What you're describing is a basic D&D principle. Thieves have always hit for extra damage from backstab. They hurt you more because you don't see them coming. So, yes, higher damage when not visible. Not saying it's right for a video game but it is a D&D fundamental for the class.
I don't know much of anything about D&D tbh, so my take on this is purely from a logical PvP gameplay standpoint.
I would actually be happy if TR's got their powers buffed as long as it's done properly. IF.. they fixed this perma-ItC build that everyone uses. It would be a great trade-off for everyone IMO. Tricksters can be diverse again, and their opponents can actually fight them on even keel again. Stealth, albeit a pretty cheap mechanic for PvP CAN work, in moderate amounts. ItC is also a mechanic that does not suit PvP well at all, but this one can also work. It just needs a much longer cooldown.
I'd be happy to fight a fast, agile somewhat stealthed high damage monster with good defenses as long as I could actually fight him. At this point, I can't really do that. To kill one I'd have to change most of my powers setup and be left alone with him for an extended period of time. This is of course signs of a broken build.
I don't know much of anything about D&D tbh, so my take on this is purely from a logical PvP gameplay standpoint.
I would actually be happy if TR's got their powers buffed as long as it's done properly. IF.. they fixed this perma-ItC build that everyone uses. It would be a great trade-off for everyone IMO. Tricksters can be diverse again, and their opponents can actually fight them on even keel again. Stealth, albeit a pretty cheap mechanic for PvP CAN work, in moderate amounts. ItC is also a mechanic that does not suit PvP well at all, but this one can also work. It just needs a much longer cooldown.
I'd be happy to fight a fast, agile somewhat stealthed high damage monster with good defenses as long as I could actually fight him. At this point, I can't really do that. To kill one I'd have to change most of my powers setup and be left alone with him for an extended period of time. This is of course signs of a broken build.
problem is that ITC is the only skill that allows a rogue to actually melee in pve with all the aoe stun spam. even considering smoke bomb, i am still likely to get hit while approaching or b4 the stun takes effect since it's not an instant stun. nerfing ITC might kill melee rogues so I would rather it be left alone unless u mean the stealth bonus for ITC as idc about that.
our pve dps sucks as it is. i rather not be standing around for 10-20 sec waiting on my encounters to get off cooldown.
emblem, shocking execution and threatening rush should be nerf to dirt. even a neanderthal can own pvp with these.
Nope.
Nerfing Threatening Rush because of the GWF negatively affects the GF, who actually needs that at-will for mobility and to generate threat in PvE.
If they want to do anything with Threatening Rush they need to remove it as an Iron Vanguard-specific at-will and make it a core GF at-will so GWFs can't get it.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Nerfing Threatening Rush because of the GWF negatively affects the GF, who actually needs that at-will for mobility and to generate threat in PvE.
If they want to do anything with Threatening Rush they need to remove it as an Iron Vanguard-specific at-will and make it a core GF at-will so GWFs can't get it.
As a GWF player, I think this is actually an interesting idea. Would need a lot of testing though to see whether without it, other classes with ranged abilities can't kite the GWF around basically forever.
Nerfing Threatening Rush because of the GWF negatively affects the GF, who actually needs that at-will for mobility and to generate threat in PvE.
If they want to do anything with Threatening Rush they need to remove it as an Iron Vanguard-specific at-will and make it a core GF at-will so GWFs can't get it.
nerf pl0x. Today I played pvp, and this gwf just threatening rushed me to death, he was cancelling the animation so hard I dont think I made any gap at all when I was trying to escape. nerf pl0x
Short answer -
NO, it's not way out of bounds. It's a daily. It's supposed to be powerful because it takes time to build up. TR action points take much longer to build up than a CW's Ice Knife. I've actually survived an Ice knife in a fight only to be killed by it a second time in the same fight.
