To play devils advocate here, the matchmaking system has been making really one sided games GS wise. For example, puts one high GS person with 4 low ones in order to balance out the team. I often have to play very frustrating matches like this one:
10k, 10k, 9k, 11k, me 16.5k VS 10k, 10k, 15k, 16.8k, 16.9k.
Number wise it might not seem all that bad if it averages out but it really is when one team has 3 high gs ppl and the other has one.
It means that they will clear the whole team but the one guy so fast he will constantly be tanking 4+ and feel like hes the only person doing anything. Which, if he is a rager, will make him outcry against his lowbies. I'm not condoning it(the rage), but I definitely understand his frustration. Especially with the addition of the leaderboards, almost all pug losses for skilled players at high GS come from situations like this.
The matchmaking was poorly thought out and the leaderboards should not have been added until matchmaking is fair and consistent.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
if you expect a well equipped team, just save yourself the trouble and do not PuG.
It's easy, once comprehended.
If you can not accept that, you are thrown together with people who do not share your "view of the world" it is not their fault, but more likely yours.
The devs gave you the option to queue with a 5 man team. By your refusal to use that tool, you just hurt yourself.
There are people out there, and you will not like to hear that, that do PvP just for fun. They do not care about wín or loss, GS or tactics. They might not intend to troll you, but you might most certainly feel that way.
It's different opinions.
Use the option to form a party with like minded players. It is there. It's not hard. It can be done.
Nowadays getting a GS of let's say 10k flat, takes 2 days with zero to no effort. I agree to an extent, that GS does not indicate actual player skill. But what GS does is, it shows other gamers that you have put at least some thought and effort into gearing up your toon(s). It does not have to be rank 10/perfect. I used rank 5-6 from lvl 10-59 then switched to rank 7's with the help of a friend since i could not afford it myself.
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Even if the gear is entirely composed of green lvl 60's with let's assume rank 5 gems in it. 10k GS is easy to achieve. The boons from sharandar/dread ring/icewind dale boost anybody's GS by at least ~1500 points, too. The first hree ones are easy to obtain, in my opinion (ok the sharandar one is a bit annoying, though). Get the two free and very easy to obtain artifacts and at least refine them up to a blue rank. Mounts do not matter that much anymore due to the new mounting - up system.
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Getting the pvp artifact instead of a T1 set, seems illogical to me since one can get the artifact way easier if there is a certain amount of tenacity on ones toon(s) and the set boni are great for starters. T1 set parts cost only 8-30k AD each.
P.S. there are cheap lvl 55 blue pants and shirts for sale on the AH ususally.
if you expect a well equipped team, just save yourself the trouble and do not PuG.
It's easy, once comprehended.
If you can not accept that, you are thrown together with people who do not share your "view of the world" it is not their fault, but more likely yours.
The devs gave you the option to queue with a 5 man team. By your refusal to use that tool, you just hurt yourself.
There are people out there, and you will not like to hear that, that do PvP just for fun. They do not care about wín or loss, GS or tactics. They might not intend to troll you, but you might most certainly feel that way.
It's different opinions.
Use the option to form a party with like minded players. It is there. It's not hard. It can be done.
*sigh*
Look. Nobody is asking for 'well equipped teams'. People are suggesting that going into L60 PvP essentially butt naked is less than optimal even for PuGs. And should generally be discouraged. But you carry on missing the point if it makes you feel superior.
They do not care about wín or loss, GS or tactics.
To summarize: they are there for the AD from the dailies. The whole "play as a team" and competitive play is beyond their selfish reason for being there so they AFK at the camp the whole match so they can get their fun completed sooner. The Lord Protector and Rhix PvP quests should be changed to require wins.
The flip side is also the argument we've been listening to for months. I rarely go premade because the game is over so fast 9 times out of 10 there is no enjoyment. The outcry against premades is all we've heard for way too long. We get to point 2 and everyone sees the same guild tag, they campfire it out after that.
