I've respecced my GF into the Tactician tree on the preview shard and testing it. As for the KC set, as you are experiencing, Chartillifax is being a jerk and won't give me a decent chest.
My only issue is my GS plummets by 4k in the KC set and LFG is all about p.enis size, so they see 12.8k GF and probably think ''nub'' when in reality everything about my build will make them better.
Umm GF's get more gs with feats than other classes, so that seeing 12k on a gf is very low for the class. I think I had 11-12k with my dc after capping and spending 30k ad on the ah, which is really nothing at endgame for money. Something is really wrong if you can only hit 12k even in t1 gear.
2. Those "prones" they shoot out should really stun in AoE. And a long stun too. Do this by making those hit get up really slow (like they just got hit by a truck). .
i dont want to get everybody's hopes up but i think thats what there currently working on on the shard wich would be sweet!!!!!
second, all this gwf vs gf you need to remember that gwf needed a significant amount of love because they where in our shoes for 8 months. with all this said im sure theres a bright future for the gf coming up soon
Umm GF's get more gs with feats than other classes, so that seeing 12k on a gf is very low for the class. I think I had 11-12k with my dc after capping and spending 30k ad on the ah, which is really nothing at endgame for money. Something is really wrong if you can only hit 12k even in t1 gear.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I am the user who opened this thread for those who see me writing for the first time. First, I would like to tell all of you "thank you" for your numerous replies you gave me, and the posts you wrote in response to other users' posts. This means that the game community is well alive and strong, although we might have different opinion about classes, game styles, and so on..
I read all your comments, and I decided to post a message again to directly reply to some of you, and to give you more detailed information about my GF, and about my play style. Soon, i promise, I will post a full Valindra run with my guild mates. Please, we already went through the discussion about the utility of tanks in dungeon parties, therefore do not continue to read here if you have just to make "destructive comments" (I am making direct reference to some CW who wrote in this thread). Because I really love my GF, and I believe that this class really needs to be re-evaluated, I decided to share my build with you.
Let's start with direct replies.
I personally want to THANK Caexar, Pinot, and those who sent me in game messages, telling me that finally someone decided to stand in favor of the GF class, instead of writing threads like "Let's ban the GF class"/"GF useless"/"GF dead weight in party dungeon" and so on..
Second, thank you to the user who posted the iron maiden build on the web. I liked it, it is tough.
Then, I would like to reply to SEAN999 who wrote a post commenting my words when i say "I do not share my build with you". Sean, if this is your name, I used these words only to reply to some other user who said that I have no credibility, so I should have posted my build. In light of this explanation, I invite you to write something more fruitful in this thread instead of commenting my words to other players.
Lastly, I assisted to verbal fights, a declining quality in the use of terminology, and weakening arguments. My fellows, stop fighting each other while using inappropriate language, this is a battle among the poor! What I mean is that we are all players of the same game, so we really should be more tolerant between each others, even when we have different game-views, and we really should try to be each others' wing men. If you have to argue against someone, open your thread and write a message to Cryptic to tell them to give us a more balanced, fairer game for everyone! ...Did you do this already? Possibly, but I guess it was not enough, because we still have lot of game play problems.
Now, Let me share with you my build. I have to thank DKCandy for the basic version that I modified myself for the best outcome in relation with my aggressive play style.
Armor Set: Knights Captain FULL (Buff all the team)
Weapon: Sword of the Fallen Dragon
Shield: Shield of the Fallen Dragon
Neck: Ancient Excorcist's necklace of Blessing
Rings: Ancient Berserker’s Ring of Cleaving x2
Belt: Blue Belt RECOVERY 243; POWER 133 (cannot remember the name)
Shirt: Gemmed Exquisite Shirt
Pants: Gemmed Exquisite Pants
Utility Slots: This is up to what you prefer
Defensive Slots: Radiant Enchantments: Rank 7 770: Health Each (my ones need to be upgraded)
Offensive Slots: Radiant Enchantments: Rank 8 220: Power Each
Armor Enchantment: lesser soulforged (I just need it if I ever fall)
Weapon Enchantment: Perfect Vorpal (Crit damage rocks!)
Ioun Stone of Allure (Level 30):
Offensive Slot 1: Profane Runestone, Rank 8: 220 CRT
Offensive Slot 2: Profane Runestone, Rank 8: 220 CRT
Defensive Slot 3: Eldritch Runestone, Rank 8: 9% Pet Stats
Ring: Pyrotechnic band /w Radiant Enchantment Rank 8: 220 Power
Neck: Ancient Excorcist's necklace of Blessing /w Radiant Enchantment Rank 8: 220 Power
Icon: Greater Icon of Retribution /w Radiant Enchantment Rank 8: 220 Power
Sharandar Boons: you should find the best outcome for your play-style, but I chose for
Boon 1 - Power
Boon 2 - Critical strike
Boon 3 - 2% AP
Boon 4 - 400 HP healed
Boon 5 - 10% recovery guard during combat
Dread ring boons: same as before, but I chose for
Boon 1 - 125 Power and Movement
Boon 2 - 250 lifesteal
boon 3 - 250 Ar. Pen.
Boon 4 - Chance to heal 1000 HP
Boon 5 - Rampaging madness (600 Power; 300 Lifesteal; 300 Regen)
Artifacts: (at current level)
Valindra's Crown - 74
Lantern of revelation - 94
Book of the Thayan Dead - 61
Pets: (at current level)
Ioun - purple
Frozen Mimic - green + 100 defense
Con Artist - green + 100 critical strike
Gwf woman (buy it for 2 gold) - green + 100 power
Fawn of Shialla - green + 100 recovery
Character Stats with Pet Buff:
Hit Points: 30100+
Power: 10400 ca
Critical Strike: 2150 (23% almost)
Armor Pen: 2020 (20% + 4 from Dex for 24%, and there is no fire augmentation with this result)
Recovery: 2001 (16%+)
Defense: 3989 (45.7%)
Deflect: 626 (7.5%)
Regeneration: 699 (5.8%)
Life Steal: 1485 (10.8%)
Daily: Terrifying Impact and Fighter’s Recovery
Passives: Combat Superiority and Trample the Fallen
Encounters: Front line Surge, Lunging Strike and Enforced Threat
At will: Cleave, Threatening Rush
Other Comments:
Average damages in a guild party made of 2CW, 1DC, 1GWF using...
Cleave, 2k - 3k each swing and each enemy (Critical damage 3k - 6k) / amazing when you get 2-3 crits consecutively = 15K - 20K
Lunging strike, 12 - 16K every 6 seconds (Critical damage 22k - 28k)
Enforced Threat, 4K - 5K each enemy (x5) - (Critical Damage 7K-11K, usually crit applies to max 3-4 enemies)
Frontline Surge, 8K - 14K each enemy (x3) - (Critical Damage 15K-30K, hardly predictable damage)
Terrifying Impact, 10K - 15K each enemy (x5) - (Critical Damage 20K - 30K, it often crit, and it always apply to x5 enemies)
Thank you again DKCandy. I hope to meet you someday and to have your opinion about how I continued what you started.
I will be posting soon a video. Thank you again everyone
Hmmm...well it's nice gear, I'll definitely give you that.
As far as I'm aware, pet power doesn't benefit from reckless, so if I were you (and you seem pretty keen to stack power) I'd try and shift as many non-power stats from you to the stone.
Also, vorpal? GFs are the class that benefit the absolute least from crit (we don't even have any ability scores that give it), so if you've got the money for perfect X, perfect almost anything else would probably be a better choice (for both you and your team). Lighting for lol threatz, terror or plaguefire to help spread the debuff love, etc.
