Also to note, with some straight forward damage parsing and testing (I ran 10 tests, 5 minute interval and one 30 minute interval) deep gash came in quite consistently at around 5% of my total damage (single target for these tests). This is a very good place for a T1 feat to be sitting in given that any tree can get access to it.
Feedback: Deep gash.
I did the some tests using ACT, Iron Vanguard spec, keeping the same skill rotation and trying to do as much damage as possible during different intervals, the new deep gash is a constant 5% of the total dmg, for each 1M dmg deep gash is 50k for me, other skills like IBS, Takedown, these are hitting a lot harder meaning that our burst dmg is better, unfortunately it is not on par with the total dmg we used to do. Being honest, we all know and agree that is absurb that most of our dps came from a bug t1 feat but the way it was fixed is sending back a class that finally became very useful. Single target dmg is ok, AoE dmg is suffering a lot.
give us mark on wms with this swordmaster would at least a bit better atm we lose everything if i go to swordmaster we lose mobility,mark,damage,prone chain
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Make trample the fallen /battle trample give "attacks efected buy this reset threat(place you ontop of the threat list on that enemy) i dont mind if u take away its damage bonuses this would alow pve sent gwf and GF to do what they want to do tank
atm your nurfing a class in pve that most consider a bad paragon path and GF already only use there dps tree are you realy going to give no pve improvements to sents while taking the skill that atm lets them tank to some degree,
if you wanted sentinels to only be found in pvp going the right way about it if you want something other then destroyers to be found in pve in mod 3 please please do something about increasing sentinels ability to hold agro, like making battle trample feat or class feature cause attacks effected by it to put you at top of the agro list if only for .1 second
it would be enuff to make GF and sents somewhat viable in pve without that ppl are going to go destroyer to pve tank! cause of the agro system and lifesteal system you have atm
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
both, it doesnt matter gwf is gonna be a pvp only class in mod3. the positive side tho.... CW's and HR's gonna be dropping like flies with these bursts
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
both, it doesnt matter gwf is gonna be a pvp only class in mod3. the positive side tho.... CW's and HR's gonna be dropping like flies with these bursts
Just to make sure, Sentis get access to more burst than they have now? Please don't take the new gear into consideration for now.
Module 2 made the GWF playable. Before nearly no one wanted them. Now they deal equal damage to a CW when very good equipped. A GWF must deal damage because it is his job! HR and GWF are the damage aoe-classes. CWs should control. Control! That is what the name says. "Control" not "All"! - Rework all classes and balance them please.
The Deep Gash Rework is good. I never ever want to read "LFM VT2/2 GWF P.Vorpal only!" again. But the other changes are all on destroyer tree. Do you think anyone will play Instigator?!
"provide them a more clear play cycle that rewarded smart use of powers and Unstoppable"
And how do you reward an Instigator? Unstoppable is a general GWF Feature ;-) And who the heck plays an Sentinel in PvE (no PvP Hybrid, i mean as a pure PvE char)? There is work to do.
No, senti do not get more burst in module 3, in fact with modifications to deep gash and student of the sword they got less burst.
The only path that gets change is destroyer, and only destroyer.
Deep gash damage and student of the sword buff are reduced to 5% more damage (from 30-50% for deep gash and 15% for student of the sword).
But farther feat and capstone in destroyer tree get more damage bonus, around 30% damage bonus if you take the right feats.
So destroyer damage is a little less, 5-10% depending on previous build. Maybe more for high geared GWF.
And instigator/senti DPS is a lot less, like 33-50% less depending on build and gear. Without changes otherwise.
So destroyer damage is a little less, 5-10% depending on previous build. Maybe more for high geared GWF.
And instigator/senti DPS is a lot less, like 33-50% less depending on build and gear. Without changes otherwise.
