inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
in terms of PVE there is only destroyer, while sentinel will become pvp only.
Depending on how they change stealth I can see Destroyer doing ok in PVP as well, since these changes drastically increase our spike dmg ability vs single target, lol? as in, if permastealth is no longer a thing and TRs are forced to be squishy high dps single target killers, destroyer does the same thing. 215k Shocking Execution is nice (as it ignores DR, but getting nerfed) but i'm hitting 200k with IBS with the same debuffs they used and it's not a daily.
Stop complaining about Threatening Rush because of GWFs.
That at-will is one of our (GFs) prime tools in generating aggro and one of two ways we can actually move around in combat. We already have Lunging Strike and Enforced Threat on cooldown, so doing anything to Threatening Rush because of those IV Sentinels in PVP will do serious damage to the already troubled GF in PVE.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
i love how already theres only 2 pve trees mentioned for gwf destroyer geting nerfed and instigator geting nurfed into uselessness, its like sentinel everyone agrees has been poinless since day zip and need not be mentioned anymore, your should take your gwf's spec to IV sentinel(the tank spec so they calim) take the bonuse threat skills then try to hold agro with it on more then 4 enemys vs almost any other class in game dosnt work anymore not that it ever did without usign deep gash and student, and fade is right i respeced my IV sent on pts and went destroyer with some sent (still cant hold agro very well but its a improvement over sentinel, not sogood at it as i am on live though) and every single single ecounter i have is doing 3x or more the damage, were id crit on takedown for like 4-5k as a sent before now its 15k my IBS goes upto almost 50k were it was like 44k in a good group realy stackign debuffs on boss(im relativly low power for a sentinel) i gained enuther 6% arpen i get unstopable via dealign or receiving damage now my FLS willcrit for 20k + all this testing was done on icewind dale enemys that have a bit higher base mitigation, about the same as a not to epic pvp control wizard minus maybe 10-15% from tenacity, if these pve nurfs were to somehow balance pvp i can say right here they failed spectacualy i lost 10% deflection 7% mitigation and 7.5% crit to have a doublign or tripling of single target damage and more ARpen, + im goign to tweak spec for pvp for mod 3 beacuase 1 most of the stuff like ice is most abundant in pvp areas and 2 with no real group buffs and without the ability to stack lasting aoe agro GWF are going to be as usefull in pve as a tr, less so realy as tr still have some stuff liek wiked reminder that can buff group and 5% crit for group if they take it so the only place ill be geting a team will be for pvp so i mosewell spec for pvp, i do feel sorry for any gwf that havnt goten all there gear already, as anyone knows thats played a rouge u basicly have to offer sexual favours to get onto a pve group atm
GET YOUR GEAR NOW you may have no use for it as your gwf gathers dust but atleast u can say you have it
and ill see you all in pvp
Relentless Battle Fury need rework still is very bad and not worth of takeing think would be better if change new adition on feat from restanice ignored to when u use battle fury,take down or roar u gain 5% action points or another version which could work is after u use one of them u get 3 sec buff while buff is active u gain ap 20% faster
any of this 2 version i is good since gwf have huge lack of ap gain and this could make this feat more worth of feat points since encounters we have to use and it improves are very bad
new deep gash could use some utily
way i would add aditionl utily to deep gash is something like targets efected with deep gash dps lose 10% of our recovery per sec this could make this this feat more worth of points and even good for pvp
I haven't said that a CW pve nerf will help them in pvp, i've said i'm okay with the inevitable incoming CW nerf as long as we get at least an AP gain and CC boost. Read: i won't come crying on the forums like 90% of GWFs do.
Also, have you played on the PTS or you just read the patch notes and you're already crying? If you've played on the PTS, have you been in any dungeons or you've tested your damage on dummies, cause it's not the same?
And a well played IV Destroyer can outdamage a CW or at least keep up with them on Live, if not it's the GWFs fault. You know your statement is true both ways. A GWF shouldn't be last in line, if you're running ahead, pulling everything, applying bleed to everyone you can, using your encounters wisely, not on 1 mob, you'll have much higher DPS then arriving at the battle after the CWs cleared half the dungeon
Excuse me, but we have a right to complain just like everybody else.
