Can't you see that everybody is against you? Your data is EXTREMELY flawed and I doubt you have much experience with PvP at all. HRs do not use bugs against TRs, so many bugs were cracked down within the first month of the HR and their are no widely known bugs for the HR as of today. Hrs are a decent class that sit right in the middle just above CWs in PvP and are absolutely terrible in PvE.
The HR has a total of 6 Control abilities out of all Dailies, Encounters, At-wills, and class features total. And they're are mostly roots and slows and very few disables.
The CW has a total of 16 Control abilities out of all Dailies, Encounters, At-Wills, and class features total. The CW has Way more CC than the HR and that is why they're chosen over HRs in DDs.
You are coming on as one of the most ignorant people I have yet to see on these forums.
"Everyone" is incorrect, and besides that, people are disagreeing on specific points, but not everything. Feel free to make some statements, I'm sure someone will disagree with you on. The only difference is, I can't respond fully to everyone's misunderstanding.
I already stated before HR's use range immunity, and auto target. I don't know why people keep talking about PvE. 16 controls on 5 slots is still only 5 max. The controls are brief due to tenacity.
I only appear ignorant because I made a statement that you are unwilling to understand or even listen to... Sorry, you only seem to want to attack me, and not have an actual discussion however (by calling ignorance and the "put up or shut up" attitude), so I will be giving up with these responses towards you. Let's just part ways now.
To be fair, there is no tenacity in PvE. I'm not entirely sure why we're arguing over who has more CC; regardless, HRs have good CC and far more survivability than CWs. The best HRs can kill the best GWFs and TRs in 1v1s, although at that point the discussion no longer reflects what may be true for most PvPers.
And I think that's this guy's problem with HRs. In PvP, theyre more versatile, and quite strong in the right hands. But I was addressing his "HRs have more control than CWs" statement. As was stated earlier, CWs have almost 4x times the control powers that HRs do. And they have better damage(power to power comparison) at that. Constricting Arrow may be a good disruptive control power, but it does no damage other than its initial hit(which I consider lackluster). Its meant to be followed up with other powers. Entangling Force(DoT, control), Chill Strike(brief freeze, okay damage), Icy Rays(freeze, good damage in mastery slot), Shard(great damage, prone(possibly 2 if played right)). See the comparison?
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
"Everyone" is incorrect, and besides that, people are disagreeing on specific points, but not everything. Feel free to make some statements, I'm sure someone will disagree with you on. The only difference is, I can't respond fully to everyone's misunderstanding.
I already stated before HR's use range immunity, and auto target. I don't know why people keep talking about PvE. 16 controls on 5 slots is still only 5 max. The controls are brief due to tenacity.
I only appear ignorant because I made a statement that you are unwilling to understand or even listen to... Sorry, you only seem to want to attack me, and not have an actual discussion however (by calling ignorance and the "put up or shut up" attitude), so I will be giving up with these responses towards you. Let's just part ways now.
It's the exact same with the HR except the HR has a total of 6 slots and can only use 3 CC at a time because no melee or Ranged CC ability has a CC counterpart. Making it only possible to run 3 CC encounters at once. The CW can still run more CC than the HR at all given times and very much do so.
I don't understand why all of a sudden you see HRs are God. You would think that if HRs were really as OP as you say they are than there would be much more threads of them than there are Sent-GWF and Perma-TR threads which are atleast 5x as more abundant than HR qq threads.
You might, just you alone as an individual, may not fully understand on how to counter HRs as well as most people. I for one have no problems with HRs at all and hardly ever see one with more kills than GWFs and TRs alike.
Arc, proud officer of Novus Ordo
New to the game? Check out my build guide to give you an idea on how to set up your characters!
venom0619Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited May 2014
Sadly entangling force is 2nd longest CC compared to icy rays (which is still short compared to prone). Although Shard is good for prone, I have never seen a CW land one well - because you either dodge move, or just simply prone/daze to make it disappear (since it takes time to cast/push), even with it on tab, you're at best getting the drop on 1-2 unsuspecting people. I have only seen shard useful against already CCed targets.
I don't understand why all of a sudden you see HRs are God. You would think that if HRs were really as OP as you say they are than there would be much more threads of them than there are Sent-GWF and Perma-TR threads which are atleast 5x as more abundant than HR qq threads.