If there isn't already a starter pool for ELO ranking, there should be. An 8k gs player should never drop into his/ her first match against someone with a 5:1 w/l ratio or higher who almost doubles their gs. I have one shot 3 players since the mod launched, it has been months since I was able to do that. If that was my introduction to PvP in this game I would've probably found another game. For the sake of the new players and the sanity of the well equipped, there should be a wading pool for new lvl 60 pvp.
My lashing blade crits for around 15k soooo whenever you wanna go against me in PVP hmu. In fact with crits duelist flurry can get to 9k. I remeber spending a match protecting an 8k GWF from getting killed. Not fun but we won
"There should be" many things. Balance between classes, all should hail my name in devotion, a perfect game, but there is not at the moment.
If someone can not cope with the RNG that puts him together with strangers don't use the queue but form a pre-made according to your preference.
If you consider everyone not in all blues or purples a clueless person it shows your mindset and your acceptance of others.
I could not more vehemently state my tolerance of, and joy playing along side, low gs players who want to win. So that part of a counter-point to anything I say, is invalid from the start. What the "qq anti-leet peeveepee" people don't want to address is that most of the problem with really low gs people is that they also usually dont want to win. A low gs indicates a lack of desire in improving ones character or play. That indication is not ALWAYS absolutely correct but it is usually a good clue.
Ever play hoops (a pickup game of basketball at the court in the local public park)? You realize if you show up and get into a game and just throw the ball all over the place like its dodge ball or everyone stands out of bounds off to the side the whole match, and generally dont know how to play the game and dont care, the guys on your team are going to scream at you and odds of getting into a fist fight are more than slim. Justifiably. It is the same thing here. It is like "oh my god why did you even show up??". I can't even imagine standing at courtside and calling the players elitists for being mad when someone shows up and doesnt even care about winning.
The trend seems to be putting at least 1 experienced overgeared player together with lowbies. I don't know if the intention is to encourage them to teach the lowbies, provide more variety of challenges or just to balance out the que times? When this happens, a good strategy is to target them. I have seen this happen a few times and in those cases lead to winning the matches. So having lowbies in your group isn't so much a bad thing. The way I look at it is you have to work with what you've got. If you rally your lowbies together, collectively they can overcome the toughest of challenges. Of course this is assuming the lowbies can work together to chain CC or are using the correct spells. However, chances are if you have lowbies on your team then the other team will have lowbies also.
Failing this if you are experienced, overgeared and have a high level of skill then single out the other player on the opposing team and either attempt to kill them yourself or kite them around and keep them away from stomping all over your lowbie team members.
Group compositions like this aren't the norm, but I do see how the matchmaking system works.
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maroucatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
They need to factor GearScore into the matchmaking. As someone who started playing again after a hiatus of several months, it's not fun to go into a match with 10.5k GS and fight a premade of toons with 18k+ GS.
This problem isn't unique to Neverwinter, it happens in every MMO due to the infinite gearflation. If it was addressed somehow through matchmaking PvP would be enjoyable again. Right now it's just something to suffer through every day for free astral diamonds.
I'd rather wait 30 minutes for a fun PvP match then get in within 2 minutes and it be a laughable situation where 2 people from a premade insta-gib anyone trying to leave the campfire area as the rest of their team falls asleep from boredom elsewhere on the map.
...uh. Wait: xlsdoc, how can 1 person be a premade?
A premade group of....1? Or are we just using premade as shorthand for "experienced overgeared player", now?
Also, overdrive, your hoops analogy only works if you take as read that "low GS == troll/campfire_dude_here_for_the_daily", whereas it could just be someone new. It'd work better if it was a case of a short dude who can't jump well turning up all enthusiastic to play, only to be told to "go buy some height and jumpy legs on the AH, nub".
Gearscore is not a good metric for player skill, nor is it a good metric for player enthusiasm. I've seen plenty of 15k peeps sitting out in the campfire.
I'd rather wait 30 minutes for a fun PvP match then get in within 2 minutes and it be a laughable situation where 2 people from a premade insta-gib anyone trying to leave the campfire area as the rest of their team falls asleep from boredom elsewhere on the map.
Problem is, if after 29 minutes of waiting you need to take a leak, or are in a shop, or answering the door, or ... and the queue pops in that time, you are back at the start.