Finally, terrifying impact? I've actually not used this since level "low whatevers", but as I recall it was more or less a souped up FLS? Is it really that good? Seems kinda a waste of a daily, really: we're not designed to do damage (though 15k per hit is impressive), so I've always rocked with SoS, since one thing I can definitely ensure is "getting hit by everyone".
Also, regen seems low. With that many HP, I'd stack regen like crazy. Also, deflect could stand to go up, maybe?
damanhur89 thanks for posting your build. I just wondered:
1) Why you have 3 points in combat superiority? Unless I am mistaken you only need one point if you have 5/5 in Tactical Superiority. Stick the spare 2 on Supremecy of Steel. I have just started using this and it is awesome in Dunegons when taking lots of damage. Plus its good for annoying perma stealth rogues in pvp.
2) If you are stacking lifesteal should you not have taken Endless Consumption boon instead of madness? I don't use lifesteal on my GF but people have said we don't do neough damage quick enough for it to be as useful as regen (haven't tested this tho)
Also with your feats I assume you took like 1 point in Take Measure and Grit to benefit from Wraitful Warrior? Not sure if the temp points last long enough with just 1 to be of any use for that though.
Also I would agree morsitans P vorpal seems a bit wasted unless you have full timeless and use that when you dont need to buff the group.
I am the user who opened this thread for those who see me writing for the first time. First, I would like to tell all of you "thank you" for your numerous replies you gave me, and the posts you wrote in response to other users' posts. This means that the game community is well alive and strong, although we might have different opinion about classes, game styles, and so on..
I read all your comments, and I decided to post a message again to directly reply to some of you, and to give you more detailed information about my GF, and about my play style. Soon, i promise, I will post a full Valindra run with my guild mates. Please, we already went through the discussion about the utility of tanks in dungeon parties, therefore do not continue to read here if you have just to make "destructive comments" (I am making direct reference to some CW who wrote in this thread). Because I really love my GF, and I believe that this class really needs to be re-evaluated, I decided to share my build with you.
Let's start with direct replies.
I personally want to THANK Caexar, Pinot, and those who sent me in game messages, telling me that finally someone decided to stand in favor of the GF class, instead of writing threads like "Let's ban the GF class"/"GF useless"/"GF dead weight in party dungeon" and so on..
Second, thank you to the user who posted the iron maiden build on the web. I liked it, it is tough.
Then, I would like to reply to SEAN999 who wrote a post commenting my words when i say "I do not share my build with you". Sean, if this is your name, I used these words only to reply to some other user who said that I have no credibility, so I should have posted my build. In light of this explanation, I invite you to write something more fruitful in this thread instead of commenting my words to other players.
Lastly, I assisted to verbal fights, a declining quality in the use of terminology, and weakening arguments. My fellows, stop fighting each other while using inappropriate language, this is a battle among the poor! What I mean is that we are all players of the same game, so we really should be more tolerant between each others, even when we have different game-views, and we really should try to be each others' wing men. If you have to argue against someone, open your thread and write a message to Cryptic to tell them to give us a more balanced, fairer game for everyone! ...Did you do this already? Possibly, but I guess it was not enough, because we still have lot of game play problems.
Now, Let me share with you my build. I have to thank DKCandy for the basic version that I modified myself for the best outcome in relation with my aggressive play style.
I like your build and philosophy it mirrors mine i hate fighting them but i felt i had to. I'm going to stop doing this and let them think what they want.
I have read many of your complains and want to ad my thoughts. Forget my language skills, it's not my native language and also forget me, if i write about something, that has been already discussed, i want to write my hurt feelings out.
To the point, as i stated in the title, i think GFs will be dead or a rarety in Neverwinter's world. Why?
We all know, that how much we try to defend our hurt feelings and beloved character from people, who bash on us, because they don't know game mechanics and never ever played D&D actually before, be it in a game or the real life paper&pen or tabletop version, the sad part is, we are a broken class. Broken into many pieces, so many, hat i can't even count into how many pieces.
We can try to experiment as long as we want with different kind of builds, it will still be broken, we just pay with AD or Zen and things still won't be near excaptable. Let me get this straight.
First of all, let me say i play D&D since nearly 20 years, so i might say i'm a bit of an expert in this field. I don't want to bash on any class, it will be only an example!
In the real life game nobody or rarely anybody wants to play a rogue, because they are weak by themselves. If we start a new campaign the DM always must pursuade someone to play it, whereas here it's a hell of over powered. I won't go into further details, i don't want to hurt the feelings of fellow players. Fighter classes are so much liked to play, that we sometimes have to limit the, 'cause we would have a team of clones. Here we Gfs, as one melee class are the bottom, we are simply bad in every aspect.
We can't hit, we have low power or if we spec our characters to have more power, it will still lack the capabilities of other fighters and as written above, hybrid methods aren't good, you must be either good for pvp and have more power or if you prefer dungeon runs, then you must give some points to defense too. An in-between character isn't good for anything. And to be honest, we are simply running behind in pvp, except if we get a very good group our we go there with guildies, but again nobody gives a hack about supporting role, except us.
We can't aggro as good or better than any other class.
We can't pull every add on the field, and that's one of the reasons why the most gamers bash on us. Most fellow players only see power, power...and don't give a **** about immovable object stat.
The power and feet tabs are completely useless, why are there options to choose from? If you don't choose the conqueror tree, you will be good, but compared to other GFs, you will be a big null.
The GS system is also completely broken for this class, i could go into details, but don't really have the lust for it. Just to say, i've deleted my first Gf, because everything i did, even purchased him many stuff, he was still staying on around 9k for almost 3 months, having complited nearly all Sharandar and Dead ring, and having had t2 gear and enchantments.
And here i come to my conclusion, it makes me sometimes very mad, on other days i would like to hide away from the others. Despite how many letters w write to Cryptic, to Wizards, to PWE, everybody ..... on our head.
I know this isn't a charity organization, but as a player, who as many of you has even contributed real money to the game i find it a disgusting company policy not even answer to so many complains, but i'm really mad at Wizards, they are the parent company for D&D, they should make an effort, and really fast know!
So yes, i think like you guys to, that there are many fellow players, who don't see the importance of a GF, but i hear it many times, that this dungeon can be done without us, and we are only the weakest link. This isn't absolutely true, but has some point, we can't disagree totally. Of course i know to, that many peeps, who lack the skills, like bad healers or CWs, try to disguise ther own lack of ability with this kinda talk, that we are a broken class, but if Cryptic would fix us, than we wouldn't have to hear to these people.
Im at the point, that i love the game, but sometimes i don't go for DD runs, just to relax a bit.
Cheers!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Good to see some in here are positive about the GF.
As far as I'm concerned the class is viable AND useful. And my Guild thinks so as well.
I've been able to perform a true tanking role (yes I do have to kite in some fights; but I also get to boss tank as well)...
Why do I tank? because my Guild mates have both the skill and the knowledge to take advantage of a nearly unkillable aggro generator.
We're now doing full clears of tier 2 with little to no trouble.
And this with balanced groups (RARELY taking 2 of the same class).
Anyone who chimes in with a statement of "This or That class is useless" comments is not only being foolish; they are also demonstrating a complete lack of ability.
'Nuff said.
Good to see some in here are positive about the GF.
As far as I'm concerned the class is viable AND useful. And my Guild thinks so as well.
I've been able to perform a true tanking role (yes I do have to kite in some fights; but I also get to boss tank as well)...
Why do I tank? because my Guild mates have both the skill and the knowledge to take advantage of a nearly unkillable aggro generator.
We're now doing full clears of tier 2 with little to no trouble.
And this with balanced groups (RARELY taking 2 of the same class).
