Trying to not be rude here, but what have u been doing the whole time in this game? There are so many ways to make ad in this game. CN, GG, AH, leadership
Here is a Beta pvp player since very early of may.
he just stated why he doesnt make that much AD himself, he just doesnt notice it.
If youre gonna pvp ONLY without buying zen, youre pretty much not gonna be a rich guy. so much opportunities and time wasted specially for someone who started in beta, its too late now since the DD farming opportunities have been stumped, DD chest loots became BoP, CN prices going down the drain.
he just stated why he doesnt make that much AD himself, he just doesnt notice it.
If youre gonna pvp ONLY without buying zen, youre pretty much not gonna be a rich guy. so much opportunities and time wasted specially for someone who started in beta, its too late now since the DD farming opportunities have been stumped, DD chest loots became BoP, CN prices going down the drain.
You got it. I am a serious pvp only cleric which stacked up a lot daily dungeon quests and didn't clear them. I only cleared 3 T1 except Mad Dragon, and rather do pvp than gg pvp. Btw someone using cleric since beta should know not to do dungeon unless you are VERY tanky as the threat mechanics is broken, at that moment i stop pve and jumped into pvp till now (casted an astral seal and all mobs include boss swarm to me).
Even i start to realise pve farmers are very very rich than me and got T2 MH set and T2.5 CN weapons, it was too late to do dungeons as the bug and exploit are removed and you are harder to clear the dungeon without appropriate gear and stats, but without clearing it you cant get good gear!! So i pick the easier path, farmed 3 pieces of T1 HP set and buy the helm from AH as i cant clear the dungeon with pug, wiped tons of time at last dragon. This is why i am poor, but i did clear all pvp dailies every day till now as all of my characters do not clear any pve task and are leveled purely by pvp after they reach level 10. Currently atm at least i did something all beta players / caturday survivor does, all sharandar and dread boons unlocked, MC VT unlocked, Mailsmithing maxed, Leadership & Artificing at 18. Thats all.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You got it. I am a serious pvp only cleric which stacked up a lot daily dungeon quests and didn't clear them. I only cleared 3 T1 except Mad Dragon, and rather do pvp than gg pvp. Btw someone using cleric since beta should know not to do dungeon unless you are VERY tanky as the threat mechanics is broken, at that moment i stop pve and jumped into pvp till now (casted an astral seal and all mobs include boss swarm to me).
Even i start to realise pve farmers are very very rich than me and got T2 MH set and T2.5 CN weapons, it was too late to do dungeons as the bug and exploit are removed and you are harder to clear the dungeon without appropriate gear and stats, but without clearing it you cant get good gear!! So i pick the easier path, farmed 3 pieces of T1 HP set and buy the helm from AH as i cant clear the dungeon with pug, wiped tons of time at last dragon. This is why i am poor, but i did clear all pvp dailies every day till now as all of my characters do not clear any pve task and are leveled purely by pvp after they reach level 10. Currently atm at least i did something all beta players / caturday survivor does, all sharandar and dread boons unlocked, MC VT unlocked, Mailsmithing maxed, Leadership & Artificing at 18. Thats all.
Sadly we all went through the pains of running content while undergeared (at least the F2P ones). I farmed my High Vizier set from random queue pugging, if you believe it, you cannot imagine how many failed runs that was. Started CN only when I had full T2 and R5s already, and humbly asked for advice on what should I do. Tried to learn from people and improve from complete newbie to at least half-decent player. There were many moments of pain and inner rage along the way, such as making my team wait for me for full 15 minutes before Xivros while I died again and again trying to learn the jump. Even like this, some liked me, and invited me again, probably only when they didn't had better CWs online first... but time passed, and things changed for the better.
So yeah. It's a lot of work and a lot of annoyance. It is expected to be like this in MMOs, although this one is particularly heavy in farming. Up to you if you wanna go through it, or remain undergeared.
The way I see it, if you want to have better gear and perform at high level PvP and don't wish to p2w, then you'll need to do a bunch of PvE content and/or have made some really good investments along the way so less farming was needed.
Before DD chests became BoP, it was very easy to look for a party as a DC for T2s and CN, you either sell those items or keep them and sell when the prices went up. I have met some so many people that we would do a few CNs, and then some PvP. So if you're not willing to work for those AD, then it's your own choice you're running with R5s and not R9s or R10s.
I'm sorry to say but you won't find a spot in the highest level PvP premade matches running with R5s and lessers, especially for a DC which they should be as tanky as possible.
Also DCs haven't been getting the threat in dungeons for a long time, CWs have to worry about that.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
A skilled tanky pvp dc can troll a point and survive for a long time vs just about most toons 1v1. This keeps the point contested.