For me the old IV Sentinel build it's not viable anymore for PVP either. The good thing about that build was the great defenses capability with a very good offensive capability. Now doing too much less damage we have to options. Stay with Sent and kill nothing or respec to destroyer and turn in a much more squishy GWF doing less dmg that we usually did.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
For me the old IV Sentinel build it's not viable anymore for PVP either. The good thing about that build was the great defenses capability with a very good offensive capability. Now doing too much less damage we have to options. Stay with Sent and kill nothing or respec to destroyer and turn in a much more squishy GWF doing less dmg that we usually did.
That looks OK to you?!? Ubertank with best PvP DPS?
both, it doesnt matter gwf is gonna be a pvp only class in mod3. the positive side tho.... CW's and HR's gonna be dropping like flies with these bursts
what are u talking??my crtics are the same as before and no longer have aditionl 4k dps for 5 sec anymore only now i need to be stacked with my self buffs and destroyer to reach this critcs while before could just do damage like this from start or be insitigator or sentinel to do even more dps in pvp
For me the old IV Sentinel build it's not viable anymore for PVP either. The good thing about that build was the great defenses capability with a very good offensive capability. Now doing too much less damage we have to options. Stay with Sent and kill nothing or respec to destroyer and turn in a much more squishy GWF doing less dmg that we usually did.
Sure IV Sentinels do less damage, but domination has little to do with killing people so having more survivability will always be more of a plus. Destroyers/Instigators will never be able to outlast a Sentinel, and will more times lose to a sentinel due to not being tanky. The problem is, without ANY burst, sentinels become just walls. 3hr premades will probably happen, because no one has great burst capabilities anymore. The way GWF is now in pvp with tenacity and healing depression is fine. Nerf deep gash and sots, and GWF will be a wall only.
If you think that your Instigator/Destroyer build can beat a sentinel, feel free to challenge me at Hold My Beer@risendragon. I'll fight anyone thinking that going a more damaging path will be a good idea in pvp.
Its not what I mean. I love my IV Sent just the way he is now. Deep Gash is a bug (check), have to be corrected (check), but I fear to roll a char that have only space at PVP. Will we have to decide, wanna play PVE (destroyer) or wanna play PVP (sentinel)?
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dissssppppMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
Make trample the fallen /battle trample give "attacks efected buy this reset threat(place you ontop of the threat list on that enemy) i dont mind if u take away its damage bonuses this would alow pve sent gwf and GF to do what they want to do tank
Pretty sure the 5 or 6 remaining GF's would have a pretty big issue with that seeing as it's one of the very few passives and feats that boost their DPS.
Its not what I mean. I love my IV Sent just the way he is now. Deep Gash is a bug (check), have to be corrected (check), but I fear to roll a char that have only space at PVP. Will we have to decide, wanna play PVE (destroyer) or wanna play PVP (sentinel)?
I don't mind having to roll a character who has a special niche to play, I mean, that is the point of rolling a specific character. I have friends who play pug-matches on their destroyers. Will they be able to compete against my sentinel? Play top-level premades? No and no. However, when it comes to facing other pve characters there is some sort of balance to the process, is there not? If everyone in the match is squishy, but high damaging, it's not like there's truly a huge difference from a match with players designed to play pvp.
Did I enjoy that my GWF could play with CN teams and VT teams? Yes. However, my GWF is specially rolled for pvp, high con and dex. My GWF will never see the damage a high STR/high DEX destroyer GWF will see. Nerfing Deep Gash is something that affects every pve build possible. My suggestion is simple: Move it to tier 4 destroyer. It makes sense no? You now have split the builds completely. SoTS should be moved to tier 2 instigator to allow any build to be able to reach the debuffs it needs, but have a tradeoff of either damage or survivability. (Instigator GWF could get the debuffs, but would have to choose between destroyer/sentinel to either boost damage or defense, Destroyer GWF same story)
However, I would only suggest this if there were also significant buffs to the Instigator tree, perhaps more across the wall debuffs of some sort.