Anyone who chimes in with a statement of "This or That class is useless" comments is not only being foolish; they are also demonstrating a complete lack of ability.
'Nuff said.
No not 'Nuff said unfortunately. I don't think anyone is of the opinion you can't clear a dungeon with a GF. However you are missing the big part of the problem. Dungeons only have a decent chance to drop loot that isn't salvage trash during dd from the dd chest. This means you want to get multiple runs in during the dd hour to gear your toon. Depending on your playtime you may only get a dd hour every once per night to once every few nights. This means that anything that does not help complete the dungeon at breakneck speed is not a viable class to most people. To do speed clears you need lots of aoe dmg and that means that you don't really want a GF as they are not aoe dps at all. Because of the mechanic of dd chests unless you can help speed up a run you will be unwanted. GF's do not speed up a run and are unwanted by most groups because of this. 'Nuff Said now.
Hmmm...well it's nice gear, I'll definitely give you that.
As far as I'm aware, pet power doesn't benefit from reckless, so if I were you (and you seem pretty keen to stack power) I'd try and shift as many non-power stats from you to the stone.
Also, vorpal? GFs are the class that benefit the absolute least from crit (we don't even have any ability scores that give it), so if you've got the money for perfect X, perfect almost anything else would probably be a better choice (for both you and your team). Lighting for lol threatz, terror or plaguefire to help spread the debuff love, etc.
Finally, terrifying impact? I've actually not used this since level "low whatevers", but as I recall it was more or less a souped up FLS? Is it really that good? Seems kinda a waste of a daily, really: we're not designed to do damage (though 15k per hit is impressive), so I've always rocked with SoS, since one thing I can definitely ensure is "getting hit by everyone".
Also, regen seems low. With that many HP, I'd stack regen like crazy. Also, deflect could stand to go up, maybe?
Anyway, thanks for sharing!
Thank you for your early reply Morsitas, I got some nice pieces of data for you today.
I already made some tests on my GF with the help of some of my guildmates too, and it came out that:
1. The PET GWF (the girl who you can buy for 2 golds) actually benefits from reckless feat, so if you bring her to LV30, you get a total of 600 points in Power. Very cool, right? Furthermore, you indicate that I should move my non-power stats from my PG to my pet. Do you refer to enchantments only, ot to some pieces of gear as well? You see, I got only Radiant enchantments on both my PG and my Ioun stone.
2. I tried the Greater Plaguefire, I liked it due to the fact that it debuffs enemies' defence, but the total outcome of damages that I could make was lower than when I use the P.Vorpal. I would like to give a try to terror and lighting in the future, though. Thanks for the reccomandation, I will keep them in mind for future upgrades.
3. I see your point about terrifying Impact. In fact, up until a few weeks ago, I prefered to use Villain Menace to ge some damage boost. Then, I met a new GF DPS who joined my guild, his name is "Beiro Wolfsbane" (Dark Illusion), and he told me to try this dayly in particular game circumstances, that is: when a CW uses Singularity, bring your GF close to it and use enforced threat to suck as many enemies as you can into the Singularity. When the enemies are in the air, get ready to use terrifying impact, and when enemies are almost on the ground, lunch the daily. In that moment enemies are still controlled, but the effect of Singularity is over, so you can get the best damage output. In these cases I also saw some 35-40K Critical Damage x5 enemies. Now, the question is, can Villain Menace do better that this? I am still testing myself.
Finally, you noticed that my regen is law as well as my defection. It might sounds cracy for you, but i got an idea for my build. I based it on Power and Lifesteal. As you know, the more power you have, the higher is your damage, right? Lifesteal "recover" my HP points according to a X % based on damage. In my case, I have more than 10% "recovery" of HP based on my damage output. Now, imagine I can make an average of 70K damage every power rotation I use - Front line surge (every 15 seconds), Enforced threat (12 seconds), lunging strike 6 seconds). This means, that I get cured 8-10K every 12-15 seconds. I think it is hard to explain using words, maybe I will show you in a video, ok?
Thank you for your attention, and patience, I hope to receive some constructive counter arguments to my thoughts soon from you soon! By the way, you have been constructing up until now
damanhur89 thanks for posting your build. I just wondered:
1) Why you have 3 points in combat superiority? Unless I am mistaken you only need one point if you have 5/5 in Tactical Superiority. Stick the spare 2 on Supremecy of Steel. I have just started using this and it is awesome in Dunegons when taking lots of damage. Plus its good for annoying perma stealth rogues in pvp.
2) If you are stacking lifesteal should you not have taken Endless Consumption boon instead of madness? I don't use lifesteal on my GF but people have said we don't do neough damage quick enough for it to be as useful as regen (haven't tested this tho)
Also with your feats I assume you took like 1 point in Take Measure and Grit to benefit from Wraitful Warrior? Not sure if the temp points last long enough with just 1 to be of any use for that though.
Also I would agree morsitans P vorpal seems a bit wasted unless you have full timeless and use that when you dont need to buff the group.
Very nice thoughts Evalira! I did not think about combat superiority in that way. You got me man! XD Actually, I was thinking about endless consumption, too. I will try it very soon, and update you, ok? Last point, I am not fully convinced either about temporary HP, because they do not last long, so I actually wanted to increase the Action Points generation (Action surge) to 3/5. What do you think?
Thank you for sharing you thoughts Matthiasthehun76. I want to compliment with you for your 20-year-time experience in DD, and I wanted thank you because you made me feel so young, I am only 24 XD ahah!
Your english is very good mate, so that you could explain better than I could do what is the current situation of the GF class in NWN. This class is surely not the top damage class, and we already have argued that all the other classes can do things better than we do. However, if the GF does not get fixed, and we have to play a broken class, then we have to temporarily somehow bypass the limitations that developers have imposed on our class. I found a way to enjoy my GF creating a DPS tank who has to be played with an aggressive style, so it can also be helpful in dungeon. My guildmates really like my build, and i mean not only other GFs, but I received compliments from all the other classes as well. My guild leader is an extremely powerful CW (CERBERA - I never saw another mage beating him in DPS) and he likes to play with me because I can remove aggro from him to help him cast full encounter rotations. The basic principle of this build is to make High DPS (for a GF) to collect aggro.
I hope that the Developers are going to improve the GF soon, as you mention in your message! But, please, do not lose your hope, and keep writing about your very nice thoughts!
Action Surge depends if you block alot. If your blocking and nearly dead then increased action points could get fighters recovery up and save you, but its not something that's easy to test to see how beneficial it is. Shielded Resurgence is good with 30k hits points you heal 1.2k with only a 30sec cd, it procs quite a lot, but isn't likely to save you.
I was wondering myself about the power from the companion and if it worked with reckless attacker so that's a great find. 600 power for 1.2m AD upgrade and 2g is alot cheaper than a rank 10.
Good to see some in here are positive about the GF.
As far as I'm concerned the class is viable AND useful. And my Guild thinks so as well.
I've been able to perform a true tanking role (yes I do have to kite in some fights; but I also get to boss tank as well)...
Why do I tank? because my Guild mates have both the skill and the knowledge to take advantage of a nearly unkillable aggro generator.
We're now doing full clears of tier 2 with little to no trouble.
And this with balanced groups (RARELY taking 2 of the same class).
Anyone who chimes in with a statement of "This or That class is useless" comments is not only being foolish; they are also demonstrating a complete lack of ability.
'Nuff said.
Hi wavecannon,
I am glad to see that there are many other players like me who still consider the GF a viable and useful class about the foolish ones, we give voice to everyone here, the only thing that matter is that everyone gives voice to his thoughts in a polite way.