You basically changed the word "good" with "skilled", yeah my bad ..i thought you can't get any more vague but i forgot about the word "skill" which in terms gaming is so overused is borderline meaningless now
Let's take the scenario of a GWF with threatening rush meaning is in melee range 100%:
starts with frontline surge, big crits from this CC ability, takedown, indomitable strength and finishes with indomitable battle strike
I think GWFs with this set of abilities are pretty mainstream and this means several seconds you're on the ground UNABLE TO CAST ANY ABILITY and by the time this sequence ends you're dead.
Where does the skill part come in? where is the skill in a game where you can take a player from 100% to dead while he is UNABLE TO RETALIATE.
I gave you an example and all you did is throw out empty words like "skilled" and "good" like they would allow you to bypass game mechanics and use "dodge and heal and use chains" while proned.
Also if being good at the game is such a simple concept for you how come you're unable to explain it?
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You basically changed the word "good" with "skilled", yeah my bad ..i thought you can't get any more vague but i forgot about the word "skill" which in terms gaming is so overused is borderline meaningless now
Let's take the scenario of a GWF with threatening rush meaning is in melee range 100%:
starts with frontline surge, big crits from this CC ability, takedown, indomitable strength and finishes with indomitable battle strike
I think GWFs with this set of abilities are pretty mainstream and this means several seconds you're on the ground UNABLE TO CAST ANY ABILITY and by the time this sequence ends you're dead.
Where does the skill part come in? where is the skill in a game where you can take a player from 100% to dead while he is UNABLE TO RETALIATE.
The skill part is in gearing&speccing appropriately for such situation; using dodges at the right time (you will still eat FLS and then full combo many times though); sunbursting the GWF off points or to interrupt casts; using Exaltation properly and so on.
Basically with correct PvP build and good gear, a DC will survive through a GWF combo and start to regen and heal back. Don't expect to stall the rank 10 BiS sent however on a r7 PvE DC.
this is a freakin stupid thread. I mean holy HAMSTER stupid.
sent gwf, if they are pushing like mine, has 52% def, 48% deflect (or little more) with around 6k power and 2500 crit.
a cw can prone 3 times and do high damage, before i can unstoppable because of prone. they can dodge and yes.. walk backwards while i sprint to get into range.. and then after 6 seconds, unless they were stupid casting magic missile or something, they can still dodge my encounters (that are most likely still in cooldown anyway), and perm prone me because while spamming their encounters, their fast action pont gain means they can also ice knife.
35k hitpoints still goes extremely, extremely fast at this point. I still have to use potions / artifacts to delay and hope that cw makes a mistake and i can pounce, and hopefully kill fast enough.
most cw's are NOT good though, didnt build their character to take advantage of all their control / etc, and just die. that is largely their fault.
hr's can do a good job of nearly completely disabling a gwf from ranged, however, most hr's in that build do not do enough damage even with vorpals to finish the job because of a gwf' ability to survive. but these are also bad hr's. A good hr, has defense also, and is balanced, can ontrol from ranged, change to melee, control the gwf with their melee, and swap back to ranged and full heal while ontrolling more (without rec.. with rec well ****.. can you say my hr has 40% def, and 42% deflect, 30k hitpoints, and 50% damage resistance from buffs as a healer hr lol.. most stealth lashing blades dont even take me out of the temp hitponts i put up).
These are the hr's that are deadly in pvp.. not the others.. and the ones that can completely shut down a gwf.
gf's can reach around 20k power.. prone / mark prone / cripple etc a gwf, and easily survive the gwf's damage after until their unstoppable washes off.. and then wash rince repeat with their own encounters.
much of the time they can kill gwf's outright depending on build, with just their three encounters.
(or any other class, but they lack the survivability of a defensive / annoying gf)
as my build with gwf.. i can reach up to 90% damage reduction with all things stacked (i use odd things to do it with, as well as titans etc) in temporary cases. At my greatest damage resistance, a balls to the walls offensive tr can nearly oneshot me with a crit from 1 daily.
they also have much faster natural recharge speed thana gwf. isnt that nice?
They dont even need defensive to survive well because of stealth and stacking stealth from encounters, that keep them stealthed. even nicer? lets make it nicer and give them a dot at will that on mine hits for 8-9k non crit, and i have another at will that hits up to 8 times with rising damage. i will say lol. isnt THAT nice?
anyway.
most people in pvp are bad players. i would say around 70%. The reason for this is.. much of the time is spent with people that dont like pvp, dont want to pvp, cant handle pvp (or even pve) well, and just want that 4k ad from the daily. They go in.. and rush the back node like oh my god enemies are out there! i will back myself into the corner, screw over my own team, and go here.
they do not even try to dodge in alot of cases.. wont even try to get to a node much less stand on it.. only run around away from as many enemies as they can hoping they wont die.
however on this team is usually one or two good people that try their asses off.. but because of these bad people, they are often fighting a 2v5 against them, with the 2 people having.. well.. not even3 other people because of their lack of even trying.