IMO,
nerfs that need to happen are those dealing with at-wills and encounters which have no recovery time or short recovery times relative to dailies. Those affect gameplay balance more than dailies. Yes, getting 1 shotted really stinks, but it's not like a player can run around and 1 shot everyone they see using a daily consecutively. What really stinks is watching a GWF running around and proning you continuously so you can't move, can't defend, can't dodge, can't hit, and then die. Or watching a GF or two do the same thing to you. And then continue that attack on the next player, and then the next player and then the next player. THIS makes PvP unbalanced.
I play a TR, CW, and a GWF.
The GWF is the new PvP king because a single good GWF can change the balance of a match from losing to winning. The CW is the undisputed PvE king because of all the dmg it can do. The TR is only as good as the team it's on even for the OP TRs. One OP TR on an "average" team can't win the match for the team. Multiple OP TRs is a different story. A single OP GWF on an average team can win the match for the team. And I've seen a single OP CW also make a huge impact on the outcome of many PvP matches.
It boils down to these two basic fundamental PvP concepts.
If you believe that PvP matches are about out damaging your opponent, then yes, 1 shot kills and other high spike damage powers need to be "balanced" out by the devs so that every class generates the equal amount of dps and cc.
But if you believe PvP matches are about team play using strategy and tactics, then 1 shot kills and other high spike damage powers are balanced out by employing the appropriate counter tactics and strategies.
NO, it's not way out of bounds. It's a daily. It's supposed to be powerful because it takes time to build up. TR action points take much longer to build up than a CW's Ice Knife. I've actually survived an Ice knife in a fight only to be killed by it a second time in the same fight.
It doesn't need a nerf but the developers need to figure out what buffs/debuffs create the conditions where SE has the ability to hit for 200k+ .
nerf pl0x. Today I played pvp, and this gwf just threatening rushed me to death, he was cancelling the animation so hard I dont think I made any gap at all when I was trying to escape. nerf pl0x
No. Take it away from the GWF. You nerf Threatening Rush by giving it a charge or a shorter distance or remove its mark debuff and you completely shaft the GF, which is out of order.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
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unbahMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited March 2014
Nerf SE, it hits too hard.
Nerf PotB, every TR runs with it so it must be good.
Nerf ITC, it makes a TR harder to kill.
Nerf LB, it hits too hard.
Nerf DF, it makes you bleed.
Nerf Dazing Strike, it stuns.
Nerf Smoke Bomb, it has too big aoe.
Nerf Stealth, it makes TR invisible.
And after that delete the class.
I wonder if the QQ will ever end. Nerf one thing about the TR and people immediatly find another thing to cry about. Funny how 20k+ crits once in a while are OP but perma-prones and animation cancelling are completly fine and legit.
What really stinks is watching a GWF running around and proning you continuously so you can't move, can't defend, can't dodge, can't hit, and then die. Or watching a GF or two do the same thing to you. And then continue that attack on the next player, and then the next player and then the next player. THIS makes PvP unbalanced.
Actually, a GF cannot begin to approach the chain-prone damage output of a GWF because it is incredibly difficult for us to balance survivability with power-crit-arpen, unlike the GWF that can effectively balance both aspects.
I have never in my life killed anything with a BC-Frontline-LS-IS sequence if it has full health. After that, due to our poor recovery and lack of mobility, you then have the time to get away or your reinforcements arrive as we hide behind our shield waiting for everything to come off of cool down. And this was all with my non-PVP DPS gear, which also meant I was highly susceptible to taking damage myself.
In PvP gear I have 6800 power, 750 crit, 850 arpen, hardly enough to kill a decent PVP player in one rotation. Even less so with tenacity as my feeble arpen is now even more ineffectual. Simply put, as we all struggle to stack offensive stats alongside survivability we ain't killing you in one rotation if you are full health. I need about 3 rotations 1v1 to kill someone and I rarely get that.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I listen to music with barely any in-game audio at all when I play, every single time. And I can still hear that obvious sound the IK makes when launched. Unless I am CC'd by something I dodge it 100%. Try to dodge SE why don't you? And SE deals a lot more damage than IK. After patch I would say that a good IK crit is around 10k, a really really great one would be around 15k. Usually they are far less than 10k, depending on buffs/debuffs and classes. Is a good SE crit 10k? No, a good SE crit is probably always 20k+ where a really good one would be 30k+ and a bad one would be 10k.
