why dont they start with fixing gwf at-will damage, tr with their toothpicks do 2~3x our damage per hit, our at-will damage is lower than weapon damage ffs, if the damage was that of at-will + old deep gash proc ~ 2k it would be fine and balance from there, at least that would make some use of instigator as at-will based sustained damage pve dps choice(would require change of that trash capstone though), destro as encounter based dps pvp/pve choice and sent as tank, would also give sent some damage so they can focus on support encounters.
cw nerf is a laugh, cw is broken op in pve for ages, what did they nerf ? some useless skills that made run slower for about everybody who can do damage ?
or maybe they want to fix cw pvp that way - make everybody play cw so there arent "op" classes they cant facetank
yeah at will damage of gwf is total joke it need to be a lot higher it is a lot worse then damage of weapon while at every other class at wills do a lot more damage then weapons
one of the reasons gwf was fun to pve again was that gash proc on crit "fixed" the issue of pathetic at-will damage, i hope i wont be forced to play cw again to carry ppl through dungeons
and threatening rush could be remade in charged skill with increased range and damage depending on charge time, similar to Vi Vault Breaker skill from LoL
though doubt anybody who can do smth about this reads this thread anymore, last answer by gentlemancrush on page 10
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
u not gona belive to test of ppl who wanted gwf nerfed they most likley will even let it win paingiver so devs can see how gwf is great and cw do not need nerf at all....
You will need to answer every possible bluff? the pers himself said in another topic that does not use dps spec. (and honestly I do not understand this post, he knows very well the mechanics of the game to know that the destroyer is just not doing much less damage in pve, as doing more damage in pvp)
- never wanted GWF nerfed in PvE, always stated I'm glad GWF has finally the damage to compete in dungeons at high level and I'd consider theis WAI, but devs don;t agree with me sadly.
- PvP is yet another issue; destroyer is fine; PvP FOTM IV Sent is not
- There are free respecs on the Preview; I will have my CW specced for pure FOTM DPS build, even without the lifesteal fotmness that is fashionable nowadays. Also I have ideal PvE stat rolls, so yeah.
- I have (almost) BiS gear for both PvP and PvE. The GWF I mentioned has BiS. The difference between us is he has full rank 10s, I only have one, as I never did like others and got full r10s on preview etc. I might beg for some more r10s so I can be on par
If not for inthefade coming with the "CW should be 4th/5th in Paingiver", I would have not replied. But this kinda hate is too much to be left unchecked.
Also this run might or might not happen; dunno if the GWF will wanna do it. I cannot force people doing stuff.
And yes, keep ignoring every GWF supporting statement I made, and focus on the PvP part.
Again, even if DPS is 10% lower than on Live, it's a bad thing and very unfortunate.
Nobody complained about PvE GWF DPS. People complained about PvP.
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effindozaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
Nobody complained about PvE GWF DPS. People complained about PvP.
Ah, but the devs here at Cryptic seem to balance the game /around/ PvP.
Also, can we stop posting frivolity, please? That goes for /everyone/. Half the people in this thread are just complaining about CWs. Remember, guys, good feedback isn't just your opinion. It's backed by study.
good luck to prove that the difference between this
and this.
is 10%
the only improvement, yet not significant, depending on several factors are single damage (non critical) and slam. but nothing significant for pve. Assure.
ps: of course i try different atwills, rotations, feets and tutti quanti. nothing work. at least for the swordmaster.
ps2:in the first photo I'm not 100% focused on dps... tsc... yeah... big, big problem.
Deep Gash finally gets fixed and yet so many people are whining about the changes, "please give me back my darling bugged feat!"
To be honest, you guys should be thankful that you have enjoyed the broken Deep Gash for like months now and still have maybe a month or so to abuse this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Let me reiterate, the set of changes to Deep Gash is a fix, not a nerf. Come on everyone knows that the powers' tool-tips are always wrong, but man Deep Gash was just way too off, like seriously I think one tick of the Deep Gash in Live can deal higher damage than the whole six ticks in Preview.
The only reasonable request would be to keep the critical feature to it as mentioned earlier, but other than that, dream on about getting this feat to have it's Live state when Module 3 arrives.
P.S And if you think the devs will care about your PvE DPS issues and change Deep Gash and SotS accordingly, then continue being naive.
After trying my GWF not very geared. The deep gash nerf is too severe. Please consider bring it up a notch. It doesnt affect PvP since it wasn't deep gash what was killing people.
Please make something out of instigator instead of making it a completely useless choice of feats.
Why not consider making a stacking limit on the SOTS buff instead of the current iteration?
Deep Gash finally gets fixed and yet so many people are whining about the changes, "please give me back my darling bugged feat!"
