and the reason for that is because over geared all the dungeons are easy they need a higher one for elites that have more DR for tank to be needed end game to you is mid game for an elite the devs just haven't gotten to that point.
jeez. i dont care anymore have fun making others feel like nothing.
ravenan I don't know why you have to take cheap shots at me by saying things like "You supposed to be experienced...learn to play properly".
Prior to the Stalwark/tenebrous nerfing it was quite common to see GF's top of the paingiver, I know because I used to be there. Unfortunately I only had 2 weeks of play with that setup before it was nerfed. So don't say GF is not about DPS - it was once viable so why shouldn't we have that option now? If it makes me a crappy GF for being unhappy that I can no longer do something I used to be able to do then yeah I'm HAMSTER, but I don't want to be a buffbot, I would have rolled DC if that's what I wanted.
My original argument (and that of many others) still stands. There is no point taking a GF into a dungeon. Sure it can contribute and the group can succeed, but other setups work better if you want to do the job quickly, and many people know that and as a result it is hard to get in a Dungeon with a good group. If this statement is not true, why is GF's equipment dirt cheap on the AH? Because so few are playing the class because it is currently redundant or unliked. Or are you saying they all couldn't play properly so they quit? And that anyone who is unhappy with their GF is inexperienced?
We are currently a 4th rate DPS class and a 2nd/3rd rate buff class. Yeah we can get/hold aggro, but as a CW has pointed out in this thread it's not needed when they can just melt eveything.
I DON'T RUN WITH A GUILD so don't have the luxury of my guild mates understanding how my class can contribute in other ways other than kiting. The two guilds I was in never invited me to any DD runs other than FH, or they tried to stick me in with the newbs because yeh a good GF can help a poor group succeed, and the experienced players didn't want slowing down.
Did your super buffboat GF do any good in Monsters on Ice? Perhaps the winter festival event didn't interest you because you can farm CN/MC/VT with your guildies. But I don't have that option so have to farm other things, and as a result can't afford to buy every set for every situation - doesn't mean I'm inexperienced.
damanhur89 thanks for your more pleasant response. I wouldn't say I was melodramatic (maybe over generalising or something) but my experience of Neverwinter has not been that great. I don't like being rudely criticised in dungeons when it is not my fault, and with and all the vote kicking/hijacking that goes on, and the difficulty in finding a good group I find it hard to be possitive about my GF any any group situation. Again this is a PUG experience so maybe if I find a good guild it might change (but i don't want to use teamspeak). I understand CW's don't have to push to be good, but these CW's didn't do anything other than Magic Missle. I gathered up all the adds and was just left to deal with them.
Sadly the most fun I have had in this game was farming the blacklake skirmish with my alt. I met some nice people in there about 6 months ago, now its just full of people lighting barrels!!!
Well, you didnt know how to do solo content fast with gf (knights chalange always on bar) so maybe ur not so experienced as you like to think?
I didnt bought any of my stets i got them when i was gathering experience in dungeons...
Read all my posts i dont like to repeat myself. And yes, good gf can drag every **** party through fh,pf,karru. I did it milions of times. And yes, elitist wont take you to party but i hate this kind of thinking and i stay away from them. Its good that im leader type of person not crybaby thats all.
Sharing my build with anyone is surly something I am not willing to do, it took me 6 months to make it the way I like it. Said that, you can lock my thread if you can.
This is fantastic, it has to be a troll. Great stuff
Well, you didnt know how to do solo content fast with gf (knights chalange always on bar) so maybe ur not so experienced as you like to think?
I never said I didn't use knights challenge I said my 10k TR can do it quicker and used PF as an example. To me if a 10K TR can do things quicker than a 19k GF then something is wrong.
I do use KC but NO and NEVER would I have it on the bar all the time. I slot it when facing a tougher mob member. For easy mobs or where there are lots of adds I would avoid it.
3 Trolls in Sharandar. FS > ET = Dead
2 powrie's/2 witherers. FS > ET = one left > LS = Dead
These are typical mob compilations in Sharandar. I don't see how using KC could be any quicker unless you have your daily up, but that is not going to be up at every mob encounter.
And I would call you rude and arrogant not a leader. Twice you have tried to belittle me and put me down when all I did was present valid reasons why I feel the class is subpar and I'm obvoiusly not alone. If you disagree then you should just present your argument without trying to put me down that is not what a good leader does. People like you are the reasons I avoid guilds and doing dungeons.
Use KC on mobs with 3 or higher bars of life. If not u know how long it takes to put them down. 1 bar mobs are just 3 cleaves. If u try it u will notice that things go faster. (fell trolls, armored trolls,trolls, thorns, giantsouls, cyclops,witches, fomorians u forgot about them)
And maaan ur so touchy.