My guildmates think I am a useful GF, too. Although we have different builds, this fact reinforces my, your, our (of the GFs) worldview, that the GF is the "best frontline class"; the GF jumps first on enemies, collets aggro, and it allows other classes to give the final blow to the enemies. Nice, to have met you! Keep up with good comments!
Action Surge depends if you block alot. If your blocking and nearly dead then increased action points could get fighters recovery up and save you, but its not something that's easy to test to see how beneficial it is. Shielded Resurgence is good with 30k hits points you heal 1.2k with only a 30sec cd, it procs quite a lot, but isn't likely to save you.
I was wondering myself about the power from the companion and if it worked with reckless attacker so that's a great find. 600 power for 1.2m AD upgrade and 2g is alot cheaper than a rank 10.
I have to reflect more about action surge then. Indeed, blocking is important in my build, but only to get AP. We both know that the block breaks soon, so I actually block only when it is strictly necessary. For instance, I block when I am inside multiple AoEs so to get quite a good amount of AP, but i do not block when I fight agaist bosses who weakly punch you. In this last case, I prefer to attack, make damage and have faith in my lifesteal statistic.
Very nice the discovery of the companion, I know XD thank you for your approve!
Lunging Strike: Now deals 1/3rd of its damage in a cone behind the primary target. Threat will be generated on these targets as if they were struck for the full amount.
Iron Warrior: While under the effect of Iron Warrior, players will now generate 150% more threat.
Bull Charge: Lunge distance has been increased from 18’ to 28’.
Frontline Surge: Cooldown has been reduced from 20 to 19 seconds. Target cap has been increased from 3 to 5. Damage has been reduced by 25%. Prone duration has been reduced against players. The ground splat has been increased to better represent effect area.
Feat Reinforced Surge: Now increases damage by 1/2/3/4/5%. Additional prone duration has been reduced to .1/.2/.3/.4/.5 seconds.
this doesn't look like a buff to me.
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dissssppppMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
I like your build and philosophy it mirrors mine i hate fighting them but i felt i had to. I'm going to stop doing this and let them think what they want.
if they wanna be ignorant let them be.
You said yourself that you've intentionally stagnated your gear to artificially make the game more difficult, which means you're not joining upper end groups and experiencing what better geared GF's are. I would say that makes you the ignorant one. And I don't mean that offensively. I mean it by definition of the word; you just don't know.
A common theme I see here are the people just breaking into T2 and finishing the dungeons view the class as ok overall. And it is when you and your peers are around that level. When you play the game more casually it's easy to make any class work. When you progress beyond that, the cracks of the class really show. I've posted it before in this thread: there is nothing my 18.2k GF does better than my now 9 day old 11.6k CW, other than he has 9k more hp. Crowd control, damage mitigation, DPS is superior in every way. Why do you need a GF to take a single point of damage when virtually every CW ability stuns, slows or knocks down, and several of them have unlimited targets.
If you want to keep your head in the sand and pretend the GF is ok, then that's your prerogative. Yes, you can make a GF work just fine. You can make virtually every class in every game work if you want to. Does that mean they're all just fine despite other classes being clearly superior? I would say no, and I think the active GF population is a pretty stark indication of what most people think as well.
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auzfireMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited February 2014
Indeed - the GF is the best frontline class in the game. Pity that the game has no need of a front line class.
Indeed - the GF is the best frontline class in the game. Pity that the game has no need of a front line class.
Ironic, but sadly true.
The GF is superior to other classes (even the GWF and the god-mode CW) in many respects. The HUGE issue, though is those areas are totally unneeded in endgame dungeons. Right now one of the best ways to make the GF viable would be to reduce its defense by 20% and boost its (AOE) damage by 25%....
As i see many of you didn't get the message! I too like the GF, i play it myself too, but if we only see the good side and don't point to the- sadly- many faults of it, compared to the god like rogues or CWs, then we build a wall in front of ourselves, which will always hold us back. If only more of you could see, that if we protest in many numbers, are a united front, than Cryptic will be forced to change things for good, for better.
Remember many things can be achieved if we are united! Criticism isn't always a bad thing, it can also help focus on the errors and can help change them for good!
P.S.: For those of you, who can't see further, than their nose, tell me just one T1 or T2 dungeon, which can only be done with our help? None, every dungeon can be done without us, and as a fellow player noticed above, if people do multiple runs, we are the weakest link, and it's not lack of abilities or skill, we are simply slow, we walk slow, we fight slow. If the dungeons were changed or our characters in a way, that we were crucial for success, than we would be, where i would like to see us, but to this day it isn't so!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
As i see many of you didn't get the message! I too like the GF, i play it myself too, but if we only see the good side and don't point to the- sadly- many faults of it, compared to the god like rogues or CWs, then we build a wall in front of ourselves, which will always hold us back. If only more of you could see, that if we protest in many numbers, are a united front, than Cryptic will be forced to change things for good, for better.
Remember many things can be achieved if we are united! Criticism isn't always a bad thing, it can also help focus on the errors and can help change them for good!
P.S.: For those of you, who can't see further, than their nose, tell me just one T1 or T2 dungeon, which can only be done with our help? None, every dungeon can be done without us, and as a fellow player noticed above, if people do multiple runs, we are the weakest link, and it's not lack of abilities or skill, we are simply slow, we walk slow, we fight slow. If the dungeons were changed or our characters in a way, that we were crucial for success, than we would be, where i would like to see us, but to this day it isn't so!
Hi matt,
I agree that we have sto stay united to fight against Cryptic to show the developers that they have to do something soon about the GF to make it better. In this frame, i tried to give my little contribute to everyone, sharing my build, which it seems one of the most viable options for CURRENT GFs. And, I also invited the community to stop arguing with among each other, and to open a thread to point the finger directly to the responsibles of GFs problems, Cryptic.
CRYPTIC READ THIS!!
I really hope that some Cryptic official is reading this message. We - GFs - are not asking you please now. CRYPTIC, FIX THE GF NOW! The community already gave you tons of ideas on how to do that, so just listen more to our voice and less to your pockets. If you want to continue to make money with this product, you have to give us a better protuct!
I really hope that some Cryptic official is reading this message. We - GFs - are not asking you please now. CRYPTIC, FIX THE GF NOW! The community already gave you tons of ideas on how to do that, so just listen more to our voice and less to your pockets. If you want to continue to make money with this product, you have to give us a better protuct!
I really don't think that will happen. There are already some bones being thrown at the GF class in upcoming patches. Not that this will change anything meaningfully.
DCs and GFs do not seem to fit into Guild Wars 2 model which seems the direction this game is trying to follow. There's also a limitation on how GFs could be made more useful, since boosting the class damage was proven out of question from the amount of positive feedback from players, specially some GFs, regarding the nerf to GF DPS gear last august.
To the many complaints about animation times have you tried jumping? Look. If you are in motion and jump then menace/ enoforced/ whatever the animation runs during the jump and the power goes off when you land. Takes a little practice but it works.
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chaoscourtesanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
LOL.. still loving my GF, raking in the salvage. Do I want her to be better? Sure, why not! But I'm having a blast. I hope the Dev's read this thread. There is some really good info presented along with the plentiful chaff.
Rhyon Cawdorian GWF | Opa Loka TR | Cormac Argentus III DC | Annika Thornblade GF | Aerys Skydark HR | Bartin Findlor TR | Aellia Baalthrall CW | Lucan Hawkmoon CW | Opa Brahk GWF | Korzbyrk DC | Den Kruk GWF | Jherek Skarsin CW |
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited March 2014
I play GFs and only GFs (not sufficiently skilled to play other classes). My current GS is 18.7k, but total stats over 24.5k.
