But Shocking Execution really needs a rework. It has a decent range while can not be dodged/immune in any way. At this patch I am hitting constant 12k on a 40-50% target when non-crit, it is easy to figure that with the regen nerf, it is effortless to get someone around 50%, basically as a TR what you do is to get someone around 50%, use your SE. Then you already won no matter you crit or not.
few TRs that would want to play something else, usually based on less stealth and more burst, but yeah. Not that possible.
Makes me wonder will it satisfy the nerf callers that Shocking Execution is dodged/avoided more easily? I say this from a 15.7K, 10 boon, close to BiS gear, perspective, and my Shocking Execution is damned pathetic. It occurred to me I'm not running the FotM kind, but I don't want to change my gameplay to cheesemode.
Could you please think of a nerf that will solve your problem but will not make my already low 5-15k SE lower yet?
Makes me wonder will it satisfy the nerf callers that Shocking Execution is dodged/avoided more easily? I say this from a 15.7K, 10 boon, close to BiS gear, perspective, and my Shocking Execution is damned pathetic. It occurred to me I'm not running the FotM kind, but I don't want to change my gameplay to cheesemode.
Could you please think of a nerf that will solve your problem but will not make my already low 5-15k SE lower yet?
Not sure if any nerfs are needed. The skill seems to be broken in certain circumstances, dunno which. So all that is needed at this point is more testing and then a fix... maybe.
willsommersMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 103
edited March 2014
and then I find myself not being able to get in a party for PvE unless with the friends which is just...wrong?
Maybe it's because of PVP QQ and shocking execution doesn't do HAMSTER,HAMSTER damage on bosses anymore. Lashing blade now does more damage funny as it is.
Or because of PVP QQ lurkers doesn't do 60% more damage
Or because of PVP QQ Cloud of Steel was nerfed
And on and on.
crit me for 20-35K with shocking when im 40-70% HP.
L2P issue. GF can block shocking execution or prone the TR out of it. Easy. Oh you spent your guard blocking little throwing daggers and junk? Well see step one L2P. I once got stunlocked to death as a TR by a GF (well maybe it was 3 of em, but same thing). True story. Take away pronez. Too strong.
My SE is doing significantly less damage than it did before the patch.
As a TR with a p vorp and a largely damage-based build, I kind of expect to do more than 9k's on low HP targets.
Then here come the bilethorn TRs doing their one-shot SE's on 100% HP targets.
The irony.
Also forcing everybody on these recovery/PoB/SE builds is just pretty bad. I know quite a few TRs that would want to play something else, usually based on less stealth and more burst, but yeah. Not that possible.
It's a shame when bad overall class design leads to these chains of nerfs that kill classes and make people reroll as something else. Devs should pay more attention and communicate more with the PvP community if they are to balance classes properly.
It's absolute HAMSTER. No one wants to be forced to play a certain playstyle (that they may find to be boring af, btw) just because there have been continuous nerfs on their class.
At this point, TR has been nerfed into oblivion. No one wants TRs in PvE, and no one wants TRs in PvP unless they run that one specific build.
I've played my TR since beta, and I'm very disappointed to have to say that I will most likely be rolling a different class for a new main character.
Quite frankly I'd rather get one/two-shotted by a TR that I can hit than one of those pain in the rear ends that are perma untouchable (Stealth + ITC + Dazing, etc.) and just wear you down with their G/P-Bilethorn.
Plz nerf stealth, but boost their single target DPS again. If SE is indeed bugged fix that as well but buff the rest of their single target DPS again in exchange for toning it down on their invincibility.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Plz nerf stealth, but boost their single target DPS again. If SE is indeed bugged fix that as well but buff the rest of their single target DPS again in exchange for toning it down on their invincibility.
Their single target dps is high enough (in pvp). And to my OP: Yes I had ~80% hp, definitively more than 50%.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
that's funny since i am consistently hit by ice knife for 15k-25k post tenacity. i still remember the 33k 1-shots pre-tenacity.......
Without gear? I am never shooted by a CW with these numbers and I am also never pulling out these numbers on my CW in PvP. Can we stay on-topic please?
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
It doesn't really matter what your GS is since SE ignores defenses, so whatever you stack doesn't matter. That's what makes SE unique. Otherwise Lashing blade would hit harder where it's more important.
