I am really sick of what you are doing to TR, on the day this game came out, it was an OP class indeed, but you know what you did? You nerfed every ability that does significant damage! Especially shocking execution that got a 40% damage nerf and the PRONE, the daium PRONE got removed! I dont even... why!!! Its the only class that has no prones now! DC has a prone, CW has prone, GWF has prone, GF has a **** load of prones, HR has a prone, TR has no prones.
You nerfed the overall damage of TR and cooldowns, being the class with slower DP gathering relying alot more on Encounters and At-Will, you even nerfed the damage and how many stacks you can have on Cloud of Steel!
Now tell me, you don't like executioners? Then why create them? You only make people upset with this, its the most useless class in this game ATM and its not even a joke! GWF for example, can do TR's job with more sustain and damage wich is 1v1 Combat (even bosses), HR can do the same with endless dodges and insane range gap closers and openers.
You know what TR is useful for? Exploits! Is that the class you want? Because its literally what you are doing!
Every other class can do TR's Job (not counting on DC's ofc) better but 1 thing: Dungeon runs (O.o Is this new to you? I guess you were never invited/invited a TR to a party in Gauntlgrym and Asked if they knew how to run the dungeon?)
Also, yesterday, there was a bug in Dread Ring where the gate would not open in a dungeon and TR's were the only ones being able to make the dungeon and thats what they were being invited for.
Let me guess: "what about perma-stealth?"
I know that's still a problem but its not mine, I don't do that! Many people don't, but when they do, they are certainly OP. If its because of this that you nerfed them so hard... why not fix the skills that can make you go perma-stealth? For example, if you make those abilities only give 80% of stealth metter back, I can GUARANTEE YOU that its not going to happen, people are going to change their gear cuz its not viable anymore and its not gamebreaking.
Now, what do I mean with all this text that you probably didn't read: Give TR's the prone back, 10 Cloud of Steel stacks at least, 20% more dmg on shocking execution, and remove the impact shot stack damage based thing WHILE fixing the Perma-Stealth problems, also please give more dmg on Path of the Blade and Duelist's Flurry just so we have a chance to compete in DPS again for dungeons (these skills are rarely used in PVP and are not very successful)
Thank you!
Well today i hit whit SE 40k dmg on sentinel but i dont tell my secret .
As for y i think running whit 2k power is not enugh. Things changed in mod 3 y shoud change you stats too.
In mod 3 tr not get any nerf just power changed and trs with low power see it as a nerf cuz they lost much dmg my Exe TR have 9 k power nobody can stand before him...
imagine if that wasnt made the game could change name to neverwinter to onlywizzwinter
Before that you were running dungeons usually with only one CW in group. If I'm right (was playing only DC at that time) group setup was 2x DC 1x CW 2x TR.
Well today i hit whit SE 40k dmg on sentinel but i dont tell my secret .
As for y i think running whit 2k power is not enugh. Things changed in mod 3 y shoud change you stats too.
In mod 3 tr not get any nerf just power changed and trs with low power see it as a nerf cuz they lost much dmg my Exe TR have 9 k power nobody can stand before him...
if you hit that hard then you can probably hit 35k with whirlwind of blades as an aoe.
it's not just that shocking execution was nerfed. it's also that it doesn't outperform the aoe daily by much
Well today i hit whit SE 40k dmg on sentinel but i dont tell my secret .
As for y i think running whit 2k power is not enugh. Things changed in mod 3 y shoud change you stats too.
In mod 3 tr not get any nerf just power changed and trs with low power see it as a nerf cuz they lost much dmg my Exe TR have 9 k power nobody can stand before him...
YEAH! I can also do that! If I crit to an 8k geared CW with 5% hp left! Shocking "Execution" is supposed to deal almost Half a guy's HP with crit, wich currently it can't do! Its a daily! Its the class with the slowest build up Daily! Its the class with the daily that is supposed to "execute" but it can be exchanged for an AOE daily that does more dmg!
Also, their gear is the hardest to get score! That means they have the worst Gear in the game and its true, almost everyone saw that already! If it wasnt ITC rogues would be useless cuz they would die instantly!
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
YEAH! I can also do that! If I crit to an 8k geared CW with 5% hp left! Shocking "Execution" is supposed to deal almost Half a guy's HP with crit, wich currently it can't do! Its a daily! Its the class with the slowest build up Daily! Its the class with the daily that is supposed to "execute" but it can be exchanged for an AOE daily that does more dmg!
