The short version is that I don't have a 100% exact answer for you there, but those 3 are much closer to the median performance we would like to see. And "performance to be the same" is a bit of a misleading way to put it. We would love the classes to excel in certain areas, but be desirable in their own way. So in some situations one will be better, but others not so much. If that makes sense.
Why not bring em all on par with the Control Wizard? Will the Mod 3 PVE content be just as easy as the current PVE content and thus lead to another face-rolling fest? I have faith in you guys! Don't just pull the nerf bat again, at least not to the extend you're planning right now. Not talking about us GWFs exclusively, but also about all the other planned nerfs.
One last thing. In case you won't reconsider any of the planned changes: Please make Arp correctly influence the reworked Deep Gash before bringing it to live.
The short version is that I don't have a 100% exact answer for you there, but those 3 are much closer to the median performance we would like to see. And "performance to be the same" is a bit of a misleading way to put it. We would love the classes to excel in certain areas, but be desirable in their own way. So in some situations one will be better, but others not so much. If that makes sense.
The overall problem here is dungeon design. Even if CWs are put on par with the other classes in one way or another, people will always prefer heavy AoE/CC classes to rush through trash. Tanking and single target damage is simply not needed and classes that excel in these areas are in a distinct disadvantage (for PVE that is). Of course, lowering damage, target caps all around could increase the demand because people suddenly die to aggro before they can kill stuff, but the necessary nerf to damage and CC to achieve that goal would probably be a complete overkill.
People would take TRs and GFs to a fight if the TR speeded up the boss fight more than an additional CW the trash clearing and would take a GF if there were enough CC immune mobs that presented a real threat to everyone. I think balancing the current classes in order to promote different party compositions is hard to impossible with the content available. What needs to happen is to create or adjust the content itself to cater to different classes. People take GFs to Frozen Heart because they need the aggro (although other classes can also do it, but GFs are the safe play). But who needs them in other dungeons? Who needs TRs if the time to kill Draco is completely disproportionate to the time you need to clear the dungeon? Who needs DCs (and HRs) that can majorly contribute to the survivability of the group if no adds ever touch anybody?
You actually did a great job with Malabog's Castle and Mod1. CC-immune Formorians, Boss fights were not add heavy but with heavy adds that needed to be tanked. I remember a GF was pretty much mandatory and welcomed (so was a TR).
Then Mod2 happened. Of course GWFs getting two bugged feats didn't help (although the class at that point needed a buff), but also Life Steal and Artifacts removed any need to bring a real tank or single target damage. VT is the add fest of all add fests, there is no CC-immune mob in the whole dungeon (bosses aside). I mean, seriously? Think about it. There are no CC-immune mobs. Not a single one. None. Ok, the jellys, but still.
This is where balancing has to start: The content. That or you need to adjust (or create synergies between) classes that contribute to AoE and CC.
Feats: Student of the Sword: REWORK Your Critical Strikes now lower your target's Damage Resistance to your attacks by 1/2/3/4/5%. This effect cannot stack
it dose not say u get 3 stacks now infact it says it don't stack or did I miss some thing could be I missed a post
if it dose give 3 stacks still and not broken as hell like gpf was it be 3% dps solo
instead of 9% dps party still over nerf considering you have 5 people in party its massive nerf
The overall problem here is dungeon design. Even if CWs are put on par with the other classes in one way or another, people will always prefer heavy AoE/CC classes to rush through trash. Tanking and single target damage is simply not needed and classes that excel in these areas are in a distinct disadvantage (for PVE that is). Of course, lowering damage, target caps all around could increase the demand because people suddenly die to aggro before they can kill stuff, but the necessary nerf to damage and CC to achieve that goal would probably be a complete overkill.
People would take TRs and GFs to a fight if the TR speeded up the boss fight more than an additional CW the trash clearing and would take a GF if there were enough CC immune mobs that presented a real threat to everyone. I think balancing the current classes in order to promote different party compositions is hard to impossible with the content available. What needs to happen is to create or adjust the content itself to cater to different classes. People take GFs to Frozen Heart because they need the aggro (although other classes can also do it, but GFs are the safe play). But who needs them in other dungeons? Who needs TRs if the time to kill Draco is completely disproportionate to the time you need to clear the dungeon? Who needs DCs (and HRs) that can majorly contribute to the survivability of the group if no adds ever touch anybody?
You actually did a great job with Malabog's Castle and Mod1. CC-immune Formorians, Boss fights were not add heavy but with heavy adds that needed to be tanked. I remember a GF was pretty much mandatory and welcomed (so was a TR).
Then Mod2 happened. Of course GWFs getting two bugged feats didn't help (although the class at that point needed a buff), but also Life Steal and Artifacts removed any need to bring a real tank or single target damage. VT is the add fest of all add fests, there is no CC-immune mob in the whole dungeon (bosses aside). I mean, seriously? Think about it. There are no CC-immune mobs. Not a single one. None. Ok, the jellys, but still.
This is where balancing has to start: The content. That or you need to adjust (or create synergies between) classes that contribute to AoE and CC.
Again: Strictly talking PVE.
Also help change the mechanics of the heal inside the dungeons.
If artifacts / healing potions are limited to temporary hp, you do not have another cw / gwf (module2) running like crazy into the fight. that damage he suffered invariably need a dc to cure them for real.
Admitting to be taken seriously the possibility of making enemies become temporarily immune to control the same power of different characters of the same class by "an X seconds", you will inevitably need to bring a guardian fighter / sentinel for the fight . and dc himself would have a guaranteed place in any party.
is not directly relevant to gwf subject, but it is a chance to bring all my lobbies ... hhahaha
ps:in view of changes in pvp, would be the opportunity to give a big buff to dc through Deepstone Blessing.
The short version is that I don't have a 100% exact answer for you there, but those 3 are much closer to the median performance we would like to see. And "performance to be the same" is a bit of a misleading way to put it. We would love the classes to excel in certain areas, but be desirable in their own way. So in some situations one will be better, but others not so much. If that makes sense.
If you want to achieve that you'll have to think about how debuffs should stack in this game, because the elide mobs can be easily killed by purely aoe dps characters stacking debuffs on them (when a moderate aoe damage spell hitting for 3k on the tooltip like shard of endless avalanche ends up being a mini hiroshima on each hit) - blame CWs and to a lesser extent high prophet clerics for this, making single target dps characters and tanks less desired. You may also want to rework how lifesteal works, because the same aoe dps character can self heal pulling 50 mobs at once and just using shard, oppressive force and sudden storm and heal for more than their max HPs. GWFs are also pretty strong in the lifesteal tanking area but I can't provide the kind of data you'd need.
