First, let me clarify, my experience is with a guild group.
We are not weak by any means. If you want to judge by gear score you are talking a minimum GS of 12K an upper GS of maybe 15K depending on the group. And while many of you may assume because I am a moderator I don't play the game as much or I am not a very good player you couldn't be more wrong. I keep saying it but I really need to try to record myself playing one of these days to debunk that assumption. -.-
So what's our issue? Well I am assuming the term rainbow means no duplicate classes and that is what we suffer through. Not because we have to. I mean we could be rather elitist and cold and say we need a healer, TR and 3 CW's and if you aren't one of those classes you can't come. We don't do that. We try to beat the game with as few to no duplicates if possible.
If you are saying content is easy due to stacks of CW's (two or more) please do everybody a favor and stop misleading the developers. If you want to make things harder then don't stack control wizards. That's what my guild does and that is what the game is supposed to be balanced for.
It has nothing to do with map awareness. Did you know you can actually time her arrivals? It alternates every thirty seconds. We don't look for her to appear, we know when she appears before she appears.
The difference comes down to team composition. There are still times the GWF can't even run and reach Valindra before a portal appears. All they have to do is run and press a single key and sometimes even that can take longer than the channeling time. What this ultimately means is that every melee fighter you bring is a burden because they can't assist preventing portals and contrary to some beliefs that is a problem.
As for the force choke, that's a bit simpler. It was awesome to assign that to the CW for ease but generally if you all huddled together there was no problem anyway. Why? No travelling time. If a member got choked a fair distance away travelling time often resulted in death.
Why? Melee fighters.
So please, before you say any dungeon is too easy ask yourself, is it too easy because you refuse to bring certain classes?
If so, you are the one making it too easy. If you can take in one of each class and complete the fight without using Slam or Maelstrom then criticism of playskill might be in order, but while I have not had the ability to run MC since the Module 2 changes my experience in MC was several dozen hours of head bashing trying to beat the dungeon without stacking classes, using Slam or Maelstrom.
Feedback: If Slam and malestorm cannot interrupt target(boss or in pvp) then give back they Critt ability cuz both cannot critt not even with eye of the storm or GWF 50% critt chance. For both class was the only reason to choose cuz interrupt boss.
Feedback: Give both class free respec cuz both daly are useless low dmg and wasted 3 skill.
Also i agree 100% with Zebular agan too much change in a name of pvp -->for PVE.
Is there going to be a way to report afk players then? I'm all for the leaver penalty but that will just make people sit afk at the campfire when they start losing. So please also implement a system where you can report afk players and if multiple players on the same team report that person as afk (like a vote kick), then they get booted with the leavers penalty. I say "multiple players" to help prevent a single person from reporting somebody just to be a jerk. Or only have the person get booted if they have not moved after x amount of time or something like that.
report someone for being afk? O_o :v lol...
if you're afk for 10 min you get auto-booted from the server, just sayin'.
so many sloppy, lazy "Fixes" in OP... how about adding some sort of auto-balancing to the queue system so random teams with fresh lvl 60's and 8k gs on slow mounts dont end up having to spend 20 boring minutes getting stomped by pre-made well geared groups of players with perfect enchants, full t2 sets on 110% mounts etc. That's why people are leaving matches and now you want to punish them for not having enough AD for best gear ingame? Great way to encourage p2w.
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dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
Why does the Grym Coins trade in not have a slider so we can sell multiple ones at the same time? The confirmation after buying 1 is annoying as hell when you want to buy a bunch of things with a particular kind of currency. This isn't just an issue with this vendor, but a lot of vendors, for example trading in fomorian concotions for anything besides the potion is all done 1 at a time, and when you have like a 1000 concotions. Or when you have says 100 grym coins.
1) Will your system better handle temporary disconnects. As it stands I will get DCed to login screen and I login and get back to the match in under 2 minutes yet I am booted. As previously stated this will reward me with the leaver penalty. Simply put this is unacceptable!!
This is by far my biggest concern. But on the other hand… I would prefer getting leaver penalty when dc'ed over leavers in PvP!
The fact that you get booted out of the match in 5 sec, once you come back after you dc'ed, is unacceptable. This should be fixed.
Natalinnux the matchmaking system is coming so not having the best gear or the most AD will not be an issue. From what I read searching various forums it will at least in the beginning be partially GS based so it helps separate the BIS vs the people still grinding. Of course if you keep winning it might upgrade you a bit.
Leaver Penalty: I agree with the dev's working on a leaver penalty. The leaver penalty is necessary in some way due to how hard it is to have an even match because of this problem. This isn't just an issue for those who are losing badly. That is at least somewhat understandable. Most of the leaver situations I've noticed were somewhat balanced matches, often times with our team in the lead to suddenly lose control because someone left early. You get leavers due to the match wasn't easy enough. People who want to do the dailys as fast as possible and log while the score is even or winning because it's taking too long. Then you have the leavers that leave almost as soon as the match starts. Its maybe 15 seconds into the match and they get a lashing blade to the face and they instantly quit. Your team may have had a chance. You don't even know because they quit before either team had managed to grab 1 capstone.
Premades: As for premades, most of the Guilds that I have encountered who do premades usually offer 1v1 or counter capping to the opposing team members that refuse to quit. All you have to do is ask and usually they will accept one or the other. If matchmaking is partially based on pvp points scored in matches this could also help separate the leavers from the ones like myself who have a self imposed no quit rule.
Premade vs Premades should have a joint que option however I don't know how hard that would be to code.
PVP vs PVE sets: I also agree with Ayroux on how the pvp vs pve sets work. The pvp sets have slightly reduced stats vs pve sets due to the extra points going towards tenacity. Other than perhaps a little balance tweaking I think this makes sense. You don't need the entire server running pvp dailys to get a piece of gear just to be BIS for pve. This is part of the reason for the leaver issue as is. Also I do not see a reason to force pvp players to run constant pve speed runs in order to get good gear for pvp. If a player wants to predominately play pvp then let them. I think any direction that allows a player to gear up using the aspect of the game they enjoy playing is a good thing.
PVP vs PVE sets: I also agree with Ayroux on how the pvp vs pve sets work. The pvp sets have slightly reduced stats vs pve sets due to the extra points going towards tenacity. Other than perhaps a little balance tweaking I think this makes sense. You don't need the entire server running pvp dailys to get a piece of gear just to be BIS for pve. This is part of the reason for the leaver issue as is. Also I do not see a reason to force pvp players to run constant pve speed runs in order to get good gear for pvp. If a player wants to predominately play pvp then let them. I think any direction that allows a player to gear up using the aspect of the game they enjoy playing is a good thing.
I think an option would be to put the PVP weapons back into the "Set Bonus" with the other pieces of gear. So that if you wear two pieces and have both weapons you can get the 4 piece bonus.
I just feels like such a rip when the weapons not only have the same top end damage as the T2 weapons but also have no weapon set bonus.
I mean I personally am not affected since I have both formorian/fallen dragon sets... But I know I was looking forward to farming pvp weapons and having more options, not it looks like I have no options since they cant even compete with my formorian...
Happy Monday everyone, hope you all had a great weekend and a chance to check out the preview shard! I've relayed some of your concerns to the development team and have come bearing news.
As Offline results from 2 sources only (1. Crash/altf4/taskmgr, 2. connection drop), but case 1 would not remove the players from the match regardless of time, case 2 would still result in the player being unable to return to the match
Thank you for reporting this issue. I have relayed your message to the development team and they are investigating the cause and potential solutions to the disconnect problem.
A temporary vendor, “Gauntlgrym Trader,” has been added to the Trade of Blades.
