But this thread is over looking something - not every one has a vorpel - and not everyone has good gear - not everyone has the time to perfect the armor/weapons/enchants combos that help their play style. Not everyone enjoys PVP. There are a lot of players here who like to solo.
You've almost described me there and I'm not convinced that any of the changes will negatively affect the HR for solo play. Spilt shot at least is not a required skill on the live server, I've not used that for a long time and do just fine.
An argument could be made that the split shot nerf will make the class less fun to play for some, I know I certainly had fun when I used it at low levels one-shotting all the trash.
I can't comment on the new player experience or how I fare in Icewind Dale, I only just got a third boon this week. I can probably test both over the long weekend though.
Thank you, you make my point for me. If the HR has indeed been nerfed to "Balance" PVP, it has killed the HR in PVE.
You evidently don't play a ranger, as you have forgotten the 50% reduction to Stormstep action. You would also have tested the changes on the test server and found that it is now impossible to tackle solo PVE content with an HR. You would also know that amended HR no longer has a function in group content.
I do play a ranger, I'm not all that rich I use a lesser plaguefire and stacked power with my companion to around 7k with not so much of anything else. (13.6k GS) I did find that solo gameplay got slightly harder when I was using my build I usually use for PvP. A big reason was that I can't just spam split shot and not really have to do anything else. I then switched some things around changed some gear and changed some specs and found that foxes shift almost seems like a defensive ability now, to be used so to not take any damage from a bunch of enemys in AOE. I also found a great new combo for a build with the pathfinder using the new at-will, a build that worked in solo PvE as good if not better than my current settup and should hopefully work in PvP too.
I did not know stormstep action was affected by any nerf in this upcoming patch, I did however notice it's not currently working at all with disruptive shot which seems much more of a bug.
Hey guys, just wanted to drop in with some news and update changes.
We have been taking a long hard look at Hunter Rangers and where we want them to fall in our combat as well as how various players choose to experience them, and we have decided that we want to make some pretty big changes later on down the road. However we do not want these to be rushed changes to make Module 3, so we are going to be reducing the Split Shot damage reduction pretty heavily as well as leaving in all the other buffs we made.
I don't have much information on the bigger changes we want to make, but we definitely want to provide better tools to facilitate playing as a striker, as well as giving more options for rangers who would like to prefer one stance rather than always weaving back and forth. In addition, we do want to provide a tree that can preserve the current play style of weaving Melee and Ranged powers together so that there will be a full suite of options to play a Ranger any way you want to.
I want to stress again that these are big fundamental changes that will be happening farther down the road, and in the short term we are going to just be rolling back some of the damage reduction on split shot while leaving in the buffs and adjustments to other powers.
The change is as listed below:
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The damage reduction on this power has been readjusted. This power now has a total reduction of about 25% (down from 48%).
Nice, so we are looking at HR's actually being seriously buffed in Mod3- split shot only being taken down 25% + all of the other buffs (especially a cc/damage immune fox shift) is pretty big. The class will be right there with GWFs and TRs in pvp (if it wasnt already) and hopefully will have more relevance in dungeons.
EDIT: It "might" be a good time for people to make well-considered and substantiated suggestions concerns how the class could be fundamentally changed.
The change is as listed below:
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The damage reduction on this power has been readjusted. This power now has a total reduction of about 25% (down from 48%).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Now that is alot more reasonable.
Though Im not sure if I should be scared or excited about those big changes down the road.
Well this is an excellent job. Hunter Rangers have been one of the most balanced classes in my opinion since thier introduction.
Hey guys, just wanted to drop in with some news and update changes.
We have been taking a long hard look at Hunter Rangers and where we want them to fall in our combat as well as how various players choose to experience them, and we have decided that we want to make some pretty big changes later on down the road. However we do not want these to be rushed changes to make Module 3, so we are going to be reducing the Split Shot damage reduction pretty heavily as well as leaving in all the other buffs we made.
I don't have much information on the bigger changes we want to make, but we definitely want to provide better tools to facilitate playing as a striker, as well as giving more options for rangers who would like to prefer one stance rather than always weaving back and forth. In addition, we do want to provide a tree that can preserve the current play style of weaving Melee and Ranged powers together so that there will be a full suite of options to play a Ranger any way you want to.
I want to stress again that these are big fundamental changes that will be happening farther down the road, and in the short term we are going to just be rolling back some of the damage reduction on split shot while leaving in the buffs and adjustments to other powers.
The change is as listed below:
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The damage reduction on this power has been readjusted. This power now has a total reduction of about 25% (down from 48%).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
That is simply fabulous news. Thank you devs for listening to all the feedback given over these last few weeks. Now for those upcoming changes later down the road. This is also a no brainer. You make archery a pure ranged tree with NO buffs at all to anything melee. You make combat a pure melee tree with no buffs to anything at all ranged. You then dump the entire concept of the travesty that is the nature tree because it's just bad and you make the bottom tree the ranged/melee combo tree. For all those folks who wanted to be a buff bot, just put in a druid class!! BUt...not before a Paladin class ok? Just so we're clear on that. Paly first!!
I don't have much information on the bigger changes we want to make, but we definitely want to provide better tools to facilitate playing as a striker, as well as giving more options for rangers who would like to prefer one stance rather than always weaving back and forth. In addition, we do want to provide a tree that can preserve the current play style of weaving Melee and Ranged powers together so that there will be a full suite of options to play a Ranger any way you want to.
I'm glad to hear that.