If you want to achieve that you'll have to think about how debuffs should stack in this game, because the elide mobs can be easily killed by purely aoe dps characters stacking debuffs on them (when a moderate aoe damage spell hitting for 3k on the tooltip like shard of endless avalanche ends up being a mini hiroshima on each hit) - blame CWs and to a lesser extent high prophet clerics for this, making single target dps characters and tanks less desired. You may also want to rework how lifesteal works, because the same aoe dps character can self heal pulling 50 mobs at once and just using shard, oppressive force and sudden storm and heal for more than their max HPs. GWFs are also pretty strong in the lifesteal tanking area but I can't provide the kind of data you'd need.
I don't have exact numbers on me, but iirc, the general trend is that our healing is ~65% lifesteal in dungeons, 20-25% shield (I keep forgetting exactly what this is for non-GF chars tbh), and 5-10% regen (non-boss fight. A boss fight will bump this up a little.) This is with no healer.
With healer, Lifesteal stays at ~45% or higher for a GWF. I hope that helps prove your point. However, if you nerf lifesteal for pve, then in pvp lifesteal will become even more useless than it is now. (Damage nerf --> less lifesteal. Lifesteal = affected by healing depression --> 50% less lifesteal).
The stats for pvp change, but I haven't actually done the analysis assuming 10% on both because I dropped lifesteal from my pvp build entirely.
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zillxiaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2014
So, You are going to make bleeds do less damage. I agree that the bleed shouldn't be ~40% of my damage, but I think you are over nerfing it. Just removing the guaranteed crit cuts that number down by 60% to ~ 16% of my over all damage(I just lost almost a quarter of my damage output from the crit aspect alone let alone further reductions to it's damage. I also no longer get a guaranteed tick instead if the mob dies before second 1 the skill points were a waste yes there will be little difference on a boss from the loss of a tick, and yes you took a tick away, I will crit that mob several times before the bleed would wear off so the fact that it ticks for 5 or 6 or 90 seconds is irrelevant, it can't do damage to a dead mob so the extended duration is next to meaningless for 90% of the time.
That doesn't need to be fixed. If you want aggro control, take a GF with you. Simple.
the only GF i know that can even half hold agro endgame are conqourers(dps spec) much like it seems its going to be with GWF i have run a sentinel since launch its been the ugly kid the whole time.
recently thru clever use of feats ive been able to hold agro relativly consistantly using deepgash, which i admit u did break in its last buff making it go off atacks damage then seemingly doing 15% of said atacks damage+crit severity a tic, but just before u did that i was still basicly managing to hold agro, im a IV sentinel so i get to use trample the fallen and its feat to create threat on stuff like wiked strikes.
i run not so fast and come get it and if come get it put a crowd control tag on targets like say entangling force on tab dose then my agro gathring would be easyer atm i prettymuch only use slam so i can have some crowd control on atleast some targets all the time when im runing a GASP party that dosnt have a CW, yes ive done all bar VT in partys with no CW unfathomable as that may seem, VT u just cant get by without CW debuffs like ray of enfeblement unless all GWF's using Student of the sword, which is soon to change so i see alot more need in near future for groups that dont have all there VT gear and epic artifacts in all slots ect to have to take 3+cw to down her.
heres the spec ill be runing on PTS , keeping in mind i want me gwf to be a "tank" so not the maximum dps option of say a sm full destroyer and as ill be a pvp tank i dont worry tomuch about base hps as i tank off LS in the main.
3 deciple of strength 2 unstopable action 3 armour specialisation 3 endless assult 4 steely defence 2 wepon mastery 3 devistating critical 5 deepgash(pending seeing howmuch damage it actualy dose) depending i may endup taking both deciple of war and executioners style to 5. 5great wepon focus atm looking at taking deciple of war 5. but depending on how executioners style pans out (atm usualy only usefull on bosses as with my vorp i kill alot of stuff in partys from above the threashold were it realy scales in, (if i played pvp more id consiider it alot more heavly and skip either great wepon focuse or deep gash depending on how that pans out post mod 3) focused destroyer 5 and cap stone, then as i plan to try to remain a tank for partys ill be taking scale agility 5 and battle trample 5. ill be runing destroyer and trample the fallen as class features and will try to keep my fave alround pve bar of IBS NSF CGI this ive found only changes in some boss fights, i expect about a 40% dps rise before deep gash changes are factored in and about a 8% defence decrease that i hope is ofset via higher life steal, my tanking should be alot easyer due to higher damage for battle trample to give its 25% threat to
ive never worryed to much about damage as ive always thought myself a tank, but i did also brign a handy debuff to the party, with the death of student of the sword the only way i can see to compinsate and remain of use to the party is to increase my personal dps. Im fully ancient geared sentinel with stuff finely tuned to soft caps i run a greater vorp and i still find lesser geared SM destroyers doing 50% or more of my damage, this makes agro holding and me having any place ina party rather dificult, i run all the most usefull GWF CC to try and compinsate some for being a third wheel. without deepgashes consistant high dps im going to need more dps to hold agro, i expect the average SM destroyer is going to still give me issues holding agro and every time a shard goes in ill have to scramble to regain agro but ive learnt to do both relativly efectivly.
but i expect alot of sentinel , not that we wernt already outnumbered 3 or 5 to 1 by destroyers to take a similar path to me, or pack in trying to tank atall and just go full dps as it seems the ONLY type of tanking you want in game atm is "damage tanking"
you must remeber even with removing spike damage off split shot for eg it will still be in ppls minds for months after mod 3 that HR are "agro magnets" and will take a long time till average pug dosnt vote kick them you should of changed CW first not after further instiling in ppls minds that all other classes are inferior, even if u do change cw some time down the track its going to be months till ppl realise that other classes are as viable taking this option of balancing them last when they were already the most in need of balancing
Also Fix Ion Stone of Allure's active bonuse so it procs, i spent the ad to take it up to purple so i could increase my agro via battle trample only to find IT NEVER PROCS
on the subject of pvp threat rush is quite handy, but everything past t2 of feats adds little to pvp effect even if youve stacked your defence somehow to 50%(and youll lose alot of other stats to do that its atmost 10% added effect on ac its like 4% max the only feat past t2 of the tree of any use is weponmasters strikes and that takes time to build up, restoring stike with healing depreciation and ppls resistances especialy post tenacity is laughable a IV destroyer with a little bit in sentinel will do alot more damage in pvp especialy with the changes to executioners strike, these changes will nurf gwf in pve yes undoubtable, but i suspect they will add substancialy to there damage in pvpas destroyers purpose is on hit and 20 seconds lasting u should be able to build it quite fast using sure strike then find a target to charge within 20 seconds to hit with threatening rush, prone lock has always been the way gf and gwf kill ppl, including other gf/gwf in pvp, as i insist on runing avatar of war i cant have a full pronelock pvp bar i use battle furry to get my 3 stacks when i join combat, its not such a bad loss if im runign bravery i can rundown a epic mount if im close(i find stuff is uneffected by CC most of the time in pugs in pvp so its rare for me to run trample the fallen there), i then run IBS and TD and i dont see these changes doing to much except making pve sentinels like me go to destroyer tree for pve and in process finding significantly more dps for pvp with a realtivly slight loss of defence and a minor power loss as we change jewlry out for stuff that offers more defence less power. luckly as i have all my gear ill be relativly uneffected by the inevitable switch back to, we dont want a gwf were goign to do 5 cw run its faster or if u have a HP DC and know how to use it well take you if you can switch right now
Feedback : Student of the Sword
As it is, Student of the Sword gives 5% bonus damage by stack up to 15% at max stack (3) for everyone that hits the person debuffed by Student of the Sword.
