Gear diversity is ridiculous, you either get Power and Defense / Recovery and Defense / or Defense Deflection and Max Hp. They give you a DPS paragon without DPS gear! Be nice to have chance to get ARP gear / Crit Gear like every other class...
Slow as cold molasses, boost run speed all you want you will still be slower!
Poorest TAB feature in the entire game!
Fighters Recovery should be half the cost and instant, something to counter unstoppable...
Encounters should be able to be used while in the guarded state
Guard blocking seems to be in slow motion
Etc Etc etc........................
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I can say with 100% confidence that all but a few dungeons are far easier with a Guardian Fighter than without one unless the Guardian Fighter follows the typical builds that try to turn them into a DPS class. Most players are seriously blind to the potential of GFs partly because the elitist status quo is anti-GF and the majority of GFs are building Guardian Fighters in a manner which is just...horrible.
For instance somebody just recently said that Guardian Fighters are not tanky. Sounds like a conqueror build focussed on damage. My spec focusses on tanking adds. When I take damage I reduce enemy damage, when I attack I reduce enemy damage, when I take damage I generate threat, when I take damage I do damage, when I do any form of damage I generate threat.
I don't die in dungeons. Nor do I use a shield other than to prevent CC. What I do is keep my team attacking rather than dodging and running around. I don't do a lot of damage but my team does a lot more due to me.
Just to give you an idea of how tanky a GF can be, I ran around the lava in MT Hotenow for over two hours and did not drink a single potion. Only reason I left was because I finally got bored enough to do something else.
I didn't feel underpowered before the buffs. Now that I got the buffs I honestly feel overpowered.
The shortcoming is that dungeons will be slightly slower. Slightly slower but far easier.
Which gets to the nitty gritty...
Just because it is slower doesn't mean it needs to be buffed. Especially when you are not holding a class against a single other class but are actually holding it up against stacked effects. For instance what makes multiple CWs so powerful is actually the staggered AS. A single Guardian Fighter versus a single CW is more often then not a mild comparison.
Again, stacking is the problem. Truthfully until stacking is addressed its comparing apples to oranges.
And please note you won't be hearing me talk about the Gf PvP experience in any way. Since I do not PvP competitively I will not ever be talking about class balance in PvP unless it is blatantly obvious as an imbalance.
Partly I can understand why players could be blamed for all of this, but that would be just one side of the coin.
As in the discussion about ARC, you try your best to understand many statements in the worst of intentions and again: the others are the culprit and you point with a finger to them but are not able to see that three fingers are pointing back to you.
You think that stacking is the sole problem? So, stacking is causing the problem? Why not put your statement to a test? Let us stack more than just a single Guardian Fighter and see if stacking causes the said problem: stacked abilities are getting stronger and stronger and making things easier and easier.
Is that the case for the GF?
As to the statement about the tankiness of a GF, I see no evidence you bring forth, I just see you arguing with solo content a GF is more than able to handle; in a dungeon things are somewhat different. A GF has to be aware of her surroundings and to use the right skills at the right time but -- the handling of a GF is slow and s-l-o-w.
Really, the first time I saw Into the Fray, I just got reminded of Kermit; and so are other skills like Iron Warrior and the whole block mechanics.
But I can understand that this slowness is some way to improve difficulty in PvE, although a bad way and making this class a bit unreliable and unnecessarily harder to handle as a player has to factor in the wasted time all the elaborated animations need; not to speak of the situation where a GF gets proned and at which point he reminds me of a turtle till he is able to block again, and even then you have to speculate if you have to release the button again to be able to re-block or if the animation was just too slow and you can keep pressing the button: all a real fuss about blocking. And ever tried to use a potion between blocking? It is really no problem -- if I use the right hand on the mouse to push the key for my potions because using the left hand is too quick for the process of stop blocking, using potion, start blocking.