Nerf IK my ***, I've said one thing for way over 6 months now, and I say it almost every time I play, lol. IK needs a buff. I pretty much say it when I get hit by some monster undodgable SE. That is when I get reminded how poor my IK is. Even if IK was undodgable it wouldn't get close to as potent as SE is. And that thing will never even happen, lol.
Regarding GWF, the list of unbalanced features can be made quite long. But the biggest thing is threatening rush since it makes them up in your face at all times and leaves no room for a CW to espace or distance himself long enough to be a threat to him. Ranged prone animation is super fast and makes no sense, why should I be proned by a 0.002 sec flick of the wrist? Make that animation at least the same duration as the Chill Strike animation and it can stay. Threat rush needs to go completly since GF needs it, so a tweak is just a bad idea. As was the idea to give it to an already agile and deadly GWF.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Short answer -
NO, it's not way out of bounds. It's a daily. It's supposed to be powerful because it takes time to build up. TR action points take much longer to build up than a CW's Ice Knife. I've actually survived an Ice knife in a fight only to be killed by it a second time in the same fight.
Tenacity is supposed to remove spike damage. This daily has - by a wide margine - the greatest spike damage I observe in every situation without the possiblity to prevent damage by dodging. Ice Knife is on par with dailies of other classes. FYI I currently play mostly a HR in pvp and have no problems with Ice Knife whatsoever - even on my more squishier CW I can deal with Ice Knife fine, in fact its very easy to avoid being Knifed. And after some combos it doenst make that much damage at all - I am also not the only one telling you that.
IMO,
nerfs that need to happen are those dealing with at-wills and encounters which have no recovery time or short recovery times relative to dailies. Those affect gameplay balance more than dailies. Yes, getting 1 shotted really stinks, but it's not like a player can run around and 1 shot everyone they see using a daily consecutively.
Do you think that is norma What really stinks is watching a GWF running around and proning you continuously so you can't move, can't defend, can't dodge, can't hit, and then die. Or watching a GF or two do the same thing to you. And then continue that attack on the next player, and then the next player and then the next player. THIS makes PvP unbalanced.
That is another topic. And there are enough people (including myself) which are in fact getting one-shotted from almost full HP by ES - which is also not dodgeable (= I WIN BUTTON). I really cant belive someone seriously arguing that this is how it should work - or I dont get the joke here. Even players who play TR in PvP mainly demand a change.
It boils down to these two basic fundamental PvP concepts.
If you believe that PvP matches are about out damaging your opponent, then yes, 1 shot kills and other high spike damage powers need to be "balanced" out by the devs so that every class generates the equal amount of dps and cc.
For me PvP is to outplay an opponent and therefore outdamaging him by outplaying him (if you killed him first, you did in fact outdamage him, nothing wrong with that) but NOT to hit a single button as soon as your daily is ready and win a fight. Everyone with long time experience in PvP would agree with me that this is total BS. This goes for individual fights and group fights.
But if you believe PvP matches are about team play using strategy and tactics, then 1 shot kills and other high spike damage powers are balanced out by employing the appropriate counter tactics and strategies.
Teamplay is one aspect of these domination matches, but for me a balanced individual fight experience is what has most priority, because only if this is balanced then you actually see the differences in teamplay and strategy. And it was very good to remove all spike damage from the game, just one thing is apparently forgotten.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I wonder if the QQ will ever end. Nerf one thing about the TR and people immediatly find another thing to cry about. Funny how 20k+ crits once in a while are OP but perma-prones and animation cancelling are completly fine and legit.
