If I queue up for a pug dungeon, I know I'm going to end up with multiple TRs and HRs called xxMARSTERSASSINxx and Drizzzt2345, who will be wearing greens and maybe one or two blues, and that is absolutely fine. I am not going to blame THEM for "having crappy gear and being largely unwanted PvE classes" just because I entered with wildly unrealistic expectations. I will instead moderate my expectations accordingly.
Of course, SOMETIMES, there will be some 18k GS monster of a GWF in the team and everything will go swimmingly. It can go either way.
If I don't want to play hilarious luck of the draw teampick mode, I'll put together a party from legit.
EXACTLY THE SAME RATIONALE CAN BE APPLIED TO PVP (except for some reason the threshold for angry entitlement complex seems to be set lower there).
Don't want to see those people ever? Don't PvP.
Don't want to see those people on your team? Form a premade.
If you're going to waffle on about how much it's a TEAM game about TEAMWORK and playing as a TEAM, then it kinda stands to reason that forming a team beforehand is not a bad idea.
Or, if you insist on pugging it, you could be like many of the posters in this thread, and give advice to your undergeared teammates. Advice, help, and suggestions are always much more warmly received than "14K GS OR GTFO".
Unless you have cast-iron evidence that people are deliberately trolling you specifically, by queueing up in <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear just to spoil YOUR game, then it makes more sense to point the finger at you for being so ludicrously elitist. If you want people to SHOW YOU SOME RESPECT by turning up in auction house blues and R5s at minimum, then why not actually EARN that respect first?
And I say you should. As long as you're honest and willing to learn. How else are you getting the required experience to go do T2 dungeons? If you have the requirements for a T1 dungeon, I say go for it. Learn. Improve. But be honest and mention you're not very experienced yet. If you're in a PuG that speaks English (or any other language you can all understand) people usually won't mind and even give you advise on how to deal with the next part of the dungeon. That's how I learned.
You do know the GS requirements for T2 is ~8k. I would not go there with 8k and I would not form a group with 8k ppl. I never did exclude ppl from T1 runs, never asked for T2 gear for T2 dungeons, but I will not run DK with 8k mates.
Actually for me as long as you got at least 8k gs, you wont be flamed by me. 8k, is the lowest you can get with full greenies. I have seen some 3k trolls carried by his 2 guild members into pvp and are one-shotted and blamed me for not healing him. His other 2 guild mates lie me for doing nothing!! What can i do? I got a mouth, they got 3, and the problem is the cleric is killing more than all those dps class!!! (9k GWF, 8k HR and that 3k cw)
What i did in that match was, i smiled behind the screen, healing another 9k gs but extremely well-skilled cw while letting those 3 trolls die without any heals from me. Then both of us wipe all enemies together the moment after their deaths. However, our team had lost because of these daily AD trolls. That particular guild is blacklisted and will be killed or ignored if i teamed with them again.
Is this what you want? Protecting those who entered pvp without proper gearing and are unwilling to learn and listen to advices?? As long as you got a good attitude, i welcomed you even you are 6k gs, or else don't ruin the team!! You may just want to complete your dailies, but the other 4 want to win the game.
A lot of these posts are directed at the "what if?" of these matches being a players first few forays into PvP. I have no problem with a brand new player who doesn't know any better and is willing to learn. I do however have a problem with an 8-10k gs player who will troll away at the higher gs players for not being able to do much in some scenarios. If we are facing a geared team, and you show no interest in listening to basic strategy, we are going to lose and my deaths will far outweigh my kills.
However, with some simple strategy of contesting nodes, "dying to win" as it were, and being able to kite people off something we own, the win is possible. Our team, 12 kills. Their team, 134 kills. We won. 2 people from that team are still in my guild.
I have more of an issue with 13k gs players who stack on home point to kill a perma after repeated requests to spread to the other points and allow me to stalemate the perma. If you have 4 people on home point trying to kill a massive GWF or perma, you are going to lose. Every time.
I get angry, if the 5-9k GS DC does not heal and the HR, TR or CW stay far away/ in stealth,
DC's has to deal with heal depression and being the primary target of the enemy team (if the team is smart). At less than 9k GS he/she will drop like a fly. They are beyond useless at that level. HRs and CWs are ranged shooters and generally avoid melee (aka prone) range of GWFs on nodes.