Someone saw a GWF out damage a CW and snitched to the devs . I've played every incarnation of Neverwinter Nights from 02-14 and mage has always been the sacred cow no one can touch . Have you guys seen their change thread ? Its full of "Thanks " "Great job" "Looking forward to Playing it ". Started playing in the summer , spent countless hours and some real cash getting where I am now only to get this ? Before mod 2 I couldn't get my gwf in a pug group , and that's coming again , like others on this thread have said its gonna be "LF4M CW's " you can't break down 4 and then lift the top 1 up . My AoE's have a 5 target cap while a CW's is unlimited and its the GWF out of balance ? Deep gash change is reasonable , to me that was a bug..a very nice one . Do your little pie chart again and see what % goes CW , I won't . Maybe FallOut will go MMO by then and I'll just spend some loose cash there .
Hi, these are my little suggestion to improve sentinels at managing adds
Feedback: Sentinel Feat "Sentinel's Aegis" change to: You gain 5% of damage mitigation for every enemy beyound the first in a 10' radius and your powers gain +100% threat. This change make sentinels handle better when swarmed by adds but has little or no-difference in pvp or boss fights.
Feat "Unstoppable recovery": swap this feat with "Grudge Style" and change it like: Activating unstoppable provide you a Heal over time for 2/4/6/8/10% of your maximum health points in 5 seconds.
Power: "witched strike" change to: +100% velocity and -50% damage (this will result in no dps change, but more usable power).
Suggestion, Destroyer: increase Destroyer's purpose damage buff per-stack, reducing the duration of the stacks.
Should result, if tweaked correctly, in around a doubled damage buff, up for less time. In PvE, a damage buff is further needed unless CWs get a really consistent DPS reduction in PvE, cause the current changes DO NOT make up for the DPS loss from deep gash changes.
In PvE, Unstoppable is up 99% of the time. In PvP, expecially in 1v1 situations against good opponents, much less. My guess is that increasing the buff, and making it last for less time, would result in a DPS boost in PvE where you are continuously dealing damage and going unstoppable, with little to no impact in PvP, where most of the time you deal burst damage and don't go unstoppable as much as you do in PvE.
Suggestion, sentinel: change powerful challenge bonus. In place of the 15% flat damage buff on CCed enemies, put a huge threat generation buff linked to threat rush mark. Sentinel Aegis buff (borrowing the idea suggested above): on top of the current effect, add a 1% DR and 1% deflection buff for each enemy targeting you. Would increase the ability to tank in PvE and have little effect in PvP. In PvP, in fact, 2 enemies attacking you would give you not enough buff, while the damage you get is increased a lot. In PvE, 10 enemies would mean a 10% deflect buff and 10% DR buff, making you more resilient and a better tank.
I did some more experiments on ptr with my 15.6k gwf 8.4k power.
Feedback Deep Gash: With every combination possible of bonus damage Deep Gash is almost a useless skill, 1600-2000 damage against 150k hp mobs is really a joke.
Feedback Destroyer's Purpouse: Really good improvement but it is almost impossible have 20 stacks for every pull, less stacks with more damage would be a good balance.
Feedback SotS: It was our only debuff skill, now we cant help the party anymore since the high debuff on the dps and the lack of a good debuff.
Feedback Destroyer: Now this skill grants a good damage buff, but sadly it can replace a small burst in the total dps.
Im a bit disappointed, the GWF was useless at the beginning, then improved to a top DPS class and now he will return useless. Without the crit on Deep Gash the Half-Orc and the Vorpal will be useless since they were used to up the damage of the feat. I asked at some end game top GWFs their opinions on this massive nerf and they cant even do the 50% of the LIVE and they are full rank 9/10 + p. enchs and companions.