To be honest, you guys should be thankful that you have enjoyed the broken Deep Gash for like months now and still have maybe a month or so to abuse this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Let me reiterate, the set of changes to Deep Gash is a fix, not a nerf. Come on everyone knows that the powers' tool-tips are always wrong, but man Deep Gash was just way too off, like seriously I think one tick of the Deep Gash in Live can deal higher damage than the whole six ticks in Preview.
The only reasonable request would be to keep the critical feature to it as mentioned earlier, but other than that, dream on about getting this feat to have it's Live state when Module 3 arrives.
P.S And if you think the devs will care about your PvE DPS issues and change Deep Gash and SotS accordingly, then continue being naive.
The irony of Deep Gash? Its the only reason GWF are in parties right now. So, when a bugged feat is what caused a class to finally be wanted in parties, that class has a right to request equivalent damage to make up for the lost dps once it is fixed so they can keep being wanted in parties.
The irony of Deep Gash? Its the only reason GWF are in parties right now. So, when a bugged feat is what caused a class to finally be wanted in parties, that class has a right to request equivalent damage to make up for the lost dps once it is fixed so they can keep being wanted in parties.
agrre , we will see only 4 cw 1 dc partys and byebye class balance , soo crazy
The irony of Deep Gash? Its the only reason GWF are in parties right now. So, when a bugged feat is what caused a class to finally be wanted in parties, that class has a right to request equivalent damage to make up for the lost dps once it is fixed so they can keep being wanted in parties.
And that's exactly what the devs are trying to do with the new changes with Destroyer's Purpose, Focused Destroyer and Executioner's Strike.
So if players want their DPS to compensate the lost DPS from the BUGGED Deep Gash (as if the devs owe players anything), players should provide more USEFUL feedback like a select few instead of comparing between CWs and GWFs, cuz' it's getting annoying and nobody gives a s**t other than like-minded geeks.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Is any GWF receiving greater than 70% of their live dmg on preview server with any build? please post logs/parses/screenshots to confirm.
Is any GWF receiving >30% of their total dmg from their primary aoe at will? again please post logs/parses/screenshots to confirm.
mentioned previously in this thread with plenty of maths. Double our at will cap from 5 to 10, and possibly remove the DR on hitting more than 1 target. That combined the new destroyer/destroyers purpose nearly makes up for all of our lost dmg from the deep gash/SotS nerf.
Better question, are any dev's still reading this?
And that's exactly what the devs are trying to do with the new changes with Destroyer's Purpose, Focused Destroyer and Executioner's Strike.
So if players want their DPS to compensate the lost DPS from the BUGGED Deep Gash (as if the devs owe players anything), players should provide more USEFUL feedback like a select few instead of comparing between CWs and GWFs, cuz' it's getting annoying and nobody gives a s**t other than like-minded geeks.
and they FAIL
and devs do owe us for playing class thats nerfed only 1 step above oblivion(GF) from launch til mod2. why not just delete all classes thats not control wizard, balancing cw pve damage could be done in 30 minutes - take every aoe ability and reduce damage by 50%, done
make Relentless Battle Fury to give this:battle fury last 0.5 sec longer and have 0.5shorter cd and reduce all your cd by 5% while working per feat point so fully feated should give this battle fury last 2.5 sec longer,have 2.5 shorter cd and reduce all your encounters cd by 50%
another sugestion for Relentless Battle Fury feat is make it more about battle fury new version of feat could be battle fury garant 5% smaller cd of encounter+1 longer durutation+aditional 2% more ap and damage buff per feat point on it so fully feated this feat should give battle fury reduce all your cd by 25% last 5sec longer and improve ap gain and damage by aditional 10%
chnage Battle Awareness make savage advance grants u 5% damage on encounter for 3 sec per point so fully feated should give this savage adavnce grant u 25% higher damage on encounters for next 15 sec , this should replace curent cd reduction for 15 secs
Instigator changes i would like to see this are some feats and how they should work to make instigator more balanced path
Vicious advantge: make it to give 2% damage and crtic chance per point
Alied opporutinty; your encounter power grants combat advantge to u and your allies on damaged target for 1,1.5,2,2.5,3 sec
cripling strike :spining strike have 1,2,3,4,5 more max target cap and reduce tragtes mitigation to damage by 3%,6%,9%,12%,15%
group asault:wicked strike deal aditional 2%,4%,6%,8%,10% damage for every target beyond first and have aditional 1,2,3,4,5 target cap
instigator vangance:you now build ap for reciveing damage and your at wills lower targets def by 25% for 5 sec
it is very hard to get destroyer from second to third stack could be something is bugged it is very easy and fast to get first 2 stack but last stack is very hard to get mostly need over 5-10 sec to get from second to third stack while i get first 2 in few secs
To be honest, you guys should be thankful that you have enjoyed the broken Deep Gash for like months now and still have maybe a month or so to abuse this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Agreed! Gwf became wanted on mod2 as melee, killing TRs from lfg channel.