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A GWF has a target cap of FIVE (5) at max, even with their dailies along with a very low AP generation. The CW on the other hand has target caps ranging between 5-15 up to INFINITE and is able to spam dailies way more frequently.
If you outdamage a class with twice as many target caps/ up to infinitely more, then the CW is definitely doing it on purpose, or actually does not know what they're doing. In my opinion, the CW's target cap should not exceed more than 5-7, at all.
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250 damage (unable to crit) does not make a huge difference. The CW's burn adds even smaller bosses that fast, that even having ONE in a party with a GWF results in the bleed ticks that you have just mentioned getting erased along with the mobs. This is A: Due to their off the wall, damage and B: Because they have no TC.
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I don't want to sound rude, but it does not seem like you actually know alot about GWF and their mechanics.
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bajornorbertMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 272Arc User
...
250 damage (unable to crit) does not make a huge difference. The CW's burn adds even smaller bosses that fast, that even having ONE in a party with a GWF results in the bleed ticks that you have just mentioned getting erased along with the mobs. This is A: Due to their off the wall, damage and B: Because they have no TC...
If you read one of the later posts i said that the bleed is very small in my opinion too. I do think it'll need to be changed, to either do 20% of a GWFs power / tick, or as someone else mentioned it could be allowed to crit. The best solution, if i start to think about it, would be to increase the damage from 20% of your power total to 30% total and make them crit 100% of the time, like it used to, that way you could still see 1k+ ticks, making it account for ~15% of your total damage instead of 5% like it's now on PTS, or 40%+ like it's on Live.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
A GWF has a target cap of FIVE (5) at max, even with their dailies along with a very low AP generation. The CW on the other hand has target caps ranging between 5-15 up to INFINITE and is able to spam dailies way more frequently.
Nope, Avalanche hits more targets than that, and IBS procs effects onto however many targets are in the splash zone (splat it into the middle of a Singularity). There's more, but those are the two I've actually been using. (Mightly Leap is uncapped and can be used to throw bleeds around, for example.)
As for the Destroyer, I mean sure we are losing some damage via Deep Gash,
but we get an extra tick.
increasted percentages of damage from Focused Destroyer close to a constant 15-20%
I think that will all lead to a increase in PvE Damage for Destroyer's, at least in theory...
Deep Gash goes down from 60% Gwf damage to 5% this is the loss.
On the plus side, two situational, temporaru (the Destroyer Purpose stacks vanish almost immediately) features get a few percent here, a few percent there.
This is not a rework, this is not keeping a similar overall damage. This is, gwf back to module 1, where you could barely see a couple of them trying to complete easy foundries. Most unwanted in dungeons and - Heaven forbid - in PvP.
ToD = ..........
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
this extra tick there now. it is being added to the main critical damage ... yes, we lost a lot more damage than you think.
exemple your 30k is 25k. your 5k stick is added to main damage. can look in the logs. There are six sticks
hence comes a problem: these buffs are creating a large pool of damage will be mitigated by hitting multiple targets. the bleed was - among many things - a constant behind this detail.
in other words, even if your current 30k (25kibs/30kbleed) is maintained by buffs, automatically it will be lost by hitting multiple damage. this nature buffs own are leaving the strongest single gwf without bringing any value to pve.
ps: I'm pretty sure that the ibs loses damage on hit multiple targets. but there are other powers that have detail how this feature.
ps2:i not given precise numbers: this is a very strange feet.
I think the changes are fine, it brings deep gash into a state that is acceptable as a tier 1 feat. The destroyer changes is a good push in the right direction. However sentinel needs a look at again, due to threat. And instigator capstone needs a rework.
To me the changes are fine, bringing gwf damage to the top is not the solution, we have far too much tank, even in a dps spec with dps gear we can survive almost any odds (I've soloed the adds in CN before which is rather ridiculous).