I think this mainly has to do with the fact that HRs are harder to play well than GWFs and perma-TRs. From my experience, it requires more skill to be a deadly HR than a deadly GWF or TR, so people don't QQ about them as much, because they aren't encountered as frequently. But like I've said, if you take the very best players, you'll find that HRs will actually beat GWFs and TRs in a 1v1 more often. However, to get to that level of play and gear isn't easy and doesn't reflect what most people can do with their HRs.
You have to consider when you're talking about the best players in the game, their skill level will usually not be equivalent. In other words one player will usually be more skilled than the other.
The thing with 1v1's in this game is it only matters in domination games when fighting over a node.
Between HR and GWF it will matter who currently controls the node. This will usually take place at GWF's home point, meaning he can more easily get a node cap and have an advantage. Usually, if the GWF has control of the node, he will kill the HR, but it can take a long time, especially if HR isn't actually trying to kill the GWF but simply avoid. If the GWF is backcapping HR's home point and doesn't have control of the node, then the HR will have the advantage except in the case the HR is pure +HP/regen/deflect gear.
Between GWF and TR it will also matter who currently controls the node but to a lesser extent. Generally this will also be a GWF's home point and the TR can focus on surviving instead of killing. 1v1 in this situation, if the TR isn't trying to kill the GWF, the TR can survive indefinitely. With enough +hp/regen a GWF by himself has no recourse to take a TR off a node unless the TR makes some mistakes and the GWF has more offense oriented gear.
Now, in the reverse case where the GWF is capping the TR's home point. If they are built with enough +hp/regen/def/deflect they can survive for a very long time in a 1v1 situation. If the TR has no offensive jewelry/belt then a GWF can survive indefinatly if tanky enough.
Between TR and HR, again it depends on who already controls the node but to a lesser extent than HR vs GWF. In the case that the HR isn't using thorn ward, the TR can contest the node indefinitely. This is important to note because if the HR is at TR's home point and the enemy team occasionally brings in a GWF or a CW as a temporary replacement, the HR will be gimped on encounters.
Sadly entangling force is 2nd longest CC compared to icy rays (which is still short compared to prone). Although Shard is good for prone, I have never seen a CW land one well - because you either dodge move, or just simply prone/daze to make it disappear (since it takes time to cast/push), even with it on tab, you're at best getting the drop on 1-2 unsuspecting people. I have only seen shard useful against already CCed targets.
You aren't playing versus/with very good CWs, then. Obviously, shard is mainly only good on CCed targets. That's why good CWs with combo their shard with icy rays/entangling so that it cannot be dodged or moved out of. Granted, it's not an easy task, but plenty of good CWs in higher level PvP manage pretty well.
You have to consider when you're talking about the best players in the game, their skill level will usually not be equivalent. In other words one player will usually be more skilled than the other.
The thing with 1v1's in this game is it only matters in domination games when fighting over a node.
Between HR and GWF it will matter who currently controls the node. This will usually take place at GWF's home point, meaning he can more easily get a node cap and have an advantage. Usually, if the GWF has control of the node, he will kill the HR, but it can take a long time, especially if HR isn't actually trying to kill the GWF but simply avoid. If the GWF is backcapping HR's home point and doesn't have control of the node, then the HR will have the advantage except in the case the HR is pure +HP/regen/deflect gear.
Between GWF and TR it will also matter who currently controls the node but to a lesser extent. Generally this will also be a GWF's home point and the TR can focus on surviving instead of killing. 1v1 in this situation, if the TR isn't trying to kill the GWF, the TR can survive indefinitely. With enough +hp/regen a GWF by himself has no recourse to take a TR off a node unless the TR makes some mistakes and the GWF has more offense oriented gear.
Now, in the reverse case where the GWF is capping the TR's home point. If they are built with enough +hp/regen/def/deflect they can survive for a very long time in a 1v1 situation. If the TR has no offensive jewelry/belt then a GWF can survive indefinatly if tanky enough.
Between TR and HR, again it depends on who already controls the node but to a lesser extent than HR vs GWF. In the case that the HR isn't using thorn ward, the TR can contest the node indefinitely. This is important to note because if the HR is at TR's home point and the enemy team occasionally brings in a GWF or a CW as a temporary replacement, the HR will be gimped on encounters.
I use GWF/TR/HR in this post because they are generally considered the better PvP classes and aside from also CW, I have the most experience with them.
