case he takes not enough dmg for it to be effective. Alot of GWF? Using that will kill you as they can susrvive it without a scratch because you are not moving and they deal 20k to you so fast that you don't even have time to shift away.
Path of blade? Lets be honest, compared to most skills in TR, it does not deal that much damage. Tr needs to kill in a burst or he's going to suffer alot, in wich case, this skill can't do it!
You can't deny that this is happening, TR is pretty much the "why do I need them?" class! There are just so many classes that can do its job better that it even hurts when people ignore your messages to enter groups for dungeons...
Them: "LFG DPS CLASS FOR [Whatever] WITH [Insert GS here]" You:"TR here, can I go?" Them 3 minutes later when they found someone else: "Sorry, party is full, just got a GWF"
Come on! The amount of times that has happened to me is insane! It makes me want quit this game way too hard!
Thats the problem! Noone wants them! They're useless, other classes can do its job better!"
TR is still one of the top classes, but the SX nerf was wayyyy to much.
Because dps nerfs, they were 24/7 before nerfs in CN as dps & tank. (They can tank CN now too)
Wanna fix perma?, as stated in the begining, shadow strike and switch and bait should grant 75% of the stealth bar, not full bar
. And while they're on it, ... shouldn't the trickster rogue have instead of, the so demonized stealth mechanic, should have better ways to breack free from control,(trickster...) , yeah, you can argue that he break free is kind of op (tell that to the GWF) , but at least, he is still visible and targetable, why not reworking some existing powers to make them a little bit more original, I dunno, why not, using switch and bait to escape from control while you leave the decoy? see how easy, why not giving the rogues other tools of gameplay? why not giving BETTER ARMOR BONUSES instead of the recovery which make perma so easy to achieve.
. I played practically 3 rogues, and game push you towards perma, hell, even my current whisperknife (who got seriously nerfed to with vengeful pursuit) who's not built for perma, eventually will do perma without major problems. I don't like perma stealth playstyle, but in the end, it's the best build for rogues, because even deflection builds, are harder to achieve than perma, again, making this builds more reliable and effective style
. If they're so lost, and so out of ideas/imagination (hard to believe since they got a lot of references and Data base from D&D books) why not checking the forums, players have sugested lot of ideas
. But the worst is, the lack of word from them, a little word at least "we are working on it" or "we are reading to your concerns and ideas" will give some hope the the player base
can you still say that about non-permas as perma, itself, is also slated to be nerfed soon and we all know how nerfs are carried out
Cryptic was discussing balancing the stealth mechanic. I don't know what it implies to PVE TR and non-perma TR yet
Check new IV Destroyer GWF on module 3, its even more godmode then IV Sentiel before Tenacity on module 2. TR, even perma is nothing against this.
The problem is my TR (non perma executioner) depends on stealth for damage and protection. As for PvE and PvP the GWF still does way too much despite the recent nerfs. For example, a similar gs GWF can burn a single mob down faster than my TR even while in stealth and with CA. A lot of this is because the majority of TR damage is coming from the third part of Duelist Fury (an at-will) versus firing off a bunch of high damage encounters like a GWF. For those who don't know a TR has damage encounters too but they take them out of stealth and then their damage buffs (and protection) are gone.
So what to do? I have no idea as stealth is such an integral part of a TRs DPS and protection. Without it people will kill them in PvP without thought and in PvE they would become even more less desired. I know on my CW permas drive me nuts as I don't have any really counter. Maybe they can fix the CW bug zapper, which they recently nerfed to prevent building AP, to do the job? Like make the build time for it 1/3 of what it is now? All they really need is some way to damage permas to break their stealth so they can get a chance to target them.
I would say it is the HR. At higher levels they are beastly and near impossible to kill. With six dodges and six encounters (some with multiple charges) they are the true force to recon with in PvP. I guess people have failed to notice them due to their ranged strikes or often confuse them for TRs when they get killed via Fox Shift. The recent buffs to the class allow them to heal off most damage pretty fast too.
Also, Path of the Blades got a buff with being able to crit now (less non-crit damage but it hurts more now that it can crit).
If DC's had Rightousness removed they would be impossible to kill in PvP even with the heal depression. The reason they are a joke right now is because they don't do any real damage and their damaging encounters are poorly designed. Some of the junk feats in their skill tree (they have lots of them) should be replaced with damage modifiers. Buffing DC damage will also assist them in Icewind Dale campaign.
And it scales with crit, with an 40% critchance and executioner specced, against an enemy with 20% tenecity its around an 1% buff when i did the math.
The huge deal for trs is that they fixed CA, so they do way more dmg in stealth now.
That is what I'm hearing.
You have a point. HRs are getting ridiculous
The thing is, TRs have been unfairly overpowered in PVP for the most part since open beta.
A lot of this stuff has been a long time coming. Would you rather play a GF or a DC in PVE or PVP?
The I know the perma-stealth is a really issues for a open area pvp. they can.. do some other thing to avoid that... give equipment with other stats than RECOVERY for example, make ITC not give immunity to damage when it cast on stealth (give the Immunity to CC, if you want), make the skill which refill the stealth lesser effective but instead give them something to trade.. like switch and bait release form control and let the "bait" instead (like ninja), and only recover the 50% or less of stealth bar, shadow strike refill 60%-80% of the stealth bar but give some damage increments... thing like that you will more effective TR and non-perma.
Want to nerf stealth? can make the TR became visible for a sec when he cast a skill of range... (in this sec the stealth bar don't consume or recharge, at least he got hit)
There is a lot of option you can do to avoid perma-stealth, i think they didn't take the best way to do it
With the black ice gear and the empowered enchants, ppl will be way more tanky than now.
I could reach 40k hp 2800 regen and 2500 defense on an HR. I highly doubt any tr will be able to dps through those stats.
maybe at the high-end, but i had no trouble killing 2 clerics healing each other before healing depression. it was just a matter of their team killing mine 1st, if my team actually helped focus down the clerics with me, or if the clerics spammed that immunity skill (in which case we would cap the other 2 nodes and give them the choice to split up and die or run as a pack of 5) >.>
ironically, one time my dps cleric ran into 2 heal clerics and i killed both by myself and that was also before healing depression. kinda rare to not get interrupted these days.
people say clerics can be god-mode, but that is likely only the top-end of all clerics. most die so easily that it doesn't matter if they weren't under healing depression.
Attacks have to deplete stealth in order to balance it, it's as simple as that. Adjust the stealth meter - refilling skills to +75% meter not 100% and everything is cool but crispy.
Go, go Cryptic, you guys can do this.
1) You can't solo join queue. You can solo some bosses, but thanks to doors, etc. it takes ages because stealth != out of combat. There was video of GWF on module 2 doing solo CN 2/4. Even DC doing solo last boss from FH. So tell me more about how is TR only character who can make solo epic dungeon content.
2) Ward, Fox Shift. Perma is effective only on melee because DF... Are you Archery glass cannon HR?
3) How? Its true perma TR is sure OP against dumb people in PvP, but how is he more powerful then other classes?
I don't know what TRs you've played with or against but speaking as a GWF(sent) I have no problem saying that "permas" are quite the opposite of "nothing" against me.
This will never work. why?
1. Tr's without stealth are dead, simple as that. Atleast against smart ppl. Without stealth and itc, trs are by far the squishiest class.
If those stealth changes will happen, they have to give trs a class feature that is similar to lone wolf on hr's.
Then try respec to IV Destroyer, I don't have any other word for that then madness, we were trying it for few hours with friend and imho its crime against common sense.