Someone saw a GWF out damage a CW and snitched to the devs . I've played every incarnation of Neverwinter Nights from 02-14 and mage has always been the sacred cow no one can touch . Have you guys seen their change thread ? Its full of "Thanks " "Great job" "Looking forward to Playing it ". Started playing in the summer , spent countless hours and some real cash getting where I am now only to get this ? Before mod 2 I couldn't get my gwf in a pug group , and that's coming again , like others on this thread have said its gonna be "LF4M CW's " you can't break down 4 and then lift the top 1 up . My AoE's have a 5 target cap while a CW's is unlimited and its the GWF out of balance ? Deep gash change is reasonable , to me that was a bug..a very nice one . Do your little pie chart again and see what % goes CW , I won't . Maybe FallOut will go MMO by then and I'll just spend some loose cash there .
Err, maybe I am going blind, but I can't see the thread you are referring too - do you have a link?
Especially the bit about CWs getting a buff, as given the state of the other classes on the Test realm that would be a little, err, odd, as CWs hardly need a boost in PvE, to put it mildly...
Deep gash was discussed to fix since day one of mod2.
With good rotation gwf still can do great damage and making TRs disappered from lfg since mod1...
Gwfs has nice buff compansation to unstoppable/IBS/destroyer etc for a feat which was working false in the first place.
No word was heard for buffing TRs however...
As for the topic at hand Gwfs has the best class artifact while CWs artifact are very mediocre and situational.
Gwfs also has the best offensive pet in the game the yeti. (basically 5% dmg)
Feedback Destroyer's Purpouse: Really good improvement but it is almost impossible have 20 stacks for every pull, less stacks with more damage would be a good balance.
Clearly 20 stacks is deceptive. People see 20 stacks of 1% and they think 20%. The tooltip could as well mention 200 stacks or 2000 stacks. Yes, Deep Gash was a poor answer (indirect damage hitting for more than the direct damage that triggerd it) to a true concern (the offensive Melee class was delivering less damage than any other class). Yes, Deep Gash could not be kept as is. But, the compensation for the 50% lost damage still does not exist in mod3.
It's crystal-clear that with these 20 stacks the devs tried to work-out something that would work in PvE and not in PvP. Because unlike a mob, a player does not give you the chance to hit him twenty times with your oh-so-slow sword.
But here the devs failed. as well, as no gwf will ever reach 20 stacks, unless he's only playing the foundries with mass zombies.
The 20 stacks have to be removed and the compensation for the 50% loss in damage must come from something else. Suggestion: all AtWills and Encounters get a 50% buff on non-humanoïd opponents. As simple as that.
Deep gash was discussed to fix since day one of mod2.
With good rotation gwf still can do great damage and making TRs disappered from lfg since mod1...
Gwfs has nice buff compansation to unstoppable/IBS/destroyer etc for a feat which was working false on the first place.
Oh look - another CW turning up to say the GWF nerf is a great idea.
And yet, as always is the case with such posters, no hard data on how the proposed changes will affect the GWFs. At the present time, the ACT and parsed data suggests a 40-60% reduction in DPS for the BiS GWFs. That will put GWF at somewhere between a half to a third of CW DPS, and yet certain players of that class insist on coming to this thread and saying how deserved such a nerf is?
As for the topic at hand Gwfs has the best class artifact while CWs artifact are very mediocre and situational.
Gwfs also has the best offensive pet in the game the yeti. (basically 5% dmg)
I fail to see the logic in this statement, GWF artifact like all artifacts, is not exclusive only to GWFs.
Were talking about the class here not artifacts ffs!
I did some more experiments on ptr with my 15.6k gwf 8.4k power.
Feedback Deep Gash: With every combination possible of bonus damage Deep Gash is almost a useless skill, 1600-2000 damage against 150k hp mobs is really a joke.
Feedback Destroyer's Purpouse: Really good improvement but it is almost impossible have 20 stacks for every pull, less stacks with more damage would be a good balance.
Feedback SotS: It was our only debuff skill, now we cant help the party anymore since the high debuff on the dps and the lack of a good debuff.
Feedback Destroyer: Now this skill grants a good damage buff, but sadly it can replace a small burst in the total dps.