But all of this slowness is just a joke for PvP where you have to deal with players used to their class with their quick manoeuvres and fast skills and all you are able to do now is playing the little troll just proning and stunning things here and there and may God help you if someone focus his fire on you. I tested all the talent trees and there is no too big of a difference when a GF gets caught off guard, because she is almost as fast down as every other class and in a fight easier brought down in the long run if the enemy plays a Great Weapon Fighter with his superior mitigation.
But we have block to use... although just little 18% can be removed from you Guard Meter that are roughly five strong hits and then your Guard Meter takes over 6 seconds to recover -- but you are already dead at this point.
The block mechanics were useful in the past but now is outperformed by all the other gear and stats.
And as I speak of the tiny 18% a Guard Meter can be lowered at a time... we could get a buff of 100% to our Guard Meter, still 18% stays 18% of 100% and this is a -- joke. There is a 50% damage reduction against attacks with a red circle on the ground but nowadays these attacks - especially in PvP - are not the attacks which kill Guard Meter so fast.
But go on! Just say repeatedly everything is alright and every player of a Guardian Fighter is too dumb to make any meaningful experience. Maybe we all get used to your saying and keep silent and bear a happy smile.
I for sure will not, he says hes awesome as a tank but doesn't tell us where? Nor does he PvP! So his experience is probably less then most of us as in entirety of game play...
GF is a clunky poorly animated, slow class that needs some tweaking.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
0
darkzangaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
Maybe there needs to be two threads cause I dont give two rats azzzs about pvp. I wouldnt pvp on any game with any character. Although its a sad state when a character is no good in any arena.
Maybe there needs to be two threads cause I dont give two rats azzzs about pvp. I wouldnt pvp on any game with any character. Although its a sad state when a character is no good in any arena.
Some of us enjoy the quick fast paced gameplay against other thinking humans over artificially controlled intelligence stand on A run to B, then jump on C = winning!
Surely you cannot accept GF is fine in PvE? The GF has glaring issues in PvE also even if our Moderator is the greatest GF ever to grace the pixels of this game.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Maybe there needs to be two threads cause I dont give two rats azzzs about pvp. I wouldnt pvp on any game with any character. Although its a sad state when a character is no good in any arena.
I would like VERY much to have a separate forum for PvP, I've asked for the mods/Devs to look into doing this for us to no avail.
I would like VERY much to have a separate forum for PvP, I've asked for the mods/Devs to look into doing this for us to no avail.
First of all, there is already a forum section for PvP and this is a class-only section, irrespective of PvP or PvE; so, why in all the nine hells should we need a PvP-class-only forum section? Are there not enough sections already? Should we switch back and forth from one class section to the other for PvE and PvP?
The Devs and Mods have enough to do, no need for more redundant work for them in my opinion.
And the second thing is: this is in the meantime a bit off topic.
Hi, i was playing GF a long time it was my first character in this game, but i left him for CW. Actually i use him to close instantions.
In my opinion, in pvp GF i balanced but we all know that is strange in this game becouse he should have the most survivabillity and our beloved friend GWF is 3x more tanky than GF. GF has got big hp, he can make easily 40k with lets say decend defens, but not much deflect ( GF should have GWF defense stats in game, maby creator confused these 2 classes?), 2 knockdown skills with fast loaging, daily is prette fast loading to and i think it is power of tanks. When he use supremacy of steel it is moment when i actually trying to not atack him becouse this skill is making massacre. The whole art consist in the fact that GF must using his shield very reasonably, and believe me, sometimes in pvp when we met 2 tanks in enemy team i felt like tennis ball. Actually main problem of GF is that they are usuelles in dungeons but i think it is problem of greater part of character in this game. For what we should take tank on dung when GWF can easily tanking adds that same or event better than GF and his damage is 5x higher?:) Actualy best party is 3x GWF 2x CW rest of classes are usueles.
Maby i am not expert about D&D system but cryptic should take off GWF survivability, (this is class to make dmg not to has best survivability+ best dmg in game this is way to OP) make monsters dmg much higher and change GF's defensive stats. But it is my opinion, looks like Cryptic have anothey way of thinking about class role in this game, all of this not only GF but all classes should be carefully thought again, and trying to systematically introduced to gameplay. I apologize in advance for spelling mistakes, gretting for all, Obsy.