These people are also usually the ones to leave the party, because of the bad people being just that bad. not beccause of the enemy team, but because of their own team.
The greatest reason people leave teams is not because of enemy team being strong, it is because their own teammates are so bad they help the enemy team.
as a truth, i look at these posts, and i see them as a joke, because the person behind it is likely little more thana bad player, complaining, and really, they are just a bad player, and that is all.
galkabear said :"sent gwf, if they are pushing like mine, has 52% def, 48% deflect (or little more) with around 6k power and 2500 crit. "
+ "as my build with gwf.. i can reach up to 90% damage reduction with all things stacked"
You do realize that 90% DR means simply you are immune to PROLONGED period of time to any damage?And even then you can sprint and return in full health cause the ridicoulous regenaration you have?
Do you know that the tankiest builds of GFs rarely reach 52% DR?In any case?And you have an OFFENSIVE class DOUBLE its DR?And you consider that normal?
Unstoppable with right management can happen way too often,that is unacceptable.
"A good hr, has defense also, and is balanced, can ontrol from ranged, change to melee, control the gwf with their melee"
Control GWF with their melee????? What do you mean?How a class with 28-32DR and half your melee dmg can control you?
"gf's can reach around 20k power"
The only GFs that can reach this number,which i highly doubt ,highly are the Conq build.Their power is plasmatic not real.It is the effect of unbroken ,full Guard meter.That means If a guy raises his shield and after some hits its to block HR/TR/CW etc (quarantedd that it will happen)its gm breaks and its power goes back to 10k.And in order to have 10K power this GF must sacrifice nearly all of his stats.Conq were the first widespread build when GFs were kings.You wil not meet many in PVP since in PVE are less important that tactician or/and defender and people tend to use their build both PVP and PVE.
Most of the overgeared GFs are Conq build cause were the first.They survive cause thier R9/10 gear not their build.And this makes impressions that the build is super.objective but i think it is not.
"they do not even try to dodge in alot of cases"
Not all classes can dodge.
i can hold that damage resistance for 5 seconds.. and can only do this with daily up, and unstoppable at same time with its stackings.
nope.. i also have low regeneration, but I can return full health because I can heal about 16k hitpoints with the waters artifact and potion, and in 6 seconds be healed for that amount. though you could do the same, etc et al. Sprint is fast, but you have dodges, and ranged attacks, and can catch up / control / keep damaging from ranged in most cases. or if not, like a tr, you can stealth and run as fast as sprint, and hold stealth longer and keep it up longer and catch up. Not to mention cash mounts.
I want to say something here, no class is offensive or defensive naturally. To say that is stupid. You dress to be offensive or defensive, and yes there have been tank cw's with good defense, deflect, granted not as high as a gwf, but with shield for even more damage reduction, and they were able to solo much of castle never back in the day. they were scary, though recovery still outshined them, ust because they really dont need to tank. ever :P
a very defensive gwf sent can reach very high damage reduction at very specific times (unstoppable + daily, if daily is whirlwind with feet get that 25% defense bonus and 100% deflect etc et al) yeah, they are defensive for a reason. However they may crt at max rank 10 enchants etc, for around 15k with perf vorpal.
However, a gf fully offensive with 40% def (easily gotten) 10k power, can be completely immune to damage from a shield, and even if has no block meter left, can still use encounters that crit over 20k without the damage bonus.. yes.. yes that IS normal. Its the build that makes you offensive or defensive man, the build, not the class you are.
and no.. for 10k power.. that does not count artifacts, which do not get the bonuses, you can still have over 40% damage reduction, around 30% deflect, with 10k power, and stil have around 40k health.
You are correct, for them to keep the damage increase from conq, they cant use their shield, or at least much.
However to make up for this, they do have skills and at wills to close the distance. Also why the distance prone, leapfrog / prone etc was so big, because for just that, you could kill anyone in most cases, as long as first prone hit :P
not only this, as the huge benefit with con being first with their hit points etc, and stacking hitpoints from defense runes, and getting more defense from artifacts, even with a lower deflect so?
you still have nice survivability that is very hard to deal with.
Also they are great in pve. Here is the thing, the gf is not there to tank everything. That is not his purpose. Is not the cw's purpose to control? The gf's purpose is to take the threat of the things the cw cannot control, that are immune, to keep the ones safe that need it, when they need it. A conq gwf, has the threat from skills, and has damage, and yeah, they keep it better because of their much higher damage, and since they do still have defence and high health, have high survivability.
