CW counter to Unstoppable?

ripyourlipsoff · April 2014

Are there any plans on giving CW a counter to Unstoppable, as we cannot get away, we cannot absorb the damage, and we cannot slow or stop them?

Fighting a TR throwing blades whiles Perma Stealthed is hard enough, then add an HR rooting and interrupting you over and over, but at least those 2 CW can maybe get away or survive if lucky... GWF you just can't get away, they are to fast, cannot be CCd, have MASSIVE damage, and oh they have ridiculous amounts of DR!

I think the Devs need to make shield useful or give the CW an immunity that can be used against other immunities.

silverquick · April 2014

That's really been my problem with PvP... and the reason I no longer even bother with it.

In a nutshell, all their stuff works... mine doesn't so why bother. If my stuff worked, as effectively as theirs did, I'd be more than happy to jump in again. But since it just doesn't. Its just a waste of my time for me to bother with.

ianthewizard2012 · April 2014

Nerf Unstoppable's duration like how CW's cc duration is nerfed. Problem solved.

Or restore CW's cc duration.

silverquick · April 2014

ianthewizard2012 wrote: »

Nerf Unstoppable's duration like how they nerfed CW's cc duration. Problem solved.

I wouldn't even CARE if they left it completely alone and as is....

What I have a problem with is MINE not working.

I am not some ***** who is afraid of dying... or having my feelings hurt because someone got beat in PvP. I don't even care if you can one hit me... but apparently the people who play OTHER classes really ARE.

BUT... until mine works... why the hell would I or ANY CW even bother with PvP at all.

We're not here to be your little B**** and kill score count. I don't care if you're abilities are just killer... I just expect mine to be too.

I am totally against the Nerf theirs down to that level... because that's how everything GOT this screwed up in the first place.

warpet · April 2014

u are ranged class gwf is not, u have real dodge gwf dose not, 1 your dodge is better then full stamina gwf sprint
i just dont get u guys your role in pvp is not to go on node and easy kill stealth tr,gf,gwf if cw do its role it is allways in top 3 places in pvp by score,kills and a lot of time way beter then some of so called op classes

silverquick · April 2014

warpet wrote: »

u are ranged class gwf is not, u have real dodge gwf dose not, 1 your dodge is better then full stamina gwf sprint
i just dont get u guys your role in pvp is not to go on node and easy kill stealth tr,gf,gwf if cw do its role it is allways in top 3 places in pvp by score,kills and a lot of time way beter then some of so called op classes

BS...

I don't want to hear that... what I WANT to hear... is that my stuff works...

I don't care if yours works like a god... I don't care if you have super invulnrability. I just don't care. I DONT care if you can one hit me...

I DO care that you're not running around while I mosquito bite you because you were too much of a wuss and couldn't handle my REAL power... so you wanted it nerfed.

Don't give me that HAMSTER.

I am NOT going to play that way or sit and walk into a fight with one hand tied behind my back.

You want me in there... then my **** works too.

BOTTOM LINE...

ripyourlipsoff · April 2014

warpet wrote: »

u are ranged class gwf is not, u have real dodge gwf dose not, 1 your dodge is better then full stamina gwf sprint
i just dont get u guys your role in pvp is not to go on node and easy kill stealth tr,gf,gwf if cw do its role it is allways in top 3 places in pvp by score,kills and a lot of time way beter then some of so called op classes

We understand that! I am not asking to be a god? We have no defense, no immunity, and are only defense is CC which only lasts 0.5-1.5 secs... I don't think its meant that GWFs can run almost as fast as a mount while being immune to ALL cc and having super high defense and regen while able to also do massive burst! That's just to much.