'cause you are not kept in the line, but are thrown out of the queue.
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maroucatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Gearscore is not a good metric for player skill, nor is it a good metric for player enthusiasm. I've seen plenty of 15k peeps sitting out in the campfire.
That's true, but it's also true that a team of people with 10k GearScore don't stand a chance against a team of people with the best stuff the game has to offer, unless those people are utterly terrible and half are afk'ing.
GearScore needs to be a part of the match-making equation. Even though this has an action combat system it is foremost an RPG, which means progression trumps player skill to a fairly high degree. If someone can killl you in one rotation, and you must hit them at least 15 times to inflict a kill, you have to be 5X better than the other person to win. The skill cap in this game is not high enough to make that likely.
Problem is, if after 29 minutes of waiting you need to take a leak, or are in a shop, or answering the door, or ... and the queue pops in that time, you are back at the start.
'cause you are not kept in the line, but are thrown out of the queue.
Very true, and kind of annoying, but it beats having matches that aren't fun unless you're a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
...uh. Wait: xlsdoc, how can 1 person be a premade?
A premade group of....1? Or are we just using premade as shorthand for "experienced overgeared player", now?
Yes I was meaning an experienced overgeared player. I probably should use the correct description.
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maroucatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
Anyways, I'd love to see something like this at 60:
Queue for PvP:
Domination (Any - Fastest)
Domination (Starter to T1) Lowest Rewards
Domination (T1 to T2) Medium Rewards
Domination (Munchkin) Highest rewards
I love PvP in this game, it's fun. It's just pretty broken with a fresh character right now. Most all MMO's across history have ignored the problem, so I'd be shocked if PW did anything about it.
It's just going to get worse over time as more and more gear, artifacts, and boons are added. I think gearflation is the #1 reason MMO's start retaining less and less players over time. If a game has been out awhile hitting level cap means things like battlegrounds, etc., are no longer things you can do without weeks of grinding ahead of you.
...uh. Wait: xlsdoc, how can 1 person be a premade?
A premade group of....1? Or are we just using premade as shorthand for "experienced overgeared player", now?
Also, overdrive, your hoops analogy only works if you take as read that "low GS == troll/campfire_dude_here_for_the_daily", whereas it could just be someone new. It'd work better if it was a case of a short dude who can't jump well turning up all enthusiastic to play, only to be told to "go buy some height and jumpy legs on the AH, nub".
Gearscore is not a good metric for player skill, nor is it a good metric for player enthusiasm. I've seen plenty of 15k peeps sitting out in the campfire.
The analogy works for the type of players whos gs I actually look at: fail players with zero desire to win or to improve. Someone keeps doing the wrong things after being politely asked to do the right things and I check their gs. Otherwise it is a non issue. Die a lot? So what. In an average pug you can just go right back to what you were doing when you died and it wont make that much difference. As long as you were doing the right thing. Like I said many times a good pug isnt necessarily high-gs and leading the scoreboard at the end. Winning the match and having your whole low gs team at the bottom of the scoreboard is especially rewarding and one of the reasons why I am addicted to pugging.
The "low gs, can't play?" is a question based on a false premise. It is an assumption based on what trolls in pvp say. Not the most credible sources of a basis from which to ask a hot-topic question.
Anyways, I'd love to see something like this at 60:
Queue for PvP:
Domination (Any - Fastest)
Domination (Starter to T1) Lowest Rewards
Domination (T1 to T2) Medium Rewards
Domination (Munchkin) Highest rewards
And how do you prevent someone most suited for the "lowest rewards level" to queue for the "highest reards level" and try to leech this highest reward?
How do you prevent player that is doing fine in the "highest rewards level" from trolling in the "lowest rewards level"?
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maroucatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And how do you prevent someone most suited for the "lowest rewards level" to queue for the "highest reards level" and try to leech this highest reward?
How do you prevent player that is doing fine in the "highest rewards level" from trolling in the "lowest rewards level"?
Not my problem to solve, but I'd guess restrictions on the queuing. You can't change gear while queue'd or in a match, and you can't queue for tiers you don't quality for. They already do this to some extent with Dungeon queuing, you can't queue dungeons you don't meet the requirement for.