Maybe the bonus damage is to high, but this feat is really desirable for teamplay. I would have made it a 9% at max stack and let the bonus be shared by others.
And I really mean it, GWF have few buffs/debuffs that can be useful to other team members, Student of the sword was one of these and a great one. Don't make it a personnal buff, let it be a team buff
Feedback : Deep Gash
I am aware that this feat is actually broken, and no single tier 1 feat should give 30% more DPS if not more.
But as it is, this feat allows GWF to be desirable for team to do Dungeon, as it makes GWF DPS on par with Control Wizards (a little less less if you ask, but it's by a small margin), it also greatly helps to hold threat as Sent GWF as the tools we get to hold threat are just laughable.
Feedback : Destroyer path
The changes are nice, but why haven't you made so for Instigator and Sentinel too ?
You've reworked Student of the Sword and Deep Gash so that they give now roughly 5% bonus damage each (from 15% for SoS and 30-40% for Deep gash) reducing all GWF DPS by 25-33%, you gave part of this DPS back to Destroyer but nothing for Instigator and Sentinel ? You want us all to respec Destroyer ? because that's what we'll do
Feedback : Instigator path
With the changes to Destroyer, they need more work to be attractive, especially the last feat Instigator Vengeance. For example, make it so that each time an ally is hit it gives 1% bonus damage up to 20% max, and each time the instigator is hit it takes 1% more damage
from this monster/opponent up to 5% max.
Feedback : Sentinel path
Same as Instigator, with the Destroyer changes, it needs work to be attractive. The tanking part is good, it's the threat part that's not enough. Maybe give Powerful Challenge an additionnal 15% more threat ? or double/triple the bonus threat from battle trample, Intimidation and Defiance.
Feedback : General
You've reduced Student of the sword (I'll say it again, please let the bonus be shared by other players) and Deep Gash bonus damage and make destroyer feat farther in the tree more powerful. That's nice, for Destroyer but for Instigator and Sentinel ?
If you want all three path to be equally viable, you should modify the three ones at the same time not just one.
For me, Instigator are all about AOE damage and buff/debuffs give them more to compensate as you've done for Destroyer. And rework instigator vengeance, we're GWF, masters of hand to hand combat we're bound to take lots of damage regardless of the path we choose, so giving instigator a damage bonus when they aren't hit is like no bonus at all.
Sentinel, As i see it, are tanks, those that could replace GF. They should not take damage as well as GF, and should not hold threat like them, but they should do the job of tank. As it is, they take damage quite well, nothing to change there, they just have near to no tolls to hold threat, no easy marks, unless you take Iron vanguard path, and near to no bonus threat.
Destroyer are brute damage, i think you've done a good work there, but without touching Instigator or Sentinel, you just gave us no choice, it's Destroyer or nothing.
I havent read through all the pages of this thread but I've read on the Dev tracker that threat generation is something that they are currently working on to help the Tanking side of GWFs and GF's alike.
I run an HR and a TR. which many times I have been on the receiving end of mob attacks even after I have waited to let our tank attempt to gain threat.
I have not played a GWF, nor GF to know the mechanics of how their threat generation works but from previous experience in many other MMO's I have played.
Suggestions that could possible help this:
1. it seems to reason that a strong Ranged single target and/or AoE attack needs to be added or if the classes already have this ability the damage or threat generation needs to be increased.
2. Threat generating Enchant stones. players who tank would be more apt to spend 3-5g to switch a couple of stones to gain Threat generation for PVE. vs. blowing 100k AD -> buy 300 Zen -> spend 5 minutes just to switch out powers, feats, etc.. just for an Epic.
3. make the threat reduction feat in classes stronger so they are worth taking.. tbh when you have a player who plays PVP as much as PVE, they are most likely not going to waste 3 feat points on a 6% threat reduction (HR Battlewise) when it seems to not make enough of a difference in a PVE scenario when those points are better applied to DPS for PVPing and PVE.
4. Threat reduction enchant stones for the DPS / Healing classes. I'm more apt to spend 3-5g to switch a couple of stones to gain Threat reduction for PVE. vs. blowing 100k AD -> buy 300 Zen -> spend 5 minutes just to switch out powers, feats, etc.. just for an Epic.
2. Threat generating Enchant stones. players who tank would be more apt to spend 3-5g to switch a couple of stones to gain Threat generation for PVE. vs. blowing 100k AD -> buy 300 Zen -> spend 5 minutes just to switch out powers, feats, etc.. just for an Epic.
4. Threat reduction enchant stones for the DPS / Healing classes. I'm more apt to spend 3-5g to switch a couple of stones to gain Threat reduction for PVE. vs. blowing 100k AD -> buy 300 Zen -> spend 5 minutes just to switch out powers, feats, etc.. just for an Epic.
Interesting ideas. Wonder if these would be best placed in utility, damage or defense slots?
Among other things... I still don't see this on the NeverwinterPreview realm...
Feats: Student of the Sword: REWORK Your Critical Strikes now lower your target's Damage Resistance to your attacks by 1/2/3/4/5%. This effect cannot stack.
Am I missing something? The feat looks the same as it always has to me.
mconosrep;7588851]"Interesting ideas. Wonder if these would be best placed in utility, damage or defense slots?"
I am a GF.I find these ideas pretty horrible for my class.
That means
1) every day we will spend 5g just to cover the usual GWF/TR /HR stupidity in dungeons that run ahead of us before we use enforced threat inside mobs.And then they complain "take that mobs from me!"
2)Sometimes we might even forget these or run out of money and we go for pvp with enchant threat stones instead of power.Good for you eh???pretty cool
My suggestion.
Since you recognize that more damage give more threat i suggest this :
Special damage multipliers for GFs.No prob we will change them in pvp...nice ?
Among other things... I still don't see this on the NeverwinterPreview realm...
Feats: Student of the Sword: REWORK Your Critical Strikes now lower your target's Damage Resistance to your attacks by 1/2/3/4/5%. This effect cannot stack.
Am I missing something? The feat looks the same as it always has to me.
Its not on preview yet, that is what you are missing. The connection issues on Friday delayed it to sometime this week (I'm assuming today or tomorrow).
mconosrep;7588851]"Interesting ideas. Wonder if these would be best placed in utility, damage or defense slots?"
I am a GF.I find these ideas pretty horrible for my class.