FIRST, is the GF inferior to other classes of equal enchants/artifacts/boons in dps? Yes, all of them (except maybe specialized DC healer).
SECOND, is the GF inferior to other classes of equal enchants/artifacts/boons in party buffs? Yes. There is no permanent party buff given by a GF. The buffs for the GF were nerfed (Into the Fray stacking). One can layer on buffs from the GF with feats, powers, armor sets, enchant choices, but one DC or CW could replace the GF in these buffs or not need them if the GF were replaced with another DC or CW.
THIRD, is the GF inferior to other classes of equal enchants/artifacts/boons in damage mitigation? No. The GF can be set up to receive massive amounts of damage for party members, if not aggro, but the sacrifice is the ability to do any real damage, and still be able to self-heal sufficiently to stay alive. In parties, is this ability necessary? As one who waits for announcements of GF needed, only a few T2 dungeons come up (FH, maybe SP and DV), as stated in this thread earlier. The GF contribution is railroading mobs (kiting). Because the damage mitigation of the class is superceded by the DCs heals or by the ability to regen/lifesteal of other classes with much more DPS. I usually need to PUG dungeons. And, the damage mitigation is not sufficient for GFs to solo in most cases or be used without CW or DC support.
FOURTH, is the GF inferior to other classes in animation time/movement? Yes. GWFs are faster with sprint. The blocking feature, if used continuously, frequently puts the GF out of position to receive combat advantage. Animation times seem much slower (compare the At-Wills of the other classes to the simple Cleave of the GF). Casting times are longer for powers (multi-stepped in some cases). And unless one sacrifices feats to boost the encounter time by 10% (5 paragon feat points) or AP gain when blocking (heroic feat points, tier 1) by giving up damage mitigation, or recovery is slotted (reducing armor pen, power, or anything else), the GF will need to be content with about 18-22% recovery and 28-35% AP. In any case, the GF is out-performed by other classes.
The GF class is klunky, buggy, slow, and weaker in general damage output than other classes. So why do I love it so much? It fits my style of play.
SUGGESTIONS:
1. Could the GF be modified to make it more DPS oriented? Sure. Simple way is to increase the weapon damage. Currently, the top weapon for a GF does 671 damage. Power ratings (if Timeless Set is used) can go above 10k. But, 10k power = 400 additional damage on the weapon (uinbuffed). So, a GF with 10k power and the top weapon will equal the damage of a great weapon for the other classes (1071) with no power added. Maybe, the GF could have the top tier 2 weapons have 150-200 more damage. Hmmm. Easy enough to do.
2. Could the GF be modified to make it more tanky? Absolutely. At maximum values, there really is no choice in the GF currently. Defense ratings become flattened around 50% with 4800-5000 points. Critical Strike flattens around 20% or 1600-1800 points. Armor Penetration flattens around 2600 points, but in PvE is not really needed above the 26% or about 1600-1800 points. Regeneration and Life Steal flatten around 2000 points each or about 12%. Recovery flattens around 2000 points or 20%. Deflection flattens around 2800 points or 30%. Flattening means there is a diminishing return for points put in that stat rather than another. Only power and hitpoints have no real cap. Of these two, the regen-hit point combination makes the GF quite tanky currently. But what changes could be made to make it more tanky? Suggestion, raise the flattening specs for the defensive stats (regen, life steal, deflection, and defense). Simple formula change!
3. Give the GF better party buffs. Make them longer. Make them permanent to a party. Here is an idea. Give the GF a party buff similiar to Knight Captain armor as a class feature choice, but somewhat nerfed, but for party members only (doesn't boost GF output). Or why not make it the end of a Paragon Path...Party Buff... Would parties take a GF like this? I think so.
4. Give the GF more Debuffs. Seriously. This is a huge weakness of the GF. Or give the GF unique debuffs in powers, feats... Slowing a single opponent, stunning, and lowering DR are not unique. I don't know of a game that I have played where the tank class had less debuffs. The old saying 'death by debuff' cannot apply to the GF as is.
If a GF spec's for full defense and knows how to actually use their marks and hold aggro they will always be a value added member in any group I run.
However, since most GF seem incapable of even using marks and have some of the most timid players I've ever seen in a tanking class I stick to my story that there are 4 decent GF in all of Neverwinter. The fact most GF wait for a singularity to even think about closing to melee range is...confusing...until I notice that they are geared for DPS and are still 4th in Paingiver while providing no aggro control.
Kudos, GF like the one's I describe will be permakicked from clearing content. You would think that would teach them that they are doing it wrong, but no. They continue to be some of the most clueless players in Neverwinter, and by far GF has the largest percentage of fools even while being incredibly rare. This, sadly, makes it difficult for the few decent and fewer excellent GF out there to find groups. 16k? 17k? Even 20k. No one wants a GF because no one know's if the GF has brain damage and thought a shield could pump DPS.
At the end of the day, the best soft control class in the entire game is the GF. Sadly, most control minded players were trolled into playing CW by Cryptic only to discover that they were really DPS.
If it was called the Control Fighter you can bet your CN gear more people would bother with it.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Comments
i dont want to get everybody's hopes up but i think thats what there currently working on on the shard wich would be sweet!!!!!
second, all this gwf vs gf you need to remember that gwf needed a significant amount of love because they where in our shoes for 8 months. with all this said im sure theres a bright future for the gf coming up soon
Maybe I haven't yet nailed the feats?
http://nwcalc.com/gf?b=np9:27re80:20dqkg,13j350n:100000:15u000:1uz501&h=1&p=ivn
That is what I am currently testing.
I am the user who opened this thread for those who see me writing for the first time. First, I would like to tell all of you "thank you" for your numerous replies you gave me, and the posts you wrote in response to other users' posts. This means that the game community is well alive and strong, although we might have different opinion about classes, game styles, and so on..
I read all your comments, and I decided to post a message again to directly reply to some of you, and to give you more detailed information about my GF, and about my play style. Soon, i promise, I will post a full Valindra run with my guild mates. Please, we already went through the discussion about the utility of tanks in dungeon parties, therefore do not continue to read here if you have just to make "destructive comments" (I am making direct reference to some CW who wrote in this thread). Because I really love my GF, and I believe that this class really needs to be re-evaluated, I decided to share my build with you.
Let's start with direct replies.
I personally want to THANK Caexar, Pinot, and those who sent me in game messages, telling me that finally someone decided to stand in favor of the GF class, instead of writing threads like "Let's ban the GF class"/"GF useless"/"GF dead weight in party dungeon" and so on..
Second, thank you to the user who posted the iron maiden build on the web. I liked it, it is tough.
Then, I would like to reply to SEAN999 who wrote a post commenting my words when i say "I do not share my build with you". Sean, if this is your name, I used these words only to reply to some other user who said that I have no credibility, so I should have posted my build. In light of this explanation, I invite you to write something more fruitful in this thread instead of commenting my words to other players.
Lastly, I assisted to verbal fights, a declining quality in the use of terminology, and weakening arguments. My fellows, stop fighting each other while using inappropriate language, this is a battle among the poor! What I mean is that we are all players of the same game, so we really should be more tolerant between each others, even when we have different game-views, and we really should try to be each others' wing men. If you have to argue against someone, open your thread and write a message to Cryptic to tell them to give us a more balanced, fairer game for everyone! ...Did you do this already? Possibly, but I guess it was not enough, because we still have lot of game play problems.
Now, Let me share with you my build. I have to thank DKCandy for the basic version that I modified myself for the best outcome in relation with my aggressive play style.