Think about this game another year from now. You're gonna have seasoned characters running around with 100k+ HP and fresh level 60's will still have 2Xk HP. Probably with boons to literally breath fire and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on people from the dragon expansion.
If something like this isn't in place, it's just shutting out new players from doing PvP at all, and increasing the grind more and more over time to get them to the point that they can have fun matches. If PvP already isn't fun now for a fresh char, and the game is this young, it's really gonna be bad later.
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maroucatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The obvious answer is of course: you don't. You make rewards for every category the same. The only reason you'd select a certain category would be to determine your desired level of fun. Queue too high or too low and you'll get/will be roflstomping.
Valid point here being that even without restrictions it'd be superior to what we got today. There are a handful of buttheads in any game, but most people want a fun back and forth PvP match, or to dominate against people that have no excuse for losing.
Makes the idea of "highest rewards level" and "lowest rewards level" kind of useless, no?
As you might be referring to "difficulty classes" I suggest, to make these classes mean something, that you can buy your way up with AD (not glory) so you can change for , idk, 100k AD from league A to league B.
This would prevent trolls a bit, and League hoppers.
Otherwise I assume "this was a tough match for us. lets go and farm a few pugs before logging of" would be too common.
And this is certainly not in the interest of good players, who want to play PvP for a challenge.
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maroucatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Makes the idea of "highest rewards level" and "lowest rewards level" kind of useless, no?
As you might be referring to "difficulty classes" I suggest, to make these classes mean something, that you can buy your way up with AD (not glory) so you can change for , idk, 100k AD from league A to league B.
This would prevent trolls a bit, and League hoppers.
Otherwise I assume "this was a tough match for us. lets go and farm a few pugs before logging of" would be too common.
And this is certainly not in the interest of good players, who want to play PvP for a challenge.
I think conceptually the vast majority of PvP players could agree that they want a challenge in PvP, and tier matching at the "endgame" makes sense, since it's tiered while leveling, and gear differences at end-game can mean more than 10 levels do in the lower tiers. Right now a fresh ungeared level 60 is like getting stuck in the 50-59 brackets at level 25, in time, it will be like being stuck in the 50-59 bracket at level 10.
Exactly how something like that is implemented isn't our problem to work out, we can only speculate. However, if there is a big enough call for more balanced PvP matchmaking at end-game Cryptic will do something, and something is generally better than nothing.
Here are my arguments why you wouldn't want low GS players in your team;
- They totally lack of experience, they will fight outside of caps for the entire match, or end up fightning 3v1 or 4v1 at one cap (thank to trolling TRs)
- If you die next to them they surely won't resurrect you. '' Where's the **** '' f key '' ?!
- They are lead by emotional responses; they would rather focus on the player they see at first sight rather than focusing on a healer or more squishy chars.
-Therefore, if you are well geared, prepare to also get 3v1 or 4v1 since your four teammates are already trying to kill a GWF or TR in your home cap
- It will make the game rapidly unbalanced, thus boring and unappealing. Where's the fun to PvP with non-experienced players all the
time when you have been PvPing since the beta? It's like getting back in the first day of beta. It gives a fade and boring match, turning PvP into a grind feeling.
- It's not fun to play against low GS players for the same measures, there's no balance, it's boring to kill someone in one rotation.
- They will open their mouth and tell you're a **** if you DARE to stay at the campfire after being 4v1 four times in a row because your teammates are busy dying in two shots or as I previously said, being busy with a TR or a GWF in your home cap.
- As an experienced PvP player, If you have a low GS, I'm sorry but you shouldn't handicap the whole team and lead it prematurely to a lose. Carrying your team for an entire match and then lose isn't very gratifying for your brain.
- It only takes a few weeks to get an average 11-12K GS, make some efforts and don't ruin the experience of others players who make daily efforts to grind their gears in order to be competitive.
- I noticed my PvP experience has been declining for a few months now, the matchmaking provides no balance at all, NONE. Most games lead to one sided matches, you either destroy your opponent or vice-versa, I can't remember the last time I've played a long, hard and balanced match.