No, they need to stay out and do some dungeon delves and dailies to build up their gear. I kill so many of these...people...., or get teamed with them, it is ridiculous. The only benefit to them is I reached my PvP Domination kill goal in just a couple days because of them. Thanks?
Excellent example of how the sword can swing both ways. It's just too bad that people prefer to judge their team by GS before they even left the campfire. Guess it's easier than communicating... I'll be the last to deny there are a lot of trolls out there. But I prefer to take people's willingness to learn for granted. Until proven otherwise, I ddn't care if you're a newbie or a veteran. I PvP for fun. Not for some silly ranking on some stupid board. Trying is mandatory, losing an option. Having fun is a choice, regardless of the outcome of the match.
At least two of us have specifically stated that we don't check GS at the start of a match. Guess it's easier to make sweeping generalisations though.
I can only speak for myself, but this has nothing to do with the leaderboard. I could care less about that badly-thought-out mess of irrelevant statistics. And I will never trouble the upper reaches of it as I just don't play enough matches. For me it's all about the fun and the challenge.
In 90% of cases an 8k GS team member is no more use than a blank space against decently geared opposition. That means that defeat is virtually assured from the start. It also means that I will spend a lot of time dying to superior numbers when they melt halfway through an opponents first rotation. This, for me at least, is not much fun. I should point out that according to party chat it's not much fun for the guy with the low GS either.
I have little time to play. I prefer that the few games I fit in are as enjoyable as possible. This is why people who have not even put the minimum effort into their toon irritate me. Ranking is irrelevant.
To play devils advocate here, the matchmaking system has been making really one sided games GS wise. For example, puts one high GS person with 4 low ones in order to balance out the team. I often have to play very frustrating matches like this one:
10k, 10k, 9k, 11k, me 16.5k VS 10k, 10k, 15k, 16.8k, 16.9k.
Number wise it might not seem all that bad if it averages out but it really is when one team has 3 high gs ppl and the other has one.
It means that they will clear the whole team but the one guy so fast he will constantly be tanking 4+ and feel like hes the only person doing anything. Which, if he is a rager, will make him outcry against his lowbies. I'm not condoning it(the rage), but I definitely understand his frustration. Especially with the addition of the leaderboards, almost all pug losses for skilled players at high GS come from situations like this.
The matchmaking was poorly thought out and the leaderboards should not have been added until matchmaking is fair and consistent.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
if you expect a well equipped team, just save yourself the trouble and do not PuG.
It's easy, once comprehended.
If you can not accept that, you are thrown together with people who do not share your "view of the world" it is not their fault, but more likely yours.
The devs gave you the option to queue with a 5 man team. By your refusal to use that tool, you just hurt yourself.
There are people out there, and you will not like to hear that, that do PvP just for fun. They do not care about wín or loss, GS or tactics. They might not intend to troll you, but you might most certainly feel that way.
It's different opinions.
Use the option to form a party with like minded players. It is there. It's not hard. It can be done.
Nowadays getting a GS of let's say 10k flat, takes 2 days with zero to no effort. I agree to an extent, that GS does not indicate actual player skill. But what GS does is, it shows other gamers that you have put at least some thought and effort into gearing up your toon(s). It does not have to be rank 10/perfect. I used rank 5-6 from lvl 10-59 then switched to rank 7's with the help of a friend since i could not afford it myself.
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Even if the gear is entirely composed of green lvl 60's with let's assume rank 5 gems in it. 10k GS is easy to achieve. The boons from sharandar/dread ring/icewind dale boost anybody's GS by at least ~1500 points, too. The first hree ones are easy to obtain, in my opinion (ok the sharandar one is a bit annoying, though). Get the two free and very easy to obtain artifacts and at least refine them up to a blue rank. Mounts do not matter that much anymore due to the new mounting - up system.
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Getting the pvp artifact instead of a T1 set, seems illogical to me since one can get the artifact way easier if there is a certain amount of tenacity on ones toon(s) and the set boni are great for starters. T1 set parts cost only 8-30k AD each.
P.S. there are cheap lvl 55 blue pants and shirts for sale on the AH ususally.
if you expect a well equipped team, just save yourself the trouble and do not PuG.
It's easy, once comprehended.
If you can not accept that, you are thrown together with people who do not share your "view of the world" it is not their fault, but more likely yours.
The devs gave you the option to queue with a 5 man team. By your refusal to use that tool, you just hurt yourself.
There are people out there, and you will not like to hear that, that do PvP just for fun. They do not care about wín or loss, GS or tactics. They might not intend to troll you, but you might most certainly feel that way.