Armor Set: Knights Captain FULL (Buff all the team)
Weapon: Sword of the Fallen Dragon
Shield: Shield of the Fallen Dragon
Neck: Ancient Excorcist's necklace of Blessing
Rings: Ancient Berserker’s Ring of Cleaving x2
Belt: Blue Belt RECOVERY 243; POWER 133 (cannot remember the name)
Shirt: Gemmed Exquisite Shirt
Pants: Gemmed Exquisite Pants
Utility Slots: This is up to what you prefer
Defensive Slots: Radiant Enchantments: Rank 7 770: Health Each (my ones need to be upgraded)
Offensive Slots: Radiant Enchantments: Rank 8 220: Power Each
Armor Enchantment: lesser soulforged (I just need it if I ever fall)
Weapon Enchantment: Perfect Vorpal (Crit damage rocks!)
Ioun Stone of Allure (Level 30):
Offensive Slot 1: Profane Runestone, Rank 8: 220 CRT
Offensive Slot 2: Profane Runestone, Rank 8: 220 CRT
Defensive Slot 3: Eldritch Runestone, Rank 8: 9% Pet Stats
Ring: Pyrotechnic band /w Radiant Enchantment Rank 8: 220 Power
Neck: Ancient Excorcist's necklace of Blessing /w Radiant Enchantment Rank 8: 220 Power
Icon: Greater Icon of Retribution /w Radiant Enchantment Rank 8: 220 Power
Sharandar Boons: you should find the best outcome for your play-style, but I chose for
Boon 1 - Power
Boon 2 - Critical strike
Boon 3 - 2% AP
Boon 4 - 400 HP healed
Boon 5 - 10% recovery guard during combat
Dread ring boons: same as before, but I chose for
Boon 1 - 125 Power and Movement
Boon 2 - 250 lifesteal
boon 3 - 250 Ar. Pen.
Boon 4 - Chance to heal 1000 HP
Boon 5 - Rampaging madness (600 Power; 300 Lifesteal; 300 Regen)
Artifacts: (at current level)
Valindra's Crown - 74
Lantern of revelation - 94
Book of the Thayan Dead - 61
Pets: (at current level)
Ioun - purple
Frozen Mimic - green + 100 defense
Con Artist - green + 100 critical strike
Gwf woman (buy it for 2 gold) - green + 100 power
Fawn of Shialla - green + 100 recovery
Character Stats with Pet Buff:
Hit Points: 30100+
Power: 10400 ca
Critical Strike: 2150 (23% almost)
Armor Pen: 2020 (20% + 4 from Dex for 24%, and there is no fire augmentation with this result)
Recovery: 2001 (16%+)
Defense: 3989 (45.7%)
Deflect: 626 (7.5%)
Regeneration: 699 (5.8%)
Life Steal: 1485 (10.8%)
Daily: Terrifying Impact and Fighter’s Recovery
Passives: Combat Superiority and Trample the Fallen
Encounters: Front line Surge, Lunging Strike and Enforced Threat
At will: Cleave, Threatening Rush
Feats:
http://nwcalc.com/gf?b=p8v:27rhds:202i0w,19j356i:1pu551:100000:1u5000&h=0&p=ivn
Other Comments:
Average damages in a guild party made of 2CW, 1DC, 1GWF using...
Cleave, 2k - 3k each swing and each enemy (Critical damage 3k - 6k) / amazing when you get 2-3 crits consecutively = 15K - 20K
Lunging strike, 12 - 16K every 6 seconds (Critical damage 22k - 28k)
Enforced Threat, 4K - 5K each enemy (x5) - (Critical Damage 7K-11K, usually crit applies to max 3-4 enemies)
Frontline Surge, 8K - 14K each enemy (x3) - (Critical Damage 15K-30K, hardly predictable damage)
Terrifying Impact, 10K - 15K each enemy (x5) - (Critical Damage 20K - 30K, it often crit, and it always apply to x5 enemies)
Thank you again DKCandy. I hope to meet you someday and to have your opinion about how I continued what you started.
I will be posting soon a video. Thank you again everyone
As far as I'm aware, pet power doesn't benefit from reckless, so if I were you (and you seem pretty keen to stack power) I'd try and shift as many non-power stats from you to the stone.
Also, vorpal? GFs are the class that benefit the absolute least from crit (we don't even have any ability scores that give it), so if you've got the money for perfect X, perfect almost anything else would probably be a better choice (for both you and your team). Lighting for lol threatz, terror or plaguefire to help spread the debuff love, etc.
Finally, terrifying impact? I've actually not used this since level "low whatevers", but as I recall it was more or less a souped up FLS? Is it really that good? Seems kinda a waste of a daily, really: we're not designed to do damage (though 15k per hit is impressive), so I've always rocked with SoS, since one thing I can definitely ensure is "getting hit by everyone".
Also, regen seems low. With that many HP, I'd stack regen like crazy. Also, deflect could stand to go up, maybe?
Anyway, thanks for sharing!
1) Why you have 3 points in combat superiority? Unless I am mistaken you only need one point if you have 5/5 in Tactical Superiority. Stick the spare 2 on Supremecy of Steel. I have just started using this and it is awesome in Dunegons when taking lots of damage. Plus its good for annoying perma stealth rogues in pvp.
2) If you are stacking lifesteal should you not have taken Endless Consumption boon instead of madness? I don't use lifesteal on my GF but people have said we don't do neough damage quick enough for it to be as useful as regen (haven't tested this tho)
Also with your feats I assume you took like 1 point in Take Measure and Grit to benefit from Wraitful Warrior? Not sure if the temp points last long enough with just 1 to be of any use for that though.
Also I would agree morsitans P vorpal seems a bit wasted unless you have full timeless and use that when you dont need to buff the group.
I like your build and philosophy it mirrors mine i hate fighting them but i felt i had to. I'm going to stop doing this and let them think what they want.
if they wanna be ignorant let them be.
I have read many of your complains and want to ad my thoughts. Forget my language skills, it's not my native language and also forget me, if i write about something, that has been already discussed, i want to write my hurt feelings out.
To the point, as i stated in the title, i think GFs will be dead or a rarety in Neverwinter's world. Why?
We all know, that how much we try to defend our hurt feelings and beloved character from people, who bash on us, because they don't know game mechanics and never ever played D&D actually before, be it in a game or the real life paper&pen or tabletop version, the sad part is, we are a broken class. Broken into many pieces, so many, hat i can't even count into how many pieces.
We can try to experiment as long as we want with different kind of builds, it will still be broken, we just pay with AD or Zen and things still won't be near excaptable. Let me get this straight.
First of all, let me say i play D&D since nearly 20 years, so i might say i'm a bit of an expert in this field. I don't want to bash on any class, it will be only an example!
In the real life game nobody or rarely anybody wants to play a rogue, because they are weak by themselves. If we start a new campaign the DM always must pursuade someone to play it, whereas here it's a hell of over powered. I won't go into further details, i don't want to hurt the feelings of fellow players. Fighter classes are so much liked to play, that we sometimes have to limit the, 'cause we would have a team of clones. Here we Gfs, as one melee class are the bottom, we are simply bad in every aspect.
We can't hit, we have low power or if we spec our characters to have more power, it will still lack the capabilities of other fighters and as written above, hybrid methods aren't good, you must be either good for pvp and have more power or if you prefer dungeon runs, then you must give some points to defense too. An in-between character isn't good for anything. And to be honest, we are simply running behind in pvp, except if we get a very good group our we go there with guildies, but again nobody gives a hack about supporting role, except us.
We can't aggro as good or better than any other class.
We can't pull every add on the field, and that's one of the reasons why the most gamers bash on us. Most fellow players only see power, power...and don't give a **** about immovable object stat.