Anyway, I'm a TR, and I'm sure that SE is still affected by health, and I'm pretty sure that it's been reduced by tenacity. On full health for me (11k GS) hits for ~6k and crits for ~11k, and at half health, ~10k and ~18k respectively. Before tenacity, I was probably averaging 22k-24k crits, while now I'm averaging 16k-18k crits. I've always aimed to hit them at as close to half health as possible, and my GS is higher now. Before tenacity, my max was 31k, and after, 24k.
Due to the differences in how much SE damages, just giving a simple number isn't enough. SE requires context because using SE on someone with 1 HP left is very very different than using it on someone at full health. Most people here talking about one shots are probably basing their numbers after the TR goes through a full stealth rotation, so they are probably getting those 20k+ hits at half health, not full. Just because SE does more than your entire health when you're at 50% health doesn't mean it can one shot you.
Anyway, today, I was hit for an 18k ice spike (yes he used ray of enfeeblement on me), but with 18.5% tenacity reduction, that doesn't make SE look as overpowered as you guys are pointing out. You guys are just noticing it more because people are looking for a new source of damage after the IS nerf, so people are experimenting replacing a class ability with tactics.
By the way, whoever made that video, can you list the exact situation it was done in? What are you stacking to force SE to hit that hard?
Oh yeah forgot to mention the context I was almost full life each time, missing about 5% of my 41K HP, I was effectively 1 shotted, the first time I was like what the f ?!! Oo
Without gear? I am never shooted by a CW with these numbers and I am also never pulling out these numbers on my CW in PvP. Can we stay on-topic please?
30% resist and another 15-20% from tenancity. i wish ice knife hit my cleric for 7k, but outside of a deflect it's impossible. in fact, even my rogue deflects it to 4k which means the actual hit is 16k and i have been hit for stronger deflected ice knives post tenacity.
the good or overgeared wizards are the ones that hit 20k+ still
and yes, it is on-topic since everyone is comparing it to ice knife
Oh yeah forgot to mention the context I was almost full life each time, missing about 5% of my 41K HP, I was effectively 1 shotted, the first time I was like what the f ?!! Oo
that's mostly likely a bug that existed long b4 tenacity. it happened frequently b4 the pvp patch for some weird reason.
This daily apparently bypasses tenacity, because else I can not explain why I got hit by almost 19k spike damage with aproximately 950 tenacity (full grim gear and weapons), while this daily has a lower base damage as dailies from other classes.
Edit: I also never managed to dodge it as well.
Edit2: I understand that it bypasses defenses, but IMO it shouldnt bypass tenacity. The entire concept was to get rid of the huge spike damages in PvP.
Cheers.
At moment I have near ~3400 ArP after I rise it from ~2300 my Aimed Shot go from 8k to 12k on crit on ppl with tenacity when deflect do not success of course.
So I think that if you stack more there is not so big problem to bypass tenacity. But again this stats work for at-wills in most ways.
0
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
that's mostly likely a bug that existed long b4 tenacity. it happened frequently b4 the pvp patch for some weird reason.
That 'bug' which happens 'frequently' is the main reason why so many people demand a change. On a sidenote I personally would find 25% or 33% a more reasonable threshold for a finisher than 50%.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
It is off-topic. If you think something is wrong with this daily, please make a new topic. I am happy to discuss it with you there.
That 'bug' which happens 'frequently' is the main reason why so many people demand a change. On a sidenote I personally would find 25% or 33% a more reasonable threshold for a finisher than 50%.
meh, not gonna argue considering your 1st reply anyways
and 25-33% won't work well since some of our targets die b4 the execute if done on people with that little hp
0
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
meh, not gonna argue considering your 1st reply anyways
I really cant belive someone who seriously question that ice knife makes regular op damage in PvP, that is completely wrong. If you have zero gear or are debuffed to hell without taking any much damage before (since tenacity reduces the number of damage you take in a given time), then you might get close to these numbers. In all other situations that argument is IMO totally wrong and a lengthy discussion only distracts from the main topic.
and 25-33% won't work well since some of our targets die b4 the execute if done on people with that little hp
Again you are wrong: tenacity reduces the amount of damage you take in a given time significantly. The result is that targets can stay alive longer during - and shortly after - damage combos. If your target has around 25% left after a large damage combo this means that in general you still need a couple of abilities to finish if you keep constantly damaging.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I don't know how much hp you lost before you got hit by SE, but 19k is pretty low so I'm not so sure it ignores tenacity.
as for your other points:
1. You can dodge it if you're far away from the TR. If you're closeby: don't bother. that's why it's an excecution. Slaughter. Massacre. Also known as death.