It's different opinions.
Use the option to form a party with like minded players. It is there. It's not hard. It can be done.
*sigh*
Look. Nobody is asking for 'well equipped teams'. People are suggesting that going into L60 PvP essentially butt naked is less than optimal even for PuGs. And should generally be discouraged. But you carry on missing the point if it makes you feel superior.
They do not care about wín or loss, GS or tactics.
To summarize: they are there for the AD from the dailies. The whole "play as a team" and competitive play is beyond their selfish reason for being there so they AFK at the camp the whole match so they can get their fun completed sooner. The Lord Protector and Rhix PvP quests should be changed to require wins.
The flip side is also the argument we've been listening to for months. I rarely go premade because the game is over so fast 9 times out of 10 there is no enjoyment. The outcry against premades is all we've heard for way too long. We get to point 2 and everyone sees the same guild tag, they campfire it out after that.
If there isn't already a starter pool for ELO ranking, there should be. An 8k gs player should never drop into his/ her first match against someone with a 5:1 w/l ratio or higher who almost doubles their gs. I have one shot 3 players since the mod launched, it has been months since I was able to do that. If that was my introduction to PvP in this game I would've probably found another game. For the sake of the new players and the sanity of the well equipped, there should be a wading pool for new lvl 60 pvp.
My lashing blade crits for around 15k soooo whenever you wanna go against me in PVP hmu. In fact with crits duelist flurry can get to 9k. I remeber spending a match protecting an 8k GWF from getting killed. Not fun but we won
"There should be" many things. Balance between classes, all should hail my name in devotion, a perfect game, but there is not at the moment.
If someone can not cope with the RNG that puts him together with strangers don't use the queue but form a pre-made according to your preference.
If you consider everyone not in all blues or purples a clueless person it shows your mindset and your acceptance of others.
I could not more vehemently state my tolerance of, and joy playing along side, low gs players who want to win. So that part of a counter-point to anything I say, is invalid from the start. What the "qq anti-leet peeveepee" people don't want to address is that most of the problem with really low gs people is that they also usually dont want to win. A low gs indicates a lack of desire in improving ones character or play. That indication is not ALWAYS absolutely correct but it is usually a good clue.
Ever play hoops (a pickup game of basketball at the court in the local public park)? You realize if you show up and get into a game and just throw the ball all over the place like its dodge ball or everyone stands out of bounds off to the side the whole match, and generally dont know how to play the game and dont care, the guys on your team are going to scream at you and odds of getting into a fist fight are more than slim. Justifiably. It is the same thing here. It is like "oh my god why did you even show up??". I can't even imagine standing at courtside and calling the players elitists for being mad when someone shows up and doesnt even care about winning.
The trend seems to be putting at least 1 experienced overgeared player together with lowbies. I don't know if the intention is to encourage them to teach the lowbies, provide more variety of challenges or just to balance out the que times? When this happens, a good strategy is to target them. I have seen this happen a few times and in those cases lead to winning the matches. So having lowbies in your group isn't so much a bad thing. The way I look at it is you have to work with what you've got. If you rally your lowbies together, collectively they can overcome the toughest of challenges. Of course this is assuming the lowbies can work together to chain CC or are using the correct spells. However, chances are if you have lowbies on your team then the other team will have lowbies also.
Failing this if you are experienced, overgeared and have a high level of skill then single out the other player on the opposing team and either attempt to kill them yourself or kite them around and keep them away from stomping all over your lowbie team members.
Group compositions like this aren't the norm, but I do see how the matchmaking system works.
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maroucatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
They need to factor GearScore into the matchmaking. As someone who started playing again after a hiatus of several months, it's not fun to go into a match with 10.5k GS and fight a premade of toons with 18k+ GS.
This problem isn't unique to Neverwinter, it happens in every MMO due to the infinite gearflation. If it was addressed somehow through matchmaking PvP would be enjoyable again. Right now it's just something to suffer through every day for free astral diamonds.
I'd rather wait 30 minutes for a fun PvP match then get in within 2 minutes and it be a laughable situation where 2 people from a premade insta-gib anyone trying to leave the campfire area as the rest of their team falls asleep from boredom elsewhere on the map.
...uh. Wait: xlsdoc, how can 1 person be a premade?
A premade group of....1? Or are we just using premade as shorthand for "experienced overgeared player", now?