Generally speaking though,
-the TR is the best node capper/contester for home and enemy base points,
-HR is best 'all around' because they can do decent at capping home and enemy base and they are also useful in middle and good off node,
-GWF is good atdefendinghome and enemy base points and is very good in middle except when he has no ranged backup.
Based on the bias I'm guessing you're a GWF that got owned by some HRs recently, so much so you decided to make a rage post with a chart.
Btw, main con of HR is no CC immunity whatsoever. Dodges are great and all but 1 undodgable icy root from out of nowhere and an HR is done for. That's my favorite thing to do when I play CW- just hunt out HRs and root them. Then either follow up with entangling>shard or watch my team pile on them.
And to say that they have more CC than a CW just goes to show you have not played both classes. HR has about as much CC as a TR.
As a CW that uses Shield on Mastery in PvP i wouldn't go too far in my assumptions on what's OP or not, mister OP...
How do you know he uses shield on mastery? If so then LOL.
I had a team today with two CWs, one with shield and one with shield in mastery. I thought to myself, "Oh great, dumb and dumber."
I'd say that's wildly inaccurate. Good TRs have pretty much no CC. The constricting and daze give an HR some reasonably significant CC.
0
venom0619Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited May 2014
@hamlet
1) I play all 6 classes. I think HR/TR/GWF are all OP, however I decided to try and rank them. No one here has denied the top 3 or bottom 3 rankings.
2) CC immunity = dodge, sorry. Besides, the HR has *high mobility*.
3) You provide no information other than opinion. Nobody will agree that an HR is equivalent to TR on CC.
4) I never said CW destroys more than GWF, hell I ranked GWF higher than CW, so where does this assumption come from?
Considering your 1st sentence starts off with just a negative statement, your 1st and 4th points are based on incorrect assumptions. Please take time to read before doing a reply.
0
venom0619Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited May 2014
I use shield ONLY in GG, where I throw people into spikes. I definitely DO NOT take GG seriously, but apparently we found out the 1 guy who does, sorry for pushing you into the spikes.
People who think a 20v20 is evenly matched, and takes it serious needs their head checked. Most agree 5v5s are imbalanced (poor matchmaking). GG is first come first serve, no balancing.
I use shield ONLY in GG, where I throw people into spikes. I definitely DO NOT take GG seriously, but apparently we found out the 1 guy who does, sorry for pushing you into the spikes.
People who think a 20v20 is evenly matched, and takes it serious needs their head checked. Most agree 5v5s are imbalanced (poor matchmaking). GG is first come first serve, no balancing.
@hamlet
1) I play all 6 classes. I think HR/TR/GWF are all OP, however I decided to try and rank them. No one here has denied the top 3 or bottom 3 rankings.
2) CC immunity = dodge, sorry. Besides, the HR has *high mobility*.
3) You provide no information other than opinion. Nobody will agree that an HR is equivalent to TR on CC.
4) I never said CW destroys more than GWF, hell I ranked GWF higher than CW, so where does this assumption come from?
Considering your 1st sentence starts off with just a negative statement, your 1st and 4th points are based on incorrect assumptions. Please take time to read before doing a reply.
1. Many people have disagreed that HR is by far and away the top most OP class in the game, Godmode, and the game should be called "Hunter Ranger Online".
2. You can't dodge Icy Root. Icy Root has no effect on a GWF in unstoppable or a TR in ITC, so no, dodge isn't equal to CC immunity. Not to mention you can use CC-immunity moves after being CC'ed. You can't dodge out of CC.
3. Dazing strike, slow from deft strike, Daze from smoke bomb, pushback from impact shot, and they have a prone on a whisperknife daily. That's comparable to the 3 mini-dazes with constricting shot, the daze from disrupting shot, and the boar charge prone.
CWs have many more CC abilities and are likely to use them all.
4. In the "destroys" vs. "fair fight" chart, you list CW destroying 2 classes and the GWF only destroying 1.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
0
venom0619Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited May 2014
@hamlet
"Please take time to read before doing a reply."
1) Top 3.. bottom 3... I don't know what else to say if you don't understand at this point.
2) High mobility means in between the CC or near end of fight, you just drag everyone away and/or survive.