Than they fix the bugged feat, got numerous compensation buffs and forums are full of "then nerf cws too" threads...
Agreed! Gwf became wanted on mod2 as melee, killing TRs from lfg channel.
Than they fix the bugged feat, got numerous compensation buffs and forums are full of "than nerf cws too" threads...
so gwf having broken dps in a single mod while being underpowered for the rest of the game is bad, cw having more dps since launch(and probably beta) + a ton of utility is ok ? and dont give c... about tankiness or whatever, tankiness = range as defensive stat and hp is about equal
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ishly3Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited March 2014
mod 3 pvp area without any pve
cw worst class on pvp now
stfu plz about cw
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zankardMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
mod 3 pvp area without any pve
cw worst class on pvp now
stfu plz about cw
There /will/ be pve in mod 3. By the way, new content in module 3 doesn't automatically remove all previous content (which is mostly pve) and perhaps some people don't care about pvp at all. CW was and still is the top and broken pve char, with top dps and top control, plus range. GWF could keep up with only just one aspect of CW, dps. Sent was OP in pvp, but took hits with the pvp patch and now this completely takes away the damage. So, GWF is nerfed on both pve and pvp. Your little OP CW will be fine, please go cry in another thread if you can't post actual feedback.
Deep Gash finally gets fixed and yet so many people are whining about the changes, "please give me back my darling bugged feat!"
To be honest, you guys should be thankful that you have enjoyed the broken Deep Gash for like months now and still have maybe a month or so to abuse this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Let me reiterate, the set of changes to Deep Gash is a fix, not a nerf. Come on everyone knows that the powers' tool-tips are always wrong, but man Deep Gash was just way too off, like seriously I think one tick of the Deep Gash in Live can deal higher damage than the whole six ticks in Preview.
The only reasonable request would be to keep the critical feature to it as mentioned earlier, but other than that, dream on about getting this feat to have it's Live state when Module 3 arrives.
P.S And if you think the devs will care about your PvE DPS issues and change Deep Gash and SotS accordingly, then continue being naive.
So if deep gash is such huge unbalancing issue doing way to much damage and most decent GWF's still run neck and neck with CW's in the DPS charts then what does that tell you about the CW class as a whole ? Your right though , It should be fixed and I don't want CW's getting nerfed either , I want TR and GF lifted up so they can get in PvE parties too .
I've heard some viable options so far and here's my suggestions to go along with it .
Increase the number of targets we can damage w/ at wills etc from 5 to 10 , not saying it has to be unlimited like a CW .
Change deep gash as stated but at least let us crit w/ it .
Don't be so quick nerfing SotS , let it go to 15% but don't let it stack . It's 5% DR drop will be mass swapped for 15% for marked targets on the T2 instigator path . 5 feat points for 5% is expensive and just not worth it .
Take another look at our at will damage , our weapon damage is high but at wills low , and our recovery rate for dailies/encounters is really low.
Throw the Instigators and sentinels a bone of some kind , the pitiful buff destroyer is getting is non existent for them .
yeah at will damage of gwf is total joke it need to be a lot higher it is a lot worse then damage of weapon while at every other class at wills do a lot more damage then weapons
Can you varify this? As GF, i have the same problem. My dmg with At-wills is less as my stated value of weapon damage. If we count it with +20% R3 of the skill AND +10% At-will bonus feat...
And again: SotS give 5% Damage increase with EACH Stack on live. Not 3%!
So total up to 15% with 3 stacks. Then other GWF can stack their SotS to yours, so it's total 30% and more. This is a big nerf in comparison to the live!
Why?
115% for GWF
115% for all other 4 result in:
575% party damage(simple said)
NOW: 5% ONLY for GWF:
105% GWF(+ the dps nerf of DG - for me DG run only for 15-20% of my total DPS - to less 90%)
100% of all 4 result in:
505%!!!! Alone a -12% teamdamage nerf! If we count that 1 DC is most 70% of the DPS + the DG nerf of GWF.
We are total down to the 95% for the GWF instead of 115%. Then we are at the bottom of 95% GWF + 4*100% = 495%
495% vs. 575% = ~-14% Teamdamage.
One nerf of the DG would be alone that it can't crit. So this alone would reduce the damage of DG make from 175%(base - higher with more crit severity) to 100%. That would be a nerf of ~15% up to 24% for high critters. This would compensate too, that sentinels do to much damage, but would let the Destroyer give a bit DPS back including the buffs to other feats. But so... it's only a big nerf for all 3 trees, with only a bit compensation for the destroyer path.