It didn't really make sense to me that the class feature is the ability to use two different types of weapons at once, yet we don't really have a true hybrid feat path. At the same time, having ranged and melee encounters/at-wills tied together really limits one's ability to use one weapon for dps and the other for support/utility/defense. If we had the ability to choose our melee/ranged abilities separately and the trees were rearranged to melee, ranged, and hybrid I think the class would feel a lot better. You could also have encounters which grant a passive bonus while off cooldown (maybe via feats) to make them less spammy and support people who want to play primarily with one weapon.
I dunno, I see a lot of comments from those much more experienced than I am with party play ( I soloed my way to 60 with my HR).
Split shot..well, is the only way I have to keep from getting creamed most times as my char is set up as a sniper - maxing damage / armor penetration and crit: which leaves my def rather weak. Switching to melee is rather poor for me as my hps go down almost as fast as the mobs I am swarmed with. Fire mobs on this most recent event killed me almost instantly as soon as they spawned.
My normal attacks when faced with 1 'boss" - focused shot on him ,Stun daily (to prevent his spell hitting me or jumping on me)- thorns, run, split the sky, run, split shot (tap the key - low damage but hits the little spawns), run, rain of arrows on the big guy, run....repeat from first thorns. So far it has worked.
Of course if I see a bunch of little ones then it is split shot , thorns, split shot lighting and run. Sadly running is rather pathetic because many mobs can run after me (and catch me) faster than I can run out of their reach- then I have to melee fight/pot like crazy and respawn.
Bosses? Well, seems the thorns don't slow them, let alone stop them, NO attack does that that I have found.
I guess some might say the split shot is overpowered (which isn't true as far as I have found) but all my other fast attack choices for area attacking or even single shooting don't seem to do any real damage to any mobs even 10 levels lower than myself. So I end up with only one attack I CAN use. I have tried all the green choices avail, lighting shot with it's aoe is barely better than fast shot.
Changes I would make:
I like the 'poison arrow idea - make it a green option not encounter and make it so it affects bosses!! Obviously it won't be that strong of an attack as none of the other single shots with the exception of aimed shot hit that hard but perhaps it could help interrupt the boss/targets casting?
Increase the speed / strength of the other green choice arrows. rapid shot even maxed is a laugh even against single lowbie mobs (hit em twice with split shot and dead before they can get to me or hit em 3 times and die to them....
I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do their job, Devs and playtesters are doing a great job of trying to make this a fun game for EVERYONE, just a simple reminder about the man, boy and donkey...(can't please everyone all the time)
When it comes to pve vs pvp I don't have a problem, actually think it is a good idea for areas to be set up that are pvp wide. (can only be safe from aoe attacks from fellow team mates) and if someone in team is being a jerk and you can't handle it anymore - you can drop from team (or kick them) and attack or send them on their way. (don't have to attack them, but if you kicked them they are no longer granted your team protections.) Sure there will be the haters that camp focus points, but most of those run solo - a good team can take them on just like Boss hunting. (shades of pwi) and guards can be set to auto defend around the campfires (good luck being a 'killer' and respawning!!!) (which means they get the option to respawn where they die...(have to wait for the ones they attacked to leave) or get kicked from zone which would reset Killer tag. *also an option"Killer/Bounty" tag for anyone that attacked you (deadly enemy) ..you are out fighting in pvp area and auto hit them if you aoe and they are in range*
Just some thoughts and thanks for the hard efforts many have put into this game to make it fun.
OH and one other thing - whats with crafting? Can't craft your way past level 15 without spending AD or zen to buy the mid line workers? an investment of 18 hrs x 4 x 4 x 4 and I cant raise assistant to 'skill'?? Cheaper to buy the GRANDMASTER of the skill to be able to make all the things in the craft (other than the 3rd tier stuff you need buy the tools to have a chance to make..?) No wonder we get spammed by cash sellers...
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited April 2014
Would like to see more feedback on electric arrow. It's rather annoying to depend on one at-will for ranged AoE, then another one for AoE in melee. Simply messes up utility.
Thank you for listening to our concerns regarding Split Shot. This may sound greedy, but will Electric Arrow get another buff to bring it back in line with the newly less-nerfed split shot? If it's up for discussion, I would prefer a 25% chance for a stun/disrupt or some type of CC instead of just more damage.
Well, it's **** near impossible for players to say what's imbalanced, as I'm pretty sure the devs have tools they use to determine that, but as far as I know, the devs balance skills mostly on trying to get players to use the lesser used skills.
Like when a restaurant offers a 'chef's special', it's really just food they need to move.
It's not that split shot's damage was way out of whack, it's that the other skills were't being used. Now you may see it as a split shot nerf, but it's actually an 'other skill buff.'
*Legit Community*
Heather - Ranger
James - Paladin
Jet - Warlock
Royal - Cleric
Gray - Rogue
Red - Wizard
Ios - Barbarian
In addition, we do want to provide a tree that can preserve the current play style of weaving Melee and Ranged powers together so that there will be a full suite of options to play a Ranger any way you want to.
I weave melee/range a lot as my HR, but I'm spec'd in the range tree, where the weaving really gives me maneuverability with rush/escape and enemy slow with hindering strikes to break up a packs. That way I keep most of them away from me most of this time for safety/ranged damage. On live, my combat loop looks like: ranged encounters, movement into melee, debuff, strike, out of melee with rush, ranged encounters + at wills. This is really fun and breaks up packs of enemies well. I get to have this battlefield mobility that feels really unique to HR (imo) and is great solo and in groups (well, at least for me.. dunno about my party members). So my melee becomes a tool to actually keep most of the mobs at a distance, even though I'm spec'd range and probably do most of my damage ranged. Selfishly, I'd hate to see this kind of build changed by futzing with the mechanics too much, that said...