On a side note, all that needs to be done is CW damage lowered to around the same as GWFs, TRs and rangers need a huge boost too. Alot of GWFs are crying about damage, but boosting damage is not the solution, and will just invite people to using LF4M GWF instead of CW. My bigger concern is what is to be done about the 3 other classes.
We just did CN on PTS and the GWF wasn't top DPS anymore, but it wasn't very low either. You need to use a diff build.
The cw's he's running with aren't optimal dps builds.
Devs, is your intention that a GWF should do the same dps as CW, when the GWF has as much power as the CW has total GS?
Now that's not a brillant perspective for a class that has nothing but its DPS.
Having to rework all your build and rotations and gameplay
just to deliver less damage than a badly built CW with half the GS, whom you were previously out-paingivering by 3 millions.
ToD = ..........
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
To me the changes are fine, bringing gwf damage to the top is not the solution, we have far too much tank, even in a dps spec with dps gear we can survive almost any odds (I've soloed the adds in CN before which is rather ridiculous).
On a side note, all that needs to be done is CW damage lowered to around the same as GWFs, TRs and rangers need a huge boost too. Alot of GWFs are crying about damage, but boosting damage is not the solution, and will just invite people to using LF4M GWF instead of CW. My bigger concern is what is to be done about the 3 other classes.
Well given in this game control and debuffs are worth much more than 'tanking' ability, then I am not sure I would fully agree - just think about the relative usefulness of the GF and CW. In any case, a melee class needs a certain amount of tankiness as it is err, going to be in melee to deal any damage. Also the Destroyer path GWF, which is the only semi-decent PvE spec after these changes brings just DPS - even the group buffs are being altered.
So even if the CW DPS was drastically lowered to a similar amount to that of a TR, HR or GWF there is little point doing anything but stacking CWs as they bring so much else to the group. The other non-DC classes actually NEED to have somewhat more DPS than a CW for the 'CW LF4M CW' meta to change.
IMO, the easiest solution to buffing GWFs could lie in their ability to at will spam in AoE... This was addressed LONG ago, but considering GWFs have target caps, maybe letting AoE At wills deal full damage to ALL targets would be a pretty nice damage boost, maybe even up the damage to those attacks as well...
I swing my 671 top end damage sword on my GF and it hits for 1200-1400.
I swing my 2h 1000 top end damage 2H sword and it hits for 600?
IMO, the easiest solution to buffing GWFs could lie in their ability to at will spam in AoE... This was addressed LONG ago, but considering GWFs have target caps, maybe letting AoE At wills deal full damage to ALL targets would be a pretty nice damage boost, maybe even up the damage to those attacks as well...
I swing my 671 top end damage sword on my GF and it hits for 1200-1400.
I swing my 2h 1000 top end damage 2H sword and it hits for 600?
Tell me im not crazy here.....
yeah gwf have strongest weapons but weakest at wills in game buffing up our at will damage would help but we lost all utily with patch even if they would buuf up gwf to do 15-20% more dps then cw none would take us since cw dont do just dps he buff,debuff,cc the best in game
yeah gwf have strongest weapons but weakest at wills in game buffing up our at will damage would help but we lost all utily with patch even if they would buuf up gwf to do 15-20% more dps then cw none would take us since cw dont do just dps he buff,debuff,cc the best in game
Well, If they removed Unstoppable damage nerf and just reduced the attack speed slightly this would give a really nice damage boost for PVE. Then if you increase the at will damage on MOST attacks - like AOE attacks by 10-15% and made it so it has NO target cap within range AND had no DR depending on targets hit
This would make GWFs a powerhouse in PVE again. Yes CW can control/debuff but throw a GWF at will aoe spamming and popping unstoppable for even more dps... Thatll be a good team and THEN GWFs can actually hold more agro as well.
The only issue would be in PVP where unstoppable is pretty OP for Sentinels, but I think that with Deep Gash change along with SOTS nerf it may not really make a ton of difference in all honesty...
Most GWFs in pvp spam solo target at wills and even then, you hit for 600 at will, increase attack speed wont really make that OP...