We can only dodge a couple times and we are left pretty much defenseless. All I want is as silver said either our Control powers to work, or we are given an ability to counter other immunities. I don't think that's to much to ask!

skalt112 · April 2014

The only defense against unstopable for anyone is to kite, and that only works against poorly played gwf's.

ianthewizard2012 · April 2014

warpet wrote: »

u are ranged class gwf is not, u have real dodge gwf dose not, 1 your dodge is better then full stamina gwf sprint
i just dont get u guys your role in pvp is not to go on node and easy kill stealth tr,gf,gwf if cw do its role it is allways in top 3 places in pvp by score,kills and a lot of time way beter then some of so called op classes

No one is talking about 1v1.

warpet · April 2014

ianthewizard2012 wrote: »

No one is talking about 1v1.

then gwf should not be problem for u let gf or gwf to take care of gwf they can easy counter it
also with mod 3 gwf will get mega dps nerf instigator and sentinel will lose some 30% damage in pvp and 50%-70% in pve

silverquick · April 2014

warpet wrote: »

then gwf should not be problem for u let gf or gwf to take care of gwf they can easy counter it
also with mod 3 gwf will get mega dps nerf instigator and sentinel will lose some 30% damage in pvp and 50%-70% in pve

WHO GIVES A ****...

What? Do you think suddenly and mysteriously the game is going to be any better if EVERYONE is gimped?

Who the hell wants to play a game like that??

I sure as hell don't.

And no for the record I completely cannot understand WHY Rangers OR GWFs are being nerfed. Luckily from what it sounds like GWFs aren't actually getting nerfed and for once the Devs were as good as their word about their damage being the same or better due to the power rework...

BUT EVEN IF THEY WERE....

What the HELL made you think I would want that anyway?

I don't give a **** how powerful they are or were... they can be that powerful...

I just want MY stuff to work and YOU to not be such a pansy... otherwise what the hell is the POINT??

nemesao · April 2014

skalt112 wrote: »

The only defense against unstopable for anyone is to kite, and that only works against poorly played gwf's.

The real problem is that GWF have got GF at-will called Threatening Rush. This at-will ****ed CW up no matter what we do now, we just cant kite em. Before that, we could kite when GWF's staminia were over, but now... i just dont play my CW anymore in pugs cause there is no way to do anything

skalt112 · April 2014

nemesao wrote: »

The real problem is that GWF have got GF at-will called Threatening Rush. This at-will ****ed CW up no matter what we do now, we just cant kite em. Before that, we could kite when GWF's staminia were over, but now... i just dont play my CW anymore in pugs cause there is no way to do anything

A well played gwf owns everyone 1v1 pvp. It's just the way it is.

silverquick · April 2014

nemesao wrote: »

The real problem is that GWF have got GF at-will called Threatening Rush. This at-will ****ed CW up no matter what we do now, we just cant kite em. Before that, we could kite when GWF's staminia were over, but now... i just dont play my CW anymore in pugs cause there is no way to do anything

GREAT,

That's why you hit him with your CC abillities before he gets it up...

Oh wait... guess what... they don't work... or do for like half a second. So guess what MR unstoppable is... well he's unstoppable because... Oh HAMSTER someone wanted to nerf the counter to it...

Well no Efin wonder PvP continues to get more and more unbalanced the more and more they nerf it..

You'd think some people would learn...

godlysoul2 · April 2014

It seems to be the opinion of the developers that they want to take CW into a more support role instead of a DPS one. From that viewpoint its fine that you don't have a counter to a specific class special ability for a duration. It isn't your job to counter them so much as provide support on them in a team setting. When they are not unstoppable, they have a 100% CC hit rate. Aside from one move which is incredibly not viable in PvP, a GWF will be subjected to any CC move on them by a CW 100% of the time due to lack of dodge capabilities. Also, CW gets more than one knockdown prone move, which while under the effect a GWF can not activate unstoppable. The CC chaining capability between a good CW and any other class with CC capability can be incredible. Especially since CW can still provide decent damage while having so many control aspects.

GWF need this CC resist duration to make up for the fact that they are a melee based class, unlike ranged based as a CW and also because they lack any dodge moves which subjects them to any CC that comes at them while not unstoppable.

The problem isn't CW vs GWF. The problem is CW vs anyone 1v1. They have said they don't want to balance the game around 1v1 to encourage team gameplay. They want CW as a support role, not a killing role.

silverquick · April 2014

godlysoul2 wrote: »

It seems to be the opinion of the developers that they want to take CW into a more support role instead of a DPS one. From that viewpoint its fine that you don't have a counter to a specific class special ability for a duration. It isn't your job to counter them so much as provide support on them in a team setting.