That means
1) every day we will spend 5g just to cover the usual GWF/TR /HR stupidity in dungeons that run ahead of us before we use enforced threat inside mobs.And then they complain "take that mobs from me!"
2)Sometimes we might even forget these or run out of money and we go for pvp with enchant threat stones instead of power.Good for you eh???pretty cool
My suggestion.
Since you recognize that more damage give more threat i suggest this : Special damage multipliers for GFs.No prob we will change them in pvp...nice ?
This works too of course.
The 'threat' enhancements would simply be there as an additional source of threat generation for PvE focused GFs.
The short version is that I don't have a 100% exact answer for you there, but those 3 are much closer to the median performance we would like to see. And "performance to be the same" is a bit of a misleading way to put it. We would love the classes to excel in certain areas, but be desirable in their own way. So in some situations one will be better, but others not so much. If that makes sense.
Basically the power-feeling of TR/GWF/HR is where every class should be. Now that they are getting toned back (TR stealth change TBD) they still have their own pros and cons. The Sent GWF is an amazing tank but their damage is getting a tone down. HRs still have alot of utility and are strong but their single target burst (fox) is toned back alot. Perma TRs are going to be less effective once stealth changes.
So in comparison this will bring the other classes UP a little bit, although I think alot needs to happen with GF/DC/CW to bring them on the same level of HR/GWF/TR
DC - Could use more group utility
GF - Honestly the only change to this class needs to be block works more like stamina - Its not number of hits or damage of hits you take blocks it, but purely duration is what drains block meter. This removes the endless stalemate GF vs GF and also significantly boosts GF effectiveness when played right. Can keep the "block meter" and treat it like a stealth meter - refills and drains while being used, but is toggled. Base duration 5 seconds feats/features/armor can extend that much like a TR.
CW - Needs less AOE dmg, more control-abilities. If it were up to me, EVERY cw ability would have "control" aspects to it, but some would deal more damage/less control others and some would deal more control/less dmg. Overall CWs will be control masters with less damage abilities making it so more than 1/2 in a PVE party is less favorable and that a CW in PVP is ideal for their ability to control targets.
"GF - Honestly the only change to this class needs to be block works more like stamina - Its not number of hits or damage of hits you take blocks it, but purely duration is what drains block meter. This removes the endless stalemate GF vs GF and also significantly boosts GF effectiveness when played right"
How a proposed "nerf",yes that is what you propose an actual decrease of the sole advantage of a GF in the game will improve his uselfullness??I don't get it.
Delzoun crypt boss has red ground attack for ever(1-1,5 sec) and the 20K hit is impossible to project.We need to have F1 pilots reflexes to use our shield?
Same with the animated non red slash attack of the pitrate boses.CC and Pk.They do not have the red indicator they just happen.15k each.
What about PVP?How a GF will fight a GWF during unstoppable????That is exactly 5 secs.
GF needs dmg boost aggro boost and survivability boost in that order.
Basically the power-feeling of TR/GWF/HR is where every class should be. Now that they are getting toned back (TR stealth change TBD) they still have their own pros and cons. The Sent GWF is an amazing tank but their damage is getting a tone down. HRs still have alot of utility and are strong but their single target burst (fox) is toned back alot. Perma TRs are going to be less effective once stealth changes.
So in comparison this will bring the other classes UP a little bit, although I think alot needs to happen with GF/DC/CW to bring them on the same level of HR/GWF/TR
DC - Could use more group utility
GF - Honestly the only change to this class needs to be block works more like stamina - Its not number of hits or damage of hits you take blocks it, but purely duration is what drains block meter. This removes the endless stalemate GF vs GF and also significantly boosts GF effectiveness when played right. Can keep the "block meter" and treat it like a stealth meter - refills and drains while being used, but is toggled. Base duration 5 seconds feats/features/armor can extend that much like a TR.
CW - Needs less AOE dmg, more control-abilities. If it were up to me, EVERY cw ability would have "control" aspects to it, but some would deal more damage/less control others and some would deal more control/less dmg. Overall CWs will be control masters with less damage abilities making it so more than 1/2 in a PVE party is less favorable and that a CW in PVP is ideal for their ability to control targets.
That GF vs. GF is endless stalemate encounter is good. That show, that Tank vs. Tank can't really kill each other. If noone make errors or use good strategy, then other results are plain false. The blockmeter is the only pro point for being a Tactician and especially Protector superior to a Conqueror. If you change this, what sense make it to play especially Protectors? Protector don't really buff the team - as the Tac do - or do great damage - as the Con do -. Only the defense is better - only small in comparison -, and this is the only + for the useful block.
Second the balance issue arise with a 'stamina' block meter. Con go for 1s into it - blocking big impacts and go out of it. So 20% lose of its capstone. Really? Only 20% for blocking multiple hits?
0
inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Hi devs
40% of my damage on live, after respecing into a full glass cannon Dest build to maximize dps.
Intended?
Going way out on a limb here and going to assume it's not your intention to make GWFs worse than they were from open beta through Mod 1, which is what they are currently on preview since you nerfed anim cancel with mod 2 (but gave us deep gash to make up for it).
Suggestions:
It takes too long to build dest stacks for such a short duration buff. This buff should be hardcoded, 20% more dmg while unstoppable, and not require stacks. Then i'm only losing 50% of my live dmg instead of 60%.
Student of the Sword nerf needs to be erased, there's nothing wrong with it and it's our only group utility, everyone does 15% more dmg on mobs which we've crit 3 times, with our small target caps this wasn't huge overall, like 5% party dmg buff, but it was something that we brought to the group and a way for us to increase our own dmg by up to 15%.
Since the concern is obviously PVP oriented, please double the target caps on our aoe at wills, ie wicked and WMS to 10 instead of 5. it has no impact on PVP while still slightly improving our situation in PVE from where you are putting us with this class destroying nerf.
So yeah, when is this mod aka CW Online coming to live?
this nerf is just to much after some testing and playing i can see destroyer dps to do some 30% less dps at least and ty to lose of student we will be a lot less usefull can pls roll back student of the sword
istigator tree is now totaly usless it was worse then destroyer before but now is a lot worse
we need higher damage and caps on aoe encounters and our at wills need at least 20% damage boost to be at least solid class
improve swordmaster
40% of my damage on live, after respecing into a full glass cannon Dest build to maximize dps. It takes too long to build dest stacks for such a short duration buff. This buff should be hardcoded, 20% more dmg while unstoppable, and not require stacks. Then i'm only losing 50% of my live dmg instead of 60%.
Intended?
So yeah, when is this mod aka CW Online coming to live?
This. Basically nothing to add.
Sots is nigh worthless as well now. Especially the lost crit chance on this feat hurts a LOT.
And deep gash... well - don't get me started at this. 250 ticks with ~7k power unbuffed on a dummy (no mitigation). Are you even serious? Might as well just remove any effect completely. The icing on the cake: Arp doesn't work with it - not that it would change much.