Well, If they removed Unstoppable damage nerf and just reduced the attack speed slightly this would give a really nice damage boost for PVE. Then if you increase the at will damage on MOST attacks - like AOE attacks by 10-15% and made it so it has NO target cap within range AND had no DR depending on targets hit
This would make GWFs a powerhouse in PVE again. Yes CW can control/debuff but throw a GWF at will aoe spamming and popping unstoppable for even more dps... Thatll be a good team and THEN GWFs can actually hold more agro as well.
The only issue would be in PVP where unstoppable is pretty OP for Sentinels, but I think that with Deep Gash change along with SOTS nerf it may not really make a ton of difference in all honesty...
Most GWFs in pvp spam solo target at wills and even then, you hit for 600 at will, increase attack speed wont really make that OP...
Not a bad suggestion, but where would it leave the other DPS classes such as the TR and HR?
I'd have no idea how to bring the rogue dps up without change the mechanics of stealth. and ranger,pff, I no have idea how it works.
all I know is I do not want to ride a build based recreate a "fast" Anvil of Doom alternating a slam power buff for... what? old combo bleed without roar ap build? GREAT idea but may not be the trump card of a destroyer. much sacrifice for an unsatisfactory result.
I'd have no idea how to bring the rogue dps up without change the mechanics of stealth. and ranger,pff, I no have idea how it works.
TR damage could be increased by lowering the animation times of some of the at-wills, and lowering the recharge of some of the higher-damage encounter powers. Would allow for more sustained DPS without increasing spike damage in PvP.
TR damage could be increased by lowering the animation times of some of the at-wills, and lowering the recharge of some of the higher-damage encounter powers. Would allow for more sustained DPS without increasing spike damage in PvP.
How would this interact with perma-stealth / high-uptime stealth builds?
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited March 2014
All the TR encounter powers that do high damage throw you out of stealth, so either they'd be adapting playstyles to incorporate them or continuing to forgo them.
As for at-wills, Disheartening Strike and Gloaming Cut are both capable of pretty big damage, but they're slow, which is the tradeoff for using them. I'm not aware of either being a popular PvP choice (which is not to say they can't be viable in the right hands). Faster Disheartening Strike would probably have some people rethinking the Whisperknife.
hmmm... if I had to draw a projection with 3 dps ( gwf / rogue / ranger ) think in the following way :
gwf would like a class that would have a proportionate amount of damage to enemies , he would enter as the class of higher damage potential and, as the enemies die , he would lose power. would be nice to do a quick cleaning/ nuke , being " optional " cw . better than it is today in some ways , worse in others.
the rogue would be the reverse , he would have focused on single (unlimited stack?) increasing performance . in other words , it would grow , single, in the same proportion that gwf falls , aoe . would be good for to make the fight against a much faster boss / taking care of the strongest guys .
the ranger could be a constant. he does not fall , he did not rise. he always keeps a proportion continues aoe and single. in view of the descending performance gwf in aoe and increasing in single rogue , he would never have problem of threat .
summarizing :
good gwf would be one that could sustain damage over time (hence enter this " anvil of doom combo" )
the rogue try to maximize your damage or stack speed .
when asked to gwf projection, the answer was in reference to rogue / hr. nothing more pertinent than outlining a scenario among the three classes, to justify the projection for gwf. if I said I do not know what to do with the ranger, so I'm not giving feedback on the ranger (obvious, not?)
the more'm not the first who posts on the subject. then go disturb other.
when asked to gwf projection, the answer was in reference to rogue / hr. nothing more pertinent than outlining a scenario among the three classes, to justify the projection for gwf. if I said I do not know what to do with the ranger, so I'm not giving feedback on the ranger (obvious, not?)
the more'm not the first who posts on the subject. then go disturb other.
A bit strongly put but essentially correct.
Feedback about the GWF is the central topic, but when such changes affect the DPS class balance that the Devs have SPECIFICALLY said they want to maintain, then (in my opinion) it is relevant. If the Devs decide otherwise I am sure they will say so.