I wont discuss only downside as u like it. You dont see it but its bringing current status of gf even more down. Pll come here, cry how they are bad at things, other comes read all this bullsh... and say i dont take x becouse its useless i red it on forum...
I see tanks different than most of the community. In any way we should do dps, if you want that go with gwf. The biggest problem of tanks is the instance composition. It should have more uncontrolable mobs so the real tanks had there job. I see threat job and agro things as art. Its hard but doable, its fullfilling. I found the way and im ready for higher difficulity content.
I wont discuss about am i rude or not. Your skin is not tick enough to see my bad side. I take fresh 60s and show them the world, help them to gear up and make them understand that "rainbow teams are the most fun, exploiting is just disgracefull and that we dont have to make 3-5 dungs every DD, we have time tommorow let me show you aditional boss in this instance, cool, eh?" Thats leadership. Spending time with the others not yours "I stand alone!... but i dont have any group and no one whants me ". Think a bit about that.
Use KC on mobs with 3 or higher bars of life. If not u know how long it takes to put them down. 1 bar mobs are just 3 cleaves. If u try it u will notice that things go faster. (fell trolls, armored trolls,trolls, thorns, giantsouls, cyclops,witches, fomorians u forgot about them)
And maaan ur so touchy.
I wont discuss only downside as u like it. You dont see it but its bringing current status of gf even more down. Pll come here, cry how they are bad at things, other comes read all this bullsh... and say i dont take x becouse its useless i red it on forum...
I see tanks different than most of the community. In any way we should do dps, if you want that go with gwf. The biggest problem of tanks is the instance composition. It should have more uncontrolable mobs so the real tanks had there job. I see threat job and agro things as art. Its hard but doable, its fullfilling. I found the way and im ready for higher difficulity content.
I wont discuss about am i rude or not. Your skin is not tick enough to see my bad side. I take fresh 60s and show them the world, help them to gear up and make them understand that "rainbow teams are the most fun, exploiting is just disgracefull and that we dont have to make 3-5 dungs every DD, we have time tommorow let me show you aditional boss in this instance, cool, eh?" Thats leadership. Spending time with the others not yours "I stand alone!... but i dont have any group and no one whants me ". Think a bit about that.
Yes I am touchy. But you have no right to criticise me when you have never seen me in action. I (unlike you) have never claimed to be a super adored by all GF, I just said I consider myself to be experienced based on my 7 months of playing GF as my main, as opposed to someone who posts their GF is rubbish after just 2 weeks of play.
I understand your dislike of people complaining about GF's, because since i started reading the forums it has made me feel worse about the class than i did before.
Even your last post I can see you are dying to take jibs at me and it just wreaks of immaturity. You sound like you think you are the best GF in Neverwinter yet have done nothing other than brag to proove otherwise. At least the OP asked people to pm him and said people could invite him to see him in action and look at his class! Where's your offer?
Do you look at the LFG channel? I never see ppl asking for GF's for CN or VT, just FH, ocassionally SP/Karru/MC. My ability as a GF is unknown to anyone. I would have assumed being 19k people would actually want me but that's not the case, which is what i am such a cry baby about (as you put it). It has no reflection on my ability to play the class or not.
Yes I should look for a good guild, but quite frankly I am just waiting to see what the future holds for the GF now and just doing daily stuff to get more AD's so if ever it becomes a desirabe class again I will be good to go.
PM ME IF YOU WISH TO CONTINUE THIS in a mature fashion rather than troll/flame this thread.
A true gamer can adapt to any MMO rapidly and one that dives right into the game and spends every night playing can determine weaknesses pretty fast. One doesn't need years of playing a class to determine how it plays in today's game!
GF are weakest melee, not needed for player progression, lack the solo prowess that other classes can easily obtain, and are completely left behind behind the subsidiary class the GWF which was buffed way to much and can do waht a GF can but better and do 200% more dps doing it!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
im just gonna mention again that the mobs are easy enough because they havent grown the same speed and rate the heros have at 15K+ gs the DR of mobs has been pretty much the same since game was in beta.
the GF isnt weak its the mobs that are. GF is adept at decreasing damage for party and to itself and its attacks are all debuff and spike damage its a tank not dps thats why comparing them to a dps is pointless they just dont work that way.
at 2000+ GS over dungeon the enemies are all weaker thusly the GF is not needed especially when speed running.
its why i stay at 12k gs because it still makes it challenging and fun if i really wanted to i could upgrade my characters to 19k but theres no point to it but to run a dungeon as fast as possible to get the loot at the same speed.
its the reason why it feels so lackluster end game because at current end game; it really doesnt matter what you take, you will likely win.
we just have to wait for the higher dungeons to be made and will take quite a while every few months these changes will come like they always do.