- Personal observation for the last point; the Turks and followed by the French in second places are probably the worst players in PvP. I respect the Turks for trying with 9K GS but the Frenchs are well known for their role playing, you can easily see PvP isn't their strength.
Would you try and go an epic instance with no gear?
You're being lazy and expecting people to carry you. That's not how Life works, and it's not how MMOs work. If you cannot contribute to a group (PvP or PvE) than expect people to get mad at you. It's a very inconsiderate thing to do.
Agreed. I que solo on my 17k gs gwf and regularly get put with people @7k, and so little hp I wouldnt even need to use an encounter to kill them. As someone else on the forums said its almost like were being use to raid the avg gs of a team bc usually those sort of teams have no one higher than 12 at the most.
May the RNG Gods smile on you today!
Adorable Temptress - 23.4k Temptation SW
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
"I'm gonna explode"
"learn some respect"
"they are selfish"
"your being lazy"
Seriously, I'm dying of laughter here.
*ANNOUNCEMENT* Everyone please pay attention: Your sole purpose in playing this game is to provide these players with the absolute best PVP experience they can have. If your Q'ing for PVP for anything other than this purpose then your doing it wrong. You must do as they say, play how they say, and above all, show fealty to them at all times. Because if you do anything else, they may explode and check your Gear Score and you don't want that to happen do you? No you don't, that's bad
So as long as your in the gear that they approve of and are doing the things that they approve of all will be well they will not explode and your Gear Score will not be checked.
Thank you for your attention.
*END OF ANNOUNCEMENT*
Well, at least they didn't do something incredibly stupid to make ultra competitive people even MORE competitive, like introduce a leaderboard or something....
-_-
"GTFO NUB, U COST ME 23RD PLAEC ON TEH LEADREBORAD"
Here are my arguments why you wouldn't want low GS players in your team;
- They totally lack of experience, they will fight outside of caps for the entire match, or end up fightning 3v1 or 4v1 at one cap (thank to trolling TRs)
Pretty clever instance there. Let me recap in a formula: Low GS player can't play->because they have not enough experience->because low GS players can't play->because they have not enough experience (ad infinitum)
GS DOES NOT make the player, experience wise. Gear makes him more relevant in a match, DPS wise. But a stun/interrupt/root is still a stun/interrupt/root, and tactically speaking has always the same value in assisting your TEAM.
You can pvp and you should pvp, the DEVS should have a gs based matchmaking system.
However, if you are 8k gs it means you are a lazy *******, too lazy to buy blues at the AH, too lazy to run dungeons (even t1 will give you more than 8k) too lazy to spend 5 bucks in zen to buy yourself something, and you are being a leech because 8k can't kill anything, can't cap anything, can't do anything but to be a parasite. So your 8k in todays pvp world, is actually a burden, you can't even be used as a meat shield because you are probably too squishy.
I am tired of pugging people like you, when I try hard to cap and stay alive and score, you are probably running around completely oblivious waiting to get ganked. It is better to do a 4x5 with dignity than having a 5th like you, a parasite. One of my alts got to 60 couple days ago he is 8k in greens bro so you are WRONG.
If you want to pvp then put some effort in it, it is not rocket science.
Comments
10k, 10k, 9k, 11k, me 16.5k VS 10k, 10k, 15k, 16.8k, 16.9k.
Number wise it might not seem all that bad if it averages out but it really is when one team has 3 high gs ppl and the other has one.
It means that they will clear the whole team but the one guy so fast he will constantly be tanking 4+ and feel like hes the only person doing anything. Which, if he is a rager, will make him outcry against his lowbies. I'm not condoning it(the rage), but I definitely understand his frustration. Especially with the addition of the leaderboards, almost all pug losses for skilled players at high GS come from situations like this.
The matchmaking was poorly thought out and the leaderboards should not have been added until matchmaking is fair and consistent.
It's easy, once comprehended.
If you can not accept that, you are thrown together with people who do not share your "view of the world" it is not their fault, but more likely yours.
The devs gave you the option to queue with a 5 man team. By your refusal to use that tool, you just hurt yourself.