Also a single cw can deal with every add from every boss fight except frozen heart because of the ones with immunity after a while, and say, archers.. and even then with a healer the archers are easy to outheal on all cases. burn the adds to death and keep burning while boss is being burned down by 3 people. with cw and dc together, cw killing all the adds constantly, healer keeping him in seal, and giving spot healing where needed by range to the other three fighting boss, everything is fast and easy, andonly need to do things like kite on all those immune mobs, and only then.
kite kite kite my ***.
anyway.
You control a gwf with strong grasping roots, which comes from a melee ability. weak grasping roots from ranged, and constricting arrow, which just happens to be one of your buffs for damage reduction and such.
You see my hr is a healer / buffer and is geared for higher defense / deflect. My boar hide power gives me an additional 20% mitigation that cannot be ignored even by tr's executoiners daily. I also get 25% mitigation, though in that 1v1 in melee range, i get 20% aditional from it. I get a further 10% reduction from the feat with my healing ability. im not logged in right now so forgive me forgetting the name.
but consider 40% defense, then 20% mitigation, then 20% mitigation, then 10% mitigation, that also heals me and gives me 12% temporary hitpoints.. yeah. i said before, but a lashing blade from stealth usually doesnt get rid of even just my temporary hit points, its that severe.
I also have the feat that when i use a melee skill, i reduce cooldowns on my ranged skils by 1 second, and since I have my enemy in strong grasping roots, from melee skill, i can use my buffs and keep them up from melee also.
I have 3k recovery right now, I will be bringing up to five, so without the class skill to reduce encounter times by 3 seconds, i should be able to always chain encounters.
you perm control the gwf by using strong grasping roots / constricting vines. 9 second ability and 6 second ability, and have a damage resistance that gwf's can never have unless by certain times.. and you can have it always. you can kil them by melee attacks if you wish, but i just use my encounters / single shot 25% daily or 10% depending on how fast i charge. it gets rather easy, but thats how its done.
for the last part, even a gwf can dodge if they want to slot the encounter for it, gf is the only class that cant, and they can close the distance with more abilities than any other class (save at times, gwf if they wished to be) to make up for the lack of dodge.
edit : sorry, was cooking and eating writing this, and this is freakin sloppy, but understandable.
A sentinel gwf can take several times more damage than other people before going down. They can easily get 60% base damage reduction, the information on this thread is inaccurate as is the norm for this forum but this in particular because the sentinel endcap feat doesn't show on the character sheet. Throw on 25-50% dmg reduction from unstoppable, 5% from vigilant warlord set, and you got some pvp troll that can only be countered by other pvp trolls.
Everyone should have a cw for pve, and a gwf for pvp, and there will be CLASS BALANCE
/endthread
PvP Sentinels use the Vigilant Warlord set? News to me. 2pc Titans/2 pc GG is generally the standard.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
I understand exactly how damage reduction works. It caps at 80%, but anything over the cap counts towards armor penetration. I have approximately 57% and with full unstoppable it is 107%, meaning you would need over 27% arpen to get me below the cap. The Vigilant Warlord set sacrifices too many important stats.
I make plenty of people rage with my over 38K HPs, regen ticks over 2100, and near 40% Arpen. I also sacrifice Bravery, because the 15% extra damage from Trample the Fallen is money and I never have a problem with mobility. As for the earlier guy talking about grasping roots, it hardly slows down GWFs that know how to counter it.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
some things needed to be understood with this. this is how you get to 90% damage reduction
my def at 5k gives just over 50%.. i will be getting to 6k and my graph shows 52%.
titan set, so daily gives me 15% damage bonus.. so after the 50%, im now at 57%.
the bonuses do not stack. it takes away 15% of the remainder
50% unstoppable.. gives 25% damage reduction..
now nearly at 70
and on and on and on.
because my daily gives me 100% deflect, at 53% deflect severity from boon, etc etc etc. 85% from that, I get a bit more though, cause of the 25% defense bonus from the daily etc, and i can hold it for 5 seconds.. at about a total combined of 90% damage reduction.
compraed to an hr, that starts at 40% armor...
then add 25% from feat
then add 20% from one skill
then add 10% from another skill
adds up to a constant around 70% damage reduction
with only one needing to be refreshed, and the other lowering only with more people closer to him, which means no longer soloing.. anything dies ganged down.
also the armor pen mentioned is wrong. IT does NOT lower the damage resistance of a person, itlowers their armor only.
so while i have say, 5k armor. you get rid of 30% of my armor, i am now at what.. 3500 armor, i am down to around 45% as a sentinal for damage reduction.
isnt that nice there is a REASON you stack defense.