Im a bit disappointed, the GWF was useless at the beginning, then improved to a top DPS class and now he will return useless. Without the crit on Deep Gash the Half-Orc and the Vorpal will be useless since they were used to up the damage of the feat. I asked at some end game top GWFs their opinions on this massive nerf and they cant even do the 50% of the LIVE and they are full rank 9/10 + p. enchs and companions.
Completely disagree with eve writing you said here.
Deep gash will still account for 8-11% of our total damage.
Getting 20 charges is extremely easy, even more if you have WMS.
Old SoTS 45% def = 9-10% more damage, new one is 5%, and non stacking, only real big Nerf
GWF will not be useless, if will be in the right place.
Not sure what "top" GWFs you're asking because we are only losing around 15-20% DPS not 50%.
Completely disagree with eve writing you said here.
Deep gash will still account for 8-11% of our total damage.
Getting 20 charges is extremely easy, even more if you have WMS.
Old SoTS 45% def = 9-10% more damage, new one is 5%, and non stacking, only real big Nerf
GWF will not be useless, if will be in the right place.
Not sure what "top" GWFs you're asking because we are only losing around 15-20% DPS not 50%.
Sounds to me like you're just making things up.
Sounds to me like you haven't been parsing anything yourself, or even around on preview.
Deep Gash is coming to, at best, seven percent of our damage (Out of myself and six other GWFs whom I know are running tests, now)
Will agree with the charges; why people think that's at all difficult to maintain is beyond me.
But yeah. High-end GWFs with bunches of power are taking at least a thirty-percent hit to their DPS; the higher your power the larger the amount you lose with the Gash changes. Those of us in the six to seven thousand range are only losing about twenty-five to twenty-eight percent of our Deepz from the gash changes.
The fact of the matter is that, at the moment, yes, GWFs /will/ be useless. We're losing a large part of our (passive) dps, which means we're losing a bunch of threat gen and the ability to lifesteal tank efficiently (not effectively, but it will have to be done much more carefully; gone are the days of berserker charges) and they're taking away the only team-debuff we had. So, in any party that can take a CW instead there's no reason to take a GWF (or anything else, as I'm sure you know, but that's not the topic at hand).
Any party looking to maximize speed will, at this point in the projected changes, just default to full Wizards, with possibly a debuff cleric.
Feedback: I'm still advocating an increase to the target cap on, and the removal of damage reduction per target from, all of our At-Wills. Or at least Wicked and Weapon Master Strikes. I feel like it would go quite a ways to keeping the GWF competitive on pve, and would have absolutely no detrimental effect in pvp whatever. Not to mention it would make us feel less like our swords are just magic pieces of cardboard.
It may also be a good idea to reduce the channel time of Avalanche of Steel, or to increase the duration before buffs such as Destroyer and Weapon Master start falling off. As of now, we're in the air long enough during AoS for both of these to fall off before we drop. While it's true that we're also invulnerable, and so take that as a trade off, this feels very counter intuitive to the ability's use as a damage daily.
Comments
Feedback: Deep gash.
I did the some tests using ACT, Iron Vanguard spec, keeping the same skill rotation and trying to do as much damage as possible during different intervals, the new deep gash is a constant 5% of the total dmg, for each 1M dmg deep gash is 50k for me, other skills like IBS, Takedown, these are hitting a lot harder meaning that our burst dmg is better, unfortunately it is not on par with the total dmg we used to do. Being honest, we all know and agree that is absurb that most of our dps came from a bug t1 feat but the way it was fixed is sending back a class that finally became very useful. Single target dmg is ok, AoE dmg is suffering a lot.
May I ask what spec did you test with?
atm your nurfing a class in pve that most consider a bad paragon path and GF already only use there dps tree are you realy going to give no pve improvements to sents while taking the skill that atm lets them tank to some degree,
if you wanted sentinels to only be found in pvp going the right way about it if you want something other then destroyers to be found in pve in mod 3 please please do something about increasing sentinels ability to hold agro, like making battle trample feat or class feature cause attacks effected by it to put you at top of the agro list if only for .1 second
it would be enuff to make GF and sents somewhat viable in pve without that ppl are going to go destroyer to pve tank! cause of the agro system and lifesteal system you have atm
I used Iron Vanguard. Also tested with Swordmaster but the DPS was lower.