Bear in mind that PvP and PvE GWFs are usually very, very different. PvP tends to favour Iron vanguard sentinel-path GWFs with insanely high hitpoints (to get ludicrous arpen and survivability) doing chain knockdowns and with most of their damage through student of the sword debuff and deep gash procs. PvE tends to favour swordmaster destroyer GWFs with much lower con (because you don't need more than 24% arpen and you don't need that many HP for PvE) doing monstrous damage through just having a ton of str and dex (for damage and crit) and of course through student of the sword and deep gash.
So what works in one will be less successful in the other. And of course both student of the sword and deep gash are being reworked in mod3, so while GFs might not get better, GWFs will almost certainly get worse.
0
hitkillMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
Guardian Fighter is a good class, no doubt about it, but what the class lacks is mechanics; while other classes change stances, we have a single-target bad-generating threat mark, is both useless and underwhelming
what guardian fighter needs is excitement; nowadays, the thing you can do with the class is: activate threat and hold shift, maintaining threat and guard; or it can happen later on, that even with threat you can't hold the target, and the monster attacks everyone... it is a mix of underwhelming defense to panic as your threat do nothing
in most games, tankers are needed to take the damage, and it was the case of this game on early beta, but this is not the case anymore, especially early on, as I can tank a dungeon using a hunter... so if the party doesn't depend on tankers, the class could at least provide bonuses for having a GF in the party
maybe by using tab we can change stances, a defensive stance that giver more defense, guard, resistance and threat but little to no damage, and a stance that do damage; skills don't even need to change animation, but have different bonuses in each stance, or something like that
at least for me, the class is good enough, but pretty boring, repetitive and has no variety in the gameplay
Guardian Fighter is a good class, no doubt about it... but what the class lacks is mechanics, while other classes change stances, we have a single-target bad-generating threat mark, is both useless and underwhelming
what guardian fighter needs is excitement, now, the thing you can do with the class is: activate threat, hold shift and maintaining threat and guard; or it can help later on, that even with threat you can't hold the target, and the monster attacks everyone... it is a mix of underwhelming defense to panic as your threat do nothing
in most games, tankers are needed to take the damage, and it was the case of this game on early beta, but this is not the case anymore, especially early on, as I can tank a dungeon using a hunter... so if the party doesn't depend on tankers, the class could at least provide bonuses for having a GF in the party
maybe by using tab we can change stances, a defensive stance that giver more defense, guard, resistance and threat but little to no damage, and a stance that do damage, skills don't even need to change animation, but have different bonuses in each stance, or something like that
at least talking for me only, the class is good enough, but pretty boring, repetitive and has no variety in the gameplay
That would be great it would make Tab useful anyway!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
0
havvkyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2014
Like we need more bloody defense, we are way over the soft cap limit for defense already.
GFs are not at all under-powered in PvP. Let's just clear that up
I know I'm going to get flamed for saying this but there really isn't that much wrong with the GF class in PvE. There's 2 main reasons why people mistakenly believe this:
1. The PvE meta-game has evolved into a zerg-AoE-DPS type of play-style. Gather everything up onto the most threatening target and burn everything on top of that target. This play-style is in many cases quickest, most effective, and most reliable. CWs and GWFs are naturally much better at adapting this type of playstyle and thus have become the classes of choice for PvE content, especially in Tier 2+, leaving the remaining classes behind.
2. Everyone is severely over-geared for the content that we have. We don't need GFs to hold aggro because the squishiest class in the game can absorb damage. We don't need healers because the best dps classes in the game can use Lifesteal to heal themselves. You can become powerful enough to enter Castle Never at level 50. We're just too strong and so naturally when choosing members for a dungeon, we only take offensive classes, because that is all we need.
The problem with GFs in PvE (which for the same reasons listed above, also effects HR/TR/DC) lies in the content design of the Epic Dungeons. Not in the design of the classes.