p.s.s. dodge 3 times towards the gwf running away, and you can nearly keep up. tr's can keep up easier since they get the same run speed bonuses while stealthed, and can keep up stealth much longer than a gwf can sprint. hr's also get same runspeed in their stealth, for 5 seconds.. and can grasp roots at range etc et al, so i really dont wanna hear that complaint of gwf's running.
last thing, the last feat of gwf, that IS added in. but scroll down where you see protection, the bonus is added there, and the dr modifier is given there. it says your defense is more effective, not that you get that much more defense, which is why it is at the bottom section under defense and such.
and no to 60% damage reduction as a base. at 6k def i wont have that much. even if i pushed 7k which means all 3 artifacts, and changing rings to have that amount for defensive slots, would be i think 7k.. my graph shows 57%
Is ArP really lowering defense, and not DR ignored? Nice to know. If that's the case, then stacking defense even at hard cap could allow a GWF to endure debuffs and ArP more.
Going down with defense, i noticed that it really drops fast only at 1k or less. I mean, you go from 2.5k to 1.5k, it is a 5% reduction for almost 1k stat lost. But when you get to 900 defense, you are down at 24% or something like that.
Must also note how GWFs are most of the time under multiple Attacks and debuffs. Yesterday i took my time to look at my defense while being focused by a GWF with normal terror and i think a CW. I went down to -253 defense (negative). So stacking defense could be useful, but at that point wouldn't you stack deflection? Unless you already capped deflection too. Then, more defense in place of stacked HPs?
Last thing i want to ask...how do you get 5k defense, 48% deflect and still be at 6k power and 2.5k crit? Look like very high numbers to me.
Must really, really have godlike gear, artifacts, everything.
Is ArP really lowering defense, and not DR ignored? Nice to know. If that's the case, then stacking defense even at hard cap could allow a GWF to endure debuffs and ArP more.
.
I'd be hesistant to believe that post that said that. It definately contains at least one factual error about the deflect boon as it is bugged and only provides .7% extra deflect not 3%. With at least one error in it, the entire post becomes suspect to me.
Comments
he just stated why he doesnt make that much AD himself, he just doesnt notice it.
If youre gonna pvp ONLY without buying zen, youre pretty much not gonna be a rich guy. so much opportunities and time wasted specially for someone who started in beta, its too late now since the DD farming opportunities have been stumped, DD chest loots became BoP, CN prices going down the drain.
You got it. I am a serious pvp only cleric which stacked up a lot daily dungeon quests and didn't clear them. I only cleared 3 T1 except Mad Dragon, and rather do pvp than gg pvp. Btw someone using cleric since beta should know not to do dungeon unless you are VERY tanky as the threat mechanics is broken, at that moment i stop pve and jumped into pvp till now (casted an astral seal and all mobs include boss swarm to me).
Even i start to realise pve farmers are very very rich than me and got T2 MH set and T2.5 CN weapons, it was too late to do dungeons as the bug and exploit are removed and you are harder to clear the dungeon without appropriate gear and stats, but without clearing it you cant get good gear!! So i pick the easier path, farmed 3 pieces of T1 HP set and buy the helm from AH as i cant clear the dungeon with pug, wiped tons of time at last dragon. This is why i am poor, but i did clear all pvp dailies every day till now as all of my characters do not clear any pve task and are leveled purely by pvp after they reach level 10. Currently atm at least i did something all beta players / caturday survivor does, all sharandar and dread boons unlocked, MC VT unlocked, Mailsmithing maxed, Leadership & Artificing at 18. Thats all.
Sadly we all went through the pains of running content while undergeared (at least the F2P ones). I farmed my High Vizier set from random queue pugging, if you believe it, you cannot imagine how many failed runs that was. Started CN only when I had full T2 and R5s already, and humbly asked for advice on what should I do. Tried to learn from people and improve from complete newbie to at least half-decent player. There were many moments of pain and inner rage along the way, such as making my team wait for me for full 15 minutes before Xivros while I died again and again trying to learn the jump. Even like this, some liked me, and invited me again, probably only when they didn't had better CWs online first... but time passed, and things changed for the better.
So yeah. It's a lot of work and a lot of annoyance. It is expected to be like this in MMOs, although this one is particularly heavy in farming. Up to you if you wanna go through it, or remain undergeared.
Before DD chests became BoP, it was very easy to look for a party as a DC for T2s and CN, you either sell those items or keep them and sell when the prices went up. I have met some so many people that we would do a few CNs, and then some PvP. So if you're not willing to work for those AD, then it's your own choice you're running with R5s and not R9s or R10s.
I'm sorry to say but you won't find a spot in the highest level PvP premade matches running with R5s and lessers, especially for a DC which they should be as tanky as possible.