Destroyer, Sentinel?
both, it doesnt matter gwf is gonna be a pvp only class in mod3. the positive side tho.... CW's and HR's gonna be dropping like flies with these bursts
Just to make sure, Sentis get access to more burst than they have now? Please don't take the new gear into consideration for now.
Module 2 made the GWF playable. Before nearly no one wanted them. Now they deal equal damage to a CW when very good equipped. A GWF must deal damage because it is his job! HR and GWF are the damage aoe-classes. CWs should control. Control! That is what the name says. "Control" not "All"! - Rework all classes and balance them please.
The Deep Gash Rework is good. I never ever want to read "LFM VT2/2 GWF P.Vorpal only!" again. But the other changes are all on destroyer tree. Do you think anyone will play Instigator?!
"provide them a more clear play cycle that rewarded smart use of powers and Unstoppable"
And how do you reward an Instigator? Unstoppable is a general GWF Feature ;-) And who the heck plays an Sentinel in PvE (no PvP Hybrid, i mean as a pure PvE char)? There is work to do.
//Bellistor
The only path that gets change is destroyer, and only destroyer.
Deep gash damage and student of the sword buff are reduced to 5% more damage (from 30-50% for deep gash and 15% for student of the sword).
But farther feat and capstone in destroyer tree get more damage bonus, around 30% damage bonus if you take the right feats.
So destroyer damage is a little less, 5-10% depending on previous build. Maybe more for high geared GWF.
And instigator/senti DPS is a lot less, like 33-50% less depending on build and gear. Without changes otherwise.
For me the old IV Sentinel build it's not viable anymore for PVP either. The good thing about that build was the great defenses capability with a very good offensive capability. Now doing too much less damage we have to options. Stay with Sent and kill nothing or respec to destroyer and turn in a much more squishy GWF doing less dmg that we usually did.
That looks OK to you?!? Ubertank with best PvP DPS?
Sigh...
what are u talking??my crtics are the same as before and no longer have aditionl 4k dps for 5 sec anymore only now i need to be stacked with my self buffs and destroyer to reach this critcs while before could just do damage like this from start or be insitigator or sentinel to do even more dps in pvp
Sure IV Sentinels do less damage, but domination has little to do with killing people so having more survivability will always be more of a plus. Destroyers/Instigators will never be able to outlast a Sentinel, and will more times lose to a sentinel due to not being tanky. The problem is, without ANY burst, sentinels become just walls. 3hr premades will probably happen, because no one has great burst capabilities anymore. The way GWF is now in pvp with tenacity and healing depression is fine. Nerf deep gash and sots, and GWF will be a wall only.
If you think that your Instigator/Destroyer build can beat a sentinel, feel free to challenge me at Hold My Beer@risendragon. I'll fight anyone thinking that going a more damaging path will be a good idea in pvp.
Pretty sure the 5 or 6 remaining GF's would have a pretty big issue with that seeing as it's one of the very few passives and feats that boost their DPS.
I don't mind having to roll a character who has a special niche to play, I mean, that is the point of rolling a specific character. I have friends who play pug-matches on their destroyers. Will they be able to compete against my sentinel? Play top-level premades? No and no. However, when it comes to facing other pve characters there is some sort of balance to the process, is there not? If everyone in the match is squishy, but high damaging, it's not like there's truly a huge difference from a match with players designed to play pvp.
Did I enjoy that my GWF could play with CN teams and VT teams? Yes. However, my GWF is specially rolled for pvp, high con and dex. My GWF will never see the damage a high STR/high DEX destroyer GWF will see. Nerfing Deep Gash is something that affects every pve build possible. My suggestion is simple: Move it to tier 4 destroyer. It makes sense no? You now have split the builds completely. SoTS should be moved to tier 2 instigator to allow any build to be able to reach the debuffs it needs, but have a tradeoff of either damage or survivability. (Instigator GWF could get the debuffs, but would have to choose between destroyer/sentinel to either boost damage or defense, Destroyer GWF same story)
However, I would only suggest this if there were also significant buffs to the Instigator tree, perhaps more across the wall debuffs of some sort.