3) someone already pointed out, good TRs have no CC:
dazing is useless (easy to dodge),
deft strike is weak and has a poor duration,
smoke bomb "come stay in this cloud please" isn't going to work on anyone
impact shot is an interrupt (breaking your stealth)
Whisperknife daily vs shocking execution? 50% of your health or stay still for 3-4 seconds... tough choice
4) How often do you see GFs/DCs? And before you respond, keep in mind Cryptic released the statistic that they are among the LEAST created/played class. DCs at 11%, GF at 13%.
@hamlet
"Please take time to read before doing a reply."
1) Top 3.. bottom 3... I don't know what else to say if you don't understand at this point.
2) High mobility means in between the CC or near end of fight, you just drag everyone away and/or survive.
3) someone already pointed out, good TRs have no CC:
dazing is useless (easy to dodge),
deft strike is weak and has a poor duration,
smoke bomb "come stay in this cloud please" isn't going to work on anyone
impact shot is an interrupt (breaking your stealth)
Whisperknife daily vs shocking execution? 50% of your health or stay still for 3-4 seconds... tough choice
4) How often do you see GFs/DCs? And before you respond, keep in mind Cryptic released the statistic that they are among the LEAST created/played class. DCs at 11%, GF at 13%.
Most matches you see GWFs/TRs/HRs. Few DCs/GFs.
1. Your thread is not about a top three and a bottom three. It's very severely biased saying that HR is way more OP than all other classes. Maybe you should read your own thread...
2. It means diddly-squat against Icy Root. And you can't dodge out of CC once it happens. Dodge =/ CC-immunity.
3. Nonetheless, the number of abilities available are comparable, whereas a CW has 2-3 times more. Also, whisperknife TRs don't have access to Shocking Execution so there is no choice to be made there.
An HR is likely to use exactly 2 CC'ing moves- constricting arrow and the daily disruptive shot. TWO. A CW is likely to use 6.
6 is greater than 2, btw.
4. I see lots of GFs in PVP. DCs I see less. Regardless, I'm not sure how that addresses the fact that you listed CW destroying more classes than a GWF.
3. Dazing strike, slow from deft strike, Daze from smoke bomb, pushback from impact shot, and they have a prone on a whisperknife daily. That's comparable to the 3 mini-dazes with constricting shot, the daze from disrupting shot, and the boar charge prone.
Most of those skills aren't ones even half-decent TRs use in PvP. Otherwise, we can start bringing up other HR skills like roots that aren't particularly viable. The only CC you've mentioned that is used semi-regularly in PvP by TRs is maybe smoke bomb, and none (maybe 1?) of the top TRs use that. But pretty much all HRs use constricting and daze. The typical, good TR has Shadow Strike, PoB, and ITC on their bar. (Really, the prone on the whisperknife daily? Are you serious? It's not at ALL comparable when you're comparing skills HRs use all the time to skills TRs rarely use. Hell, might as well argue that DCs have as much CC as the HR. And let's not forget that many HRs can also design their rotation so that they pretty much always have constricting up.)
0
venom0619Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited May 2014
Sorry, this will be my last reply @hamlet, since you don't seem to be understanding.
1) Thread is rankings, top 1 doesn't mean I think the other 5 aren't OP.
2) When you throw a CC at someone who dodges... it says "IMMUNE", therefor Dodge = CC immunity... Icy Rays is an exception, however you follow that up with? Poor CC. I hate how people are counting the number of CC abilities and not the actual effect. That's great, "16" abilities to choose from, but only so many are VIABLE, or do you seriously think steal time/maelstrom/sing/repel/icy terrain...etc. is useful in pvp?
3) First you compare TR/HR, then CW/HR. CW counter point is above this.
TRs dont choose whisperknife.
4) You say CWs should be destroying in PVP with my logic... I say there are no scissors for the rock to smash, only paper and other rocks.
BTW, I know you ONLY have a GWF, you were on my friends list for the past 3 months (we used to run PK greeds), although you rarely log in. Just not sure how or why you are trying to argue about other classes when you have never played them. Feels like you just came here to disagree with anything.
This thread in a nutshell- CW upset that constricting arrow is especially effective against CWs. CW doesn't realize icy root is especially effective against HRs (balance).
BTW, I know you ONLY have a GWF, you were on my friends list for the past 3 months, although you rarely log in. Just not sure how or why you are trying to argue about other classes when you have never played them. Feels like you just came here to disagree with anything.