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verzavusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited March 2014
Like with almost all nerfs, they're unjustified. I only read the first few posts to see someone say, "HR deals twice the damage of a GWF". Yes, a perfect vorpal HR with an IQ of 155 who has done his homework on dungeons reasonably well will outdamage a 9k blue item GWF.
I'm one of the better PvE CW's in-game and I can safely say that top-tier PvE GWF's keep up or occassionally even outdamage me every once in a while. They're usually equally impressed by how I kept up. Classes are balanced as they are and they need no changes PvE-wise apart from the GF and maybe the TR.
As a matter of fact, I would almost opt for a damage buff for HR's. They're sorely lacking function in PvE and by no means will I ever pug one for my groups. GWF and CW deal far more damage (x2 minimum, assuming same level of equipment), debuff better.. Why complain HR's deal more damage when the only possible cause for this would be a sheer lack of gaming experience by the HR?
And this same concept goes for almost every complaint in the past few months. Tenebrous enchantments were not overpowered, but like any situation they would easily trample new people with no equipment. A well-specced PvP character could respond to tenebrous users accordingly. They got nerfed anyway.
Ice knives were dodgable. Why nerf this damage? Because people suck at dodging?
The list goes on and on. What I'm getting at is, the GWF needs no changes. The people who play it do. Props for the deep gash thing though, it felt overpowered.
Comments
Depending on how they change stealth I can see Destroyer doing ok in PVP as well, since these changes drastically increase our spike dmg ability vs single target, lol? as in, if permastealth is no longer a thing and TRs are forced to be squishy high dps single target killers, destroyer does the same thing. 215k Shocking Execution is nice (as it ignores DR, but getting nerfed) but i'm hitting 200k with IBS with the same debuffs they used and it's not a daily.
Stop complaining about Threatening Rush because of GWFs.
That at-will is one of our (GFs) prime tools in generating aggro and one of two ways we can actually move around in combat. We already have Lunging Strike and Enforced Threat on cooldown, so doing anything to Threatening Rush because of those IV Sentinels in PVP will do serious damage to the already troubled GF in PVE.
GET YOUR GEAR NOW you may have no use for it as your gwf gathers dust but atleast u can say you have it
and ill see you all in pvp
any of this 2 version i is good since gwf have huge lack of ap gain and this could make this feat more worth of feat points since encounters we have to use and it improves are very bad
new deep gash could use some utily
way i would add aditionl utily to deep gash is something like targets efected with deep gash dps lose 10% of our recovery per sec this could make this this feat more worth of points and even good for pvp
student need to be roled bk to old version
Excuse me, but we have a right to complain just like everybody else.
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A GWF has a target cap of FIVE (5) at max, even with their dailies along with a very low AP generation. The CW on the other hand has target caps ranging between 5-15 up to INFINITE and is able to spam dailies way more frequently.
If you outdamage a class with twice as many target caps/ up to infinitely more, then the CW is definitely doing it on purpose, or actually does not know what they're doing. In my opinion, the CW's target cap should not exceed more than 5-7, at all.
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250 damage (unable to crit) does not make a huge difference. The CW's burn adds even smaller bosses that fast, that even having ONE in a party with a GWF results in the bleed ticks that you have just mentioned getting erased along with the mobs. This is A: Due to their off the wall, damage and B: Because they have no TC.
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I don't want to sound rude, but it does not seem like you actually know alot about GWF and their mechanics.
If you read one of the later posts i said that the bleed is very small in my opinion too. I do think it'll need to be changed, to either do 20% of a GWFs power / tick, or as someone else mentioned it could be allowed to crit. The best solution, if i start to think about it, would be to increase the damage from 20% of your power total to 30% total and make them crit 100% of the time, like it used to, that way you could still see 1k+ ticks, making it account for ~15% of your total damage instead of 5% like it's now on PTS, or 40%+ like it's on Live.
Nope, Avalanche hits more targets than that, and IBS procs effects onto however many targets are in the splash zone (splat it into the middle of a Singularity). There's more, but those are the two I've actually been using. (Mightly Leap is uncapped and can be used to throw bleeds around, for example.)