I wonder when posts like this will ever end. This is about a very obvious oversight in that daily. Doesnt matter if there were already nerfs in the past. What counts is only the current situation, dont you agree?
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
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unbahMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 25Arc User
If you look at the context, what it really boils down to is that TRs get all these things that they can do without the target being able to see it come or defend against it, and then the TR gets a bunch of escape options on top of that. If the game gave people better options to detect stealthy TRs or made a nerf to stealth, the other things would probably not seem as overpowering. Sadly, whenever there's been an attempt at nerfing stealth in some way, it's been met with unending streams of TR QQ. Like when they wanted to make stealth deplete from at-will attacks, or when they ended up nerfing the Lantern's cooldown.
And yes, animation cancelling is bad too. Few things quite so annoying as a GWF that it is impossible to generate any distance from.
Dealing with a target while being unseen and then escaping? Correct me if Im wrong, but isn't that what the TR is supposed to do? You want to nerf TR's because they make use of their class mechanics?
Play a TR in pve, and try to get a pug during DD. Good luck with that. CW dominates pve, GWF dominates pvp AND pve but everyone want to nerf TR.
Stealth shouldn't be nerfed. If anything, it needs to be reworked. But reworked with some idea coming with it - not just stealth-depletion-while-attacking. Right now a TR can't even run past mobs in dungeons because they miraculously know he exited stealth a mile away, and run to him. Take away attacking from stealth and all a TR will be able to do is frightening mobs to death by his sudden appearance out of nowhere. This game is not all about PVP ffs, so stop crying for nerfs based on only one aspect of the game and without seeing the big picture.
Short answer -
NO, it's not way out of bounds. It's a daily. It's supposed to be powerful because it takes time to build up. TR action points take much longer to build up than a CW's Ice Knife.
Nope, it ignores Tenacity, the mechanism designed to stop stuff like that. It's broken. Your opinion can be whatever you like, as it is buggy and will be fixed, so you'd better make your peace with it now.
The current POB/SE combo is a bad one to start relying upon in the stead of actual skill, as you'll be sunk when a patch takes your toys away.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This game is not all about PVP ffs, so stop crying for nerfs based on only one aspect of the game and without seeing the big picture.
I know you responded to another post, but this topic is not about nerfing stealth. No one is questioning that TRs need stealth to survive. It is about ES in PvP only.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
If shocking execution can deal 30k damange to a player with 100% HP and 1k tenacity, its bugged/unbalanced/not intended. Call it what you want, it will be fixed.
GWFs, still has high damage imo, since IBS usually crits more then Ice knife. so thats daily vs encounter.
Should not be that way.
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unbahMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 25Arc User
I wonder when posts like this will ever end. This is about a very obvious oversight in that daily. Doesnt matter if there were already nerfs in the past. What counts is only the current situation, dont you agree?
"Current situation" goes on as long as I can remember. Just check history of TR nerfs.
SE is supposed to ignore defense. And since CW's can ignore a part of tenacity with their controll skills, I don't see why a daily power shouldn't ignore it too. A daily power that takes time to fill, not just mash-to-win at will or encounter.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
A daily power that takes time to fill, not just mash-to-win at will or encounter.
True, but even if you can use it, you should only get an advantage - not to end a fight.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
0
Options
unbahMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited March 2014
If I wanted to get an advantage I would use Courage Breaker. I use SE to end a fight. Period. SE is useless in pve since I dish out comparable damage with half of my rotation, regardless of targets HP. Only reason to keep it specced was PVP, and since it has ZERO utility it should do serious damage. Now, take away spike damage and the next thing you can ask yourself is: where the heck all those perma/itc-hybrid TR's came from?
I wonder when posts like this will ever end. This is about a very obvious oversight in that daily. Doesnt matter if there were already nerfs in the past. What counts is only the current situation, dont you agree?
Apparently reading previous posts and watching the videos posted in this very thread showing that under certain conditions SE can hit for over 200k is too much to ask of people like that.