Your current changes to HR on preview has been really interesting for me. I'm now using binding arrow/oakskin--great buff to oak skin btw!--to provide my HR healing for the harder hitting mobs of icewind dale and my at-wills are now split shot/aimed shot rather than rapid shot/split shot I had before. My combat loops looks similar with rush/escape and hindering shot/strikes as my other two encounters, but now using oak skin and aimed shot changes the pace of combat. I open with aimed shot, then proceed to use all of my damage to kill one of the high HP or hard hitting mobs, and then use movement and oak skin to give me little breathers to recoup. It's definitely more challenging than using my HR on live, but it feels more dynamic and tense.
What I don't want to see is to have weaving become a way of micromanaging buffs or other effects to do decent damage (like the Serpent class feature). That kind of efficiency chasing micromanagement I find annoying and boring. I'd rather be reacting with encounters/class abilities to a dynamic battlefield rather than watching for UI icons to change.
As for Pathfinder, I really like the idea of ambush/bear trap, but it just ends up being a real pain to use in fluid combat situations and isn't worth giving up my mobility or other damage skills for. Maybe it's better in groups though. And for the most part, the class features don't seem that appealing.
The change is as listed below:
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The damage reduction on this power has been readjusted. This power now has a total reduction of about 25% (down from 48%).
But yay! It'll be interesting to see where you guys take hunter ranger in the future, I look forward to it. ^_^
I dunno, I see a lot of comments from those much more experienced than I am with party play ( I soloed my way to 60 with my HR).
Split shot..well, is the only way I have to keep from getting creamed most times as my char is set up as a sniper - maxing damage / armor penetration and crit: which leaves my def rather weak. Switching to melee is rather poor for me as my hps go down almost as fast as the mobs I am swarmed with. Fire mobs on this most recent event killed me almost instantly as soon as they spawned.
My normal attacks when faced with 1 'boss" - focused shot on him ,Stun daily (to prevent his spell hitting me or jumping on me)- thorns, run, split the sky, run, split shot (tap the key - low damage but hits the little spawns), run, rain of arrows on the big guy, run....repeat from first thorns. So far it has worked.
Of course if I see a bunch of little ones then it is split shot , thorns, split shot lighting and run. Sadly running is rather pathetic because many mobs can run after me (and catch me) faster than I can run out of their reach- then I have to melee fight/pot like crazy and respawn.
Bosses? Well, seems the thorns don't slow them, let alone stop them, NO attack does that that I have found.
I guess some might say the split shot is overpowered (which isn't true as far as I have found) but all my other fast attack choices for area attacking or even single shooting don't seem to do any real damage to any mobs even 10 levels lower than myself. So I end up with only one attack I CAN use. I have tried all the green choices avail, lighting shot with it's aoe is barely better than fast shot.
Changes I would make:
I like the 'poison arrow idea - make it a green option not encounter and make it so it affects bosses!! Obviously it won't be that strong of an attack as none of the other single shots with the exception of aimed shot hit that hard but perhaps it could help interrupt the boss/targets casting?
Increase the speed / strength of the other green choice arrows. rapid shot even maxed is a laugh even against single lowbie mobs (hit em twice with split shot and dead before they can get to me or hit em 3 times and die to them....
I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do their job, Devs and playtesters are doing a great job of trying to make this a fun game for EVERYONE, just a simple reminder about the man, boy and donkey...(can't please everyone all the time)
When it comes to pve vs pvp I don't have a problem, actually think it is a good idea for areas to be set up that are pvp wide. (can only be safe from aoe attacks from fellow team mates) and if someone in team is being a jerk and you can't handle it anymore - you can drop from team (or kick them) and attack or send them on their way. (don't have to attack them, but if you kicked them they are no longer granted your team protections.) Sure there will be the haters that camp focus points, but most of those run solo - a good team can take them on just like Boss hunting. (shades of pwi) and guards can be set to auto defend around the campfires (good luck being a 'killer' and respawning!!!) (which means they get the option to respawn where they die...(have to wait for the ones they attacked to leave) or get kicked from zone which would reset Killer tag. *also an option"Killer/Bounty" tag for anyone that attacked you (deadly enemy) ..you are out fighting in pvp area and auto hit them if you aoe and they are in range*
Just some thoughts and thanks for the hard efforts many have put into this game to make it fun.
OH and one other thing - whats with crafting? Can't craft your way past level 15 without spending AD or zen to buy the mid line workers? an investment of 18 hrs x 4 x 4 x 4 and I cant raise assistant to 'skill'?? Cheaper to buy the GRANDMASTER of the skill to be able to make all the things in the craft (other than the 3rd tier stuff you need buy the tools to have a chance to make..?) No wonder we get spammed by cash sellers...
I really want you to try this:
Practice close fighting. First with practice dummies. Then with weak mobs. Try getting mobs low on health and then jumping in to melee them. Try putting marauders(q)/fox(e)/constricting(r) in your encounter slots. When you get a small mob down to about 1/2 health with split shot (or whatever), tab into combat mode, put your mouse over one of the mob and hit q-e-r in fast succession. After steel breeze, tab back into ranged and hit q again and you'll be at a safe distance to hammer them with split shot again. The cool thing about being able to switch back and forth is that you increase your damage, your determination (how much you can dodge), your action points, and most of all, while the ranged encounters are in cool down the combat ones are ready. And vice versa. Play any way you want, but I really think the strength of this class is its versatility and by not using half of what you are able to do, people really limit themselves.
What I don't want to see is to have weaving become a way of micromanaging buffs or other effects to do decent damage (like the Serpent class feature). That kind of efficiency chasing micromanagement I find annoying and boring.