Feedback: Sentinel
Feat "Sentinel's Aegis" change to: You gain 5% of damage mitigation for every enemy beyound the first in a 10' radius and your powers gain +100% threat. This change make sentinels handle better when swarmed by adds but has little or no-difference in pvp or boss fights.
Feat "Unstoppable recovery": swap this feat with "Grudge Style" and change it like: Activating unstoppable provide you a Heal over time for 2/4/6/8/10% of your maximum health points in 5 seconds.
Power: "witched strike" change to: +100% velocity and -50% damage (this will result in no dps change, but more usable power).
Sorry for my english.
Should result, if tweaked correctly, in around a doubled damage buff, up for less time. In PvE, a damage buff is further needed unless CWs get a really consistent DPS reduction in PvE, cause the current changes DO NOT make up for the DPS loss from deep gash changes.
In PvE, Unstoppable is up 99% of the time. In PvP, expecially in 1v1 situations against good opponents, much less. My guess is that increasing the buff, and making it last for less time, would result in a DPS boost in PvE where you are continuously dealing damage and going unstoppable, with little to no impact in PvP, where most of the time you deal burst damage and don't go unstoppable as much as you do in PvE.
Suggestion, sentinel: change powerful challenge bonus. In place of the 15% flat damage buff on CCed enemies, put a huge threat generation buff linked to threat rush mark. Sentinel Aegis buff (borrowing the idea suggested above): on top of the current effect, add a 1% DR and 1% deflection buff for each enemy targeting you. Would increase the ability to tank in PvE and have little effect in PvP. In PvP, in fact, 2 enemies attacking you would give you not enough buff, while the damage you get is increased a lot. In PvE, 10 enemies would mean a 10% deflect buff and 10% DR buff, making you more resilient and a better tank.
Feedback Deep Gash:
With every combination possible of bonus damage Deep Gash is almost a useless skill, 1600-2000 damage against 150k hp mobs is really a joke.
Feedback Destroyer's Purpouse:
Really good improvement but it is almost impossible have 20 stacks for every pull, less stacks with more damage would be a good balance.
Feedback SotS:
It was our only debuff skill, now we cant help the party anymore since the high debuff on the dps and the lack of a good debuff.
Feedback Destroyer:
Now this skill grants a good damage buff, but sadly it can replace a small burst in the total dps.
Im a bit disappointed, the GWF was useless at the beginning, then improved to a top DPS class and now he will return useless. Without the crit on Deep Gash the Half-Orc and the Vorpal will be useless since they were used to up the damage of the feat. I asked at some end game top GWFs their opinions on this massive nerf and they cant even do the 50% of the LIVE and they are full rank 9/10 + p. enchs and companions.
Err, maybe I am going blind, but I can't see the thread you are referring too - do you have a link?
Especially the bit about CWs getting a buff, as given the state of the other classes on the Test realm that would be a little, err, odd, as CWs hardly need a boost in PvE, to put it mildly...
With good rotation gwf still can do great damage and making TRs disappered from lfg since mod1...
Gwfs has nice buff compansation to unstoppable/IBS/destroyer etc for a feat which was working false in the first place.
No word was heard for buffing TRs however...
As for the topic at hand Gwfs has the best class artifact while CWs artifact are very mediocre and situational.
Gwfs also has the best offensive pet in the game the yeti. (basically 5% dmg)
Clearly 20 stacks is deceptive. People see 20 stacks of 1% and they think 20%. The tooltip could as well mention 200 stacks or 2000 stacks. Yes, Deep Gash was a poor answer (indirect damage hitting for more than the direct damage that triggerd it) to a true concern (the offensive Melee class was delivering less damage than any other class). Yes, Deep Gash could not be kept as is. But, the compensation for the 50% lost damage still does not exist in mod3.