Also, overdrive, your hoops analogy only works if you take as read that "low GS == troll/campfire_dude_here_for_the_daily", whereas it could just be someone new. It'd work better if it was a case of a short dude who can't jump well turning up all enthusiastic to play, only to be told to "go buy some height and jumpy legs on the AH, nub".
Gearscore is not a good metric for player skill, nor is it a good metric for player enthusiasm. I've seen plenty of 15k peeps sitting out in the campfire.
I'd rather wait 30 minutes for a fun PvP match then get in within 2 minutes and it be a laughable situation where 2 people from a premade insta-gib anyone trying to leave the campfire area as the rest of their team falls asleep from boredom elsewhere on the map.
Problem is, if after 29 minutes of waiting you need to take a leak, or are in a shop, or answering the door, or ... and the queue pops in that time, you are back at the start.
'cause you are not kept in the line, but are thrown out of the queue.
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maroucatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Gearscore is not a good metric for player skill, nor is it a good metric for player enthusiasm. I've seen plenty of 15k peeps sitting out in the campfire.
That's true, but it's also true that a team of people with 10k GearScore don't stand a chance against a team of people with the best stuff the game has to offer, unless those people are utterly terrible and half are afk'ing.
GearScore needs to be a part of the match-making equation. Even though this has an action combat system it is foremost an RPG, which means progression trumps player skill to a fairly high degree. If someone can killl you in one rotation, and you must hit them at least 15 times to inflict a kill, you have to be 5X better than the other person to win. The skill cap in this game is not high enough to make that likely.
Problem is, if after 29 minutes of waiting you need to take a leak, or are in a shop, or answering the door, or ... and the queue pops in that time, you are back at the start.
'cause you are not kept in the line, but are thrown out of the queue.
Very true, and kind of annoying, but it beats having matches that aren't fun unless you're a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
...uh. Wait: xlsdoc, how can 1 person be a premade?
A premade group of....1? Or are we just using premade as shorthand for "experienced overgeared player", now?
Yes I was meaning an experienced overgeared player. I probably should use the correct description.
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maroucatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
Anyways, I'd love to see something like this at 60:
Queue for PvP:
Domination (Any - Fastest)
Domination (Starter to T1) Lowest Rewards
Domination (T1 to T2) Medium Rewards
Domination (Munchkin) Highest rewards
I love PvP in this game, it's fun. It's just pretty broken with a fresh character right now. Most all MMO's across history have ignored the problem, so I'd be shocked if PW did anything about it.
It's just going to get worse over time as more and more gear, artifacts, and boons are added. I think gearflation is the #1 reason MMO's start retaining less and less players over time. If a game has been out awhile hitting level cap means things like battlegrounds, etc., are no longer things you can do without weeks of grinding ahead of you.
...uh. Wait: xlsdoc, how can 1 person be a premade?
A premade group of....1? Or are we just using premade as shorthand for "experienced overgeared player", now?
Also, overdrive, your hoops analogy only works if you take as read that "low GS == troll/campfire_dude_here_for_the_daily", whereas it could just be someone new. It'd work better if it was a case of a short dude who can't jump well turning up all enthusiastic to play, only to be told to "go buy some height and jumpy legs on the AH, nub".
Gearscore is not a good metric for player skill, nor is it a good metric for player enthusiasm. I've seen plenty of 15k peeps sitting out in the campfire.
The analogy works for the type of players whos gs I actually look at: fail players with zero desire to win or to improve. Someone keeps doing the wrong things after being politely asked to do the right things and I check their gs. Otherwise it is a non issue. Die a lot? So what. In an average pug you can just go right back to what you were doing when you died and it wont make that much difference. As long as you were doing the right thing. Like I said many times a good pug isnt necessarily high-gs and leading the scoreboard at the end. Winning the match and having your whole low gs team at the bottom of the scoreboard is especially rewarding and one of the reasons why I am addicted to pugging.
The "low gs, can't play?" is a question based on a false premise. It is an assumption based on what trolls in pvp say. Not the most credible sources of a basis from which to ask a hot-topic question.
Anyways, I'd love to see something like this at 60:
Queue for PvP:
Domination (Any - Fastest)
Domination (Starter to T1) Lowest Rewards
Domination (T1 to T2) Medium Rewards
Domination (Munchkin) Highest rewards
And how do you prevent someone most suited for the "lowest rewards level" to queue for the "highest reards level" and try to leech this highest reward?