The power and feet tabs are completely useless, why are there options to choose from? If you don't choose the conqueror tree, you will be good, but compared to other GFs, you will be a big null.
The GS system is also completely broken for this class, i could go into details, but don't really have the lust for it. Just to say, i've deleted my first Gf, because everything i did, even purchased him many stuff, he was still staying on around 9k for almost 3 months, having complited nearly all Sharandar and Dead ring, and having had t2 gear and enchantments.
And here i come to my conclusion, it makes me sometimes very mad, on other days i would like to hide away from the others. Despite how many letters w write to Cryptic, to Wizards, to PWE, everybody ..... on our head.
I know this isn't a charity organization, but as a player, who as many of you has even contributed real money to the game i find it a disgusting company policy not even answer to so many complains, but i'm really mad at Wizards, they are the parent company for D&D, they should make an effort, and really fast know!
So yes, i think like you guys to, that there are many fellow players, who don't see the importance of a GF, but i hear it many times, that this dungeon can be done without us, and we are only the weakest link. This isn't absolutely true, but has some point, we can't disagree totally. Of course i know to, that many peeps, who lack the skills, like bad healers or CWs, try to disguise ther own lack of ability with this kinda talk, that we are a broken class, but if Cryptic would fix us, than we wouldn't have to hear to these people.
Im at the point, that i love the game, but sometimes i don't go for DD runs, just to relax a bit.
Cheers!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
As far as I'm concerned the class is viable AND useful. And my Guild thinks so as well.
I've been able to perform a true tanking role (yes I do have to kite in some fights; but I also get to boss tank as well)...
Why do I tank? because my Guild mates have both the skill and the knowledge to take advantage of a nearly unkillable aggro generator.
We're now doing full clears of tier 2 with little to no trouble.
And this with balanced groups (RARELY taking 2 of the same class).
Anyone who chimes in with a statement of "This or That class is useless" comments is not only being foolish; they are also demonstrating a complete lack of ability.
'Nuff said.
Thank you for your early reply Morsitas, I got some nice pieces of data for you today.
I already made some tests on my GF with the help of some of my guildmates too, and it came out that:
1. The PET GWF (the girl who you can buy for 2 golds) actually benefits from reckless feat, so if you bring her to LV30, you get a total of 600 points in Power. Very cool, right? Furthermore, you indicate that I should move my non-power stats from my PG to my pet. Do you refer to enchantments only, ot to some pieces of gear as well? You see, I got only Radiant enchantments on both my PG and my Ioun stone.
2. I tried the Greater Plaguefire, I liked it due to the fact that it debuffs enemies' defence, but the total outcome of damages that I could make was lower than when I use the P.Vorpal. I would like to give a try to terror and lighting in the future, though. Thanks for the reccomandation, I will keep them in mind for future upgrades.
3. I see your point about terrifying Impact. In fact, up until a few weeks ago, I prefered to use Villain Menace to ge some damage boost. Then, I met a new GF DPS who joined my guild, his name is "Beiro Wolfsbane" (Dark Illusion), and he told me to try this dayly in particular game circumstances, that is: when a CW uses Singularity, bring your GF close to it and use enforced threat to suck as many enemies as you can into the Singularity. When the enemies are in the air, get ready to use terrifying impact, and when enemies are almost on the ground, lunch the daily. In that moment enemies are still controlled, but the effect of Singularity is over, so you can get the best damage output. In these cases I also saw some 35-40K Critical Damage x5 enemies. Now, the question is, can Villain Menace do better that this? I am still testing myself.
Finally, you noticed that my regen is law as well as my defection. It might sounds cracy for you, but i got an idea for my build. I based it on Power and Lifesteal. As you know, the more power you have, the higher is your damage, right? Lifesteal "recover" my HP points according to a X % based on damage. In my case, I have more than 10% "recovery" of HP based on my damage output. Now, imagine I can make an average of 70K damage every power rotation I use - Front line surge (every 15 seconds), Enforced threat (12 seconds), lunging strike 6 seconds). This means, that I get cured 8-10K every 12-15 seconds. I think it is hard to explain using words, maybe I will show you in a video, ok?
Thank you for your attention, and patience, I hope to receive some constructive counter arguments to my thoughts soon from you soon! By the way, you have been constructing up until now
Very nice thoughts Evalira! I did not think about combat superiority in that way. You got me man! XD Actually, I was thinking about endless consumption, too. I will try it very soon, and update you, ok? Last point, I am not fully convinced either about temporary HP, because they do not last long, so I actually wanted to increase the Action Points generation (Action surge) to 3/5. What do you think?
Your english is very good mate, so that you could explain better than I could do what is the current situation of the GF class in NWN. This class is surely not the top damage class, and we already have argued that all the other classes can do things better than we do. However, if the GF does not get fixed, and we have to play a broken class, then we have to temporarily somehow bypass the limitations that developers have imposed on our class. I found a way to enjoy my GF creating a DPS tank who has to be played with an aggressive style, so it can also be helpful in dungeon. My guildmates really like my build, and i mean not only other GFs, but I received compliments from all the other classes as well. My guild leader is an extremely powerful CW (CERBERA - I never saw another mage beating him in DPS) and he likes to play with me because I can remove aggro from him to help him cast full encounter rotations. The basic principle of this build is to make High DPS (for a GF) to collect aggro.
I hope that the Developers are going to improve the GF soon, as you mention in your message! But, please, do not lose your hope, and keep writing about your very nice thoughts!
I was wondering myself about the power from the companion and if it worked with reckless attacker so that's a great find. 600 power for 1.2m AD upgrade and 2g is alot cheaper than a rank 10.
Hi wavecannon,
I am glad to see that there are many other players like me who still consider the GF a viable and useful class
My guildmates think I am a useful GF, too. Although we have different builds, this fact reinforces my, your, our (of the GFs) worldview, that the GF is the "best frontline class"; the GF jumps first on enemies, collets aggro, and it allows other classes to give the final blow to the enemies. Nice, to have met you! Keep up with good comments!
I have to reflect more about action surge then. Indeed, blocking is important in my build, but only to get AP. We both know that the block breaks soon, so I actually block only when it is strictly necessary. For instance, I block when I am inside multiple AoEs so to get quite a good amount of AP, but i do not block when I fight agaist bosses who weakly punch you. In this last case, I prefer to attack, make damage and have faith in my lifesteal statistic.
Very nice the discovery of the companion, I know XD thank you for your approve!
Iron Warrior: While under the effect of Iron Warrior, players will now generate 150% more threat.
Bull Charge: Lunge distance has been increased from 18’ to 28’.
Frontline Surge: Cooldown has been reduced from 20 to 19 seconds. Target cap has been increased from 3 to 5. Damage has been reduced by 25%. Prone duration has been reduced against players. The ground splat has been increased to better represent effect area.
Feat Reinforced Surge: Now increases damage by 1/2/3/4/5%. Additional prone duration has been reduced to .1/.2/.3/.4/.5 seconds.
this doesn't look like a buff to me.
You said yourself that you've intentionally stagnated your gear to artificially make the game more difficult, which means you're not joining upper end groups and experiencing what better geared GF's are. I would say that makes you the ignorant one. And I don't mean that offensively. I mean it by definition of the word; you just don't know.
A common theme I see here are the people just breaking into T2 and finishing the dungeons view the class as ok overall. And it is when you and your peers are around that level. When you play the game more casually it's easy to make any class work. When you progress beyond that, the cracks of the class really show. I've posted it before in this thread: there is nothing my 18.2k GF does better than my now 9 day old 11.6k CW, other than he has 9k more hp. Crowd control, damage mitigation, DPS is superior in every way. Why do you need a GF to take a single point of damage when virtually every CW ability stuns, slows or knocks down, and several of them have unlimited targets.