Pretty much on par, but this usually end up like this because fully gear people return to farm the content, get the zurg mentality from that. Take a full squad of minimum required GS for the zone, the zone poses a huge challenge for them, and GFs are most defiantly wanted.
0
mazel76Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 28Arc User
Comments
Tha' GF comes near my party I kill it!
**** nature, you scary!
Now I'm angry, Devs you need to do something this is absurd.
Fought a GWF, he was rank 8's nothing special, I'm max geared.
I landed all of my encounters, never missed one (probably about 10 or so full rotations), got off 2 dailies, didn't even get him to 3/4 health.
He missed virtually everything, but in the course of the fight he hit me about 4 times with an encounter, one was a takedown/IBS combo.
I died.
Feats are a mess and not focused in any path
Guard breaks far to easily
Some CC goes through guard??????
DOTs should effect HP not Guard Meter
Gear diversity is ridiculous, you either get Power and Defense / Recovery and Defense / or Defense Deflection and Max Hp. They give you a DPS paragon without DPS gear! Be nice to have chance to get ARP gear / Crit Gear like every other class...
Slow as cold molasses, boost run speed all you want you will still be slower!
Poorest TAB feature in the entire game!
Fighters Recovery should be half the cost and instant, something to counter unstoppable...
Encounters should be able to be used while in the guarded state
Guard blocking seems to be in slow motion
Etc Etc etc........................
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Partly I can understand why players could be blamed for all of this, but that would be just one side of the coin.
As in the discussion about ARC, you try your best to understand many statements in the worst of intentions and again: the others are the culprit and you point with a finger to them but are not able to see that three fingers are pointing back to you.
You think that stacking is the sole problem? So, stacking is causing the problem? Why not put your statement to a test? Let us stack more than just a single Guardian Fighter and see if stacking causes the said problem: stacked abilities are getting stronger and stronger and making things easier and easier.
Is that the case for the GF?
As to the statement about the tankiness of a GF, I see no evidence you bring forth, I just see you arguing with solo content a GF is more than able to handle; in a dungeon things are somewhat different. A GF has to be aware of her surroundings and to use the right skills at the right time but -- the handling of a GF is slow and s-l-o-w.
Really, the first time I saw Into the Fray, I just got reminded of Kermit; and so are other skills like Iron Warrior and the whole block mechanics.
But I can understand that this slowness is some way to improve difficulty in PvE, although a bad way and making this class a bit unreliable and unnecessarily harder to handle as a player has to factor in the wasted time all the elaborated animations need; not to speak of the situation where a GF gets proned and at which point he reminds me of a turtle till he is able to block again, and even then you have to speculate if you have to release the button again to be able to re-block or if the animation was just too slow and you can keep pressing the button: all a real fuss about blocking. And ever tried to use a potion between blocking? It is really no problem -- if I use the right hand on the mouse to push the key for my potions because using the left hand is too quick for the process of stop blocking, using potion, start blocking.
But all of this slowness is just a joke for PvP where you have to deal with players used to their class with their quick manoeuvres and fast skills and all you are able to do now is playing the little troll just proning and stunning things here and there and may God help you if someone focus his fire on you. I tested all the talent trees and there is no too big of a difference when a GF gets caught off guard, because she is almost as fast down as every other class and in a fight easier brought down in the long run if the enemy plays a Great Weapon Fighter with his superior mitigation.
But we have block to use... although just little 18% can be removed from you Guard Meter that are roughly five strong hits and then your Guard Meter takes over 6 seconds to recover -- but you are already dead at this point.
The block mechanics were useful in the past but now is outperformed by all the other gear and stats.
And as I speak of the tiny 18% a Guard Meter can be lowered at a time... we could get a buff of 100% to our Guard Meter, still 18% stays 18% of 100% and this is a -- joke. There is a 50% damage reduction against attacks with a red circle on the ground but nowadays these attacks - especially in PvP - are not the attacks which kill Guard Meter so fast.