How do you prevent player that is doing fine in the "highest rewards level" from trolling in the "lowest rewards level"?
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maroucatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And how do you prevent someone most suited for the "lowest rewards level" to queue for the "highest reards level" and try to leech this highest reward?
How do you prevent player that is doing fine in the "highest rewards level" from trolling in the "lowest rewards level"?
Not my problem to solve, but I'd guess restrictions on the queuing. You can't change gear while queue'd or in a match, and you can't queue for tiers you don't quality for. They already do this to some extent with Dungeon queuing, you can't queue dungeons you don't meet the requirement for.
Think about this game another year from now. You're gonna have seasoned characters running around with 100k+ HP and fresh level 60's will still have 2Xk HP. Probably with boons to literally breath fire and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on people from the dragon expansion.
If something like this isn't in place, it's just shutting out new players from doing PvP at all, and increasing the grind more and more over time to get them to the point that they can have fun matches. If PvP already isn't fun now for a fresh char, and the game is this young, it's really gonna be bad later.
The obvious answer is of course: you don't. You make rewards for every category the same. The only reason you'd select a certain category would be to determine your desired level of fun. Queue too high or too low and you'll get/will be roflstomping.
Valid point here being that even without restrictions it'd be superior to what we got today. There are a handful of buttheads in any game, but most people want a fun back and forth PvP match, or to dominate against people that have no excuse for losing.
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Of course, SOMETIMES, there will be some 18k GS monster of a GWF in the team and everything will go swimmingly. It can go either way.
If I don't want to play hilarious luck of the draw teampick mode, I'll put together a party from legit.
EXACTLY THE SAME RATIONALE CAN BE APPLIED TO PVP (except for some reason the threshold for angry entitlement complex seems to be set lower there).
Don't want to see those people ever? Don't PvP.
Don't want to see those people on your team? Form a premade.
If you're going to waffle on about how much it's a TEAM game about TEAMWORK and playing as a TEAM, then it kinda stands to reason that forming a team beforehand is not a bad idea.
Or, if you insist on pugging it, you could be like many of the posters in this thread, and give advice to your undergeared teammates. Advice, help, and suggestions are always much more warmly received than "14K GS OR GTFO".
Unless you have cast-iron evidence that people are deliberately trolling you specifically, by queueing up in <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear just to spoil YOUR game, then it makes more sense to point the finger at you for being so ludicrously elitist. If you want people to SHOW YOU SOME RESPECT by turning up in auction house blues and R5s at minimum, then why not actually EARN that respect first?
You do know the GS requirements for T2 is ~8k. I would not go there with 8k and I would not form a group with 8k ppl. I never did exclude ppl from T1 runs, never asked for T2 gear for T2 dungeons, but I will not run DK with 8k mates.
What i did in that match was, i smiled behind the screen, healing another 9k gs but extremely well-skilled cw while letting those 3 trolls die without any heals from me. Then both of us wipe all enemies together the moment after their deaths. However, our team had lost because of these daily AD trolls. That particular guild is blacklisted and will be killed or ignored if i teamed with them again.
Is this what you want? Protecting those who entered pvp without proper gearing and are unwilling to learn and listen to advices?? As long as you got a good attitude, i welcomed you even you are 6k gs, or else don't ruin the team!! You may just want to complete your dailies, but the other 4 want to win the game.
However, with some simple strategy of contesting nodes, "dying to win" as it were, and being able to kite people off something we own, the win is possible. Our team, 12 kills. Their team, 134 kills. We won. 2 people from that team are still in my guild.
I have more of an issue with 13k gs players who stack on home point to kill a perma after repeated requests to spread to the other points and allow me to stalemate the perma. If you have 4 people on home point trying to kill a massive GWF or perma, you are going to lose. Every time.
There are people on the first page with one win and three loses. The leaderboard means nothing.
DC's has to deal with heal depression and being the primary target of the enemy team (if the team is smart). At less than 9k GS he/she will drop like a fly. They are beyond useless at that level. HRs and CWs are ranged shooters and generally avoid melee (aka prone) range of GWFs on nodes.
No, they need to stay out and do some dungeon delves and dailies to build up their gear. I kill so many of these...people...., or get teamed with them, it is ridiculous. The only benefit to them is I reached my PvP Domination kill goal in just a couple days because of them. Thanks?
I can only speak for myself, but this has nothing to do with the leaderboard. I could care less about that badly-thought-out mess of irrelevant statistics. And I will never trouble the upper reaches of it as I just don't play enough matches. For me it's all about the fun and the challenge.