I rarely play my GWF, maybe that's why you see me "rarely log in". I mostly play my CW and HR. I also have a TR but got sick of contesting a node all game and my team being unable to do anything with the other 2.
I PVP every day and way more often than would be considered healthy.
venom0619Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited May 2014
@arcmoon99
Please stop trolling, your "guide" that takes 90% of its content from the wiki/game tooltips, doesn't exactly show you know anything. Telling me in game that you know this game better than me because you played a year longer (yet your best enchant is a normal vorpal, and your "main" character "pvp HR" is only 1.3k power) Yet you came out strong calling me ignorant?
@arcmoon99
Please stop trolling, your "guide" that takes 90% of its content from the wiki/game tooltips, doesn't exactly show you know anything. Telling me in game that you know this game better than me because you played a year longer (yet your best enchant is a normal vorpal, and your "main" character "pvp HR" is only 1.3k power) Yet you came out strong calling me ignorant?
You are very ignorant, and this post you just made is very off-topic to your thread. I suspect a thread derailing like this will cause the mods to take this thread down.
On top of that I wasn't even talking about my own skill at all in this thread.
1. Power is an absoloutly terrible stat to stack in PvP in comparison to ArP, Crit, and Recovery. Which I have plenty of the 3 on that character anyways. 2.5k+ on each stat.
2. My guide has nothing to do with this thread and it's only to help new players out who want a jump start in this game (I apologize for trying to help new members in the community)
3. I have much more than a normal vorpal
4. You have yet to see my characters perform in this game
5. You had the nerves to come on to the game and just trash talk because you're crying over your terrible forum post
6. You're constant butt hurt is not helping your case
7. The HR is not my main
8. HRs are still not the strongest class in PvP
Edit:
9. You don't even know how to use the quote mechanics, you're treating this forum like as if it were Twitter
Arc, proud officer of Novus Ordo
New to the game? Check out my build guide to give you an idea on how to set up your characters!
I don't know why OP is saying HR has more CC than a CW. In PvP they will be usually using 2. In the case they are using boar charge they are either giving up a lot of damage or swapping out marauder's rush/charge or swapping out constricting arrow, all benefits when fighting a CW.
HRs are OP and 'God mode'? My experiences on my HR for the last two nights suggest rather strongly otherwise.
HR takes a LOT of skill to play well. More often you will come across player like myself who can be effective but are nowhere near exploiting the full potential of the class.
Compare with GWF where anyone with a heartbeat can dominate most other classes of equivalent GS.
CW CONS
Tenacity now means no Control for your "Control" Wizard
Half a second cast timers
CWs will rarely rank 1st in PVP Score/Kills
Compared to an HR who has more control/equivalent damage/more defense/more abilities, this class just seems like an ugly step child now.
That's because there are too many rubbish CWS around, with no idea how to play or which equipment to use. In pug matches I get double figures in kills nearly every game, and I come first every third game. I have seen other CWS do this as well. Of course it depends who is on your team, like a good GWF.
Its really not that hard
Following is a 1v1 comparison. Obviously 5v5 team mechanics alter this balance. But this is my attempt to show how unbalanced the "triangle" is.
The 1v1 comparison was made on the assumption of the only available PVP maps. Domination being the only one, meaning survival. If you can survive vs a class for more than a minute, then that's points contested: aka fair fight, but it must be done in a set area/node (keep this in mind for the rogue comparison)
Its fine that some classes counter others...(that's the whole point of "Classes" in the first place) but when rock paper scissors is being played, and spock wins every time...[/QUOTE]
First off, a CW destroys guardian fighter??? Have you ever fought a GS as a CW. I have. And they are a load. Yes they are killable but its not an easy fight..as you say. And HRS don't destroy CWS. I like HRs, almost as much as CWS in Pvp, because they are easier to kill. You really should rethink this chart.
TRS do not destroy CWS -
If anything CWS have the greatest problems with GS, GWFS and to an extent TRS.
And GS's if played, actually are pretty hard.
GWF vs TR is a fair fight????? DC VS TR a fair fight??
Comments
"Everyone" is incorrect, and besides that, people are disagreeing on specific points, but not everything. Feel free to make some statements, I'm sure someone will disagree with you on. The only difference is, I can't respond fully to everyone's misunderstanding.