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dissssppppMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
the GF isnt weak its the mobs that are. GF is adept at decreasing damage for party and to itself and its attacks are all debuff and spike damage its a tank not dps thats why comparing them to a dps is pointless they just dont work that way.
A CW is superior at decreasing damage to the party, mob control, and DPS. So if a CW does all of the roles a GF is designed to do and does a superior job, then what role do GF's truly have? I can't think of a single enemy in the game other than a boss that needs to be "tanked", and even then I don't know of any that can't be tanked just fine by a rogue, GWF.
its why i stay at 12k gs because it still makes it challenging and fun if i really wanted to i could upgrade my characters to 19k but theres no point to it but to run a dungeon as fast as possible to get the loot at the same speed.
That doesn't make a shred of sense. How is running a dungeon 2-3 times during a delve getting loot at the same speed as running it once during a delve because it takes you longer to clear to and kill the boss? Intentionally handicapping your character to artificially make things more difficult is ridiculous. If you want to make the game more challenging then make it riskier and do what every other person does by pulling bigger packs of mobs and going through the dungeon quicker. And like most people here seem to understand, that's where the GF falls apart and is not a desirable class. That's kinda the entire premise that you're somehow missing.
Comparing a Tank GF to a DPS tank GWF is ridiculous? Why is it then the DPS version of the warrior can do everything a GF can do better, with better dps, better mobility, better AOE, and better damage mitigation?
The comparison between two identical classes is not ridiculous as one of them can do every thing the other can with no disadvantage!
im just gonna mention again that the mobs are easy enough because they havent grown the same speed and rate the heros have at 15K+ gs the DR of mobs has been pretty much the same since game was in beta.
the GF isnt weak its the mobs that are. GF is adept at decreasing damage for party and to itself and its attacks are all debuff and spike damage its a tank not dps thats why comparing them to a dps is pointless they just dont work that way.
at 2000+ GS over dungeon the enemies are all weaker thusly the GF is not needed especially when speed running.
its why i stay at 12k gs because it still makes it challenging and fun if i really wanted to i could upgrade my characters to 19k but theres no point to it but to run a dungeon as fast as possible to get the loot at the same speed.
its the reason why it feels so lackluster end game because at current end game; it really doesnt matter what you take, you will likely win.
we just have to wait for the higher dungeons to be made and will take quite a while every few months these changes will come like they always do.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
At a huge gs difference to the dungeon it doesnt matter who you bring and the two classes are not identical the gwf is meant to protect itself and deal damage the point of a tank "GF" is to aggro to make it so the other dps is able to fly free. As long as you have a gs of over 5000 over the highest dungeon then the GF is not needed.
If say there was a dungeon at 17k gs with enemies as strong as a hero at 17k gs then those characters at 17k gs would need a tank to make it so that they dont get smited.
it's not stupid to want to stay at 12k because it is more fun because the enemies are just as powerful as i am difference is im smart enough to fight them with out being smited. because the highest gs dungeon is only 10.5 when theres a 14k dungeon I will go up there.
ive never said everything is fine with the gf far from it but as long as there are stronger than normal people in these low dungeons then theres: no reason for the GF according to most elites.
I disagree but what the hell do i know only been a gamer and studying to be a dev for 24 years.
again comparing youre always comparing. there is no comparison.
Wizards in games are always multi target nukers; the fact that they control too is because of magic which has been the same since the very first rpg.
rogues in games always hit hard from the back in the shadows
Tanks in games are better protected then the other two and is capable of protecting them.
GWF is a damage dealing tank that only protects himself besides his knockdowns and thier marks are not as good as the GF because GF can be feated to gain more and more aggro a GWF mark is basically just there as a debuff addition.
rangers in games are meant to be a detrement to their enemies and an aid to thier allies which they are; present bugs excluded.
clerics are meant to heal and support and buff and deal damage if support is not needed.
That about covers it?
the problem is that people are so focused on the now you forget about the future this game is far from over being made so this "end game" that everyone obsesses over is actually "mid game"
and these useless events everyone calls it is something to do while we wait i find them tedious but fun.