Nerf SE, it hits too hard.
Nerf PotB, every TR runs with it so it must be good.
Nerf ITC, it makes a TR harder to kill.
Nerf LB, it hits too hard.
Nerf DF, it makes you bleed.
Nerf Dazing Strike, it stuns.
Nerf Smoke Bomb, it has too big aoe.
Nerf Stealth, it makes TR invisible.
And after that delete the class.
I wonder if the QQ will ever end. Nerf one thing about the TR and people immediatly find another thing to cry about. Funny how 20k+ crits once in a while are OP but perma-prones and animation cancelling are completly fine and legit.
In games like this classes suffer skill balances on a regular basis , are you trying to say that because TR has suffered nerfs in the past the developers should ignore an obvious problem with how damage is being worked out for SE under certain conditions?
Perma stealth normally do not have high dmg. So you must chose which way with TR you want DMG or Stealth.
Invisible is good strategy for PVP but there is ways to be stop. Get one HR+any other class and go for fast kill on perma stealth. If the HR is very good he can kill TR alone of course but this is other story. Perma stealth is strategy as any other. Yes it is hard sometimes but it is almost the same with GWF - you sometimes need 2 players to kill him - where is the difference ? HR+CW can just wipe any perma stealth...
Disruptive Shot and Fox Shift work very well for this.
Other way is Lantern of Revelation you can change your artifacts for 1 sec ... and you will have 6 sec, this is so much time you must kill for this time any perma stealth TR... So there is a ways to do it just choose one.
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unbahMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 25Arc User
Apparently reading previous posts and watching the videos posted in this very thread showing that under certain conditions SE can hit for over 200k is too much to ask of people like that.
In games like this classes suffer skill balances on a regular basis , are you trying to say that because TR has suffered nerfs in the past the developers should ignore an obvious problem with how damage is being worked out for SE under certain conditions?
Ive seen the vids. Under certain conditions, which include 4vs1 staged "fight", all the buffs and debuffs you can get, high end gear and target being at 20% of health. I wonder how many of these will be met in an ordinary fight in an ordinary pvp match. But sure, nerf the skill for everyone because of a few cases of "under certain conditions".
Comments
I don't know much of anything about D&D tbh, so my take on this is purely from a logical PvP gameplay standpoint.
I would actually be happy if TR's got their powers buffed as long as it's done properly. IF.. they fixed this perma-ItC build that everyone uses. It would be a great trade-off for everyone IMO. Tricksters can be diverse again, and their opponents can actually fight them on even keel again. Stealth, albeit a pretty cheap mechanic for PvP CAN work, in moderate amounts. ItC is also a mechanic that does not suit PvP well at all, but this one can also work. It just needs a much longer cooldown.
I'd be happy to fight a fast, agile somewhat stealthed high damage monster with good defenses as long as I could actually fight him. At this point, I can't really do that. To kill one I'd have to change most of my powers setup and be left alone with him for an extended period of time. This is of course signs of a broken build.
problem is that ITC is the only skill that allows a rogue to actually melee in pve with all the aoe stun spam. even considering smoke bomb, i am still likely to get hit while approaching or b4 the stun takes effect since it's not an instant stun. nerfing ITC might kill melee rogues so I would rather it be left alone unless u mean the stealth bonus for ITC as idc about that.
our pve dps sucks as it is. i rather not be standing around for 10-20 sec waiting on my encounters to get off cooldown.
not broken think they rolled back old nerf to old skill version when was doing more damage by hp of target
so dose ice knife
Don't forget about Eye of the Storm, Shard and Sudden Storm
Nope.
Nerfing Threatening Rush because of the GWF negatively affects the GF, who actually needs that at-will for mobility and to generate threat in PvE.
If they want to do anything with Threatening Rush they need to remove it as an Iron Vanguard-specific at-will and make it a core GF at-will so GWFs can't get it.