But go on! Just say repeatedly everything is alright and every player of a Guardian Fighter is too dumb to make any meaningful experience. Maybe we all get used to your saying and keep silent and bear a happy smile.
GF is a clunky poorly animated, slow class that needs some tweaking.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Some of us enjoy the quick fast paced gameplay against other thinking humans over artificially controlled intelligence stand on A run to B, then jump on C = winning!
Surely you cannot accept GF is fine in PvE? The GF has glaring issues in PvE also even if our Moderator is the greatest GF ever to grace the pixels of this game.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I would like VERY much to have a separate forum for PvP, I've asked for the mods/Devs to look into doing this for us to no avail.
First of all, there is already a forum section for PvP and this is a class-only section, irrespective of PvP or PvE; so, why in all the nine hells should we need a PvP-class-only forum section? Are there not enough sections already? Should we switch back and forth from one class section to the other for PvE and PvP?
The Devs and Mods have enough to do, no need for more redundant work for them in my opinion.
And the second thing is: this is in the meantime a bit off topic.
That's not a joke. I'm getting convinced that none of the devs actually play guardian fighter.
P.S: All the other class artifacts give either crit or power.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Other characters on the same account should be able to claim their artefact too, for you it is the GF artefact now.
Read this: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?635441-Official-Feedback-Thread-Artifacts/page23&p=7863931&viewfull=1#post7863931
In my opinion, in pvp GF i balanced but we all know that is strange in this game becouse he should have the most survivabillity and our beloved friend GWF is 3x more tanky than GF. GF has got big hp, he can make easily 40k with lets say decend defens, but not much deflect ( GF should have GWF defense stats in game, maby creator confused these 2 classes?), 2 knockdown skills with fast loaging, daily is prette fast loading to and i think it is power of tanks. When he use supremacy of steel it is moment when i actually trying to not atack him becouse this skill is making massacre. The whole art consist in the fact that GF must using his shield very reasonably, and believe me, sometimes in pvp when we met 2 tanks in enemy team i felt like tennis ball. Actually main problem of GF is that they are usuelles in dungeons but i think it is problem of greater part of character in this game. For what we should take tank on dung when GWF can easily tanking adds that same or event better than GF and his damage is 5x higher?:) Actualy best party is 3x GWF 2x CW rest of classes are usueles.
Maby i am not expert about D&D system but cryptic should take off GWF survivability, (this is class to make dmg not to has best survivability+ best dmg in game this is way to OP) make monsters dmg much higher and change GF's defensive stats. But it is my opinion, looks like Cryptic have anothey way of thinking about class role in this game, all of this not only GF but all classes should be carefully thought again, and trying to systematically introduced to gameplay. I apologize in advance for spelling mistakes, gretting for all, Obsy.
So what works in one will be less successful in the other. And of course both student of the sword and deep gash are being reworked in mod3, so while GFs might not get better, GWFs will almost certainly get worse.
what guardian fighter needs is excitement; nowadays, the thing you can do with the class is: activate threat and hold shift, maintaining threat and guard; or it can happen later on, that even with threat you can't hold the target, and the monster attacks everyone... it is a mix of underwhelming defense to panic as your threat do nothing
in most games, tankers are needed to take the damage, and it was the case of this game on early beta, but this is not the case anymore, especially early on, as I can tank a dungeon using a hunter... so if the party doesn't depend on tankers, the class could at least provide bonuses for having a GF in the party
maybe by using tab we can change stances, a defensive stance that giver more defense, guard, resistance and threat but little to no damage, and a stance that do damage; skills don't even need to change animation, but have different bonuses in each stance, or something like that
at least for me, the class is good enough, but pretty boring, repetitive and has no variety in the gameplay
That would be great it would make Tab useful anyway!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Pretty much on par, but this usually end up like this because fully gear people return to farm the content, get the zurg mentality from that. Take a full squad of minimum required GS for the zone, the zone poses a huge challenge for them, and GFs are most defiantly wanted.
*Ding* TKO