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Deep Gash goes down from 60% Gwf damage to 5% this is the loss.
On the plus side, two situational, temporaru (the Destroyer Purpose stacks vanish almost immediately) features get a few percent here, a few percent there.
This is not a rework, this is not keeping a similar overall damage. This is, gwf back to module 1, where you could barely see a couple of them trying to complete easy foundries. Most unwanted in dungeons and - Heaven forbid - in PvP.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
this extra tick there now. it is being added to the main critical damage ... yes, we lost a lot more damage than you think.
exemple your 30k is 25k. your 5k stick is added to main damage. can look in the logs. There are six sticks
hence comes a problem: these buffs are creating a large pool of damage will be mitigated by hitting multiple targets. the bleed was - among many things - a constant behind this detail.
in other words, even if your current 30k (25kibs/30kbleed) is maintained by buffs, automatically it will be lost by hitting multiple damage. this nature buffs own are leaving the strongest single gwf without bringing any value to pve.
ps: I'm pretty sure that the ibs loses damage on hit multiple targets. but there are other powers that have detail how this feature.
ps2:i not given precise numbers: this is a very strange feet.
To me the changes are fine, bringing gwf damage to the top is not the solution, we have far too much tank, even in a dps spec with dps gear we can survive almost any odds (I've soloed the adds in CN before which is rather ridiculous).
On a side note, all that needs to be done is CW damage lowered to around the same as GWFs, TRs and rangers need a huge boost too. Alot of GWFs are crying about damage, but boosting damage is not the solution, and will just invite people to using LF4M GWF instead of CW. My bigger concern is what is to be done about the 3 other classes.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Now that's not a brillant perspective for a class that has nothing but its DPS.
Having to rework all your build and rotations and gameplay
just to deliver less damage than a badly built CW with half the GS, whom you were previously out-paingivering by 3 millions.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
No one here is asking for a boost.
It's just about the claim by the devs that the damage is all in all kept the same. And players keep proving with figures and charts ( like http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?635191-Official-Feedback-Thread-Great-Weapon-Fighter-Changes&p=7606111&viewfull=1#post7606111) that this claim is wrong. By far.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Well given in this game control and debuffs are worth much more than 'tanking' ability, then I am not sure I would fully agree - just think about the relative usefulness of the GF and CW. In any case, a melee class needs a certain amount of tankiness as it is err, going to be in melee to deal any damage. Also the Destroyer path GWF, which is the only semi-decent PvE spec after these changes brings just DPS - even the group buffs are being altered.
So even if the CW DPS was drastically lowered to a similar amount to that of a TR, HR or GWF there is little point doing anything but stacking CWs as they bring so much else to the group. The other non-DC classes actually NEED to have somewhat more DPS than a CW for the 'CW LF4M CW' meta to change.
I swing my 671 top end damage sword on my GF and it hits for 1200-1400.
I swing my 2h 1000 top end damage 2H sword and it hits for 600?
Tell me im not crazy here.....
yeah gwf have strongest weapons but weakest at wills in game buffing up our at will damage would help but we lost all utily with patch even if they would buuf up gwf to do 15-20% more dps then cw none would take us since cw dont do just dps he buff,debuff,cc the best in game
Well, If they removed Unstoppable damage nerf and just reduced the attack speed slightly this would give a really nice damage boost for PVE. Then if you increase the at will damage on MOST attacks - like AOE attacks by 10-15% and made it so it has NO target cap within range AND had no DR depending on targets hit
This would make GWFs a powerhouse in PVE again. Yes CW can control/debuff but throw a GWF at will aoe spamming and popping unstoppable for even more dps... Thatll be a good team and THEN GWFs can actually hold more agro as well.
The only issue would be in PVP where unstoppable is pretty OP for Sentinels, but I think that with Deep Gash change along with SOTS nerf it may not really make a ton of difference in all honesty...
Most GWFs in pvp spam solo target at wills and even then, you hit for 600 at will, increase attack speed wont really make that OP...