A "fix" to DG was needed, but the "buff" of the other feats just doesn't make up for it even remotely. Furthermore, thanks to this my GWF is now much like me IRL - always down for chuggin a beer respectively a health potion in his case.
Thank god I have a decently geared CW*. And the most fun I ever had in this game - with my PVE only GWF - now appears to be over. Yay, finally!
*) But any "fun" with this guy will be over soon as well, I assume? Yay again!
as you know, one that says cutting the feet contdown 25% does not decrease by 25%. in other words, my own countdown rendless battle + savage advanced not put my battle fury in for 5/6 sec, but 11.2.
sorry, but nothing in this change works.
ps:destroyer porpose (edit) give a low, low damage bonus now. I await a patch with profound changes to gwf.
ibs+ focused destroyer (this bonus since the beta was higher than promised ... and yet the gwf sucked.)
ibs+destroyer porpose (no, I do not confuse the picture).:
ibs+destroyer porpose+focused destroyer:
ps:my damage is lower than that supposedly says the tooltip. numbers are inflated without any real content. Another time I post feedback from countdowns.
ps:I made a new test with the executioner style. the enemy could be with so low hp to take damage, the feet becomes redundant.
ps2:My critics of reaping strike currently make 11k. even considering the loss of base damage and bleed , is a VERY high damage decline.
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited March 2014
Hi dear devs this nerf is too much you decrased deep gash from 20k dmg to 1000 dmg nice work thx for anithing and agan nobody will take GWF for any dungeon also i noticed after changing to destroyer path not even one of sentinel skills "feats" work not even one also daring shout dont give any determinaton this class is agan total broken also contra all class nerf the TR perma hide cannot be killed we try to kill it with 12 ppl and we dont even get it to 10%...... no comment here .Gwf can be killed with 1 TR where is here the class balace ???????
I still think, the real reason why some classes hit too hard is because of perfect vorpals. +50% critical damage is just too much, compared to what other enchantments give. 30% damage would still be too much.
This enchant is the root of every dps related problem.
About effective Destroyer dps on the preview shard right now:
I just did an actual CN test run with the new gwf changes on preview with 2x support cw + 2x high dps cw and am sad to report a destroyer GWF is completely unable to compete with high dps CW after the rework. The deep gash pretty much doubled our dps before, and the slight buffs (such as the new destroyer capstone and class feature) just don't make up for that. As it stands, if the changes go live as they are the only real high end DPS class will be CW. The student of the sword party benefit will also be gone, so there will be little reason to replace a CW with a GWF.
My question would be: is the CW intended to be the only high end PvE DPS class which nobody should be able to compete against?
My question would be: is the CW intended to be the only high end PvE DPS class which nobody should be able to compete against?
Or more precisely the only high end PvE DPS class which nobody should be able to compete against that also has the best control abilities and debuffs. Finally don't forget 'pushes'.....
well i tested lil out on dread ring found deep gash doing about 160 a hit on golums (armour pen dosnt effect it even now)after id gone and speced to destroyer to get that added damage (runing destroyer and tample the fallen class encounters with 10 points in sentinel to get battle trample, then i tested it in new zone against some of the new enemys and found it doing like 120 a tic vs giants, long story short i droped it all together in favour of the upto 30% damage on IBS, the silver lining of this masive reduction in my aoe and therefore treat holding in dungeons is my IBS now can crit for almost 2x what it used to and takedown crits up to 15k without any team buffing so i forsee me being a bit beter at bursting ppl in pvp(used to crit for like 4-5k) but over all even as a 15k gwf(used to be 14.6, destoryer offers more gs increasing feats then sent) my AOE damage has gone down 50-80% my single target has almost doubled though.
as for wepon enchants a destroyer and theres only goign to be destroyers even moderatly viable as "tank" specs due to needs a certain amount of damage to be top of agro list there not going to be able to stack crit past about 36% i have a full dex elf with 3000+ crit and its 36% so u devide vorperals damage by about 3 and u find its less consistant damage then say lightning, whats its necisery for is geting those spikes to put yourself at the top of the agro list, which is steadly becoming harder and harder for any "tank" to do
so it may not make endbosses quite as hard as id feared althow lacking student of sword and remebering i was geting out dps'ed 3-4 fold but fully setup CW or destroyer gwf before nurf and 2 fold by lower geared destroyers its going to make it very hard to get a group except amoungst friends and with no team utility atall very little ability to hold agro via threat being based solely on dps+threat modifyers ill be able to tank maybe 1 enemy out of a group.
CW will be tanking the rest(and lets face it someone has to or u wipe), on + side i lost like 7% mitigation 10% deflect 7.5% crit and almost doubled my base damage so i should hit quite a bit beter in pvp and with unstopable coming from damage control and damage received now i should be cc immune quite a bit more, but full sentinel is now totaly unviable for pve, even my 12k cw's smoulder crit hits for 900+ damage so deep gash is never going to hold agro and with my target caps im never going to hit enuff targets often enuff to not have most of room chasing dps, i may be able to tank 1 or 2 enemys from a group the rest will be being dealt with by cw, im not callign for a nurf on CW though id like to see classes buffed so ppl arnt forced to take 3 or 4 cw and then 1 tag along , yes some ppl that already have all there gear find content to easy, but the 98% that dont often strugle still your time "balancing" would have been beter spent making a 18Kgs+ epic dungeon then the ppl that wont be to badly efected by this would of been happy and the vast majority that are seriously effected by this could of had some hope of geting to the gear scores of the 2%
why we even bother making anything bar cw when even fully geared were still going to be useless to group escapes me but i guess im not only 1 that preferes some variety
Comments
Why not bring em all on par with the Control Wizard? Will the Mod 3 PVE content be just as easy as the current PVE content and thus lead to another face-rolling fest? I have faith in you guys! Don't just pull the nerf bat again, at least not to the extend you're planning right now. Not talking about us GWFs exclusively, but also about all the other planned nerfs.
One last thing. In case you won't reconsider any of the planned changes: Please make Arp correctly influence the reworked Deep Gash before bringing it to live.
The overall problem here is dungeon design. Even if CWs are put on par with the other classes in one way or another, people will always prefer heavy AoE/CC classes to rush through trash. Tanking and single target damage is simply not needed and classes that excel in these areas are in a distinct disadvantage (for PVE that is). Of course, lowering damage, target caps all around could increase the demand because people suddenly die to aggro before they can kill stuff, but the necessary nerf to damage and CC to achieve that goal would probably be a complete overkill.