Where the HELL did you come up with this HAMSTER?

Do you honestly think ANYONE plays a CWs for a "support class"... Hell no...

AND how the hell could you even BE a support classs anyway if none of your HAMSTER works?

You want us to participate again?

You'd best reverse that course in a big hurry. Because I'm not there to be your little B*** for your personal kill count.

You want to Fight? Hell we'll do it... if not.. count me out. I am NOT going to sit here and fight you with one hand tied behind my back because you were too much of a ***** to fight someone who actually... *shock* *boggle* can fight back against that invulnerabillity.

There's your answer. And I can't see ANY reason for me to encourage any CW to even bother to participate in that. I sure as hell won't.

You want to stroke yourself off ... go do it alone.

kolatmaster · April 2014

Now let me state, clearly, that any Class that has an ability that is NOT working should have it fixed so that it works as the Devs intended.

With that being said...

godlysoul2 wrote: »

It seems to be the opinion of the developers that they want to take CW into a more support role instead of a DPS one. From that viewpoint its fine that you don't have a counter to a specific class special ability for a duration. It isn't your job to counter them so much as provide support on them in a team setting.

silverquick wrote: »

Where the HELL did you come up with this HAMSTER?

It's because he is correct in is summation of the Class roles.

skalt112 · April 2014

silverquick wrote: »

Where the HELL did you come up with this HAMSTER?

Do you honestly think ANYONE plays a CWs for a "support class"... Hell no...

AND how the hell could you even BE a support classs anyway if none of your HAMSTER works?

You want us to participate again?

You'd best reverse that course in a big hurry. Because I'm not there to be your little B*** for your personal kill count.

You want to Fight? Hell we'll do it... if not.. count me out. I am NOT going to sit here and fight you with one hand tied behind my back because you were too much of a ***** to fight someone who actually... *shock* *boggle* can fight back against that invulnerabillity.

There's your answer. And I can't see ANY reason for me to encourage any CW to even bother to participate in that. I sure as hell won't.

You want to stroke yourself off ... go do it alone.

You seem very angry, but it will be ok. Deep breaths......

ripyourlipsoff · April 2014

godlysoul2 wrote: »

It seems to be the opinion of the developers that they want to take CW into a more support role instead of a DPS one. From that viewpoint its fine that you don't have a counter to a specific class special ability for a duration. It isn't your job to counter them so much as provide support on them in a team setting. When they are not unstoppable, they have a 100% CC hit rate. Aside from one move which is incredibly not viable in PvP, a GWF will be subjected to any CC move on them by a CW 100% of the time due to lack of dodge capabilities. Also, CW gets more than one knockdown prone move, which while under the effect a GWF can not activate unstoppable. The CC chaining capability between a good CW and any other class with CC capability can be incredible. Especially since CW can still provide decent damage while having so many control aspects.

GWF need this CC resist duration to make up for the fact that they are a melee based class, unlike ranged based as a CW and also because they lack any dodge moves which subjects them to any CC that comes at them while not unstoppable.

The problem isn't CW vs GWF. The problem is CW vs anyone 1v1. They have said they don't want to balance the game around 1v1 to encourage team gameplay. They want CW as a support role, not a killing role.

Shard and Iceknife are prones, you try and get a Shard off on a GWF while you are prone, prone, slowed, proned byt that time you are at 30% maybe less and even if you get a lucky cc off and try to get away he will be back on you in less then 2 secs! We are Control Wizards ~ not Support Wizards! We are supposed to control yet are the only class completely gimped by the lack of "Control". prones last 2-4 secs while our CC lasts .5...

colonelwing · April 2014

kolatmaster wrote: »

Now let me state, clearly, that any Class that has an ability that is NOT working should have it fixed so that it works as the Devs intended.

With that being said...

It's because he is correct in is summation of the Class roles.

The TS joined in January... no wonder that he's still a bit confused and thinks that CW's are a dps class, just because they happen to have some overpowered aoe spells...