2. 19k SE isn't a huge spike. Trust me, Ive done more, and received even more than that. I think it's affected, but by tenacity only.
some quick math: 19k dmg with say 15% tenacity means that SE was meant to do about 2800 more dmg. 21k SE was quite normal before tenacity. So I think it's working as intended. I can't look at your gear and that of the opposing TR, but it sounds like it's working fine.
19k isn't a huge spike? What?! Since when is 19k not a huge HAMSTER spike? Average HP in pvp is probably around 24-25k.
It might work as intended, but the way it was intended to work is stupid. Fine for PvE, but to have an undodgable 1 hit kill power in PvP?
Do tell what other games gives a class immunity every 15 sec and stealth for when they don't have this immunity, and that even has a 1 hit kill mechanic that cannot be dodged. Sure you can get out of range sometimes, but then he will still have his AP full to try again.
About as stupid as having a lashing blade to crit 100% if you are in stealth. Yes, reward someone for not being visible with a really high dmg move!
This is just scratching the surface of the lack of balance in NW. Don't get me started on GWF's, then I'll be here all day. And it's no secrets I would spill out and the devs does not care so what would be the point. Either join a "top pvp guild" with a perma/gwf to troll with equally cowardly people or get mauled in pugs, that is our options.
I really cant belive someone who seriously question that ice knife makes regular op damage in PvP, that is completely wrong. If you have zero gear or are debuffed to hell without taking any much damage before (since tenacity reduces the number of damage you take in a given time), then you might get close to these numbers. In all other situations that argument is IMO totally wrong and a lengthy discussion only distracts from the main topic.
Again you are wrong: tenacity reduces the amount of damage you take in a given time significantly. The result is that targets can stay alive longer during - and shortly after - damage combos. If your target has around 25% left after a large damage combo this means that in general you still need a couple of abilities to finish if you keep constantly damaging.
well, u tell me. freeze and maybe that 5 ice bolt spell being the only abilities hitting me 1st and then an ice knife while still frozen. by the way, the 2 wizards that did that to me hit 22-25k ice knives. idk wizard abilities so u have to explain that.
by the way, i like how u keep saying i have 0 gear as your defense to that daily hitting hard. i mean really? as a cleric, i can hit over 10k with hammer of fate on a wizard and only have 1.2k armor pen and divine prophecy of doom and that's pretty much base damage for that daily.
and tenacity doesn't really make u live that much longer. 25% hp is maybe 6k or so unless u are a gwf/guardian or stack radiants. i can hit that with a non-stealthed lashing. in fact, my stealthed lashing will hit 11k at max or so and i am not even a dps rogue.
Yes, reward someone for not being visible with a really high dmg move!
What you're describing is a basic D&D principle. Thieves have always hit for extra damage from backstab. They hurt you more because you don't see them coming. So, yes, higher damage when not visible. Not saying it's right for a video game but it is a D&D fundamental for the class.
0
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
well, u tell me. freeze and maybe that 5 ice bolt spell being the only abilities hitting me 1st and then an ice knife while still frozen. by the way, the 2 wizards that did that to me hit 22-25k ice knives. idk wizard abilities so u have to explain that.
I never seen these numbers in any of my toons in PvP. Especially if you get damaged before by other abilities and knifed after stun/damage combos, the damage of Ice Knife is reduced significantly due to tenacity. I'd say post a screenshot of your gear and the damage you take with that gear, else I dont belive it (and please do that in another thread). And outside of a stun you always have the ability to dodge and avoid all damage (unless you play gwf/gf, but then there are other ways). I do not want to discuss Ice Knife anymore in this thread.
and tenacity doesn't really make u live that much longer. 25% hp is maybe 6k or so unless u are a gwf/guardian or stack radiants. i can hit that with a non-stealthed lashing. in fact, my stealthed lashing will hit 11k at max or so and i am not even a dps rogue.
Belive me, tenacity does make you live longer. I know it from my own experience. This all sounds like you are just not geared enough (just get full grim gear, you can get that in a couple of days).