Also DCs haven't been getting the threat in dungeons for a long time, CWs have to worry about that.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
Define: good
i think you can't get any more vague on this one
A skilled tanky pvp dc can troll a point and survive for a long time vs just about most toons 1v1. This keeps the point contested.
You basically changed the word "good" with "skilled", yeah my bad ..i thought you can't get any more vague but i forgot about the word "skill" which in terms gaming is so overused is borderline meaningless now
Let's take the scenario of a GWF with threatening rush meaning is in melee range 100%:
starts with frontline surge, big crits from this CC ability, takedown, indomitable strength and finishes with indomitable battle strike
I think GWFs with this set of abilities are pretty mainstream and this means several seconds you're on the ground UNABLE TO CAST ANY ABILITY and by the time this sequence ends you're dead.
Where does the skill part come in? where is the skill in a game where you can take a player from 100% to dead while he is UNABLE TO RETALIATE.
I gave you an example and all you did is throw out empty words like "skilled" and "good" like they would allow you to bypass game mechanics and use "dodge and heal and use chains" while proned.
Also if being good at the game is such a simple concept for you how come you're unable to explain it?
The skill part is in gearing&speccing appropriately for such situation; using dodges at the right time (you will still eat FLS and then full combo many times though); sunbursting the GWF off points or to interrupt casts; using Exaltation properly and so on.
Basically with correct PvP build and good gear, a DC will survive through a GWF combo and start to regen and heal back. Don't expect to stall the rank 10 BiS sent however on a r7 PvE DC.
sent gwf, if they are pushing like mine, has 52% def, 48% deflect (or little more) with around 6k power and 2500 crit.
a cw can prone 3 times and do high damage, before i can unstoppable because of prone. they can dodge and yes.. walk backwards while i sprint to get into range.. and then after 6 seconds, unless they were stupid casting magic missile or something, they can still dodge my encounters (that are most likely still in cooldown anyway), and perm prone me because while spamming their encounters, their fast action pont gain means they can also ice knife.
35k hitpoints still goes extremely, extremely fast at this point. I still have to use potions / artifacts to delay and hope that cw makes a mistake and i can pounce, and hopefully kill fast enough.
most cw's are NOT good though, didnt build their character to take advantage of all their control / etc, and just die. that is largely their fault.
hr's can do a good job of nearly completely disabling a gwf from ranged, however, most hr's in that build do not do enough damage even with vorpals to finish the job because of a gwf' ability to survive. but these are also bad hr's. A good hr, has defense also, and is balanced, can ontrol from ranged, change to melee, control the gwf with their melee, and swap back to ranged and full heal while ontrolling more (without rec.. with rec well ****.. can you say my hr has 40% def, and 42% deflect, 30k hitpoints, and 50% damage resistance from buffs as a healer hr lol.. most stealth lashing blades dont even take me out of the temp hitponts i put up).
These are the hr's that are deadly in pvp.. not the others.. and the ones that can completely shut down a gwf.
gf's can reach around 20k power.. prone / mark prone / cripple etc a gwf, and easily survive the gwf's damage after until their unstoppable washes off.. and then wash rince repeat with their own encounters.
much of the time they can kill gwf's outright depending on build, with just their three encounters.
(or any other class, but they lack the survivability of a defensive / annoying gf)
as my build with gwf.. i can reach up to 90% damage reduction with all things stacked (i use odd things to do it with, as well as titans etc) in temporary cases. At my greatest damage resistance, a balls to the walls offensive tr can nearly oneshot me with a crit from 1 daily.
they also have much faster natural recharge speed thana gwf. isnt that nice?
They dont even need defensive to survive well because of stealth and stacking stealth from encounters, that keep them stealthed. even nicer? lets make it nicer and give them a dot at will that on mine hits for 8-9k non crit, and i have another at will that hits up to 8 times with rising damage. i will say lol. isnt THAT nice?
anyway.
most people in pvp are bad players. i would say around 70%. The reason for this is.. much of the time is spent with people that dont like pvp, dont want to pvp, cant handle pvp (or even pve) well, and just want that 4k ad from the daily. They go in.. and rush the back node like oh my god enemies are out there! i will back myself into the corner, screw over my own team, and go here.
they do not even try to dodge in alot of cases.. wont even try to get to a node much less stand on it.. only run around away from as many enemies as they can hoping they wont die.
however on this team is usually one or two good people that try their asses off.. but because of these bad people, they are often fighting a 2v5 against them, with the 2 people having.. well.. not even3 other people because of their lack of even trying.
These people are also usually the ones to leave the party, because of the bad people being just that bad. not beccause of the enemy team, but because of their own team.
The greatest reason people leave teams is not because of enemy team being strong, it is because their own teammates are so bad they help the enemy team.
as a truth, i look at these posts, and i see them as a joke, because the person behind it is likely little more thana bad player, complaining, and really, they are just a bad player, and that is all.