As a GWF player, I think this is actually an interesting idea. Would need a lot of testing though to see whether without it, other classes with ranged abilities can't kite the GWF around basically forever.
nerf pl0x. Today I played pvp, and this gwf just threatening rushed me to death, he was cancelling the animation so hard I dont think I made any gap at all when I was trying to escape. nerf pl0x
NO, it's not way out of bounds. It's a daily. It's supposed to be powerful because it takes time to build up. TR action points take much longer to build up than a CW's Ice Knife. I've actually survived an Ice knife in a fight only to be killed by it a second time in the same fight.
IMO,
nerfs that need to happen are those dealing with at-wills and encounters which have no recovery time or short recovery times relative to dailies. Those affect gameplay balance more than dailies. Yes, getting 1 shotted really stinks, but it's not like a player can run around and 1 shot everyone they see using a daily consecutively. What really stinks is watching a GWF running around and proning you continuously so you can't move, can't defend, can't dodge, can't hit, and then die. Or watching a GF or two do the same thing to you. And then continue that attack on the next player, and then the next player and then the next player. THIS makes PvP unbalanced.
I play a TR, CW, and a GWF.
The GWF is the new PvP king because a single good GWF can change the balance of a match from losing to winning. The CW is the undisputed PvE king because of all the dmg it can do. The TR is only as good as the team it's on even for the OP TRs. One OP TR on an "average" team can't win the match for the team. Multiple OP TRs is a different story. A single OP GWF on an average team can win the match for the team. And I've seen a single OP CW also make a huge impact on the outcome of many PvP matches.
It boils down to these two basic fundamental PvP concepts.
If you believe that PvP matches are about out damaging your opponent, then yes, 1 shot kills and other high spike damage powers need to be "balanced" out by the devs so that every class generates the equal amount of dps and cc.
But if you believe PvP matches are about team play using strategy and tactics, then 1 shot kills and other high spike damage powers are balanced out by employing the appropriate counter tactics and strategies.
It doesn't need a nerf but the developers need to figure out what buffs/debuffs create the conditions where SE has the ability to hit for 200k+ .
No. Take it away from the GWF. You nerf Threatening Rush by giving it a charge or a shorter distance or remove its mark debuff and you completely shaft the GF, which is out of order.
Nerf PotB, every TR runs with it so it must be good.
Nerf ITC, it makes a TR harder to kill.
Nerf LB, it hits too hard.
Nerf DF, it makes you bleed.
Nerf Dazing Strike, it stuns.
Nerf Smoke Bomb, it has too big aoe.
Nerf Stealth, it makes TR invisible.
And after that delete the class.
I wonder if the QQ will ever end. Nerf one thing about the TR and people immediatly find another thing to cry about. Funny how 20k+ crits once in a while are OP but perma-prones and animation cancelling are completly fine and legit.
Actually, a GF cannot begin to approach the chain-prone damage output of a GWF because it is incredibly difficult for us to balance survivability with power-crit-arpen, unlike the GWF that can effectively balance both aspects.
I have never in my life killed anything with a BC-Frontline-LS-IS sequence if it has full health. After that, due to our poor recovery and lack of mobility, you then have the time to get away or your reinforcements arrive as we hide behind our shield waiting for everything to come off of cool down. And this was all with my non-PVP DPS gear, which also meant I was highly susceptible to taking damage myself.
In PvP gear I have 6800 power, 750 crit, 850 arpen, hardly enough to kill a decent PVP player in one rotation. Even less so with tenacity as my feeble arpen is now even more ineffectual. Simply put, as we all struggle to stack offensive stats alongside survivability we ain't killing you in one rotation if you are full health. I need about 3 rotations 1v1 to kill someone and I rarely get that.
Nerf IK my ***, I've said one thing for way over 6 months now, and I say it almost every time I play, lol. IK needs a buff. I pretty much say it when I get hit by some monster undodgable SE. That is when I get reminded how poor my IK is. Even if IK was undodgable it wouldn't get close to as potent as SE is. And that thing will never even happen, lol.