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I never seen these numbers in any of my toons in PvP. Especially if you get damaged before by other abilities and knifed after stun/damage combos, the damage of Ice Knife is reduced significantly due to tenacity. I'd say post a screenshot of your gear and the damage you take with that gear, else I dont belive it (and please do that in another thread). And outside of a stun you always have the ability to dodge and avoid all damage (unless you play gwf/gf, but then there are other ways). I do not want to discuss Ice Knife anymore in this thread.
Belive me, tenacity does make you live longer. I know it from my own experience. This all sounds like you are just not geared enough (just get full grim gear, you can get that in a couple of days).
15-25k ice knives r mostly on my cleric as i normally just deflect it on my rogue. and wizards have this freeze cc that prevents dodging unless u have an immunity so it's pretty much the equivalent of seeing a rogue jump up into the air for their daily.
*tells u in earlier post mentioning 15-20% from tenacity*
"u should get the grim set"
what u should really do is find an actual wizard that is more geared than yourself rather then me waiting to find a wizard that will hit me with it. that way u can get a look at their gear rather than mine.
0
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
and wizards have this freeze cc that prevents dodging unless u have an immunity so it's pretty much the equivalent of seeing a rogue jump up into the air for their daily.
I totally agree with you in this point: Icy Rays should also be dodgeable. Currently it gives a free stun/root which can not be avoided. But we are really getting off-topic.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
What you're describing is a basic D&D principle. Thieves have always hit for extra damage from backstab. They hurt you more because you don't see them coming. So, yes, higher damage when not visible. Not saying it's right for a video game but it is a D&D fundamental for the class.
Except that in D&D the stealth mechanic can be countered by passive perception and active perception (which are also basic D&D principles btw), whereas in this game there is no roll done to determine if you see the character in stealth or not, the ingame mechanic isn't stealth, it's invisible .
Comments
But Shocking Execution really needs a rework. It has a decent range while can not be dodged/immune in any way. At this patch I am hitting constant 12k on a 40-50% target when non-crit, it is easy to figure that with the regen nerf, it is effortless to get someone around 50%, basically as a TR what you do is to get someone around 50%, use your SE. Then you already won no matter you crit or not.
Makes me wonder will it satisfy the nerf callers that Shocking Execution is dodged/avoided more easily? I say this from a 15.7K, 10 boon, close to BiS gear, perspective, and my Shocking Execution is damned pathetic. It occurred to me I'm not running the FotM kind, but I don't want to change my gameplay to cheesemode.
Could you please think of a nerf that will solve your problem but will not make my already low 5-15k SE lower yet?
Not sure if any nerfs are needed. The skill seems to be broken in certain circumstances, dunno which. So all that is needed at this point is more testing and then a fix... maybe.
:rolleyes:
Maybe it's because of PVP QQ and shocking execution doesn't do HAMSTER,HAMSTER damage on bosses anymore. Lashing blade now does more damage funny as it is.
Or because of PVP QQ lurkers doesn't do 60% more damage
Or because of PVP QQ Cloud of Steel was nerfed
And on and on.
L2P issue. GF can block shocking execution or prone the TR out of it. Easy. Oh you spent your guard blocking little throwing daggers and junk? Well see step one L2P. I once got stunlocked to death as a TR by a GF (well maybe it was 3 of em, but same thing). True story. Take away pronez. Too strong.
As a TR with a p vorp and a largely damage-based build, I kind of expect to do more than 9k's on low HP targets.
Then here come the bilethorn TRs doing their one-shot SE's on 100% HP targets.
The irony.
It's absolute HAMSTER. No one wants to be forced to play a certain playstyle (that they may find to be boring af, btw) just because there have been continuous nerfs on their class.
At this point, TR has been nerfed into oblivion. No one wants TRs in PvE, and no one wants TRs in PvP unless they run that one specific build.
I've played my TR since beta, and I'm very disappointed to have to say that I will most likely be rolling a different class for a new main character.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
Why stop there? They may as well just get rid of the TRs class altogether....then GWFs....and CWs....and HRs....and GFs....
clerics have already been evicted?
Plz nerf stealth, but boost their single target DPS again. If SE is indeed bugged fix that as well but buff the rest of their single target DPS again in exchange for toning it down on their invincibility.