There are people out there, and you will not like to hear that, that do PvP just for fun. They do not care about wín or loss, GS or tactics. They might not intend to troll you, but you might most certainly feel that way.
It's different opinions.
Use the option to form a party with like minded players. It is there. It's not hard. It can be done.
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Even if the gear is entirely composed of green lvl 60's with let's assume rank 5 gems in it. 10k GS is easy to achieve. The boons from sharandar/dread ring/icewind dale boost anybody's GS by at least ~1500 points, too. The first hree ones are easy to obtain, in my opinion (ok the sharandar one is a bit annoying, though). Get the two free and very easy to obtain artifacts and at least refine them up to a blue rank. Mounts do not matter that much anymore due to the new mounting - up system.
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Getting the pvp artifact instead of a T1 set, seems illogical to me since one can get the artifact way easier if there is a certain amount of tenacity on ones toon(s) and the set boni are great for starters. T1 set parts cost only 8-30k AD each.
P.S. there are cheap lvl 55 blue pants and shirts for sale on the AH ususally.
Look. Nobody is asking for 'well equipped teams'. People are suggesting that going into L60 PvP essentially butt naked is less than optimal even for PuGs. And should generally be discouraged. But you carry on missing the point if it makes you feel superior.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
If you consider having more than 8K GS "well equipped" you should avoid PvP.
To summarize: they are there for the AD from the dailies. The whole "play as a team" and competitive play is beyond their selfish reason for being there so they AFK at the camp the whole match so they can get their fun completed sooner. The Lord Protector and Rhix PvP quests should be changed to require wins.
There is no option to remove your type from my matches. Trust me I would check that box in a heart beat if it were.
If there isn't already a starter pool for ELO ranking, there should be. An 8k gs player should never drop into his/ her first match against someone with a 5:1 w/l ratio or higher who almost doubles their gs. I have one shot 3 players since the mod launched, it has been months since I was able to do that. If that was my introduction to PvP in this game I would've probably found another game. For the sake of the new players and the sanity of the well equipped, there should be a wading pool for new lvl 60 pvp.
I could not more vehemently state my tolerance of, and joy playing along side, low gs players who want to win. So that part of a counter-point to anything I say, is invalid from the start. What the "qq anti-leet peeveepee" people don't want to address is that most of the problem with really low gs people is that they also usually dont want to win. A low gs indicates a lack of desire in improving ones character or play. That indication is not ALWAYS absolutely correct but it is usually a good clue.
Ever play hoops (a pickup game of basketball at the court in the local public park)? You realize if you show up and get into a game and just throw the ball all over the place like its dodge ball or everyone stands out of bounds off to the side the whole match, and generally dont know how to play the game and dont care, the guys on your team are going to scream at you and odds of getting into a fist fight are more than slim. Justifiably. It is the same thing here. It is like "oh my god why did you even show up??". I can't even imagine standing at courtside and calling the players elitists for being mad when someone shows up and doesnt even care about winning.
Its the same thing here.
Jugger Conq GF
....
Failing this if you are experienced, overgeared and have a high level of skill then single out the other player on the opposing team and either attempt to kill them yourself or kite them around and keep them away from stomping all over your lowbie team members.
Group compositions like this aren't the norm, but I do see how the matchmaking system works.
This problem isn't unique to Neverwinter, it happens in every MMO due to the infinite gearflation. If it was addressed somehow through matchmaking PvP would be enjoyable again. Right now it's just something to suffer through every day for free astral diamonds.
I'd rather wait 30 minutes for a fun PvP match then get in within 2 minutes and it be a laughable situation where 2 people from a premade insta-gib anyone trying to leave the campfire area as the rest of their team falls asleep from boredom elsewhere on the map.
A premade group of....1? Or are we just using premade as shorthand for "experienced overgeared player", now?
Also, overdrive, your hoops analogy only works if you take as read that "low GS == troll/campfire_dude_here_for_the_daily", whereas it could just be someone new. It'd work better if it was a case of a short dude who can't jump well turning up all enthusiastic to play, only to be told to "go buy some height and jumpy legs on the AH, nub".