Also, their gear is the hardest to get score! That means they have the worst Gear in the game and its true, almost everyone saw that already! If it wasnt ITC rogues would be useless cuz they would die instantly!
Running with P.vorpal +9 K power vs 3k power P.B huge difference .
9 power give me 54% dmg on SE +50 % from P.V.
3k power 18% dmg +nothing.
Time to think about what do you want slowly killing somone or fast kill.
But the point is SE not get any nerf i see a huge buff.
buff For Exe.tr .
nerf For perma mybe.(or stat balanced Trs)3k power 3k crit 3k arp
bile sunburst and chains pretty much locks them down. bile punishing light pretty much guarantees that they can't re-stealth at all as well. they tend to go for clerics so it's easy for us to know where they are at any time.
What is Bile Sunburst and Bile Punishing Light?
You cannot hit a Rogue with Chains of Blazing Light unless you already know where he is, or he is daft enough to walk into the rune.
And Punishing Light (My level 60 Dwarf has Cycle of Change and is combat specced) also needs a visible target.
Shivonomine claimed EVERY class has AT LEAST six or seven powers that will take out a TR. I think this is a lie put about by TR players who do not want their Uber-Broken class fixed and balanced.
I have 12 characters:
4 Clerics (a Tiefling, 2 Dwarves and a Halfling),
2 Rogues (both Halflings, one is a Perma-Stealth build)
2 Rangers (a Wood Elf and a Halfling)
2 GWF (Dwarf and Halfling)
a Halfling Mage and a Halfling GWF
My first 2 Clerics are level 60, all the others are between level 20 and 40, used mostly for AD Farming and Professions.
The number of times I am in my enchanted chain mail against a Rogue in leather and I can barely damage him is ridiculous. And in PvP I can barely heal any damage I receive at all, whatever level we are. My Tiefling level 60 AC is over-speced for Healing and Buffing and she survives no better against a Perma-Stealthed TR with Perma-Stun, while my Combat-Speced dwarf does barely any damage against them. They both have a full set of Tier 2 Grim gear with rank 7 and 8 enchants - not the best, but they should not be so pitiful.
The biggest imbalance in the design is the fact that I can get permanently stunned.
But, as I said at first, the worst thing is the new queuing system taking two balanced teams and then putting all the Warriors and Rogues in one and all the DC, CW and HR in the other. I am repeatedly teamed with CW, HR and another DC against 3 Warriors and 2 TRs.
That is just bad design, Cryptic.
Look at the 4E SRD and redo the mechanics of this game, Cryptic. Stealth guaranteeing a one-time Critical Strike Backstab is fine, but being permanently stunned so I cannot even move, let alone fight back, while the Rogue remains invisible and hits me over and over again without having to Tumble away and recharge his Stealth? Grow up!
Plus, all the DC Feats that add to Critical, Damage and Stun are in 0.1% increments, while other classes get 5% increments or more?
In any other MMO, stealth makes you walk slower.
In any other MMO, hitting unstealthes you
And, more to the point, in any edition of D&D or AD&D, both those points are true.
~
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poli201Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 16Arc User
edited May 2014
PermaStealths have 1 stunning skill. Being stunned over and over is as soon as that skill recharges, and he/she must be in stealth meaning you have 20 seconds and then MAYBE if he/she is in stealth, you get stunned.
You cannot hit a Rogue with Chains of Blazing Light unless you already know where he is, or he is daft enough to walk into the rune.
And Punishing Light (My level 60 Dwarf has Cycle of Change and is combat specced) also needs a visible target.
Shivonomine claimed EVERY class has AT LEAST six or seven powers that will take out a TR. I think this is a lie put about by TR players who do not want their Uber-Broken class fixed and balanced.
~
well, yes he is kinda lying
and bilethorn is a weapon enchant that counters perma-stealth. chains works because rogues are likely to dodge-roll when seen and then you just throw it down in the direction they went. finding them the 1st time is a matter of using sunburst on the node or walking around a bit to see them. hitting them even once will likely ruin their rotation and you will have a visible rogue for the rest of the fight.
i meant to use punishing once they are visible as it will proc bile a lot and prevent them for stealthing longer than 2 seconds.