Regarding GWF, the list of unbalanced features can be made quite long. But the biggest thing is threatening rush since it makes them up in your face at all times and leaves no room for a CW to espace or distance himself long enough to be a threat to him. Ranged prone animation is super fast and makes no sense, why should I be proned by a 0.002 sec flick of the wrist? Make that animation at least the same duration as the Chill Strike animation and it can stay. Threat rush needs to go completly since GF needs it, so a tweak is just a bad idea. As was the idea to give it to an already agile and deadly GWF.
For me PvP is to outplay an opponent and therefore outdamaging him by outplaying him (if you killed him first, you did in fact outdamage him, nothing wrong with that) but NOT to hit a single button as soon as your daily is ready and win a fight. Everyone with long time experience in PvP would agree with me that this is total BS. This goes for individual fights and group fights. Teamplay is one aspect of these domination matches, but for me a balanced individual fight experience is what has most priority, because only if this is balanced then you actually see the differences in teamplay and strategy. And it was very good to remove all spike damage from the game, just one thing is apparently forgotten.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Dealing with a target while being unseen and then escaping? Correct me if Im wrong, but isn't that what the TR is supposed to do? You want to nerf TR's because they make use of their class mechanics?
Play a TR in pve, and try to get a pug during DD. Good luck with that. CW dominates pve, GWF dominates pvp AND pve but everyone want to nerf TR.
Stealth shouldn't be nerfed. If anything, it needs to be reworked. But reworked with some idea coming with it - not just stealth-depletion-while-attacking. Right now a TR can't even run past mobs in dungeons because they miraculously know he exited stealth a mile away, and run to him. Take away attacking from stealth and all a TR will be able to do is frightening mobs to death by his sudden appearance out of nowhere. This game is not all about PVP ffs, so stop crying for nerfs based on only one aspect of the game and without seeing the big picture.
Nope, it ignores Tenacity, the mechanism designed to stop stuff like that. It's broken. Your opinion can be whatever you like, as it is buggy and will be fixed, so you'd better make your peace with it now.
The current POB/SE combo is a bad one to start relying upon in the stead of actual skill, as you'll be sunk when a patch takes your toys away.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
GWFs, still has high damage imo, since IBS usually crits more then Ice knife. so thats daily vs encounter.
Should not be that way.
"Current situation" goes on as long as I can remember. Just check history of TR nerfs.
SE is supposed to ignore defense. And since CW's can ignore a part of tenacity with their controll skills, I don't see why a daily power shouldn't ignore it too. A daily power that takes time to fill, not just mash-to-win at will or encounter.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Apparently reading previous posts and watching the videos posted in this very thread showing that under certain conditions SE can hit for over 200k is too much to ask of people like that.
In games like this classes suffer skill balances on a regular basis , are you trying to say that because TR has suffered nerfs in the past the developers should ignore an obvious problem with how damage is being worked out for SE under certain conditions?
Invisible is good strategy for PVP but there is ways to be stop. Get one HR+any other class and go for fast kill on perma stealth. If the HR is very good he can kill TR alone of course but this is other story. Perma stealth is strategy as any other. Yes it is hard sometimes but it is almost the same with GWF - you sometimes need 2 players to kill him - where is the difference ? HR+CW can just wipe any perma stealth...
Disruptive Shot and Fox Shift work very well for this.
Other way is Lantern of Revelation you can change your artifacts for 1 sec ... and you will have 6 sec, this is so much time you must kill for this time any perma stealth TR... So there is a ways to do it just choose one.
Ive seen the vids. Under certain conditions, which include 4vs1 staged "fight", all the buffs and debuffs you can get, high end gear and target being at 20% of health. I wonder how many of these will be met in an ordinary fight in an ordinary pvp match. But sure, nerf the skill for everyone because of a few cases of "under certain conditions".