If you want to keep your head in the sand and pretend the GF is ok, then that's your prerogative. Yes, you can make a GF work just fine. You can make virtually every class in every game work if you want to. Does that mean they're all just fine despite other classes being clearly superior? I would say no, and I think the active GF population is a pretty stark indication of what most people think as well.
Ironic, but sadly true.
The GF is superior to other classes (even the GWF and the god-mode CW) in many respects. The HUGE issue, though is those areas are totally unneeded in endgame dungeons. Right now one of the best ways to make the GF viable would be to reduce its defense by 20% and boost its (AOE) damage by 25%....
As i see many of you didn't get the message! I too like the GF, i play it myself too, but if we only see the good side and don't point to the- sadly- many faults of it, compared to the god like rogues or CWs, then we build a wall in front of ourselves, which will always hold us back. If only more of you could see, that if we protest in many numbers, are a united front, than Cryptic will be forced to change things for good, for better.
Remember many things can be achieved if we are united! Criticism isn't always a bad thing, it can also help focus on the errors and can help change them for good!
P.S.: For those of you, who can't see further, than their nose, tell me just one T1 or T2 dungeon, which can only be done with our help? None, every dungeon can be done without us, and as a fellow player noticed above, if people do multiple runs, we are the weakest link, and it's not lack of abilities or skill, we are simply slow, we walk slow, we fight slow. If the dungeons were changed or our characters in a way, that we were crucial for success, than we would be, where i would like to see us, but to this day it isn't so!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Please, stay away from this thread if you just have to show us your ignorance.
Hi matt,
I agree that we have sto stay united to fight against Cryptic to show the developers that they have to do something soon about the GF to make it better. In this frame, i tried to give my little contribute to everyone, sharing my build, which it seems one of the most viable options for CURRENT GFs. And, I also invited the community to stop arguing with among each other, and to open a thread to point the finger directly to the responsibles of GFs problems, Cryptic.
CRYPTIC READ THIS!!
I really hope that some Cryptic official is reading this message. We - GFs - are not asking you please now. CRYPTIC, FIX THE GF NOW! The community already gave you tons of ideas on how to do that, so just listen more to our voice and less to your pockets. If you want to continue to make money with this product, you have to give us a better protuct!
I really don't think that will happen. There are already some bones being thrown at the GF class in upcoming patches. Not that this will change anything meaningfully.
DCs and GFs do not seem to fit into Guild Wars 2 model which seems the direction this game is trying to follow. There's also a limitation on how GFs could be made more useful, since boosting the class damage was proven out of question from the amount of positive feedback from players, specially some GFs, regarding the nerf to GF DPS gear last august.
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
FIRST, is the GF inferior to other classes of equal enchants/artifacts/boons in dps? Yes, all of them (except maybe specialized DC healer).
SECOND, is the GF inferior to other classes of equal enchants/artifacts/boons in party buffs? Yes. There is no permanent party buff given by a GF. The buffs for the GF were nerfed (Into the Fray stacking). One can layer on buffs from the GF with feats, powers, armor sets, enchant choices, but one DC or CW could replace the GF in these buffs or not need them if the GF were replaced with another DC or CW.
THIRD, is the GF inferior to other classes of equal enchants/artifacts/boons in damage mitigation? No. The GF can be set up to receive massive amounts of damage for party members, if not aggro, but the sacrifice is the ability to do any real damage, and still be able to self-heal sufficiently to stay alive. In parties, is this ability necessary? As one who waits for announcements of GF needed, only a few T2 dungeons come up (FH, maybe SP and DV), as stated in this thread earlier. The GF contribution is railroading mobs (kiting). Because the damage mitigation of the class is superceded by the DCs heals or by the ability to regen/lifesteal of other classes with much more DPS. I usually need to PUG dungeons. And, the damage mitigation is not sufficient for GFs to solo in most cases or be used without CW or DC support.
FOURTH, is the GF inferior to other classes in animation time/movement? Yes. GWFs are faster with sprint. The blocking feature, if used continuously, frequently puts the GF out of position to receive combat advantage. Animation times seem much slower (compare the At-Wills of the other classes to the simple Cleave of the GF). Casting times are longer for powers (multi-stepped in some cases). And unless one sacrifices feats to boost the encounter time by 10% (5 paragon feat points) or AP gain when blocking (heroic feat points, tier 1) by giving up damage mitigation, or recovery is slotted (reducing armor pen, power, or anything else), the GF will need to be content with about 18-22% recovery and 28-35% AP. In any case, the GF is out-performed by other classes.
The GF class is klunky, buggy, slow, and weaker in general damage output than other classes. So why do I love it so much? It fits my style of play.
SUGGESTIONS:
1. Could the GF be modified to make it more DPS oriented? Sure. Simple way is to increase the weapon damage. Currently, the top weapon for a GF does 671 damage. Power ratings (if Timeless Set is used) can go above 10k. But, 10k power = 400 additional damage on the weapon (uinbuffed). So, a GF with 10k power and the top weapon will equal the damage of a great weapon for the other classes (1071) with no power added. Maybe, the GF could have the top tier 2 weapons have 150-200 more damage. Hmmm. Easy enough to do.
2. Could the GF be modified to make it more tanky? Absolutely. At maximum values, there really is no choice in the GF currently. Defense ratings become flattened around 50% with 4800-5000 points. Critical Strike flattens around 20% or 1600-1800 points. Armor Penetration flattens around 2600 points, but in PvE is not really needed above the 26% or about 1600-1800 points. Regeneration and Life Steal flatten around 2000 points each or about 12%. Recovery flattens around 2000 points or 20%. Deflection flattens around 2800 points or 30%. Flattening means there is a diminishing return for points put in that stat rather than another. Only power and hitpoints have no real cap. Of these two, the regen-hit point combination makes the GF quite tanky currently. But what changes could be made to make it more tanky? Suggestion, raise the flattening specs for the defensive stats (regen, life steal, deflection, and defense). Simple formula change!
3. Give the GF better party buffs. Make them longer. Make them permanent to a party. Here is an idea. Give the GF a party buff similiar to Knight Captain armor as a class feature choice, but somewhat nerfed, but for party members only (doesn't boost GF output). Or why not make it the end of a Paragon Path...Party Buff... Would parties take a GF like this? I think so.
4. Give the GF more Debuffs. Seriously. This is a huge weakness of the GF. Or give the GF unique debuffs in powers, feats... Slowing a single opponent, stunning, and lowering DR are not unique. I don't know of a game that I have played where the tank class had less debuffs. The old saying 'death by debuff' cannot apply to the GF as is.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
However, since most GF seem incapable of even using marks and have some of the most timid players I've ever seen in a tanking class I stick to my story that there are 4 decent GF in all of Neverwinter. The fact most GF wait for a singularity to even think about closing to melee range is...confusing...until I notice that they are geared for DPS and are still 4th in Paingiver while providing no aggro control.
Kudos, GF like the one's I describe will be permakicked from clearing content. You would think that would teach them that they are doing it wrong, but no. They continue to be some of the most clueless players in Neverwinter, and by far GF has the largest percentage of fools even while being incredibly rare. This, sadly, makes it difficult for the few decent and fewer excellent GF out there to find groups. 16k? 17k? Even 20k. No one wants a GF because no one know's if the GF has brain damage and thought a shield could pump DPS.
At the end of the day, the best soft control class in the entire game is the GF. Sadly, most control minded players were trolled into playing CW by Cryptic only to discover that they were really DPS.
If it was called the Control Fighter you can bet your CN gear more people would bother with it.