I already stated before HR's use range immunity, and auto target. I don't know why people keep talking about PvE. 16 controls on 5 slots is still only 5 max. The controls are brief due to tenacity.
I only appear ignorant because I made a statement that you are unwilling to understand or even listen to... Sorry, you only seem to want to attack me, and not have an actual discussion however (by calling ignorance and the "put up or shut up" attitude), so I will be giving up with these responses towards you. Let's just part ways now.
And I think that's this guy's problem with HRs. In PvP, theyre more versatile, and quite strong in the right hands. But I was addressing his "HRs have more control than CWs" statement. As was stated earlier, CWs have almost 4x times the control powers that HRs do. And they have better damage(power to power comparison) at that. Constricting Arrow may be a good disruptive control power, but it does no damage other than its initial hit(which I consider lackluster). Its meant to be followed up with other powers. Entangling Force(DoT, control), Chill Strike(brief freeze, okay damage), Icy Rays(freeze, good damage in mastery slot), Shard(great damage, prone(possibly 2 if played right)). See the comparison?
It's the exact same with the HR except the HR has a total of 6 slots and can only use 3 CC at a time because no melee or Ranged CC ability has a CC counterpart. Making it only possible to run 3 CC encounters at once. The CW can still run more CC than the HR at all given times and very much do so.
I don't understand why all of a sudden you see HRs are God. You would think that if HRs were really as OP as you say they are than there would be much more threads of them than there are Sent-GWF and Perma-TR threads which are atleast 5x as more abundant than HR qq threads.
You might, just you alone as an individual, may not fully understand on how to counter HRs as well as most people. I for one have no problems with HRs at all and hardly ever see one with more kills than GWFs and TRs alike.
I think this mainly has to do with the fact that HRs are harder to play well than GWFs and perma-TRs. From my experience, it requires more skill to be a deadly HR than a deadly GWF or TR, so people don't QQ about them as much, because they aren't encountered as frequently. But like I've said, if you take the very best players, you'll find that HRs will actually beat GWFs and TRs in a 1v1 more often. However, to get to that level of play and gear isn't easy and doesn't reflect what most people can do with their HRs.
The thing with 1v1's in this game is it only matters in domination games when fighting over a node.
Between HR and GWF it will matter who currently controls the node. This will usually take place at GWF's home point, meaning he can more easily get a node cap and have an advantage. Usually, if the GWF has control of the node, he will kill the HR, but it can take a long time, especially if HR isn't actually trying to kill the GWF but simply avoid. If the GWF is backcapping HR's home point and doesn't have control of the node, then the HR will have the advantage except in the case the HR is pure +HP/regen/deflect gear.
Between GWF and TR it will also matter who currently controls the node but to a lesser extent. Generally this will also be a GWF's home point and the TR can focus on surviving instead of killing. 1v1 in this situation, if the TR isn't trying to kill the GWF, the TR can survive indefinitely. With enough +hp/regen a GWF by himself has no recourse to take a TR off a node unless the TR makes some mistakes and the GWF has more offense oriented gear.
Now, in the reverse case where the GWF is capping the TR's home point. If they are built with enough +hp/regen/def/deflect they can survive for a very long time in a 1v1 situation. If the TR has no offensive jewelry/belt then a GWF can survive indefinatly if tanky enough.
Between TR and HR, again it depends on who already controls the node but to a lesser extent than HR vs GWF. In the case that the HR isn't using thorn ward, the TR can contest the node indefinitely. This is important to note because if the HR is at TR's home point and the enemy team occasionally brings in a GWF or a CW as a temporary replacement, the HR will be gimped on encounters.
You aren't playing versus/with very good CWs, then. Obviously, shard is mainly only good on CCed targets. That's why good CWs with combo their shard with icy rays/entangling so that it cannot be dodged or moved out of. Granted, it's not an easy task, but plenty of good CWs in higher level PvP manage pretty well.
I use GWF/TR/HR in this post because they are generally considered the better PvP classes and aside from also CW, I have the most experience with them.
Generally speaking though,
-the TR is the best node capper/contester for home and enemy base points,
-HR is best 'all around' because they can do decent at capping home and enemy base and they are also useful in middle and good off node,
-GWF is good at defending home and enemy base points and is very good in middle except when he has no ranged backup.
Based on the bias I'm guessing you're a GWF that got owned by some HRs recently, so much so you decided to make a rage post with a chart.