Just pop in to give some infos abt clerics. Bile sunburst and chains CANNOT counter perma rogues, but Bile PL can. The reason of kicking him out stealth isn't the amount of damage inflicted, but is the number of times the tr takes damage. Bile sunburst/chains gives 3 stacks of damage only (1 bile, 1skill, 1 bile) while a pip of PL can inflict at least 10 or more bile ticks when they enter stealth (not counting initial 20 ticks of damage yet). However, the chance to do this is very minimal as perma will not appear to battle unless in ITC so you cant even channel your PL on him. Btw, it is better to use that time to dodge or cast a HW and Div Ex. on yourself rather than trying to hit him with PL. For annoying perma, Plaguefire will be a better alternative if you want to drain their stealth meter and synergy with ASeal + Burning Guidance combo, draining more stealth when they are close to you. Also prevent them to mount and exit combat when PL dots on them for 11 seconds (3+8). You can also use Madness boon as a DC when you equip Plaguefire.
Edit: Chains is bugged, sometimes cannot hit anyone but lying at thr so better not slotting it in pvp. Btw experienced tr will just rolled over the chains or walk through in ITC, no threat at all for them.
Just pop in to give some infos abt clerics. Bile sunburst and chains CANNOT counter perma rogues, but Bile PL can.
Edit: Chains is bugged, cannot hit anyone but lying at thr so never slot it in pvp. Experienced tr will just rolled over the chains or walk through in ITC.
hmmm, my experience is the exact opposite as i always unstealth permas with ease.
i do agree with the bug, but rogues don't seem to notice chains during a dodge-roll which is why i think that is the moment you can hit them with it or land it near someone else if in a group fight.
In any other MMO, stealth makes you walk slower.
In any other MMO, hitting unstealthes you
In any other MMO, stealth is a toggle and you can stay stealthed as long as you like if you don't attack.
In any other MMO, stealth classes have viable abilities for attacks and survival that don't require stealth.
In MOST other MMOs, stealth classes have an escape utility that allows them to slip into stealth in combat.
Neverwinter is not 'any other MMO'. The devs decided to implement stealth differently. Changing it now would require a complete rework of the TR from the ground up - delete class and start over. Not happening any time soon. If ever.
Sorry but my GF isn't able to hold up his shield infinitely and blocking does not remove me from the game + i still can take damage and can even be rooted. If you're going to compare class mechanics, stop trying to ridicule my opinion and do it in a logical manner or just leave it be. I'm not expecting, you understand the meaning of the word "honor" but not stabbing people in their backs and running away from fights has something to do with it.
I don't like to play as a rogue and it's my decision/opinion, live with it.
P.S. It's hard to take you serious, when you aren't able to understand that.
meh, sorry but when you're using your options to try and get a whole class nerfed because it doesn't fit into your idea of game morality I will ridicule it.
It's as crazy as me saying that hiding behind a shield is a cowardly thing and that shield should be nerfed.
TR's take damage in stealth and can even be rooted ^^. If you aren't willing to learn how a class operates because of your moral code IRL (lol) don't get on here and ask for nerfs. Hope this is logical enough for you.
Instead it might be better to ask for buffs to your class (like most sensible GFs are doing).
In any other MMO, stealth is a toggle and you can stay stealthed as long as you like if you don't attack.
In any other MMO, stealth classes have viable abilities for attacks and survival that don't require stealth.
In MOST other MMOs, stealth classes have an escape utility that allows them to slip into stealth in combat.
Neverwinter is not 'any other MMO'. The devs decided to implement stealth differently. Changing it now would require a complete rework of the TR from the ground up - delete class and start over. Not happening any time soon. If ever.
Pretty much agree with everything you said. The other MMO argument is getting old. We aren't playing other MMO's we are playing NW.
That's true, Stealth is pretty different here from most other MMO's, it has better things and worse things.
If they decide to change and have the worse things (like make it appear on any attack) then it should be implemented with the good things too.
Also in NW many feats revolve around extending stealth time, so that would also need a rework.
If they change all of that then I'm okay, but if you want stealth just to be removed on attack and don't think on how weak that would make TR's then my answer is NO.
Ok, so... Conclusion I got from reading all these comments:
1- Needs better gear stats.
2- Perma stealth needs to be fixed
3- If perma stealth gets fixed, It needs a buff on some powers
4- SE Is too weak for single target daily compared to the AOE daily
5- Needs more DPS and survivability for dungeons
6- Profit!
your attack someone your stealth is null n void thus fighting like a real player not sissy hiding behind a tree throwing stones at people..
then think about the other nerfed skills
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited May 2014
Not even a GF wants to facetank a mob. I doubt a TR wants to be caught out in the open.