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
- never wanted GWF nerfed in PvE, always stated I'm glad GWF has finally the damage to compete in dungeons at high level and I'd consider theis WAI, but devs don;t agree with me sadly.
- PvP is yet another issue; destroyer is fine; PvP FOTM IV Sent is not
- There are free respecs on the Preview; I will have my CW specced for pure FOTM DPS build, even without the lifesteal fotmness that is fashionable nowadays. Also I have ideal PvE stat rolls, so yeah.
- I have (almost) BiS gear for both PvP and PvE. The GWF I mentioned has BiS. The difference between us is he has full rank 10s, I only have one, as I never did like others and got full r10s on preview etc. I might beg for some more r10s so I can be on par
If not for inthefade coming with the "CW should be 4th/5th in Paingiver", I would have not replied. But this kinda hate is too much to be left unchecked.
Also this run might or might not happen; dunno if the GWF will wanna do it. I cannot force people doing stuff.
And yes, keep ignoring every GWF supporting statement I made, and focus on the PvP part.
Again, even if DPS is 10% lower than on Live, it's a bad thing and very unfortunate.
Nobody complained about PvE GWF DPS. People complained about PvP.
I respect what you say most of the time.. But there are some other things to note
Cw CC>>>>>>>>>>>> GWF tank
The Cc in pve is 100x more important than to have tank ability
In this game... So saying cow has cc/dps and GWF has tank/dips really puts the GWF far behind already.. Now looking a bit further.. Dps GWF relies heavily on its dps to be able to tank.. With this dps nerf the ability to tank is pretty much dead for a destroyer GWF.. There is no way a GWF will hold any Agro against a cw now.. So with these changes cw will be CC/dps/tank
And GWF will be meehhh worse at all 3... If these changes go live GWF is dead...
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I respect what you say most of the time.. But there are some other things to note
Cw CC>>>>>>>>>>>> GWF tank
The Cc in pve is 100x more important than to have tank ability
In this game... So saying cow has cc/dps and GWF has tank/dips really puts the GWF far behind already.. Now looking a bit further.. Dps GWF relies heavily on its dps to be able to tank.. With this dps nerf the ability to tank is pretty much dead for a destroyer GWF.. There is no way a GWF will hold any Agro against a cw now.. So with these changes cw will be CC/dps/tank
And GWF will be meehhh worse at all 3... If these changes go live GWF is dead...
Well, this is why we're here, to let the developers know that GWF needs to keep the same PvE damage as they do in Live now, so they can still be desired in parties. The class finally settled in a good place in PvE - after LONG months of being pretty much irrelevant (me&my GWF friend that sadly no longer plays used to pick GWFs from LFG to run T2s with cause we felt sorry for them with messages such as "12K GWF LF anything including T1") - there's no need to nerf it there. And GWF damage is what makes it desirable, so it should stay.
(note for newer players: 12K GS used to be A LOT)
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matiagronxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 251Arc User
Well, this is why we're here, to let the developers know that GWF needs to keep the same PvE damage as they do in Live now The class finally settled in a good place in PvE - after LONG months of being pretty much irrelevant.
And GWF damage is what makes it desirable, so it should stay.
I am a dedicated CW from the beginning and me thinks the quoted post coudnt be more "on the spot"
Gwf role is exactly the one they assume right now on Live. No need to nerf their damage, just fix deep gash bug, not by this huge nerf margin though, and try to shift the lost dps to other powers/feats. Then solve the "OP CW" matter simply by making CWs much, much more, squishier so CW's cannot tank mobs AT ALL and make them feeling dread of getting close to any adds, as it should be and always was on the DnD universe. Our huge dps is due to the fact that we TANK huge packs of mobs by casting spells right in their face so easily, thats not feasible and needs to be corrected. Also make an essential boost in TRs single DPS especially while stealthy, and also making them more squishier too, so their behaviour in fights is not the "tanky single dps" as it is now but "stealthy huge single dps" based, as it should be in the first place. By making CWs and TRs squishier, meaning that they could get 1-shoted very easily by tanking adds u make the presence of GF or Sentintel GWF ESSENTIAL to the party. So that way every class takes their unique place in a fight, AS IT WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE.
I m sure that these pve changes can easily be "PVE only" so they dont interfere with PVP balances which is a completely different chapter.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Making CWs squishier is not a solution as of now, because GFs/GWFs cannot hold aggro. CWs end up with a horde of adds on them.
If they add PROPER aggro mechanics, such as in other MMOs, I have nothing against it, as long as it doesn't affect PvP.
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bajornorbertMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 272Arc User
... GWF needs to keep the same PvE damage as they do in Live now...