Gearscore is not a good metric for player skill, nor is it a good metric for player enthusiasm. I've seen plenty of 15k peeps sitting out in the campfire.
Problem is, if after 29 minutes of waiting you need to take a leak, or are in a shop, or answering the door, or ... and the queue pops in that time, you are back at the start.
'cause you are not kept in the line, but are thrown out of the queue.
That's true, but it's also true that a team of people with 10k GearScore don't stand a chance against a team of people with the best stuff the game has to offer, unless those people are utterly terrible and half are afk'ing.
GearScore needs to be a part of the match-making equation. Even though this has an action combat system it is foremost an RPG, which means progression trumps player skill to a fairly high degree. If someone can killl you in one rotation, and you must hit them at least 15 times to inflict a kill, you have to be 5X better than the other person to win. The skill cap in this game is not high enough to make that likely.
Very true, and kind of annoying, but it beats having matches that aren't fun unless you're a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Queue for PvP:
Domination (Any - Fastest)
Domination (Starter to T1) Lowest Rewards
Domination (T1 to T2) Medium Rewards
Domination (Munchkin) Highest rewards
I love PvP in this game, it's fun. It's just pretty broken with a fresh character right now. Most all MMO's across history have ignored the problem, so I'd be shocked if PW did anything about it.
It's just going to get worse over time as more and more gear, artifacts, and boons are added. I think gearflation is the #1 reason MMO's start retaining less and less players over time. If a game has been out awhile hitting level cap means things like battlegrounds, etc., are no longer things you can do without weeks of grinding ahead of you.
The analogy works for the type of players whos gs I actually look at: fail players with zero desire to win or to improve. Someone keeps doing the wrong things after being politely asked to do the right things and I check their gs. Otherwise it is a non issue. Die a lot? So what. In an average pug you can just go right back to what you were doing when you died and it wont make that much difference. As long as you were doing the right thing. Like I said many times a good pug isnt necessarily high-gs and leading the scoreboard at the end. Winning the match and having your whole low gs team at the bottom of the scoreboard is especially rewarding and one of the reasons why I am addicted to pugging.
The "low gs, can't play?" is a question based on a false premise. It is an assumption based on what trolls in pvp say. Not the most credible sources of a basis from which to ask a hot-topic question.
Jugger Conq GF
....
How do you prevent player that is doing fine in the "highest rewards level" from trolling in the "lowest rewards level"?
Not my problem to solve, but I'd guess restrictions on the queuing. You can't change gear while queue'd or in a match, and you can't queue for tiers you don't quality for. They already do this to some extent with Dungeon queuing, you can't queue dungeons you don't meet the requirement for.
Think about this game another year from now. You're gonna have seasoned characters running around with 100k+ HP and fresh level 60's will still have 2Xk HP. Probably with boons to literally breath fire and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on people from the dragon expansion.
If something like this isn't in place, it's just shutting out new players from doing PvP at all, and increasing the grind more and more over time to get them to the point that they can have fun matches. If PvP already isn't fun now for a fresh char, and the game is this young, it's really gonna be bad later.
Valid point here being that even without restrictions it'd be superior to what we got today. There are a handful of buttheads in any game, but most people want a fun back and forth PvP match, or to dominate against people that have no excuse for losing.
As you might be referring to "difficulty classes" I suggest, to make these classes mean something, that you can buy your way up with AD (not glory) so you can change for , idk, 100k AD from league A to league B.
This would prevent trolls a bit, and League hoppers.
Otherwise I assume "this was a tough match for us. lets go and farm a few pugs before logging of" would be too common.
And this is certainly not in the interest of good players, who want to play PvP for a challenge.
I think conceptually the vast majority of PvP players could agree that they want a challenge in PvP, and tier matching at the "endgame" makes sense, since it's tiered while leveling, and gear differences at end-game can mean more than 10 levels do in the lower tiers. Right now a fresh ungeared level 60 is like getting stuck in the 50-59 brackets at level 25, in time, it will be like being stuck in the 50-59 bracket at level 10.
Exactly how something like that is implemented isn't our problem to work out, we can only speculate. However, if there is a big enough call for more balanced PvP matchmaking at end-game Cryptic will do something, and something is generally better than nothing.