They should add a new class mechanic that decreases threat in various ways. Still doesn't change pvp. Bar runs out, GWF says "hi".
your attack someone your stealth is null n void thus fighting like a real player not sissy hiding behind a tree throwing stones at people..
then think about the other nerfed skills
Why do we have to make stealth like in other games? Neverwinter has its own unique implementation.
Also, in some of those other games, my rogue could:
- stealth
- backstab you for 50% of your HP
- stunlock you for long seconds, while applying bleeds and poisons
- restealth
Why do we have to make stealth like in other games? Neverwinter has its own unique implementation.
Also, in some of those other games, my rogue could:
- stealth
- backstab you for 50% of your HP
- stunlock you for long seconds, while applying bleeds and poisons
- restealth
You really think this is somehow better?
let's not forget that other games have no dodge mechanic to avoid a backstab and the only class with high evasion are usually the rogues/thieves/assassins backstabbing everyone :P
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unbahMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 25Arc User
NW TRs already do all of that, except the stunlock.
Pretty sure I've never hit anyone for 50% of the health with anything other than pre-nerf SE. Or been hit by another TR for that much in a single attack either - again, pre-nerf SE excepted.
I played a variety of Rogue builds in Rift and they make the NW Rogue look like a pussycat.
Comments
Well today i hit whit SE 40k dmg on sentinel but i dont tell my secret .
As for y i think running whit 2k power is not enugh. Things changed in mod 3 y shoud change you stats too.
In mod 3 tr not get any nerf just power changed and trs with low power see it as a nerf cuz they lost much dmg my Exe TR have 9 k power nobody can stand before him...
Actually CWs were nerfed in AP gain and that nerf is one of reasons why is CW now stacked in groups
imagine if that wasnt made the game could change name to neverwinter to onlywizzwinter
Before that you were running dungeons usually with only one CW in group. If I'm right (was playing only DC at that time) group setup was 2x DC 1x CW 2x TR.
if you hit that hard then you can probably hit 35k with whirlwind of blades as an aoe.
it's not just that shocking execution was nerfed. it's also that it doesn't outperform the aoe daily by much
Also, their gear is the hardest to get score! That means they have the worst Gear in the game and its true, almost everyone saw that already! If it wasnt ITC rogues would be useless cuz they would die instantly!
Running with P.vorpal +9 K power vs 3k power P.B huge difference .
9 power give me 54% dmg on SE +50 % from P.V.
3k power 18% dmg +nothing.
Time to think about what do you want slowly killing somone or fast kill.
But the point is SE not get any nerf i see a huge buff.
buff For Exe.tr .
nerf For perma mybe.(or stat balanced Trs)3k power 3k crit 3k arp
Ofc
I feel sad for you before you all come here and tell devs lies .
Mybe y all shoud go to preview and try it out before spreading fash info into forums.
All you shoud do is to avoid armor penetration and use pure power +p.v instead weak 2-3 k power +Bile.
What is Bile Sunburst and Bile Punishing Light?
You cannot hit a Rogue with Chains of Blazing Light unless you already know where he is, or he is daft enough to walk into the rune.
And Punishing Light (My level 60 Dwarf has Cycle of Change and is combat specced) also needs a visible target.
Shivonomine claimed EVERY class has AT LEAST six or seven powers that will take out a TR. I think this is a lie put about by TR players who do not want their Uber-Broken class fixed and balanced.
I have 12 characters:
4 Clerics (a Tiefling, 2 Dwarves and a Halfling),
2 Rogues (both Halflings, one is a Perma-Stealth build)
2 Rangers (a Wood Elf and a Halfling)
2 GWF (Dwarf and Halfling)
a Halfling Mage and a Halfling GWF
My first 2 Clerics are level 60, all the others are between level 20 and 40, used mostly for AD Farming and Professions.
The number of times I am in my enchanted chain mail against a Rogue in leather and I can barely damage him is ridiculous. And in PvP I can barely heal any damage I receive at all, whatever level we are. My Tiefling level 60 AC is over-speced for Healing and Buffing and she survives no better against a Perma-Stealthed TR with Perma-Stun, while my Combat-Speced dwarf does barely any damage against them. They both have a full set of Tier 2 Grim gear with rank 7 and 8 enchants - not the best, but they should not be so pitiful.