This I agree with.
I've also spec'd for range but quite like that we have melee options available. Choosing skills is a bit hit and miss, there are some ranged abilities I really like but they come with crappy melee versions or vice versa.
* I've been using binding arrow for a long time because I like the strong grapsing roots for stand-off (when it works), I used oakskin but never really knew if it did anything useful.
* I long avoided Fox shift because I didn't think much of Fox's cunning on paper, I've since discovered it's a free aimed shot in many cases.
* It's a similar story for Hawkeye, which I use with the feat for a 50% chance of strong grapsing roots. Hawk shot is pretty meh, I use it as any opener for a free kill on ranged trash, beyond that it's largely useless because of it's damage drop-off. I keep wondering if this is a waste since I only play solo, but there really isn't anything else that appeals.
It's going to be interesting to see what these "big fundamental changes" bring to the class.
The change is as listed below:
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The damage reduction on this power has been readjusted. This power now has a total reduction of about 25% (down from 48%).
Hmph, and everyone yelled at me for saying the exact same thing lol i already knew this was gonna happen everyone was in such a tantrumatic state that they just saw what could have been happening and panicked. So I posted a bunch of times big whoop was only to calm people down.
Practice close fighting. First with practice dummies. Then with weak mobs. Try getting mobs low on health and then jumping in to melee them. Try putting marauders(q)/fox(e)/constricting(r) in your encounter slots. When you get a small mob down to about 1/2 health with split shot (or whatever), tab into combat mode, put your mouse over one of the mob and hit q-e-r in fast succession. After steel breeze, tab back into ranged and hit q again and you'll be at a safe distance to hammer them with split shot again. The cool thing about being able to switch back and forth is that you increase your damage, your determination (how much you can dodge), your action points, and most of all, while the ranged encounters are in cool down the combat ones are ready. And vice versa. Play any way you want, but I really think the strength of this class is its versatility and by not using half of what you are able to do, people really limit themselves.
Thanks for the advice. I have been trying melee a bit more and now I got a few more (better) pieces of gear, it seems I do a little more damage. Still partial to the 2 aoes and rain for q e r though: they do a better job on the spawns that are out of reach - moving from target to target is SOOO slow just as trying to run from them is. In real combat- you SPRINT (faster than normal running)(been there, done that, retired from service). Dodge is a laugh because with it you have no control over direction.
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scoutmasterjMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 101Arc User
Hey guys, just wanted to drop in with some news and update changes.
I don't have much information on the bigger changes we want to make, but we definitely want to provide better tools to facilitate playing as a striker, as well as giving more options for rangers who would like to prefer one stance rather than always weaving back and forth. In addition, we do want to provide a tree that can preserve the current play style of weaving Melee and Ranged powers together so that there will be a full suite of options to play a Ranger any way you want to.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
I think this is what we've been asking for all along - you vision for what you want the Ranger to be - so thanks for providing that. I also think that most people also see the Ranger as a Striker, so that is great. I look forward to the changes. Thanks for listening.
Thanks for the advice. I have been trying melee a bit more and now I got a few more (better) pieces of gear, it seems I do a little more damage. Still partial to the 2 aoes and rain for q e r though: they do a better job on the spawns that are out of reach - moving from target to target is SOOO slow just as trying to run from them is. In real combat- you SPRINT (faster than normal running)(been there, done that, retired from service). Dodge is a laugh because with it you have no control over direction.
Your so welcome lol. Each has their own style and what is fun for them, I only make suggestions to try to enhance the enjoyment of others. For moving from target to target you do have marauders rush as an excellent gap closer on encounter. Aimed strike is a nice medium distance melee at-will that does some damage over time.
As far as not being able to control where you dodge to (what direction), I am little puzzled by that. That is something you really want to have control over. Using literal dodge (shift key) you'll dodge in the direction indicated by what letter key your pressing (a/w/s/d/) just like walking. The marauders escape dodge you can control: take a couple steps in the direction you want (so your characters already facing that direction) then turn the character around to face in the opposite direction ad hit marauders escape, you'll fly backwards in the direction you were previously walking. Once your good at it, its as simple as just turning your character opposite the direction you want it to go in and hitting q.
As far as actual DODGE, I unbound it from shift and bound it to the right mouse button. My first at will is on my left mouse button and my second at will is keybound to both mouse buttons being pushed at the same time. For me this makes it a lot easier to dodge and spam dodge/at-will 1 at the same time. So hitting the a button while rapidly clicking both the left and right mouse buttons I am constantly dodging in a lateral direction while firing away between each dodge or two. Doing that kind of randomly in conjunction with fox cunning, constricting arrow, disruptive shot makes it a lot easier to hold a node in pvp for a longer period of time. Also, in combat mode, fox shift isnt used up unless you hit something with it, yet the animation plays...that can make it a little interesting for people trying to target you.
You should try gwf sometime, it has some of the best gap closers in the game.
The change is as listed below:
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The damage reduction on this power has been readjusted. This power now has a total reduction of about 25% (down from 48%).
Forgive me for not applauding. This is still unnecessary tampering.
Despite asking repeatedly, we have had no official explanation of why the Dev's feel this class needs these nerfs at all.
I believe the class still remains unplayable in PVE, Despite all improbable claims otherwise.
A nerf of 25% is still ridiculously high IMHO. Perhaps if there was a reasonable explanation for it, I might consider it differently, but as it is..
Thank you for listening to our concerns regarding Split Shot. This may sound greedy, but will Electric Arrow get another buff to bring it back in line with the newly less-nerfed split shot? If it's up for discussion, I would prefer a 25% chance for a stun/disrupt or some type of CC instead of just more damage.