I don't play a GF so I can only go by what I have observed from playing with many of them: their DPS and mobility sucks. There is nothing more embarrassing then playing with my DC and out DPS'ing a better geared GF while I'm doing nothing more than healing and damage mitigation. And I can tell they are really, really working hard as hell on the mobs the whole time. They are suppose to "tank" bosses but in epics the boss is usually of second concern compared to the mass of adds that rush in. And for those bosses they do try to tank their blocking doesn't seem to work very well and they get thrown about. So here is my wish list for a class I have never played:
1. More weapon damage. I've looked at their weapons and can't figure out why their best is so low. Something like 100 more points to the max. Obviously not GWF weapon damage as the GF sword is smaller
2. Those "prones" they shoot out should really stun in AoE. And a long stun too. Do this by making those hit get up really slow (like they just got hit by a truck). The stun should make the GF get all the threat if not already and interrupt anything the mobs were getting ready to throw out. This would need nerfed in PvP as it would make GFs OP and for bosses it should only interrupt, not stun.
3. Bosses shouldn't be able to damage, control, or throw a GF if the GF has their shield up and enough in their meter to withstand it.
4. Serious single target damage. Make them the go to boss killers. I know they have Knights Challenge but it doesn't seem like enough (and I think it has a long cooldown). Parties should say "tank on boss" instead of "tank, go run circles for the adds amusement". This frees up everyone else, like me, to deal with adds. Some tricky bosses or party compositions may require a GF on adds but that is where points #1 and #2 allow them to shine doing that task too. I can see not wanting more than one DC in a group, but parties should be happy for having two GFs in the mix like two of any other class now.
I don't play a GF so I can only go by what I have observed from playing with many of them: their DPS and mobility sucks. There is nothing more embarrassing then playing with my DC and out DPS'ing a better geared GF while I'm doing nothing more than healing and damage mitigation. And I can tell they are really, really working hard as hell on the mobs the whole time. They are suppose to "tank" bosses but in epics the boss is usually of second concern compared to the mass of adds that rush in. And for those bosses they do try to tank their blocking doesn't seem to work very well and they get thrown about. So here is my wish list for a class I have never played:
1. More weapon damage. I've looked at their weapons and can't figure out why their best is so low. Something like 100 more points to the max. Obviously not GWF weapon damage as the GF sword is smaller
2. Those "prones" they shoot out should really stun in AoE. And a long stun too. Do this by making those hit get up really slow (like they just got hit by a truck). The stun should make the GF get all the threat if not already and interrupt anything the mobs were getting ready to throw out. This would need nerfed in PvP as it would make GFs OP and for bosses it should only interrupt, not stun.
3. Bosses shouldn't be able to damage, control, or throw a GF if the GF has their shield up and enough in their meter to withstand it.
4. Serious single target damage. Make them the go to boss killers. I know they have Knights Challenge but it doesn't seem like enough (and I think it has a long cooldown). Parties should say "tank on boss" instead of "tank, go run circles for the adds amusement". This frees up everyone else, like me, to deal with adds. Some tricky bosses or party compositions may require a GF on adds but that is where points #1 and #2 allow them to shine doing that task too. I can see not wanting more than one DC in a group, but parties should be happy for having two GFs in the mix like two of any other class now.
this i can agree with excepting the part of control or throw if the attack is immense enough it should still throw but not damage or under the floor the shield should do nothing as it does now because it makes sense unless they configure the animation to have the shield point to the floor to block it.
at least you are trying to come up with something.
1. More weapon damage. I've looked at their weapons and can't figure out why their best is so low. Something like 100 more points to the max. Obviously not GWF weapon damage as the GF sword is smaller
It's all about the sword size.
Honestly though boost the gf's dmg range on weapons to that of gwf. It would make it far easier to balance dmg between the two especially now that they share paragons.
I don't play a GF so I can only go by what I have observed from playing with many of them: their DPS and mobility sucks. There is nothing more embarrassing then playing with my DC and out DPS'ing a better geared GF while I'm doing nothing more than healing and damage mitigation. And I can tell they are really, really working hard as hell on the mobs the whole time. They are suppose to "tank" bosses but in epics the boss is usually of second concern compared to the mass of adds that rush in. And for those bosses they do try to tank their blocking doesn't seem to work very well and they get thrown about. So here is my wish list for a class I have never played:
1. More weapon damage. I've looked at their weapons and can't figure out why their best is so low. Something like 100 more points to the max. Obviously not GWF weapon damage as the GF sword is smaller
2. Those "prones" they shoot out should really stun in AoE. And a long stun too. Do this by making those hit get up really slow (like they just got hit by a truck). The stun should make the GF get all the threat if not already and interrupt anything the mobs were getting ready to throw out. This would need nerfed in PvP as it would make GFs OP and for bosses it should only interrupt, not stun.
3. Bosses shouldn't be able to damage, control, or throw a GF if the GF has their shield up and enough in their meter to withstand it.