Players may use this vendor to exchange unwanted Grym Coins for 50 Glory a piece.
Players may use this vendor to exchange Tier 2 PvE “Gauntlgrym” equipment for Tier 2 PvP “Grim” equipment.
Please note that this process cannot be reversed and that all item enchantments will be lost upon exchange.
After speaking with the development team I was able to confirm a few things for all of you regarding the Gauntlgrym Trader.
First and foremost, this vendor will be available on live, however as the patch notes indicate, he will only be available for a limited time. The duration of that availability will be announced at a later date, but it will be long enough for most players to log in and convert their PvE Gauntlgrym set to one of the new PvP sets, should they desire.
Secondly, while the Gauntlgrym trader himself will be temporary, the ability to exchange Grym Coins for Glory will continue to be available at the vendor in Gauntlgrym proper. So for those of you looking to get a headstart on your PvP gear through PvE content before you jump into matches, that avenue will remain open.
Control Wizard: Maelstrom of Chaos: Fixed a bug allowing power to stun control immune targets.
Great Weapon Fighter: Slam: Fixed a bug allowing Slam to interupt bosses and control immune players.
In live MMO development there's always a backlog of issues that need to be triaged and fixed in order of priority. However, when a developer is already working on a system, this is often the perfect opportunity to fix any outstanding bugs it might have.
That's the case with the powers in question here. Rest assured that this is not a case of powers being rebalanced for PvP. Slam and Maelstrom's effects were not working as intended and this was allowing players to circumvent a number of boss encounter mechanics.
If you feel that the powers themselves are too weak when working as designed, or that certain encounters have become too difficult as an effect of this change, please continue to provide that feedback!
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dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Secondly, while the Gauntlgrym trader himself will be temporary, the ability to exchange Grym Coins for Glory will continue to be available at the vendor in Gauntlgrym proper. So for those of you looking to get a headstart on your PvP gear through PvE content before you jump into matches, that avenue will remain open.
Then can you guys make it so we can trade in multiple coins at a time instead of having to buy one, confirm you want to buy it and repeat until you spent all the coins you wants to convert to glory?
After speaking with the development team I was able to confirm a few things for all of you regarding the Gauntlgrym Trader.
First and foremost, this vendor will be available on live, however as the patch notes indicate, he will only be available for a limited time. The duration of that availability will be announced at a later date, but it will be long enough for most players to log in and convert their PvE Gauntlgrym set to one of the new PvP sets, should they desire.
Secondly, while the Gauntlgrym trader himself will be temporary, the ability to exchange Grym Coins for Glory will continue to be available at the vendor in Gauntlgrym proper. So for those of you looking to get a headstart on your PvP gear through PvE content before you jump into matches, that avenue will remain open.
IIRC Valindra in MC has something like 50-60k HPs. That's not much. An ok rogue can do that under 10s (and he's probably walking to the other end of the room to take that much time). Two CWs with a crit ice knife will despawn her, but I highly recommend the "good TR" option, it's more safe. When someone was choked when my cleric was 11k i could keep people alive for 30s or more. I really don't see the issue with the current changes. On live i can solo her with my wizard - well i used to be able to do that, when he was spellstorm, and he wasn't 15k when i started to be able to do it. How's that supposed to be a boss fight if I can, on my own, handle the most complex part of the fight, which is supposed to be an AFK check for the team? There is absolutely NO challenge killing valindra with pure dps, all you need is people listening to taunts.
If all these complaints are like "OMG i can't cheese that boss and soloing the AFK check while the rest of the team is mindlessly dps-ing the boss and not caring about the environment and sounds", that's lame. You know, if you really want to pug MC, you can use the chat to talk to people before entering the arena, right? And you can tell something like "as long as I don't read everyone telling me they understood how it works i will not start the boss fight", if you have the kind of completely passive-casual-chat-window-closed guy in your team then i suggest a good old kick because a chat window closed is a valuable reason to kick someone in an engdame environment.
Now about the pvp sets:
I have been able to see the cleric ones. One look great, the rest looks meh. While I understand there's a stat budget and that you don't want to make the ultimate pvp set with the best possible stats in one set, currently, most sets aren't attractive. IMO a good design choice would be to make all of them relevant choices. No power on a cleric set? come on, this is our primary stat.
So, here are the sets I don't like and why:
- Grim virtuous (cleric): No power. Power kinda matters for mundane stuff like heals and some damage. Might be worth it if the 4 set bonus was a small debuff (we don't need power to debuff after all) or a tanking bonus, but here, it's just completely pointless. It's supposed to be the tanky set with no damage or healing focus but the set bonus is mostly about healing...
- Grim prophet champion (cleric): well, that good old gauntlgrym set with a new tenacity stat. I'm still not convinced by lifesteal, sharing it via linked spirit migjht be interesting, but i'd trade this for anything else. Arpen would be nice, there's no "dps" cleric pvp set.
- Profound armour of the virtuous: again, no power but a healing 4 pc bonus. Like, we want you to heal better but with this set you can't...
For a cleric, currently at T2 level, grim righteous is a no brainer. With some recovery jewelry and a + recovery set bonus, there's no downside to this set, we can get perfectly balanced stats for pvp. There's power, crit and a defensive stats. What else would we ever need? This one + grim necklace of defiance and grim belt of defiance will provide the best synergy - just because jewelry with power has arpen and lifesteal, and it's pointless at such ridiculously low levels for clerics in pvp (no set with arpen so the pvp battle cleric isn't an option).
On the cleric T2.5 side, there are two options (finally!). Righteous is completely valid, clearly offensive/healbot oriented (), and Faithful is an option, because there's power and even if the crit stat is great for healing, trading it for HP is a completely valid choice. Unfortunately, the profound virtuous isn't an option at all, it's just plainly bad, because crit without power isn't worth it, and +7.5% more healing without power just doesn't make sense. Repurpose souls is nice... in pve. In pvp there's no way it works with only 5 targets at most and team members constantly moving far away from this feat's radius, so this set is just vendor trash currently IMO.
On the bright side, I find the CW set more balanced, all of them have nice offensive stats, and all of them can be a relevant choice. Good job on these ones!
Last, but not least, I'm really concerned about the future of gauntlgrym. This is supposed to be a pvp event, and there are no pvp rewards... The sets are unchanged (why?), and we may turn grim coins into petty amounts of glory. 50 glory for one coin is kinda cheapskate for a 1h30 long event. 7 from pvp, maybe 20 from pve, that makes 1350 glory... That's low, and makes the event not profitable at all, even though the pvp part is great. I just hope you've something in store for gauntlgrym, like a couple of unique artifacts for grim coins, or different pvp sets with new unique bonuses, or, why not, let's dream a bit, a T3 dungeon dropping T3 pvp sets, because currently, on preview, if it's released as is, gauntlgrym will soon become a ghost town.
If you feel that the powers themselves are too weak when working as designed, or that certain encounters have become too difficult as an effect of this change, please continue to provide that feedback!
Thank you for the additional information!
As for Maelstrom of Chaos specifically, it has always been a subpar power thanks to its relatively small AoE and inability to prevent targets close to the caster from simply walking out of range during the lengthy wind-up period.
The fact that Maelstrom could stun Valindra was obviously not intended, and the boss mechanic is fine without it. Unfortunately, though, that was about the only reason to ever put even a single point in that power.
Please no! please!
It's next to impossible to burst down Valindra before she kills the person she is choking.
Furthermore by the time you get to the portal there's next to no time to kill the target.
The only reason this dungeon was possible for maybe anybody besides the most elite of the elite players were because of this "bug."