+ "as my build with gwf.. i can reach up to 90% damage reduction with all things stacked"
You do realize that 90% DR means simply you are immune to PROLONGED period of time to any damage?And even then you can sprint and return in full health cause the ridicoulous regenaration you have?
Do you know that the tankiest builds of GFs rarely reach 52% DR?In any case?And you have an OFFENSIVE class DOUBLE its DR?And you consider that normal?
Unstoppable with right management can happen way too often,that is unacceptable.
"A good hr, has defense also, and is balanced, can ontrol from ranged, change to melee, control the gwf with their melee"
Control GWF with their melee????? What do you mean?How a class with 28-32DR and half your melee dmg can control you?
"gf's can reach around 20k power"
The only GFs that can reach this number,which i highly doubt ,highly are the Conq build.Their power is plasmatic not real.It is the effect of unbroken ,full Guard meter.That means If a guy raises his shield and after some hits its to block HR/TR/CW etc (quarantedd that it will happen)its gm breaks and its power goes back to 10k.And in order to have 10K power this GF must sacrifice nearly all of his stats.Conq were the first widespread build when GFs were kings.You wil not meet many in PVP since in PVE are less important that tactician or/and defender and people tend to use their build both PVP and PVE.
Most of the overgeared GFs are Conq build cause were the first.They survive cause thier R9/10 gear not their build.And this makes impressions that the build is super.objective but i think it is not.
"they do not even try to dodge in alot of cases"
Not all classes can dodge.
nope.. i also have low regeneration, but I can return full health because I can heal about 16k hitpoints with the waters artifact and potion, and in 6 seconds be healed for that amount. though you could do the same, etc et al. Sprint is fast, but you have dodges, and ranged attacks, and can catch up / control / keep damaging from ranged in most cases. or if not, like a tr, you can stealth and run as fast as sprint, and hold stealth longer and keep it up longer and catch up. Not to mention cash mounts.
I want to say something here, no class is offensive or defensive naturally. To say that is stupid. You dress to be offensive or defensive, and yes there have been tank cw's with good defense, deflect, granted not as high as a gwf, but with shield for even more damage reduction, and they were able to solo much of castle never back in the day. they were scary, though recovery still outshined them, ust because they really dont need to tank. ever :P
a very defensive gwf sent can reach very high damage reduction at very specific times (unstoppable + daily, if daily is whirlwind with feet get that 25% defense bonus and 100% deflect etc et al) yeah, they are defensive for a reason. However they may crt at max rank 10 enchants etc, for around 15k with perf vorpal.
However, a gf fully offensive with 40% def (easily gotten) 10k power, can be completely immune to damage from a shield, and even if has no block meter left, can still use encounters that crit over 20k without the damage bonus.. yes.. yes that IS normal. Its the build that makes you offensive or defensive man, the build, not the class you are.
and no.. for 10k power.. that does not count artifacts, which do not get the bonuses, you can still have over 40% damage reduction, around 30% deflect, with 10k power, and stil have around 40k health.
You are correct, for them to keep the damage increase from conq, they cant use their shield, or at least much.
However to make up for this, they do have skills and at wills to close the distance. Also why the distance prone, leapfrog / prone etc was so big, because for just that, you could kill anyone in most cases, as long as first prone hit :P
not only this, as the huge benefit with con being first with their hit points etc, and stacking hitpoints from defense runes, and getting more defense from artifacts, even with a lower deflect so?
you still have nice survivability that is very hard to deal with.
Also they are great in pve. Here is the thing, the gf is not there to tank everything. That is not his purpose. Is not the cw's purpose to control? The gf's purpose is to take the threat of the things the cw cannot control, that are immune, to keep the ones safe that need it, when they need it. A conq gwf, has the threat from skills, and has damage, and yeah, they keep it better because of their much higher damage, and since they do still have defence and high health, have high survivability.
Also a single cw can deal with every add from every boss fight except frozen heart because of the ones with immunity after a while, and say, archers.. and even then with a healer the archers are easy to outheal on all cases. burn the adds to death and keep burning while boss is being burned down by 3 people. with cw and dc together, cw killing all the adds constantly, healer keeping him in seal, and giving spot healing where needed by range to the other three fighting boss, everything is fast and easy, andonly need to do things like kite on all those immune mobs, and only then.
kite kite kite my ***.
anyway.
You control a gwf with strong grasping roots, which comes from a melee ability. weak grasping roots from ranged, and constricting arrow, which just happens to be one of your buffs for damage reduction and such.