---

On a sidenote, what's up with the many CW's coming out of the woodworks wanting to facetank melee classes? It does not really make sense. Pyjama vs sword = the sword wins, end of the story.

silverquick · April 2014

colonelwing wrote: »

The TS joined in January... no wonder that he's still a bit confused and thinks that CW's are a dps class, just because they happen to have some overpowered aoe spells...

Incorrect...

I joined the game back in July... I joined the boards... in January... Yes... I've been here all along...

ripyourlipsoff · April 2014

colonelwing wrote: »

The TS joined in January... no wonder that he's still a bit confused and thinks that CW's are a dps class, just because they happen to have some overpowered aoe spells...

---

On a sidenote, what's up with the many CW's coming out of the woodworks wanting to facetank melee classes? It does not really make sense. Pyjama vs sword = the sword wins, end of the story.

Do you even read? We don't want to face tank anyone... We want our CCs to last as long as a prone, or have a way to getaway from the Unstoppable Melee, because right now you cannot! I don't see how you couldn't understand that in words we typed above?

Comprehension.

On a side note, why is it you choose to disparage me because you want to speculate I don't know how to play is rude.

vorphied · April 2014

colonelwing wrote: »

The TS joined in January... no wonder that he's still a bit confused and thinks that CW's are a dps class, just because they happen to have some overpowered aoe spells...

---

On a sidenote, what's up with the many CW's coming out of the woodworks wanting to facetank melee classes? It does not really make sense. Pyjama vs sword = the sword wins, end of the story.

Without going into excessive detail, the biggest problem seems to be that, due to the poor performance of non-proning controls and the number of hard counters to control with which CWs are confronted, "facetanking" becomes the only option by default. Every class but CW and DC has very effective ways to close gaps quickly, and GWF, GF, and TR all have very easy ways to combat control attempts. To top it all off, Repel can't even be used as a positioning tool to buy time in melee since it outright fails so frequently now.

So no, it is not a reasonable expectation for CWs to be able to straight-up tank heavy melee hitters, but that's not what most people want. The main issue is CW being a class that relies heavily on controls (and has only one prone that isn't a Daily) and burst. The CW's brand of control is pretty weak except against DCs and other CWs; its burst isn't "bursty" enough to compensate for the lack of effective control and defenses against counter-control.

ripyourlipsoff · April 2014

vorphied wrote: »

Without going into excessive detail, the biggest problem seems to be that, due to the poor performance of non-proning controls and the number of hard counters to control with which CWs are confronted, "facetanking" becomes the only option by default. Every class but CW and DC has very effective ways to close gaps quickly, and GWF, GF, and TR all have very easy ways to combat control attempts. To top it all off, Repel can't even be used as a positioning tool to buy time in melee since it outright fails so frequently now.

So no, it is not a reasonable expectation for CWs to be able to straight-up tank heavy melee hitters, but that's not what most people want. The main issue is CW being a class that relies heavily on controls (and has only one prone that isn't a Daily) and burst. The CW's brand of control is pretty weak except against DCs and other CWs; its burst isn't "bursty" enough to compensate for the lack of effective control and defenses against counter-control.

Pretty much my experience also, I can play Shard and exploit any advantage I can find for a short time. But Shard is so bugged in not dropping, disappearing, moving toward a target and vanishing... HR grasping roots locking our abilities out over and over, then being prone and slowed on top of that and it makes for a ridiculous game play!

emilemo · April 2014

warpet wrote: »

u are ranged class gwf is not, u have real dodge gwf dose not, 1 your dodge is better then full stamina gwf sprint
i just dont get u guys your role in pvp is not to go on node and easy kill stealth tr,gf,gwf if cw do its role it is allways in top 3 places in pvp by score,kills and a lot of time way beter then some of so called op classes