Agreed. Fix Deep Gash, but don't nerf it. Just by making it work as it should will solve the problem of to much DPS for a T1 feat. Make it crit 100% of the time, just like on Live, make it do 20% of your power / tick. What i would also do is make it ignore buffs/debuffs/DR, so it will always do 20% of your power at the moment of applying it, the only buffs that should be taken into account is the ones that raise your power. Don't add extra dmg from feats/buff, don't make it do more damage on a debuffed mob, but always count it as if hitting a mob with 0% DR. That way you might also make classes with the ability to boost power (DC, GF) more welcome in high end parties, since they will be the only ones who could raise the bleed ticks of a GWF.
After implementing the previously mentioned changes, i would test the GWFs damage output and buff other feats, encounters & at-wills until the total damage output, with the changes, is the same as is on Live.
One thing that could allow GWFs to make up for the damage lost with the Deep Gash changes, is to raise the target cap of their AoE at-wills and encounters. It might be interesting to see how they do if the target cap was removed entirely from their AoE at-wills, let them hit as many targets as they can, if it connects it's a hit, that will surely boost their DPS.
Also revert SotS to being a team buff. GWFs need some utility too, they are not a pure DPS class after all.
... Our huge dps is due to the fact that we TANK huge packs of mobs by casting spells right in their face so easily...
Couldn't agree more. CWs were always very powerful, but only recently have become OP, thanks to the huge boost to GS & the boons & artifacts, and to some extent even the change to Soulforged. CWs were constantly nerfed since open-beta, some intentional, some not really or just didn't appear in the patch notes, and even with the constant nerfs, we've become more powerful with every module. If CWs would've played so bravely in vanilla Neverwinter as they do now, they wouldn't have survived for .5s. CWs have become way to tanky for a wizard, and a wizard that doesn't need to dodge is doing a lot more damage than one that is constantly running around, and mod 3 will make us even more tankier while maintaining the same amount of damage.
Making CWs squishier is not a solution as of now, because GFs/GWFs cannot hold aggro. CWs end up with a horde of adds on them.
If they add PROPER aggro mechanics, such as in other MMOs, I have nothing against it, as long as it doesn't affect PvP.
As wizzies stand, If the gwf cannot do its current LIVE dps.. GWF will no longer be viable in pve. CN/VT ect... Doesnt need a tank. 4cw and a DC is the prime group setup. Even with the dps. But a gwf can go and dish out enough to be viable and give them a reason to take something other than a wiz.
DG was nerfed in multiple ways on test.. The initial tick isnt applied instant.... Its dmg was nerfed to nonexistance.. and it no longer crits.
It went from about 45-60% of someones dmg, to 5%, essentially nerfing the classes total dmg output by 50ish%..
So that GWF That was just behind the wiz in dmg in cn.... is now doing HALF the dmg he was doing.. lol
gg
just for the record, the problem is not being weaker or less useful than the cw, the problem is this one:
the instigator lost damage (deep gash) and as compensation he needs much more utility offered in your tree.
the destroyer lost utility (sos) to compensation he need a lot more damage than previously offered in your tree.
the sentinel is being punished on both ... so need better defensive options (yes, this will be a problem).
this is the main point: the destroyer for example do not have to do damage equal to that made with the deep gash (he is far from the current damage, by the way) he needs to do MUCH more damage.
ps: in my view, increase cap without bringing any qualitative damages (compensating quantitative) is like asking batman, on his deathbed, open a bottle just to make him feel strong.
Comments
yeah at will damage of gwf is total joke it need to be a lot higher it is a lot worse then damage of weapon while at every other class at wills do a lot more damage then weapons
and threatening rush could be remade in charged skill with increased range and damage depending on charge time, similar to Vi Vault Breaker skill from LoL
though doubt anybody who can do smth about this reads this thread anymore, last answer by gentlemancrush on page 10
- never wanted GWF nerfed in PvE, always stated I'm glad GWF has finally the damage to compete in dungeons at high level and I'd consider theis WAI, but devs don;t agree with me sadly.
- PvP is yet another issue; destroyer is fine; PvP FOTM IV Sent is not
- There are free respecs on the Preview; I will have my CW specced for pure FOTM DPS build, even without the lifesteal fotmness that is fashionable nowadays. Also I have ideal PvE stat rolls, so yeah.
- I have (almost) BiS gear for both PvP and PvE. The GWF I mentioned has BiS. The difference between us is he has full rank 10s, I only have one, as I never did like others and got full r10s on preview etc. I might beg for some more r10s so I can be on par
If not for inthefade coming with the "CW should be 4th/5th in Paingiver", I would have not replied. But this kinda hate is too much to be left unchecked.
Also this run might or might not happen; dunno if the GWF will wanna do it. I cannot force people doing stuff.