It's definitely not greedy, it's rational. I think that Stormwardens should be rewarded for being Stormwardens, and they are in some ways, but all of their powers should reward them in some way and give them something that isn't redundant, and that means electric shot should be better than split shot which everyone can get. Otherwise you still have the same problem, one of your paragon powers is worthless and you get an apparent Stormwarden who doesn't really shoot with electricity. Though it does have clear the ground, and the improvements to that are exciting because it will work so well with twin blade storm. But still, what if you use more archery than melee?
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
edited April 2014
I think a lot of our AoE problems will be solved by making the radius of Rain of Arrows larger. Not in the same line as Thorn Ward or Split the Sky mind you, but enough to hit multiple targets even if your aim isn't spot-on.
I don't think the 25% nerf to Split Shot is enough to make me use it again. I've been weening myself off that ability in the past week and I'm mostly fine without it. Been chugging healing pots like mad though. I do hope Electric Shot is buffed some more, it has never looked appealing enough to even spec into for me as an Archer.
I'm really looking forward to the reworking of the trees though. Would be nice to see straight acher/melee and then hybrid for third. Burn the Nature spec, burn it with fire! Some feats in the Archery tree could do with some serious reworking to make it more focused on bow use. Would also be nice to see the Split the Sky feat just incorporated into the power without having to spend the extra points on it.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Forgive me for not applauding. This is still unnecessary tampering.
Despite asking repeatedly, we have had no official explanation of why the Dev's feel this class needs these nerfs at all.
I believe the class still remains unplayable in PVE, Despite all improbable claims otherwise.
A nerf of 25% is still ridiculously high IMHO. Perhaps if there was a reasonable explanation for it, I might consider it differently, but as it is..
The point that they are trying to do here is fairly obvious. They don't want it to just be a one button single power class. Split shot hit much more dps than any other choice other than aimed shot, you could see it was OP from as soon as you got it which is as soon as you make your HR. 25% isn't at all that much of a bad nerf, if ~10k is the current someone can hit without a vorpal then I think 7.5k sounds more reasonable from this power.
The entire point is that this will mean people will want to use rotations of the 6 encounters they can get as a HR instead of just spamming split shot. A 25% decrease of split shot hardly nerfs the class in comparison to the buffs to other powers, not to mention the fact Crush has already told us he has other plans he will be working on for a later update which he doesn't want to push live this time around.
So a lesser nerf to a class that's not wanted in top tier dungeons already, and boosts that don't equal to what we can already do? YAY!!! Am I seriously supossed to be excited that we will be reworked for the expansion after this one?
The point that they are trying to do here is fairly obvious. They don't want it to just be a one button single power class. Split shot hit much more dps than any other choice other than aimed shot, you could see it was OP from as soon as you got it which is as soon as you make your HR. 25% isn't at all that much of a bad nerf, if ~10k is the current someone can hit without a vorpal then I think 7.5k sounds more reasonable from this power.
The entire point is that this will mean people will want to use rotations of the 6 encounters they can get as a HR instead of just spamming split shot. A 25% decrease of split shot hardly nerfs the class in comparison to the buffs to other powers, not to mention the fact Crush has already told us he has other plans he will be working on for a later update which he doesn't want to push live this time around.
Actually, it won't be "obvious" until the devs make it so. Anything else is just conjecture and speculation.
Perhaps we should ignore the Rogue's reliance on Duelist's Flurry, or the GWF's reliance of Weapon Master's Strike....
As for the buffs to other powers: A polished <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, is still a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>..
I'll wait for the Dev's to comment with their version, rather than suffer your speculation.
Actually, it won't be "obvious" until the devs make it so. Anything else is just conjecture and speculation.
Perhaps we should ignore the Rogue's reliance on Duelist's Flurry, or the GWF's reliance of Weapon Master's Strike....
As for the buffs to other powers: A polished <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, is still a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>..
I'll wait for the Dev's to comment with their version, rather than suffer your speculation.
you just have to use your imagination lol, what he said is perfectly reasonable. Honestly you should be ignoring stupid people who dont want your hr its thier loss.
And really, weapon masters strike? Yeah its a good ability but its not thier best move not by a long shot and wms doesnt hit anywhere near as hard as a split shot from the same gs and enchant.
I've never thought of the hr as a "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" or "unplayable" in any sense; I've always had fun with all 3 of mine all of which play completely different. The problem is everybody's a critic and most aren't very good critics either; thusly is the age of the internet.
The hr is what you choose to make of it: it can be dps, it can be support, it can be a tankish class with fast and numerous attacks with great evasion for all three it can also easily mix these roles too which is something no other class can really do. It's really up to you to choose what the hr does well; there isnt a clear cut way to play which is why there is no real cookie cutter build which is applause worthy imo.
They arent likely to just come out and tell you what to do with it; figure it out, it is not that hard. It's pretty bad that people need to hear what you have to do with it from a dev and besides they are still figuring it out so It's not like they have a clear HD 1080p picture of the hr's future either if they did they wouldnt need our feedback so basically speculation is all anyone has and even if they did would you really be able to accept thier answer?
maybe if electric shot was slightly faster people would also want to use it. It takes around 1.6 seconds from activation to first fire again to second and again from second to third maybe cut that time in half or by 30%.
Comments
An argument could be made that the split shot nerf will make the class less fun to play for some, I know I certainly had fun when I used it at low levels one-shotting all the trash.
I can't comment on the new player experience or how I fare in Icewind Dale, I only just got a third boon this week. I can probably test both over the long weekend though.