In 90% of cases an 8k GS team member is no more use than a blank space against decently geared opposition. That means that defeat is virtually assured from the start. It also means that I will spend a lot of time dying to superior numbers when they melt halfway through an opponents first rotation. This, for me at least, is not much fun. I should point out that according to party chat it's not much fun for the guy with the low GS either.
I have little time to play. I prefer that the few games I fit in are as enjoyable as possible. This is why people who have not even put the minimum effort into their toon irritate me. Ranking is irrelevant.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
10k, 10k, 9k, 11k, me 16.5k VS 10k, 10k, 15k, 16.8k, 16.9k.
Number wise it might not seem all that bad if it averages out but it really is when one team has 3 high gs ppl and the other has one.
It means that they will clear the whole team but the one guy so fast he will constantly be tanking 4+ and feel like hes the only person doing anything. Which, if he is a rager, will make him outcry against his lowbies. I'm not condoning it(the rage), but I definitely understand his frustration. Especially with the addition of the leaderboards, almost all pug losses for skilled players at high GS come from situations like this.
The matchmaking was poorly thought out and the leaderboards should not have been added until matchmaking is fair and consistent.
It's easy, once comprehended.
If you can not accept that, you are thrown together with people who do not share your "view of the world" it is not their fault, but more likely yours.
The devs gave you the option to queue with a 5 man team. By your refusal to use that tool, you just hurt yourself.
There are people out there, and you will not like to hear that, that do PvP just for fun. They do not care about wín or loss, GS or tactics. They might not intend to troll you, but you might most certainly feel that way.
It's different opinions.
Use the option to form a party with like minded players. It is there. It's not hard. It can be done.
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Even if the gear is entirely composed of green lvl 60's with let's assume rank 5 gems in it. 10k GS is easy to achieve. The boons from sharandar/dread ring/icewind dale boost anybody's GS by at least ~1500 points, too. The first hree ones are easy to obtain, in my opinion (ok the sharandar one is a bit annoying, though). Get the two free and very easy to obtain artifacts and at least refine them up to a blue rank. Mounts do not matter that much anymore due to the new mounting - up system.
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Getting the pvp artifact instead of a T1 set, seems illogical to me since one can get the artifact way easier if there is a certain amount of tenacity on ones toon(s) and the set boni are great for starters. T1 set parts cost only 8-30k AD each.
P.S. there are cheap lvl 55 blue pants and shirts for sale on the AH ususally.
Look. Nobody is asking for 'well equipped teams'. People are suggesting that going into L60 PvP essentially butt naked is less than optimal even for PuGs. And should generally be discouraged. But you carry on missing the point if it makes you feel superior.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
If you consider having more than 8K GS "well equipped" you should avoid PvP.
To summarize: they are there for the AD from the dailies. The whole "play as a team" and competitive play is beyond their selfish reason for being there so they AFK at the camp the whole match so they can get their fun completed sooner. The Lord Protector and Rhix PvP quests should be changed to require wins.
There is no option to remove your type from my matches. Trust me I would check that box in a heart beat if it were.
If there isn't already a starter pool for ELO ranking, there should be. An 8k gs player should never drop into his/ her first match against someone with a 5:1 w/l ratio or higher who almost doubles their gs. I have one shot 3 players since the mod launched, it has been months since I was able to do that. If that was my introduction to PvP in this game I would've probably found another game. For the sake of the new players and the sanity of the well equipped, there should be a wading pool for new lvl 60 pvp.
I could not more vehemently state my tolerance of, and joy playing along side, low gs players who want to win. So that part of a counter-point to anything I say, is invalid from the start. What the "qq anti-leet peeveepee" people don't want to address is that most of the problem with really low gs people is that they also usually dont want to win. A low gs indicates a lack of desire in improving ones character or play. That indication is not ALWAYS absolutely correct but it is usually a good clue.
Ever play hoops (a pickup game of basketball at the court in the local public park)? You realize if you show up and get into a game and just throw the ball all over the place like its dodge ball or everyone stands out of bounds off to the side the whole match, and generally dont know how to play the game and dont care, the guys on your team are going to scream at you and odds of getting into a fist fight are more than slim. Justifiably. It is the same thing here. It is like "oh my god why did you even show up??". I can't even imagine standing at courtside and calling the players elitists for being mad when someone shows up and doesnt even care about winning.