Their single target dps is high enough (in pvp). And to my OP: Yes I had ~80% hp, definitively more than 50%.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
SE highest dmg 30k
something wrong with the skill
TR class is so HAMSTER they can be stealthed while slowly drain your HP with poison enchant..now that regen nerfed its even stronger
SENT IV GWF - PVP
that's funny since i am consistently hit by ice knife for 15k-25k post tenacity. i still remember the 33k 1-shots pre-tenacity.......
Without gear? I am never shooted by a CW with these numbers and I am also never pulling out these numbers on my CW in PvP. Can we stay on-topic please?
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Oh yeah forgot to mention the context I was almost full life each time, missing about 5% of my 41K HP, I was effectively 1 shotted, the first time I was like what the f ?!! Oo
30% resist and another 15-20% from tenancity. i wish ice knife hit my cleric for 7k, but outside of a deflect it's impossible. in fact, even my rogue deflects it to 4k which means the actual hit is 16k and i have been hit for stronger deflected ice knives post tenacity.
the good or overgeared wizards are the ones that hit 20k+ still
and yes, it is on-topic since everyone is comparing it to ice knife
that's mostly likely a bug that existed long b4 tenacity. it happened frequently b4 the pvp patch for some weird reason.
At moment I have near ~3400 ArP after I rise it from ~2300 my Aimed Shot go from 8k to 12k on crit on ppl with tenacity when deflect do not success of course.
So I think that if you stack more there is not so big problem to bypass tenacity. But again this stats work for at-wills in most ways.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
meh, not gonna argue considering your 1st reply anyways
and 25-33% won't work well since some of our targets die b4 the execute if done on people with that little hp
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
19k isn't a huge spike? What?! Since when is 19k not a huge HAMSTER spike? Average HP in pvp is probably around 24-25k.
It might work as intended, but the way it was intended to work is stupid. Fine for PvE, but to have an undodgable 1 hit kill power in PvP?
Do tell what other games gives a class immunity every 15 sec and stealth for when they don't have this immunity, and that even has a 1 hit kill mechanic that cannot be dodged. Sure you can get out of range sometimes, but then he will still have his AP full to try again.
About as stupid as having a lashing blade to crit 100% if you are in stealth. Yes, reward someone for not being visible with a really high dmg move!
This is just scratching the surface of the lack of balance in NW. Don't get me started on GWF's, then I'll be here all day. And it's no secrets I would spill out and the devs does not care so what would be the point. Either join a "top pvp guild" with a perma/gwf to troll with equally cowardly people or get mauled in pugs, that is our options.
well, u tell me. freeze and maybe that 5 ice bolt spell being the only abilities hitting me 1st and then an ice knife while still frozen. by the way, the 2 wizards that did that to me hit 22-25k ice knives. idk wizard abilities so u have to explain that.
by the way, i like how u keep saying i have 0 gear as your defense to that daily hitting hard. i mean really? as a cleric, i can hit over 10k with hammer of fate on a wizard and only have 1.2k armor pen and divine prophecy of doom and that's pretty much base damage for that daily.
and tenacity doesn't really make u live that much longer. 25% hp is maybe 6k or so unless u are a gwf/guardian or stack radiants. i can hit that with a non-stealthed lashing. in fact, my stealthed lashing will hit 11k at max or so and i am not even a dps rogue.
So broken, fix/nerf/fix/NERF pl0x
What you're describing is a basic D&D principle. Thieves have always hit for extra damage from backstab. They hurt you more because you don't see them coming. So, yes, higher damage when not visible. Not saying it's right for a video game but it is a D&D fundamental for the class.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
15-25k ice knives r mostly on my cleric as i normally just deflect it on my rogue. and wizards have this freeze cc that prevents dodging unless u have an immunity so it's pretty much the equivalent of seeing a rogue jump up into the air for their daily.
*tells u in earlier post mentioning 15-20% from tenacity*
"u should get the grim set"
what u should really do is find an actual wizard that is more geared than yourself rather then me waiting to find a wizard that will hit me with it. that way u can get a look at their gear rather than mine.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Except that in D&D the stealth mechanic can be countered by passive perception and active perception (which are also basic D&D principles btw), whereas in this game there is no roll done to determine if you see the character in stealth or not, the ingame mechanic isn't stealth, it's invisible .