People would take TRs and GFs to a fight if the TR speeded up the boss fight more than an additional CW the trash clearing and would take a GF if there were enough CC immune mobs that presented a real threat to everyone. I think balancing the current classes in order to promote different party compositions is hard to impossible with the content available. What needs to happen is to create or adjust the content itself to cater to different classes. People take GFs to Frozen Heart because they need the aggro (although other classes can also do it, but GFs are the safe play). But who needs them in other dungeons? Who needs TRs if the time to kill Draco is completely disproportionate to the time you need to clear the dungeon? Who needs DCs (and HRs) that can majorly contribute to the survivability of the group if no adds ever touch anybody?
You actually did a great job with Malabog's Castle and Mod1. CC-immune Formorians, Boss fights were not add heavy but with heavy adds that needed to be tanked. I remember a GF was pretty much mandatory and welcomed (so was a TR).
Then Mod2 happened. Of course GWFs getting two bugged feats didn't help (although the class at that point needed a buff), but also Life Steal and Artifacts removed any need to bring a real tank or single target damage. VT is the add fest of all add fests, there is no CC-immune mob in the whole dungeon (bosses aside). I mean, seriously? Think about it. There are no CC-immune mobs. Not a single one. None. Ok, the jellys, but still.
This is where balancing has to start: The content. That or you need to adjust (or create synergies between) classes that contribute to AoE and CC.
Again: Strictly talking PVE.
it dose not say u get 3 stacks now infact it says it don't stack or did I miss some thing could be I missed a post
if it dose give 3 stacks still and not broken as hell like gpf was it be 3% dps solo
instead of 9% dps party still over nerf considering you have 5 people in party its massive nerf
Also help change the mechanics of the heal inside the dungeons.
If artifacts / healing potions are limited to temporary hp, you do not have another cw / gwf (module2) running like crazy into the fight. that damage he suffered invariably need a dc to cure them for real.
Admitting to be taken seriously the possibility of making enemies become temporarily immune to control the same power of different characters of the same class by "an X seconds", you will inevitably need to bring a guardian fighter / sentinel for the fight . and dc himself would have a guaranteed place in any party.
is not directly relevant to gwf subject, but it is a chance to bring all my lobbies ... hhahaha
ps:in view of changes in pvp, would be the opportunity to give a big buff to dc through Deepstone Blessing.
If you want to achieve that you'll have to think about how debuffs should stack in this game, because the elide mobs can be easily killed by purely aoe dps characters stacking debuffs on them (when a moderate aoe damage spell hitting for 3k on the tooltip like shard of endless avalanche ends up being a mini hiroshima on each hit) - blame CWs and to a lesser extent high prophet clerics for this, making single target dps characters and tanks less desired. You may also want to rework how lifesteal works, because the same aoe dps character can self heal pulling 50 mobs at once and just using shard, oppressive force and sudden storm and heal for more than their max HPs. GWFs are also pretty strong in the lifesteal tanking area but I can't provide the kind of data you'd need.
I don't have exact numbers on me, but iirc, the general trend is that our healing is ~65% lifesteal in dungeons, 20-25% shield (I keep forgetting exactly what this is for non-GF chars tbh), and 5-10% regen (non-boss fight. A boss fight will bump this up a little.) This is with no healer.
With healer, Lifesteal stays at ~45% or higher for a GWF. I hope that helps prove your point. However, if you nerf lifesteal for pve, then in pvp lifesteal will become even more useless than it is now. (Damage nerf --> less lifesteal. Lifesteal = affected by healing depression --> 50% less lifesteal).
The stats for pvp change, but I haven't actually done the analysis assuming 10% on both because I dropped lifesteal from my pvp build entirely.
recently thru clever use of feats ive been able to hold agro relativly consistantly using deepgash, which i admit u did break in its last buff making it go off atacks damage then seemingly doing 15% of said atacks damage+crit severity a tic, but just before u did that i was still basicly managing to hold agro, im a IV sentinel so i get to use trample the fallen and its feat to create threat on stuff like wiked strikes.
i run not so fast and come get it and if come get it put a crowd control tag on targets like say entangling force on tab dose then my agro gathring would be easyer atm i prettymuch only use slam so i can have some crowd control on atleast some targets all the time when im runing a GASP party that dosnt have a CW, yes ive done all bar VT in partys with no CW unfathomable as that may seem, VT u just cant get by without CW debuffs like ray of enfeblement unless all GWF's using Student of the sword, which is soon to change so i see alot more need in near future for groups that dont have all there VT gear and epic artifacts in all slots ect to have to take 3+cw to down her.
heres the spec ill be runing on PTS , keeping in mind i want me gwf to be a "tank" so not the maximum dps option of say a sm full destroyer and as ill be a pvp tank i dont worry tomuch about base hps as i tank off LS in the main.
3 deciple of strength 2 unstopable action 3 armour specialisation 3 endless assult 4 steely defence 2 wepon mastery 3 devistating critical 5 deepgash(pending seeing howmuch damage it actualy dose) depending i may endup taking both deciple of war and executioners style to 5. 5great wepon focus atm looking at taking deciple of war 5. but depending on how executioners style pans out (atm usualy only usefull on bosses as with my vorp i kill alot of stuff in partys from above the threashold were it realy scales in, (if i played pvp more id consiider it alot more heavly and skip either great wepon focuse or deep gash depending on how that pans out post mod 3) focused destroyer 5 and cap stone, then as i plan to try to remain a tank for partys ill be taking scale agility 5 and battle trample 5. ill be runing destroyer and trample the fallen as class features and will try to keep my fave alround pve bar of IBS NSF CGI this ive found only changes in some boss fights, i expect about a 40% dps rise before deep gash changes are factored in and about a 8% defence decrease that i hope is ofset via higher life steal, my tanking should be alot easyer due to higher damage for battle trample to give its 25% threat to
ive never worryed to much about damage as ive always thought myself a tank, but i did also brign a handy debuff to the party, with the death of student of the sword the only way i can see to compinsate and remain of use to the party is to increase my personal dps. Im fully ancient geared sentinel with stuff finely tuned to soft caps i run a greater vorp and i still find lesser geared SM destroyers doing 50% or more of my damage, this makes agro holding and me having any place ina party rather dificult, i run all the most usefull GWF CC to try and compinsate some for being a third wheel. without deepgashes consistant high dps im going to need more dps to hold agro, i expect the average SM destroyer is going to still give me issues holding agro and every time a shard goes in ill have to scramble to regain agro but ive learnt to do both relativly efectivly.
but i expect alot of sentinel , not that we wernt already outnumbered 3 or 5 to 1 by destroyers to take a similar path to me, or pack in trying to tank atall and just go full dps as it seems the ONLY type of tanking you want in game atm is "damage tanking"
you must remeber even with removing spike damage off split shot for eg it will still be in ppls minds for months after mod 3 that HR are "agro magnets" and will take a long time till average pug dosnt vote kick them you should of changed CW first not after further instiling in ppls minds that all other classes are inferior, even if u do change cw some time down the track its going to be months till ppl realise that other classes are as viable taking this option of balancing them last when they were already the most in need of balancing
Also Fix Ion Stone of Allure's active bonuse so it procs, i spent the ad to take it up to purple so i could increase my agro via battle trample only to find IT NEVER PROCS
As it is, Student of the Sword gives 5% bonus damage by stack up to 15% at max stack (3) for everyone that hits the person debuffed by Student of the Sword.