Please do not put this live before re-evaluating the challenge of this dungeon!
Maelstrom/slam were bugged and deserved to be fixed. However I think valindra should be squishier. You need a very coordinated and well geared group at the moment to most likely get blue junk, or if something does drop it'll be the gwf or dc OH. That was an amazingly bad idea in the first place as what's the point in helping those classes out, might as well skip the boss as it just isn't worth the time. It discourages team play. Ideally better there should at least be salvage stuff added, although I'm not sure that will still make people want to do 2/3 as those that want to farm it will want fragments or the artifact from malabog.
I think glory has been nerfed way too much. It already took a while to farm 24k glory. They seem to have implemented a leaver system and making the reason why a lot of them quit worse. They left because:
1) If they don't get enough score which can happen against a team that way outgears your team, they won't get any glory whatso ever.
2) If they did get enough score, they wouldn't get a lot of glory for the loss anyway.
I hoping it's possible to get multiple pvp seals.
You still need to address really big issues though:
1) In CN if 2 people open the same door at the same time, the door will close and they can't progress.
2) In VT if the group dies after the first boss after opening the leaver for the next area, an invisible wall blocks them from reentering meaning they also can't progress.
I'd also like ToS spider healing nerfed because it's pretty OP, but you can't have everything.
I want to detail out the GF gear feedback from my experience testing the tenacity stat on the PTR along with a few suggestions to consider that would help balance out alot of the gear options.
[Profound Conqueror]
+255 Power
+255 Recovery
+423 Defense
+120 Deflect
+167 Tenacity
- This set is pretty decent. It has alot of power stacking with defense and a little deflection. It is clearly a mimic of the PVE [Timeless Hero]
+279 Power
+279 Recovery
+423 Defense
+126 Deflect
The big difference however is that the [Profound Conqueror] set bonus is defense, where the [Timeless Hero] is deflect. Also, the 4 piece set bonus on Timeless grants crit, while the Conqueror is just guard meter and run speed.
OVERALL: the lack of deflect/regen/HP on the set makes it really hard to choose but the potential damage output seems nice. It just doesnt seem that you can make up for almost no defense with these stats, where as on the PVE version you get the deflect bonus which helped balance the set nicely.
- This set has also some nice stats but also major holes like the Conqueror set does as well... It has great defense/deflect/regen but no power or HP which makes it really hard to choose. Its clearly a mimic of the PVE set [Grand Regent]
The big difference is that the [Gran Regent] armor gives a 4 piece set bonus that grants 20% of your defense as power - really balancing the set, where the [Profound Preserver] just gives run speed and guard meter.
OVERALL: the lack of HP/Power on the set makes it really hard to choose but the defensive stats seem nice. It just doesnt seem that you can make up for no power with these stats, where as on the PVE version you get the 4 piece power bonus which helped balance the set nicely.
[Profound Tactician]
+479 HP
+120 Power
+255 Recovery
+559 Defense
+167 Tenacity
- This set is the one that confuses me. Its clearly an upgrade of the past PVP gear [Grim Indomitable Champion] but doesnt even have the same stats...
+454 HP
+113 Power
+548 Defense
+251 Deflect
+162 Tenacity
- So upgrading to the T2.5 version of this set makes you lose out on a significant amount of Deflect. Overall the T2 Grim gear seems really nice! The only thing lacking on the set is really Regen, which can be made up other areas. The T2.5 Profound Set has no deflect which is a really key stat for a Guardian Fighter.
OVERALL: the lack of Deflect/Regen on the set makes it really hard to choose. It just doesnt seem that you can make up for no Deflect with these stats, where as on the T2 Grim version you get really nice deflect on each piece the 4 piece
I think there are MANY ways to fix the lack of gear choice and I will lay them out here (note: I am only detailing the GF gear, but it seems many other classes fall into the same issues above)
Solution 1: Enable the PVP Weapons back into part of the set. Meaning that if you equip both weapons AND two pieces of gear, you can effectively have the 4 piece set bonus. This enables people to run ANOTHER 2 piece set of PVP gear and make up for weak areas in their "Base" Set.
Example: [Profound Conqueror] lacks deflect/hp/regen. But using the Conqueror weapons into the set bonus, you could then pick up 2 pieces in [Profound Preserver] gear and get healthy deflect/regen from that gear.
Solution 2: Revamp the 2 Piece set bonuses for each gear set to be more like their counter parts.
Example: [Profound Conqueror] equivalent is [Timeless Hero] so make the 2 piece set bonus equal deflect.
Solution 3: Enable Set bonus "Sharing" for all the PVP gear.
Example: Meaning you could in theory have 2x[Profound Conqueror] and 1x[Profound Tactician] and 1x[Profound Preserver] and get the 4 piece bonus.
All of the solutions above you give alot more gear choice with the armor sets. I wont go into the rings/neck/belt issue but those stats are VERY underwhelming to the point of almost not being worth using at all.
I hope you consider the points above since as of right now the T2 [Grim Indomitable Champion] is the best setup only really lacking in Regen, however you cannot upgrade any pieces of the set.
Also, with weapons not having any set bonus by themselves OR even as a whole with the gear, it makes them almost worthless as well. Trying to drop from a formorian weapon set, to the T2.5 weapons makes you lose on so much weapon damage/Power AND the set bonus its just not even worth considering....
Thank you for reporting this issue. I have relayed your message to the development team and they are investigating the cause and potential solutions to the disconnect problem.
You should delay the leaver penalty.
First, release the Elo Ranking system, and let it run for at least a month or two.
During this time, fix every crash, disconnect, and other issue which can negatively impact the Leaver penalty.
Then, once Elo is established, and the disconnect issues are resolved, you can evaluate a Leaver penalty which would then appropriately be balanced. You may find that after Elo and crash/discon fixes, the leaving issue isn't as bad and a lower penalty or even a different penalty may be more appropriate.
I find most of the tank sets pretty neat and all have strengths and downsides. I'm not convinced the devs should make a GF pvp set with no downside, gods know how much OP this class is in pvp right now (with GWF), but it's up to them.
I find most of the tank sets pretty neat and all have strengths and downsides. I'm not convinced the devs should make a GF pvp set with no downside, gods know how much OP this class is in pvp right now (with GWF), but it's up to them.
Well Maybe I didnt lay this out clear enough but it not just that the sets shouldnt have tradeoffs, its that there is a clear "balance" from all the PVE sets that is NOT seen in the PVP counterparts...
The Timeless set lacks deflect, but the set bonus makes that up. The PVP equiv doesnt do that.
The Regents lacks power but the set bonus makes that up. The PVP equiv doesnt do that.
The T2 PVP set has everything you could really ask for (except regen). The 2.5 equiv doesnt do that - replaced deflect.
Sure the Conqueror set lacks defensive stats and as it should! But lacking balance is pretty big...
Sure the Preserver Set SHOULD lack power... but THAT much?!
Sure the Tactician set is more a "balance" approach but it has no deflect now... where as the T2 has it...
I can go into the GWF sets as well and layout why the T2.5 sets are worse than the T2 sets... but thats another issue.
I am merely pointing out the "balance" they put into the PVE sets doesnt exist in the PVP set and the T2 SET > the T2.5 sets...
Basically forcing everyone into <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> spec...
It would be nice to see a real viable upgrade or set in the T2.5 category and also viable weapons... Its not like I am asking for a massive GF buff, just that the same balance should apply to the pvp sets for ALL classes (this issue is present in almost all the classes)... Being able to upgrade from the T2 Idom Grim Set to a T2.5 version really wont do much as far as "strength" in pvp, its really more of a "personal issue" item that the "upgrade" is worse...