Not a bad suggestion, but where would it leave the other DPS classes such as the TR and HR?
already have a few posts that I'm proposing something much simpler.
the gwf hit 1 enemy? he takes 12k damage.
if he hit 2 simultaneously, 15k per head vs 2
if he hit 3, 18k per head vs3.
and so on
all waiting for this gwf killing several enemies with high damage (I'd love to keep the single high too, but ...)
Thus, the class would improve its characteristic nuke, while it would become deficient in single combat (valindra, fulminarox, pvp).
ps:ranger still no place
Actually I think I have seen this suggested before but it is a pretty good idea.
The HR would have to have more ST DPS than the GWF but less AoE DPS (the later is almost automatic with this mechanic).
The TR would have to have a lot higher ST DPS to make up for its comparatively lackluster AoE. That could cause issues though in PvP.
Also there would have to be more 'Elite' enemies than just the boss for TRs to be useful.
all I know is I do not want to ride a build based recreate a "fast" Anvil of Doom alternating a slam power buff for... what? old combo bleed without roar ap build? GREAT idea but may not be the trump card of a destroyer. much sacrifice for an unsatisfactory result.
bf need a buff too.
TR damage could be increased by lowering the animation times of some of the at-wills, and lowering the recharge of some of the higher-damage encounter powers. Would allow for more sustained DPS without increasing spike damage in PvP.
How would this interact with perma-stealth / high-uptime stealth builds?
As for at-wills, Disheartening Strike and Gloaming Cut are both capable of pretty big damage, but they're slow, which is the tradeoff for using them. I'm not aware of either being a popular PvP choice (which is not to say they can't be viable in the right hands). Faster Disheartening Strike would probably have some people rethinking the Whisperknife.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
gwf would like a class that would have a proportionate amount of damage to enemies , he would enter as the class of higher damage potential and, as the enemies die , he would lose power. would be nice to do a quick cleaning/ nuke , being " optional " cw . better than it is today in some ways , worse in others.
the rogue would be the reverse , he would have focused on single (unlimited stack?) increasing performance . in other words , it would grow , single, in the same proportion that gwf falls , aoe . would be good for to make the fight against a much faster boss / taking care of the strongest guys .
the ranger could be a constant. he does not fall , he did not rise. he always keeps a proportion continues aoe and single. in view of the descending performance gwf in aoe and increasing in single rogue , he would never have problem of threat .
summarizing :
good gwf would be one that could sustain damage over time (hence enter this " anvil of doom combo" )
the rogue try to maximize your damage or stack speed .
and hr ... I do not know ...
when asked to gwf projection, the answer was in reference to rogue / hr. nothing more pertinent than outlining a scenario among the three classes, to justify the projection for gwf. if I said I do not know what to do with the ranger, so I'm not giving feedback on the ranger (obvious, not?)
the more'm not the first who posts on the subject. then go disturb other.
A bit strongly put but essentially correct.
Feedback about the GWF is the central topic, but when such changes affect the DPS class balance that the Devs have SPECIFICALLY said they want to maintain, then (in my opinion) it is relevant. If the Devs decide otherwise I am sure they will say so.
I'm one of the better PvE CW's in-game and I can safely say that top-tier PvE GWF's keep up or occassionally even outdamage me every once in a while. They're usually equally impressed by how I kept up. Classes are balanced as they are and they need no changes PvE-wise apart from the GF and maybe the TR.
As a matter of fact, I would almost opt for a damage buff for HR's. They're sorely lacking function in PvE and by no means will I ever pug one for my groups. GWF and CW deal far more damage (x2 minimum, assuming same level of equipment), debuff better.. Why complain HR's deal more damage when the only possible cause for this would be a sheer lack of gaming experience by the HR?
And this same concept goes for almost every complaint in the past few months. Tenebrous enchantments were not overpowered, but like any situation they would easily trample new people with no equipment. A well-specced PvP character could respond to tenebrous users accordingly. They got nerfed anyway.
Ice knives were dodgable. Why nerf this damage? Because people suck at dodging?
The list goes on and on. What I'm getting at is, the GWF needs no changes. The people who play it do. Props for the deep gash thing though, it felt overpowered.