Its the same thing here.
Jugger Conq GF
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Failing this if you are experienced, overgeared and have a high level of skill then single out the other player on the opposing team and either attempt to kill them yourself or kite them around and keep them away from stomping all over your lowbie team members.
Group compositions like this aren't the norm, but I do see how the matchmaking system works.
This problem isn't unique to Neverwinter, it happens in every MMO due to the infinite gearflation. If it was addressed somehow through matchmaking PvP would be enjoyable again. Right now it's just something to suffer through every day for free astral diamonds.
I'd rather wait 30 minutes for a fun PvP match then get in within 2 minutes and it be a laughable situation where 2 people from a premade insta-gib anyone trying to leave the campfire area as the rest of their team falls asleep from boredom elsewhere on the map.
A premade group of....1? Or are we just using premade as shorthand for "experienced overgeared player", now?
Also, overdrive, your hoops analogy only works if you take as read that "low GS == troll/campfire_dude_here_for_the_daily", whereas it could just be someone new. It'd work better if it was a case of a short dude who can't jump well turning up all enthusiastic to play, only to be told to "go buy some height and jumpy legs on the AH, nub".
Gearscore is not a good metric for player skill, nor is it a good metric for player enthusiasm. I've seen plenty of 15k peeps sitting out in the campfire.
Problem is, if after 29 minutes of waiting you need to take a leak, or are in a shop, or answering the door, or ... and the queue pops in that time, you are back at the start.
'cause you are not kept in the line, but are thrown out of the queue.
That's true, but it's also true that a team of people with 10k GearScore don't stand a chance against a team of people with the best stuff the game has to offer, unless those people are utterly terrible and half are afk'ing.
GearScore needs to be a part of the match-making equation. Even though this has an action combat system it is foremost an RPG, which means progression trumps player skill to a fairly high degree. If someone can killl you in one rotation, and you must hit them at least 15 times to inflict a kill, you have to be 5X better than the other person to win. The skill cap in this game is not high enough to make that likely.
Very true, and kind of annoying, but it beats having matches that aren't fun unless you're a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Queue for PvP:
Domination (Any - Fastest)
Domination (Starter to T1) Lowest Rewards
Domination (T1 to T2) Medium Rewards
Domination (Munchkin) Highest rewards
I love PvP in this game, it's fun. It's just pretty broken with a fresh character right now. Most all MMO's across history have ignored the problem, so I'd be shocked if PW did anything about it.
It's just going to get worse over time as more and more gear, artifacts, and boons are added. I think gearflation is the #1 reason MMO's start retaining less and less players over time. If a game has been out awhile hitting level cap means things like battlegrounds, etc., are no longer things you can do without weeks of grinding ahead of you.
The analogy works for the type of players whos gs I actually look at: fail players with zero desire to win or to improve. Someone keeps doing the wrong things after being politely asked to do the right things and I check their gs. Otherwise it is a non issue. Die a lot? So what. In an average pug you can just go right back to what you were doing when you died and it wont make that much difference. As long as you were doing the right thing. Like I said many times a good pug isnt necessarily high-gs and leading the scoreboard at the end. Winning the match and having your whole low gs team at the bottom of the scoreboard is especially rewarding and one of the reasons why I am addicted to pugging.
The "low gs, can't play?" is a question based on a false premise. It is an assumption based on what trolls in pvp say. Not the most credible sources of a basis from which to ask a hot-topic question.
Jugger Conq GF
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How do you prevent player that is doing fine in the "highest rewards level" from trolling in the "lowest rewards level"?
Not my problem to solve, but I'd guess restrictions on the queuing. You can't change gear while queue'd or in a match, and you can't queue for tiers you don't quality for. They already do this to some extent with Dungeon queuing, you can't queue dungeons you don't meet the requirement for.
Think about this game another year from now. You're gonna have seasoned characters running around with 100k+ HP and fresh level 60's will still have 2Xk HP. Probably with boons to literally breath fire and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on people from the dragon expansion.
If something like this isn't in place, it's just shutting out new players from doing PvP at all, and increasing the grind more and more over time to get them to the point that they can have fun matches. If PvP already isn't fun now for a fresh char, and the game is this young, it's really gonna be bad later.
Valid point here being that even without restrictions it'd be superior to what we got today. There are a handful of buttheads in any game, but most people want a fun back and forth PvP match, or to dominate against people that have no excuse for losing.