And yes, keep ignoring every GWF supporting statement I made, and focus on the PvP part.
Again, even if DPS is 10% lower than on Live, it's a bad thing and very unfortunate.
Nobody complained about PvE GWF DPS. People complained about PvP.
Ah, but the devs here at Cryptic seem to balance the game /around/ PvP.
Also, can we stop posting frivolity, please? That goes for /everyone/. Half the people in this thread are just complaining about CWs. Remember, guys, good feedback isn't just your opinion. It's backed by study.
and this.
is 10%
the only improvement, yet not significant, depending on several factors are single damage (non critical) and slam. but nothing significant for pve. Assure.
ps: of course i try different atwills, rotations, feets and tutti quanti. nothing work. at least for the swordmaster.
ps2:in the first photo I'm not 100% focused on dps... tsc... yeah... big, big problem.
To be honest, you guys should be thankful that you have enjoyed the broken Deep Gash for like months now and still have maybe a month or so to abuse this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Let me reiterate, the set of changes to Deep Gash is a fix, not a nerf. Come on everyone knows that the powers' tool-tips are always wrong, but man Deep Gash was just way too off, like seriously I think one tick of the Deep Gash in Live can deal higher damage than the whole six ticks in Preview.
The only reasonable request would be to keep the critical feature to it as mentioned earlier, but other than that, dream on about getting this feat to have it's Live state when Module 3 arrives.
P.S And if you think the devs will care about your PvE DPS issues and change Deep Gash and SotS accordingly, then continue being naive.
The deep gash nerf is too severe. Please consider bring it up a notch. It doesnt affect PvP since it wasn't deep gash what was killing people.
Please make something out of instigator instead of making it a completely useless choice of feats.
Why not consider making a stacking limit on the SOTS buff instead of the current iteration?
The irony of Deep Gash? Its the only reason GWF are in parties right now. So, when a bugged feat is what caused a class to finally be wanted in parties, that class has a right to request equivalent damage to make up for the lost dps once it is fixed so they can keep being wanted in parties.
agrre , we will see only 4 cw 1 dc partys and byebye class balance , soo crazy
And that's exactly what the devs are trying to do with the new changes with Destroyer's Purpose, Focused Destroyer and Executioner's Strike.
So if players want their DPS to compensate the lost DPS from the BUGGED Deep Gash (as if the devs owe players anything), players should provide more USEFUL feedback like a select few instead of comparing between CWs and GWFs, cuz' it's getting annoying and nobody gives a s**t other than like-minded geeks.
Is any GWF receiving >30% of their total dmg from their primary aoe at will? again please post logs/parses/screenshots to confirm.
mentioned previously in this thread with plenty of maths. Double our at will cap from 5 to 10, and possibly remove the DR on hitting more than 1 target. That combined the new destroyer/destroyers purpose nearly makes up for all of our lost dmg from the deep gash/SotS nerf.
Better question, are any dev's still reading this?
As always, speed is increased by 25% - it's not a reduction of the cool down time by 25%.
Btw. 1 / (1 + 0.25) = 80%... exactly the 20% time reduction you're seeing.
and they FAIL
and devs do owe us for playing class thats nerfed only 1 step above oblivion(GF) from launch til mod2. why not just delete all classes thats not control wizard, balancing cw pve damage could be done in 30 minutes - take every aoe ability and reduce damage by 50%, done
yeah but is not 25% and feats says it is 25% then they need to change it to 20% or make it to reduce by 25% as tooltip says
Destroyer path changes i would like to see:
make Relentless Battle Fury to give this:battle fury last 0.5 sec longer and have 0.5shorter cd and reduce all your cd by 5% while working per feat point so fully feated should give this battle fury last 2.5 sec longer,have 2.5 shorter cd and reduce all your encounters cd by 50%
another sugestion for Relentless Battle Fury feat is make it more about battle fury new version of feat could be battle fury garant 5% smaller cd of encounter+1 longer durutation+aditional 2% more ap and damage buff per feat point on it so fully feated this feat should give battle fury reduce all your cd by 25% last 5sec longer and improve ap gain and damage by aditional 10%
chnage Battle Awareness make savage advance grants u 5% damage on encounter for 3 sec per point so fully feated should give this savage adavnce grant u 25% higher damage on encounters for next 15 sec , this should replace curent cd reduction for 15 secs
Instigator changes i would like to see this are some feats and how they should work to make instigator more balanced path
Vicious advantge: make it to give 2% damage and crtic chance per point
Alied opporutinty; your encounter power grants combat advantge to u and your allies on damaged target for 1,1.5,2,2.5,3 sec
cripling strike :spining strike have 1,2,3,4,5 more max target cap and reduce tragtes mitigation to damage by 3%,6%,9%,12%,15%
group asault:wicked strike deal aditional 2%,4%,6%,8%,10% damage for every target beyond first and have aditional 1,2,3,4,5 target cap
instigator vangance:you now build ap for reciveing damage and your at wills lower targets def by 25% for 5 sec
it is very hard to get destroyer from second to third stack could be something is bugged it is very easy and fast to get first 2 stack but last stack is very hard to get mostly need over 5-10 sec to get from second to third stack while i get first 2 in few secs
Agreed! Gwf became wanted on mod2 as melee, killing TRs from lfg channel.