It's crystal-clear that with these 20 stacks the devs tried to work-out something that would work in PvE and not in PvP. Because unlike a mob, a player does not give you the chance to hit him twenty times with your oh-so-slow sword.
But here the devs failed. as well, as no gwf will ever reach 20 stacks, unless he's only playing the foundries with mass zombies.
The 20 stacks have to be removed and the compensation for the 50% loss in damage must come from something else. Suggestion: all AtWills and Encounters get a 50% buff on non-humanoïd opponents. As simple as that.
Oh look - another CW turning up to say the GWF nerf is a great idea.
And yet, as always is the case with such posters, no hard data on how the proposed changes will affect the GWFs. At the present time, the ACT and parsed data suggests a 40-60% reduction in DPS for the BiS GWFs. That will put GWF at somewhere between a half to a third of CW DPS, and yet certain players of that class insist on coming to this thread and saying how deserved such a nerf is?
And honestly
reeks of desperately trying to post something, indeed anything at all, to show how OP GWFs are.....
(Unless the above post is sarcastic in which case I rolled a 1.)
This is relevant how? All class artifacts are account unlocked, so you can use the GWF artifact on CW and vice-versa.
I fail to see the logic in this statement, GWF artifact like all artifacts, is not exclusive only to GWFs.
Were talking about the class here not artifacts ffs!
Completely disagree with eve writing you said here.
Deep gash will still account for 8-11% of our total damage.
Getting 20 charges is extremely easy, even more if you have WMS.
Old SoTS 45% def = 9-10% more damage, new one is 5%, and non stacking, only real big Nerf
GWF will not be useless, if will be in the right place.
Not sure what "top" GWFs you're asking because we are only losing around 15-20% DPS not 50%.
Sounds to me like you're just making things up.
For destroyer's purpouse 20 secs and 20 stacks are just too much, i tried on the ptr so i know what im saying.
SotS doesnt debuff for the team anymore so its almost useless.
Sounds like you are new to the game.
Sounds to me like you haven't been parsing anything yourself, or even around on preview.
Deep Gash is coming to, at best, seven percent of our damage (Out of myself and six other GWFs whom I know are running tests, now)
Will agree with the charges; why people think that's at all difficult to maintain is beyond me.
But yeah. High-end GWFs with bunches of power are taking at least a thirty-percent hit to their DPS; the higher your power the larger the amount you lose with the Gash changes. Those of us in the six to seven thousand range are only losing about twenty-five to twenty-eight percent of our Deepz from the gash changes.
The fact of the matter is that, at the moment, yes, GWFs /will/ be useless. We're losing a large part of our (passive) dps, which means we're losing a bunch of threat gen and the ability to lifesteal tank efficiently (not effectively, but it will have to be done much more carefully; gone are the days of berserker charges) and they're taking away the only team-debuff we had. So, in any party that can take a CW instead there's no reason to take a GWF (or anything else, as I'm sure you know, but that's not the topic at hand).
Any party looking to maximize speed will, at this point in the projected changes, just default to full Wizards, with possibly a debuff cleric.
Feedback: I'm still advocating an increase to the target cap on, and the removal of damage reduction per target from, all of our At-Wills. Or at least Wicked and Weapon Master Strikes. I feel like it would go quite a ways to keeping the GWF competitive on pve, and would have absolutely no detrimental effect in pvp whatever. Not to mention it would make us feel less like our swords are just magic pieces of cardboard.
It may also be a good idea to reduce the channel time of Avalanche of Steel, or to increase the duration before buffs such as Destroyer and Weapon Master start falling off. As of now, we're in the air long enough during AoS for both of these to fall off before we drop. While it's true that we're also invulnerable, and so take that as a trade off, this feels very counter intuitive to the ability's use as a damage daily.