- They totally lack of experience, they will fight outside of caps for the entire match, or end up fightning 3v1 or 4v1 at one cap (thank to trolling TRs)
- If you die next to them they surely won't resurrect you. '' Where's the **** '' f key '' ?!
- They are lead by emotional responses; they would rather focus on the player they see at first sight rather than focusing on a healer or more squishy chars.
-Therefore, if you are well geared, prepare to also get 3v1 or 4v1 since your four teammates are already trying to kill a GWF or TR in your home cap
- It will make the game rapidly unbalanced, thus boring and unappealing. Where's the fun to PvP with non-experienced players all the
time when you have been PvPing since the beta? It's like getting back in the first day of beta. It gives a fade and boring match, turning PvP into a grind feeling.
- It's not fun to play against low GS players for the same measures, there's no balance, it's boring to kill someone in one rotation.
- They will open their mouth and tell you're a **** if you DARE to stay at the campfire after being 4v1 four times in a row because your teammates are busy dying in two shots or as I previously said, being busy with a TR or a GWF in your home cap.
- As an experienced PvP player, If you have a low GS, I'm sorry but you shouldn't handicap the whole team and lead it prematurely to a lose. Carrying your team for an entire match and then lose isn't very gratifying for your brain.
- It only takes a few weeks to get an average 11-12K GS, make some efforts and don't ruin the experience of others players who make daily efforts to grind their gears in order to be competitive.
- I noticed my PvP experience has been declining for a few months now, the matchmaking provides no balance at all, NONE. Most games lead to one sided matches, you either destroy your opponent or vice-versa, I can't remember the last time I've played a long, hard and balanced match.
- Personal observation for the last point; the Turks and followed by the French in second places are probably the worst players in PvP. I respect the Turks for trying with 9K GS but the Frenchs are well known for their role playing, you can easily see PvP isn't their strength.
Agreed. I que solo on my 17k gs gwf and regularly get put with people @7k, and so little hp I wouldnt even need to use an encounter to kill them. As someone else on the forums said its almost like were being use to raid the avg gs of a team bc usually those sort of teams have no one higher than 12 at the most.
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
"learn some respect"
"they are selfish"
"your being lazy"
Seriously, I'm dying of laughter here.
*ANNOUNCEMENT* Everyone please pay attention: Your sole purpose in playing this game is to provide these players with the absolute best PVP experience they can have. If your Q'ing for PVP for anything other than this purpose then your doing it wrong. You must do as they say, play how they say, and above all, show fealty to them at all times. Because if you do anything else, they may explode and check your Gear Score and you don't want that to happen do you? No you don't, that's bad
So as long as your in the gear that they approve of and are doing the things that they approve of all will be well they will not explode and your Gear Score will not be checked.
Thank you for your attention.
*END OF ANNOUNCEMENT*
Branch Lead
-_-
"GTFO NUB, U COST ME 23RD PLAEC ON TEH LEADREBORAD"
Pretty clever instance there. Let me recap in a formula:
Low GS player can't play->because they have not enough experience->because low GS players can't play->because they have not enough experience (ad infinitum)
GS DOES NOT make the player, experience wise. Gear makes him more relevant in a match, DPS wise. But a stun/interrupt/root is still a stun/interrupt/root, and tactically speaking has always the same value in assisting your TEAM.
However, if you are 8k gs it means you are a lazy *******, too lazy to buy blues at the AH, too lazy to run dungeons (even t1 will give you more than 8k) too lazy to spend 5 bucks in zen to buy yourself something, and you are being a leech because 8k can't kill anything, can't cap anything, can't do anything but to be a parasite. So your 8k in todays pvp world, is actually a burden, you can't even be used as a meat shield because you are probably too squishy.
I am tired of pugging people like you, when I try hard to cap and stay alive and score, you are probably running around completely oblivious waiting to get ganked. It is better to do a 4x5 with dignity than having a 5th like you, a parasite. One of my alts got to 60 couple days ago he is 8k in greens bro so you are WRONG.
If you want to pvp then put some effort in it, it is not rocket science.