So again, I never said no downside to these sets. but actually balancing the sets... because it just looks like they took two random sets from PVE gear, ignored the set bonuses (that were intended to balance the sets out) and threw on it the new PVP set bonuses...
the sets are good and equal from where i stand... but what i want to ask, if i have 20% control resist and someone attacks me with pterror, do i get more resistance to his debuff? does p terror debuff has anythin to do with control resist?
the sets are good and equal from where i stand... but what i want to ask, if i have 20% control resist and someone attacks me with pterror, do i get more resistance to his debuff? does p terror debuff has anythin to do with control resist?
From my opinion you make a huge mistake.
You strafe the guys leaving the pvp domination(not all but some) because you were not able to split
the pvp domination compared to the strongness of the players.
I saw guys with a gearscore of 7.5k in pvp and really hard enemy i think with round about 15-16k
So before you give penalties, you should first split the pvp after gs or something else.
It is your mistake and you try to solve it from the wrong side.
If the pvp is splittet regarding gs and there are always leaver so in this case its
correct to give a penalty and from my opinion your penalty is much too low.
Well Maybe I didnt lay this out clear enough but it not just that the sets shouldnt have tradeoffs, its that there is a clear "balance" from all the PVE sets that is NOT seen in the PVP counterparts...
The Timeless set lacks deflect, but the set bonus makes that up. The PVP equiv doesnt do that.
The Regents lacks power but the set bonus makes that up. The PVP equiv doesnt do that.
The T2 PVP set has everything you could really ask for (except regen). The 2.5 equiv doesnt do that - replaced deflect.
Sure the Conqueror set lacks defensive stats and as it should! But lacking balance is pretty big...
Sure the Preserver Set SHOULD lack power... but THAT much?!
Sure the Tactician set is more a "balance" approach but it has no deflect now... where as the T2 has it...
I can go into the GWF sets as well and layout why the T2.5 sets are worse than the T2 sets... but thats another issue.
I am merely pointing out the "balance" they put into the PVE sets doesnt exist in the PVP set and the T2 SET > the T2.5 sets...
Basically forcing everyone into <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> spec...
It would be nice to see a real viable upgrade or set in the T2.5 category and also viable weapons... Its not like I am asking for a massive GF buff, just that the same balance should apply to the pvp sets for ALL classes (this issue is present in almost all the classes)... Being able to upgrade from the T2 Idom Grim Set to a T2.5 version really wont do much as far as "strength" in pvp, its really more of a "personal issue" item that the "upgrade" is worse...
So again, I never said no downside to these sets. but actually balancing the sets... because it just looks like they took two random sets from PVE gear, ignored the set bonuses (that were intended to balance the sets out) and threw on it the new PVP set bonuses...
Ok I understand your point.
Now here is my guess: they're giving the most powerful pvp classes sets with downsides, and the weakest pvp classes (like, wizards) good sets with balanced stats. It's their way to address blatant pvp balance issues, instead of nerfing the class, with all the tears and outcry it would bring on the forums, they give subpar gear, which is a lot more acceptable way to "nerf" these too powerful classes. They don't change powers and spells but won't release sets with OMGWTF stats. In other words, they want tanks to either tank or do significant damage in pvp, according to my (admittedly rather limited) understanding of that class. But both? No way.
Of course no dev will ever confirm this, because it would be similar to admitting they *are* nerfing GFs and GWFs in pvp, and it would be quoted until death ensues, but, you know, it does make sense. At least to me. I hope it makes sense for you too.
Now I'd be curious to see what the devs think about clerics and pvp, because there are obviously 3 great sets and 3 lousy ones.
I hope this reaches a developer, so I will keep it short and focussed on bugs near the PvP changes that apply to a huge amount of players.
Please fix:
almost all cleric powers as they don't use armor penetration.
almost all damaging Campaign-Boons as they don't use armor penetration, especially the Dread Ring ones.
the dwarfian racial feats Stand Your Ground and Cast Iron Stomach, they don't do anything in PvE and rarely functioning as discribed in PvP.
If soulforge procs in PVE it usually turns the bonus companion stats off (i.e. cat and stone) till I die and respawn or until I resummon the companion after the fight.
On soulforge procs PvP and PvE there is 1-1.5 second window where the character is completely paralysed meaning unable to do anything. If you change the duration of the stand-up-animation this can be fixed by that, I guess.
If you need more information on this it can be found in the forums (I guess in every language), via Communitymangers, in the inGame Bug reports, ask the Ticket-Solvers or ask players or test it via protocol-chat-tab or analyse the combat-log and of course you can ask me. A fix of these would make a lot of players happy, imo, as some of these mentioned bugs are in the game for a long time if not since launch.
Update 2/7 11:40am PST: We have identified a disconnect issue that can occur while queuing. We will be making a fix and attempting to update the Preview server before end of day targeting around 6pm PST so this issue doesn't linger over the weekend.
This will be posted to Preview around 4pm PST.
Please fix join pvp queue bug that does not put you in party and forces you to leave the map!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO we don't get penalty because of bug! And please increase leaver penalty to 1 hour.
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venom0619Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited February 2014
After acquiring 4 crystal raven skulls on 4 different characters, here's the major bullet points that need fixing:
LAG (this goes for PVE as well, rubberbanding is terrible, fix the netcode with shift+move too, missing 1 packet sends me flying back)
Broken stealth mechanics - When I play rogue, I see people flinging spells across the map at me while I'm stealthed (no lantern could ever see that far), while sometimes I see other rogues -sitting on top of me slapping me with melee-, and I STILL CANT SEE THEM.
Broken reward system - Oh, I get to stay here for 10 minutes for 0 glory cause I have no team? Fantastic... better yet, 20 minute matches only reward the losing team 200 glory, while the winner gets 800? You wonder why people leave games like crazy?
Adding a leaver penalty is good, but only after you fix the above, otherwise you just cause more grief for players.
And of course matchmaking, which you already know about. But yea... seeing 2 gwf + gf + dc vs tr/cw/hr is already a guaranteed loss at equal gs. Since you have 3 tanks camping all 3 points. Why didn't the squishy team get at least 1 tank (or 2 since they have a dc)
Oh wow, a time penalty for leaving? Terrible solution.
I'll tell you right now, there are players (not all) who do leave who are just casual pvpers. ANY time penalty will not discourage them, they can wait it out, it's no big deal to them.
If you want to implement a solution to pvp leavers, then hit them where it hurts. The new items ( relic, pvp items) will require a boat load of glory to acquire. So it stands to reason to give a glory penalty against the leavers. Maybe300 (or more) glory per leave. This way, leavers will think twice on leaving, as it would further slow their glory gain and ultimately reaching enough glory in order to gain the items wanted.
Now here is my guess: they're giving the most powerful pvp classes sets with downsides, and the weakest pvp classes (like, wizards) good sets with balanced stats. It's their way to address blatant pvp balance issues, instead of nerfing the class, with all the tears and outcry it would bring on the forums, they give subpar gear, which is a lot more acceptable way to "nerf" these too powerful classes. They don't change powers and spells but won't release sets with OMGWTF stats. In other words, they want tanks to either tank or do significant damage in pvp, according to my (admittedly rather limited) understanding of that class. But both? No way.
Of course no dev will ever confirm this, because it would be similar to admitting they *are* nerfing GFs and GWFs in pvp, and it would be quoted until death ensues, but, you know, it does make sense. At least to me. I hope it makes sense for you too.
Now I'd be curious to see what the devs think about clerics and pvp, because there are obviously 3 great sets and 3 lousy ones.