You see my hr is a healer / buffer and is geared for higher defense / deflect. My boar hide power gives me an additional 20% mitigation that cannot be ignored even by tr's executoiners daily. I also get 25% mitigation, though in that 1v1 in melee range, i get 20% aditional from it. I get a further 10% reduction from the feat with my healing ability. im not logged in right now so forgive me forgetting the name.
but consider 40% defense, then 20% mitigation, then 20% mitigation, then 10% mitigation, that also heals me and gives me 12% temporary hitpoints.. yeah. i said before, but a lashing blade from stealth usually doesnt get rid of even just my temporary hit points, its that severe.
I also have the feat that when i use a melee skill, i reduce cooldowns on my ranged skils by 1 second, and since I have my enemy in strong grasping roots, from melee skill, i can use my buffs and keep them up from melee also.
I have 3k recovery right now, I will be bringing up to five, so without the class skill to reduce encounter times by 3 seconds, i should be able to always chain encounters.
you perm control the gwf by using strong grasping roots / constricting vines. 9 second ability and 6 second ability, and have a damage resistance that gwf's can never have unless by certain times.. and you can have it always. you can kil them by melee attacks if you wish, but i just use my encounters / single shot 25% daily or 10% depending on how fast i charge. it gets rather easy, but thats how its done.
for the last part, even a gwf can dodge if they want to slot the encounter for it, gf is the only class that cant, and they can close the distance with more abilities than any other class (save at times, gwf if they wished to be) to make up for the lack of dodge.
edit : sorry, was cooking and eating writing this, and this is freakin sloppy, but understandable.
PvP Sentinels use the Vigilant Warlord set? News to me. 2pc Titans/2 pc GG is generally the standard.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
I make plenty of people rage with my over 38K HPs, regen ticks over 2100, and near 40% Arpen. I also sacrifice Bravery, because the 15% extra damage from Trample the Fallen is money and I never have a problem with mobility. As for the earlier guy talking about grasping roots, it hardly slows down GWFs that know how to counter it.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
my def at 5k gives just over 50%.. i will be getting to 6k and my graph shows 52%.
titan set, so daily gives me 15% damage bonus.. so after the 50%, im now at 57%.
the bonuses do not stack. it takes away 15% of the remainder
50% unstoppable.. gives 25% damage reduction..
now nearly at 70
and on and on and on.
because my daily gives me 100% deflect, at 53% deflect severity from boon, etc etc etc. 85% from that, I get a bit more though, cause of the 25% defense bonus from the daily etc, and i can hold it for 5 seconds.. at about a total combined of 90% damage reduction.
compraed to an hr, that starts at 40% armor...
then add 25% from feat
then add 20% from one skill
then add 10% from another skill
adds up to a constant around 70% damage reduction
with only one needing to be refreshed, and the other lowering only with more people closer to him, which means no longer soloing.. anything dies ganged down.
also the armor pen mentioned is wrong. IT does NOT lower the damage resistance of a person, itlowers their armor only.
so while i have say, 5k armor. you get rid of 30% of my armor, i am now at what.. 3500 armor, i am down to around 45% as a sentinal for damage reduction.
isnt that nice
p.s.s. dodge 3 times towards the gwf running away, and you can nearly keep up. tr's can keep up easier since they get the same run speed bonuses while stealthed, and can keep up stealth much longer than a gwf can sprint. hr's also get same runspeed in their stealth, for 5 seconds.. and can grasp roots at range etc et al, so i really dont wanna hear that complaint of gwf's running.
last thing, the last feat of gwf, that IS added in. but scroll down where you see protection, the bonus is added there, and the dr modifier is given there. it says your defense is more effective, not that you get that much more defense, which is why it is at the bottom section under defense and such.
and no to 60% damage reduction as a base. at 6k def i wont have that much. even if i pushed 7k which means all 3 artifacts, and changing rings to have that amount for defensive slots, would be i think 7k.. my graph shows 57%
Going down with defense, i noticed that it really drops fast only at 1k or less. I mean, you go from 2.5k to 1.5k, it is a 5% reduction for almost 1k stat lost. But when you get to 900 defense, you are down at 24% or something like that.
Must also note how GWFs are most of the time under multiple Attacks and debuffs. Yesterday i took my time to look at my defense while being focused by a GWF with normal terror and i think a CW. I went down to -253 defense (negative). So stacking defense could be useful, but at that point wouldn't you stack deflection? Unless you already capped deflection too. Then, more defense in place of stacked HPs?
Last thing i want to ask...how do you get 5k defense, 48% deflect and still be at 6k power and 2.5k crit? Look like very high numbers to me.
Must really, really have godlike gear, artifacts, everything.
I'd be hesistant to believe that post that said that. It definately contains at least one factual error about the deflect boon as it is bugged and only provides .7% extra deflect not 3%. With at least one error in it, the entire post becomes suspect to me.