Maybe the bonus damage is to high, but this feat is really desirable for teamplay. I would have made it a 9% at max stack and let the bonus be shared by others.
And I really mean it, GWF have few buffs/debuffs that can be useful to other team members, Student of the sword was one of these and a great one. Don't make it a personnal buff, let it be a team buff
Feedback : Deep Gash
I am aware that this feat is actually broken, and no single tier 1 feat should give 30% more DPS if not more.
But as it is, this feat allows GWF to be desirable for team to do Dungeon, as it makes GWF DPS on par with Control Wizards (a little less less if you ask, but it's by a small margin), it also greatly helps to hold threat as Sent GWF as the tools we get to hold threat are just laughable.
Feedback : Destroyer path
The changes are nice, but why haven't you made so for Instigator and Sentinel too ?
You've reworked Student of the Sword and Deep Gash so that they give now roughly 5% bonus damage each (from 15% for SoS and 30-40% for Deep gash) reducing all GWF DPS by 25-33%, you gave part of this DPS back to Destroyer but nothing for Instigator and Sentinel ? You want us all to respec Destroyer ? because that's what we'll do
Feedback : Instigator path
With the changes to Destroyer, they need more work to be attractive, especially the last feat Instigator Vengeance. For example, make it so that each time an ally is hit it gives 1% bonus damage up to 20% max, and each time the instigator is hit it takes 1% more damage
from this monster/opponent up to 5% max.
Feedback : Sentinel path
Same as Instigator, with the Destroyer changes, it needs work to be attractive. The tanking part is good, it's the threat part that's not enough. Maybe give Powerful Challenge an additionnal 15% more threat ? or double/triple the bonus threat from battle trample, Intimidation and Defiance.
Feedback : General
You've reduced Student of the sword (I'll say it again, please let the bonus be shared by other players) and Deep Gash bonus damage and make destroyer feat farther in the tree more powerful. That's nice, for Destroyer but for Instigator and Sentinel ?
If you want all three path to be equally viable, you should modify the three ones at the same time not just one.
For me, Instigator are all about AOE damage and buff/debuffs give them more to compensate as you've done for Destroyer. And rework instigator vengeance, we're GWF, masters of hand to hand combat we're bound to take lots of damage regardless of the path we choose, so giving instigator a damage bonus when they aren't hit is like no bonus at all.
Sentinel, As i see it, are tanks, those that could replace GF. They should not take damage as well as GF, and should not hold threat like them, but they should do the job of tank. As it is, they take damage quite well, nothing to change there, they just have near to no tolls to hold threat, no easy marks, unless you take Iron vanguard path, and near to no bonus threat.
Destroyer are brute damage, i think you've done a good work there, but without touching Instigator or Sentinel, you just gave us no choice, it's Destroyer or nothing.
I run an HR and a TR. which many times I have been on the receiving end of mob attacks even after I have waited to let our tank attempt to gain threat.
I have not played a GWF, nor GF to know the mechanics of how their threat generation works but from previous experience in many other MMO's I have played.
Suggestions that could possible help this:
1. it seems to reason that a strong Ranged single target and/or AoE attack needs to be added or if the classes already have this ability the damage or threat generation needs to be increased.
2. Threat generating Enchant stones. players who tank would be more apt to spend 3-5g to switch a couple of stones to gain Threat generation for PVE. vs. blowing 100k AD -> buy 300 Zen -> spend 5 minutes just to switch out powers, feats, etc.. just for an Epic.
3. make the threat reduction feat in classes stronger so they are worth taking.. tbh when you have a player who plays PVP as much as PVE, they are most likely not going to waste 3 feat points on a 6% threat reduction (HR Battlewise) when it seems to not make enough of a difference in a PVE scenario when those points are better applied to DPS for PVPing and PVE.
4. Threat reduction enchant stones for the DPS / Healing classes. I'm more apt to spend 3-5g to switch a couple of stones to gain Threat reduction for PVE. vs. blowing 100k AD -> buy 300 Zen -> spend 5 minutes just to switch out powers, feats, etc.. just for an Epic.
Interesting ideas. Wonder if these would be best placed in utility, damage or defense slots?
Feats: Student of the Sword: REWORK Your Critical Strikes now lower your target's Damage Resistance to your attacks by 1/2/3/4/5%. This effect cannot stack.
Am I missing something? The feat looks the same as it always has to me.
I am a GF.I find these ideas pretty horrible for my class.
That means
1) every day we will spend 5g just to cover the usual GWF/TR /HR stupidity in dungeons that run ahead of us before we use enforced threat inside mobs.And then they complain "take that mobs from me!"
2)Sometimes we might even forget these or run out of money and we go for pvp with enchant threat stones instead of power.Good for you eh???pretty cool
My suggestion.
Since you recognize that more damage give more threat i suggest this :
Special damage multipliers for GFs.No prob we will change them in pvp...nice ?
Its not on preview yet, that is what you are missing. The connection issues on Friday delayed it to sometime this week (I'm assuming today or tomorrow).
This works too of course.
The 'threat' enhancements would simply be there as an additional source of threat generation for PvE focused GFs.
Basically the power-feeling of TR/GWF/HR is where every class should be. Now that they are getting toned back (TR stealth change TBD) they still have their own pros and cons. The Sent GWF is an amazing tank but their damage is getting a tone down. HRs still have alot of utility and are strong but their single target burst (fox) is toned back alot. Perma TRs are going to be less effective once stealth changes.
So in comparison this will bring the other classes UP a little bit, although I think alot needs to happen with GF/DC/CW to bring them on the same level of HR/GWF/TR
DC - Could use more group utility
GF - Honestly the only change to this class needs to be block works more like stamina - Its not number of hits or damage of hits you take blocks it, but purely duration is what drains block meter. This removes the endless stalemate GF vs GF and also significantly boosts GF effectiveness when played right. Can keep the "block meter" and treat it like a stealth meter - refills and drains while being used, but is toggled. Base duration 5 seconds feats/features/armor can extend that much like a TR.
CW - Needs less AOE dmg, more control-abilities. If it were up to me, EVERY cw ability would have "control" aspects to it, but some would deal more damage/less control others and some would deal more control/less dmg. Overall CWs will be control masters with less damage abilities making it so more than 1/2 in a PVE party is less favorable and that a CW in PVP is ideal for their ability to control targets.
How a proposed "nerf",yes that is what you propose an actual decrease of the sole advantage of a GF in the game will improve his uselfullness??I don't get it.
Delzoun crypt boss has red ground attack for ever(1-1,5 sec) and the 20K hit is impossible to project.We need to have F1 pilots reflexes to use our shield?