But thats what im saying is they already HAVE the set... Its the PVP T2 Grim set... Its better than all the T2.5 sets... why?
Also if that were the case, they would fix ARP not working with most of CWs spells... I mean one of their sets is ARP focused but CWs dont even get the benefit from the stat... So why is it there?
All I am saying is the sets for classes seem to be not well balanced, stats were arrived at and then balanced around set bonuses.. If you take away a set bonus it makes the set imbalanced...
The sets were already "tradeoffs" on PVE setup, but with the PVP setup there is no "trade off" the sets just are not good compared to the ONE t2 set.
I tried many combinations with all the sets and literally BY FAR the T2 set is stronger than any other set. All I am asking is for a true tradeoff on the sets... Not just a hands down 1 is better and that 1 happends to be T2 as well...
Same goes for GWF, T2 setup is much stronger than T2.5. Same for TR, same for CW actually as well...
But thats what im saying is they already HAVE the set... Its the PVP T2 Grim set... Its better than all the T2.5 sets... why?
Also if that were the case, they would fix ARP not working with most of CWs spells... I mean one of their sets is ARP focused but CWs dont even get the benefit from the stat... So why is it there?
All I am saying is the sets for classes seem to be not well balanced, stats were arrived at and then balanced around set bonuses.. If you take away a set bonus it makes the set imbalanced...
The sets were already "tradeoffs" on PVE setup, but with the PVP setup there is no "trade off" the sets just are not good compared to the ONE t2 set.
I tried many combinations with all the sets and literally BY FAR the T2 set is stronger than any other set. All I am asking is for a true tradeoff on the sets... Not just a hands down 1 is better and that 1 happends to be T2 as well...
Same goes for GWF, T2 setup is much stronger than T2.5. Same for TR, same for CW actually as well...
Heim is absolutely correct,the new sets are GARBAGE on stat allocation.
As a PvP TR, they are robbing me of the stats I NEEDED to even HOPE to do DAMAGE with the new tenacity.
And with the new set allocation Given for TR..
No armor pen + crit combo's
No HP bonus on any of the T2.5 Sets? Like what the hell? your forcing all TRs to TRY and get damage by rolling complete glass cannon to get some damage. I say try, because even if you role complete glass cannon, you still couldn't hit a viable DPS mark, while having no survivability
Tenacity was one thing, 33% nerf to impact shot damage... on top of tenacity patch, that's a bit insulting
These new TR ""PvP"" (Lol okay.) Sets? That's blatant gimping. Healing depression affecting DC's and making their class useless, Down right stupidity, And with CONTROL Wizards, not being able to CONTROL anymore, whats the point of pvping in this game at all? This makes me wonder if the Developers even pay attention to our Top Tier PvP community.
Because the top community never asked for tenacity. we maybe hinted at a SLIGHT regen nerf, and a MODERATE nerf to gwf damage. BUT most of all we wanted an ELO system, New Maps, and New game types.
Truly bothers me, when I Join a random pug match, and watch how uneducated, and unskilled these players are at the game. This bothers me because the developers are listening to the whines of these people to determine how we play the game.
Brutal Stalker was Perfection for a new T2.5 TR upgrade
the sets they've replaced them with... Im debating wether or not I want to keep my pve skulker set, or if I even want to continue playing the game based on the TERRIBLE hand thats been dealt to DC's and CW's alike
Ayroux made some some solid points here and i hope they get noticed by some of the Dev's.
Without any doubt we can all agree on this: BUILD VARIETY ARE LIMITED TO 3 PER CLASS
The most simple salution to this is if they include the Main-hand , Off-hand in the 4/4 piece set bonus.
This from itself with allow much wider gear a-location possibilities which with satisfy the majority of PvP'ers
As for now the main/off hand weapons are never used by players who pvp and i really dont think someone will bother using them since they do not give u any beneficial stats except for tenacity ( which above 1000 seems a waste ).
So here is the greater use of them > Make them included in the set bonus and ta daaa > many happy players
Please fix join pvp queue bug that does not put you in party and forces you to leave the map!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO we don't get penalty because of bug! And please increase leaver penalty to 1 hour.
We found the cause of this and have a fix going into a build probably tomorrow.
...
Because the top community never asked for tenacity. we maybe hinted at a SLIGHT regen nerf, and a MODERATE nerf to gwf damage. BUT most of all we wanted an ELO system, New Maps, and New game types.
...
Im debating wether or not I want to keep my pve skulker set, or if I even want to continue playing the game based on the TERRIBLE hand thats been dealt to DC's and CW's alike
Also if that were the case, they would fix ARP not working with most of CWs spells... I mean one of their sets is ARP focused but CWs dont even get the benefit from the stat... So why is it there?
Agree on that, in general. Personally, i'd like to see some build variety for CWs. Now people just seems to be stuck with thaumaturge-meatball spamming. For a good bunch of reasons, ofc: 15-20k crits, long prone duration (which blocks target's ability to deflect and use CC-imunity mechanics) and on top of that it's one of the few spells, affected by arpen. Toogud.
Nerfing prone ALONE would be already more than enough to force wizards into mentioned variety, while fixing arpen would instead encourage us into it. But tenacity in its current state is just a bit over the edge.
Personally I really like Tenacity in the game. I have posted that a few times. The things I dislike are the itemization and healing depression (at its current severity)
I still think either the set bonuses or the stats on the Profound gear should change:
1) Conqueror 2pc should be deflect (like Timeless)
2) Presever 2pc should be power (about half the benefit of the PVE Regents 4pc bonus)
3) Tactician 2pc can stay defense, but change recovery back to deflect like the T2 set has.
This brings alot of balance to the sets and makes all of them frankly quite appealing without making either of them too "OP". This type of thing can EASILY be done for all the classes sets...
Then adding in weapons to all the 4/4 set bonuses allows you to run a 4/4 AND a 2/4 if you prefer, really min/maxing stats for those that want to. I know when you guys all first rolled out the PVP set on the PTR it really had nice stats and with weapons in on the set bonus, really helped itemization..
Comments
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?579891-DC-GF-TR-and-HR-quot-Interrupt-quot-Daily-not-affecting-Bosses/page2&highlight=slam
LOL why y say this in first time .
Feedback: If Slam and malestorm cannot interrupt target(boss or in pvp) then give back they Critt ability cuz both cannot critt not even with eye of the storm or GWF 50% critt chance. For both class was the only reason to choose cuz interrupt boss.
Feedback: Give both class free respec cuz both daly are useless low dmg and wasted 3 skill.
Also i agree 100% with Zebular agan too much change in a name of pvp -->for PVE.
report someone for being afk? O_o :v lol...
if you're afk for 10 min you get auto-booted from the server, just sayin'.
so many sloppy, lazy "Fixes" in OP... how about adding some sort of auto-balancing to the queue system so random teams with fresh lvl 60's and 8k gs on slow mounts dont end up having to spend 20 boring minutes getting stomped by pre-made well geared groups of players with perfect enchants, full t2 sets on 110% mounts etc. That's why people are leaving matches and now you want to punish them for not having enough AD for best gear ingame? Great way to encourage p2w.
This is by far my biggest concern. But on the other hand… I would prefer getting leaver penalty when dc'ed over leavers in PvP!
The fact that you get booted out of the match in 5 sec, once you come back after you dc'ed, is unacceptable. This should be fixed.
Leaver Penalty: I agree with the dev's working on a leaver penalty. The leaver penalty is necessary in some way due to how hard it is to have an even match because of this problem. This isn't just an issue for those who are losing badly. That is at least somewhat understandable. Most of the leaver situations I've noticed were somewhat balanced matches, often times with our team in the lead to suddenly lose control because someone left early. You get leavers due to the match wasn't easy enough. People who want to do the dailys as fast as possible and log while the score is even or winning because it's taking too long. Then you have the leavers that leave almost as soon as the match starts. Its maybe 15 seconds into the match and they get a lashing blade to the face and they instantly quit. Your team may have had a chance. You don't even know because they quit before either team had managed to grab 1 capstone.
Premades: As for premades, most of the Guilds that I have encountered who do premades usually offer 1v1 or counter capping to the opposing team members that refuse to quit. All you have to do is ask and usually they will accept one or the other. If matchmaking is partially based on pvp points scored in matches this could also help separate the leavers from the ones like myself who have a self imposed no quit rule.
Premade vs Premades should have a joint que option however I don't know how hard that would be to code.
PVP vs PVE sets: I also agree with Ayroux on how the pvp vs pve sets work. The pvp sets have slightly reduced stats vs pve sets due to the extra points going towards tenacity. Other than perhaps a little balance tweaking I think this makes sense. You don't need the entire server running pvp dailys to get a piece of gear just to be BIS for pve. This is part of the reason for the leaver issue as is. Also I do not see a reason to force pvp players to run constant pve speed runs in order to get good gear for pvp. If a player wants to predominately play pvp then let them. I think any direction that allows a player to gear up using the aspect of the game they enjoy playing is a good thing.
I think an option would be to put the PVP weapons back into the "Set Bonus" with the other pieces of gear. So that if you wear two pieces and have both weapons you can get the 4 piece bonus.
I just feels like such a rip when the weapons not only have the same top end damage as the T2 weapons but also have no weapon set bonus.
I mean I personally am not affected since I have both formorian/fallen dragon sets... But I know I was looking forward to farming pvp weapons and having more options, not it looks like I have no options since they cant even compete with my formorian...
Thank you for reporting this issue. I have relayed your message to the development team and they are investigating the cause and potential solutions to the disconnect problem.
After speaking with the development team I was able to confirm a few things for all of you regarding the Gauntlgrym Trader.
First and foremost, this vendor will be available on live, however as the patch notes indicate, he will only be available for a limited time. The duration of that availability will be announced at a later date, but it will be long enough for most players to log in and convert their PvE Gauntlgrym set to one of the new PvP sets, should they desire.
Secondly, while the Gauntlgrym trader himself will be temporary, the ability to exchange Grym Coins for Glory will continue to be available at the vendor in Gauntlgrym proper. So for those of you looking to get a headstart on your PvP gear through PvE content before you jump into matches, that avenue will remain open.
In live MMO development there's always a backlog of issues that need to be triaged and fixed in order of priority. However, when a developer is already working on a system, this is often the perfect opportunity to fix any outstanding bugs it might have.
That's the case with the powers in question here. Rest assured that this is not a case of powers being rebalanced for PvP. Slam and Maelstrom's effects were not working as intended and this was allowing players to circumvent a number of boss encounter mechanics.
If you feel that the powers themselves are too weak when working as designed, or that certain encounters have become too difficult as an effect of this change, please continue to provide that feedback!
Then can you guys make it so we can trade in multiple coins at a time instead of having to buy one, confirm you want to buy it and repeat until you spent all the coins you wants to convert to glory?
This is outstanding news , thank you so much
If all these complaints are like "OMG i can't cheese that boss and soloing the AFK check while the rest of the team is mindlessly dps-ing the boss and not caring about the environment and sounds", that's lame. You know, if you really want to pug MC, you can use the chat to talk to people before entering the arena, right? And you can tell something like "as long as I don't read everyone telling me they understood how it works i will not start the boss fight", if you have the kind of completely passive-casual-chat-window-closed guy in your team then i suggest a good old kick because a chat window closed is a valuable reason to kick someone in an engdame environment.
Now about the pvp sets:
I have been able to see the cleric ones. One look great, the rest looks meh. While I understand there's a stat budget and that you don't want to make the ultimate pvp set with the best possible stats in one set, currently, most sets aren't attractive. IMO a good design choice would be to make all of them relevant choices. No power on a cleric set? come on, this is our primary stat.
So, here are the sets I don't like and why:
- Grim virtuous (cleric): No power. Power kinda matters for mundane stuff like heals and some damage. Might be worth it if the 4 set bonus was a small debuff (we don't need power to debuff after all) or a tanking bonus, but here, it's just completely pointless. It's supposed to be the tanky set with no damage or healing focus but the set bonus is mostly about healing...
- Grim prophet champion (cleric): well, that good old gauntlgrym set with a new tenacity stat. I'm still not convinced by lifesteal, sharing it via linked spirit migjht be interesting, but i'd trade this for anything else. Arpen would be nice, there's no "dps" cleric pvp set.
- Profound armour of the virtuous: again, no power but a healing 4 pc bonus. Like, we want you to heal better but with this set you can't...
For a cleric, currently at T2 level, grim righteous is a no brainer. With some recovery jewelry and a + recovery set bonus, there's no downside to this set, we can get perfectly balanced stats for pvp. There's power, crit and a defensive stats. What else would we ever need? This one + grim necklace of defiance and grim belt of defiance will provide the best synergy - just because jewelry with power has arpen and lifesteal, and it's pointless at such ridiculously low levels for clerics in pvp (no set with arpen so the pvp battle cleric isn't an option).
On the cleric T2.5 side, there are two options (finally!). Righteous is completely valid, clearly offensive/healbot oriented (
On the bright side, I find the CW set more balanced, all of them have nice offensive stats, and all of them can be a relevant choice. Good job on these ones!
Last, but not least, I'm really concerned about the future of gauntlgrym. This is supposed to be a pvp event, and there are no pvp rewards... The sets are unchanged (why?), and we may turn grim coins into petty amounts of glory. 50 glory for one coin is kinda cheapskate for a 1h30 long event. 7 from pvp, maybe 20 from pve, that makes 1350 glory... That's low, and makes the event not profitable at all, even though the pvp part is great. I just hope you've something in store for gauntlgrym, like a couple of unique artifacts for grim coins, or different pvp sets with new unique bonuses, or, why not, let's dream a bit, a T3 dungeon dropping T3 pvp sets, because currently, on preview, if it's released as is, gauntlgrym will soon become a ghost town.
Thank you for the additional information!
As for Maelstrom of Chaos specifically, it has always been a subpar power thanks to its relatively small AoE and inability to prevent targets close to the caster from simply walking out of range during the lengthy wind-up period.
The fact that Maelstrom could stun Valindra was obviously not intended, and the boss mechanic is fine without it. Unfortunately, though, that was about the only reason to ever put even a single point in that power.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Maelstrom/slam were bugged and deserved to be fixed. However I think valindra should be squishier. You need a very coordinated and well geared group at the moment to most likely get blue junk, or if something does drop it'll be the gwf or dc OH. That was an amazingly bad idea in the first place as what's the point in helping those classes out, might as well skip the boss as it just isn't worth the time. It discourages team play. Ideally better there should at least be salvage stuff added, although I'm not sure that will still make people want to do 2/3 as those that want to farm it will want fragments or the artifact from malabog.
I think glory has been nerfed way too much. It already took a while to farm 24k glory. They seem to have implemented a leaver system and making the reason why a lot of them quit worse. They left because:
1) If they don't get enough score which can happen against a team that way outgears your team, they won't get any glory whatso ever.
2) If they did get enough score, they wouldn't get a lot of glory for the loss anyway.
I hoping it's possible to get multiple pvp seals.
You still need to address really big issues though:
1) In CN if 2 people open the same door at the same time, the door will close and they can't progress.
2) In VT if the group dies after the first boss after opening the leaver for the next area, an invisible wall blocks them from reentering meaning they also can't progress.
I'd also like ToS spider healing nerfed because it's pretty OP, but you can't have everything.
I want to detail out the GF gear feedback from my experience testing the tenacity stat on the PTR along with a few suggestions to consider that would help balance out alot of the gear options.
[Profound Conqueror]
+255 Power
+255 Recovery
+423 Defense
+120 Deflect
+167 Tenacity
- This set is pretty decent. It has alot of power stacking with defense and a little deflection. It is clearly a mimic of the PVE [Timeless Hero]
+279 Power
+279 Recovery
+423 Defense
+126 Deflect
The big difference however is that the [Profound Conqueror] set bonus is defense, where the [Timeless Hero] is deflect. Also, the 4 piece set bonus on Timeless grants crit, while the Conqueror is just guard meter and run speed.
OVERALL: the lack of deflect/regen/HP on the set makes it really hard to choose but the potential damage output seems nice. It just doesnt seem that you can make up for almost no defense with these stats, where as on the PVE version you get the deflect bonus which helped balance the set nicely.
[Profound Preserver]
+120 Recovery
+559 Defense
+255 Deflect
+120 Regen
- This set has also some nice stats but also major holes like the Conqueror set does as well... It has great defense/deflect/regen but no power or HP which makes it really hard to choose. Its clearly a mimic of the PVE set [Grand Regent]
+126 Recovery
+576 Defense
+279 Deflect
+126 Regen
The big difference is that the [Gran Regent] armor gives a 4 piece set bonus that grants 20% of your defense as power - really balancing the set, where the [Profound Preserver] just gives run speed and guard meter.
OVERALL: the lack of HP/Power on the set makes it really hard to choose but the defensive stats seem nice. It just doesnt seem that you can make up for no power with these stats, where as on the PVE version you get the 4 piece power bonus which helped balance the set nicely.
[Profound Tactician]
+479 HP
+120 Power
+255 Recovery
+559 Defense
+167 Tenacity
- This set is the one that confuses me. Its clearly an upgrade of the past PVP gear [Grim Indomitable Champion] but doesnt even have the same stats...
+454 HP
+113 Power
+548 Defense
+251 Deflect
+162 Tenacity
- So upgrading to the T2.5 version of this set makes you lose out on a significant amount of Deflect. Overall the T2 Grim gear seems really nice! The only thing lacking on the set is really Regen, which can be made up other areas. The T2.5 Profound Set has no deflect which is a really key stat for a Guardian Fighter.
OVERALL: the lack of Deflect/Regen on the set makes it really hard to choose. It just doesnt seem that you can make up for no Deflect with these stats, where as on the T2 Grim version you get really nice deflect on each piece the 4 piece
I think there are MANY ways to fix the lack of gear choice and I will lay them out here (note: I am only detailing the GF gear, but it seems many other classes fall into the same issues above)
Solution 1: Enable the PVP Weapons back into part of the set. Meaning that if you equip both weapons AND two pieces of gear, you can effectively have the 4 piece set bonus. This enables people to run ANOTHER 2 piece set of PVP gear and make up for weak areas in their "Base" Set.
Example: [Profound Conqueror] lacks deflect/hp/regen. But using the Conqueror weapons into the set bonus, you could then pick up 2 pieces in [Profound Preserver] gear and get healthy deflect/regen from that gear.
Solution 2: Revamp the 2 Piece set bonuses for each gear set to be more like their counter parts.
Example: [Profound Conqueror] equivalent is [Timeless Hero] so make the 2 piece set bonus equal deflect.
Solution 3: Enable Set bonus "Sharing" for all the PVP gear.
Example: Meaning you could in theory have 2x[Profound Conqueror] and 1x[Profound Tactician] and 1x[Profound Preserver] and get the 4 piece bonus.
All of the solutions above you give alot more gear choice with the armor sets. I wont go into the rings/neck/belt issue but those stats are VERY underwhelming to the point of almost not being worth using at all.
I hope you consider the points above since as of right now the T2 [Grim Indomitable Champion] is the best setup only really lacking in Regen, however you cannot upgrade any pieces of the set.
Also, with weapons not having any set bonus by themselves OR even as a whole with the gear, it makes them almost worthless as well. Trying to drop from a formorian weapon set, to the T2.5 weapons makes you lose on so much weapon damage/Power AND the set bonus its just not even worth considering....
I hope you take these into consideration.
You should delay the leaver penalty.
First, release the Elo Ranking system, and let it run for at least a month or two.
During this time, fix every crash, disconnect, and other issue which can negatively impact the Leaver penalty.
Then, once Elo is established, and the disconnect issues are resolved, you can evaluate a Leaver penalty which would then appropriately be balanced. You may find that after Elo and crash/discon fixes, the leaving issue isn't as bad and a lower penalty or even a different penalty may be more appropriate.
I find most of the tank sets pretty neat and all have strengths and downsides. I'm not convinced the devs should make a GF pvp set with no downside, gods know how much OP this class is in pvp right now (with GWF), but it's up to them.
Well Maybe I didnt lay this out clear enough but it not just that the sets shouldnt have tradeoffs, its that there is a clear "balance" from all the PVE sets that is NOT seen in the PVP counterparts...
The Timeless set lacks deflect, but the set bonus makes that up. The PVP equiv doesnt do that.
The Regents lacks power but the set bonus makes that up. The PVP equiv doesnt do that.
The T2 PVP set has everything you could really ask for (except regen). The 2.5 equiv doesnt do that - replaced deflect.
Sure the Conqueror set lacks defensive stats and as it should! But lacking balance is pretty big...
Sure the Preserver Set SHOULD lack power... but THAT much?!
Sure the Tactician set is more a "balance" approach but it has no deflect now... where as the T2 has it...
I can go into the GWF sets as well and layout why the T2.5 sets are worse than the T2 sets... but thats another issue.
I am merely pointing out the "balance" they put into the PVE sets doesnt exist in the PVP set and the T2 SET > the T2.5 sets...
Basically forcing everyone into <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> spec...
It would be nice to see a real viable upgrade or set in the T2.5 category and also viable weapons... Its not like I am asking for a massive GF buff, just that the same balance should apply to the pvp sets for ALL classes (this issue is present in almost all the classes)... Being able to upgrade from the T2 Idom Grim Set to a T2.5 version really wont do much as far as "strength" in pvp, its really more of a "personal issue" item that the "upgrade" is worse...
So again, I never said no downside to these sets. but actually balancing the sets... because it just looks like they took two random sets from PVE gear, ignored the set bonuses (that were intended to balance the sets out) and threw on it the new PVP set bonuses...
debuffs are not control...
From my opinion you make a huge mistake.
You strafe the guys leaving the pvp domination(not all but some) because you were not able to split
the pvp domination compared to the strongness of the players.
I saw guys with a gearscore of 7.5k in pvp and really hard enemy i think with round about 15-16k
So before you give penalties, you should first split the pvp after gs or something else.
It is your mistake and you try to solve it from the wrong side.
If the pvp is splittet regarding gs and there are always leaver so in this case its
correct to give a penalty and from my opinion your penalty is much too low.
Ok I understand your point.
Now here is my guess: they're giving the most powerful pvp classes sets with downsides, and the weakest pvp classes (like, wizards) good sets with balanced stats. It's their way to address blatant pvp balance issues, instead of nerfing the class, with all the tears and outcry it would bring on the forums, they give subpar gear, which is a lot more acceptable way to "nerf" these too powerful classes. They don't change powers and spells but won't release sets with OMGWTF stats. In other words, they want tanks to either tank or do significant damage in pvp, according to my (admittedly rather limited) understanding of that class. But both? No way.
Of course no dev will ever confirm this, because it would be similar to admitting they *are* nerfing GFs and GWFs in pvp, and it would be quoted until death ensues, but, you know, it does make sense. At least to me. I hope it makes sense for you too.
Now I'd be curious to see what the devs think about clerics and pvp, because there are obviously 3 great sets and 3 lousy ones.
Please fix:
- almost all cleric powers as they don't use armor penetration.
- almost all damaging Campaign-Boons as they don't use armor penetration, especially the Dread Ring ones.
- the dwarfian racial feats Stand Your Ground and Cast Iron Stomach, they don't do anything in PvE and rarely functioning as discribed in PvP.
- If soulforge procs in PVE it usually turns the bonus companion stats off (i.e. cat and stone) till I die and respawn or until I resummon the companion after the fight.
- On soulforge procs PvP and PvE there is 1-1.5 second window where the character is completely paralysed meaning unable to do anything. If you change the duration of the stand-up-animation this can be fixed by that, I guess.
If you need more information on this it can be found in the forums (I guess in every language), via Communitymangers, in the inGame Bug reports, ask the Ticket-Solvers or ask players or test it via protocol-chat-tab or analyse the combat-log and of course you can ask me. A fix of these would make a lot of players happy, imo, as some of these mentioned bugs are in the game for a long time if not since launch.Please fix join pvp queue bug that does not put you in party and forces you to leave the map!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO we don't get penalty because of bug! And please increase leaver penalty to 1 hour.
LAG (this goes for PVE as well, rubberbanding is terrible, fix the netcode with shift+move too, missing 1 packet sends me flying back)
Broken stealth mechanics - When I play rogue, I see people flinging spells across the map at me while I'm stealthed (no lantern could ever see that far), while sometimes I see other rogues -sitting on top of me slapping me with melee-, and I STILL CANT SEE THEM.
Broken reward system - Oh, I get to stay here for 10 minutes for 0 glory cause I have no team? Fantastic... better yet, 20 minute matches only reward the losing team 200 glory, while the winner gets 800? You wonder why people leave games like crazy?
Adding a leaver penalty is good, but only after you fix the above, otherwise you just cause more grief for players.
And of course matchmaking, which you already know about. But yea... seeing 2 gwf + gf + dc vs tr/cw/hr is already a guaranteed loss at equal gs. Since you have 3 tanks camping all 3 points. Why didn't the squishy team get at least 1 tank (or 2 since they have a dc)
I'll tell you right now, there are players (not all) who do leave who are just casual pvpers. ANY time penalty will not discourage them, they can wait it out, it's no big deal to them.
If you want to implement a solution to pvp leavers, then hit them where it hurts. The new items ( relic, pvp items) will require a boat load of glory to acquire. So it stands to reason to give a glory penalty against the leavers. Maybe300 (or more) glory per leave. This way, leavers will think twice on leaving, as it would further slow their glory gain and ultimately reaching enough glory in order to gain the items wanted.
What he said, hope you devs thought of that the above.
Why not fix the issues with PvP first, then implement any penalties that may follow.
But thats what im saying is they already HAVE the set... Its the PVP T2 Grim set... Its better than all the T2.5 sets... why?
Also if that were the case, they would fix ARP not working with most of CWs spells... I mean one of their sets is ARP focused but CWs dont even get the benefit from the stat... So why is it there?
All I am saying is the sets for classes seem to be not well balanced, stats were arrived at and then balanced around set bonuses.. If you take away a set bonus it makes the set imbalanced...
The sets were already "tradeoffs" on PVE setup, but with the PVP setup there is no "trade off" the sets just are not good compared to the ONE t2 set.
I tried many combinations with all the sets and literally BY FAR the T2 set is stronger than any other set. All I am asking is for a true tradeoff on the sets... Not just a hands down 1 is better and that 1 happends to be T2 as well...
Same goes for GWF, T2 setup is much stronger than T2.5. Same for TR, same for CW actually as well...
Heim is absolutely correct,the new sets are GARBAGE on stat allocation.
As a PvP TR, they are robbing me of the stats I NEEDED to even HOPE to do DAMAGE with the new tenacity.
And with the new set allocation Given for TR..
No armor pen + crit combo's
No HP bonus on any of the T2.5 Sets? Like what the hell? your forcing all TRs to TRY and get damage by rolling complete glass cannon to get some damage. I say try, because even if you role complete glass cannon, you still couldn't hit a viable DPS mark, while having no survivability
Tenacity was one thing, 33% nerf to impact shot damage... on top of tenacity patch, that's a bit insulting
These new TR ""PvP"" (Lol okay.) Sets? That's blatant gimping. Healing depression affecting DC's and making their class useless, Down right stupidity, And with CONTROL Wizards, not being able to CONTROL anymore, whats the point of pvping in this game at all? This makes me wonder if the Developers even pay attention to our Top Tier PvP community.
Because the top community never asked for tenacity. we maybe hinted at a SLIGHT regen nerf, and a MODERATE nerf to gwf damage. BUT most of all we wanted an ELO system, New Maps, and New game types.
Truly bothers me, when I Join a random pug match, and watch how uneducated, and unskilled these players are at the game. This bothers me because the developers are listening to the whines of these people to determine how we play the game.
Brutal Stalker was Perfection for a new T2.5 TR upgrade
the sets they've replaced them with... Im debating wether or not I want to keep my pve skulker set, or if I even want to continue playing the game based on the TERRIBLE hand thats been dealt to DC's and CW's alike
Without any doubt we can all agree on this: BUILD VARIETY ARE LIMITED TO 3 PER CLASS
The most simple salution to this is if they include the Main-hand , Off-hand in the 4/4 piece set bonus.
This from itself with allow much wider gear a-location possibilities which with satisfy the majority of PvP'ers
As for now the main/off hand weapons are never used by players who pvp and i really dont think someone will bother using them since they do not give u any beneficial stats except for tenacity ( which above 1000 seems a waste ).
So here is the greater use of them > Make them included in the set bonus and ta daaa > many happy players
We found the cause of this and have a fix going into a build probably tomorrow.
Agree on that, in general. Personally, i'd like to see some build variety for CWs. Now people just seems to be stuck with thaumaturge-meatball spamming. For a good bunch of reasons, ofc: 15-20k crits, long prone duration (which blocks target's ability to deflect and use CC-imunity mechanics) and on top of that it's one of the few spells, affected by arpen. Toogud.
Nerfing prone ALONE would be already more than enough to force wizards into mentioned variety, while fixing arpen would instead encourage us into it. But tenacity in its current state is just a bit over the edge.
My videos
I still think either the set bonuses or the stats on the Profound gear should change:
1) Conqueror 2pc should be deflect (like Timeless)
2) Presever 2pc should be power (about half the benefit of the PVE Regents 4pc bonus)
3) Tactician 2pc can stay defense, but change recovery back to deflect like the T2 set has.
This brings alot of balance to the sets and makes all of them frankly quite appealing without making either of them too "OP". This type of thing can EASILY be done for all the classes sets...
Then adding in weapons to all the 4/4 set bonuses allows you to run a 4/4 AND a 2/4 if you prefer, really min/maxing stats for those that want to. I know when you guys all first rolled out the PVP set on the PTR it really had nice stats and with weapons in on the set bonus, really helped itemization..