4. Serious single target damage. Make them the go to boss killers. I know they have Knights Challenge but it doesn't seem like enough (and I think it has a long cooldown). Parties should say "tank on boss" instead of "tank, go run circles for the adds amusement". This frees up everyone else, like me, to deal with adds. Some tricky bosses or party compositions may require a GF on adds but that is where points #1 and #2 allow them to shine doing that task too. I can see not wanting more than one DC in a group, but parties should be happy for having two GFs in the mix like two of any other class now.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
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dissssppppMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
the problem is that people are so focused on the now you forget about the future this game is far from over being made so this "end game" that everyone obsesses over is actually "mid game"
Of course we're talking about now, because that's all we have to go by. Will the GF be viable in the future? It very well may be at some point, but it's just not currently in upper end groups. This discussion is taking place because we all hope things will change in the future whether it be with class changes, dungeon changes, or hopefully both. You're trying to argue the class is something other than broken as of right now, and that's just wrong. The class just does not scale like the others once you're at about 11k great score and increasing.
Gear progression is what the entire game revolves around. It's the carrot that drives people to clear SpellPlague for the 30'th time. You've decided to stagnate your character to create a more challenging game, and that's fine. No one else is going to do that.
Exactly how can we continue with a class that is forgotten NOW, after we spent so much time and $$$$. If GF isn't brought within line of other classes now, then the GF will be completely a wasted pixel later in the game!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
You should really append "in high-end maximum-efficiency party formation, in LFG" to most of these posts.
A lot of people would prefer to play for fun, with people they like, regardless of class, and for these parties GFs are about as welcome as any other.
This doesn't mean the GF isn't poorly balanced, or that you couldn't run much faster by simply taking another CW (because both of these are definitely true), but the cries of "Useless and nobody wants them" only refer to a fairly specific type of party (and not a very good type of party at that).
I agree with you, but the GF shouldn't have to hybrid spec himself to be useful and yet make himself feeble in other capacity's. Its ridiculous how a GWF can be successful any direction they take and do it better then the GF but a GF needs to gear crit, and spec for power losing damage mitigation whereas others just get those naturally!
If on the character creation page they told me the Guardian Fighter will have virtually no DPS, will still take massive damage and be CCed through his mighty shield, and have the run speed of cold molasses flowing uphill, while having the longest animation locks in the game, I wouldn't have wasted time / $$$$ on him!
You should really append "in high-end maximum-efficiency party formation, in LFG" to most of these posts.
A lot of people would prefer to play for fun, with people they like, regardless of class, and for these parties GFs are about as welcome as any other.
This doesn't mean the GF isn't poorly balanced, or that you couldn't run much faster by simply taking another CW (because both of these are definitely true), but the cries of "Useless and nobody wants them" only refer to a fairly specific type of party (and not a very good type of party at that).
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I agree with you, but the GF shouldn't have to hybrid spec himself to be useful and yet make himself feeble in other capacity's. Its ridiculous how a GWF can be successful any direction they take and do it better then the GF but a GF needs to gear crit, and spec for power losing damage mitigation whereas others just get those naturally!
If on the character creation page they told me the Guardian Fighter will have virtually no DPS, will still take massive damage and be CCed through his mighty shield, and have the run speed of cold molasses flowing uphill, while having the longest animation locks in the game, I wouldn't have wasted time / $$$$ on him!
From what I've seen, no matter what with a GF you are going to be at soft cap on defense, so saying that your defense is low to get power is misleading.
but a GF needs to gear crit, and spec for power losing damage mitigation whereas others just get those naturally!
8100 power (without an offensive weapon or shield, so no Brutal Scimitar and Timeless shield), 1700 crit, 2100 arpen, 44.6% DR, 21% deflec, 29k HP? All rank 6s, 1 blue artifact, 1 green artifact. Most damage taken in dungeons, fewest falls, all day.
The difference between my regular gear (above) and my ''tank gear'' is 1200 stat points (3300 TO 4500) which equates to 3.6% DR, which is really not that much.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
8100 power (without an offensive weapon or shield, so no Brutal Scimitar and Timeless shield), 1700 crit, 2100 arpen, 44.6% DR, 21% deflec, 29k HP? All rank 6s, 1 blue artifact, 1 green artifact. Most damage taken in dungeons, fewest falls, all day.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Whats your GS? I bet you got all that gear previous to the last patch? Unless you have a guild thats charitable you wont get the slots now.
16.8k
I rolled my GF after Mod 2 landed. Full Timeless farmed myself. Still farming now.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I'm still trying to get my KC hat (**** you, MD)....
U can get the t1 set from doing t2 dungeons as well. Is a nice bonus to get while u farm your T2, it can also drop from pk which is by far the easiest.
U can get the t1 set from doing t2 dungeons as well. Is a nice bonus to get while u farm your T2, it can also drop from pk which is by far the easiest.