Btw, main con of HR is no CC immunity whatsoever. Dodges are great and all but 1 undodgable icy root from out of nowhere and an HR is done for. That's my favorite thing to do when I play CW- just hunt out HRs and root them. Then either follow up with entangling>shard or watch my team pile on them.
And to say that they have more CC than a CW just goes to show you have not played both classes. HR has about as much CC as a TR.
How do you know he uses shield on mastery? If so then LOL.
I had a team today with two CWs, one with shield and one with shield in mastery. I thought to myself, "Oh great, dumb and dumber."
I'd say that's wildly inaccurate. Good TRs have pretty much no CC. The constricting and daze give an HR some reasonably significant CC.
1) I play all 6 classes. I think HR/TR/GWF are all OP, however I decided to try and rank them. No one here has denied the top 3 or bottom 3 rankings.
2) CC immunity = dodge, sorry. Besides, the HR has *high mobility*.
3) You provide no information other than opinion. Nobody will agree that an HR is equivalent to TR on CC.
4) I never said CW destroys more than GWF, hell I ranked GWF higher than CW, so where does this assumption come from?
Considering your 1st sentence starts off with just a negative statement, your 1st and 4th points are based on incorrect assumptions. Please take time to read before doing a reply.
People who think a 20v20 is evenly matched, and takes it serious needs their head checked. Most agree 5v5s are imbalanced (poor matchmaking). GG is first come first serve, no balancing.
Trolling is fine by me
1. Many people have disagreed that HR is by far and away the top most OP class in the game, Godmode, and the game should be called "Hunter Ranger Online".
2. You can't dodge Icy Root. Icy Root has no effect on a GWF in unstoppable or a TR in ITC, so no, dodge isn't equal to CC immunity. Not to mention you can use CC-immunity moves after being CC'ed. You can't dodge out of CC.
3. Dazing strike, slow from deft strike, Daze from smoke bomb, pushback from impact shot, and they have a prone on a whisperknife daily. That's comparable to the 3 mini-dazes with constricting shot, the daze from disrupting shot, and the boar charge prone.
CWs have many more CC abilities and are likely to use them all.
4. In the "destroys" vs. "fair fight" chart, you list CW destroying 2 classes and the GWF only destroying 1.
"Please take time to read before doing a reply."
1) Top 3.. bottom 3... I don't know what else to say if you don't understand at this point.
2) High mobility means in between the CC or near end of fight, you just drag everyone away and/or survive.
3) someone already pointed out, good TRs have no CC:
dazing is useless (easy to dodge),
deft strike is weak and has a poor duration,
smoke bomb "come stay in this cloud please" isn't going to work on anyone
impact shot is an interrupt (breaking your stealth)
Whisperknife daily vs shocking execution? 50% of your health or stay still for 3-4 seconds... tough choice
4) How often do you see GFs/DCs? And before you respond, keep in mind Cryptic released the statistic that they are among the LEAST created/played class. DCs at 11%, GF at 13%.
Most matches you see GWFs/TRs/HRs. Few DCs/GFs.
1. Your thread is not about a top three and a bottom three. It's very severely biased saying that HR is way more OP than all other classes. Maybe you should read your own thread...
2. It means diddly-squat against Icy Root. And you can't dodge out of CC once it happens. Dodge =/ CC-immunity.
3. Nonetheless, the number of abilities available are comparable, whereas a CW has 2-3 times more. Also, whisperknife TRs don't have access to Shocking Execution so there is no choice to be made there.
An HR is likely to use exactly 2 CC'ing moves- constricting arrow and the daily disruptive shot. TWO. A CW is likely to use 6.
6 is greater than 2, btw.
4. I see lots of GFs in PVP. DCs I see less. Regardless, I'm not sure how that addresses the fact that you listed CW destroying more classes than a GWF.
Most of those skills aren't ones even half-decent TRs use in PvP. Otherwise, we can start bringing up other HR skills like roots that aren't particularly viable. The only CC you've mentioned that is used semi-regularly in PvP by TRs is maybe smoke bomb, and none (maybe 1?) of the top TRs use that. But pretty much all HRs use constricting and daze. The typical, good TR has Shadow Strike, PoB, and ITC on their bar. (Really, the prone on the whisperknife daily? Are you serious? It's not at ALL comparable when you're comparing skills HRs use all the time to skills TRs rarely use. Hell, might as well argue that DCs have as much CC as the HR. And let's not forget that many HRs can also design their rotation so that they pretty much always have constricting up.)