Ive said this exact same thing many times. My destro GWF has been in so many pvp matches where some lost-in-space RANGED class comes down to the node ( in my MELEE range ) and then starts attacking. To which I respond with a silent WTF and promptly prone and kill it. "Utilize your range" - I say to them, stay away, make me leave the node to come after you. I'm not a Sent, I cant simply ignore you cause your damage is more than enough to finish me. If you kite me from max range not even a full stamina bar sprint will get me close enough to hit you. And there are vantage points, bridges, top spots where you can safely spend the time needed to kill/cc any unfortunate melee class on node. But no, you want to come down to me, live thru my prones, live thru my 20k + crit on average IBStrikes and if that not enough you want to have a casual counter to my freaking CLASS defining mechanics as well ? Sorry I have to resort to this, it really is not a thing I like to do but dang people shut up and LTP.

emilemo · April 2014

ripyourlipsoff wrote: »

Do you even read? We don't want to face tank anyone... We want our CCs to last as long as a prone, or have a way to getaway from the Unstoppable Melee, because right now you cannot! I don't see how you couldn't understand that in words we typed above?

Comprehension.

On a side note, why is it you choose to disparage me because you want to speculate I don't know how to play is rude.

Its called Unstoppable cause it cant be stopped, end of story ( yet a certain GF skill does stop it but whatever ). That being said its so easy to avoid its not even funny. Most GWFs hit it as soon as they can so it lasts so very little anyway. I play both GWF and a GF, they both can run away from any Unstop GWF while he lasts, on top of that Ive had every single class escape me on numerous occasions while im Unstoppable..why cant you ?

silverquick · April 2014

emilemo wrote: »

Its called Unstoppable cause it cant be stopped, end of story ( yet a certain GF skill does stop it but whatever ). That being said its so easy to avoid its not even funny. Most GWFs hit it as soon as they can so it lasts so very little anyway. I play both GWF and a GF, they both can run away from any Unstop GWF while he lasts, on top of that Ive had every single class escape me on numerous occasions while im Unstoppable..why cant you ?

Because YOURS actually works... so does your prones... so does your stuns.

NONE of mine work anymore... well ok maybe for half a second.

They've been nerfed into ground because someone just like you probably said it was "unfair" and "unbalanced"

Well now its the point I can't even play PvP anymore and be competetive.

So now... go stroke yourself off... all alone... Because I'm not there to be your kill count. You want to play... go play alone. And I can't see why any CW would even bother with it.

I expect mine to work... the same as yours.

Who the hell would want to play that kind of game.

izidius · April 2014

Take away unstoppable from GWF and give it to the CW.

melodywhr · April 2014

let's please keep this discussion light. if you wonder why so many threads get shut down, it's because they get out of hand and violate forum rule section I. respect each other and each others opinions please.

do not reply to this note. if you'd like to discuss forum rules or behavior, send me a PM. thanks.

ripyourlipsoff · April 2014

emilemo wrote: »

Ive said this exact same thing many times. My destro GWF has been in so many pvp matches where some lost-in-space RANGED class comes down to the node ( in my MELEE range ) and then starts attacking. To which I respond with a silent WTF and promptly prone and kill it. "Utilize your range" - I say to them, stay away, make me leave the node to come after you. I'm not a Sent, I cant simply ignore you cause your damage is more than enough to finish me. If you kite me from max range not even a full stamina bar sprint will get me close enough to hit you. And there are vantage points, bridges, top spots where you can safely spend the time needed to kill/cc any unfortunate melee class on node. But no, you want to come down to me, live thru my prones, live thru my 20k + crit on average IBStrikes and if that not enough you want to have a casual counter to my freaking CLASS defining mechanics as well ? Sorry I have to resort to this, it really is not a thing I like to do but dang people shut up and LTP.

Sounds to me GWF need more nerfs!

ripyourlipsoff · April 2014

emilemo wrote: »

Its called Unstoppable cause it cant be stopped, end of story ( yet a certain GF skill does stop it but whatever ). That being said its so easy to avoid its not even funny. Most GWFs hit it as soon as they can so it lasts so very little anyway. I play both GWF and a GF, they both can run away from any Unstop GWF while he lasts, on top of that Ive had every single class escape me on numerous occasions while im Unstoppable..why cant you ?

PLz tell me how a CW avoids Unstoppable?

CW counter to Unstoppable?

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