I've gotten more t1 drops in t2's than t2 drops sadly.
I'm still trying to get my KC hat (**** you, MD)....
I've respecced my GF into the Tactician tree on the preview shard and testing it. As for the KC set, as you are experiencing, Chartillifax is being a jerk and won't give me a decent chest.
My only issue is my GS plummets by 4k in the KC set and LFG is all about p.enis size, so they see 12.8k GF and probably think ''nub'' when in reality everything about my build will make them better.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Comments
So basically you don't want to share your build, but you want to tell other people they are doing it wrong because they don't use your secret build.
Right. Mods, please lock this thread.
jeez. i dont care anymore have fun making others feel like nothing.
Prior to the Stalwark/tenebrous nerfing it was quite common to see GF's top of the paingiver, I know because I used to be there. Unfortunately I only had 2 weeks of play with that setup before it was nerfed. So don't say GF is not about DPS - it was once viable so why shouldn't we have that option now? If it makes me a crappy GF for being unhappy that I can no longer do something I used to be able to do then yeah I'm HAMSTER, but I don't want to be a buffbot, I would have rolled DC if that's what I wanted.
My original argument (and that of many others) still stands. There is no point taking a GF into a dungeon. Sure it can contribute and the group can succeed, but other setups work better if you want to do the job quickly, and many people know that and as a result it is hard to get in a Dungeon with a good group. If this statement is not true, why is GF's equipment dirt cheap on the AH? Because so few are playing the class because it is currently redundant or unliked. Or are you saying they all couldn't play properly so they quit? And that anyone who is unhappy with their GF is inexperienced?
We are currently a 4th rate DPS class and a 2nd/3rd rate buff class. Yeah we can get/hold aggro, but as a CW has pointed out in this thread it's not needed when they can just melt eveything.
I DON'T RUN WITH A GUILD so don't have the luxury of my guild mates understanding how my class can contribute in other ways other than kiting. The two guilds I was in never invited me to any DD runs other than FH, or they tried to stick me in with the newbs because yeh a good GF can help a poor group succeed, and the experienced players didn't want slowing down.
Did your super buffboat GF do any good in Monsters on Ice? Perhaps the winter festival event didn't interest you because you can farm CN/MC/VT with your guildies. But I don't have that option so have to farm other things, and as a result can't afford to buy every set for every situation - doesn't mean I'm inexperienced.
damanhur89 thanks for your more pleasant response. I wouldn't say I was melodramatic (maybe over generalising or something) but my experience of Neverwinter has not been that great. I don't like being rudely criticised in dungeons when it is not my fault, and with and all the vote kicking/hijacking that goes on, and the difficulty in finding a good group I find it hard to be possitive about my GF any any group situation. Again this is a PUG experience so maybe if I find a good guild it might change (but i don't want to use teamspeak). I understand CW's don't have to push to be good, but these CW's didn't do anything other than Magic Missle. I gathered up all the adds and was just left to deal with them.
Sadly the most fun I have had in this game was farming the blacklake skirmish with my alt. I met some nice people in there about 6 months ago, now its just full of people lighting barrels!!!
I didnt bought any of my stets i got them when i was gathering experience in dungeons...
Read all my posts i dont like to repeat myself. And yes, good gf can drag every **** party through fh,pf,karru. I did it milions of times. And yes, elitist wont take you to party but i hate this kind of thinking and i stay away from them. Its good that im leader type of person not crybaby thats all.
Steel and Magic
This is fantastic, it has to be a troll. Great stuff
I never said I didn't use knights challenge I said my 10k TR can do it quicker and used PF as an example. To me if a 10K TR can do things quicker than a 19k GF then something is wrong.
I do use KC but NO and NEVER would I have it on the bar all the time. I slot it when facing a tougher mob member. For easy mobs or where there are lots of adds I would avoid it.
3 Trolls in Sharandar. FS > ET = Dead
2 powrie's/2 witherers. FS > ET = one left > LS = Dead
These are typical mob compilations in Sharandar. I don't see how using KC could be any quicker unless you have your daily up, but that is not going to be up at every mob encounter.
And I would call you rude and arrogant not a leader. Twice you have tried to belittle me and put me down when all I did was present valid reasons why I feel the class is subpar and I'm obvoiusly not alone. If you disagree then you should just present your argument without trying to put me down that is not what a good leader does. People like you are the reasons I avoid guilds and doing dungeons.
That's exactly what I do.
And maaan ur so touchy.
I wont discuss only downside as u like it. You dont see it but its bringing current status of gf even more down. Pll come here, cry how they are bad at things, other comes read all this bullsh... and say i dont take x becouse its useless i red it on forum...