Same with the animated non red slash attack of the pitrate boses.CC and Pk.They do not have the red indicator they just happen.15k each.
What about PVP?How a GF will fight a GWF during unstoppable????That is exactly 5 secs.
GF needs dmg boost aggro boost and survivability boost in that order.
That GF vs. GF is endless stalemate encounter is good. That show, that Tank vs. Tank can't really kill each other. If noone make errors or use good strategy, then other results are plain false. The blockmeter is the only pro point for being a Tactician and especially Protector superior to a Conqueror. If you change this, what sense make it to play especially Protectors? Protector don't really buff the team - as the Tac do - or do great damage - as the Con do -. Only the defense is better - only small in comparison -, and this is the only + for the useful block.
Second the balance issue arise with a 'stamina' block meter. Con go for 1s into it - blocking big impacts and go out of it. So 20% lose of its capstone. Really? Only 20% for blocking multiple hits?
40% of my damage on live, after respecing into a full glass cannon Dest build to maximize dps.
Intended?
Going way out on a limb here and going to assume it's not your intention to make GWFs worse than they were from open beta through Mod 1, which is what they are currently on preview since you nerfed anim cancel with mod 2 (but gave us deep gash to make up for it).
Suggestions:
It takes too long to build dest stacks for such a short duration buff. This buff should be hardcoded, 20% more dmg while unstoppable, and not require stacks. Then i'm only losing 50% of my live dmg instead of 60%.
Student of the Sword nerf needs to be erased, there's nothing wrong with it and it's our only group utility, everyone does 15% more dmg on mobs which we've crit 3 times, with our small target caps this wasn't huge overall, like 5% party dmg buff, but it was something that we brought to the group and a way for us to increase our own dmg by up to 15%.
Since the concern is obviously PVP oriented, please double the target caps on our aoe at wills, ie wicked and WMS to 10 instead of 5. it has no impact on PVP while still slightly improving our situation in PVE from where you are putting us with this class destroying nerf.
So yeah, when is this mod aka CW Online coming to live?
istigator tree is now totaly usless it was worse then destroyer before but now is a lot worse
we need higher damage and caps on aoe encounters and our at wills need at least 20% damage boost to be at least solid class
improve swordmaster
This. Basically nothing to add.
Sots is nigh worthless as well now. Especially the lost crit chance on this feat hurts a LOT.
And deep gash... well - don't get me started at this. 250 ticks with ~7k power unbuffed on a dummy (no mitigation). Are you even serious? Might as well just remove any effect completely. The icing on the cake: Arp doesn't work with it - not that it would change much.
A "fix" to DG was needed, but the "buff" of the other feats just doesn't make up for it even remotely. Furthermore, thanks to this my GWF is now much like me IRL - always down for chuggin a beer respectively a health potion in his case.
Thank god I have a decently geared CW*. And the most fun I ever had in this game - with my PVE only GWF - now appears to be over. Yay, finally!
*) But any "fun" with this guy will be over soon as well, I assume? Yay again!
Before my base damage was 3300/3800, now is 2800/3200. no damage, no utility.
feedback:deep gash/destroyer porpose.
sorry, but is just insane if you expect i will use this bleed to accumulate "destroyer porpose ".
feed back: relentless battle fury+battle awareness
as you know, one that says cutting the feet contdown 25% does not decrease by 25%. in other words, my own countdown rendless battle + savage advanced not put my battle fury in for 5/6 sec, but 11.2.
sorry, but nothing in this change works.
ps:destroyer porpose (edit) give a low, low damage bonus now. I await a patch with profound changes to gwf.
"
ibs module 3
ibs+ focused destroyer (this bonus since the beta was higher than promised ... and yet the gwf sucked.)
ibs+destroyer porpose (no, I do not confuse the picture).:
ibs+destroyer porpose+focused destroyer:
ps:my damage is lower than that supposedly says the tooltip. numbers are inflated without any real content. Another time I post feedback from countdowns.
new reaping strike:
huge nerf for a weak atwill.
ps:I made a new test with the executioner style. the enemy could be with so low hp to take damage, the feet becomes redundant.
ps2:My critics of reaping strike currently make 11k. even considering the loss of base damage and bleed , is a VERY high damage decline.
This enchant is the root of every dps related problem.
I just did an actual CN test run with the new gwf changes on preview with 2x support cw + 2x high dps cw and am sad to report a destroyer GWF is completely unable to compete with high dps CW after the rework. The deep gash pretty much doubled our dps before, and the slight buffs (such as the new destroyer capstone and class feature) just don't make up for that. As it stands, if the changes go live as they are the only real high end DPS class will be CW. The student of the sword party benefit will also be gone, so there will be little reason to replace a CW with a GWF.
My question would be: is the CW intended to be the only high end PvE DPS class which nobody should be able to compete against?
Or more precisely the only high end PvE DPS class which nobody should be able to compete against that also has the best control abilities and debuffs. Finally don't forget 'pushes'.....
as for wepon enchants a destroyer and theres only goign to be destroyers even moderatly viable as "tank" specs due to needs a certain amount of damage to be top of agro list there not going to be able to stack crit past about 36% i have a full dex elf with 3000+ crit and its 36% so u devide vorperals damage by about 3 and u find its less consistant damage then say lightning, whats its necisery for is geting those spikes to put yourself at the top of the agro list, which is steadly becoming harder and harder for any "tank" to do
so it may not make endbosses quite as hard as id feared althow lacking student of sword and remebering i was geting out dps'ed 3-4 fold but fully setup CW or destroyer gwf before nurf and 2 fold by lower geared destroyers its going to make it very hard to get a group except amoungst friends and with no team utility atall very little ability to hold agro via threat being based solely on dps+threat modifyers ill be able to tank maybe 1 enemy out of a group.
CW will be tanking the rest(and lets face it someone has to or u wipe), on + side i lost like 7% mitigation 10% deflect 7.5% crit and almost doubled my base damage so i should hit quite a bit beter in pvp and with unstopable coming from damage control and damage received now i should be cc immune quite a bit more, but full sentinel is now totaly unviable for pve,
even my 12k cw's smoulder crit hits for 900+ damage so deep gash is never going to hold agro and with my target caps im never going to hit enuff targets often enuff to not have most of room chasing dps, i may be able to tank 1 or 2 enemys from a group the rest will be being dealt with by cw, im not callign for a nurf on CW though id like to see classes buffed so ppl arnt forced to take 3 or 4 cw and then 1 tag along , yes some ppl that already have all there gear find content to easy, but the 98% that dont often strugle still your time "balancing" would have been beter spent making a 18Kgs+ epic dungeon then the ppl that wont be to badly efected by this would of been happy and the vast majority that are seriously effected by this could of had some hope of geting to the gear scores of the 2%
why we even bother making anything bar cw when even fully geared were still going to be useless to group escapes me but i guess im not only 1 that preferes some variety