I do play a ranger, I'm not all that rich I use a lesser plaguefire and stacked power with my companion to around 7k with not so much of anything else. (13.6k GS) I did find that solo gameplay got slightly harder when I was using my build I usually use for PvP. A big reason was that I can't just spam split shot and not really have to do anything else. I then switched some things around changed some gear and changed some specs and found that foxes shift almost seems like a defensive ability now, to be used so to not take any damage from a bunch of enemys in AOE. I also found a great new combo for a build with the pathfinder using the new at-will, a build that worked in solo PvE as good if not better than my current settup and should hopefully work in PvP too.
I did not know stormstep action was affected by any nerf in this upcoming patch, I did however notice it's not currently working at all with disruptive shot which seems much more of a bug.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's
We have been taking a long hard look at Hunter Rangers and where we want them to fall in our combat as well as how various players choose to experience them, and we have decided that we want to make some pretty big changes later on down the road. However we do not want these to be rushed changes to make Module 3, so we are going to be reducing the Split Shot damage reduction pretty heavily as well as leaving in all the other buffs we made.
I don't have much information on the bigger changes we want to make, but we definitely want to provide better tools to facilitate playing as a striker, as well as giving more options for rangers who would like to prefer one stance rather than always weaving back and forth. In addition, we do want to provide a tree that can preserve the current play style of weaving Melee and Ranged powers together so that there will be a full suite of options to play a Ranger any way you want to.
I want to stress again that these are big fundamental changes that will be happening farther down the road, and in the short term we are going to just be rolling back some of the damage reduction on split shot while leaving in the buffs and adjustments to other powers.
The change is as listed below:
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The damage reduction on this power has been readjusted. This power now has a total reduction of about 25% (down from 48%).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Wow , you are going to be Mr popular .
Clap clap clap
We need a good striker option
OBS: Stormstep Action is not working at all with Disruptive Shot at preview, just a heads up.
EDIT: It "might" be a good time for people to make well-considered and substantiated suggestions concerns how the class could be fundamentally changed.
Jugger Conq GF
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Though Im not sure if I should be scared or excited about those big changes down the road.
Well this is an excellent job. Hunter Rangers have been one of the most balanced classes in my opinion since thier introduction.
That is simply fabulous news. Thank you devs for listening to all the feedback given over these last few weeks. Now for those upcoming changes later down the road. This is also a no brainer. You make archery a pure ranged tree with NO buffs at all to anything melee. You make combat a pure melee tree with no buffs to anything at all ranged. You then dump the entire concept of the travesty that is the nature tree because it's just bad and you make the bottom tree the ranged/melee combo tree. For all those folks who wanted to be a buff bot, just put in a druid class!! BUt...not before a Paladin class ok? Just so we're clear on that. Paly first!!
It didn't really make sense to me that the class feature is the ability to use two different types of weapons at once, yet we don't really have a true hybrid feat path. At the same time, having ranged and melee encounters/at-wills tied together really limits one's ability to use one weapon for dps and the other for support/utility/defense. If we had the ability to choose our melee/ranged abilities separately and the trees were rearranged to melee, ranged, and hybrid I think the class would feel a lot better. You could also have encounters which grant a passive bonus while off cooldown (maybe via feats) to make them less spammy and support people who want to play primarily with one weapon.
Split shot..well, is the only way I have to keep from getting creamed most times as my char is set up as a sniper - maxing damage / armor penetration and crit: which leaves my def rather weak. Switching to melee is rather poor for me as my hps go down almost as fast as the mobs I am swarmed with. Fire mobs on this most recent event killed me almost instantly as soon as they spawned.
My normal attacks when faced with 1 'boss" - focused shot on him ,Stun daily (to prevent his spell hitting me or jumping on me)- thorns, run, split the sky, run, split shot (tap the key - low damage but hits the little spawns), run, rain of arrows on the big guy, run....repeat from first thorns. So far it has worked.
Of course if I see a bunch of little ones then it is split shot , thorns, split shot lighting and run. Sadly running is rather pathetic because many mobs can run after me (and catch me) faster than I can run out of their reach- then I have to melee fight/pot like crazy and respawn.
Bosses? Well, seems the thorns don't slow them, let alone stop them, NO attack does that that I have found.
I guess some might say the split shot is overpowered (which isn't true as far as I have found) but all my other fast attack choices for area attacking or even single shooting don't seem to do any real damage to any mobs even 10 levels lower than myself. So I end up with only one attack I CAN use. I have tried all the green choices avail, lighting shot with it's aoe is barely better than fast shot.
Changes I would make:
I like the 'poison arrow idea - make it a green option not encounter and make it so it affects bosses!! Obviously it won't be that strong of an attack as none of the other single shots with the exception of aimed shot hit that hard but perhaps it could help interrupt the boss/targets casting?
Increase the speed / strength of the other green choice arrows. rapid shot even maxed is a laugh even against single lowbie mobs (hit em twice with split shot and dead before they can get to me or hit em 3 times and die to them....
I'm not trying to tell anyone how to do their job, Devs and playtesters are doing a great job of trying to make this a fun game for EVERYONE, just a simple reminder about the man, boy and donkey...(can't please everyone all the time)
When it comes to pve vs pvp I don't have a problem, actually think it is a good idea for areas to be set up that are pvp wide. (can only be safe from aoe attacks from fellow team mates) and if someone in team is being a jerk and you can't handle it anymore - you can drop from team (or kick them) and attack or send them on their way. (don't have to attack them, but if you kicked them they are no longer granted your team protections.) Sure there will be the haters that camp focus points, but most of those run solo - a good team can take them on just like Boss hunting. (shades of pwi) and guards can be set to auto defend around the campfires (good luck being a 'killer' and respawning!!!) (which means they get the option to respawn where they die...(have to wait for the ones they attacked to leave) or get kicked from zone which would reset Killer tag. *also an option"Killer/Bounty" tag for anyone that attacked you (deadly enemy) ..you are out fighting in pvp area and auto hit them if you aoe and they are in range*
Just some thoughts and thanks for the hard efforts many have put into this game to make it fun.