The biggest imbalance in the design is the fact that I can get permanently stunned.
But, as I said at first, the worst thing is the new queuing system taking two balanced teams and then putting all the Warriors and Rogues in one and all the DC, CW and HR in the other. I am repeatedly teamed with CW, HR and another DC against 3 Warriors and 2 TRs.
That is just bad design, Cryptic.
Look at the 4E SRD and redo the mechanics of this game, Cryptic. Stealth guaranteeing a one-time Critical Strike Backstab is fine, but being permanently stunned so I cannot even move, let alone fight back, while the Rogue remains invisible and hits me over and over again without having to Tumble away and recharge his Stealth? Grow up!
Plus, all the DC Feats that add to Critical, Damage and Stun are in 0.1% increments, while other classes get 5% increments or more?
~
That was exactly my point as well. It is not D&D at all.
~
And, more to the point, in any edition of D&D or AD&D, both those points are true.
~
well, yes he is kinda lying
and bilethorn is a weapon enchant that counters perma-stealth. chains works because rogues are likely to dodge-roll when seen and then you just throw it down in the direction they went. finding them the 1st time is a matter of using sunburst on the node or walking around a bit to see them. hitting them even once will likely ruin their rotation and you will have a visible rogue for the rest of the fight.
i meant to use punishing once they are visible as it will proc bile a lot and prevent them for stealthing longer than 2 seconds.
Edit: Chains is bugged, sometimes cannot hit anyone but lying at thr so better not slotting it in pvp. Btw experienced tr will just rolled over the chains or walk through in ITC, no threat at all for them.
hmmm, my experience is the exact opposite as i always unstealth permas with ease.
i do agree with the bug, but rogues don't seem to notice chains during a dodge-roll which is why i think that is the moment you can hit them with it or land it near someone else if in a group fight.
In any other MMO, stealth classes have viable abilities for attacks and survival that don't require stealth.
In MOST other MMOs, stealth classes have an escape utility that allows them to slip into stealth in combat.
Neverwinter is not 'any other MMO'. The devs decided to implement stealth differently. Changing it now would require a complete rework of the TR from the ground up - delete class and start over. Not happening any time soon. If ever.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
meh, sorry but when you're using your options to try and get a whole class nerfed because it doesn't fit into your idea of game morality I will ridicule it.
It's as crazy as me saying that hiding behind a shield is a cowardly thing and that shield should be nerfed.
TR's take damage in stealth and can even be rooted ^^. If you aren't willing to learn how a class operates because of your moral code IRL (lol) don't get on here and ask for nerfs. Hope this is logical enough for you.
Instead it might be better to ask for buffs to your class (like most sensible GFs are doing).
Pretty much agree with everything you said. The other MMO argument is getting old. We aren't playing other MMO's we are playing NW.
If they decide to change and have the worse things (like make it appear on any attack) then it should be implemented with the good things too.
Also in NW many feats revolve around extending stealth time, so that would also need a rework.
If they change all of that then I'm okay, but if you want stealth just to be removed on attack and don't think on how weak that would make TR's then my answer is NO.
How dare you!
1- Needs better gear stats.
2- Perma stealth needs to be fixed
3- If perma stealth gets fixed, It needs a buff on some powers
4- SE Is too weak for single target daily compared to the AOE daily
5- Needs more DPS and survivability for dungeons
6- Profit!
Correct?
your attack someone your stealth is null n void thus fighting like a real player not sissy hiding behind a tree throwing stones at people..
then think about the other nerfed skills
They should add a new class mechanic that decreases threat in various ways. Still doesn't change pvp. Bar runs out, GWF says "hi".
Why do we have to make stealth like in other games? Neverwinter has its own unique implementation.
Also, in some of those other games, my rogue could:
- stealth
- backstab you for 50% of your HP
- stunlock you for long seconds, while applying bleeds and poisons
- restealth
You really think this is somehow better?
let's not forget that other games have no dodge mechanic to avoid a backstab and the only class with high evasion are usually the rogues/thieves/assassins backstabbing everyone :P
What I've learned in the past year playing a TR is, that I will prolly see Whirlwind of Blades nerfed to the ground instead of SE buffed.
NW TRs already do all of that, except the stunlock.
And yes. It is a helluva lot better than having to face an enemy that has practically no vulerability time at all.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I played a variety of Rogue builds in Rift and they make the NW Rogue look like a pussycat.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder