Should definitely roll a HR. And understand why your suggestions on how to play the class are wrong. What you ran into was likely a combat build HR. Which requires an entirely different build and feat set up. And is also near useless in PVE. Most of us do both PVP and PVE. I already change gear to PVP, I am not going to respec twice every time I do it (once to be combat and again for the delve). Although if I had a pure PVP toon a combat build would be a lot of fun....
We are discussing PVP arent we? didnt know PVE was in the equasion,, LOL Hrs in pve suck right now, they really need to fix that Ill give them that much. but in pvp its all about the build .... you can level your toon from level 10 to 60 in nothing but pvp ,, its what i did on this last rogue build.
and as to his build ,, I mena it almost made me wanna make a HR and research that build cause frankly it was a force to be wreckoned with ,,, he even tore up the two GWFs in my party.
and btw my post there was a response to what i consider was direct attack on my posts ,, so I thought to get blunt with the fella.
The HR is truly meant to be a hybrid though other wise why give them melee skills at all.
2 actually ,, one is end game ,, i don't like it ..... but I've seen its potential.
Attemtp to build a HR like a rogue ,,, dex str, or Dex cha, i think it would play almost the same as a TR just not as stealth , with more deflect.
or hell even Int con, theres an interesting probably fail but interesting idea lol
the only sympathy i have towards the low budget Hrs and I can feel for them is their gear is too **** expensive and absolutely not on par with the other classes gear price wise, other then that. I stand by my words on them falling back on a bugged exploit.
Then go back and take another look.
While the HR has hybrid gameplay elements, the Paragon paths are not set up for a true hybrid build. You have to go so far into both the Archery and Combat trees that you would have to give up both capstone feats. Like with pretty much all other classes you have to pick one of the three trees and go with that playstyle. If you major in the Archery tree you will never pick up enough melee attack or defence/deflect to be viable.
What you have seen is most likely Combat spec HRs. This is the optimal PvP build but is pretty useless in PvE. For those of us who play both, Archery is the build that has most utility in either at the same time. And a large part of Archery, as in any other game, is roots/snares/interrupts.
The HR is truly meant to be a hybrid though other wise why give them melee skills at all.
This is actually a very good question, because IMO the paragon paths are not compatible with the hybrid style that attracted me to the class in the first place. You can be good at range and gimped in melee or vice versa.
Pve comes into the equation when making a combat build makes it impossible. Tell you what give me 600 zen every time I feel like running a delve and I'll play combat all you want. Don't take my word for it. Leave the forums, go to PE, get on the AH, and look at the base damage on blades and bows. Now with the burst damage to get PVP kills and a full respec that works great. For the aggregate DPS to have any effect in a dungeon it won't.
Your 'solution' of having everyone just build PVP exclusive toons with the build you like is frankly laughable.
While the HR has hybrid gameplay elements, the Paragon paths are not set up for a true hybrid build. You have to go so far into both the Archery and Combat trees that you would have to give up both capstone feats. Like with pretty much all other classes you have to pick one of the three trees and go with that playstyle. If you major in the Archery tree you will never pick up enough melee attack or defence/deflect to be viable.
What you have seen is most likely Combat spec HRs. This is the optimal PvP build but is pretty useless in PvE. For those of us who play both, Archery is the build that has most utility in either at the same time. And a large part of Archery, as in any other game, is roots/snares/interrupts.
refers to the folow up post i made after that particular post.\
Pve comes into the equation when making a combat build makes it impossible. Tell you what give me 600 zen every time I feel like running a delve and I'll play combat all you want. Don't take my word for it. Leave the forums, go to PE, get on the AH, and look at the base damage on blades and bows. Now with the burst damage to get PVP kills and a full respec that works great. For the aggregate DPS to have any effect in a dungeon it won't.
Your 'solution' of having everyone just build PVP exclusive toons with the build you like is frankly laughable.
but thats just it this topic is not about PVE situations, I acknowledge the issues with PVe, but to be fair HR isnt the only class you have to have one or the other,
DC comes to mind with the PVP spec builds, or CWs doing straight up PVP builds, HR builds are no different in that respect, hell even sentinal GWFs build for PVE only cant pvp worth a **** against a PVP built HR wouldn't even be a fair fight, unstoppable, then what sure some prone attack but point is its a pvp topic clearly ,, and don't get me wrong I am hearing what you are saying too, Allot play both on the same toon, but honestly its clearly by ultimate choice because PVP gives just as much and sometimes more XP than Questing or foundrying up your toon , might be slower but so what, get to level 60 too fast and then what? your 60 woohoo! ( sarcasm) .
and you know roots wouldn't even be a problem if they were effect by the same immunity as any other CC like effect. but Roots is this unavoidable you cant dodge it you cant avoid it if its there, its just there,
Wait. I have a solution. Were'nt we saying a couple of pages back that having DG all the way at the bottom of a tree so you could capstone one tree and still grab it was not broken at all? Problem. Solved. Put it at the bottom of the combat tree too! Then we will see more hybrid HRs.
Trickster: Speaking for myself I am not targeting the TR specifically. I'm targeting situationaly. Naturally if I see an opportunity to hit the perma when he unstealths I am going to do it. But I am equally likely to cripple or bind the fighter that is pummeling my teammate. If I am not dropping AOE on the scrum at 2.
Twilight: See above. Hr is a lousy choice for holding a cap, this is true. The GF or GWF is going to do a better job of it. I Know some DCs that can hold a cap pretty well too. This is a team sport. As a ranged class the HR can do a lot to affect the outcomes of the fight. Add some DPs when one of your guys is losing. Take down the guy who runs so your team does not have to leave the cap. And yes make people like trickster so angry they chase you for the match rather than helping their own team.....
Sorry I missed this post, you know situationally, thats fine, i can understand situationally and in A true team Vs team work situation thats all we all would do is help out our buds in combat, and for that I wouldnt hate you for, but My standing is on the matter of those who intentionally go kill steal blood ,, or something crooked as that. And trust me you guys may not see this but in pug matches i see this CONSTANTLY. and grant this is a defunct issue because domination is a team player sport ,, but aint no team playing when your a pug who has people who cant even understand your language and your up against people who on team speak together saying hey lets just kill them fast and get it over with. cause we like being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to pugs. Point is HRs in this situation, do dishonors and kill steal from their teammates or as some have obviously pointed out do so intentionally just because they dont like the class or whatever, and I feel like a broken record but rooting would not be an issue at all, if i could break them. or they had a short time span on which they last ,, as a rogue it takes away my defence ,, dodgeign and stealthing if im in one spot well im at a useless and helpless point if their teams around GWFs usually or GFs who use you for table tennis practice. had that happen too ,,, two gfs bouncing me from one end of the node to the other timing their knocks out perfectly where it was constant till i was dead ,, which wouldnt have happened if i wasnt rooted and could maintain distance to regen health back to defend myself.
LOL or worse when its two GF a GWF their cleric and HR like a certain match last night where my team suddenly ran off and i was stuck in a 5 v 1 situation.
I would love to see some people walk a couple matches in my shoes sometimes. HR rooting makes a bad situation THAT MUCH WORSE.
Oh I get rooted too. And you can bet the farm that if the GF or GWF gets ahold of me I will be soccer practice in a heartbeat. I don't get bleeds and I don't get all those bonuses when stealthed that you do and I certainly can't perma. So when that fighter sets his sights on me I have to slow him down and play some keep-away or go splat. I'll take the shot on the TR if it is there just like he is going to burst me if he sees the opportunity. But when the meat grinder is bearing down on me I'm using every stun and root I can throw. So they turn it into another CC following the same rules. What happens? Unstoppable- dash- I'm a pinata. Fun!
Oh I get rooted too. And you can bet the farm that if the GF or GWF gets ahold of me I will be soccer practice in a heartbeat. I don't get bleeds and I don't get all those bonuses when stealthed that you do and I certainly can't perma. So when that fighter sets his sights on me I have to slow him down and play some keep-away or go splat. I'll take the shot on the TR if it is there just like he is going to burst me if he sees the opportunity. But when the meat grinder is bearing down on me I'm using every stun and root I can throw. So they turn it into another CC following the same rules. What happens? Unstoppable- dash- I'm a pinata. Fun!
yeah and rooting is really thee one and only issue i even have with HRs ,,, that and the fact some of their skills that plant **** on the nods tend attack your with their weapon enchants damage ,, which to be honest makes no sense to me,,, but im not gonna hate on that too much. rooting just gets me in more bad situations than any any any thing else ,,,, unless the OP gwf catches me off cooldowns, then Im chopped liver. but other than that ,, no problems with the HR at all ,,, in fact i think in PVE ,, the Hr is lacking so PVe its a totally different opinion and i welcome rooting,,,, in pvp ,,, I hate it with an upscaled passion.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2014
Mostly the impression of HRs are generally bad becuase of the following:
1. They are a very popular class right now, some of them are VERY bad...
2. Getting into a pug with Two Hrs with 7k gear scores is a bad thing.. its a insta loss for your side most of the time.
3. They fill a niche, but its a pretty small one and it becomes quickly redundant with more then one HR, unless you are facing similar equations on the other side.. However, similar GS GWF's and TRs on one side vs Similiar Scores HRs on the other, doesnt help you win glory. If you just want to sit back and top kill charts, I guess that matters to some. My favority thing as a DC is see them ghost away.. as if dying mattered at all!
Silver is quite correct. HR is the shiny new toy and so everyone built one. But unlike other classes we haven't really figured out what it does yet. And there is not a flat out proper guide or role for the class yet. I've been maining mine since I got it to 60 and I'm only 80% certain I am doing it right and still experimenting with the other 20%. The net result is a lot of HRs that are pretty incompetent.
I think most HRs are going through what most classes did at the beginning of the game, relying on burst damage builds in pvp. Most have not figured out a good way to balance damage with survival yet, so they are afraid to get close to anything. HRs have a natural elusiveness that plays to hit and run style that leaves you away from nodes.
You can build an HR with a lot more survivability than people realize, while still maintaining very good burst damage. I run 30K HPs, 2500 defense, and I am rarely afriad to stick on a point or rush into skirmishes on a point. I also use the pvp set for the run boost and have over 30% run speed. Combined with all the shifts/didges HRs get, I manage to help hold and takes caps very well. I don't even use roots most of the time unless I have a CW teammate in a premade, to help protect them.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Most of the shiny new HR players wanted to be Legolas and so Archer builds are over-represented. It's an easy build to level and play in PvE and also works well in Sharandar/DR. It's much tougher to make work in PvP - I'm on my third respec and I'm still not getting it quite right. I may have to bite the bullet and respec to Combat, but I already have plenty of melee toons so I'm reluctant to just give up on ranged...:(
So basically majority of qqers are gwfs who are still most OP class in overall and trs who are still imo strongest class in 1v1 with permabilerecreg, not to mention the most annoying for holding/stalling/backcap enemy nods, which are even worse then earlier mentioned iv-sents unkillablegodmode with ridiculous dmg output with just pvorp who could tank so much dmg and when he feels threatened just pop unstoppable and ran toward nearest pot and come back ina jiffy on full hp.
Now when counter is here lets QQ about it, just wonder why dcs and cws dont complain that much versus archer build HRs.
Ohh wait, they kill them (sooner or later)... u see what i did thar -_-
Why do i hate HR? Well as for i play TR, n the way i do so HR or any other class can land on me only one abillity every 10 - 20 sec. Most of time HR lands on me bugged roots.
Like some1 mention rarely i see a melle abillity which is far more dangerous but still bugged. Why they do r bugged. Because the way i play i manage to dodge 70% of abbilities. So i dont see a reason, why HR should find himself near me when basically i just dodge his abillity.
But thats smtgh that is confirmed. It's just a bug. I guess they will fix it. Prolly in one year, based on fact how much bugs arent fixed since release time.
The thing i cant figure out is how roots applies to me when the hit my bite n im 5 feet away from it already? Or how do they appllie to me when im stealthed 5 feet away from GWF that roots actually hit?
But the most annoying thing is an entangle ****. Wraps around u n ur stunned for half of a second even when u dodge the root, n somehow they didnt apllied, or manage to run from it range. Like thats not enough it happens 3 time in a row (every 2 sec?) on one root arrow!
I know TR n GWF r OP. I get ur frustration about this topic but here's smtgh u must understand. Right now due to the bug, n ONLY because of it. ( Which will be fixed since devs acknowledge it ) HR > TR > GWF/GF > CW > DC. After roots r fixed: TR > GWF/GF > HR > CW > DC.
If u have problem against any class it is only because u do not understand HR full potential. U do not know how to chain skills, n create combos. Prolly also u do not understand how to deal with each class n that it should be done separately.
LOL, funny, well perhaps I'm not the usual rogue who goes after the kill steal. I have seen some rogues do that and i equally dislike them for such nonsense,
but saying because of my class i deserve it? fine here lets lay it all on the table shall we?...............
First off... HR's dont even get that they have an advantage over other classes and don't take advantage of it
because they too busy being babied by their roots to be competitive truly in pvp.
I saw a **** good HR in pvp just last night, didnt pull roots with me he fought me straight up ,,, and kicked my ***. you know how he kicked my ***? he figured out the advantages of having a Rogue with ranged skills. and he learned by skill how to use that HR, I have respect for someone who doesn't turn to their Exploited bug for protection.
Where as some *******, not naming specific names here.... will come along and take the easiest way out possible because They got in their head to be a lazy **** and not truly learn the potential of that Class.
The HR is A HYbrid class, learn to be a **** hybrid ,, not a *OH lets stand off the node cause the big bad GWF will come and get me and i need to root him and that rogue* routine most of the Hrs seem to be falling under.
Look at the skill potential, lets see HR has a heal possibly, HR has a prone feature and stun feature, almost worse than the TRs , HRs also have a stealth option, HRs can shoot from a long distance or up close and do decent damage if they tried, HRs have a Knock down feature ,, Hrs have a higher Armour pen. than a Rogue could possibly get with the right gear, HR's and on top of all this you have node holding capabilities if you really tried and learned how to build your toon right.
But NOPE you tend to folow the crowd like a pack of sheep and do what the *easy out* is. Blah blah blah you can argue needing rooting all **** day and i can show you Hrs that would have your *** for breakfast with out a root in the equasion, I have seen them. so hate my class all you want ,, but learn to play yours with skill ,, not a fall back laziness.
Heres the Straight up Fact your a **** Rogue with a Bow and arrow ,,, learn to be a rogue with a bow and arrow.
That's funny you should mention that, because a tr would try to tell someone they should make an hr a certain way. The fact is, hr's MAY be able to be made hybrid. Do you look at the paragon paths at all?! Archery(prime bow/arrow), Combat(prime blades), Nature(hybrid/buffs). To tell hr's that they should follow the path you want them to is pretty base, and an easy way out for you. It's funny because ive played since beta, and 99% of the tr's I run across(still) are only and purely permastealth based. Why don't you guys(tr's) roll anything besides permastealth, then come back to me about running 1 specific setup, as opposed to the fact that you guys have 2 possible paragon setups(mi/wk), yet they still can both run permastealth.
You want me to lay your class across the table?! Fine...
First off, you have the ability to be invisible PERMANENTLY... how can that go wrong? you can sneak your chicken *** around someone fighting, around someone capping, and backstab them for your kill steal... which I see 99% of the time from you chickens.
Second off, you have the ability to be IMMUNE TO DAMAGE... ITC is the single most OP ability you have(counting single abilities vs using a combo(permastealth)).
Thirdly, saying that hr's take the lazy way out, from a class that still has 1 build almost everyone uses, and its been that way since beta, is funny. Permastealth has existed in beta, if people should learn to not take the easy way out, why is 1 of the starting classes STILL using its OP build?
You want more people on your side? reroll your trickster rogue for damage, NO STEALTHING AT ALL, and no ITC... then we can talk about how annoying 1 ability that hr's have. Its funny cuz ive seen most hr's use roots, and it doesn't annoy me at all... but I see EVERY tr use stealth. And before you go all "waaah, its our class specialty"... tough... you have ways of making that OP. When I see an enemy rooted, does it also do damage to them? No, it keeps them in one spot. Tr's have teleports, invisibility, immortal abilities, and dazing abilities. No other class has that much to offer in their class, so I really don't sympathize with your whining. Rangers have 1 of 3 ways to go right now, and although most go archery, some use the other types. Im cool w/ whatever a ranger does in pvp... im even cool w/ a CLASS WAY OLDER doing only 1 thing(permastealth)... but im not cool with whining coming from that hypocritical class.
And I have obliterated EVERY hunter ranger ive come across in pvp, if I can get within melee range... you should walk a minute in other people's shoes, before throwing a tantrum about what some people run across. Rangers no matter how well geared cant face tank things that the other melees(gf/gwf/tr) can.
Here's the Sraight up Facts your class is a perma-invisible, immortal at times, ks'ing chicken... learn to play something other than that.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
i have an archer ranger who i play as if hybrid and it does work at least half the time the thing is is most rangers are only using one side of the coin.
even legolas used his daggers he didnt just shoot absolutely everything.
i have an archer ranger who i play as if hybrid and it does work at least half the time the thing is is most rangers are only using one side of the coin.
even legolas used his daggers he didnt just shoot absolutely everything.
I agree with that entirely... my ranger also uses the archery path, but specced for hybrid/combat if need be(love aspect of the serpent switching + those 2 feats that are for stance switching, cant remember them atm). When im in pvp, I tend to switch depending on party composition. If theres no melee(hr's,tr's(don't count them as melee, see above post), cw's, dc's, I switch to running melee. If theres melee on the ground, I switch to a support role. I don't go for kill steals, I go for helping teammates(for example, rooting a tr running away... once again, post above). The versatility I see that rangers can do is pretty cool, but in the end, most shoot more than cut... once again, legolas can pull out his daggers, but what does he use 85-95% of the time?
Thing is, the class is new. You cant harsh on the class having 1 major game breaking mechanic, when the other classes have more to offer, and are older, but I still see the majority of gwf's running steamroller, or virtually ALL tr's running permastealth. The tr's are just pissed cuz now theres a class that can potentially do the annoying thing they've done all this time better. Like I said, I main a gwf and an hr, but playing pvp equally from both of those, I run into too many permastealth rogues to sympathize with this guys' complaints.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Even when roots is fixed hr will still be able to fight effectively as they are now it will just not go through unstoppable and immunity which is how game works normally all those things wear off and roots will be able to be used then.
Even when roots is fixed hr will still be able to fight effectively as they are now it will just not go through unstoppable and immunity which is how game works normally all those things wear off and roots will be able to be used then.
just pains me that 1 class does 1 thing that can stop "unstoppable" and defend against permastealth, and people throw ridiculous tantrums about it... its not like the roots do awesome damage, or can hold someone permanently, you know?
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
just pains me that 1 class does 1 thing that can stop "unstoppable" and defend against permastealth, and people throw ridiculous tantrums about it... its not like the roots do awesome damage, or can hold someone permanently, you know?
At least this has been addressed by the devs, and the roots are fixed in preview server.
Players should be more angry against the unbalanced gwf build that lets them tank better then the supposed tank (GF), and that can take on an entire team on their own. This has not been addressed by devs and no fix is in sight.
Funny how the roots bug actually did more to balance pvp than the devs have done.
As for HRs not fighting on point, IN hotenow i tend to eb at a distance as it's the smaller of the two maps. At point 2, a gwf,tr or a gf can easily reach you with an encounter and you have less room to manuever. So i beleive pklaying at a distance in that maop is better.
As for the other pvp map, i tend to fight on cap, more room to manuever.
At least this has been addressed by the devs, and the roots are fixed in preview server.
Players should be more angry against the unbalanced gwf build that lets them tank better then the supposed tank (GF), and that can take on an entire team on their own. This has not been addressed by devs and no fix is in sight.
Funny how the roots bug actually did more to balance pvp than the devs have done.
As for HRs not fighting on point, IN hotenow i tend to eb at a distance as it's the smaller of the two maps. At point 2, a gwf,tr or a gf can easily reach you with an encounter and you have less room to manuever. So i beleive pklaying at a distance in that maop is better.
As for the other pvp map, i tend to fight on cap, more room to manuever.
about the roots actually balancing more, yea I agree... but god forbid the 2 most OP classes in pvp(tr&gwf) have anything to counter them... bunch of whine babies, in my opinion. when I pvp, I support my teammates, cap if im the toughest thing there(which I shouldn't be anyway). asking an hr or cw to be on cap is like asking a gf or gwf(not going to mention tr's, cuz I still see them chicken out on caps) to not be on cap.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Archery Ranger is kind of meh, if your Front-line is not as strong as theirs you would eventually lose the game since you can't be on point constantly, you have to kite. I have seen many games the HR do really well in K/D ratio but his team lose regardless because we kill them on point before the HR deal enough dps, also he is busy dealing with who ever is gap closing him.
The biggest issue with HR is it is really vulnerable when the enemy has 2 cw while your team has a weak one or none. Icy Ray destroy HR it is like guarantee death if you have not build enough HP/defensive stat since you get instant focused.
Overall, good Job on this class Dev, it is quite fun.
HR is a cheese spec, I mean it may take me up to 60 seconds to kill a decent HR with my GWF....and that mean pure cheese.
Seriously, if you want to complain about HR, you should also be complaining about GWF & TR.
That being said the root ability is bugged, not sure if they even fixed the bug yet that lets HRs keep root permanent.
HR is a cheese spec, I mean it may take me up to 60 seconds to kill a decent HR with my GWF....and that mean pure cheese.
Seriously, if you want to complain about HR, you should also be complaining about GWF & TR....though HR may be replacing TR as the second best class.
That being said the root ability is bugged, not sure if they even fixed the bug yet that lets HRs keep root permanent.
Love the new forum updates...duplicate post with no indication that the first post posted, & nothing but an hourglass when trying to edit one of the posts.
That's funny you should mention that, because a tr would try to tell someone they should make an hr a certain way. The fact is, hr's MAY be able to be made hybrid. Do you look at the paragon paths at all?! Archery(prime bow/arrow), Combat(prime blades), Nature(hybrid/buffs). To tell hr's that they should follow the path you want them to is pretty base, and an easy way out for you. It's funny because ive played since beta, and 99% of the tr's I run across(still) are only and purely permastealth based. Why don't you guys(tr's) roll anything besides permastealth, then come back to me about running 1 specific setup, as opposed to the fact that you guys have 2 possible paragon setups(mi/wk), yet they still can both run permastealth.
You want me to lay your class across the table?! Fine...
First off, you have the ability to be invisible PERMANENTLY... how can that go wrong? you can sneak your chicken *** around someone fighting, around someone capping, and backstab them for your kill steal... which I see 99% of the time from you chickens.
Second off, you have the ability to be IMMUNE TO DAMAGE... ITC is the single most OP ability you have(counting single abilities vs using a combo(permastealth)).
Thirdly, saying that hr's take the lazy way out, from a class that still has 1 build almost everyone uses, and its been that way since beta, is funny. Permastealth has existed in beta, if people should learn to not take the easy way out, why is 1 of the starting classes STILL using its OP build?
You want more people on your side? reroll your trickster rogue for damage, NO STEALTHING AT ALL, and no ITC... then we can talk about how annoying 1 ability that hr's have. Its funny cuz ive seen most hr's use roots, and it doesn't annoy me at all... but I see EVERY tr use stealth. And before you go all "waaah, its our class specialty"... tough... you have ways of making that OP. When I see an enemy rooted, does it also do damage to them? No, it keeps them in one spot. Tr's have teleports, invisibility, immortal abilities, and dazing abilities. No other class has that much to offer in their class, so I really don't sympathize with your whining. Rangers have 1 of 3 ways to go right now, and although most go archery, some use the other types. Im cool w/ whatever a ranger does in pvp... im even cool w/ a CLASS WAY OLDER doing only 1 thing(permastealth)... but im not cool with whining coming from that hypocritical class.
And I have obliterated EVERY hunter ranger ive come across in pvp, if I can get within melee range... you should walk a minute in other people's shoes, before throwing a tantrum about what some people run across. Rangers no matter how well geared cant face tank things that the other melees(gf/gwf/tr) can.
Here's the Sraight up Facts your class is a perma-invisible, immortal at times, ks'ing chicken... learn to play something other than that.
you know what,, I think it's wise to put the proof in the pudding, I will get back to this argument after i do one said HR build using methods I will experiment with to achieve what I think might prove my theories, then if i do prove them ,, and its battle tested and earned its so called respects. Ill post the build with an invite for you to say ,,, *I stand corrected* ,,, if i don't prove my theory right, and my experiments prove wrong, i will gladly come on here and say ,, i was wrong. till then ,, I suppose its a matter of proving grounds.
with that said, heres a challenge for you, build a stealth rogue, but only use lesser (be it vorp, bile whatever) like i do on my rogue. in fact do snows build its a fantastic build for the rogue ,, right here in the forums. and do nothing but rank 7 at highest in your slots, Rank 7 silvery in all your offence, and Radiants in your defense, nothing else, except movement speeds in utility slots, then call me a chicken **** partner, I'm far from a chicken **** and Ill 1v1 anyone any day, including GWfs, might get my *** kicked, but ah be damned if I will ever be one to be called chickens **** He who decides to shoot roots from a distance and only when 3 other people are on the opponent, I have found myself in bad sitations more times because I also run in purely PUGs, not one match since i hit 60 on the Int rogue have i ran in a guild or premade, so Im on my own and 9 times out of ten Im fighting 3 maybe 4 people, you start doing that and not die. then call me a chicken ****.
trick i think that you will find a synergy with TR and HR. the thing is TR has a lot of melee possibilities backed by sub-standard ranged attacks. The inverse is true for HR. A lot of that is base weapon damage on melee. So really you need those radiants in offense because power ignores base dam. Forget Rads in D because LS will really be your main defense stat.
trick i think that you will find a synergy with TR and HR. the thing is TR has a lot of melee possibilities backed by sub-standard ranged attacks. The inverse is true for HR. A lot of that is base weapon damage on melee. So really you need those radiants in offense because power ignores base dam. Forget Rads in D because LS will really be your main defense stat.
if i wanted more damage i get on my STr/dex rogue, which is a damage DPs machine, that challenge was for them because they strictly called me a chicken ****, so I challenge them to run my setup and still call me a chicken **** ,,,
my stats just to give you an idea here
without campfire buff is on My pvp rogue....
17 str
21con
20dex
19int
14wiz
16cha
this build i can solo anyof the dread ring stuff, shar stuff just can't do epics because I am not permastealth Im semi perma,
I built this toon for fun in pvp only, it was leveled in pvp only ,, never did a quest or foundry leveling up on it past level 10.
the point is here this toon was made for pvp, its budget rogue , I have a lesser vorpal, a less soulforge
rank 7 silverys rank 6 radiants, and rank 6 dark in utilities, I have only 2 artifacts and they are blue not purple.
I want that particular person callin me a chicken **** to play with my setup in strictly Pugs ,, then call me a chicken **** ,,,
The main problem with HR is that HR have only 2 single viable skills: Split Shot and Rain of Arrow.
For all other skills HR need to be hybrid because they do half dmg because oblivious reason of 6 encounters but not 3 as other classes. So if someone HR can think that he can do only range/close_range skills he will use only half from HR's potential.
From other side most of HR's encounters are broken and/or do not work well. But yes the HR is playable class and can do not a little.
You just need to find your combo/skills.
Comments
We are discussing PVP arent we? didnt know PVE was in the equasion,, LOL Hrs in pve suck right now, they really need to fix that Ill give them that much. but in pvp its all about the build .... you can level your toon from level 10 to 60 in nothing but pvp ,, its what i did on this last rogue build.
and as to his build ,, I mena it almost made me wanna make a HR and research that build cause frankly it was a force to be wreckoned with ,,, he even tore up the two GWFs in my party.
and btw my post there was a response to what i consider was direct attack on my posts ,, so I thought to get blunt with the fella.
The HR is truly meant to be a hybrid though other wise why give them melee skills at all.
While the HR has hybrid gameplay elements, the Paragon paths are not set up for a true hybrid build. You have to go so far into both the Archery and Combat trees that you would have to give up both capstone feats. Like with pretty much all other classes you have to pick one of the three trees and go with that playstyle. If you major in the Archery tree you will never pick up enough melee attack or defence/deflect to be viable.
What you have seen is most likely Combat spec HRs. This is the optimal PvP build but is pretty useless in PvE. For those of us who play both, Archery is the build that has most utility in either at the same time. And a large part of Archery, as in any other game, is roots/snares/interrupts.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Your 'solution' of having everyone just build PVP exclusive toons with the build you like is frankly laughable.
refers to the folow up post i made after that particular post.\
but thats just it this topic is not about PVE situations, I acknowledge the issues with PVe, but to be fair HR isnt the only class you have to have one or the other,
DC comes to mind with the PVP spec builds, or CWs doing straight up PVP builds, HR builds are no different in that respect, hell even sentinal GWFs build for PVE only cant pvp worth a **** against a PVP built HR wouldn't even be a fair fight, unstoppable, then what sure some prone attack but point is its a pvp topic clearly ,, and don't get me wrong I am hearing what you are saying too, Allot play both on the same toon, but honestly its clearly by ultimate choice because PVP gives just as much and sometimes more XP than Questing or foundrying up your toon , might be slower but so what, get to level 60 too fast and then what? your 60 woohoo! ( sarcasm) .
and you know roots wouldn't even be a problem if they were effect by the same immunity as any other CC like effect. but Roots is this unavoidable you cant dodge it you cant avoid it if its there, its just there,
Sorry I missed this post, you know situationally, thats fine, i can understand situationally and in A true team Vs team work situation thats all we all would do is help out our buds in combat, and for that I wouldnt hate you for, but My standing is on the matter of those who intentionally go kill steal blood ,, or something crooked as that. And trust me you guys may not see this but in pug matches i see this CONSTANTLY. and grant this is a defunct issue because domination is a team player sport ,, but aint no team playing when your a pug who has people who cant even understand your language and your up against people who on team speak together saying hey lets just kill them fast and get it over with. cause we like being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to pugs. Point is HRs in this situation, do dishonors and kill steal from their teammates or as some have obviously pointed out do so intentionally just because they dont like the class or whatever, and I feel like a broken record but rooting would not be an issue at all, if i could break them. or they had a short time span on which they last ,, as a rogue it takes away my defence ,, dodgeign and stealthing if im in one spot well im at a useless and helpless point if their teams around GWFs usually or GFs who use you for table tennis practice. had that happen too ,,, two gfs bouncing me from one end of the node to the other timing their knocks out perfectly where it was constant till i was dead ,, which wouldnt have happened if i wasnt rooted and could maintain distance to regen health back to defend myself.
LOL or worse when its two GF a GWF their cleric and HR like a certain match last night where my team suddenly ran off and i was stuck in a 5 v 1 situation.
I would love to see some people walk a couple matches in my shoes sometimes. HR rooting makes a bad situation THAT MUCH WORSE.
yeah and rooting is really thee one and only issue i even have with HRs ,,, that and the fact some of their skills that plant **** on the nods tend attack your with their weapon enchants damage ,, which to be honest makes no sense to me,,, but im not gonna hate on that too much. rooting just gets me in more bad situations than any any any thing else ,,,, unless the OP gwf catches me off cooldowns, then Im chopped liver. but other than that ,, no problems with the HR at all ,,, in fact i think in PVE ,, the Hr is lacking so PVe its a totally different opinion and i welcome rooting,,,, in pvp ,,, I hate it with an upscaled passion.
1. They are a very popular class right now, some of them are VERY bad...
2. Getting into a pug with Two Hrs with 7k gear scores is a bad thing.. its a insta loss for your side most of the time.
3. They fill a niche, but its a pretty small one and it becomes quickly redundant with more then one HR, unless you are facing similar equations on the other side.. However, similar GS GWF's and TRs on one side vs Similiar Scores HRs on the other, doesnt help you win glory. If you just want to sit back and top kill charts, I guess that matters to some. My favority thing as a DC is see them ghost away.. as if dying mattered at all!
You can build an HR with a lot more survivability than people realize, while still maintaining very good burst damage. I run 30K HPs, 2500 defense, and I am rarely afriad to stick on a point or rush into skirmishes on a point. I also use the pvp set for the run boost and have over 30% run speed. Combined with all the shifts/didges HRs get, I manage to help hold and takes caps very well. I don't even use roots most of the time unless I have a CW teammate in a premade, to help protect them.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Most of the shiny new HR players wanted to be Legolas and so Archer builds are over-represented. It's an easy build to level and play in PvE and also works well in Sharandar/DR. It's much tougher to make work in PvP - I'm on my third respec and I'm still not getting it quite right. I may have to bite the bullet and respec to Combat, but I already have plenty of melee toons so I'm reluctant to just give up on ranged...:(
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Now when counter is here lets QQ about it, just wonder why dcs and cws dont complain that much versus archer build HRs.
Ohh wait, they kill them (sooner or later)... u see what i did thar -_-
Like some1 mention rarely i see a melle abillity which is far more dangerous but still bugged. Why they do r bugged. Because the way i play i manage to dodge 70% of abbilities. So i dont see a reason, why HR should find himself near me when basically i just dodge his abillity.
But thats smtgh that is confirmed. It's just a bug. I guess they will fix it. Prolly in one year, based on fact how much bugs arent fixed since release time.
The thing i cant figure out is how roots applies to me when the hit my bite n im 5 feet away from it already? Or how do they appllie to me when im stealthed 5 feet away from GWF that roots actually hit?
But the most annoying thing is an entangle ****. Wraps around u n ur stunned for half of a second even when u dodge the root, n somehow they didnt apllied, or manage to run from it range. Like thats not enough it happens 3 time in a row (every 2 sec?) on one root arrow!
I know TR n GWF r OP. I get ur frustration about this topic but here's smtgh u must understand. Right now due to the bug, n ONLY because of it. ( Which will be fixed since devs acknowledge it ) HR > TR > GWF/GF > CW > DC. After roots r fixed: TR > GWF/GF > HR > CW > DC.
If u have problem against any class it is only because u do not understand HR full potential. U do not know how to chain skills, n create combos. Prolly also u do not understand how to deal with each class n that it should be done separately.
That's funny you should mention that, because a tr would try to tell someone they should make an hr a certain way. The fact is, hr's MAY be able to be made hybrid. Do you look at the paragon paths at all?! Archery(prime bow/arrow), Combat(prime blades), Nature(hybrid/buffs). To tell hr's that they should follow the path you want them to is pretty base, and an easy way out for you. It's funny because ive played since beta, and 99% of the tr's I run across(still) are only and purely permastealth based. Why don't you guys(tr's) roll anything besides permastealth, then come back to me about running 1 specific setup, as opposed to the fact that you guys have 2 possible paragon setups(mi/wk), yet they still can both run permastealth.
You want me to lay your class across the table?! Fine...
First off, you have the ability to be invisible PERMANENTLY... how can that go wrong? you can sneak your chicken *** around someone fighting, around someone capping, and backstab them for your kill steal... which I see 99% of the time from you chickens.
Second off, you have the ability to be IMMUNE TO DAMAGE... ITC is the single most OP ability you have(counting single abilities vs using a combo(permastealth)).
Thirdly, saying that hr's take the lazy way out, from a class that still has 1 build almost everyone uses, and its been that way since beta, is funny. Permastealth has existed in beta, if people should learn to not take the easy way out, why is 1 of the starting classes STILL using its OP build?
You want more people on your side? reroll your trickster rogue for damage, NO STEALTHING AT ALL, and no ITC... then we can talk about how annoying 1 ability that hr's have. Its funny cuz ive seen most hr's use roots, and it doesn't annoy me at all... but I see EVERY tr use stealth. And before you go all "waaah, its our class specialty"... tough... you have ways of making that OP. When I see an enemy rooted, does it also do damage to them? No, it keeps them in one spot. Tr's have teleports, invisibility, immortal abilities, and dazing abilities. No other class has that much to offer in their class, so I really don't sympathize with your whining. Rangers have 1 of 3 ways to go right now, and although most go archery, some use the other types. Im cool w/ whatever a ranger does in pvp... im even cool w/ a CLASS WAY OLDER doing only 1 thing(permastealth)... but im not cool with whining coming from that hypocritical class.
And I have obliterated EVERY hunter ranger ive come across in pvp, if I can get within melee range... you should walk a minute in other people's shoes, before throwing a tantrum about what some people run across. Rangers no matter how well geared cant face tank things that the other melees(gf/gwf/tr) can.
Here's the Sraight up Facts your class is a perma-invisible, immortal at times, ks'ing chicken... learn to play something other than that.
even legolas used his daggers he didnt just shoot absolutely everything.
I agree with that entirely... my ranger also uses the archery path, but specced for hybrid/combat if need be(love aspect of the serpent switching + those 2 feats that are for stance switching, cant remember them atm). When im in pvp, I tend to switch depending on party composition. If theres no melee(hr's,tr's(don't count them as melee, see above post), cw's, dc's, I switch to running melee. If theres melee on the ground, I switch to a support role. I don't go for kill steals, I go for helping teammates(for example, rooting a tr running away... once again, post above). The versatility I see that rangers can do is pretty cool, but in the end, most shoot more than cut... once again, legolas can pull out his daggers, but what does he use 85-95% of the time?
Thing is, the class is new. You cant harsh on the class having 1 major game breaking mechanic, when the other classes have more to offer, and are older, but I still see the majority of gwf's running steamroller, or virtually ALL tr's running permastealth. The tr's are just pissed cuz now theres a class that can potentially do the annoying thing they've done all this time better. Like I said, I main a gwf and an hr, but playing pvp equally from both of those, I run into too many permastealth rogues to sympathize with this guys' complaints.
Even when roots is fixed hr will still be able to fight effectively as they are now it will just not go through unstoppable and immunity which is how game works normally all those things wear off and roots will be able to be used then.
just pains me that 1 class does 1 thing that can stop "unstoppable" and defend against permastealth, and people throw ridiculous tantrums about it... its not like the roots do awesome damage, or can hold someone permanently, you know?
At least this has been addressed by the devs, and the roots are fixed in preview server.
Players should be more angry against the unbalanced gwf build that lets them tank better then the supposed tank (GF), and that can take on an entire team on their own. This has not been addressed by devs and no fix is in sight.
Funny how the roots bug actually did more to balance pvp than the devs have done.
As for HRs not fighting on point, IN hotenow i tend to eb at a distance as it's the smaller of the two maps. At point 2, a gwf,tr or a gf can easily reach you with an encounter and you have less room to manuever. So i beleive pklaying at a distance in that maop is better.
As for the other pvp map, i tend to fight on cap, more room to manuever.
about the roots actually balancing more, yea I agree... but god forbid the 2 most OP classes in pvp(tr&gwf) have anything to counter them... bunch of whine babies, in my opinion. when I pvp, I support my teammates, cap if im the toughest thing there(which I shouldn't be anyway). asking an hr or cw to be on cap is like asking a gf or gwf(not going to mention tr's, cuz I still see them chicken out on caps) to not be on cap.
Archery Ranger is kind of meh, if your Front-line is not as strong as theirs you would eventually lose the game since you can't be on point constantly, you have to kite. I have seen many games the HR do really well in K/D ratio but his team lose regardless because we kill them on point before the HR deal enough dps, also he is busy dealing with who ever is gap closing him.
The biggest issue with HR is it is really vulnerable when the enemy has 2 cw while your team has a weak one or none. Icy Ray destroy HR it is like guarantee death if you have not build enough HP/defensive stat since you get instant focused.
Overall, good Job on this class Dev, it is quite fun.
Seriously, if you want to complain about HR, you should also be complaining about GWF & TR.
That being said the root ability is bugged, not sure if they even fixed the bug yet that lets HRs keep root permanent.
Seriously, if you want to complain about HR, you should also be complaining about GWF & TR....though HR may be replacing TR as the second best class.
That being said the root ability is bugged, not sure if they even fixed the bug yet that lets HRs keep root permanent.
you know what,, I think it's wise to put the proof in the pudding, I will get back to this argument after i do one said HR build using methods I will experiment with to achieve what I think might prove my theories, then if i do prove them ,, and its battle tested and earned its so called respects. Ill post the build with an invite for you to say ,,, *I stand corrected* ,,, if i don't prove my theory right, and my experiments prove wrong, i will gladly come on here and say ,, i was wrong. till then ,, I suppose its a matter of proving grounds.
with that said, heres a challenge for you, build a stealth rogue, but only use lesser (be it vorp, bile whatever) like i do on my rogue. in fact do snows build its a fantastic build for the rogue ,, right here in the forums. and do nothing but rank 7 at highest in your slots, Rank 7 silvery in all your offence, and Radiants in your defense, nothing else, except movement speeds in utility slots, then call me a chicken **** partner, I'm far from a chicken **** and Ill 1v1 anyone any day, including GWfs, might get my *** kicked, but ah be damned if I will ever be one to be called chickens **** He who decides to shoot roots from a distance and only when 3 other people are on the opponent, I have found myself in bad sitations more times because I also run in purely PUGs, not one match since i hit 60 on the Int rogue have i ran in a guild or premade, so Im on my own and 9 times out of ten Im fighting 3 maybe 4 people, you start doing that and not die. then call me a chicken ****.
if i wanted more damage i get on my STr/dex rogue, which is a damage DPs machine, that challenge was for them because they strictly called me a chicken ****, so I challenge them to run my setup and still call me a chicken **** ,,,
my stats just to give you an idea here
without campfire buff is on My pvp rogue....
17 str
21con
20dex
19int
14wiz
16cha
this build i can solo anyof the dread ring stuff, shar stuff just can't do epics because I am not permastealth Im semi perma,
I built this toon for fun in pvp only, it was leveled in pvp only ,, never did a quest or foundry leveling up on it past level 10.
the point is here this toon was made for pvp, its budget rogue , I have a lesser vorpal, a less soulforge
rank 7 silverys rank 6 radiants, and rank 6 dark in utilities, I have only 2 artifacts and they are blue not purple.
I want that particular person callin me a chicken **** to play with my setup in strictly Pugs ,, then call me a chicken **** ,,,
For all other skills HR need to be hybrid because they do half dmg because oblivious reason of 6 encounters but not 3 as other classes. So if someone HR can think that he can do only range/close_range skills he will use only half from HR's potential.
From other side most of HR's encounters are broken and/or do not work well. But yes the HR is playable class and can do not a little.
You just need to find your combo/skills.