I see tanks different than most of the community. In any way we should do dps, if you want that go with gwf. The biggest problem of tanks is the instance composition. It should have more uncontrolable mobs so the real tanks had there job. I see threat job and agro things as art. Its hard but doable, its fullfilling. I found the way and im ready for higher difficulity content.
I wont discuss about am i rude or not. Your skin is not tick enough to see my bad side. I take fresh 60s and show them the world, help them to gear up and make them understand that "rainbow teams are the most fun, exploiting is just disgracefull and that we dont have to make 3-5 dungs every DD, we have time tommorow let me show you aditional boss in this instance, cool, eh?" Thats leadership. Spending time with the others not yours "I stand alone!... but i dont have any group and no one whants me
Steel and Magic
Yes I am touchy. But you have no right to criticise me when you have never seen me in action. I (unlike you) have never claimed to be a super adored by all GF, I just said I consider myself to be experienced based on my 7 months of playing GF as my main, as opposed to someone who posts their GF is rubbish after just 2 weeks of play.
I understand your dislike of people complaining about GF's, because since i started reading the forums it has made me feel worse about the class than i did before.
Even your last post I can see you are dying to take jibs at me and it just wreaks of immaturity. You sound like you think you are the best GF in Neverwinter yet have done nothing other than brag to proove otherwise. At least the OP asked people to pm him and said people could invite him to see him in action and look at his class! Where's your offer?
Do you look at the LFG channel? I never see ppl asking for GF's for CN or VT, just FH, ocassionally SP/Karru/MC. My ability as a GF is unknown to anyone. I would have assumed being 19k people would actually want me but that's not the case, which is what i am such a cry baby about (as you put it). It has no reflection on my ability to play the class or not.
Yes I should look for a good guild, but quite frankly I am just waiting to see what the future holds for the GF now and just doing daily stuff to get more AD's so if ever it becomes a desirabe class again I will be good to go.
PM ME IF YOU WISH TO CONTINUE THIS in a mature fashion rather than troll/flame this thread.
GF are weakest melee, not needed for player progression, lack the solo prowess that other classes can easily obtain, and are completely left behind behind the subsidiary class the GWF which was buffed way to much and can do waht a GF can but better and do 200% more dps doing it!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
the GF isnt weak its the mobs that are. GF is adept at decreasing damage for party and to itself and its attacks are all debuff and spike damage its a tank not dps thats why comparing them to a dps is pointless they just dont work that way.
at 2000+ GS over dungeon the enemies are all weaker thusly the GF is not needed especially when speed running.
its why i stay at 12k gs because it still makes it challenging and fun if i really wanted to i could upgrade my characters to 19k but theres no point to it but to run a dungeon as fast as possible to get the loot at the same speed.
its the reason why it feels so lackluster end game because at current end game; it really doesnt matter what you take, you will likely win.
we just have to wait for the higher dungeons to be made and will take quite a while every few months these changes will come like they always do.
A CW is superior at decreasing damage to the party, mob control, and DPS. So if a CW does all of the roles a GF is designed to do and does a superior job, then what role do GF's truly have? I can't think of a single enemy in the game other than a boss that needs to be "tanked", and even then I don't know of any that can't be tanked just fine by a rogue, GWF.
That doesn't make a shred of sense. How is running a dungeon 2-3 times during a delve getting loot at the same speed as running it once during a delve because it takes you longer to clear to and kill the boss? Intentionally handicapping your character to artificially make things more difficult is ridiculous. If you want to make the game more challenging then make it riskier and do what every other person does by pulling bigger packs of mobs and going through the dungeon quicker. And like most people here seem to understand, that's where the GF falls apart and is not a desirable class. That's kinda the entire premise that you're somehow missing.
The comparison between two identical classes is not ridiculous as one of them can do every thing the other can with no disadvantage!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
At a huge gs difference to the dungeon it doesnt matter who you bring and the two classes are not identical the gwf is meant to protect itself and deal damage the point of a tank "GF" is to aggro to make it so the other dps is able to fly free. As long as you have a gs of over 5000 over the highest dungeon then the GF is not needed.
If say there was a dungeon at 17k gs with enemies as strong as a hero at 17k gs then those characters at 17k gs would need a tank to make it so that they dont get smited.
it's not stupid to want to stay at 12k because it is more fun because the enemies are just as powerful as i am difference is im smart enough to fight them with out being smited. because the highest gs dungeon is only 10.5 when theres a 14k dungeon I will go up there.
ive never said everything is fine with the gf far from it but as long as there are stronger than normal people in these low dungeons then theres: no reason for the GF according to most elites.
I disagree but what the hell do i know only been a gamer and studying to be a dev for 24 years.
again comparing youre always comparing. there is no comparison.