OH and one other thing - whats with crafting? Can't craft your way past level 15 without spending AD or zen to buy the mid line workers? an investment of 18 hrs x 4 x 4 x 4 and I cant raise assistant to 'skill'?? Cheaper to buy the GRANDMASTER of the skill to be able to make all the things in the craft (other than the 3rd tier stuff you need buy the tools to have a chance to make..?) No wonder we get spammed by cash sellers...
Like when a restaurant offers a 'chef's special', it's really just food they need to move.
It's not that split shot's damage was way out of whack, it's that the other skills were't being used. Now you may see it as a split shot nerf, but it's actually an 'other skill buff.'
Heather - Ranger
James - Paladin
Jet - Warlock
Royal - Cleric
Gray - Rogue
Red - Wizard
Ios - Barbarian
I weave melee/range a lot as my HR, but I'm spec'd in the range tree, where the weaving really gives me maneuverability with rush/escape and enemy slow with hindering strikes to break up a packs. That way I keep most of them away from me most of this time for safety/ranged damage. On live, my combat loop looks like: ranged encounters, movement into melee, debuff, strike, out of melee with rush, ranged encounters + at wills. This is really fun and breaks up packs of enemies well. I get to have this battlefield mobility that feels really unique to HR (imo) and is great solo and in groups (well, at least for me.. dunno about my party members). So my melee becomes a tool to actually keep most of the mobs at a distance, even though I'm spec'd range and probably do most of my damage ranged. Selfishly, I'd hate to see this kind of build changed by futzing with the mechanics too much, that said...
Your current changes to HR on preview has been really interesting for me. I'm now using binding arrow/oakskin--great buff to oak skin btw!--to provide my HR healing for the harder hitting mobs of icewind dale and my at-wills are now split shot/aimed shot rather than rapid shot/split shot I had before. My combat loops looks similar with rush/escape and hindering shot/strikes as my other two encounters, but now using oak skin and aimed shot changes the pace of combat. I open with aimed shot, then proceed to use all of my damage to kill one of the high HP or hard hitting mobs, and then use movement and oak skin to give me little breathers to recoup. It's definitely more challenging than using my HR on live, but it feels more dynamic and tense.
What I don't want to see is to have weaving become a way of micromanaging buffs or other effects to do decent damage (like the Serpent class feature). That kind of efficiency chasing micromanagement I find annoying and boring. I'd rather be reacting with encounters/class abilities to a dynamic battlefield rather than watching for UI icons to change.
As for Pathfinder, I really like the idea of ambush/bear trap, but it just ends up being a real pain to use in fluid combat situations and isn't worth giving up my mobility or other damage skills for. Maybe it's better in groups though. And for the most part, the class features don't seem that appealing.
But yay!
I really want you to try this:
Practice close fighting. First with practice dummies. Then with weak mobs. Try getting mobs low on health and then jumping in to melee them. Try putting marauders(q)/fox(e)/constricting(r) in your encounter slots. When you get a small mob down to about 1/2 health with split shot (or whatever), tab into combat mode, put your mouse over one of the mob and hit q-e-r in fast succession. After steel breeze, tab back into ranged and hit q again and you'll be at a safe distance to hammer them with split shot again. The cool thing about being able to switch back and forth is that you increase your damage, your determination (how much you can dodge), your action points, and most of all, while the ranged encounters are in cool down the combat ones are ready. And vice versa. Play any way you want, but I really think the strength of this class is its versatility and by not using half of what you are able to do, people really limit themselves.
Jugger Conq GF
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I've also spec'd for range but quite like that we have melee options available. Choosing skills is a bit hit and miss, there are some ranged abilities I really like but they come with crappy melee versions or vice versa.
* I've been using binding arrow for a long time because I like the strong grapsing roots for stand-off (when it works), I used oakskin but never really knew if it did anything useful.
* I long avoided Fox shift because I didn't think much of Fox's cunning on paper, I've since discovered it's a free aimed shot in many cases.
* It's a similar story for Hawkeye, which I use with the feat for a 50% chance of strong grapsing roots. Hawk shot is pretty meh, I use it as any opener for a free kill on ranged trash, beyond that it's largely useless because of it's damage drop-off. I keep wondering if this is a waste since I only play solo, but there really isn't anything else that appeals.
It's going to be interesting to see what these "big fundamental changes" bring to the class.
Hunter Ranger: Split Shot: The damage reduction on this power has been readjusted. This power now has a total reduction of about 25% (down from 48%).
Hmph, and everyone yelled at me for saying the exact same thing lol i already knew this was gonna happen everyone was in such a tantrumatic state that they just saw what could have been happening and panicked. So I posted a bunch of times big whoop
thanks gentleman.
Thanks for the advice. I have been trying melee a bit more and now I got a few more (better) pieces of gear, it seems I do a little more damage. Still partial to the 2 aoes and rain for q e r though: they do a better job on the spawns that are out of reach - moving from target to target is SOOO slow just as trying to run from them is. In real combat- you SPRINT (faster than normal running)(been there, done that, retired from service). Dodge is a laugh because with it you have no control over direction.