1) Thread is rankings, top 1 doesn't mean I think the other 5 aren't OP.
2) When you throw a CC at someone who dodges... it says "IMMUNE", therefor Dodge = CC immunity... Icy Rays is an exception, however you follow that up with? Poor CC. I hate how people are counting the number of CC abilities and not the actual effect. That's great, "16" abilities to choose from, but only so many are VIABLE, or do you seriously think steal time/maelstrom/sing/repel/icy terrain...etc. is useful in pvp?
3) First you compare TR/HR, then CW/HR. CW counter point is above this.
TRs dont choose whisperknife.
4) You say CWs should be destroying in PVP with my logic... I say there are no scissors for the rock to smash, only paper and other rocks.
BTW, I know you ONLY have a GWF, you were on my friends list for the past 3 months (we used to run PK greeds), although you rarely log in. Just not sure how or why you are trying to argue about other classes when you have never played them. Feels like you just came here to disagree with anything.
I rarely play my GWF, maybe that's why you see me "rarely log in". I mostly play my CW and HR. I also have a TR but got sick of contesting a node all game and my team being unable to do anything with the other 2.
I PVP every day and way more often than would be considered healthy.
Please stop trolling, your "guide" that takes 90% of its content from the wiki/game tooltips, doesn't exactly show you know anything. Telling me in game that you know this game better than me because you played a year longer (yet your best enchant is a normal vorpal, and your "main" character "pvp HR" is only 1.3k power) Yet you came out strong calling me ignorant?
You are very ignorant, and this post you just made is very off-topic to your thread. I suspect a thread derailing like this will cause the mods to take this thread down.
On top of that I wasn't even talking about my own skill at all in this thread.
1. Power is an absoloutly terrible stat to stack in PvP in comparison to ArP, Crit, and Recovery. Which I have plenty of the 3 on that character anyways. 2.5k+ on each stat.
2. My guide has nothing to do with this thread and it's only to help new players out who want a jump start in this game (I apologize for trying to help new members in the community)
3. I have much more than a normal vorpal
4. You have yet to see my characters perform in this game
5. You had the nerves to come on to the game and just trash talk because you're crying over your terrible forum post
6. You're constant butt hurt is not helping your case
7. The HR is not my main
8. HRs are still not the strongest class in PvP
Edit:
9. You don't even know how to use the quote mechanics, you're treating this forum like as if it were Twitter
HR takes a LOT of skill to play well. More often you will come across player like myself who can be effective but are nowhere near exploiting the full potential of the class.
Compare with GWF where anyone with a heartbeat can dominate most other classes of equivalent GS.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Tenacity now means no Control for your "Control" Wizard
Half a second cast timers
CWs will rarely rank 1st in PVP Score/Kills
Compared to an HR who has more control/equivalent damage/more defense/more abilities, this class just seems like an ugly step child now.
That's because there are too many rubbish CWS around, with no idea how to play or which equipment to use. In pug matches I get double figures in kills nearly every game, and I come first every third game. I have seen other CWS do this as well. Of course it depends who is on your team, like a good GWF.
Its really not that hard
This clearly shows OP has low experience and no clue about NW PvP.
The 1v1 comparison was made on the assumption of the only available PVP maps. Domination being the only one, meaning survival. If you can survive vs a class for more than a minute, then that's points contested: aka fair fight, but it must be done in a set area/node (keep this in mind for the rogue comparison)
Its fine that some classes counter others...(that's the whole point of "Classes" in the first place) but when rock paper scissors is being played, and spock wins every time...[/QUOTE]
First off, a CW destroys guardian fighter??? Have you ever fought a GS as a CW. I have. And they are a load. Yes they are killable but its not an easy fight..as you say. And HRS don't destroy CWS. I like HRs, almost as much as CWS in Pvp, because they are easier to kill. You really should rethink this chart.
TRS do not destroy CWS -
If anything CWS have the greatest problems with GS, GWFS and to an extent TRS.
And GS's if played, actually are pretty hard.
GWF vs TR is a fair fight????? DC VS TR a fair fight??
This is the only statement i found which is 100% correct in any case.