Wizards in games are always multi target nukers; the fact that they control too is because of magic which has been the same since the very first rpg.
rogues in games always hit hard from the back in the shadows
Tanks in games are better protected then the other two and is capable of protecting them.
GWF is a damage dealing tank that only protects himself besides his knockdowns and thier marks are not as good as the GF because GF can be feated to gain more and more aggro a GWF mark is basically just there as a debuff addition.
rangers in games are meant to be a detrement to their enemies and an aid to thier allies which they are; present bugs excluded.
clerics are meant to heal and support and buff and deal damage if support is not needed.
That about covers it?
the problem is that people are so focused on the now you forget about the future this game is far from over being made so this "end game" that everyone obsesses over is actually "mid game"
and these useless events everyone calls it is something to do while we wait i find them tedious but fun.
1. More weapon damage. I've looked at their weapons and can't figure out why their best is so low. Something like 100 more points to the max. Obviously not GWF weapon damage as the GF sword is smaller
2. Those "prones" they shoot out should really stun in AoE. And a long stun too. Do this by making those hit get up really slow (like they just got hit by a truck). The stun should make the GF get all the threat if not already and interrupt anything the mobs were getting ready to throw out. This would need nerfed in PvP as it would make GFs OP and for bosses it should only interrupt, not stun.
3. Bosses shouldn't be able to damage, control, or throw a GF if the GF has their shield up and enough in their meter to withstand it.
4. Serious single target damage. Make them the go to boss killers. I know they have Knights Challenge but it doesn't seem like enough (and I think it has a long cooldown). Parties should say "tank on boss" instead of "tank, go run circles for the adds amusement". This frees up everyone else, like me, to deal with adds. Some tricky bosses or party compositions may require a GF on adds but that is where points #1 and #2 allow them to shine doing that task too. I can see not wanting more than one DC in a group, but parties should be happy for having two GFs in the mix like two of any other class now.
this i can agree with excepting the part of control or throw if the attack is immense enough it should still throw but not damage or under the floor the shield should do nothing as it does now because it makes sense unless they configure the animation to have the shield point to the floor to block it.
at least you are trying to come up with something.
It's all about the sword size.
Honestly though boost the gf's dmg range on weapons to that of gwf. It would make it far easier to balance dmg between the two especially now that they share paragons.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Of course we're talking about now, because that's all we have to go by. Will the GF be viable in the future? It very well may be at some point, but it's just not currently in upper end groups. This discussion is taking place because we all hope things will change in the future whether it be with class changes, dungeon changes, or hopefully both. You're trying to argue the class is something other than broken as of right now, and that's just wrong. The class just does not scale like the others once you're at about 11k great score and increasing.
Gear progression is what the entire game revolves around. It's the carrot that drives people to clear SpellPlague for the 30'th time. You've decided to stagnate your character to create a more challenging game, and that's fine. No one else is going to do that.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
A lot of people would prefer to play for fun, with people they like, regardless of class, and for these parties GFs are about as welcome as any other.
This doesn't mean the GF isn't poorly balanced, or that you couldn't run much faster by simply taking another CW (because both of these are definitely true), but the cries of "Useless and nobody wants them" only refer to a fairly specific type of party (and not a very good type of party at that).
If on the character creation page they told me the Guardian Fighter will have virtually no DPS, will still take massive damage and be CCed through his mighty shield, and have the run speed of cold molasses flowing uphill, while having the longest animation locks in the game, I wouldn't have wasted time / $$$$ on him!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
8100 power (without an offensive weapon or shield, so no Brutal Scimitar and Timeless shield), 1700 crit, 2100 arpen, 44.6% DR, 21% deflec, 29k HP? All rank 6s, 1 blue artifact, 1 green artifact. Most damage taken in dungeons, fewest falls, all day.
The difference between my regular gear (above) and my ''tank gear'' is 1200 stat points (3300 TO 4500) which equates to 3.6% DR, which is really not that much.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
16.8k
I rolled my GF after Mod 2 landed. Full Timeless farmed myself. Still farming now.
I'm still trying to get my KC hat (**** you, MD)....
U can get the t1 set from doing t2 dungeons as well. Is a nice bonus to get while u farm your T2, it can also drop from pk which is by far the easiest.
I've gotten more t1 drops in t2's than t2 drops sadly.
I've respecced my GF into the Tactician tree on the preview shard and testing it. As for the KC set, as you are experiencing, Chartillifax is being a jerk and won't give me a decent chest.
My only issue is my GS plummets by 4k in the KC set and LFG is all about p.enis size, so they see 12.8k GF and probably think ''nub'' when in reality everything about my build will make them better.