I think this is what we've been asking for all along - you vision for what you want the Ranger to be - so thanks for providing that. I also think that most people also see the Ranger as a Striker, so that is great. I look forward to the changes. Thanks for listening.
Your so welcome lol. Each has their own style and what is fun for them, I only make suggestions to try to enhance the enjoyment of others. For moving from target to target you do have marauders rush as an excellent gap closer on encounter. Aimed strike is a nice medium distance melee at-will that does some damage over time.
As far as not being able to control where you dodge to (what direction), I am little puzzled by that. That is something you really want to have control over. Using literal dodge (shift key) you'll dodge in the direction indicated by what letter key your pressing (a/w/s/d/) just like walking. The marauders escape dodge you can control: take a couple steps in the direction you want (so your characters already facing that direction) then turn the character around to face in the opposite direction ad hit marauders escape, you'll fly backwards in the direction you were previously walking. Once your good at it, its as simple as just turning your character opposite the direction you want it to go in and hitting q.
As far as actual DODGE, I unbound it from shift and bound it to the right mouse button. My first at will is on my left mouse button and my second at will is keybound to both mouse buttons being pushed at the same time. For me this makes it a lot easier to dodge and spam dodge/at-will 1 at the same time. So hitting the a button while rapidly clicking both the left and right mouse buttons I am constantly dodging in a lateral direction while firing away between each dodge or two. Doing that kind of randomly in conjunction with fox cunning, constricting arrow, disruptive shot makes it a lot easier to hold a node in pvp for a longer period of time. Also, in combat mode, fox shift isnt used up unless you hit something with it, yet the animation plays...that can make it a little interesting for people trying to target you.
You should try gwf sometime, it has some of the best gap closers in the game.
Jugger Conq GF
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Forgive me for not applauding. This is still unnecessary tampering.
Despite asking repeatedly, we have had no official explanation of why the Dev's feel this class needs these nerfs at all.
I believe the class still remains unplayable in PVE, Despite all improbable claims otherwise.
A nerf of 25% is still ridiculously high IMHO. Perhaps if there was a reasonable explanation for it, I might consider it differently, but as it is..
You are welcome for my continued feedback
It's definitely not greedy, it's rational. I think that Stormwardens should be rewarded for being Stormwardens, and they are in some ways, but all of their powers should reward them in some way and give them something that isn't redundant, and that means electric shot should be better than split shot which everyone can get. Otherwise you still have the same problem, one of your paragon powers is worthless and you get an apparent Stormwarden who doesn't really shoot with electricity. Though it does have clear the ground, and the improvements to that are exciting because it will work so well with twin blade storm. But still, what if you use more archery than melee?
I don't think the 25% nerf to Split Shot is enough to make me use it again. I've been weening myself off that ability in the past week and I'm mostly fine without it. Been chugging healing pots like mad though. I do hope Electric Shot is buffed some more, it has never looked appealing enough to even spec into for me as an Archer.
I'm really looking forward to the reworking of the trees though. Would be nice to see straight acher/melee and then hybrid for third. Burn the Nature spec, burn it with fire! Some feats in the Archery tree could do with some serious reworking to make it more focused on bow use. Would also be nice to see the Split the Sky feat just incorporated into the power without having to spend the extra points on it.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The point that they are trying to do here is fairly obvious. They don't want it to just be a one button single power class. Split shot hit much more dps than any other choice other than aimed shot, you could see it was OP from as soon as you got it which is as soon as you make your HR. 25% isn't at all that much of a bad nerf, if ~10k is the current someone can hit without a vorpal then I think 7.5k sounds more reasonable from this power.
The entire point is that this will mean people will want to use rotations of the 6 encounters they can get as a HR instead of just spamming split shot. A 25% decrease of split shot hardly nerfs the class in comparison to the buffs to other powers, not to mention the fact Crush has already told us he has other plans he will be working on for a later update which he doesn't want to push live this time around.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's
Actually, it won't be "obvious" until the devs make it so. Anything else is just conjecture and speculation.
Perhaps we should ignore the Rogue's reliance on Duelist's Flurry, or the GWF's reliance of Weapon Master's Strike....
As for the buffs to other powers: A polished <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, is still a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>..
I'll wait for the Dev's to comment with their version, rather than suffer your speculation.
you just have to use your imagination lol, what he said is perfectly reasonable. Honestly you should be ignoring stupid people who dont want your hr its thier loss.
And really, weapon masters strike? Yeah its a good ability but its not thier best move not by a long shot and wms doesnt hit anywhere near as hard as a split shot from the same gs and enchant.
I've never thought of the hr as a "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" or "unplayable" in any sense; I've always had fun with all 3 of mine all of which play completely different. The problem is everybody's a critic and most aren't very good critics either; thusly is the age of the internet.
The hr is what you choose to make of it: it can be dps, it can be support, it can be a tankish class with fast and numerous attacks with great evasion for all three it can also easily mix these roles too which is something no other class can really do. It's really up to you to choose what the hr does well; there isnt a clear cut way to play which is why there is no real cookie cutter build which is applause worthy imo.
They arent likely to just come out and tell you what to do with it; figure it out, it is not that hard. It's pretty bad that people need to hear what you have to do with it from a dev and besides they are still figuring it out so It's not like they have a clear HD 1080p picture of the hr's future either if they did they wouldnt need our feedback so basically speculation is all anyone has and even if they did would you really be able to accept thier answer?
maybe if electric shot was slightly faster people would also want to use it. It takes around 1.6 seconds from activation to first fire again to second and again from second to third maybe cut that time in half or by 30%.