Than they fix the bugged feat, got numerous compensation buffs and forums are full of "then nerf cws too" threads...
mod3 only has 1 class; Control Wizards
so gwf having broken dps in a single mod while being underpowered for the rest of the game is bad, cw having more dps since launch(and probably beta) + a ton of utility is ok ? and dont give c... about tankiness or whatever, tankiness = range as defensive stat and hp is about equal
cw worst class on pvp now
stfu plz about cw
There /will/ be pve in mod 3. By the way, new content in module 3 doesn't automatically remove all previous content (which is mostly pve) and perhaps some people don't care about pvp at all. CW was and still is the top and broken pve char, with top dps and top control, plus range. GWF could keep up with only just one aspect of CW, dps. Sent was OP in pvp, but took hits with the pvp patch and now this completely takes away the damage. So, GWF is nerfed on both pve and pvp. Your little OP CW will be fine, please go cry in another thread if you can't post actual feedback.
PS: Learn how to write in proper sentences.
So if deep gash is such huge unbalancing issue doing way to much damage and most decent GWF's still run neck and neck with CW's in the DPS charts then what does that tell you about the CW class as a whole ? Your right though , It should be fixed and I don't want CW's getting nerfed either , I want TR and GF lifted up so they can get in PvE parties too .
I've heard some viable options so far and here's my suggestions to go along with it .
Increase the number of targets we can damage w/ at wills etc from 5 to 10 , not saying it has to be unlimited like a CW .
Change deep gash as stated but at least let us crit w/ it .
Don't be so quick nerfing SotS , let it go to 15% but don't let it stack . It's 5% DR drop will be mass swapped for 15% for marked targets on the T2 instigator path . 5 feat points for 5% is expensive and just not worth it .
Take another look at our at will damage , our weapon damage is high but at wills low , and our recovery rate for dailies/encounters is really low.
Throw the Instigators and sentinels a bone of some kind , the pitiful buff destroyer is getting is non existent for them .
Can you varify this? As GF, i have the same problem. My dmg with At-wills is less as my stated value of weapon damage. If we count it with +20% R3 of the skill AND +10% At-will bonus feat...
And again: SotS give 5% Damage increase with EACH Stack on live. Not 3%!
So total up to 15% with 3 stacks. Then other GWF can stack their SotS to yours, so it's total 30% and more. This is a big nerf in comparison to the live!
Why?
115% for GWF
115% for all other 4 result in:
575% party damage(simple said)
NOW: 5% ONLY for GWF:
105% GWF(+ the dps nerf of DG - for me DG run only for 15-20% of my total DPS - to less 90%)
100% of all 4 result in:
505%!!!! Alone a -12% teamdamage nerf! If we count that 1 DC is most 70% of the DPS + the DG nerf of GWF.
We are total down to the 95% for the GWF instead of 115%. Then we are at the bottom of 95% GWF + 4*100% = 495%
495% vs. 575% = ~-14% Teamdamage.
One nerf of the DG would be alone that it can't crit. So this alone would reduce the damage of DG make from 175%(base - higher with more crit severity) to 100%. That would be a nerf of ~15% up to 24% for high critters. This would compensate too, that sentinels do to much damage, but would let the Destroyer give a bit DPS back including the buffs to other feats. But so... it's only a big nerf for all 3 trees, with only a bit compensation for the destroyer path.
I respect what you say most of the time.. But there are some other things to note
Cw CC>>>>>>>>>>>> GWF tank
The Cc in pve is 100x more important than to have tank ability
In this game... So saying cow has cc/dps and GWF has tank/dips really puts the GWF far behind already.. Now looking a bit further.. Dps GWF relies heavily on its dps to be able to tank.. With this dps nerf the ability to tank is pretty much dead for a destroyer GWF.. There is no way a GWF will hold any Agro against a cw now.. So with these changes cw will be CC/dps/tank
And GWF will be meehhh worse at all 3... If these changes go live GWF is dead...
Well, this is why we're here, to let the developers know that GWF needs to keep the same PvE damage as they do in Live now, so they can still be desired in parties. The class finally settled in a good place in PvE - after LONG months of being pretty much irrelevant (me&my GWF friend that sadly no longer plays used to pick GWFs from LFG to run T2s with cause we felt sorry for them with messages such as "12K GWF LF anything including T1") - there's no need to nerf it there. And GWF damage is what makes it desirable, so it should stay.
(note for newer players: 12K GS used to be A LOT)
I am a dedicated CW from the beginning and me thinks the quoted post coudnt be more "on the spot"
Gwf role is exactly the one they assume right now on Live. No need to nerf their damage, just fix deep gash bug, not by this huge nerf margin though, and try to shift the lost dps to other powers/feats. Then solve the "OP CW" matter simply by making CWs much, much more, squishier so CW's cannot tank mobs AT ALL and make them feeling dread of getting close to any adds, as it should be and always was on the DnD universe. Our huge dps is due to the fact that we TANK huge packs of mobs by casting spells right in their face so easily, thats not feasible and needs to be corrected. Also make an essential boost in TRs single DPS especially while stealthy, and also making them more squishier too, so their behaviour in fights is not the "tanky single dps" as it is now but "stealthy huge single dps" based, as it should be in the first place. By making CWs and TRs squishier, meaning that they could get 1-shoted very easily by tanking adds u make the presence of GF or Sentintel GWF ESSENTIAL to the party. So that way every class takes their unique place in a fight, AS IT WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE.
I m sure that these pve changes can easily be "PVE only" so they dont interfere with PVP balances which is a completely different chapter.
If they add PROPER aggro mechanics, such as in other MMOs, I have nothing against it, as long as it doesn't affect PvP.
Agreed. Fix Deep Gash, but don't nerf it. Just by making it work as it should will solve the problem of to much DPS for a T1 feat. Make it crit 100% of the time, just like on Live, make it do 20% of your power / tick. What i would also do is make it ignore buffs/debuffs/DR, so it will always do 20% of your power at the moment of applying it, the only buffs that should be taken into account is the ones that raise your power. Don't add extra dmg from feats/buff, don't make it do more damage on a debuffed mob, but always count it as if hitting a mob with 0% DR. That way you might also make classes with the ability to boost power (DC, GF) more welcome in high end parties, since they will be the only ones who could raise the bleed ticks of a GWF.
After implementing the previously mentioned changes, i would test the GWFs damage output and buff other feats, encounters & at-wills until the total damage output, with the changes, is the same as is on Live.
One thing that could allow GWFs to make up for the damage lost with the Deep Gash changes, is to raise the target cap of their AoE at-wills and encounters. It might be interesting to see how they do if the target cap was removed entirely from their AoE at-wills, let them hit as many targets as they can, if it connects it's a hit, that will surely boost their DPS.
Also revert SotS to being a team buff. GWFs need some utility too, they are not a pure DPS class after all.
Couldn't agree more. CWs were always very powerful, but only recently have become OP, thanks to the huge boost to GS & the boons & artifacts, and to some extent even the change to Soulforged. CWs were constantly nerfed since open-beta, some intentional, some not really or just didn't appear in the patch notes, and even with the constant nerfs, we've become more powerful with every module. If CWs would've played so bravely in vanilla Neverwinter as they do now, they wouldn't have survived for .5s. CWs have become way to tanky for a wizard, and a wizard that doesn't need to dodge is doing a lot more damage than one that is constantly running around, and mod 3 will make us even more tankier while maintaining the same amount of damage.
That's exactly how it was pre-modules (after the heal aggro fix) and how it's supposed to be. CWs should be glass cannons, not one-man armies.
As wizzies stand, If the gwf cannot do its current LIVE dps.. GWF will no longer be viable in pve. CN/VT ect... Doesnt need a tank. 4cw and a DC is the prime group setup. Even with the dps. But a gwf can go and dish out enough to be viable and give them a reason to take something other than a wiz.
DG was nerfed in multiple ways on test.. The initial tick isnt applied instant.... Its dmg was nerfed to nonexistance.. and it no longer crits.
It went from about 45-60% of someones dmg, to 5%, essentially nerfing the classes total dmg output by 50ish%..
So that GWF That was just behind the wiz in dmg in cn.... is now doing HALF the dmg he was doing.. lol
gg
the instigator lost damage (deep gash) and as compensation he needs much more utility offered in your tree.
the destroyer lost utility (sos) to compensation he need a lot more damage than previously offered in your tree.
the sentinel is being punished on both ... so need better defensive options (yes, this will be a problem).
this is the main point: the destroyer for example do not have to do damage equal to that made with the deep gash (he is far from the current damage, by the way) he needs to do MUCH more damage.
ps: in my view, increase cap without bringing any qualitative damages (compensating quantitative) is like asking batman, on his deathbed, open a bottle just to make him feel strong.